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I'm one eight hundred gambler or visit the ringer dot, slash rg! This upset is brought you by an awesome product bows Are you ready for the real, a sound ever both immersive arias breakthrough, specialised sound them it's wherever you're listening to feel crazy, natural because takes where you hearing at your head and places it just in front of you for more richness, spaciousness you weren't wearing headphones at all. It's a totally new experience that lets. You feel your music like never before both immersive audio, now available, quiet, comfort, ultra headphones and year. Buds died in deeper at both that calm, slash spotify, whereas about you by the way- or a podcast network where I put up a new rewatch balls on Monday night, one of my favorite movies, the last thirty years. It is the thirty year anniversary this month of this movie, a bronx tale just an all time, classic with lots of life, lessons being shot fantasy, chris rock band Nathan, who broke it down from us two hours.

And I had an awesome awesome tat- we also have my birth is next week. So is do big birthday movie, and even more excited for next week, so there you go. Ryan reseller who has been on this pakistan couple months, but he has his own podcast and guess what the package is travelling to oxford, mississippi next Friday September. Twenty ninth before as you all mess, it's can be reseller nephew, kyle steve, cerruti and special guest band at Latham. I dunno, if you do this, but bands from Louisiana is only mentioned that, like maybe two times the show, starts at two local time and you can get your tickets at the lyric oxford dot com once again, the lyric oxford dot com, so there We have an awesome pie. Gas this week asked rivers on for the first time ever. He has his own podcast here on the ringer ba show, but we talked what it's like to hunt for a contractor in the summer would have

the oak edge near fanaticism and there's a million things. It's really really get. I kinda just said screw it that set this package is good enough. Now, I rinse the berries when the ringer we did some qb rankings. In some qb argued and last but not least, mag chris ryan. We came out its outcome. In the wintertime and That means as yet another sport show has not made it so why? What are you doing wrong? What could they had? No differently? We broke off down. It is on next. First, our friends from roger I every society here, my dear, he has his own package that has been really fun to the rear. Pakistan

you're a buyer. Beware package. We have like there's like eight hundred per park asters now, but this is, I think, one of the good ones. Thank you, yeah there's a lot, yet we do the yellow, Do the bunch. When do we have clear par, castor beef subject, that's gonna be the next generation and re people just lab and shots at each other. It will eventually happened. Because guys who saw opinionated by nature that those those lines will be crossed out. Imagine policies and you start to see that a little bit. I can't wait one of the things I liked you ve said some stuff on your part that I just feel like. I I haven't heard from players, and one of the things was about this player. I've been error that were in where just it she's become such a huge part of the game. I took five weeks, this summer and was in the mix of just talking about it and kind of decompress format, and just

was thinking like man. I think this is my least favorite part of the job now cause it's content I feel like I have to do it and people seem to care about it they care about the topics and insight, whereas dame gone now on us and in but, on the other hand, like footballers really have this. We all of football. We just get to watch for bomb people on their teams nigger and in basketball. This has become the number one thing we talk about where the media, These are coming, unlike what two weeks so we can have- and this is to be what comes out of the media days. It's kinda yadda surrender. Oh, what did indeed say in its all about whether a guy I leave or not what what's happened had we end up here it's a reality. Tv show now. You know it's it's crazy, if the player you want, you want the power to players hands you want as much as possible, but you also don't want it to get to a point where, like it's been counterproductive to just like this,

the city of the game, we have so much going on. Now that has nothing to do with basketball and its status as a counter productive, and I bet. I took a lot of heat for that good and bad. A lot of people agreed with me a lot, but then, when I alluded to guys just asking out of a contract and not wanting to play and band, people are calling me like a company. Men are all type a different stuff and all I was really trying to do. Who is it no other aspect of life in no other job? Can you just change your conscience? and just say you want to move or go anywhere else you have to you know: do your duties have the view side of four years too I only got a contract in year, one. You can't be like Emma stone at the camp. Unless I, unless I go somewhere, I want it just doesn't. I don't think it's I personally. Don't I don't think it's a good look for the game. I I though, and all it does. I think a lot of times in long run is hurt us and c b ideals

with owners and stuff, and you have certain guys act of my staff and again in the long term. I don't know what this could end up being as it psyched were headed towards again in the sky. Pro player, I won't play, have as much power as possible, but like I also want, as players to be responsible in the obligated to do what we're paying or getting paid the amount of money to do, and I dont know I did it is hard to resist everything. You see an immediate, and I was just drama that not more related, and you don't see that not a sports, in fact really none but ours you right Will you made it made the key point? The reality show aspect of it. I think this is where plays as it plays, with the twenty four seven, psycho, where we are the sba in the cycle of all podcast ass, that people put out every day and it forward where is, and by the way, I've I feel some are complicit in it. I know I've led a bunch of podcasts like whoa. Look at this and wonder: if he's going to leave it's gonna happen. I was tackled by unison.

The june early July, because it's part of my job, I got really don't they This is gonna, be there in a year, and I think it's time you start talking about it. The brine his last year in cleveland same thing here buying houses in l, a was pretty clear who is coming here is that we have talked about this. I don't really know what the fixes, I think is the thing that scares me, because grown up with this. You know, and you know, I'd use, its older than I am, but I think I've, my art with the ambition amerika little bed your dad's by incorrect how that kind of a bomb that some mr facing in the old days it was I this is a business Never now get traded, its cut throat whatever ray, and that was an awesome and then we come. Moved away. The players have some power to announce its Equally, we would still have the situations like the murderers.

Being in toronto and they just a good at him and they traded him, for. Why was I thank Otmar thanks for everything will see later injures out and its again, that's a business. So, on the flip side business for the players too. They want to be in the situation that you know. They they can make the most money, be the happiness happiest. So I get that, but I never thought it should be the dominant story, and I feel like that's where we're going you play with your kids. It is incredible and who won the tide only just disappeared whenever, but we never saw him again. He's gonna come back nobody's gonna by them again, but it's almost like the guy's getting the most attention now the people are unhappy.

Yeah and that fundamentally, is a bad place to be as a league. I think, yup, oh yeah, that's that's! That's! Where we're at it's. Whatever gets clicks views and attention and a lot of times, people don't want to see what's working or what's happy, they want to see, what's just by nature, what's wrong drama what's going on and- and I I'd have to agree with you just from the standpoint of obviously, when my father played during that time period. The way players retreated- and you know just dealt with on a business as In fact, obviously, like you said, it's not okay, but if you fast forward to today's time you know what we're getting paid everything's guaranteed. You know, I'm all for the power of the player. I just have an issue with guys signing long term deals and then in year, one or two in the early part of their deal, just because they're unhappy, saying that they're not to show up to work, and I just don't. I just don't like that, because no one else,

is that no one else has the freedom to do that. It's only it's only the superstars. They do this. By the way. Anyway, I mean no no mid level player would ever not show up to work to get his check. Even though we we we would have won. We had Jae Crowder. That was our only word, member, that that's the that's the only one. That's the only one that may or may not have heard of me missed like two years or a year and a half of playing good basketball like he could have been another midler, because at another mid level I mean who knows like that: definitely hurt him because he signed for the minimum. After then, it certainly didn't work apps and that's what's it's just like you know when you see that across the board and It's one thing: if we had like an isolated incident, this is like every summer now we have two to three players who are doing this weather. It's like nah. I want out. If I don't get out, I am not showing up. You know it's just like that's just I buy that's just by law and by like by principle it's just raw. I just don't like it. You know what I mean, and I understood the only one that gets a pass for me is Damian just

as he has been there for so fucking long excusable. I mean she's been there for so long now we can swear in this pack astra. Let him fly oh shit. Alright, now he's been he's been there for so long his duty there that I'm ok with him asking to be out of there, afraid of him. Only saying miami you, you know- I mean I don't know, but I'll give him a pass. Ledges cause he's done everything to possibly do for one team, but then you see, like other players, doing it. You're just like broke moment like where does this? Where does this shit end? You know, so it's just like it's I I'm in the middle cause. I want all these players have. Thank you said the martyr wasn't that you can be traded on the drop of a dime and trust me. I know I've been traded, cut, wave everything in the book and it's not a good feeling, just like you being this discarded. Where was the one that both the when I heard the most dynamic actually hurt your feelings, the next and the next one method me for a little bit does I was having

some really good success there early on and it just felt like the whole time. I was there. There are waiting for me to either play weller something to happen, so they could bring endemic. That's just how I felt you know what I mean and I understand that was timss. Guy tibbs was on his always been a derrick rose guy. I totally understand that and he p under him exaggerate, but in I was brought there from my understanding. He wanted there from the beginning and leave. Rose color with my direction and when I came there just did feel like I was ever really. I don't know I just felt like it was. The cars are stacked against to go now. Soon as an opportunity came where we lost a couple or if I did play a couple of games or like naturally, so it was just an immediate convert: hey you're, bringing a Derek outside you mean in it, for you know, I'm in denver, which was great, but still that debt situation really bothered me and I'm out

what about not being able to play in front of the the knicks fans I never got to. We played that year where the arenas were empty. So it's like yeah. I got to play for the next four. Twenty thirty games, I never played an amnesty like crowd and that that can bothers me a little bit, so you got by the oak it. So I did That was incredible. Everything happens for a reason right. I've always told me by what did you see it? had like lily. That might have been the worst at that time that it was so rough. Are in d c, when I played there and then out of that, I ended up playing for houston for three years were like chris and James, which was insane. And then at the next, the jewish and oppose yoke it's so. This is like That is the objective I like you we'll tell you where I'm going to be this year, how's it going to go down like as a journeyman. It's just you, you just don't know you just kind of have to roll the punches but the thing is you, I feel like you're, better than Journeyman, I'm not I'm not just saying this because year, you you seem like you ve had a disproportionate amount of bad luck,

with where you landed or wet. Last year I was lodged in Minnesota. Gazelles was written for you because your package with us, but you are super important for them for like six weeks and your closing games games for them, and you you you. I thought you seem like you important for them, even even on the sidelines and soda you're late, though the way better- and you were talking about in your pockets, like I finally figure to be the wily veteran like it's. I found a place for me and then you get sick and you lose weight. And the moments gone and you never, you never gonna get back, but tat was digesting my bad luck. It was It's so weird man. I I have. I remember like last year, multiple times I might call him agent like bro. Actually I've found that I found a really good spot here. Man like I really I get along all the guys, Anthony Edwards is like lily. My brother man. I talked to him all the time whether I play there are not adding care, like I really like that. Did these attacks the player I gotta lotta younger, yellow affinity,

and they are by no means him. Collyer, like yes, my god nazis brought media three different destinations million. For so I do I just like I was a home. I was counting a kind of going back to the summer signing back there, in fact I was gonna, be even a an issue are a thing to where they lived in a different direction, just because I out play, what I even got paid. Anyways vernal taught me: I got a non guarantee contract and I am finishing aims for them and on guard the best players that every night I know what I'm not playing on, who allowed, in the best the entire game like being positive influence, what our play zero them before game behaving like a boy at once. A word, It's alright! I got you, I talked it out I'll, be involved in every time out, stand it up and then the next game he would come to me like hey you, gotta start you gotta guard Jah, that's a hell of a yes, not normal. Falada put you mean, so I thought I handle that pretty. Well, seems like yeah man. I've had the weirdest. Fucking luck,

the aim in the ironic thing about Israel's everybody always talks about me and my entitlement for like me and my privilege, just because I pay for my father for years, but the reality is very like I was in a late and I am still, but I'm eminently score that got drafted to a team where I wasn't supposed. Why wasn't even what in a position to do that. You know I was in new orleans and then from there. The second team I play for was my dad and I can only play so well there, because I obviously with him coaching and that team that was set up a blake and chris and jj I was supposed to only in going to be a role player in that team. But from then on out now mine niches carved out, I'm roper, well from there to Houston to DC whatever I am. The cards are already dealt so just it was always then we're from ITALY and I'm always is that minimum guy that's gone places and ended up playing twenty five minutes ago and alone, the minimum and it just is like the craziest thanks embryos talks about these things that happen.

Given to me, but I look at players all the time who are making so much money. Don't do half of what I do, and I hate saying this stuff out loud, but it's the truth. Bro, like I dunno how's, that really like put then I just I feel this way, No, my core. I just can't complain, discuss who made a complaint edward we make millions pay basketball knows that if a sorry for you ve, no one cares. We're with a millionaires my dad so yeah nobody death. He wants to hear from you complaining, you know I mean I just shut up just keep plan in an unfair. I am, I am blessed to play basketball nimby. I so I, like you, said I have had a little little bad luck, dumbest way, though my it might be a career, then the left will even you end up on Denver and they're, not one hundred percent healthy. When you're on that team, you didn't end up on the team this last, that would have been the most fun damages, the exactly I missed about. I missed it by one year, like the area I get traded. That team I start button We are on a ten day and end sign of starting. We beat portland first round, I'm starting to guard

Where will you be that that was the last year? Portland was together with Damian and CJ, and all them yeah and the next year we pay their gabby lost it, who we lose too. We lost a gaunt state and they come all comes back, and I know I know I play one game of Jamal man. I missed I I I talked to Michael porter, Jr and Eric Gordon those the guys I pretty much mainly keep in touch with now do about that all the time it like the hit, the night they want their library. Bro should be here. Man like the still weird but you're, not a part of this. I know my teeth say, will bar none at all three of us left that that year it sucks, but I'm happy for anyone Angela the thing the thing where the stage europe now you know I always judge I, like winning prayers. I can see in a play officers like a vast gm does, the only whereas I would even consider reg, could somebody- and I think that spend the secret. You know in some ways the woods worked with miami they. They just look at these guys like it. When they talk about he culture, its really like. Can you being a play officers?

Do you do you know where to be on the court? Do you know what to do? Do you know what your limitations are? Do you have one really good skill, you know that's above average I can help us. Can you switch on fancy. They think right. You can do all these things, so I kept waiting. I thought like Boston, Denver. Miami, they lose gave Vincent I'm I'm thinking like Austin is going to end up on one of these contenders and now this season, starting in a week enough yeah, it's crazy man. I've I've had to like really tap into just me, being patient and understanding, even though like it's hard to understand why I'm even here it it's also because all I do is talk to people and they're like how are you you know? Are you outside right? I'm I grow up. I knew the answer. I'd tell you, I don't! I don't know at summer league and said that to you- and that was two months ago on a team yet exact, and that was, for me, I'm on their working media, stuff and people come up to me that way in our eastern platinum. I still plan, as I promised, are you.

Yeah, but like it's just cause, they see me doing media and stuff. Now I guess you can't do both. I don't I don't know, know you can do both then you are going to continue to, but let's all take a break. I had this huge, a theory that I've been saving that I wanted to throw at you so we're into your breakup but here it is at the end of the week off right, because right now, customers can get a no sweat same game parlay for thursday night football just place it three legs same game. Parlay in this week's games, the jobs in the forty banners and you'll get bonus bets back. If you don't win france since We think the niners again take it easy. I mccaffrey this week. Maybe a doomed allege mitchell over for rushing ard, serve any time tv, something that, with the niners just to win the game You can knock yourself out all over the place on fanduel nfl, same game parlays the perfect way to combine your bets for a chance at a bigger payday, build your own or choose from one of the popular as gps, pre built for you and fabulous top rated sportsbook app

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team usa purposes who the sky best guys were some just think it from team you I say: what do I want? What type of players I want? Who fear is a little different than the nba who makes sense for the olympics next year, for you grab six guys. And the things you're looking at her leg. Can you switch on defence? Do not play without the ball, can? Can you play off people legs halliburton and reads were perfect for them. Right. Aunt was no better than I thought he said you get athlete. He just figures it out at our peril. Its moments. Bridges was like that, but I started to think about what. Somebody succeed in the nba in this day and age, and I am thinking about the superstars. We have and I'm just wondering I don't wanna, say it's a u cultures far, but like a lot of these guys at six in the stimulus its new stood out in some way and who made sense in the infrastructure? Are people had these atypical backgrounds differ

and what you had grown up as best buffer aunt was a footballer right came in late, aegis, He wasn't in that plane for five years, we weekend and six different turn a man's unjust, jenna teams around how burn you know somebody was a little bit under the radar ends up in iowa reeves, you know, just a complete afterthought. Bridges was a guy that either He grew in as junior high school. He grew like six inches and became one of those guys okhinnah. Resolving There's that work in the EU structure and as an idle. I talked to a lot of people about this in everybody's leg. We're doing this wrong, and we can't figure out how to change. It were teaching people. Certain habits were teaching them just Six games are weak and were putting unnecessary stress than their bodies were teaching. Them

the wrong way to basically fit in with basketball teammates and then we go abroad and we play these weird teams and they just play better than with each other, that we do wandering leg. If its position through a new era, one point you're the best sizeable per in america but you were in that way. You circa jumping around was that the right way to do it. I think it all depends on how you doing it, and I said it mean when I played for one au program, my entire my thai career. Well, that's that's a typical, though, that that's my point like I played from ninth grade to twelfth grade that important years value, and actually, even before that, it's like sixth grade twelfth grade paper, one program I went to a public school, we didn't recruit. I we didn't do anything we just as me and kids. I grew with down the street mere competing against. You know: oak hill, ST pat. All these teams that have all these kids moving around every semester and it doesn't it doesn't help when guys are

trying to find just the perfect situation for them to get off and shoot shots and that's what ends up happening and it's a lot of it has to do with parenting parenting. They are. Everybody wants their kid to be a superstar and I totally get it understand. Have kids myself, but you know, Why is my lobby? We Bobby should be the one shooting at the end of the games where the gimme its ability to reset my kids, you a new team. That's what happens. We have I have an au program right now. We have a kid that does less than he was a talented kid on our team, but his dad. What felt like he was being overshadowed by another kid on our team, who became, who played really well this year? That's just it if he can't play good players here, how the hell is he going to play If the players in college in Libya that logic right there is what's flawed and I'm all for kids getting paid in high school and in college and I've I've expressed that do, I think it helps. I dunno that it's too early to tell it's tough, to tell kids what to do when they can transfer and there's no fee. I mean these guys would just transfer now in a drop of a dime

If the kids in four different colleges in five years, the transfer portal, their kids are making more than her college, then they would make even overseas, so you can't get through to them and if they're getting paid they think by if by law in their my whatever their doing, is right because they're making money for to decay doing anything wrong. So whenever I go on is working so the learning curve there it's a weird time, and I noticed this with my new dimension. You didn't mention the college piece of it now as college card sports is basically self combust thing, we're losing, might these role model type of all school coaches were inside, the teacher, the fundamentals and you might wanna hear what they tell you, but later in life you're gonna realized. They were right in er Are we lose, and that is why I now at an even talk you can't even talk to a player you kidding of by both what are they demand using violated? That's just how what's the fellow everywhere about when you went to college man, they all of coach had your life by the balls

as you are, recruiting you and then all of a sudden as they wait. I thought you liked me the next thing you know as you practice, the nice fucking pussy I'll, be like that. And you don't realize in a moment, but like she was trying to build a man. He knew I had one year there. He knew was leaving after year and he's like you are not ready mentally to go in. Against grown men cause at the time when I came even in two thousand and ten guys were like thirty to thirty three now the age, these guys, like twenty two per that'd, be so young. Now that it's like it's like a branch off of college basketball, it's insane every players, twenty three twenty two! I noticed this cause it over the years as I've got into these lock rooms. The conversations that are being had you like mad, like these- we are talking about this still like this, that less where there s a, that point airline, I'm just glad there having conversations that their noticed all their phone.

That silence is usually based around upon the like huddled around a girl looking at this this net? It's just like it really is a different age, and now college Coaches- I dunno what you could say. If you go too hard, a player can just make a fuckin I'm leaving. Oh dear, I might say, would say you have a fifteen year old son right now who is as good as you were when you were fifteen? What would you want? Why would you want his next five years to look like what is the best way to produce a really good basketball player? Who knows play with other people. I'd want to go to adopt your college to where he's playing with other touch. Your town, for how many years he's right. If the one you could go, I mean I'm not, I feel like I'm, not one guy says that you need three as a college, that, if you're really good come back, sometimes hurt you, they all randal eyes you they they start eat you grant. You know here Does he have to go after one year? If you have a really good freshman year, you almost happily because then either have to play much

your software you're otherwise restock drugs such as like that's that sets a shaky situation. What I would want him to go to a major school and am at one of those guys that that I think you have to go to a big time school, but if he's a big ten player, I wanted to play at other big time players. If anything, it just seems you already right there how to play with other players, because then you get to league and you're playing with not only players are just as good as you you're playing with some. As there are better than the first time you gotta team, you will. I can't do that. Guy does never even my first year playing with guys- and I was like god, damn it guys really good man like, I can't shoot that far like I, I can't shoot like that off the dribble like that's just in it just it pushes you to third, to get better so that that probably the way your honor with I'd be at with an oath he earned the g league and all that stuff? I don't have a problem with it, but I'd rather have my kid: go, go to college man. Go, go, go play, go, have fun. You do what you say the second year, god, no, no! I

work is crazy. I was more tailor made for the gay. I just ended up being a off guard play an elite, no punishment, I ran being like one of those guys that is in a spot of work. Catchy move quickly, and the guy and then an airline use, and I got to really kind of deal the ball stuff but what unfortunately may went to was. That was a classic man. Probably not the perfect is that it was the worst situation that could have been in and out We cannot always there's. Four people are now so you get drafted you out of anymore. I got drafted, never ten in any time. You're like a lottery busy. You know you're good. Somewhere. I would say eight out of ten times, usually the red carpets. I don't wanna, see the red carpet rolled out, but, like you already got a spot they're going to put you in you get to go play. I got that, but I was also drafted with the number one pick in the draft Anthony Davis, so the team

rightly so based around him and they brought rebuilding iraq. Bottom at secondary were revamping our team. They d, and here we go yet and we were really bad, and then they put me off the ball, which was fine. He wanted me to be more of a defender and like, I remember a game. I did like a step back three and I got my taken out. I guess that's your game. We don't want you to do that here. You're, not you know, but I just wear my confidence like little by little, just got worse and worse and worse match like I'm in a game in unlike taken and hesitating, and at that point you're, fucked man like you you just now. Best one reading everything you were saying about me. You know all this stuff, starting to kind of like turn and then the last like half of the season. I start to really finally get it together and, like start putting some games together and fifteen sixteen, one game. Twenty seven, twenty two like a strong play. Well, I break my hand and I missed the last twenty eight games of the year. I go into that summer and this is the most important part I go into that

and they're like hey, we're going to bring you back for summer league? We know you're a lottery pick last year, but we're gonna bring it back for somebody to play just like three or four games, and if you dominate, you know, you're done, I I I worked I heard that Somerville I mean I lived in the gym and I came back and you could actually go look at. I went plate assembly with the pelicans cause. We changed our team name and I dominated I played really well and I'm pumped man, I'm thinking like you know. This is the future for me in mind, you I know awesome the back of my head that it's not because a week or two prior right before I'm coming back for my like sophomore campaign, like really prove myself they bring in drew holiday and they bring interrogate how I remember they said that they spent a lot of money in the end they pay both of them. So now I they just quit on me. I once season there relic wearing this thirty sending games due to injury and equip is over so now

not starting anymore, barely playing any more allows it now. That's all I got that's death after everything I didn't I Do I got the union be aid really like play in a position where Well, do anything, and then before you know it, I got these big time veteran guards getting paid. Forty fifty sixty minor contracts, we have a mega airborne, tiring andrew all my position and I'm not playing social like it was. It was a huge like That was the first time you talked about humble pie bill. I went from being like the man at high school and I was the man at duke. Then I'm a lottery pick to like I'm, not even playing so we had in Boston, whereas of medical aid night is made celtics tickets, we still do, but they get shot number three enron, mercer number, six rate and patino is the coach its first year. He's running the team, like he's a college coach and is a maniac in their pressing in their doing other stuff and chauncey. Clearly was something right really,

yeah. I had other strengthen evelyn, it says I'm already, and he had definitely carried himself a certain way. It's like this guy's something, but you could see his confidence start to go like this rate in game fifty. They trade him for Kenny Anderson and he goes think he goes made toronto, the denver and ends up in minnesota and just bouncing around my dad narrow is like man, I dunno, if he's a buster, if that was just bad luck like what and then all of a sudden, he became chauncey billups detroit trait, but it took. Four stops for him to get a gonna get situation. Ragged and I do I do fairly. Well, don't understand the situation or about it. We had no idea, they had no idea. People have no idea that situation is one hundred percent, its everything, a basketball. You have acted, zero point. One per centres like I'll give you like that No eight lebron James right does a mouse. You John, if those freaks man, just by physical nature, standpoint like no matter where they go. There's gonna dominate everyone,

molly, even like the low level of star guys do put off some of those as on a different team. Do you even know I'm serious meant by I have been on teams where I felt like I could average like menopause in that situation. I'd be crushing there is danger imo announced, but this is hard relic. This is really hard. If you would understand you, I going to a game, you try missing five games, not playing for dessert. You don't know if you're playing that night and then on the sixth game. They put you in a third quarter after sitting down for forty minutes and you gotta go hit the first shot. You the corner, otherwise, you're coming right. The fucker people have no idea how hard it is to do this and its really hard drives much harder to be a journeyman role played in it is being started, but being a story, you get it Isn't it a game? You got your seventy shots, ten shots, you get a game, I do. I have read with it excited. I had painted pritchard, who I think, has get better

hey, especially animals, yeah, but he's he had the worst situation of just about any benchmark shared, as we were loaded with guards loaded, and he was just what you Talking about. He wouldn't play a couple games this guy. However, we need shooting all sends get thrown at second. Third quarter. Yes, I also think this guy's good day. I was waiting for like one of the smart teams to trade for him, but by the time When he had been the play off says. Is confidence had gone to the point that he did? You know was not an asset, namely as emergency aid in the off season and properly paid pritchard ass for trading, and I'm thinking like he should have asked for a trade that keys actually pretty good that he probably look said the some of the backup guards around the wig and things like tat. Could I be teaching Mcconnell on that basis? I could That's an add on us. That's the worst far is people started. Giving advice on I'm not looking at other players don't pay us players, so how can you not, but it's like hell?

the hell. Am I not supposed to do this? What I'm sitting on the bench I understand? Maybe the situation is, best, but like I'm looking at other guys, not opportunism, say god. If I could, just by could just be there like miami like you pointed out of mine is a dream destination for every player. Like me, because sport does it coach, based anybody off merit or like our contract, he plays who's. Gonna play an artist it helped win the damn game, they're trying to win if they try to win games over there and that's just the bottom line, and if mac did it, they started. Who was a cape vincent who's making at the time was seven hundred k k. Wherever was there the plane heavy starting in it? Also how Larry's? Yes, truth! You got heller. Maybe thirty million is come up the bench and there's not know. Go about it? Not even a word from kindly me. That's just the culture of my music win.

If you go there and play well and happy and fit and you're like badged as a winner and the all those guys got paid this summer. You know what I mean it was just like bad. That's like I would do anything to play for the miami heat seriously, like that's like number. One choice for me would be to play for sbo and play with guys like Jimmy, like falcon dogs. Man, like dogs got their play to play to illness, fight to injury play to soreness. Defend. Isn't it. I dont like where this conversation when someone the south extra gay. Besides, I don't like that. Do in miami read. I had a great sapwood breath ass. You, like a week ago, yeah I knew I know we may do because Richard Barca, smart, He admitted that. That's why I called him, and I was like man I would love to be a part of that. You know part of the team and he's he said a lot of positive things. You know we'll see if that's something that comes to fruition, but I've always loved brown, about amazement, a fan of, and will deal piece of my as if they end up stumbling into this day,

I train who the hell knows. I don't know what to believe anymore, but that's going to be multiple players, multiple play all packaged together for dan, then, all of a sudden they're going to be needing two or three asked river. Exactly over. There does kind awaiting that. That's what I'm hoping it I'm home I'm hoping the deal gets done and they gotta get off like three or four players and then like they have cause. They already have like multiple contracts. Still they haven't side is still free. Roster spots they haven't used. Cars are waiting It is dame thanks, so they got multiple spots and there's not I mean you talk about the best player available. I just don't see someone better than me. That's just I mean, as I'm not trying to be arrogant. That's just where my experience in my playing, I just don't see that at in I I obviously I felt like I should have been signed. In the beginning of the summer, but you know everything happens for a reason. Man like I'm here, I'm right where I'm supposed to be my job now is mentally staying engaged and staying in shape. I have to stay in shape. I have to stay ready that way. If I do get signed this week war, six weeks from ready got so right, we, u we surprised.

DA by what happened with Jimmy in the past this year, like ice cream, he basically Oh god malarkey, I know yon has got her for a priority, but he pulled there. Sat by the end of that I've never seen. I dont know. If somebody could do that's a drought, it either did. I. You know playing with drew and playing against roe he's such a good and solid defender and he's just physically strong I've never seen somebody go at him like that and talk to him like that, and he wasn't talking to drew like they're up three games to one and the game's about to run out he's talking to drew. Like second, in the first quarter and it's early in the series like you've got a deal just got the rest of the series and Jimmy's just add him and he's at everyone. He was at the whole tn and he just kept going and then the next series he kept going at some point I was like yeah. This is one of the most press it runs. Icily was. He knows I quite toronto, ask just what disguise is dominating

but Jimmy was doing it in a more loud wake us he was really bullying, guys, you're, not a maiden with. Surprise me about jimmy the reason I was so surprised by it is because his greatest player Jimmy as he like you, don't think of him as like a great score. I know he's jimmy buckets and all these things, but, like you, compare him to like a paul george, a polished, a very, very polished score, but Jimmy was is getting it done? I dunno. I don't even know how to explain it. It sometimes wasn't the prettiest, thirty or forty, but like he just bullies guys. He just does I know it's like that who I didn't think gets enough. Credit for his pierce was like that for a long time where he could. He could not have a great game, but he could catch fire for a quarter or he could catch fire. Afraid minutes and he should appear shots. He would hit us on that. That work on this are gone and he could boy people like around twelve ten feet away and use As I was thought. I quit the wade, pierce debate when public paul piercing cry

he's. Not anywhere near dwayne, when it's like posture does his best congress was awesome. I say this all the time, because that thing It's become like an actual like meme. Now, where people like, like disrespecting Paul, just cause like he thinks of himself at the weight class, when people don't realize he was like right below that, like Paul peirce was a fucking stud and people forget how good and good discuss footwork was, and they don't have players like Paul. No more man there's that the age of like six, nine big heavy small forwards who had their backs basket shouldn't fade away. Two's, you know stared at play. Most opposition laudable bizarre: I've got bigger, arise smaller as well that now we're all tiny, skinny lanky athletics, like that's kind of more speed ever goin, I Paul was cut up. Then be able you Utah, prime paul pierson in today's league, my god. Yoda, waymore, threes, ducas I think I ll urgencies, and here we were shoot the laboratories on the celts, like almost like a.

Nine a game and about the earlier dance on yeah yeah, yeah yeah. They tried again the system because the inhabitants Also they were a lot of threes people like whoa. This is crazy and now that's kind of what the league's become, but I think he would have fit in yeah. You've even been finding a shoe and Paul they had this it's more like younger generation which damage social media lot. They like dough and didn't see pop in Paul's game. Also, was it flashy and was allowed so, like kids, don't give up you tubing pop pierce? you two de way people know about the weighty any so lax. Don't social media and involved in warlike populists has having drank sunlight I dreamed that I think I'd like you to look at the people. I don't really understand how good pol pot Paul was so nasty. Yet he was. He was really get it. There's two issues. One is that is internet and be a culture we have now has has problem celebrating guys like cam or like ben wallace. People like that. The other side which I've always joked about is the.

Barnett, because you can cut anyone. You know like a two minute clip they all said. Nick can be leg. Eddie, curry was a problem and you just show two minutes attica highlights and then that's all tick tock and ago. He basically did that with any m b a player, but there are certain guards that seem like they were more like steve, Francis defined marbre, those papers that, where it necessarily winning prayers, but you could cut together, awesome highlight package's them in I just I really worry about this whole generation of people that basically think the league started when kobe one the first two titles. Without shaq when the bran went to the heat either. This is a long league that had a lot of great players and a lot of history that you know if your dad was in a million, a million some games and and like I don't even remember Dominique at this point, so I dunno sometimes I feel like the old guy trying to protect the flame. Know that that's what that's the problem is we start talking like this and people don't like these dated multiple

Is this talk down the thirty one? That's why you write it. Why, on I talked to like these young players about like players that they should know like. We were talking last year in the lock room in minnesota, and we were talking about like best scores from minnesota timberwolves. You know I was like yo Kevin Martin y'all sleep on Kevin Martin could really gus gas doesn't like or will I can locker worms can work as a uniform, Kevin morgan. You don't mean you played the temples yolo Catherine Martin is not like tat. We are all these guys like throughout the Brandon. I'm thinking of all his dared like and that that era of the nba is like a lot of that lost with like this new generation? They just they don't Tapping- and I guess I did because of my dad- I I maybe I don't know I just that he has got what you're laying out is the mba's biggest fair cause. It's just people you're playing with its under twenty five june,

in general, whether they're, actually watching games or whether they're, just like my son, who loves sports and play sports, but doesn't watch games and gets all of his mba. Now it's through like tiktok and youtube videos. Uk slices of banks and highlights and uk he ain't uk ratings to kay ratings, incredibly important for my son, it's the warning ever man because are made by, but you guys were picked last and Jim class and their better around you're making ratings based off of stats. Once that's the only dictates, I'm a situation, so you giving someone a sixty nine rating when he's in a terrible situation doesn't play it's just the dumbest thing ever. You know what I mean. So that's why it's stupid to do that, but kids there they they like. Look at two k like I get this all the time all lay in some of the old man, bigger picture rating and my brother I dont want ronnie to Kay has remained. In short, the writing. I love ronnie, but no man like that stuff's ridiculous. I I just they don't well they that this speaks to the duncan

the duncan problem that we are now in, whereby added Duncan one that that it seems to be a thing like duncan. I I had Duncan over kobe in my book. I still have duncan over kobe now, at the both of them are in the top ten and to the greatest person I've ever had, but Duncan was a guaranteed. Fifty wins the entire. Time is healthy and didn't give a shit about a stats and at night Are you not through stats valiantly, average nineteen and ten yards? I guess you didn't care at all about what a stats for an answer they make us yeah and guess who so whatever year, partly because of all the shady needs and duncan I guarantee even look at his box forth into the game. At stamina, and then they all ages light that that's what was so funny when these for using the authorities are don't want ip thing there and they always chastened stats, yoga, just chasing stats. You guys what, as we have done. That was sometimes guys do stuff so easily that they make it look,

like they're really doing it and there are guys you do chase stats. There's a plethora of Gaza can name that. I know they got their play like it is based around the numbers are putting up and then there's guys I yoke it should just he naturally both his hands all game. He just dominates the gay, but he could give a fuck about where they would you like with that's it again gas. It say something to mark, but don't you get fifty and fifty, I can Cut you off my brother, I don't care, I don't wanna until I just go left or something the game play video games like he saw tuned out of that stuff. He doesn't instagram he doesn't have. Whether he doesn't want to. He doesn't want to be famous It only goes over and goes to bars in races, horses. He does not give a shit about nothing but basketball and horses in his fam. It's it's it's. It is refreshing. I've never played Anybody like lead only would be any bit the lakers for the western finals. He just wanted to get off the court though I'm just trying to help yourself by four legs a minute what he thinks they now committee. Go. Get it,

I just want to a bed and you're the best thing about the denver, which is why I I've been telling people they're going to be good for awhile as long as jamal is healthy is because Jamal is very similar. Jamal will talk his shit in the game a little bit like he'll he'll. Do some, like you know, he'll, but off the court you won't see anything about jamal going out, you'll, never see anything about him, smoking drinking in the club. I remember I put up the practice tests and there was like this. Two thousand and six beat up black. Convertible corvette terrible. It is like a old corvette and it wasn't like a nice like date is like a. It was crazy. I'm like who's fucking driving this and I go inside larcom laotse moved a correct and jointly defined he's he's lonely looks with debts issues, I guess so nice. He has no idea like it's like a two thousand and nine has got rips in the seats. It's spray paints messed up. He just doesn't care, he wears like sweat.

If you look at his point again, orthodox sweats in a tea inhibit yoke issues have this: it's just all basketball and winning thing and it stood with it, we're going over there, it's good and and when you're building that team you just have to keep adding people who have that mindset and it's easy for guys to fall on cause. You can't act away or, like think you're bigger than yourself. If the guy averaging thirty ten and nine does how long do you see yoke ej playing? do you see him being one of those guys like thirty nine? No this kind of holding on look not yet no chess, no chance! They do. You think he's one of those he just like bury sanders like he's just out Yes, I have. I have him playing another five six years. How did you ever decreasing twenty eight, twenty nine he had. I haven't playing so like thirty, four thirty, four thirty.

What thirty five m will never see him again. He just got back early isaac on yeah yeah, yeah yeah, I I I don't want to say anything more than that cause. I don't want like put his he. I don't see him playing and that'd, be it until he's thirty. Nine years old for now doesn't seem like he loves playing in the mba now or he turns twenty nine in february the keys he won and he left he was like. Is we got ever parade? I want to go home with her will, We lost the last time I was there. We lost the golden state. I remember like two days later, three days later, I was grabbing some stuff at the locker and I was like yoke here like nah he left yesterday. This is back to this. Like two days he's gone, bro he's out, I I I don't think he really gives a shit about. The american like pop culture and trends and like fame and relevance like those things, is don't interest him like really deeply to occur and the things that do edges him are those things such as this.

I don't see him hang around he's already a champion. Isn't all star he's an mvp. He just signed the second now descent supermax, Toby hobby sign one more supermax and then, as I think, he's out man I think, by like age, but see this. When will get done at, like probably thirty two he'll sign one more, I think by like thirty five years old, thirty five, maybe thirty six, I think he's gone. I think he's you'll just see him and he's gonna be like duncan like what it where the hell. Do you, what is tim ducking doing right now. Nobody knows you know like these. Just duncan wanted to be like that, but I think he had such a loyalty to pop in those guys, but I think those guys we're always worried about how much longer can we at the moment. Have you know I can't remember the name of parker engine obama, yeah yeah, he went yeah, he had exactly. They had a whole different thing than like a family. Over there that they are able to like really establish. Ah, I dont see it. I know I just don't see you

being here. I have one more topic for you in them ago cause I want to save stuff because I'd love to have you back during the year and plus you have your own podcast and may we have a people say cal is the best mba podcast or in the rivers family, including, I know dad? I don't know about that. That's why valleys nothin, though, that out there tat cow is like get her? On the talk about subjects like I can, I know too but she's like that, the secret values yeah Kelly Kelly, always too much monitoring everything. I say they cut. Like fifty percent of the stuff, I say about pods by the way, here's my last topic for you just because it's somewhat topical you played with you play with Anthony edwards. He just and you've talked about him on your pod, so we're probably at the retread a little this, but so he has this team. Usa thing and he just he passes on the checkpoints? Now they don't win, but for what his and his crew's twenty two- the way?

usa, coaching staff they just like there were like, oh, my god, they they just all in love with this guy. He really felt dwayne waited to me in that they, whatever the two point, o version, but there was just was the first time I could find a pigeon him and my head was: oh, I see what this is now. This is like bigger, stronger way you spend time with them, played with them first question and it seems like he has the uber competitive side right Yes, that's real. He did. I wasn't enough yet I think he's a dog. They had everything. Yes, he was the one he thinks he's. He thinks he delusional. Indeed, he thinks it. It beat you and everything he thinks he can be me, and thanks he's never been done before, like we'll talk about like golfer this this and that. And how about I play I'll, beat you, although you ever play you know, might not as to how golf works, but like you, gotta, really be like male figure it out. He goes I when everything I do that's just like generally and its core. He thinks he do

everybody in everything necessary is that he had said that m j bearing people that is lacking, he's gonna come out. First stop Ella heat is always some internet site. We used a point, we don't play cars and the plane. It doesn't play a lot. And then they started getting into play. And next thing you know he is like the bully of the table in terms of like getting guys to play like we just had a back to back, and it's like I'm trying to get some sleep he's a cowboy r and he calls me macaroni tony. That's my that's my nickname yeah. I don't even like it, but that's just what it is. The the whole team calls me he tells me we gotta play. We got my cars we got but like that's just she was to complete all the time. Indeed It is by the way, a perfect, perfect comparison. Perfect comparison, did you ever see fear at any point with them on a basque backward. No, no he's deals israel's to even to the point where, like sometimes it's too much you like. Sometimes he like it so competitive jobs,

for something: that's where that was. That was early kobe, that was the early copious. He wanted so badly. That's exactly, and that's where he's at right now is that's what the usa was great for him to go, play and compete with other players. His growth right now we're delayed, really took that job is when he started dominating on both ends of the floor and learning how to channel his defense to where you pick up the best player at certain times, but still being a defensive no problem throughout the game and in the fourth quarter you guard the best player like learning how to channel your energy without take away from your offense competing on both ends. The way didn't the way led the league in blocks. I don't know how many years for guards like it has that ability to go. Do these things and playmate like that is what's going to take him from being the,

I like that second tier star right now, it's like you, I, if I'm going to be honest, if we're going off the past years, like you put book tatum, that's like top tier guard yeah. You know he's right under that. I think ant belongs in that conversation with those guys, but he has to do those other ones, those other those are those two points. I repeat: Clayton set up just like tatum tatum defended way better last year. You know me in the previous years. Europe means that something that he has to do, and he can't do when it wants to his unbelievable defence, is instead That was a huge peace for tatum when he was able to put the two way stuff as like just really impact. And the rebounded too. That was I even when I watched him you sound like. I will talk about forty guys. This t needs but really good potato man, this team and he would have made a huge difference because he would have had like twelve rebounds and every one of those games. Yet the defense was my next question, because that was something that jumped out in the team usa, stuff where this guy, like an amazing onboard defender, and we had no idea no credible when he,

they also. Yes, it he'll just channel it. Sometimes we'll pick a guy not its use of the best friend the team. At the start, starfish cooking he'll come to the locker onto the huddled like we'll be talking about. No, no! No! No. I got that it does it does it and he'll like say it out loud, like just no one questions it, because we've seen him tap into that when he wants to cut somebody off that waters off. That's what I'm saying. I know that abilities their I'm, not asking you to do the whole game pick and choose your points and I don't need you to be the best best defender, all game. But at crucial moments of the game yeah you gotta be there. I think he can be both. I think you could average four or five assists just stop you being aggressive alone should be averaging five assists and I think he needs to shoot more free throws. I want yeah like twelve? I want him living at the line, but we live in an era where there are no shot blockers. Man, you are the most freakish athlete I've ever seen at the two guard spot. You need to live at the basket and I know he could shoot so there's a healthy diet of both The light broke down. You don't forget a living to pay and just be a dog he really that position

yeah, yeah yeah, I'm with you, because you figure like the checkpoints of being too the impact for mattering superstar and he's business generous one you ain't gonna do yeah. Yes, what is it? What is it I thought is going to right here. Maybe twenty years he has been doing so. Then the next job will be mid twenties when it's like oh, I didn't realize you were going to be the best guy and a final see me a bit like basically what happened to them and then that last step is that twenty seven twenty eight age range that usually like history. Beer. That's the final level about you. We got a yeah, that's it, physical and mental finally kind of one together and then they have like four or five really good years after that. You know that was like the best years. In my opinion, if you're healthy and take care of your body, good luck and all those other things, That's where he has to get to and he's been a hidden gem in minnesota like I want to talk about it, but then doing this say thing you got occurred, spoke like these.

The guy was like whoa, okay, they know now, and I knew he was good but holy shit. This guy's like different than the other guys we got here. You know what I mean and that's that's that's going to be interesting to see over the next years. You know him in minnesota. Long. As you know that was my final question like it is, team around him. The rape people you'd want to put around a player like this, where you have two bigger guys, I'm not even sure if gilbert towns can play together. I know you are the team. Last I'm sure it was. It was noticed we choppy from time to time But do you even one any big guy with edwards? Do you want to keep the lane open for him so that he has as much space is possible to create, or does he need? da parker behind about another answer. It was really tough for him last year to mix up there on the floor. I think I see this year how they do that. I would imagine they're gonna started bags and then immediately one of them will come out so they could stagger them, but one of them, the second you it does the floor. Just has to be more

clear for and he couldn't get to the basket. We talked about his free, throw attempts or lack of a lot of that has to do with just lack of spacing and lack of shooting. This guy was trembling like double teams, lasher shooting failure because he had to it just wasn't the most ideal situated in ITALY. Go back and watch our denver playoffs man. He was unbelievable. You know what I mean like he need a little bit more space, so I don't know how they knew that Karl Rudy Carl has to be better playing the for you. If you wanted to put the fourth, sheriff, then what he did he let go coffee the post nostalgia for the us. So it's just like that adjustment. I think karl be a lot better this year and then yeah rudy, I mean they. They have to figure that out with those two bigs I mean that's just the reality of the situation. They still have both of them. You signed nos read, back at big but he's extremely skilled. I love jamie mcdonald's by the way is another stud Jayden is the real deal so those four you know and then Michael Connelly's, a good savvy guard,

perfect for what they need. You know they don't need anything else. They already got a lot with coral and an aunt and that whole dynamic there between how many who gets what shot in this net so and yet yet MIKE doesn't care No, it's perfect! That's why this can't work. This towns have a bad rap or the right rap cat is the nicest kid in guy at all. I told the kid young man that you could ever meet he's a sweetheart people don't like Carl, because they feel like he tries very hard to be the and if that's the worst thing you can say about someone that is that a bad person, you know I mean the worst quality of a die. Is that he's trying extra hard? So you like him, that just means he wants people to like. You know what I mean

when you really get down to it, when you hang out with Carl man. He's like spices is a big kid, but he's got a big heart he's been to a lot of shit. People forget over the past couple of years with his family and he's had to you know, find out who he is and like this identity that he's trying I find that some people make fun of his voice in his interviews and his game style and the way he plays but, like he's, had a lot thrown at him. I still think Carl's trying to like find this niche of hooey as a good dominating bathroom work, as you can't deny good his years really good I'm. So I do think him and curled- and I told him his destiny- the summer. I observe that back there I dont think came a coral work out together enough. It's something the a art now, like everyone uses by an aunt and towns, yet people don't do it You see film. All the time of other players were the other players. Why don't? I all I'll ever see the two best players for teams. Jim you'll, see here and there, and why

working out all summer, doing hand offs and pick and rolls and like fine tuning this like relationship to where, like when, when november comes like it ain't, even a question you broke. I know what you like. I know where you she well. I know the as you like Could I ve been doing what you all summer? I see what you made a nest like batches, something it doesn't happen specially wanted to get the tourist powers a guard. See what Jamal Murray and yoke each have gone on like that shit is so fun to watch cause they're so good together and if Carl and ant can like tap into that to where they like start trusting and trying to help each other they'll be both better Alright, you can hear Austin on the ringer mbs show, I think we're we're still doing once a week this year, right, yup, alright and we'll find out pretty soon if you're on a team or you're going to end up on a team. I just

I hope it's a great things, but it may not be in miami and then add something to be really athletic. I don't like it I like, and that is what matters most is worse right up to the next to be really met. No, my aim is the worst right now they really they want again, seven our house gesture. That's that's our big. So now I think they feel like they have. The south excited a little bit were now we have brought in his report the unhappy we have poison gas. You didn't play in the world championships causes some. But issue would mark a smart. I was this funny when I hear guys are unhappy guys or make it like. Seven. Eighty million were unhappy. Ray I'm ready to me where I live, I know he's a trade rumours but like is no eager traded. There was a trade rubber, see what his asked traded and then they either that it didn't go through and then, as I know now, we still really like. Yo is one of those. I think he gets a pass. I forgot about that. You're right, you're, right, you're, right that that's different, that is Esther yeah.

I'm not a man you're still, our guy alike, malcolm method, battle. The play scaufflaire even heard nothing Yes, I shared and actually heard the celtics cause. They really really needed them in a couple of those games, but anyway, I asked a good to see you always my appreciation. Your sister, the queen of the ringer for us, always got two she's abbas. Thank you. The Steamer is the serpent the ringer he is on our ringer thou. Shall he writes for the ringer dot com? He does a kubi rankings every week that people lose their minds. I'm so glad end and he says sociability is dead. Just look at the tutor plaza. Any qb ranking space. Is this the most varied in that makes people

More angry than this, unless you would like consulted beyond, say, aired or taylor, swift does have like the only two. That would be worse right now. No one time I said, like Josh Allen was a little inaccurate and someone threatened to shoot me so, like these bullets aren't enact. Oh my god yeah. Well that and the two a thing which too is looked, I was there two years ago, Zana. I don't see it, I don't think he has it. I don't, but then mcdaniel comes in fixes it, but then to two. It has, I think, three concussions last year. Yeah. This guy may not play football again. Then you watch him this year and it's like alright. They figured out how to you say in a way that I, as a patriots Van, was scared of him for four quarters. So that's an asset admit defeat on that. I I don't know if I want a plant my flag on just in Herbert Everyone needs to settle down island yet, but there are these,

aims where he has the ball in his hands to take it and he doesn't and they get a field of michigan such down, which happened in the last minute. Over of this tendency, they get the ball in, does do anything three and out came before us. And shall grounding, takes the sack, but then but he told me how Grady is you are of the opinion in disguise, amazing, but doesn't dense I have to be amazing, where it actual results and wins and losses, and if we don't blame him who are we blaming I? Yes, I do think you need that. I think the one argument you can always you could have made. Even two years ago, before the winds became a thing was that he wasn't creative enough Didn't you didn't, have a dog at em, so to speak, like you didn't go outside of the often create. I do think that that shows up late games. I will give you that but like the other, fifty nine minutes and in most games most week he's just amazingly.

Barely messes up I'd. That's that's the point I want to get through to people every play like every completion. It's usually not he's bob. I know it sounds like an exaggeration. What I see on tape and I think a lot of people. I watched the tape, that's what they're saying too. So you think about like the tennessee game, where they forever. No a tendency was doing they give that they have a lead charges get about that the two minutes left within about a minute. Thereupon, the tennessee, I think they're, unlike the fourteen or fifteen, in theirs, under a minute left intended in the charges of all three time out soft and I had sent to see plus three, and I just thought I was done. I was well with the three time out. They can spike. They can get a first down or not score

and there's just no way they tried the chargers. They're moving down the fed, there's no way they're not going to score, and it took them. I think thirty seconds to run one play. They call time out. Twenty one seconds left a somehow: they botch it. He takes a sack, they end up settling for field goal and To me, that's the last piece for him, because I've seen that from him at us all lack restoring come for behind come back to me, but there's some game management which, by the way, callin more does navvy there. We saw with him in Dallas. There was another and so their own too, but they had both gay. Comes in their hands and they blew it, and I don't know their people. Getting keep can blame bright stanley will be. The next gather gets. And then maybe it'll be Kellen moore, nobody's gonna, blame Herbert because he's so talented, but at some point we need to see it. I do think that's fair and I think that's the criticism you can make. He can't overcome the coaching a fairly and I think that's something with how he's wired like he's wired, to listen to what the coaches tell him to do, and usually like that's a good thing in itself,

in all events, you you're gonna, throw for fifty touchdowns. If you do that, but sometimes you- the godfather that box- and I think that he hasn't done that, and I give you I I admit that, So you do the cubey rankings sound. I were talking. At about mac jones and as they now it's weird a car buddy below average, starting quarterback as edges. That's the insinuation that you're not good at football, but when you do these rankings- and you look at the west in the air, just like from number fifty number. Sixteen number seventeen is probably like the average. You could even extend it, make it fourteenth rates in his average than nineteen and blue. Was below average. I made my less than I only had one two, three four, five, six, seven, eight guys worse than mac, which in that include zach, Wilson, who's worse than everybody. So that means I had Zach I jones number twenty four I'd watson after him, because I don't know what watson's doing this year would happen on ticket.

Who I was all it on and I thought pittsburgh bid them born, see. Boat picket is just been awful to strike games and, if you'd, put way that seventy one europe pickens passed last night they just couldn't do anything, and he really looks to Wilson. I Denver who I have a twenty one. Three lie. He just can't help himself he's going to do eight terrible things in the game. Bryce young, who just doesn't seem ready Let me add on that country about yet, but he seems terror, I'm counting them out. I count him without now. I am obviously joking but like panthers are copyright now, but you watch these gains in struggling because he small, I understand all the other other arguments. Bad opens line, battersea report, but he looks more at least fifteen times game. So far and that's not going away any time soon. The thing that scared me yesterday with them, we look. They have no scope position. Guys he's got frank rank as a code shoe the cue, the quorum coach. You be

whisperer, who is just goes through a qb every year I dunno who is whispering or what is whispering, but what I didn't like was they showed brace a few times at jean the body language expert and to me he looked rattled and scared and overwhelmed and Can't you quarterback can't look like that. Like say we want about mac, but mac at least looks like yeah man, we're going to do this and then he'll, throw right to the other team or he'll miss a wide open guy, but he's carries himself like they can do it. I am with you. Right, brace young kind. I had this look like holy shit, I'm in college. I used this. Did that swirl around move and I'll just run away from somebody, and but that was his thing in college was the poise I haven't seen it. It doesn't work at the at this level so far. I he got this hurry coinciding dimmer for debt. Was the cop you guys we're looking for. I, like, I, don't see the step currie skills out here. What's his version of being the best free point, shooter ever off the dribble rang so it have to be this scrambling and then maneuver ability, but we have

see now yet now it's working procedures shroud, who got question marks about that coming out of college. He's doing that in in the same circumstance in Houston, so I break down after mac and then my final for in descending order, ridder, who other A fourth quarter has just been abominable josh jobs. Is that a start in court bag satisfies fields and then zack wilson last, but I think the field Zack wilson argument is a little closer than maybe people realize cause fields. What was this tat, like sixty percent of his passes, have been basically untouchable or or completely untouchable and the other forty percent are probably screens that if you as greens, play action or scrambles like that's it, that's all we're getting from him at this point for three years. So, what's the fields excuse at this point because now we ve given him. This is

I always got a year to learn the uae fans dj moore. Is there now we've loaded up, and so now it's chase claypool pot, like fault that, could we blame, I think, he's just bad at football and it was clear last year- and I know we overlooked it because of the running this humbling, but he's been a bad quarterback for three years now. That's certainly what I've seen is that as bad as zach Wilson, though, but it's at least they're kind of in the I'm sort of an argument at the people. I have read ahead of back jones and tell me if you disagree, car boot The guy was last year last night against them against carolina you pressure him, he just kind of loses it and gets just. I still am crazy staff and the fact that able to bank taste them Helen and kind of settled things down a little bit at that really helped them. Tannehill was pretty good in that chargers game. He was a second half. I have mayfield above MAC Jones just because

he's played while a damp obey you have him above or below merchants blah labour. To me, I think you put put matter, learn, learn yeah. If you put mac jones in similar circumstances, I think you're getting better production macrones than you are from baker mayfield. You watch that week, one game in brain for has had him the patriots before the twenty eight insuperable, They were gonna. Have I jerk off like shooting advance they had baker. Maple sitting is banned at first ass. He rebounded, but the old bakers stolen. That trust me, ok gets it out, jimmy I would have above mac, but I feel like he's like max uncle. They see age make this same three terrible for us the guide, not expect to have ahead of us is sieges. Drought, and I did not. That was the game that I sacrificed on. Had them all you and you too, about the two other side, six games of Zena India's then special richest and got a concussion unlike about

and then reading and catching up on all this stuff and people are like CJ. Stroud he's got it so would you say he's doing the stuff that we expected bryce young to do like he's doing the the creativity stuff he's he's making plays in the pocket under circumstances where other quarterbacks wouldn't like he was doing like no look passes over the middle, like fifteen yards over the middle against pressure, you don't see that out of rookie quarterbacks, you don't see that out of most quarterbacks, so I If he's flashed enough for me to be, I am buying, I mean well and especially tunnel in play their lifecycle in their game and in general, just limit the tunnel injuries. No, They can name a to add texans receiver. And I added the fact that people raving about among the latter, because that they'll twenty two's, I think europe. Now I want to see it cause no thought of india. It so funny when you have these drafts, were everybody's, got these

widely different opinions on the queue bees attended by the time we get close, the jap Barboza. You know at braces the safest pick you now he's. The boy is now let us, as of now it turns out strata guy. Where do you have jordan love just in this whole max Ah, I haven't like right outside of the top twenty. I would really high on it I was not high on him like coming out, but I watched him in the off season. Like the the cameo appearances and I was like holy shit, there's a lot to the sky more than I expected like real quarterback stuff in the. I get that he's. Also a guy that does no look passes. He looks off safeties. He does honor he's really confident as a passer, which really surprised. I thought there was a fight, the next time that a lan again that I legs they also you know his offensive. Was decimated out from a receiver standpoint. As you might be light, you know you still hasn't had watson who is possibly as being guy jones, didn't plan the second game at that

it fell apart a little down the stretch, it was one of the reasons they lost, but for the most part I like him, ah gee you've always been a. No guy in geno had a huge week two. Is he he's above average for you? Oh yeah, ok, I'm almost willing to say that I take gino smith for one year over jail. Unhurt sea had said this is what people go? That's. So what would I walked me through the case against hurts? Basically you just put Lamar Josh out and that fella offence it would be even crazier yeah. I think you we give him. We need to give him credit for being be the running back, are not the running back. The run gained centerpiece. He does deserve credit for that. I dont think people give them enough good. But I think you can go overboard and given too much credit, we have seen if you put any quarter back out there can move your running games. Gonna get better like jones. Isn't the best runner he's a great straight line? Happily? But u turn him into a real

in quarterback and all of a sudden you like ripping off, runs like a large acts. It then, I think we give too much credit to the numbers advantage that a mobile quarterback gives you like. Yes, jailer hurts We provide that for the eagles, but any running quarterback would provide something similar if you put them in there like tyrod taylor would provide that also wear the great josh Dobbs and I the case I'm higher and hurts than most. But I think the case, if you are going to denim is you know, he's got this awesome offensive line he's got to bluechip receivers. He's got one of the best all around tied ends about the best one, and they always seen These running back said at least fit a certain prototype, or they have speed. He always has some sort of game play

and they're, usually playing with the lead, especially because their defense is always pretty good, and you just can't come up with a better situation than the situations in here's. My question you give the knife best quarterback in the nfl, the best offensive line, maybe the best receiving duo. A great a good tight end a great running game at an operative coordinator who got hired as head coach like what would you expect their numbers to look like you to expect them to look like the second best quarterback in that's? What I think is what's plainer so had before the season. I had my homes, oh and herbert, and hurts as my top five. Martha me was a guy's been bad, injuries, the last two years just got this huge contract of want to see it, and then he was other than Michael parsons, probably the best player in week two. Is he cracked, the top five, or do we extended to where you don't have hurts in your top five but

has he forged himself into that top group d need to see a little more as the we're going to look back three months round bag. Oh man remember Lamar. We too, before he got hurt again. What how does this play out? I mean that's. My concern is the injury thing, but I do think he's top five and I think we saw him the game on sunday in a way we ve never seen him dominate and nfl game before, and I think this is the first time we have the tools to do. He's an when you're, giving and patrick ricard third down roots you're, not gonna. Look like me Annie. But when you give him a real receiving core and a real drop backpacking game, he looked the part on sunday like he wasn't running, he wasn't doing designed quarterback runs he scrambled when he had to, but he picked them apart with, like dink and dunk passes. I think they were there, their nine for fourteen or ten for fourteen on third down The funny thing, though, is because I've heard this are now he had finally has the right receiving core it. Now aguilar elegant brooded for no regular for two years. These terrible they really terrible like unplayable, we're like why they keep pie in the sky and then,

he played one game at the marne, all of a sudden looked at the guy that everybody has keeps giving chances to made a couple of big plays the guy that jumped off the t v, though his flowers here He had flowers on that have failed bomb right down the middle. The fields and flowers made a big planet, but it seems like tat, I might have it he's got all he does yeah. I think I mean I think, I'm in on that one, I'm as a panthers fan. I hate Steve smith comps, because every short, why does he get some? But I think he deserves it like he moves differently. When you watch him, you just need to watch them once one snap and you're like okay, this guy is different cause. You figure they'd spent on beckham. They took flowers that who's the other guy that they rolled the dice with Then they drafted bateman a couple years and for an eight men- and it's like you figure, can they get one of these guys to become a guy? They just one and if he had to fantastic by you, ve gotta get

I'm having visa guy they. I think I think you might be the guy that crazy thing about the game was used. Here they are often some minds decimated since these defence incense see this is a bad spot and it was, opposite, and you know I don't know what's gonna was since either I it's a where's too, for you at this point to raise my biggest riser this week. And he's still not going to be high enough for dolphins fans, but, like he's, he's jumped up three points. The grading scale that I use he's trumped up three points. That's the biggest jump by far from week, one to week, three he's gotten a lot of credit for pocket presence. I think that's looked better creativity under pressure. I think that looks way better. So he's these top ten to me now I dunno, if he's jumped, Matthew, stafford who's had a great year by the way or dak, but he's close he's is closing in on them. I have my homes, Alan herbert Lamar, Our borough, just cause he's, hurt, hurts and then have to our next and I have to add a lawrence because I'm sorry,

Lauren sunday rob you left tackle, but you were dog shit in that case a game that you ve gotta. That was this game. You guys pointed for nine months in you didn't make a play. You weren't going that far. Yet but I think that's where yeah I mean he. He had the back last year against the Ella coopers of vienna fell the chargers. Was great. You know there is some injuries and someone man himself on that, and he had the dallas game last year said: Zadok has done it, I'm with you on stafford. I stafford finally died in the fourth quarter. That second game. I think mainly because seif wicked like sixty times he had felt. Like all decided, he started a gaming near the end there, but him do. But he's doing with these deeds that nobody's ever heard out without cup. The running game, is awesome either inside their offensive line. Awesome nobody at any expectations at all, but that to me,

is the guy. When people are talking about the jets, I gotta get cousins like how do they get stafford? Can they get stafford for a year? The contract may probably makes it impossible, but he's he's still Langen it? Where are you add, on stafford hall of fame talk, because I, like you, after the superbowl I was like. I don't want to hear. I don't want to hear it, but if he has a big year this year with a supporting cast, my ears are open. I'll, just say that so would it he's got the superbowl right, so that helps cause like with the with the lack of a playoff history head how many- how many total yards is that over fifty thousand yards, I don't even know how to translate that into modern nfl vs there before two injured, thirty, four touchdowns, not a lot of playoff games when he's played seven playoff games so that would be the end for them came in one year, as I was the superbowl you're right set out would be waiting is so tough

Neither can we figure out and in this off himself anymore, like there's guys that aren't in the hall of fame. That especially like this, Indeed, in some other receivers, where nobody through the wall that much, but you know there are really good research Isn't some of them are nan, but then the guys from the last twenty five years will get in just cause. The numbers b can tell me has been the seventies wanna put up those numbers. I could convince me dad he's not like you too? I don't think you know that you have to adjust for error that, like their car was appear, quarterback them like John united with numbers overhang well back there. First of all, they're everyone sidney should shit you throw in their dab. No your knees you for over the middle raw because other receivers, which is getting decapitated and they just didn't, play football. The same way as well plotting and trying to move forward and grind it out. So you look at the interception, stats and they're fucking nuts, like guys, will have like twenty five.

Reception in the seas of matter like hall of fame quarterbacks at the stafford one. If he could get them to like ten in seven this year, then I think that's not gonna, say you have him tat. Ten yeah he's night for me right now so brought purty where, where did? Where does he live to see above average average are below average ease below average for me. Still, I I'm sorry. I know the numbers are there, but I've watched both games and he's he's had to make like two plays in both games, and I think we we would be talking about him right now. If they lose that game, if stafford doesn't throw those two picks, the first one wasn't his fault and I would argue the second one wasn't either, but if the rams win that game we're talking about the meat he left on the bone, because he missed like five wide open, deep balls in this game, but we're we're not going to talk because they scored thirty points and they have christian mccaffrey and they have debo samuel, so he just has to hand off the ball to them and they scored the the the score. Twenty five points I I haven't seen anything that makes me really change my opinion on him, yet once

see him like do it in a way that I haven't seen yet I will give him the credit, for I will do that. I've done it with two there's a charisma to him that I think I think helps it see like he's doing better than is, but he would say last saturday, last night was up there with the worst quarter, backing cutting that we had these two going simultaneously in every quarterback was in his own head just everywhere, he looked you to. I was gonna happen. It seemed just as likely there's gonna, be there such another team and then you know, like the the watson piece of it, I know there been a lot of lot of attempts to psychoanalyze. What's goin out that did you know pretty easy to figure out all the other field. Stuff is affected him in some way, but they would different about him than four years ago. Just from playing standpoint, I think its decision making it seems like you stronger he's trying to make those two years he missed in one for every times out there like physically, he looks the same.

Maybe his arm is a little weaker, but like it's all in the head- and I don't know if there's like an easy fix, I don't think it's like a situation where one week he's going to be old, Shawn watson again like these are mistakes he never used to make but We have repeatedly to face basque and the same game of everything nap of wild. I dont know what they do, because the job injury was just such a bummer and so many levels, everybody loves their job. I add I'd like three years and we're ours like my number. One goal was just to get him on fantasy because he was just so much fun to have seems like a great guy bow counts and was peter anything they want to do this year as him in the defence and watson was a bonus and there is some stuff on it less than about without the trade for running back. Maybe they had shouted the terror there's somebody out, sir. You know that kind of all in part committed, so what they built this season. I don't I don't I agree. I don't I don't know where you're going with watson with what he looks like these days and

me. I would look at this more like what we have able. The fancy and watson stupids go. First, the fancy once again lighted five things. Game. Yesterday we were just like oh you're, just not a good head coach, but I I would, I would not put more capital into saving this. If I were that now, I don't you go the opposite way of what you are doing, because I really don't think watson is good fit for that style of offence. I remember when he was on the texans I can't of used to I used to meet the argument that what he was doing like, statistically with more impressive, because he wasn't doing play action, wasn't doing screens wasn't doing like the the easy, often stuff, but I just don't think he's good at it, and now is in one of those offices and struggling. So I did just go the other way and to do do the houston orphans. But everything on its plate and see what happens, I mean your pain and how much money you might as well the way thing he does have is physically he still pretty dominant. Sometimes I co he'll get out a sacks or hill.

If farm somebody away or like somebody will bounce on them and they'll think they had the sack and they just kind of bounce off him, and he keeps going so it's different than Russell Wilson, who just seemed shot like the Russell Wilson and you can bend the stats, but you kind of had to watch that game. He's just shot at on. I don't see how many more weeks he can play is the starter sound. I talked on Sunday about what the deadline is and it seems like after they get through the get killed, this week will be the perfect time just kind of move on. Yet russia's, like old Elvis performing yes, I feel likely hidden these little trying to play they hit, but it is did it doesnt work is well like dijon is trying to be someone else entire. It's not working. I think that's the difference. It's really deceiving cause. We had this with bledsoe before Brady got the job, but but so that this new contract by The in my circles, there is about a year and a half with all the past fans were. Is this guy good? They fight? He can't move, he makes we're decision

in our head. He was this all some guy, but the evidence was telling us he actually wasn't as good as maybe we thought an ambrady came in a team wept and then everyone, the new england, argued about it for three months. What happens when, but so southie should get a job rack and it was a great camp, but so camp I was I was in the brain camp, but I wish it was more because I just felt like whatever we think so is not sure he's that guy anymore, that seems like the biggest mistake you can make with cuba evaluations special with russ like russ's, not the guy anymore. He has no speed anymore, I think I'd like there's like a lag effect with that with fans, especially like Ben rapids. Burger was a perfect example. Two years like you could tell he was cooking.

With twenty in steelers fans were like. Oh, it's, the o c o. It's dolphins personnel now he's like throwing check downs in one second and he can't move it's him. You can't run and orphans like that, and I think that's what we're seeing with rushes like there's. You can't put together an offense with this, like this, isn't a real offense with like go balls in and scrambling around so who's. The perfect. You be argument right now who who's the the one that has on both sides. It is perfectly distributed for these people are passionate. This way newspaper in this way cause. I have an answer, but I have a bench. That is, if you feel the same, you mean like polarizing, I'm in I mean perfectly polarizing, so it's like just these two sides and it seems like it's about fifty fifty cause. I do think there's an answer to this. Let me just give you the answer or my answer. I mean kirk cousins

obvious answer, but who do you think it, but I feel like we ve dragged over the current cousins area and now it's and after love to me Joe Gaza, good one. I was thinkin dec See I like tat more than either but here, but I could argue that jets game his fifteen minutes, there were the looked like was dying to turn into a pumpkin and then jets were just said. No, no, don't worry. It's we're. We're gonna make this easy for you. I still don't trust him and it's funny because on any less he has to be he can't be lower. Like on my last, I have em, I'm tenth. Right. So I made an quarterback, that's fine. What are we arguing about? I just can't get there with him and I just wonder: you know we, if we're really gonna, have to count on that dude for four straight playoff games or three straight playoff games. I dunno, if I see it What? What do you want to see? That's that's my question. What do you want to see

I think he's from what I watch. It always seems like it's a little lucky on his site. This is the people are gonna, get mad at this, but it'll be like oh the time when he throws the pack sauce. Gardner drops it and it's a pick. Six write an sos carter's. The best cornerback in the wig and it's right there and he's going down the sidelines now, all of a sudden. The jets are winning, but he dropped it and it's been allowed those bombs, the flipside, would be. Will dak broke his leg that was unlucky at all, but it it just sometimes there's some playing golf with dad buck with him like when you you play golf there, daddy hits one in the trees and it just bounces outright to the fairway. I do feel that way, and I can't quantify it. I can't prove it It's you how I feel about you for borrowing. Now I get that I think quarterback evaluation has a lot to do with that. I think it influences how I wrinkled

facts but here's my argument: here's our pushback against that if you clone patrick mahomes thirty two times and you gave each nfl team, patrick mahomes, one patrick Mahoney team- would go probably go like fourteen and two, but one would do to and fourteen and we would having this conversation about the two in fourteen patched, my about how you not a leader about how he doesn't win football, even though the the guy, like only one person, can win the superbowl every year. I think once we realise that it makes the cubans The argument like something that easier to overlook what is Dac look like a bad situation there. I guess, would be my question his. Though, is seen em. What like an expensive and good offensive line for the most part, we ve all seen him without these one or two pretty. They play makers at this year's part and see the lamb or above you know, legitimately good guys, and I just what what does he look like? If he's just carolinas quarterback reno,

maybe space to your point. I think what you're saying is are what you, be saying right now is carolinas. Supporting cat is way better than I thought does. I think quarterbacks like dat prescott make their supporting cast. Better. Nobody realises how bad the charter's office of line is for the past three years, because just Herbert never takes back. Knowing only lies, our bad trevor lawrence is line is because he never takes effect. I beg dat prescott makes that cowboys orphans wine look better than it is. He calls protection before the snap. He moves around the pocket. Well, he throws, with the interests of patients, it's good because of dac. It happened again like an elite opens a wide since his rookie year and I feel like we still kind of criticism in the same ways: embers cousins, I think it's a wash, but that's my take was he will see if I'm wrong is as the year goes along, I'm more open to that argument now cause I do think Kirk has kind of evolved. It's just at this point like who cares he's like he's like a like a twenty.

You're, all these doing well in high school right, not like oh yeah, you're time was a decade ago come on. I were wrap it up. So the key ragged go up on the ringer dot com and you can hear seabury, with nor on the ringer nfl show as well good to see you don't read the replies just put the pisa tweet. The link and just move on with your dad good to see thanks for having me Okay, Chris Ryan, is here you've heard em with me on the rewatch buzz many times. You hear him on the watch with Andy Greenwald, where they broke down the demise of winning time. A two season show on h, b, o a sports said, naturally we are reading for it. I like he's the one more than season two, I thought the wheels. China came off and a lot of ways, and it was interesting to see the reaction this week, people mad that didn't get renewed, most people dead, care, because there was an huge audience for the show, but at the same time there is you could fill it in them.

He do with Andy like a little bit of sadness. Keziah big swing, and it and it is it just didn't work, so. What does that mean? Big picture. Well, pick that it means that this is a show that should have had a huge audience. They could never quite find it and you have to unpack why that is a anyway. Some kind of argument that I just never settled onto the protagonist was my crew it was about you dont have to you, can have your ensemble bill, but you have to settle on like a jack, you have to settle on a waterway You have to settle honour on, and you know the person whose the story is being told through, and I just dont know if, if when he's, I'm ever made, that decision between jerry boss primarily a magic johnson, it just seemed like it was spread too in that way. So one thing that I liked about the show, which is also why I couldn't continue, was, was so incredibly lavish inexpensive, little like the morning shall write. Her figure

spend the amount of money that it would take to do the recreation biscuit recreate the next day for five years a game which was insane well together. You that cost more than eighty four finals are sending reese witherspoon to space set up its fit. It's probably a dead. He, but you have not. I do have the jonesy rally adrian brodie, chastened siegel, all of these actors, but even you have people actually Jacobs just in it like bear up- early anything role as pet rallies, wife and eight they just the way the showed booked was so decadent. Then, and that was I think one of the coolest things about it, but also to me why it wasn't sustainable in any of the dialogue I heard after the show got canceled. Nobody to mention that this was I I don't know the exact number, but probably like a really high level. Expensive show and that was one of the reasons we liked it. But it was also one of the reasons it couldn't go on for six seasons if it ever built an audience yeah, I mean what was this show supposed to be about rape because, like the same way, the

I have to figure out like who the show is about a character wise. It's like is this a front office show? Is it an owner If so, is it is strictly basketball? Show the basketball will always be the heart just wanted to tell not only do I imagine it's probably pretty expensive to stage those scenes where you're like recreating the garden and stuff like that. Also like certain kinds of actors, you have to use all these different techniques. To show like what showtime basketball felt like. So I most wonder whether or not there was like a solve year where it could have been about jerry west power. Only jerry bus in the making of the team, and it would have been more like money, ball and exists kind of phones and in bars, rather than on the more. But I really I am where the hell are the fact that they were just like we're just doing the eighty four files it just, never quite click for me once they did that stuff. I thought they landed at the basque by way too much second seat The show that was really interesting to me was the show that I wasn't even a hundred percent sure I liked, but in the first season there lean

and suggests what the nba was. Nineteen, seventy, nine knights and eighty before anything ray, and I thought the premises gonna be here's this guy, jerry bus unlike any only you fad and hears bird and magic. These two stars that fall from the sky and here's this leak. That is a complete mess, that's being criticized in actual pieces about it. How to. It can't soda madison avenue their tape. Playing games it just go in this direction, whereas somebody that was a kid and I wrote about this minded. My book, like, I really loved the league, and I was like worried about it and over the course of five years, the eighty four finals. All of these things shift and some of it's luck and some of its timing, but stern was such. Big piece of this and he's in the show a little bit and season one little there and then he's out and me, like

how the mba proceed. These two guys, how they are being pitted against each other, as like the white guy in the black guy, and then the the the where I thought it really tailed off in the second season for me, was magic gets the coach fired. And this is this seminal moment in his career- were his the villain a lot like when the brown became the villain when he went to the heat that first year, where just this below the guy or the sudden, has taken just a shitload of shit, and I remember when He saw- and I wrote about this, but when in the inn of progress, but when we saw bill Russell wemyss but the day with them, and he told us the story about magic Johnson when he saw magic right after that happen and magic, seems so lost and beat down and he actually call them over and told them Hey man hang in there and then I went back interview magic and I told magic that story and, as I started, a telethon he's like yeah, he called me over while I was like. Where was where was that like a it, the show seem way more preoccupied with. Was he getting get back?

with cookie or not, and I could just tell you neither of scared like I know he gets back of cookie, which is something new and eighty talked about a lot. How do you drama when I already know the results of the drama yeah. I knew. I think that the cookie phone calls we re laughed a bunch about them, but I think that they were almost this still allowing a hundred times you're. My girl, he's coming back or do we jenkins on the phone that they we have got. Ass, though I mean I think storytelling device to kind of let magic say what was going on in his mind. So he makes these repetitive kind of phone calls to cookie. But yeah I mean you think about what you're saying with stern. That foresees a really worked for me, I loved, though, would harris spencer heyward plot line. I thought that was really all the show me to the sort of dark side of the part partying and, to some extent, part of the issue that I have. The second stephen was that

felt like a star deports punchers a little bit where a look alike but it will honour, but it was allowed a better. Was it felt like a different show? They were yes, even more scared, and who are you whether or not just after everybody got a chance to see a new. Obviously it dealt with the backlash of late, jerry, west and depiction of jerry west and be like hey, that's not him. He wasn't like that or what you know, maybe even the bus family. I have no idea being like well, we love jerry, dr bus to be depicted, maybe not as a guy loves an orgy here and there you know at its legs the okay. So then you get to the east. Get a kinder gentler version of all these characters and a probably busy? Is it an easier show to make out at all, but a less compelling showed watch yeah like even in the first is that once a baby, the maddest were jerry west, Larry bird, whose and therefore a split second- and it looks like he's about to head the capital ungenerous sessions. I got really like there s a shy sky over the sum of the railway staff

I just don't think riley was to you're saying Admittedly Larry bird was not at the capitol and I don't think I think it is appropriate. The indiana okay, the way riley was depicted. I just don't feel like somebody who played professional asked by four seven eight years and was this it's a tall and had all should together, like you did, would just be the site. Complete, downer his a loser. There had to be some sort of garbage, our even ibm. Might my favorite part of the show was brody is parity actually had an arc too. This is where this guy starts to get to the iconic version of himself, with the as the result of the second season yeah. I think we all agree when he the switch goes off and he starts yelling at those guys. So let me ask you this: is there a prestige, tv drama that can be made about the nba? would satisfy you like? Are we may be the wrong people to be having this conversation because we're just like you? Is they know more about basketball them most people who walk the earth?

energy missouri show. You know I like that. I know of my bread is buttered, but out his wonder whether or not like worse we're like we can be satisfied when we're watching a show like that its arguments have you anything the cradle of the audience is so if it were not a hundred percent satisfied but then they're not getting my way fee there, who doesn't really know any this stuff and that that then diagram starting closing, but I still feel like they were moves that that could have been made is in the second season, laid the bar one magic when he impregnates. Some girl that wasn't even really his girlfriend their deciding during the course that sees how to handle it and the way his dad talked about how he should handle. I thought that was really good at thought, even though those stuff about was the sea

losing control of the of the steering wheel with the team. He I thought some of that work about, I think my biggest issue. The of the show was other than just like the jew s thing was just so over the top I don't understand. I could do that and then say: no! No! It's fictional is fiction. Well, if somebody made a tv show about the adamant will fare relationship falling apart, just read out like a random, just like what say that happen, and they made at a mackay just seem like a lunatic like. Would he would you think that was cool out I'd, probably not fast? I I just felt like they would focus on certain things. And then it would just be like the beats and the minutiae and then a they just skipped over the entire nineteen. Eighty two eighty three season, or they skipped over the fact that once riley actually took over the biggest thing they did that you're from a basketball standpoint was they brought back into off the banks which they barely mentioned, but then they would just went way more athletic and they did they had their press. They were

This crazy team that had Karim running the floor and fur like about three months. They were this unstoppable athletic machine and none of the playoff series. They were even interesting because they beat the shit out everybody and that site they mention that far. What two seconds so. That may be the reason why, like it's not gonna work for you is because, like obviously your interest in this is so grandma that you're. Talking about mackadoo coming off the belgians like a lot like I'm, that's it. It's great, I'm saying when you're when you into the minutiae. The way the show was, but you're also picking and choosing the energy, is that's where I get confused words like we're. Just having in the west tat in this do often sees installing and training camp and the knitting of that, and then we just skip over the last three months of the season. We we skip over like moses, going to fill I know how important that was an

Korea seems old for the first time that kareem's in trade rumors were these broken leg like these agreed telling the story, the lakers and you're doing the beep I'd be best bus that these are seminal basque bob moments. They were certainly big part of parliament's book. You're right I mean, and I think that it was a digital, jerry west boy. I think that, like the pilot of the the sea, the series of the first episode of the series, the mackay directed it, was basically closer natural born killers than it is now. Our esteemed tv show like it was directed camera dress there, all these different film stocks. There was all this like sort of knowing twenty twenty two commentary or twenty twenty three commentary on the night. Eighties or late seventies. An early eighties basketball- and it was actually like, I think, would have very hard to sustain that leg It's hard to ask me to watch every week, like, oh my god, there's so much going on visually here- that I can't zero in on a character. So then they turn it in

something. That's a little bit more of a sustainable model suits of storytelling to your point, it's like! Maybe they just should it told the very, very, very like granular d, tailed, basketball story. I have had all should I, but my problem is sometimes they were and sometimes they wouldn't but go backwards. Who are the most compelling characters in the show? Jerry bus, pat, really, I think, dream who is almost under utilised, but I was so fascinated by him because that was the sky legend airily, Jim Murray, interviewed his back and just he hated the press, but maybe he was right about allowed things he had the press for, he was I other developed at the weekend and values like had like us, curtain, like he, had a riotous yeah right right, but then, when you have his place burns down, which was this incredibly traumatic event for kareem red, he loses he's this amazing collector of all these different things and everything burns down and they have the payoff which Greenwald was making fun of with the eight euro.

Is like yours, my herbie hancock album and then dreams gotta play with pride, and here I don't know like it. Just I just didn't work may berwin. When we get to the point where we're just recreating the eighty four finals, I don't think that's what the show was that I do afraid doing that lay that out at all. So my big wish for the show this is unfair, because you know you you can't just say like with this show should have just been this like there's, obviously a ton of decisions that go into it, but I yeah it would have been cool to see it be basically the crown so what the crown dies is it doesn't do day by day, a pope picks these random, not random, but these significant points in queen Elizabeth life and does episodes that kind of jump around, but ultimately straight something. So I think it would have been fine if they wanted to do the history. The shows I'm lakers but to try and make it like we're. Gonna get us training camp and then it's the first week of the season and then as the second. We get this using you

Can't then jump ahead a year and that users, rather it six years, frazier and I won't stand for it. You know they also jamal wilks a J and James, where they are like barely in the show, but here's the other thing, where they're being really hard on certain characters and really authentic to what happened with them, but then norm Nixon his I I thought his son did a good job play norm, Nixon but yeah, Davon, etc, but there were a lot of drug rumours within that led to one of the reasons they made the tree in all the books about these teams really go into that. And about how he is being followed by the fbi had said I had so we're doing spencer, heyward we're doing magic versus west edwards magic having a child out of wedlock. All this stuff We're just going to ignore that part and we're going to norco the the role of cocaine in general, not just with the lakers, but in the eighties. In the m b, a I and I, the kareem magic stuff. I thought they hit pretty ok, but there is this

rose was had become magic, steam and cream he's in rumour see almost got traded said the next at one point and there was like always clippers buzzer them in I just got Karim was march them, but I think fundamentally you hidden and that at the beginning like who is the show about her, the protagonists and wood trying to do that where we ended up with jerry buses. Basically, so I'm supposed to feel bad. That he's married. The two people is I think he was a victim like I lay borrowing apart, but I know his life then far. Parkers, we don't happen. I wonder whether, and I salute the story- the came out after the season arid and then There is an interview in vulture with the producer and he's like, so we had the opportunity to add this last seen with jerry and jeannie kind of be a little bit of a code of mistake right. I do

wonder whether or not some of the season was edited knowing it was gonna be over. You know like because it because of it. I'm jump because of the way that are a greener is introduced as honey. This kind of composite jerry bus, or more, she is in one or two episodes and then all of a sudden they're breaking up, and it seems like she's mad that he just spends too much time on basketball, but it turns out he's got and you have a wife like all legal, like relationships still with his wife and she's she's furious about it, and she brings in more of a mitchell sin to sue him and there was like a lawsuit against him about stuff, but he just started to get really confusing about how much time had passed. What relationships where where and when that kind of stuff starts happening on t v shows you kind of feel like okay, the dies cast, I think the biggest mistake they made was after season, one assuming that this was gonna, be like a five or six years show. I think, because this

that's. Why didn't head? I don't think it had like big audience, but I do think people like that and I think if they had made the decision from basically after see someone hey, let's go three seasons total here and let's try to do everything we want to do in the second and third season, because in the pilot with the promise, not have fun promise, but it starts a magic finding out that he hiv we kind have to get to that moment. So how do we it's at that moment over the next twenty episodes and you're, not do it the way they did it, where the citizens and nineteen eighty four and then I just did they would have been able to pull it off. Sir, I think I bet if they had to do it there for me from the moment that first season and cyclists sketch out, twenty episodes? What are the twenty most important things that happened to this team over the course of five years? At what rate so does h, b o pick this up? If they know hey season three is that we haven't sketched out. It's eight episodes whatever it is, it's gonna take us to nights, and you are now I'm

The way it ended. I almost what rather not have a series finale. I would just rather have it ended with the magic in the locker room, and we just never know what happens. Other shows that have ended like that. You didn't want to see boston win the title again. No. I liked that part that was a bit of that was an unexpected thing, but just like jerry buss one so on the lakers for a long time and wherever magic, one three titles and then got hiv. It's like this is not how we can end a series yeah. I mean the other thing that they could have borrowed from the crown that I mentioned on. The watch is just like they could have time Jim and they could have been like next season. Is co being check right, you know, and they could have just been like this. Series can cover thirty forty years of lakers history, but we could do you seasons on magic. We can do to sheet seasons I'll be in shock. We can do la come into the team the bubble I don't know, and that's not this compelling baby as the other was seasons. The problems

if the kobe and shaq stuff would have had the same issues that the eighty stuff had, which is how do how dark do you wanna get? How deep do you wanna go and how provocative do you want to be? when genie bus started, saying how she liked the show and then her husband was cast as one of the agents. The last that beside it was like boats, clearer than some of us, that that happens, that you and animated key point that. This is a show and allay that's pretty polarizing bad, how they were treating some of the characters in some of the buzz that it was getting in. It just seemed like a softer show in season two regardless. I just don't understand the concept of veered seas, For now, I waded out of season philologist rick, recreating the nineteen eighty four files in such a weird choice. Me. It's not have stern there. You already laid the groundwork with stern and tonight really lay out what was really happening with the weak that year they mention a couple times, but I'd to me this, I thought season. One was a story about.

How do owners become mega owners had stars become mega stars had as a league that starts like basically scrape it along become the league became. And I care way more about that, then is magic and end up a cookie or not write. His path had his primarily beyond the coach, interesting, but I'm not sure we needed two seasons to trace the ark. You know in the coach, and this is cut it speaks to where we with t v a little bit in a grander way. I mean Andy, and I were talking about whether or not this show actually would have made sense to have like a longer form treatment of like fifteen twenty episodes, the way you see a network television or rather me if you know like this kind of thing where it's like, then you can kind of just get lost in it every week and have it be oh this week it's going to be about this or this week. To be about tat you you could do that with lost. You could just be like. Oh it's it's! It's a jack flashback episode this cool. Like you didn't mind, the long stretch out of of that of that storytelling revisit felt, waits compressed and then at times which,

slow the amount of time we spend our western in the system and mckinney in all this. In building it up, you're like wow. This is really interesting. They seem really interested in this, but they can't even they have to keep cutting away from it. To do all this other stuff, you mentioned the stern stuff when Gaby Hoffmann comes up to jerry Boston is like we've made this tv deal. And it's gonna be huge. I this is pretty much like one of them most significant things We're leave out. I would to have seen how that happened or what buses role. Was it it right then Donald sterling gets brought in for a split second, whereas I might never thousand other next vote or stuff where they said. I am able to get sweat, nator and also there this guy been scouting. Byron got death discard it's like! Oh, you mean the best guard. The draft is a tough. I beg you. Ve been chair that your pack, either you ve, been had your hip pocket there. Look, I we're doing lotta complaining. I really appreciate

how ambitious the show was an eye I, unlike pro I'm glad the show happened yet I feel like they could have gone to a third season had they structured thing from first from the end of the first is not a little differently, and I just was like the genie bus character. I think was my favor character. I was really I was really into how does this sit down of blossom into this other person that we know now. From being like is lowly. You know she basely work, the team cancer dad's rich guy She knows your dad's, you know not just a play why, but it's even worse he's got this album with all his photos and how does she kind of gather all this information take all the hits and then try to figure out how to become a savvy businesswoman and the gaby Hoffmann character, the way they put up with each other? I thought that was some of the best stuff on there. So I think your money, bob point is a good one. The reason we love money bows it's what they want. Recreating the twenty

winning streak of any religious, though, as in bosnia every man of a whole bunch of teaching staff, they never mention there and jermaine dye and johnny Damon. It's like you were just think. Scott had a burgh walked his way through this incredible street, but I don't care because it's really good, because what moneyball is about is these two guys in an office putting Dave dombrowski on hold just to call Brian Sabean. You know what I mean: it's that's the that's the juice there. You have to pick out what the thing is that you're trying to do with you. She now it's easier movies, because you're just like ok, we have two hours. What is the story? Will want it all in it. Have you show you can operate under the illusion that you can do it all, but yeah like I do. I do feel that, because I can This is a show that is literally maiden the lab for me. Didn't quite work money by created the Jonah character was leaving a real person. That's possibility. I would actually maybe a year. We gonna need somebody like this, so they create thou it yeah. It didn't work,

I do think guy. I wanted to ask you to me and Andy we're talking about this a little bit about whether or not sports stories or sports movies or whatever you want to say some work. Better when thereabout like this story, you don't know like so it's like a behind the scenes tale about lake placid that you didn't really know like how it all im together and get to see Kurt. Do it or it something like rudy, or whose yours or whatever, where it feels very much like you're, the remember those items, yeah verses, doing something where it's like everybody has a kind of sense of personal equity with ec. Is there so many lives? his fans, they have their feelings about magic day of their feelings, about power riley, and they don't want that that, like challenge necessarily or if it is challenged, it's like it's really easy to lose them, as, as is the case with jerry west

I have trouble when it's like we're going to be really realistic and authentic to the story here, but then we're also going to take crazy liberties. They even the people attacking the laker bus after the first game, make it stop. It just didn't happen, there is no way you would have assembled that many people outside the bus just away, though the whole street was you know, operating at the time, but I don't I don't know the answer, but it almost seems like I person would rather watch like you'd have to have those lifetime shows or its egg. The real life story of the teacher who had an affair stood in many kill their energy. Rather, why starring in the lounge wretched? All? That's like all this early happen. I don't know it happen, What did it, but it's a its whatever two hours but made for these sport stories. Maybe the kobe shack lifetime version of just their relationship, be marge thing than somebody painstakingly trying to get every he's right and getting the film jackson and, oh,

I now run our test has to come in. We gotta get him yeah. I it's it just seems impossible. It's an impossible task, as we found out with the show and er it's here I'll see you a big rewatch bubbles with my annual birthday rewatch bubbles. And that we always do big movies. So there's one that we're very excited about that we're doing together on Monday night, with fantasy. I will see you then take care bill I'd, that's it for the pack Ass thanks to our rivers and chris rhine and Stephen Ruiz thanks cockroach, then steeps ready for producing, remember you can get tickets to see them in oxford, mississippi with priscilla and bin laden september. Twenty ninth get your tickets at the lyric. Oxford dotcom show starts at two local time. New re watch was up. If you want to just keep it,

Some may a bronx tale. It's up right now, another good one coming next week and we are gonna, be back on thursday, doing million dollar picks and all kinds of stuff. It just feels like lots happening right now. Thought about gone everyday for back ass. We know it is a neighbour, I will see you on thursday we must be when one person president select states federal, is offering online sports wagering kansas enter an agreement with kansas, star casino, llc gambling problem call one eight hundred gambler or visit www angel dot com, slash r g and collar.

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