Welcome to the Commentary Magazine Daily podcast today, Ruddy July, sixteen twenty twenty one eye Dunbar towards the editor of commentary. Christine Rosen is out today with us in her stead, Washington commentary columnist, fellow at the American enterprises Suit Founding Father of the in three big Matthew got many high Matt hygiene thanks for having also as ever, executive editor, a green waldheim, Abe haha, souci had editor no Rossman high Noah, I John he guesswork guys communism, bad communism is for a bad. We finally have a car

of consensus in the United States once again, That communism is bad. It took about four days after the protests arose and key. On Monday, the United States criticized the quote: authoritarian, unquote regime in Cuba. That was both at that You know that was a deliberate choice by the administration, because everybody use the word authoritarian from Joe Biden to his spokesmen. So there was some kind of pre first decision to characterize it that way, and then I guess after three days and people saying you know, maybe we don't want to be completely Dublin. aided in Florida for the next generation Biden yesterday came out and know what did he wanted? He actually say in his third or fourth go round. that Cuba issue. He said a couple of things and their good, I mean they're unequivocally good. We should be

using these statements as agonizing as the interval between this protest erupt. It in and Joe Biden actually saying the consensus view around communism was You know it's it's nice to see. If there's nobody will benefit. The people who need to here are not listening to us, but what he said was a fallen quoth communism has failed system. A universe We failed system, and I don't see socialism is a very useful substitute, but that's another story. It wasn't another story. He went decided when considering whether to have the attack, whether we have the technological ability to reinstate access to communications platforms like the internet, good for him and the people who really to hear this message are in his. coalition. So it's not a risk. Free proposition says something like us as as horrible as that sentences to say it's the truth. There are communists in his coalition Finally, anyway, I'm- and we know that, because he hears it's interesting, Christine talked about this yesterday we said: hey where's, that likewise in the squad, talked where the leftist left has seen silent and

Bernie Sanders in Alexandria, because it reads has both issued statements which which drew a complete parallel between the terrible things that the regime on the problem of a suppression of freedom on the ground and cool I am the terrible consequences of the american embargo, and I think I Tom Bevin, of real, clear politics, counted them in and of causes. Cortez a statement. There were forty four herds condemning a Cuba and fifty nine words can. I mean the United States so mad. What are you? What are you make that, while they are these centres and cause you quarters,

It means were moderate in comparison to the statements put out by black lives matter and de essay democratic Socialists in America, which are totally just blaming the United States and in saying at the basically defending in many ways the cuban regime so book there's gradations. I think when I look at the administrations. A response from the past week it started off. Basically, as abominably ducks, we were back in your vomit administration. It was dead, though I was struck by the way in which it Saki sounded almost exactly like her old self, when she was the State Department spokeswoman. and if the Obama emphasis on you know, what's with

really matter with the nature of a regime is as long as they give their subjects dignity you know and provide them access to fresh water. You know puddles and stuff like that. Now, by the end of the week, I think it's much more of a bite in foreign policy now, at least in at least in the rhetoric. Is there saying that the system is bad this rightfully so? under the he's now looking into steps to maybe assisting the protesters he's not where I'd like to like him to be, obviously, nor is he, where the merit Miami b, which like this, you don't. He has an answer colleague very later: airstrikes airs heirs to air strikes at the ground, evasive and eventually got engaged on the ground ready. I like the kind of jet, but their lot fastening watched by demonstration here, because he's also

clearly concerned about the potential immigration follow, right. I mean not only not only from Cuba, which is used, the immigration weapon in the past but now he also has this situation in Haiti and other by immigration illegal immigration and he had been rising before the assassination unequal attempts up. I think so far he stood up now. A passable job he's distinguishing himself from his democratic predecessor, which for me, is the most important thing, but he could always do more Abe. I was struck by by by one thing about what I was her think of as occurred liberal gas.

fighting, but I don't think it's really aimed at at at us exactly it sort of like a self gas lighting. I was reminded of twenty twelve and the attack in Benghazi and Obama's bizarre instead kill and refusal to say that this was an attack on the United States by islamic terrorism. I mean this went on for days. It was very strange, but in It seemed glad will, in this sense- and I have to somewhat disagree with mad in that even buttons, coming around to condemning to naming communism as as as as the problem is still actually very much like the previous democratic press, because Obama did

after Pherson refusing to say that, because it was terrorism, come round and say was terrorism also starting in the worst possible place, then coming around saying something slightly more reasonable. He's still not unlike Obama. It's not it's, not it's not that hard, and yet you can even make the cases a little worse, because if a bomb subjective and twenty twelve was to maintain the narrative that The war on terror was essentially over and that kind of was on the run and the scene of their. We can de escalate the the global war on terror. That was a political can, a political consideration, taking into account the whole of the United States, the whole of the electorate, whereas bindings consideration was just to taken account the Swat basically in love with his on twitter. Ok, just before even more parochial, I mean the question is: what were what we might take away from

it's about the condition of the United States not to be too to one to grandiose. But one of the reasons that what about? What did in September of twenty twelve seemed so strange was that To me and to other people who, I would say, we're not on the further on the far right of of the republican coalition, that Obama saying terrorist struck us em in Libya. We will not rest until we get them. You know America's the greatest em We will not allow this to happen toward diplomats em down. You know we will crush them and just as we will not let this happen, there was like a gimme who could object to such a thing. Now I understand that the interrupted the you know I'll Qaeda's. Dare you know you know.

the bid Laden's dad in gentleman s alive line right. But having said that, I never understood. I just didn't understand what. Why was? They didn't see. This were were or jump on it and similarly its curious this to me that a gimme which is like there's an uprising, ninety miles off our short, a communist regime. We now They haven't had a new car since one thousand nine hundred and sixty one and and- and you can say, look at these people fighting for their freedom. Isn't this great? We support them and they don't want to see it initially there, this, is not to say at what they know about their own coalition and maybe about the United. Dates that we are now in such a place that we can even taken easy lap for democracy.

While they were again is that your grandmother ensuring it says a lot, I think more about the bite in administration and it does America, and I mean it, but when a presidential administration encounters a crisis, it takes time to me What's going on these things, I made there is a build and if you ve been watching actually whatever the scattered news we get from Cuba less couple years, there have been some kind of a thought. You know they ve been more artists. There is an artist movement there in Greece, whatever the case they clearly were taken by. prize,

The fight against widespread marches protest right, so any administration when they encounter this they're gonna. It's gonna take them time to figure out what the messages their first instinct right with the simply to revert to the Obama Detente policy that he struck with Cuba at the end of his administration and say well what we do know that the people are marching for the rights, but we need. makes you make sure that the cuban government fulfils its obligations in less than a week later there now and saying this regime is corrupt and dad, and I actually think that more responsive to positive elements within a man. Yeah exactly they please read. The right rages all understand that people want to people in America actually like I am on the side of the of the Freedom Freedom fighters so to speak either in Cuba, but I dont know adjusted going back to slightly

I mean the for me. The analogy. Isn't too bagasse, which was a terrorist attack on us, and I am obviously spoke to Obama's weird the oligarchy. That analogy is to the to the Green Movement movement in IRAN in, but which also happen in the first summer of the other of a democratic administration, and I think I have to say you know- maybe I'm just I'm grown softer my old age or my middle age now, but a bite in response to this has been much better than abominable once too to the Green Revolution in IRAN. I there's nothing is clear about it. Just you know about it. Just do not want to deal with bombers. Instinct was always that you know what the regimes are there because of american spot right and self again about the people who live under these regimes. If really our fault, the regime so I'm not gonna get involved because at the end of the day, we are the reason that the mullahs,

in IRAN and the communists are in Cuba, and so we get involved just gonna make things worse in Comparison Biden. From his own old democrat instincts? Liberal, all liberal international muscles, if I say they want freedom, they should have it, and you know what I am maybe I'm. Judging off a low bar button is good enough for me: No I've rider and road. Your political stakes here, almost none, where a lower lotta geopolitical stakes involved and ran down from responses, I can't even about response to the uprisings in known in Venezuela, twenty fourteen twenty fifty in this this one's gimme there's you would give you could we could really. The intervening here and much more material way not boots on the ground, not extra, excluding airstrip,

but taking ownership? Materially of these protests, with very little downside in my, in my limited view of ok. Well, there is a death there. There is. There is a potential downside of this is a deeper and more tragic reference to history, but there were real consequences in nineteen, fifty six and ninety six The eight hour behind the iron curtain when there were uprisings and revolts and real hopes that the United States would somehow vain and help the Hungarians generally, nineteen, fifty six and then the tanks rolled in and and was in other, were mass arrests and there was a lot of killing and all of that, an american diplomats who lived through that got nervous about being kind of cavalier

about saying things that might be heard, as the cavalry is coming. We're we're gonna come to help you and a lot of at its muscle memory. Now, where were you not we're sixty years away from that? Sixty five years away from that and the world has changed entirely, but if you will now the origins of the inner we better be a little cautious about these populist uprisings in countries that have governments that are willing to be violent. cause there could be a lot of bloodshed and we could somehow inadvertently lead to more people. Then killed than we ever out met because, of course we never will put puts on the ground and yet a lively and that number that's all I'm all I'm saying is that there is a sort of you no job before we just jump in. There is a there is an american history of of not appreciating our own strength like

that a little word from the United States can convince people that we are. You know that that we're gonna we're gonna play a big role in their in their liberation and then terrible things happen that we we we can intervene before: that's it, that's all I'm! That's all! I'm saying it. That's the logic that that every single time this happens just I just recently brought peace on this about Venezuela about arranged. Doesn't then that around twenty eighteen about Hong Kong, twenty twenty nineteen the same logic, everybody said smart, sophisticated set, look at the United States gets too involved in this. We're gonna be responsible for whatever happens next, knowing not only that we are there. There's a worse argument that obtained a lot during during the iranian situation, which is If we are seen to be on the side of the protesters, you see that that will sort of effective

conceptually americanized there there their fight, and therefore the regime will crack down war on we are, we will be harming them just by virtue of our lending. Our rhetorical support, just by just by being seen to be on their side right, which which This is very convenient when you don't wanna, actually stick your neck out, you could say: well, you know we can't do this because we're gonna we are going to somehow de legitimize the the innate natural untried they weren't. You know like that that it that it had spontaneous Uprisen within the country and that it wasn't you know, generated by the CIA or something like that banning of Attica yeah. That said, I mean the thing, of course, that when you know, when your right to say that there is no geopolitical,

asked, I mean in IRAN in two thousand, I what we know now and what we serve knew then, is that Obama had ambitions had large geostrategic ambitions in relation to the United States in IRAN that this uprising interfered with and he didn't want it, because he had a grand design and his head. There is no grand design with Cuba right, that's why the cost is so low and that and that that we can do a little bit here and there could make a very big difference. Also we don't know about the house table this regime. It lets say we assume the regime is stable, has no one's gonna overtook, but The Castro's are gone. There's this kind of no nothing functionary who is now we're getting no name functionary who was now the dictator of Cuba. no way thing about him. We often think, under these circumstances, that you know

the guy who came in as weak, and it turns out he's not gonna like above by when Bashar Al Assad took over from his father's. Like always optometrist, we were, then it turns out that he was more savage than his father. What and then no one would say that Nicholas Neurosurgeon now is particularly vulnerable, right now is an exciting, though we talk about than his way, but because I think it's a cautionary example. Here I mean a we know personally, in some cases of the individuals were tried, were involved in any attempt to push Madeira out and installed. The legitimately elected president have been as well a long white up and that failed fail for a combination of reasons of from presidential and attention and actually distrust of guidance, because, if courting to John Bolton's memoir trumped didn't like the fact that quite a wife didn't wear her wedding ring in the trunk apparently suggested Guido was weak and therefore not

worth his support in that kind of lead to trumps, forgetting about the statements he had made in support of democracy in Venezuela. Are there other reasons the Russians kind of took the carpet from under our feet. Right at the very moment when we could have had regime change and then as well as the one. You know one other aspect of that fight of Venezuela was the involvement of the cuban military intelligence services, as it were that, and that is always been in the back of my head to suggest the regime is in Cuba is actually more resilient than we give credit for, and so you know, I think that that is an argument for more action on the part of the binding administration. To couple it's pretty pretty good rhetoric so far.

but I mean again the interesting thing about Venezuela is, we didn't you know, it's Guido was not installed and Maduro place I think the United States did itself discredit in what it did in relation to Venezuela would have been worse. Had we just said, look, there's. No We can do there's none at another time, and that is what happened in twenty fourteen. What brought about number of everyone's, whereby sunrise gonna uniting their twenty forty right when these windows Obama we're talking about what we're we're talking attacks, but this was, it was already gently. It was too late and twenty fifteen the first thing that United States didn't responds to the venezuelan uprisings was really a Congress ethically Congress did. The Congress has something in December, twenty fourteen and then, in March of twenty fifty brought about unemployment imposed sanctions on the venezuelan regime law after the iron, was already cool, but

about the bright young movements when the moment is upon you right, but in this case there was this potential moment at which Maduro could have you. No. Basically, there were rival governance, their arrival governments, the plane was on the tarmac hung upon it in an edit and very specifically, I mean we we had to choose which government we were going to recognise our support and we chose the right one and you don't know what the long term is something I said earlier this week what the long term benefits of american support might be. There was in this case Cuba might not. You know the uprising here might not enlarge,

they go about, six it whatever that. Whatever, however, he wanted delineate success, you know we are unlikely to see the government fall and a new government take its place that you know. That represents a democracy representative, but we don't know what five years or seven years years from now can happen and what kinds of actions and at what kind of optimism look really to Cuba. You know there are a million. There are like millions of Cubans or have you something living in the United States. Who are you know who are connected to Cuba, but its course. It's been sixty years since my little forty years since the moral but lift it's been six sixty years since the revolution- and you know it fake if they have their consciousness, is raised again and there are these increasing points of contact between the outside world in Cuba. Who knows what can be brought in? Who knows what kinds of

documents books brought an brought in in Spanish, carried in by tourists and stuff like that to help people come up with things and come up with policies now like add some version of of Vienna. What what blood dimmer Bukovsky and others in the nineteen seventeen to push use the soviet regimes own code of law against it things the Cubans, not have any idea about and that they can be influenced by and if we, if they, if they have a more optimistic sense of their own futures and the possibilities, the dissidents can cause no nineteen. Eighty, you know solidarity, which was crushed and then nine years later, the Berlin Wall fell in a limited city. History doesn't,

follow a straight line in and you dont know what, for example, its take Tienanmen square like as as an exact, so Tienanmen Square happened. We didn't know what to do. We behaved somewhat Craven Lee. Let's say was that good? I mean you know it was that so is so China than grew economically in this fantastic way, but that but the model for China's authority terrorism was hardened in a way that may be had. We been more circumspect about China as a result of Tiananmen Square and said Molly and done more to support the idea that the chinese people have a right to be free. Just like everybody else on the planet. Who knows what the political consequences would be in the coup in the course of that incredible tumult in ferment of the of the of the of the years before

fifteen Wednesday basically decided to re totalitarian eyes, China. You know I'm just picking up off of that. This is a case in Cuba, where the fact that we had no economic entanglements does for your hands quite technical making? Hence there is no business lobby like there is every reason. China, always Oh, you can't do that you're going to alienate our market opportunities in such because, because it the embargo. We are firmly on the side of democracy in Cuba, and we have we can. We can do quite a bit leading to my second point, which is the x factor here. Is social media is fastened? to read all the accounts. The regime made a mistake from its point of view in the grand strategy of despotism. It made a mistake couple years ago to allow social media to the cuban people, because as we as we ve, seen beginning with the arab spring into a decade ago,

once populations have access to social media. The clock begins ticking for authority areas and there's no question about it, and so what is the first thing that give the Cubans government does shuts down the internet? You can't talk and because talking equals, networking equals protein. Equals threat right. So this is this is why I think it's not just enough forbidden to say you have to well we're gonna look into it Mahina. He has to do it. This is the new Samas dot is access to social media. I mean what's interesting: What we get we really know what's going on there, but ideas the president actually called for thee the activation of the neighborhood Block Committee system in Cuba. The country, you know in some kind of like totalitarian nightmare. is organised by block puts it, you know, obviously not in Europe.

Very rural areas, not that there are that many like entirely rural areas, but but there our committees on every block, there's like there's like up you know Commissar for every block and an end of it, you know communist party members on every block who serve function as the block committee and de I said everybody go out in the streets and shut these people down, and it appears that it didn't happen. I mean that that that's the that's where you also say it's not just that social media, of course creates a whole new sense of connection and community or can where you are you get us that there are people, thirty five blocks away from you? Who have the same ideas? It you do an and if they didn't come out, you know that suggests or presents an opportunity, a larger political opportunity them they might have thought otherwise, because he has no. We don't really know Russia. We don't know. What's going on Cuba, because, as you said, it communications networks are shut down

the government is showing signs of being caught becoming a little unstuck there and making concessions yesterday, among them that they were lifting restrictions and the terrorists and sanctions on the importation of food and medicine, individual travellers who go the country food and medicine they they're not gonna, be subject to the kind of tariffs that thing ormolu would be to bring that sort of stuff into the country which, by the way, completely undermines the rose, twitter brigades caught a contention that the? U S, sanction somehow affects the importation of food and medicine into the country they dont and never have, and yet near the Panama Eric PAN American view from countries that have semi socialist governments. Like Mexico were saying that the only way for us to to approach this crisis is to essential

now is the time to ward the regime for its behaviour wishes and make a whole lot of sense to me by their behaviour. The behaviour of an inventor does suggest that this is having an effect and is a significant effect on the stability of the region. And it would be the time to take advantage of its after several of its ironic mats point about social media in Cuba in Cuba, because if you look at the effect of social media in the U S in regard to this, it seems too had these sort of opposite effect and that I think, is largely responsible for why there was a delay in the president condemning communism for what it is its aids. If it's it's, it's such a big mouthpiece for supersonic, Lou Democratic, the stars were in fact, members of the UN don't cry. Socialist Party, like a yo, see

such social media in a sort of works to kind of amplify support for bad ideas and and authoritarianism and socialism. Here it is uniquely disruptive and social media has disrupted the american regime the same way that its disrupting every other regime and whether in the form of Donald Trump or whether, in the form of be a lamb and the iconoclasm revolutionary impasse that we have encountered in west a year all driven eyes, you say through social meeting ounces technology, its value neutral and that can be used to bring down tyrannical garden then you can also Britain be used. It threaten a constitutional democracy such as our own. Ok, it's I don't think. That's the only way to look at this one way of looking at this is that they prefer it presents this Classic commentary magazine pack has terminology use, Platos Cave effect, where you have the floor,

error of the shadows that are created by social media that outweigh the actual hard political realities in the United States which are like? Are we really giving up Florida? Are we Democrats giving up the third? The fourth? A third of the fourth largest state in the in the United States in perpetuity. Now, because we are not going to say the right, things about this, because we are afraid that someone is gonna, tweet hostile, let us like millions of voters versus a tweet, that's that's how powerful social media effect can be, and you it takes like three days were. Somebody said we are you crazy? you're sleeping the sunshine state to the Republicans forget that we take them off the people. Can you re another decade? All of social media for that because the Obama administration had that same assumption, but it was predicated on pull data.

now they will be aiming or assuming that everybody had income in Cuba. In Florida, the cuban Expec community, particularly young people, have moved on from the issue. Just didn't get here about. Ok, they, but the Obama administration had innocence on their side. They didn't have the results of twenty. Sixteen twenty eighteen and twenty. Twenty, as as the new political reality Florida about one Florida twice, so he thought Kay well. This is all moving on. Cuba is no longer a third rail issue for Democrats and we, can liberalized and all of that, and then Trump winds and South Florida and no end de Santas, wins in twenty eighteen and then floor dismissal. He put away in twenty twenty and those those congressional districts where but were screaming and yelling about democratic liberalism, killing them in you know in South Florida,

Those are all the political realities. That Biden and the Democrats face now Anne, and so at least, I think Obama had some information on his side to support the idea that he had a freer hand to do what wanted to do in Cuba, but Democrats have no excuse again if they want to ok, it's lost and that they seem to be very willing, oddly, politically not serve shift. The whole conversation about They seem to be oddly willing to say, awry. Florid is gone and Ohio God really we want to say Florida and Ohio were gone. I mean you just you won them twice relatively recently, like why're, you seeding these states because of your. It is illogical base like driving you further to the without further to the left, then you should be going like. comport with political reality. You know I've been there. Like a very left wing sent her in Ohio.

I dont understand this is what I'm saying like there's that this is the weird effective social media that that the one had you have tens of billions of voters and, on the other hand you have tweets and and in enough for a lot of people, the tweets outweigh the tens of millions of voters. We need to get back and with that, let me talk to you about our first advertiser today made in. If you are serious about cooking, you should invest in your kitchen tools, maidens cook wearing kitchen, where products are used by thousands of the world's best chefs. Look if quality and craftsmanship is important to use

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its Emma D, I and seal ok W way, are a dot com, slashed commentary and use promo code commentary for fifteen percent off your first order. That's maiden cook, where last dotcom slashed commentary use promo code commentary LOS Angeles county. The largest country in the United States announces that Even the vaccinated now must mask Indoors Matt. On our video here you are shaking your head and you are shaping, examines rolling out my guest and flag. John I'm going to March in the street Now I was in California last week, I was not enough time in excellent choice,

I was not at all I counted, except for brief way over an election. Unless, when I heard this news yesterday, I began becoming apoplectic. Today I looked up the deaths in LOS Angeles County from covert yesterday LOS Angeles, Canada's ten million people- nine died of covert yesterday, and yet they are the mandating effective Saturday. Everyone where a mask indoors, regardless of backs nation status. This is not only going to not work as a policy, but it is such an affront, I think, to all of the people who got backs and ate it. Annie and then now that you're, on the understanding that one,

immunize is you from the virus to that's the way to get out of having to wear masks. Finally, last night I happened. I rarely watch cable news, but for whatever reason the television happened to be turned on to see an end where I watched Doktor Leanna when tell Anderson Cooper that what we can't we we lifted all the restrictions way too soon. She says right this pretty direct quote: people thought that they could do However, they want once they got back needed that there would no longer be any controls while they were wrong and I'm I'm upon to write an angry letter to doktor when to tell her. she could not see, has no control over back contradictory and chicken carefully Spock gas that that will be with us today about a doctor

follow doktor. When you try to just a thread this conversation with them, We talk about misreading the room. Talk about over interpreting what the sentiment Failing sentiment on Twitter is or Facebook or social media generally I dont I've never encountered a pull that suggested that people best even in California that people think that masking once you're vaccinated is a good idea. I mean there are some people who are very concerned about their environments and they talk but the incessant about it. They will not shut up about how concerned they are about their lives and then in your life and everybody else in it. The risk, as is over access to excessive, but from the perspective of the small business owners and the people who patronize those businesses and when the masking regime was extended in April and may, even though the vaccinate vaccination where it was pretty new highly so traded in this community. There was a lot of frustration with it to the point that it led was one

the primary reasons why we have a recall election in California. There was a political backlash and the notion that there won't be any and, as a result of this excessive measure with people too, in such disgustingly draconian terms as as doktor, when I can imagine that there won't be it even that, unlike some sort of like we don't want to give Republicans any ammunition here, but nevertheless there will be some sort of political backlash associated with us. I think this is a disaster for another reason it you know in a way that no move yet has been so disastrous up to this point, especially if this is copied in other states moving forward, saying at this point that you have to mask up. Even if your accelerated is saying, there's no getting out of this ever this. Is it needed the vaccine. We had the vaccine

we had the lock down. We live the latter's baby. That's it with this. Is that there is. There is no light at the end of the tunnel you're in the tunnel. We live in the tunnel for the foreseeable future. It's over. That is a terrible, terrible family, not not only for our psychologists but for the growth of business community, all the rest, but everything that the? U S needs to to do at this moment is going to be hampered by boat. By that kind of thing, I don't just be mass civil disobedience. I mean it it's in a week. We thought we got through the worst of the social disruptions, recalled that you see the headlines about the open, my death spiking. We basically ruined the education's of tens of millions of school age. Children, ok will now. Now it's coming down were vaccinated. Death death aren't not increasing and bring the death the deaths of the people, who did not get the vaccine

the aim is masking mandates are, are socially self reinforcing, there's no police force out their patrol the streets looking out the citizen, I so who's gonna be masking the vaccinated. Ok, we'll be disobeying. This are the people who need to be observing delegation. Mitigating measures also madman should obtain the gas and flag. I may let let's, let's it's not civil disobedience to disobey and illegitimate emergency order right. This is not. Legislation did not show through two houses of the California state Legislature was signed by the governor. It is a declaration by the L. A county health department, which somehow finds itself in empowered in a way that it should no longer be on time. It should be noted, goes against both CDC, an Newsome Wright Brothers, it's just this county deciding this happens to be one of the largest counties in the country. If not the largest

three large ass tenderly argue for me right now, so back but the and the talk that authoritarianism I managed to me it's just that it's a gasp inducing that they were just mandate this hour or suggested exactly what is the force of law? I'm wondering? Oh, I haven't. I don't know whether they ve been legal challenges to this sort of policy, because we have an ever been in a state where you have that's unaided versus on vaccination and should it you know, should the requirement apply to people who did there due diligence and got back sue, I don't know, but I would expect there and I hope there are legal challenges to this I mean it's. There's a timing problem there. There have been cases in various states and stuff challenging the constitutional regions save emergency regime orders and and of course, the whole thing about emergency measures, as they are supposed to be temporary and they're supposed to be time limited and you

even Andrew Cuomo when he got in trouble because of his sexual suppose, sexual peccadilloes or where Miss behaviors sought desperately. Change the subject by almost unilaterally or or that I mean that the the state legislature remove It is emergency powers and he signed the bill like he like. He also knew he needed till led out this guy, who is zero entire political life was was revolutionized by him in a ruling by fear in New York state. Had this moment of you know coming to Jesus where he He said. Ok, I don't really want to have this power anymore, so you can yell at me about it, and I made a new some interesting enough is an interesting position here, because, as you say that this goes against California State stuff, he is

facing a recall that he's gonna win, he's not gonna he's not gonna be recalled, but time and again, maybe this is a gimme for him like white. Why doesn't he go and say: hey, Barbara forever? You know you a person with a phd in communicate somehow ended up as the public health official of of of L, a county you're, not a doctor, you're just allowed mouth, you know, woke feminist, you know, consultant type walks around talking about how to help show about affirmative action and stuff like that, and somehow get yourself into this position, you have no right or authority to do what you're. What you're doing here I mean you know, he's not going to say what I just said, but I mean that would be the implicit understanding which is going back into your little cubby and go back into your office and close the door

big, you know this is taught this you're playing way above your out. Your your region way above your station, here I mean that, wouldn't I set against his own political instincts because winds quotas, protein pretty illustrative, I think, of a line of thought on the left which framed this in terms of control more than in terms public health control with eradicate the virus and that's where they go wrong. They think that this virus will be eradicated. It will not Even in Asia, where, in the countries that we at the outset of the pandemic, the careers of Japan the Japan or if they are, they are doing a pretty good job. It's back its raging. The only way out for most people is to get the vaccine and, as has been put at currently on this podcast many a time in recent weeks? If you don't get the vaccine, then it's on you, it's not my problem. It should not be my problem and I should not have to wear masks

and who were tickled. The angle there that you just said that that this development objective here is to render this just another corona, no one, no one because were governed by the liberals. Yet at the moment who are at the who are just within their whole perspective, is somehow we're going to just vanquish. Corona virus covered nineteen like we vanquish, measles. We vanquish polio, and that's just I do not believe that is possible and contemporary american society world society, but I mean there are two ways to vanquish: the corona virus, I mean there are. There are ways to vanquish it in some fundamental sense. You get people vaccinated and then everybody else gets, and so one way or another take longer either whither you either you either get you either don't get it or you get it and at some point between now and next year, if the

Vaccination rate remains, you know below. Seventy percent almost everybody was in vaccinated and who is over the age of eighteen cause. That's another important aspect here: not everybody at the age of eighteen is gonna get the corona virus, but of course that they also then play this game which, as they move the football right, they they move or they move the goalposts where the say the danger, isn't the delta, very it. It's the gamma, very rare, the Lamb, the very it's what it's? What this will mutate Into a highly dangerous delta variant, job right but bright exactly, but I mean that that we're not at risk from the they're all the data save your vaccinated you're, not at risk from it, if you'd get it and if it should break through you'll, get it incredibly mild Kay peace that is as bad as it just an ordinary flew if it breaks through no one. Ninety nine point: four percent of the deaths from the corona from

the Delta variant are among the on vaccinated, which is effectively like saying a hundred percent point. Six percent in a you know, in a in Vienna in it I am do you know what latitudinal thing is is to say zero, and so not going to die from it and you're not gonna get Hoddan hospitalized from it. So then, why do we have to do what they're going to do in L a county because of what might happen to the delta variant as it exists, and then it mutates into something even or dangerous, and then that will destroy the the the virus but are we actually gonna make public policy based on a

theory of the of of mutation, that by the way we have no idea whether, as is the case, the delta Varied, is both more contagious and less deadly then covered nineteen right. So it's a weird thing, because it's a thought, you get a thousand times more viral load in your body, but it doesn't kill you, so it doesn't seem to kill other people or hardly at all. I don't even think that r L, a county friend there whose imposing struck on you it is even thinking of it in the same way that you are, which is the more sophisticated the Atlantic, the Ed young piece. You know. This is why we have to worry about the delta variant is because of the gamma or you know, the later epsilon sly added the later greek alphabet, the they're just being punitive is it the illnesses held them rose? I think I really just completely misreading how to talk to people, which is a big problem.

There's you act as if they ve done suffer the course of the last sixty years, they're saying you're, not getting that we don't have enough people getting vaccinated. How are we going? back. Then it man dating at every one where the mast again, and that way there would be no excuse right and you're gonna, just you're gonna have to get back to it at that point or that the Biden comment about the door to door thing which I think was kind of blown up, abortion is the same wake. Its deliberate mentality is, if some, it's not doing what we want. All we have to do is like ground by the shoulders and yell at them. And finally, Finally, they'll: listen to reason, that's not help. People behave, it's not at some point. You're just going to have to say it's an individual decision. You should get the vaccine. If you don't get the vaccine, you're gonna have to shoulder the risk, and that idea of personal agency and personal risk is something that just allows the liberal mind they have a very hard

I do have understanding, but that look let's go into this- is that this is. This is the ultimate conundrum. The punishment here is for the people who been vaccinated. The punishment is put your mask on. You did what you were supposed to do. You ve done what you have done. The right thing for yourself for your family and for your country put the Basque back on buddy, because the irresponsible people over here, it's like it's like some form of collective punishment and the weird part about it is. I thought these liberals think that all the Trump voters are. You know a guy who's who live in fly over a stand, and you know are not enough. We need to like separate ourselves from them because their so evil. So why aren't they effectively saying to themselves? Let them all die? I mean, I know this is a weird way to put it cause. It sounds awful, but I mean. Effectively. They hate those people so

their mandating that they put their own masks on because they want to pressure those p want to getting the battles populations not getting vaccinated. That's recently came across a headline. This weakness really struck me with something it out. I think thirty to forty percent of the migrants apprehended at the border are refusing the boxing. Ok, Well, you know from set for my border hawkish a point of view, Maybe that's the reason not to let them into the You know it's like their offered. Vaccine for their release and thirty to forty percent are denying it end up. Ok, go ahead, so it's not just that it's not just the trunk voter than that liberals, might wanna be read out its other significant populations within their own coalition that that are denying the back, but I don't even think I not even sure it's liberals wanting to punish trump voters here. I think its public health officials wanting to punish the

free for not listening to them. There is definitely there's also any answer that I haven't. I might apply to touch on what John was saying: other is sort of a strain and it ought not to get to philosophically or but there is sort of a strain of thought on the left, which is for a progressive left, which is congregational list, in so far as collective suffering must be evenly unequally endured and that sort of combats a malaise. Otherwise you know you haven't, does this equilibrium in society, particularly when there is any suffering even its unevenly endoored. Then it we're all world contributing to a social reality oh that yeah everybody needs to suffer because that's how you, chief salvation. I know that's an interesting way to put it, but the other way of looking at it is the sort of collective punishment method in basic training.

something like that right. Somebody does something, and the whole point is to make the entire. You know the entire platoon suffer so that the person who is responsible for the failure, or something like that understands that everything that he does or she does has an effect on everybody else and that there needs to be a kind of internal self discipline where you're gonna get it from your fellow people. If you don't do the right thing and it doesn't even matter if you do the right thing, even if you're gonna get punished

all that, but they don't have any sway over the those were not getting vaccinated. I mean that's. The part of the problem here is like it's not going to there's no trump voter in Mississippi who was going to get who's going to get back sedated, because people are putting masks on in LA county. I mean that's, and I I take your point. It's like this is what we can do to stop the virus on Barbara Ferrer, I'm the La Hill County Health, commissioner. Everyone put their masks on right, that's what we're going to do, but that is actually not going to Greece, the vaccination rate one iota one bit because everybody was not vaccinate- is already gotten the message they're supposed to keep their masks on. They do or they die we don't know, we have no idea who they or whether or not there there vaccinated we are protected from them for vaccinated. That's what we know: we're not they get covered from. That's great line will put. The punishment will continue until morale improves.

Entelechy. Never here so I mean. Maybe if we lived in, you know if we lived in Athens the fifth century BC. This system would work, but it we live in a country of three hundred and thirty million people, and it's not a it's not going to work and be as also morally despicable, but we actually get to that after. I talk to about underwear because it's time to talk about underwear, yes, APOLLO, Tommy, Johns, newest and most advancements underwear with that performance. Driverless fabric brand blend the latest comfort innovation from Time John, you can't get anywhere else. It's proven to keep you drier and, after seven degrees, cooler than regular cotton. Underwear soft supportive stretches for the perfect fit everyday available after size for excel with fifty million parasol men across Amerika love TAT. We don T, there's no more flopping sticking your chafing and, like all Tommy

where APOLLO comes at the best burial everywhere or its free guarantee. That's why Tommy John doesn't have customers. It has fanatics right now get twenty percent off your first order I'm John. That comes less commentary, got Atomic John Dotcom, Slash commentary for twenty percent off Tommy John DOT com. Slashed commentary see site for details. So let's go move on to this major point, which is aside from the Gadsden flag, you know which, of course, you know existed at the very beginning of this republic. was why rents all by God, someone at the January sixty and have demonstrated a Gadsden flag. It's like really gets exonerates and seventy, maybe three you idiot, but so that's a very deep part of the american psyche. Saying don't tread on me like that, if that is the American, that is the american perspective toward govern. One of the two american perspective stored government lets a boil:

onto its essence right, but what's what what's morally depraved here and and and despicable, is that we we should not be we should not have to. We should not be too old by our government how we are to behave when we're walking around on the street or in a store government has no right in this country to tell us such things emigrated. We shouldn't be naked. You know there are some stuff like that, may be, or you know you can't, because but but an odour restore can tell you, although of course there are limits on what nor restore can tell you is enormous or can throw you out, because you are black or you know you would do that. That famous sign that that has now been all that basically was overturned by the civil rights acts of nights at we refuse the right to reserve service tentatively. Refuse service to anyone is no longer constitutional,

gentlemen, but the arm historic and say what you have a mask on Barbara form, has no right to say you Now I want you to have a mask on nobody vote of eight. Oh there's, no legitimate public system in which we can say that people elected by proper offers implore. Eight now empowered, I guess by either the city council or by. The mayor I been out even though how the system works, but every day she has no right and she's doing it anyway and where, where is that, where civil libertarian left is there are some libertarian left anymore? There isn't right, it's gone right. They sell you now, once book suppressed, wants abigails writers book suppressed, because it says that you know, maybe it's not great for teenage girls to have disfiguring surgery and to take into account

hormones that will disrupt their body systems will rest their lives before they and their majority. That's! Ok! You can suppress those books. Like is when I was a kid left with civil libertarian right. The right was actually not that's a libertarian much. Or a much more about order and stuff like that met. This is like one of your key subjects of academic and policy folk. A lot. You know it is interesting. I'm in a disciplined court recently issued that ruling on anonymous donors increase their state of California, wanted it mandate- disclosure, Ah, but above all, political donation stop Look organization, wanted it one of the groups that was fighting. That was easy, You know when I saw that in the end are actually in De Lacey people's also fighting it and and they want the Supreme Court said that of course, donors can remain anonymous.

Oh well, that's an old, that's an old version of the left, that's kind of the net and top left that that we grew up with us. if a libertarian individual rights- and you don't see that very often special in relation to the to the disease, where the mentality of of so many liberals is. An irish regulation is good. I restrictions are good end at you know, for whatever psychological reasons that we ve got into on the show that these need to be necessitated rest, the right now, but you know I don't get the right. It is very much taken on some of the aspects of a kind of that new left, the nineteen sixty. Holding demonstrations. Have you know, Annie,

Stableman Terry in deep, the police are good, but not not the capital police too bad, you said, is very making a distinction such as they definitely swap laws. Are we able to you think that all of this is just the disfigurement of of partners? ship. I mean, I know you don't really because of course you are the author of the seminal peace. Yes, this is a revolution about what happened basis, That's the left. You know as a result of George Floor although all the trends that dovetailed and then exploded at the same moment because of the George Floyd moment, but I mean. The bizarre worry here is: is this wild reversal in it?

we hear from the left- is that the right has an authoritarian mindset. That's why the right loves Trump Authoritarian, its Reichstag and here's a mark Milly still talking about the Reichstag. You just Learn the word Reichstag, I think, uses October twenty to learn so much about general merely by the way that it yet They don't know what happened, but in the last few weeks I have learned so much about General Milly that I really dont care to know, and it's like a disturbing but I've. Oh, by the way, I guess if it gets reporters that he's pocket spent the last six months talking to have released their books all at once. In so I know every aspect of his views on every subject- and I love you my exactly like us- for drugs frost in flakes, but only on Tuesdays and wednesdays. John it on Thursday gets antique cappuccino at Starbucks, will he's from Boston and he worships the constitutional. That's what I read

Yesterday, I can susan glasnost. Researchers want to call an audible, but I was asking about what we are considering. Glasser has this: oh God has this bizarre peace. She is now releasing early some of the material, that's in her book that she's written with her husband, Peter Baker, on non trumps last year. That was to come out because of all the stuff about mark. Really she has now releasing it and its startling news that marked Milly Ghana was removed after the election was true. make short there wouldn't be no get out. There would be no readily thou Trump, wouldn't wouldn't stage acute right, and then it dovetails into this, which is that there's a conversation in early January in the oval office about whether or not the United States should strike IRAN and whether or not at your rod has been doing things and there should be a thing and mark an end, and that the other conversation that has had that she quotes, and this can breathless. Oh, my god, can you

leave this crazy, crazy, the trumpet menstruation. You know, Milly said why. Why are we ve been talking about this or something and pent said because their evil? and this is deemed to be. Oh, my god, can you believe I would say my pencil to say that there evil and the net result. There was a meeting of the White House to talk about whether or not they should strike IRAN, and everybody said you know what it's too late relieving office in sixteen days, You know we don't know what the fall it's gonna be. We have to leave this to Biden and guess what Noah. Biden struck IRAN by piling did something about the drone struck, the arabian drove strikes. in Iraq, which they in Rock and Syria, syria- As I see it first rank, but I think that's what they were talking about, and this whole thing is part of the Trump has gone insane he's going to go to war with IRAN before the before too, so we can seize,

power, so he doesn't go to war to IRAN with IRAN. He doesn't seize power and then Biden hits IRAN, but that's ok, cause it's Biden but trumpets, crazy, Abe. I'm sorry, but I You know- and I my mouth my jaw was hanging others another there's, another piece of news that the broke yesterday- that that fits into this question about the left and right shifting civil liberties in the framing of down tropical. Authoritarian, White House or the by demonstrations, and it's gonna flag, Facebook, its can flag but misinformation posts on placed on Facebook. This is a cracked. This had that come from the trumpet major

russian we would be the number one story about controlling the media about fascism is not is not on its way. It's here. I mean the other interesting point about, as that. That's, of course, about vaccination, so gents Aki said they were going to inform Facebook when they found out that people were, you know, use it. Whoop, publishing, misinformed, if you're mad vaccination on Facebook. So why why, by the way, why can't isn't Facebook capable of doing like it's a company worth it trillion dollars, they can hire ten thousand people to look at like kill bad information about vaccinations without the interference of the federal government, which doesn't have that many employees who are doing

who are bullets? What Europe should they be doing? Something also than reading social me and tat tagging things. It just seemed like a bizarre policy thing to me. If Mark Zuckerberg is worried that misinformation is being spread by fax, look about vaccination, he can shut it down and five seconds just as a higher five hundred people to do it Facebook is poison. You should get off that you should Cologne, eliminate your account if you haven't already your swimming at your own risk and I kind of wished it there's something about leftwing thought policing that doesnt striking is particularly a bizarre, because we ve been living with left wing top, listen for some time. The problem from my perspective, as it really is a counterbalance on right anymore. They they ve, convinced themselves that thought police in speech policeman Platforms is sort of something that maybe we should be doing to just the sort of policing speech policing that we'll

and there's a consensus now around the notion that you can't be exposed to particular thoughts because their dangerous, or at least these platforms should necessarily exists in the way that they do to provide you with access. He's with to these particular thoughts, guys it was it yeah. That's a faction on the right There is also a factor, the right, that's much more sort of really mimics kind of where the left was that in terms of free speech and anything goes not just on this question of the civil liberties lip libertarians through switching sides. I do think we at the beginning of something like a right wing, sixties, nineteen sixties here, and especially also you can take into consideration but I think no one realizes quite how many younger Americans are disgusted. By being, moralized add it from the there sat from the left in the way that the right ahead sort of wag their fingers at you know, kids back, then

so as far as exciting as that prospect, maybe this right wing sixties. I think the danger is that we also risk some of the access we lived through them, you have sex. What more do I think a night yet in this matter is terrifying, thought that I think a really an insight actually and and by the way, not not just January sex, but you know I mean you and on the lot of that stuff and of course, one of the reasons that you don't want. This to happen is that in countries one of the things that we learn, in the nineteenth century. After that, the idea of a political movement in a free society run by the least informed, the most hysterically, passionate and the ones most driven by. You know a desire to sex is not really the best way, the best way to organise the politics of the United States

because you're not ready yet Diane Asian Diabetes of Hashish Mcnally is, God, is not how it is that way: self governing society that day's interesting. That last part is kind of been dropped from both sides, the main and both be alarmed and kind of modern world save America World does not like came it's all get together and no other chapter? Six? It's all politics. Every every single energy is directive where politics and waited slightly different from the sixties. I think I mean there's not even I guess, maybe I'm not gonna, let you have a cultural expressions of kind of woke me they're. So bad, you know of the book ethos better, that it's just everything drives toward political change whose who's running the show an. And how are we going even worse. Yes, that's even under full of work, because their full of hormones and there

using them their full of full of their full of like pent up sexual energy and for pointing at the politics when they should. he chasing each other, you know around or good I like doing whatever they, they It must be maddening the progressive lives in a world in which every sexual appetite is is prescribed and even you're, not lionize as some sort of a unique personnel trade and a contribution to a more just society, and yet just about Expression of sexual appetite is fraught with with social conflict since any legal consequences to the point where you're pretty not able to really pursue. A bold and assertive fashion a throbbing member governments, homes as an article every two weeks and days Governor another group home in Brooklyn and their eighteen people,

they are in there all married, they call themselves married, but its third deeper their relationship with a merry date. Different couples, times different problems. Yet unless you're in that shut up yeah? We're here is my discovery. Last nights, I so I was watching this hdtv show house hunters and this very nice couple from Long Island is looking at three houses and tried so which one to have- and I wanted to figure out where the house's work, as you know, they don't we am, I know, long island. They don't ever tell you where they are exactly so the little maddening If you know the area, I want to know what it is. So I search their names and house hunters and hdtv whatever and so comes out. I could really find them, but it said house,

hunters features first threat but like that both are barely like house Anders I hated you know I hate to give sore up any more ammunition for his belief that America needs to be burned up in a fire, but went you know, that's very complex bedroom planning, while using, I fear in further trouble I mean to others. bed rooms. Are they all in it can make it What does a larger from job, but about a California king? Is that enough for three people I don't know I mean that's, gives very very proud. that's a pretty sooner podcast. Advertisers will be, you have every right, you copy for the trouble bad. You know like that's right, yeah yeah yeah. They they sustain. I believe they both use sustainable fabrics,

As for you, now get a throbbing in the bed of the throttle, the sheets that fit through apple, bad that have been done with fair trade, because that is really a beautiful thing we are so long, but I gotta talk to you about the bonds and group Today Friday you can get Dividend CAFE David Bonds, weekly news letter about Macro economic and market moves from the bonds and group. This three billion dollar by coastal management services, firm to internet publications, Dividend CAFE outcome and the Deasey Data come. As I say, Devenant CAFE comes out on Friday. is Deasey. Today comes out daily and L and David uses his unparalleled analytical ability to look at what is going on and help us. Understand where we should and where we

move our money and what what what we might do with her money. If we think that we can make moves that are congruity with where things are going as people know, if they ve heard me say this David is eight is a sceptic about the long term dangers of inflation, and he has very He has been releasing very interesting data this week about how, just as everybody is now terrified of inflation. All of the numbers that lead to in our fears about inflationary spirals, lumber, various other things have crashed in the last month. There they are. like back to prepare them levels, but they, but they are nowhere near the highs that they were a month ago and often in economic writing, an economic thinking that

people are analyzing effects after they ve already been felt and as their already recovering themselves. This is day you could get if you subscribe. That's where I saw that's where you can learn it. You can make your own drawing conclusions from it. DC to data come and go to develop. Cafe I come to to subscribe and and provide yourself with the antidote to the intellectual, spaghetti of the financial services and management business. Ok, so we can we oughta, yet only Britain, but I now before we end up yet I want a circle back to Cuba. Briefly, because Gunnar understands the Florida has a pilot area. Gettin brain estate

that is so good, but I just want to enter some of it into the record here. Quoth, the best role for the military, the cuban military is to realize that the time is up that you can't keep doing the bidding of our rapporteur for repressive dictatorship that is not governing with the consent of the government, and so clearly this is a dictatorship that is lost not that they ever had it, but clearly there dont have the consent of the government now, and so I think the best thing would be for the military's, particularly some of the young military folks, to understand that you can really be historic in this, that you complain, instrumental role and founding a free Cuba resounding a country, any free republic, and that will be something that will help millions of people and that will somehow somehow be something that will cause

to live in the history books. One thing the communist regimes fear the most is the truth, and if we are able to help people communicate with each other community with the outside world, the truth is going the matter and that will be decisive. Mr President, now is the time to stand up and be counted. This is a time for choosing the sometimes a stand with the people who are seeking freedom from a brutal sixty two year reign of Communist repressed. God bless him. That's a fantastic statement which one also the marker Rubio made to the towards us although to a lesser extent, on twitter and was chastised by a functionary in the state Department for real against inciting violence. Nobody wants violence. This is. this is what we should be hearing from the present United States military action. Take a leading role in ending this. Sixty to your long mistake you know. If I were planning a coup, I would want Rhonda Santas as part of my coup, if you're doing any, if our

so you're cool. I actually what's wrong. I don't think I would want Martin Mark Marker million as a as part of Michael. I may I suggest that system I I really know it now in twitter anymore, but I'm glad I'm not in Twitter, because I probably would have spent the entire day yesterday, naming people that I wouldn't want to be part of my coup and people wouldn't have gotten a joke of them would have been cancelled, but up, I hope everybody sat and thoughtless. And hard about who who you hood? Who did you would have join you? you're cool and who you wouldn't have sort of like the two synagogues honoured on the desert island in other guy rescuers shows up Is it just the desert, island didn't and and he's built to synagogues and the and the the rescuers says. Why did you built synagogues any several, this

is the one I go to it. That's the one I wouldn't set foot in Saudi, so that's my my planning, makin Hetty? Thank you so much for joining us. As always, read mats work at commentary magazine dot com, where we give you a few free, weeds and ass. You subscribe. We do not talk enough about the articles in the issue in the articles on the website and we're gonna start doing more that beginning next week, because I feel like We are remiss in trying to give you some of the benefits are offering the editors podcast ass or view they do a fantastic thing at the end of every podcast, they publish a lot more stuff than we do but you know where they they they pitch pieces on national review that they think are the best pieces of the last couple of days. We should really be doing doing more of that, but match a search. You Boeing go to Google simply search massive Continental Commentary magazine and his that's believe it or not. The

just wait, a search commentary. We do have a search engine and it's pretty good, but that's actually my secret. That's how I do what I just gotta Google until GO will cancel thus, which probably will You know tomorrow, since I sat about Abigail shall iron after half muffled d I asked about now, The problem with the rhetoric things I think, that's what they wanna. Let frontage caught. Yes, search commentary and throbbing in Europe at a lotta couldst about better, like have agreed, we again for a Christie gave Noah and the absent Christie Rose will be back on Monday. I'm John ports keep the candle burning.