They, prime members, you can listen to business wars ad free on amazon, music downloading. today the I'm david brown, and this is business wars, The. so it's sunday afternoon and you're all at a toilet paper. Where is your family go to stock up? You heading on it I get runner you embarking on a journey to your local walmart. Wherever you end up, there's a good chance, we'll be walking out of their with way more than whenever you came in for but no

where your loyalties lie both of these big box. Retailers have become staples of american pop. Her culture. We ve seen him in movies and tv shows as a good chance. You are your friends caught the sitcom sleeper hit superstore, which followed the lives of employees at a walmart like fictional. in cloud. Nine sorry waste about a water battle being, sweet just down there and to your. Let things come on. I'm not a euro here hear all these big box story, have been household names for decades, but mainstream retail has evolved? It's an e commerce world and all living in it and that's force these stores to pivot their own business strategies here to bring us up speed on how target in walmart are tackling the new retail landscape. Is sarah na sour she's, a retail rapporteur for the wall street journal, lose coverage of targeted mark dives into how these stores or navigating some of the industry's biggest shifts sarah,

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soda were targeted area? So I went to many targets and it was definitely part of my childhood and there was a thing that they would dude over the holidays. They would have a holiday stuffed animals air- and I remember my grandmother- really hustling always every year to trial. Get me that bear yes. I do some early target memories and fewer walmart memories, because I was a minnesota yeah, whether you go by first target experience. I was a reporter ending because of us snow storm. We were, standing in. I think it was Ames iowa or something I was dressed totally. You know southern I had I had short saw it in the middle of a snowstorm, and I said I gotta find some blows and the first thing out of someone's mouth was you gotta, get to target and is like what what's a target I mean you think about argued and walmart in in a way I guess at some level there sort of interchangeable lots of the same products, but I

by and large. Maybe you would disagree with this, but I have a since that people have very different perceptions of each. In fact, hears of I'll tik tok, that sort of alludes to this effort mile zone, walmart What you gonna do now: I got a new. You are action to that clips. Here, it's a really sort of common like if you if you, google, around or you're looking through Tik tok twitter instagram

there's a lot of sort of high low comparisons between walmart and target, and I find these pretty fascinating. You know they have different shopper bases. Core shopper basis were huge, so everyone's chops at one of these a lot right early, sometimes but targets core shopper, is higher income than walmart and they have very different store. Footprints, like I talked about growin up a minnesota right and not really being familiar with walmart. The state with the most walmart is texas in florida and the south. the east and target started a minnesota and built it store base out from you know the upper midwest, and so not only do they have sort of different demographic core shoppers. To some extent, though, that starting to emerge a little bit there in different place, is physically in our country, and we know those places are different. The well you can target sort of viewed as the more upscale place to shop, and I know only your and our series. We talked about how target early on ice

early on probably around the ninetys it seemed like seem to be turning to designers as awaited distinguish themselves, as I think, it's safe to say a discount retailer curious. How do you see that divide actually having emerged yet while they have really different origin stories, so target came out of a department, store dayton, hudson and so their entire sort of cultural, background and like the muscles that they had originally as discounter come from department store instincts, whereas walmart came from sort of five and dime d. counter routes, so they even at the very beginning to tend different, like muscle memory,

Well, I love how you described that with the different muscle memory, and it makes a lot more sense to me when you put it that way because yeah they they came out of that department store vs, five and dime culture. But what about how that translates to today I mean how do they stack up against each other, or do you have a sense that I do there? So one huge difference is that walmart is primarily a grocery store. Most of it's revenue actually comes from. serious harm and that's because they evolved into the super centre format in the eighties. So this idea that you should have had two sides of the box merchandise and then grocery fresh food and enough cereal and all that target has come to grocery later and so a higher percentage of their sales are from things like clothing, home goods. I'll oriented items and again what sort of merging towards each other that's going on now, but from a percentage revenue. It still very different. Do you

I have a sense that that translates into a kind of difference in quality and maybe consistency as well. I don't have a sense that it translates into a difference. In quality, but it definitely translates into a difference and just the type of things that they each carry you know, Walmart is going to carry a higher percentage of their apparel is going to be functional. Stuff target has lots of functional stuff too, but they tend to always translate even things like a sock through a high style lens walmart is doing that more and more, but you know at Walmart I can get some work boots, some hardcore work boots. If I want them, I wouldn't think, Every single target in america is gonna. Provide me that you reported more high income. Shoppers have started flocking toward walmart for everyday items in you just made reference to the fact that that gap seems to be closing. Why do you think that's happening right now? So many americans are cash strapped because of inflation and higher prices, and

prior ties in spending on food and other necessities and less on. You know designer throw pillows so right there. You know what we talked about where we're target has its strengths and where most of its sails come from tends to be less on the necessity side, whereas walmart attempts to be more and so Walmart has extra said for a few quarters now that more higher income shoppers are its gaining market share with that cohort of shoppers in part, because the common walmart to grocery shopping and get lower prices. That's really interesting! I'm curious whether you think this is something that can a last after whatever this is there were going through, economically speaking, turned the corner, I'm so curious to find out.

I know Walmart is very conscientiously trying to hold onto their shoppers like they have their attention now and they want to keep em. They ve tried to do that in the past. They have definitely tried to sort of mimic. How target thinks about design with clothes and not done a great job at it, but I think felt that they sort of have the attention of some of those shoppers right now. So I think it remains to be seen but keep em and then, at the same time you have target saying you know we saw groceries or offering lower price points were increasing our marketing around those things, and you can see. change and stores, so that each kind of trying to in our appeal off a little bit of others shoppers you know I have noticed how this is translated on screen recently Walmart had some big name celebs promoting the brand. I in fact I think we have a clip now from an ad. They ran for mother's day, featuring the rapper cardi b, median jenny slate. The author, my warmer plus membership, is the mother mother of all savings membership. So what do you think Walmart com

were accomplished by listing some of these bigger names to promote the brain? I think they're trying to attract a wider group shoppers younger shoppers? You know who I think a lot of us older folks, tend to use the word milan all the catch, all four people younger than nice, but nobody else an hour like almost middle age rate, as there are very much parents and their going after moms, which tends to be for both target and walmart there their course her base human tree in the walmart dominates in grocery. What do you think target hasn't been able to capitalize on that in the same way, because they they have been so good at sort of offering design and general merchandise is the term which has higher margin the grocery their stores were built to sell those things It takes up a lot of space and stores. I think there's been an ongoing internal debate for years at target about. You know how much space to devote to fresh food. Do you build new stores that looked more, like you know, a traditional grocery store when you

of a lot more fresh food or other items, you need to have a different labour model. It's just. It's actually really complex to sell food, and you know they ve been good at the other stuff. So there's been some healthy debate for years internally there. So do you think that walmart could sort of flip that around and try to capitalize on an arrow, more fashionable clothes or have they even tried to do that from way have an end. They have act they're actively trying now, I think, for them it's always been sort of finding this balance. Comes to fashion in understanding the leather shoppers want to come for them to four socks rain and white t shirts? And then they don't want to lose, though shoppers, and if they go too far and near that action or prices get too high, they might and then more recently, doing more partnerships with coding brands, they bought some apparel brands if sold some apparel brands recently in there

and a figure out like with their own. Private labels are store, brain clothes or home goods. How can they partner with a partner with like drew barrymore hum, and the pioneer woman and other sort of influencers and personalities too tried figure out sort of what's their version of target design. It'll be a shame to see how're? Whether these stick do you have any kind of sense of weather? is going to last or how durable some These collaboration will be. I think Walmart probably has a better chance right now than they have in years to attract those types of shoppers, because the anything that's happened, sort of parallel to what we ve been talking about is that both targeted walmart have been very threatened by amazon and that means and

in a lot in home delivery services that allow you to order online and pick up in a store parking lot or have things delivered to home and both of the retailers ito have say that a higher income shoppers are attracted to those services. Walmart has that pretty ramp and because of what's happening in the economy, if, if people that are wealthier sort of think that the producer walmart is good enough or that the clothed in that they buy for their kids as fashionable enough, they might have a chance to keep some looks yeah. You know, I think I sense and an elephant in the and we're gonna have to touch on the amazon of it all and just a bit, but could you ever see walmart getting to a place where consumers rave about their clothing in the same way that they re about targets I mean: is that a possibility for walmart they're not there yet, but they are certainly trying

and one way that they're doing it that I find interesting is sort of marketing their middle of the road. We serve every one approach they talk about. We dress america, for example, and so I don't think they'll ever be. You know that have exactly the same approach. The target doesn't it's messaging around this year, but they definitely are are trying to figure out like what will what will stick and resonate and feel. real when in a we talk about our version of style, there we're talking with Sarah na sour. She is retail report for the wall street journal. We gonna grab a few things at walmart, perhaps and then get changed, were quick target run more business wars when we return business where's is brought to you by volkswagen. Making this. Which to an electric vehicles, can be scary me. It's tough ripen as part of the lure of ease is how to filled, they are

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Sarah bring us up to speed on how targeted walmart are performing today, there are killing it during the pandemic. Now inflation up consumers being a bit more careful You were saying when it comes to their spending habits. Where does this leave retailers right now? Walmart and target are really perfect examples for it. Sort of the dichotomy that's happening in retail target has not. Report is strong results in recent quarters and they say that people, because they are prioritizing necessities with their spending, as prices go up there by a few of their general merchandise items. Where target is strong, whereas walmart has reported strong sales, because people are per thousand groceries and their known for low prices, and so there their peers. Off a little market share in some cases. But this dynamic they're, both saying hey people, are prioritizing necessities, its hurting the sales of some of our goods. Also in a we all got so many being a patio furniture grew.

Oh all those things, lotta people bottom earlier in the pandemic. We now need to buy another. What you're a lot of you were buying online to and I'm curious about, the shift into e commerce and how they differed or have they between target in Walmart, from which you can tell they both sea in a more people by not mine target has especially during the pandemic, the percentage assails that come through digital channels? went up really really fast in and a lot of that is picking up in a store. Parking lot is not necessarily home delivery, but we have seen that you know sort of get flatter at both a both. Retailers are not that it's, You know sort of off course, there's still a general overall long term trend to more and more sales happening online, but we're not seen the spikes of their early pandemic. Interesting now I'm curious about how walmart and targets have been and how successful they ve been in keeping up with some of the bigger e commerce companies. What have you noticed in that regard? It's been a huge focus for both of them. They boasted of had a wake up call. You know several

ago that this was real and that was really threatening. I think you know you also, mine walmart is much much bigger than target much. They don't even they compare in terms of revenue. Employees Walmart, the largest private employer in the country, suffered them in some ways its. It was more. I think you know I can take a while to feel like something is an existential threat when you're that big year, but they got there. and and that's why they have invested a lot of money and been willing, frankly, to lose money trying to grow their online business? Will what about the advantages that brick and mortar you know? I guess it, It used to be sort of counter intuitive that brick and mortar stores might have an advantage over e commerce. Given that e commerce was taking off, but are there from from what you can

tell any real advantages that walmart and target enjoy when it comes to appealing to the everyday consumer for sure, and they have stores amazon. You know that's why they bought whole foods, so the stores are a huge advantage in terms of both using them as a shipping hub, in some cases right to get goods to our front doors through, like the back room of the store, as well as a pickup spot as well as sometimes you know, people want to pick up their own But I was sorry you just need something last minute and you don't have time to bite on minors. That's what some people prefer a right that we see in rats thing, so you know when I first started this be, which is now going on a hoss tenure. As you know, the narrative at the time was very much that amazon was gonna, kill all he's retailers that hasn't played out, because stores do still have a value and that's why I'm I'm trying to figure out that the business. At the end of the day, though, there's still a huge, huge sort of threat to like the traditional model, and that's why we have seen that tradition model changed so much. That's why I can go on target dot com and place an order in two hours later pick it up

Stop arguments see you anticipated. What is going to ask you about, because I've seen like lockers at walmart, where you can pick up stuff that you ordered online and I've wondered, is that do people really use that it sounds like you, ve tried it it targeted while the lockers I dont think have been wildly successful. Actually, I'm talking more about you drive up to the parking lot and someone brings you something and puts it in your trunk monitoring it. Now I didn't realize that that was how target was doing so s organ in walmart both offered that particular service drive up, but you don't think that people will order online and walk into the store that that's a distinction. People do that, but so far its proven less popular than in bringing it outside. Sometimes people, a high percentage of people will still like park. The car come into the star yeah. But I don't know if anyone if you ve ever been driven around with kids young kids, especially and tried to get him out of the car seats

and all that rigour, moral and you end- you live in car country right which I don't know if you know wanna, unbuckling your kids and come into the store every single s fascinating, to hear you say this, because I've always wondered. Why would you online and order and then go over to the store and pick it up when you could, for example, if you are a prime member just do it wants. You know, dude that shopping interaction once per item, as opposed to twice right? I'm cute What you're thinking is under think it's more immediate right there, the way that people are doing many people do in a combination of all of these things right in any given weak, and it's like you know, I can speak to my own. behaviors, but you know some things. I know in advance, I'm going to need right, could order them online? And it's fine if they arrived? Three four: five: nine days later and other things: it's not ok for them too days later and I might feel like

but to be passionate store and I'm an order and it might be it'll, be ready letter today or tomorrow morning. I pick it up other times. You want to go into the store, so I think people are doing a lot of like mixing of all of these new services. Will I'm curious, then? How well do you think her? How much of an impact do you think this parkin, grabber or pull up in grabs energy is, you know, is, is doing for target. Walmart is an end. Is it enough to really make a difference in the bottom line, for either room it's enough to make a difference in sales, but so far is not very profitable made it still higher costs bottle. Then, when we shoppers do the work and go into the store and pick something up yeah, but it's been wildly successful for each of them in terms of attracting people interested in their stores interesting. So you don't get the secondary business of someone coming in and seeing something else that they want to throw into the shopping cart. In some cases they do in some cases they do interesting. Now, let's talk about the warmer

plus subscription aren't a whole lot about walmart plus. I know that this is something that they ve been working with and there they seemed be promoting right now. What are you now the roll out of that programme how it's going. They haven't been very forthcoming on publicly talking about how many members they have and how it's going mice, an estimate for morgan stanley. Earlier today, that said, you know it's a little less than twenty million americans that they estimate our members. So it's much much smaller than amazon, prime, which should probably most closely resembles as in terms of its membership. You pay a membership, you get free shipping, you get some access to some entertainment and some other benefits appears to be in a growing slowly yeah. I guess I do think that this was just a dream.

to attempt to do what amazon prime was was doing. I mean: is that really why we're seeing walmart block in a way? Yes, but I think there is a wider strategy behind that to me as even more interesting, which is part of why amazon is so threatening to target and wal mart? Is that they offer this thing. You know fast. Shipping, in a few now so many items to our doorsteps, oliver, america, but they dont in ten to necessary in the? U dont rely on actually making money from every one of those sales davies. Other businesses, like eight of u S, the cloud computing business or their advertising business, if these other actually very profitable revenue streams, so walmart in target. To some extent really try to figure out what is their aid of a? U s c c No walmart experimenting with health services. Advertise in target also experimenting with advertising. Walmart has said that that's a growing part of their revenue strain

and I think walmart plus is sort of another example of the way there trying to figure out. How can we get revenue? How could we make money and be profitable? something other than shipping. You know a five dollar box of shampoo to your house, yeah I totally get that. Can I ask about targets circle, I've unfamiliar with that, but it seems more like a rewards programme, and I'm curious. I wonder he argued, has anything similar to what would walmart, plus or prime, not not not in an extensive way. Yet a circle is more of sort of a digital coupon model, as well as sort of a way to track your purchases right in a way cause. You enter your phone number Then all your purchases are linked to that phone number and they know what you're buying and they could. You know, sell to you better hypothetically. So it's a little bit more of a digital coupon model which is more sort of how target, I think, has thought about loyalty, programs and credit cards and other other

is that they try to attract more shoppers and and no more about us, is shoppers. What what about subscription grams overruled. How do you think that they fall into the larger sort of Zeit guys to retail these days? There really popular, I think, a lot of people. I try and then a you know it's hard. I think amazon got a big head start there. They have. I think you know some estimates almost two hundred million. U s pride members, so you know first. lot of folks, you don't necessarily mean AL you. My hat costs goes another membership, not all right. That is very popular right some people have a limit on how many memberships they want to pay for her. She that the true something else that stands out to me about the walmart plus app. Apparently, you can scan items as you go along, which seem sort of similar to those amazon fresh, grocery stores puts walmart up to with

and do you think it actually provides the convenience factor that that walmart thinks it does the other experimented with though they costs scanning go and its head different adoration. It's been more successful for them at sands club, which is their wholesale club chain less like similar takako and in part, because that, So it's sort of you know it's an a group of members and they come in and you're just scanning on your phone right, you're, just using your phone as like a a scanner you're scanning, and then you can in some cases, sort of sort of walk out. You have to check in at a terminal and say, like I scan something I paid and you leave, but hypothetically it allows you to skip the line there. I hypothetically, I think, is the important word here. My gut tells me that it's sort of gimmicky that it's almost an attempt to yourself somehow to high tech or that sort of feeling that you know we're. We know how you really want to do this. Here's, how

You can am I am I off the mark too much? I think it depends on Walmart is using this as sort of a benefit rate for their walmart plus in walmart stores, but I think the pain of waiting in line at some of these stores is huge. There has been a lot of like how can we saw for that and you? Amazon has invested a lot of money in these stores. Were you just walk out if area amazon prime number, so the the like problem that is trying to solve for his very real riot and a huge pain point and, of course, part of the reason that you know retailers are experimenting with his high tech solutions. Is they don't want to just pay to have more cashiers, because it's a big expense? That would be another solution and so scanning go or the amazon stores we can just walk out are all attempts to try to figure out another way to solve the problem

we're talking with wall street journal reporter Sarah knauss hour. Now, when we come back, we're going to be taking a look at the future, the big box stores you know and love stay with it. The spark cash plus card from the capital, one helps you earn unlimited two percent cash back on every purchase and with no proof spending limit. Your purchasing power can adapt to meet your business needs Jorge gaviria, under of mossy under reinvest is two percent cash. to help grow his business with new products must and it is a massive supply chain. Company connected elevating traditional mexican heirloom corn, farmers with restaurants, shifts and consumers who, while I just love hearing about companies like mossy under Heaven important mission behind their work. Now imagine what the spark cash plus card from capital, one

and unlimited two percent cash back on every purchase could do for your business capital. One what's in your wallet, find out more capital one dot com, slash spark cash plus terms and conditions apply. welcome, the business wars, we're talking with wall street journal. Reporters Sarah nascar, who writes about how major retailers like target in walmart, so the big box stores or navigating change in this industry, sir, as E commerce continues to boom. I wonder what the big box stores are doing to revive interest for shopping in person. I know that their bins, major store redesign from Walmart, most certainly where they up to their there, the other their experimenting with stories that you now sort o o

the targets. If you know that it was a walmart, you might think it's a target, there's a lot more emphasis on the beauty section instead of display areas and the beauty section in these redesign stores apparel is sort of more. Appealingly laid out more mannequin in what are called sort of like lifestyle displays in retail. You know where you can see the sort of furniture in a room set up things like that I haven't seen any these haughty toilet walmart, yet not many summits, in sa teterboro, I in new jersey, there's a few but there's more coming, and I think that speaks to some of the themes we've been talking about. You know that walmart is trying to acknowledge, acknowledges that, like stores need to serve likely a purpose beyond selling widgets in the future, because online sales and you know continue to grow, and so they are trying to make them more appealing places. You think this is a tactic that is going to pay off or too soon, to tell it's too soon to tell theirs

so few them at this point will have to wait and see. I wonder where, like a universe, think of targets in smaller cities or their walmart neighbourhood shops, where those fit into the larger scale of target versus walmart with ice up suppose this was an attempt to meet consumers where they are specifically inner city folks, exactly exactly turn. It has been more aggressive, certainly than walmart, and getting into cities been willing to open, more small format, stores and they say that they want to do more of that. In some cases, operating in some of those markets can be tricky from a profitability standpoint. It can be operationally complex. There's, like you know, a lot of humans that to deal with and to figure out how to keep, shall Stockton keep everyone com. This is a challenge.

target is, is leaning into that further. Exactly the reason you said right that they want to go where people want target stories and if they are willing to sort of open, smaller formats or new models, are offered different pricing and things like that in those areas, it's hard to do get target being successful in cities, but what about those walmart neighborhoods neighborhoods, Let's hear their like grocery stores was sort of a mini general merchandise, side of a woman and are smaller than like a super centre would be. They have had fits and starts with them. I mean they're still part of their model, but they're not you know, except in them rapidly. Sir, I have to ask you about this because when I heard about these Walmart neighbourhood stores, the first thing I thought of was the many battles with a spent. I was living. los angeles. At the time- and I remember there was a walmart- it was gonna move into a neighbourhood, and the residents of the neighborhood did not want the walmart possession of their their community this led to a lot of tension between first, the can

only then local officials in walmart and it seems like target of late has had its own push back from a certain consumer base, as well with the start of pride. We've seen, the conservatives are pushing back against some of the merchandise in target and the target's stock price, apparently suffering from some of the buffeting there. I'm curious how you think, walmart and target have managed to buffet some of these political headwinds. I guess you could say it's been tricky. It's you know. The target example you mentioned is a is a clear example of you know when it can be tricky because they've managed to sort of anger. I think people that have strong emotions on both sides of lgbtq rights and trans rights issues, and they you know they they had a pride collection. They started to pull back on it because they were afraid for their workers, safety and they were getting lots of threats, and you know that's become,

something it's heated for both sides of that argument. Walmart, I think also in oh, has had moments like this in the past and in some ways, walmart, though, wool will try to be very very neutral. They have again different consumer core consumer bases, their headquarters in different parts of the country. There is different cultural reasons. Why and business reasons why Walmart probably is even more cautious about out there on any particular issue. You think there's a bigger take away from this. Is one company doing it better. Then another or are they comparable given their core consumer base? What do you think I don't? well, if one is doing it better than the other target. Had this recent issue, I think that was pretty high profile and dramatic and walmart has had those in the past. I think, if anything, it shows that,

This is something that if you're, the ceo or you know, instead of the c suite of any company in america right now, it's something that you have to be very cognizant of in a way that in even you know five years ago. Certainly ten years ago, companies really didn't even see themselves playing. This role in society is sort of arbiter of what might be right or wrong on some of these issues, but some customers now sort of think that companies should be, and so you know they have to figure out a way to navigate through what do you think target in walmart should be focusing on to remain competitive, because this is a fast changing space. For all the reasons we ve we ve been talking about, and I wonder if there are headed in the right direction, would you thing each company is trying to go where they dont have

nl the most market share. Yet right is all about like. Where can we grow our market share, because we have this group of folks lockdown or this region of this type of product? But where can we get more for her and so they're trying to each find their own kind of white space. For a moment, I'd like to ask you to maybe take off your ear reporters hat here and just talk about your own experience, have you had an experience in a wall martyred or a target that has in some way affected your sense of of what these stores are about and in their place in the world. I reason I asked I think, of big box stores and when people say big boxers, almost a pejorative, vibe attached to it, but I also know a lot of people who, when they need to get out of the house

time to go to a world order, a target just to get away. I like exercise in the winter yeah I'd love it in, and you know I'm curious if you ve ever had an experience like out or maybe a moment that sort of hangs with Yucas, it's gotta, be a big part of your job the I do, a lot of shopping that's a lot of trying to talk to worker. isn't getting my own stuff that you're right the term big box can sort of be pejorative and and have a negative connotation for some people, or it doesn't necessarily feel good. You know people will

the couch it in like why I had to buy it. There cause all these practical reasons for my life, but I you know at the end of the day, people are super strapped for time and you know as a working mom. I really really relate to that, and I think that a big box store is often successful, because it's just so easy to get lots of different things in one spot quickly. Right and that is plays a role that mean that plays a real role in people's lives. We literally don't have time sometimes to I dunno- be more precious about it than that. One thing that has been interesting in terms of sort of some of the perception dynamics

in talking about it. As I've been covering, these companies is targets. Customers can be just so like incredibly loyal and positive in a way that I find fascinating. They ve done. If you know a good job at building shopper, loyalty just around the feeling of shopping at target and the brand- and I think that walmart has been more functional instead of its pricey message and that has led to some big differences- and you know, I think, also any place that is associated with lower prices and therefore appealing to lower income. Shoppers sometimes can be sort of people. People are uncomfortable with

pretty in america yeah right, even if you are poor, and so the psychology around that, I think is part of the brand perception is based on some of you know my conversations with how they view themselves, and it is hard for america collectively to see ourselves as a country that struggles with poverty sometimes, and sometimes that can inf hence how we, in our view, different brands and our own kind of aspirations who we are and what we should be buying. If all of that and it's it's little lofty, but it's definitely something I have picked up on covering a lot of these big box folks. What do you think the next big is in big box retail. Is there something that you see emerging that we should be keeping an eye out for that's an interest,

the question I dont know if I m m the fortune teller on that particular, but I think that we're gonna see two things short term. You know this year. Maybe next year is so clear that retailers are struggling with the fact that people are still not even as inflation cool slightly. It's still so elevated compared to two years ago say that people are me now, there's lots of signs at their spending. A lot Where their money on the necessities and they're using debt to make payments and like that and that will obviously you know, impact like how many you know, extra pairs of shoes you're going to buy for yourself, your kids are like. Am I going to get the ro pillow- that I just think is fun, but I dont really need you know that kind of pullback wool is just percolating through every retailer, so short term is about navigating that right longer. They still have their eyes on

They found a figure out to sell even more, you know through ah line or app purchases, but actually make some money off of it is probably the big question mark that I'm watching I'm an reveal secret here, Kelly kyle, who is our producer? She admits that when that that she's, actually walked out with something she didn't need. Hers is candles, apparently do you have any. You have anything like that where you go inside and you find yourself, what did I? What did I just just buy? All the time. Today I literally went to cost go this morning. Like I'm, not gonna spend hundreds of dollars here. I can't I just. I need olive oil in this one frozen thing that my kids lake and I think I spent two dollars, and I bought something to automatically reach my car battery and a plant for the front stoop and yeah, I mean that is that it

how the psychology of shopping works if the merchants are doing their job. Sarah nassauer thanks so much for joining us. Thanks for having me Sarah nassauer covers retail for the wall street journal coming up action, the best business wars daily, I hope your hungry, because we're biting into the fast food industry from wondering this is episode. Five of target verses, walmart for business wars, I'm your hosts, david brown, kelly, kyle, produce this episode interview episode producer is peter, are coming karen low, is our senior producer and editor at it didn't is by emily frost sounded and by kyle randall additional audio assistance by sergio enricos dave shillings producer. Our senior managing producer is ryan lore Matt gantt is our managing producer. Our executive producers are jenny, lauer, beckmann and martial louis

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