Join one replied. An apple pie casts, or the wonder, react to listen to business wars early, an ad free the. Music streaming platforms have exploded in popularity and experts, it saved the industry as c deeply as became outdated and it seemed like songs- were free for the taking regular, dependable revenue was hard to come by streaming, changed that and now the platforms and the major record companies are raking in cash, the big three universal music warner and sony make a meal. In dollars every hour, according to the trade publication music business world wide the entire industry is set to double in value by twenty thirty. According to analyse to goldman sachs becoming a forty five billion dollar industry. They said but the revenue generated is still lower than what it was during the hay Dave CD sales

there's anxiety simmering about whether streaming grove can continue at its current pace. There's major discontent, the industry surrounding who's not profiting from streaming, and that's that ask the majority of artists critics of the status quo say that musicians are vastly underpaid and their wise up to the inequity. Artist your finding new ways to reach fans and make money outside of streaming. But is the backlash enough to change the economic model itself here to talk about the state of the music industry with us or music journalists, brittany, spanish, Senior writer, rolling stone, covering music, phantom and pop culture and a cockroach music and culture journalist and form a record label executive at some of the industry's biggest outlets will look back it. Some of our best music industry stories from our sister show business wars daily and look ahead to our next season. Their swift versus scooter brought stick. For the best of business wars thing.

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c, o r t dot com, slash flexible. from laundry. I'm david brown- and this is the best of business wars daily here- to talk about the state of the music industry, where this music journalists, brittany spam ass, she senior staff, rider rolling stone covering music, phantom and pop culture, and I am a cochrane whose a former record label exec turn music and culture. Journalist name of brittany, come. It's great to heavy. Both with us is greatly earlier. Thank you, rennie tell us a little bit about yourself. How'd you get in at rolling stone and all that I said working at rolling stone and twenty fifteen. Pretty soon after I graduate college, I started pretty entry level and had been freelancing off and on covering festivals and I've slowly gone up the ranks from being an assistant to being a senior writer. Now so I read a lot of cover stories

features and all that good stuff, so the latter is still there. You can actually remember from the bottom and the name of tell us a little bit about how you decided to get out from behind the I guess, what the control panel or the recording studio, desk, yeah and and and move into journalism that have the office desk. Actually, I was a marketing executive and it was kind of by accident. I went from marketing to management and then, when I left management, my intention had been to still be a consultant, but I kind of fell into writing and before I knew it, that was my primary gig and now just based on the years of experience. I have behind the scenes and just my love for music and culture in general. in a unique position and given me a unique purview as a journalist from which to write. Well, you know we. We started this episode off by talking about the streaming platforms and their incredible growth and the top service. As spotify, if we think back to the big,

meaning of this year. There was a major dust up over it. Spotify was touched on when Neil younger, the legendary sort of folk rock artist, I guess called into the podcast host Joe rogan and false claims about the covert back scene in the virus were young, was giving spotify an ultimatum. It's like or rogan and spot if I chose rogan and that ended up wiping billions off its market value. You know, with with a reaction from the market, and then a spate of other high profile artist, join young and leaving the streaming service. Let's take a quick, listen to a clip from a recent episode of business wars daily Ass has been a tough few weeks for the company whose executives continue to insist. They can't police. What rogan says? Why doesn't say on his own show, still spot I said it will add, content advisory notices on any podcast episode, which features discussions about covert and shit

links to trusted resources about the virus with listeners according to cnn. Despite those moves, the backlash hasn't seemed to let up even from inside the company An anonymous employee told the verge that frustration is increasing and that managements response quote. All kind of ladders up to what's best for Joe rogan ngo rogan, audience end quote You can imagine what spotify chief rivals doing in the wake of this downward spiral. Soaking it up shortly after young removed his catalogue from spotify apple music, really the timely, we love neo public playlist and promoted Music through push notifications tweeting that they were quote. The home kneel down. Don't worry, they didn't forget about joanie apples. We love joanie to playlist, came out a few days later, there's been! No. What a joy of articles instructing music lovers on how to shift their music libraries from spotify to apple and other platforms.

Twitter is alight with stories of folks doing just that. The question now is ill spotify, recover, well, course that was a that was going on back earlier much earlier this year when there seem to be a whole lot more attention paid to covert nineteen protocols and that sort of thing, brittany. What do you think I mean fast forwarding into later twenty twenty two more than half way through the year house. If I'd done, and what about the whole controversy yeah me, and I think that the fear that was coming from water, ball at inga behind the scenes was that a lot of artists would follow suit. Right, like that, a lot of artists would be joining neil young and Joanie mitchell in removing their music as retaliation and for spotify stranger again and as as we can see, that is very much not the case. They have ended in an petered out after the two of them laughed and there was an a widespread industry sort of upheaval that happened that I think

Some word hoping foreign kind of waiting to happen and that Justino and that other people feared we would end up kind, being the downfall of spotify. So I mean the day like any spotify is going to choose whose making the most money who's going to bring in the Listen errors in its very clear. They have put a lot of investment in two. Ro again in his audience, so that will always get president over the garden. Like neil young and joni mitchell, who of course have their own giant audience is an streaming revenue, but it's not the same. Impacting taylor swift for motor music, a goner like you know, the answer was like actually em off of this an end only doing title like it's. At the end of the day, there were gonna keep making incredible profits from having someone like your rogan on on spotify.

You know. I wonder why this ended like it did, I mean part of it. I guess has to do with the fact that you know, as you were mentioning this didn't, have the kind of impact as if in an artist had just unilaterally say taylor. Swift decided up, I'm going to pull everything now again, you know, ah wonder if that's not because in pod cast wording with issues surrounding this information and for a lot of people spotify still represents a place where people primarily listen to music. I mean that it

it's an escape in a way name, or what do you think? I think part of it? Is that there's a separation in minds between spotify as a as a home for podcasts and spotify as a home for music, not even so much that it's primarily a home for music, but that people separate the two functions and I think they're actually probably, would have been a bigger impact, have more of their had mo more of their other pods pulled from the platform which a couple did and I think had they had more of their big draws on the pot side, which they had actually been putting a lot of money into in general. The music side kind of runs itself right. The pie side takes a lot of development, investment, time and man hours etc. Had they have more of those

I'll leave the platform, I think maybe that would have had a bigger impact, but them the music and pat thing people dont, quite masters, who together? I wonder what, if you were to take spot of, I create a separate podcast platform, call it something else completely right and then just bring, that off from spotify number one. You wouldn't have had this sort of headache for a lot of the spot. by artists, trying to wonder I will look at what do I do like we're out? Why fit into this controversy and end you wouldn't have had such you know: eglon spotify face either riah mean either of you, any thoughts about separating the two or no means brand confusion, melias audio home, whether that be music or pack has, I don't know, did it?

required. All of that cause. Instead of point of the conversation they bounce back relatively quickly, it was a really bad look for a minute like it was a really bad look for a minute and the and the response from management fell short to say the least, but, alas, away a few weeks and since Joe has actually kind of turned the tide a little bit in and pulled back. I think a little on his rhetoric like I, I wonder too, you know separating it like I mean the kind of benefit and the the biggest appeal of spotify is that it's only one place. You know they think with with apple of course, like it's, the apple podcast music, like it's kind of it's. You can have all these things in one place in one app and suffering. That would just be like a a major loss for them to to do that. Hey we're going to talk a little bit more about the economics of the streaming business. On this special edition.

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journalist and former record label executive. I naive I have to ask because of your background, did you ever have to deal with these streaming issues, and you know artist, compensation and all that kind of stuff? That was not my department, unfortunately, because of that, because it is a headache. Mechanical royalties and streaming payouts are not uncomplicated. Fortunately that was not my department, but you know the songs of ev. There come on Literally I private equity partners are record. Companies are snapping up back catalogues from musicians right in and eating and very much like investments. Less listened to a quick live for business. Where's daily. This is actually a couple years ago, but this was a big moment in music industry history. It was back when bob dylan so, his entire catalogue of songs to universal, although it may have taken Bob Dylan sail to get the public to sit up and take notice. song writers have been increasingly parting with their back catalogues over the last few years.

Have been getting more frequent and more valuable trade paper variety reports. Stevie next recently sold eighty percent of her catalogue to a privately held publisher for reported one hundred million dollars. The pot group, a man Dragon saw the rights to their back catalogued, conquered music publishing in august also for one million dollars according to market watch David as we recently admitted on twitter, that he's planning to sell his catalogue away too. money in the absence of touring dolly partner? Is all considering selling assail likely to generate a bidding war according to the guardian newspaper, if you and to be a world renowned musician. Now may be the perfect time to sell buyer repaying ten to twenty times the value of annual royalties to acquire catalogues like dylan's and nix. The wall street journal reported that's up from eight to Ten times the value some years ago, streaming growing exponentially the value of the actual content, the songs promised to continue climbing ready.

Ask you about this. I know I know both your or in new york city, new york, obviously a big music center. I live in austin, Texas and obviously another big music city and How much you hear about this, but there are so many complaints from working musicians, people who are pro- The facts are riders. They ve learned how to work the industry as best they can and they walk away with fragments of pennies. Every time there musics streamed. Do you get a near? Follow that oh yeah I mean I have so many friends here are mean very successful in their genre and there you know their field music and they they tore. Often they have huge phantoms and they are just not making any money off of it. And it's really depressing and am in total robbery of really great art. I mean they just are not making any money off streaming. Why wouldn't So where I guess what the reason I ask you that britney's, because do you think that the sales of these catalogue

are in a way reflective of a certain reality in the music business that industry all day long, even if you're one of these big artists, like stevie, nicks or you know, bruce Springsteen David Bowie, but you can you can stream all day, but there's nothing like the kind of revenue that can be generated with one big sale to a company that holds catalogs. The army mean it's reflective in both the streaming economy. The lack of money that's been made off, but also not everyone can do it. No one's going to pay for hundred million millions well to a you know: a taurine working indie band two has been around for twenty years and has their own pretty. You know pretty big fandom and iraq and to pay that same amount of money to them. So it's

Both ways, that's true, but then again you have certain artists to may not have been commercial blockbusters, but their songs have become iconic and the artist themselves have become iconic, maybe because their authentic, where they have a reputation, is gonna, be a ground changing artist, and I wonder if that's kind of the sweet spot here or are you noticing anything happening, trendwatch yeah? I I think, in terms of that, I feel like it's a lot more sort of like a sea sort of leaning acts, acts that have had decades of experience, kind of have that built in audience were able to breakthrough at a pre streaming era I feel, is where that sweet spot is, and it doesn't necessarily have to be someone like cv, wonder who has a number of massive heads that could be someone like you sad who has certain number, a handful of songs that are part of the public consciousness, but that have lasted the test of time. but I wondered imo, you there's gotta, be some cons this too

it depends on how you look at it I mean. Ultimately, your publishing is an asset. The whole point in having a certain amount of control over of your publishing is so that you can reap the benefits of your song being utilized and leveraged for years to come. So it's not just about album sales because again we're talking about catalog we're not talking about new release. So it's not just about sales itself, it's about licensing and sinks, and you know commercials etc, and if you're forty years, diet or fifty years diet- and you know you have already done your final sore, you known as have plans the reward new music or you do, or even, if you are you now, I know a producer whose whose maybe like twenty years and the game he sought his catalogue as this thing was, I can take the money invested flip it in all. My kids have that cash

and I can make more music, because the thing that people have to remember about all about your publishing is you get pay, maybe quarterly maybe annually, and that pay fluctuates is not the same amount of money every year is not the same amount of money. Every paper period is well how much your songs being used. So now you have a company who's, giving you, I think the average is like. Maybe like ten times the estimated current value of your publishing. You know so basically front loading at a current rate. What you're publishing can be worth for the next decade and now is for them to go and work, and actually you know, do something with that music and make that music earn a return, and you have your money, because at the current rate, we're going with the amount of content we have with the amount of streaming we have. Who knows how valuable that's gonna continue to be so This is really a matter of like selling mala markets up. You know We were talking there. It got me thinking

but something that I have heard some people say. I'm sure you ve heard something similar. You know when what these catalogues to sell for big dollars. You, probably I need to have a will- you need to be as a star or superstar really when you, when you take a look at where the the big money really is, and the sale to these catalogues But I wonder if something has fundamentally changed about economics for the structure, the music industry- and I know you both heard this- that may be the ended. We ve already reached the end of the music superstar right anna, and I wonder if you have any thoughts on that name, I do think that we reach the end of this. It was dark, as we know, is due to start to be on you now. The thing about that is why you hit a certain peak. It can never be duplicated, so you know, even if there is another artist out there will, as the level of fans number fares, that Michael Jackson had, for example,

is never going to be the same as the first time that Michael Jackson had people passing out just from looking at them right and also, I think we know too much about our artists now for there to be superstars away. We consider superstars and that that see your point about the streaming revenue is so much easier to sell more records and make more money with physical product than it is from album, equivalent units and and and that's one of the challenges with streaming. But I think we're probably going to see a bit of a return to physical in general, not just vinyl as a collector's item, but I think the more things get digital. I think we're at a point where now physical was actually a novelty and and we're going to see a return of just a white cat called is now starting to outsell. Current releases was his why Gallagher such a big investment, but to that in our say that bs area are like sue of, though

maybe I guess a tailor or like maybe the first of the last set of like big superstars. I think we've seen the end of a certain kind of superstar. I think we'll still have artists who sell a lot of records. I think we'll still have massive touring artists, because one of the ramifications of not being able to make as much money on your album is that you make more, is that you focus more on touring and you focus more on merch and you focus more on those types of things. I don't think we've so much seen the in the big artists, there's just so much more content, there's so much more coming at people. We have so much more Access theirs is not the same feeling of wonder and ah about any one person view I tend to think you're right bernie. What do you think I just want to Aren't you that, in terms of I think there is a certain level of supervision

the sort ceiling of super exist now, where you can be pretty massive on a specific kind of scale, but the culture at large doesn't like there's no monoculture, you can be super huge. You can sell millions, you can have the consistent top ten singles constantly go number one of their albums, but for the most part like it, don't maybe only a fraction of people who are engaged with her music because they happen to have tiktok or they happen to be part of your giant internet fandom or you know they find you from all these different places like it's so interesting and fascinating, because there are times when you can look at the the top ten top twenty on the hot one hundred and half the artists. Sometimes you know I can show them to a friend of mine. Who is you know,

instead or maybe like listening to a lot of music, just not in the industry and they're like who are all these people, and you know like they listen to the radio. They don't know who they are, because they you can. You can come from anywhere now. You can make your your fandom through anything, and I think like like the harry styles It was a good one because he has a huge banned in one direction, had a huge vandam but like them, many people in my life didn't know. Most one direction. Songs but like didn't take away from the fact that they were playing stadiums is just exists on a different plane than some one. a girl bianca who have constant number one singles and two existed in a time pre streaming where they were the culture like these? Are the people that lake, if they had another one single you heard it everywhere I find that we have a very special opportunity with you both here, because there are probably a lot of people who would like to be able to conversing old bit.

We're a little bit more ably when it comes to music and I'm wonder a wondering if both of you could maybe maybe I'll cut to you. First brittany. I think, since we were just talking there, what about gimme three artists that you would say are at the peak of the music industry right now, and maybe you can tell us a bit why they, why you consider them to be right there and what what makes them famous? Who are they? Oh and two of the three give me three big yeah I mean I think it's really gonna come down to like beyonce taylor. Drake, I feel like are the ones that consistently can sell out a huge venue consistently. It can hit number one consistently create a conversation around their music and they are the people who have who existed pre streaming, who are most easily able to adapt.

Women, culture and I don't think any artists have matched that like they were able to maintain a level of I have. You know massive ness from pre streaming sales as they pivoted to just remain so, and they've been they've. All all three of them have, I think, consistently reinvented and recreate a conversations around being a streaming artist.

at the level that they are at will now name one. I saw when britney said that you nodded your head, so I'm wondering if I should make this harder on you and say: okay, give me three others I agree with her, but what I will add in terms of I'm kind of a a new breed. A new era that I have my eye on is morgan Wallen and in country music, even though he faced a relatively huge scandal early in his career, he still had the number one selling album of the year period and also when he wasn't getting radio support. His fans and country music fans are not a streaming audience they're, just starting to become a streaming audience and have been since the pandemic

the fans went through streaming to support him and he broke through via streaming. I think in the first place, even though he's not been around long enough to determine whether this is real and they're staying power, the that was a very significant feat like to have zero radio support, zero video support and no live performances for better part of the year and to maintain a number one album fighting sixteen weeks and still have is absolutely out of the year is there's a lot thus, it was dark on that. We are often see from brand new acts anymore We are talking about the music business with name a cochran in brittany, spaniels and when we come back we're going to look at a pledge from record labels to make some big changes when it comes to equality, but can they sustain? in it that a whole lot more on the best business wars daily stay with me. Business wars is supported by expensify, expensify he's money? Moving more

ten million people around the globe, use expensive eyes, bree accounting platform to reimburse expenses manage business credit card to generate invoices, pay bills and plan troops from one easy to use up. What am I favour? features is the level of customer support in the focus on the user experienced. Look it so easy to login get set up in are using it right away snap a photo of receipt and submit it create workflows for Groovy sink up, accounting in a sharp, whether you in for yourself managing a team or closing the books for your clients, expensive. Finally, easy! So you have more time to focus on really matters downloads, app or sign up at expense. If I dot com today,. hey. Well, back the best business wars daily. We're talking about the music industry

senior writer at rolling stone, brittany, spanish and former record label executive turn, music and cultural journalist dimas cochrane We started this episode off talking about frustration with the current streaming modeling, an artist getting paid pennies, even after songs are played millions of times. It's more than just the economics, that's causing a lot of people too. Well feel unsettled about the state of the arts. Let's hear more about that and listened to a recent business wars daily story, warner made headlines for something else to the company The one hundred million dollar fund that will support social justice groups biting by once in racism, the money comes from warner music, but also from the blood that neck family foundation. Lindblad nike's, ceo of industrial group access industries, warner, music's majority owner A one hundred billion dollar pledge dwarfs the donations coming into civil rights groups from any other business is still the size of the pledge didn't quell

criticism of warner, music, the company and asked it after grammy award winning musician. The weekend jack It music industry leaders for making sympathetic statements on social media, but not backing them up with tangible commitments. What happened on Monday, the weekend donated half a million dollars to organizations supporting black empowerment, then posting instagram he for universal music group, sony warner, music spotify, an apple music to quote, go big and go public with donations to racial justice organizations. He wrote quote no one. Off it's off of black music, more than the labels and streaming services use his donation as an example, he added that contributions from these companies mean the world to me and the community more than half a million fans liked. His social media posed as hollywood trade paper variety reported. The timing of the weakens post on Monday was no accident. Music in this businesses halted everyday operations and next day to observe blackout tuesday, that in it

it also called the show must be paused. Started by industry, executives, Jamila, thomas and brianna. Adamant It was intended to make those in the music business reflect on the murders of george floyd ahmad armoury, brianna taylor and many other black americans at the hands of police. And to hold the music industry accountable to black performers night I want to turn to you first. How much change did that ultimately bring about as you sort of look at the long term that would have been no shortly after june, twenty twenty yeah yeah While the first thing I want to say, I'm full disclosure is that I'm part of an organisation that put out a report card last year on all the music industry on businesses and companies that pledge John since, in the wake of a soul, must be paused, including warner and also universal, who also established a fine ass, only musical, also established a fund.

And I led the research on that report, so I should say that first, warner actually, as we cross. Your two has been really. Impressive, I gotta say with the work that they have done, a very transparent, which is the most important part on they put out this year there first on sustainable, the report that covered everything from their commitment to social justice and equity too. Some transparency about there is negative leadership to more information bout, whether donations of goin on their different rounds of of grant appointees how the meat, how the money is being used, the programmes that are being established externally and internally and

You know Sony has done. Similarly, universal did similarly the first year I haven't seen as much for the second year for on twenty twenty one, twenty two, but ultimately in terms of how much change is caused. This isn't just about The music industry itself is is both internal and external. There are pipeline and an representation changes that need to happen inside the businesses to reflect better, the artist that they're making money off of arm and that's vessel,

long standing thing, and then externally in all, is about commitments to the communities that are. There are some of the biggest consumers of of this music and is not an overnight thing and that I think what people are really looking to see happen is that is not just the less make. This was made those donation role quite right now and then fall back, but but an actual, sustained change and an this long term. Well, that's just that that shit right, I'm brittany, weird sustain change in the music business. I think a question is certainly at the consumer: thank you. Question is certainly at the consumer level, but also when you're talking about the the talent, the artist tuesday pipeline. Are you seeing sustained change in the music business as a result of what has happened since summer? Twenty twenty, I mean you know the the music industry is almost entirely built off,

lack talent. You know the entire history of the music industry right, like it's always there's always been a level of representation, because black music is the driving force of popular music full stop. I think it's really comes to how black artists are treated behind the scenes. What can really support an artist- and I dont know that there's as much change- and I don't have you know- every every artist contract in front of me- I am that a lot as much age, and they don't have. You know every every artist contract in front of me, but I am sure that a lot of labour contracts and requiring contracts for newer, younger artists, especially coming again from the tick tock age, will receive a lot of really young artists get sign to labels, because

There are blowing up and have these small, phantoms and you're not really sure if the labels are providing the type of support that is really needed to create a long, lasting, queer, not necessarily a clear built off of one hit, but that's gonna dip different for every single person so hard to really tell if they're doing anything as providing sustainable support, and you know a kind of idea of giving artist. Longevity is giving these artists some sort of actual career. One thing I was gonna say is that all three majors warner, universal and sony have started programs where they are waving, that, for that is over twenty years old for their artists, which is a really big deal for legacy. Artists, let's say never recouped and so haven't been able to get paid off of licensing were saying six cetera so now that it's gone so cause cause. One of the things that people are looking at is not just a new artist, but the artist who maybe haven't had a hit in a while and,

You know make enough money to sustain themselves later. On in their career, etc, additionally be did independent? You know unprompted audit of all of the publishing contracts that they apply. Over the years and little more other companies to do the same. Cop that might take right now I'm real pressure to change. The way that some things are done. The industry and I think that companies are being responsive in a way they have been in the past. I why why do you think that's happening? It is it? Is it because of a lack of a level of caution? Do you think that's happening it is it? Is it because of a of a level consciousness raising. Is it because they're trying to appeal happening out there, there's a general level alone, love alone kind of fed up in his for lack of a better word that swept through life

the level of kind of fed up in his full hack of a better word that swept through black and brown communities summaries im twenty and I think it was a combination of factors. You know nobody wants to be on the wrong side of history and in the more divisive the country gets, the the more clearer lines are drawn. I think- and you know summers when he's when he was the most sustained and abroad civil rights movement in us. History gone beyond the movement of of fifties and sixties, so if there was gonna be a time where you gonna be responsive, it was going to be now. I think the difference is that you know previously.

One was our modern era. There have been times when the industry has been called on. The carpet for racism is happen, but it happens once companies hire some more black executives and senior level. It goes away the same things repeat again. This time it looks like there may actually be. You know a sustained pressure from people in companies from artists, etc. Artists are more concerned about their ownership, they're more concerned about their equity, to more concerned about their contracts, and was, I think, also may be a change so and in man of the The concern and lawyers are concerned in everybody's kind of waiting, so I think I think the pressures on a low that hired is only around ain't. Brittany seems to me that this is not just that the artist and more concerned about this stuff. It's that they now have options right I mean if the labels are giving the artist's what they need. There are, a variety of other platform through which one can promote oneself object. People know how the industry works a little bit more. Even if you're, not an artist,

lingo. That goes with it that for so long had been sort of gay kept by the industry and even from the artist them so. a little bit more. Even if you're, not an artist like, I think, even if you're, you know a lot of the kind of lingo that goes with it, that for so long had been sort of gate kept by the industry and even from the artists themselves, and so I I think, there's been that shifting conversation where the labels become more often the villains in terms of the music industry and have sort of there's been like an idea that first so long be inside you. Able was the way out and the way up. But there is so many ways you can make music from home. You can create music anywhere. You can do you know you can look your own tore, you can sell. You can put your own music on spot, you don't need to have the cities or vital record sprinted. You can upload it yourself, like you, don't need that. The middle man if you dont want it. Of course, the label comes with resources that not everyone is able to.

Well done everyone's able to pr self promote the way that some artists are able to self promote, not everyone's able to gain a you know a million listeners overnight and become like the next sensation the label provides. You know a lot of marketing and promotional tools and finances that being independent doesn't always provide, but at the end of the day, like you know, you can't you can do it yourself to a certain degree, but of course it is more often than not going to be a struggle, but I think because a lot of that language has been democratized and no longer get capped. I think that that's why you know people know they're worth a lot more than they knew decades ago of what an artist can bring in to accompany and also the service that they provide. Brittany, Naomi y'all have been so generous with your time, and I want to maybe I dunno, maybe stream a little bit of music or maybe maybe getting the pocket or in the group. stream a little bit of music or maybe may begin the pocket or in a group or something and I'm curious ready when, when you're on your own, what do you like to listen to

I I've been listening to like a lot of nineties house music. Even before renaissance came out, I had just been listening to a lot of nineties dance music. I was we're not like a a ray of light moment, robin as, of course, like I mean I've, just been listening to a lot of nineties dance, music but of course like renaissance. If I'm listening to a lot because it feeds into my nineties dance music. and that's been ongoing ever sure who hasn't been listened to it. I know what about you. What are you are you listed on amazon, Eightys and ninetys pocket parson on there must be used by my firefly sat songs last year. I think we're all release between ninety, like eighty, nine and ninety two, so when I say that, as far as they like Mary j blinds alot of boys, automatic verily, that's where I live. That's that's my cut them up, but also definitely light renaissance again, who ass night- and you know- sometimes I play his eyes again last night, and you know them

I, like the army playlist, when I'm one as he was new. We ve been talking about the music industry when I want to see. What's new we've been talking about the music industry with nyima cochran and music and culture, journalist and former record label executive who helped build the careers of some of the biggest names in music, also britney spears. Have to ask before we let you go brittany working. We find your online I'm. You can find me on rolling stock I have to ask before we let you go brittany working we find John lie on. You can find me on rolling stone, tat com where americans live and on twitter at o hate me, And oh hey name overtly revalue online are pretty much live on twitter at name any I may and name of cochrane dot com will direct you to any other little things. I've been doing thanks Much for taking time to talk with us on the best of business wars daily has been a real treat for me. Thank you. Thank you. The music bounds of the most fickle ever is not just the ups and downs of popularity and styles, but the infrastructure itself has historically proven so tied to technology that as the pace

picked up in recent decades. Finding a way to monetize the growing opportunities for creativity has proven to be an ongoing challenge, just like the hits themselves. What at about the industry. Today likely won't age that well come tomorrow, but this much can be said about the torrent of technological bacon in the music industry its tilted toward. The stated that the gatekeepers couldn't hold back the rising using tide of new talent unleashed by the very digital forces that threaten the labels own survival. The story of the music and labels: own survival, the story of the news industry is unfinished song. And we a long way from the final verse. We'll see you soon. On the flip side, the.

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