Well come on the market, an armchair expert experts on expert, I'm dan shepard and am joined by monica hires shepherd tired of this is the asked of thursday. So if you listen about a man named, you know that we have split it into two best solve, which is a great great great choice by monica she had are thinking upon. So these are our favorite experts of the year fun. If you bet you could buy this a cap, baseball cap that says thinking cap I right that and on the nose or okay, then there's another hat called how about a hat and it has a high there's. A lot of these she's got a whole bunch

about you ever had, but the hat for no reason has a little support beam that sticks to your nose so that the bill doesn't come down on high and then you and then you would say about that, helps to on the nose. Ah, that's ok. I mean I make you cross site. If you wore sounds painful and there's a hot baseball cap style small bar ray on top of the cap and that's a hat on a hat. Ok, I just want to suggest that you do a boar. On top of that, I would say I know, but Both are route like you have a pancake on a on how you want to hate circles. I love these, I'm so motivated by circles. The world runs on circles. What I'm talking about

Please enjoy the best of thursday's who wants to fuss with inserting a card into a reader or worse, into a skimmer rear card information can be stolen. I wouldn't be here without apple pie. You want it. No none of the things I'm wearing nude, my hearing that can have a lawsuit against you. Perhaps I just I use it for tee. in times a day, and if it's not an option on what I'm buying, I often don't buy it exact same I'll fill a car. I see they don't have apple pay 'em out of there. I know, and we're here last year on halloween, I was gonna, go as apple pay. Yes, I do men, but I had to scrap a last minute because I didn't plan ahead, but I still think it's a great comes out earmarked for oil and stood pity the apple way. Apathy is easy, secure and built in the iphone. All you have to do is set it up, just add a card in the wall. It up. in your good to go reboot your credit card with apple card, the credit card created by apple.

It gives you unlimited daily cash back that you can now choose to grow and a high yield savings account. That's built right into the wall. It up apply for apple com, now in the wall it up on iphone phone and start growing. Your daily cash with savings today apple guard, subject: accredit approval savings is available to apple card owner, subject: eligibility requirements, savings accounts provided by goldman sachs bank usa member after I see terms apply here, from episode, five, thirty, three phil stats report and my philosophies: bushy was performed. This is failure and laws. They must set a worshiped as if their gods, they are positive atmosphere, and how to deal with them. So you don't get paralyzed completely. Why are they to be worshipped if you think of it in turn? the shadow which is a part of you. You don't want anybody to see, but you can't get rid of

but you still try to hide It has a lot of store up stuff in it, a most memories, attitudes, fears, whatever it is, you have to get it that's was a human ego with its nature is to try to avoid. As soon as the definition of the ego is removing anything that you think the world will look a scan said. Well, shame you embarrass you wherever it is, so let me say I infer It is, of course, right area here you resurrected, I first gotten out. He was the eighties I was just like, about acting in show business allister so it because it would happen, would be one of my patients would get a call back they get so excited about it in the sales, and I have to replicate that reading that is the one that happens after your initial additionality. Basically, you made it through a round of the press.

As in write, your immediate inclination, is like oh fuck. What did I do? That was so right in that room. I have to figure out how to do the exact same thing in this callback. So, in fact, they would in the shadow just stay outside, because if they see you we're roundly fact is noted. His way, Add here to take five minutes I'll, buy you an ice cream. What happens? Is you tell your shadow stay out stay away, so you, the ego, is working so hard to make the thing perfect and what you really get is like a flat reading. It's not terrible, but it's it doesn't catch. Your attention is dead and the reason is dead is because the shadow has been excluded and by the way, will you tell the shattered to stay outside? What he says is our way few out here, but don't expect any help from made you a fact I resent being rejected. I mean it's not that Anna knows but close to end. When the shadow rebuilds, it's kind of a withdrawn state and the saw horse doesn't come out with

this offers a flower of universal its unpredictable, its sloppy its him, because it doesn't care about the things, though, we hear about it, doesn't want to win and not play for that. It doesn't believe in work. that much it believes in feeling much much more than words. The he thinks the shadow was insane? That's the best way to say because his value system is so different. So I sorry to bring the shadow with me. I would talk to him and I say you can come in here. You can say and do whatever you want to retain the two of you. You have an excellent five to give that permission. All thank you that's the goal of this entire thing. Odor! we want. Is a woman ass before I proclaimed agenda, the show? Is it fair to I say that. What were most attracted to you know he avoided. life or most attracted to in life is complexity, and multi demur

which and when you leave your shadow outside your literally leaving one of you fundamental dimensions. So when I now I'm just my ego or my superego, my perfect self, we can feel that this, two dimensional. There is not that their bit of geometry. That makes you complex an intriguing. Broader Evan issue, but important, which is most people pursuing that would is magical. So if he's sure like rectangle anna peace, but it is, lined with dashes it's not a solid line and I the pursuit of perfection business actual yeah. This is a snapshot, but that idea, it seems to me, said but what it really does, if you think about it, it has. The quality of a snapshot knows that shows no movement in it and no depths So the more you hunt for the perfect, the flatterers

then gets I'm said five: seventy three red ribbon. We make it less came ass, a we have a businessman lower right. If something is blowing creed right on it snowed Angela Angeles yesterday love- I know I'm just coming from costa rica, oh o, particularly, I applaud your lack of codependent seekers like I would find myself freezing somewhere in the no designer they're gonna. Be so afraid you, unlike me, unlike impressed by what I just witnessed. Why do I care, if you like me, yeah. You can advocate for yourself, I'm here. To be myself yeah. I hope you liked me, but I'm not going to change me so that you like me right, you're, not gonna, pretend you're warm and you're cold and it's admirable. You realize a lot of people struggle with most people there in lies. What my job is and what the job of creativity is it knowing yourself are you? Ok?

with yourself and being able to say, feel cold in here that all my job is really allows. This happens. I got stood ass. It was like when Jonah starting, actually participating. Let's debts enterprise- and you know you can talk about therapy for a long time. You can talk about his tools, but until there's a click in the dock, where we start seeing them being used, and then you can understand them in a way that profound. So, yes, we, talks. What your book all day long! Also I've been asked about. How do? U have confidence in your taste and like I am neither colder and not called its. clear, like I'm good, Chile, I feel like this cold wind blowing on me and has no more meaning. Then seems cold in here. There's no greater meaning this no insult it's so face. Value yeah this what's happening and I'm responding what's happening. That's all within that is a tool because for most people it is much more cluttered than that.

every little thing in my cold arm. I not cause a lot of people. Go, I'm called they're, not am- I called they're, not o d iron deficiency could lead to a million thoughts is true or like this is their space and I can't be the one to call it like letterman. Famously did you ever do letterman and that never did, but I know he kept it. Precinct was like fifty degrees in there and you went in knowing this motherfucker. Like I told you just said to me, you know we really liked the show cold. We can get your blankets like, okay, like I, I would roll with it, but I'm still not gonna walk out. I think it's ok Yeah yeah talk about this lover. I love it should be easier. That's fascinating, yeah, in episode. Five. Seventy eight david Sedaris. I just got some good postcards just in australia, and I went to a place that always wanted to go to

tasmania called the museum of old and new art mona. a billion ere. He made his money online gambling. I think not gambling himself but setting it up so that other people could and then he opened a museum and wondered things the museum it wasn't there when we went was it's like a toilet kind. thing and there's a camera in it and it broadcasts your anus. Oh, oh you, like an you. Wanna come away. If I dont know what's mine yasser, like I don't know, but they built a man made colon and they feed it eleven in the morning in decades, it too in the afternoon- and you could leave when it smelled like in this big, beautiful room, I'd, never smelled any white like it and they said no, it's breaking the food down that causes the sea, but then there's poker

so pottery only in the gift shop. I bought some great postcards and I bought for bars of soap that were cast from four differently. Men's vaginas did the shape. Surprise. You visit a question in what way was it like deeper and longer than you are expecting? It was like a little black or was it like? They had filled the vagina with wax and hard, and I was like outs high, Yeah J area, the outward shape the really just what the guy You know the hydrogen gas is worded, it did level shoved wax up. I would like here to what I will hand stand and then I feel out of whack and then took that out. That's me probably, would be shockingly large, but they sell it online at the gift.

Mona emma Winnie and its forty dollars for a bar so but hodge good gift for people. You didn't use the soap. Did you know? I don't think anybody would. I can write so now comes in pretty box and then you can use even had ordered. Does it have a photo of the woman whose vagina disk anxiety? Ok, it smells like, therefore difference. It's like one sandal wood rose. Ok, it's not like the goop right vagina candle that now patrolman no back to the toilet. Zeb it because I want to make sure I understand it correctly. They built a mechanical digestion. Yes, some ok and they didn't try to make it look like a man. On top of that there is packing a box full of food and letting it three massive jars and the food goes into wine and goes into another and then decades the whole room smells

does it constantly breaking down the food shortage? And it made me think too, I spent two weeks of the medical examiners office in phoenix. They would do autopsies and the most disturbing part of it wasn't the sight of it, but it was the smell of it, and I can see the stick. Exactly, but it's a smell that says to your brain run yeah yeah yeah, dad abolition way from Europe's response six forty three doormat. Ok, you know who that is behaviors monica, have you yeah again not drugs to let it go definition of addiction. Then you tell me okay by the way the word addiction comes from the latin word for slavery. Oh wow, yeah! Well, then, that accurate addiction is manifested in any behaviour in which a person finds temporary relief or pleasure and therefore craves, but then suffers

We have consequences in the long term and doesn't give up, despite the negative consequences, so pleasure, creating belief. In short, harm in the long term. Refusal the ability to give it a dozen elections and is anything but drugs, include drugs. Obviously nicotine caffeine, crystal friend on alcohol could also be sex gambling shopping? Pornography, anticipating fantasy, believe me. Internet gaming work power. go on and on and on so yes, traditions know for like forty bucks. Now, What was wrong with the addiction, not even one dixon was. But what did you get from it in the short term that you create? So when you go, where did you get validation, kiss him over the feelings of being worthy? Ok, thank you. That's what the jurisdictions give relief from pain. Yeah has my mantra donors whether they should ask why the pain in my case is also valid. Nation, for example, and also everything of being alive

yes and very good arousal jogging area being alive sense of being worthy penalty for the good things about things in himself right that saying, Essentially I, the addition. Wasn't. Your primary problem you edition was under them to solve a problem is an adaptation, the rope almost you're like a worthiness or your belief in your leg. Over this, which has evolved a tomb, the pain that you have spans do They talked about the source, thin, very painful expansive. My as well, and I'm not telling on monica school cause. We ve talked about this a bunch and hear what is really salient is yes. Mine involves like criminal activity. Hers is not but the result is just as strong. In fact, definitely ass, strong, maybe more surround decimal point you're being brown in the south and liking a boy and having the boys. I can't like you back as your brown is like. Well, that's a rap on that grandson passed down. Abandonment! Stop! This is my

I know that about myself. But it's like what we said earlier. It happens in here all the time and it continues to happen where I don't feel like. I should be here and I don't know how to stop it, the purpose to him. He wants to jump on just like a dog on a bone. I want you to attack or attack cigar okay. But let's just conclude the point you are, my dixons, where that patients, that this is the one to emotional pain, where's that pain source, from so addictions are not diseases that you inherit they're, not bad habits. You choose their desperate attempts to relieve suffering, that's all they are, and the fact that you're addiction, ro criminal, it's only because this society criminalize a certain addictions. I meant the inciting trauma to me. You try to evaluate is be more traumatic than that item compared promise. Now is the point I was making as I would the bank that yeah, even though uses criminal her suggests a devastating essex These are the results the same so merganser them

Yeah recently said that you don't feel like you belong. Is that the figures I think I did say that friday and slip to, let me give you a bit of courting a foaming gap, is around it. Is not a feeling. Finland, I'm hungry Adam angry. Those are feelings or emotions. What islam don't belong opinion a fact. Fear it's an opinion is the point of view yeah. What do you feel when you believe that you don't belong unnecessary hurry or that on those sites, not a few were right. Ok, I guess sad, but that seems basic. Remember this. it's so obvious that it feels deeper than the word sab. Maneuver wait if you willing to work with this stupid disbelief that don't belong here, blogger did you ve spirited here today in the ass. Ok, now just checking with your body. What do you

feel when you have that belief and that belief seizes hold of you physically. I feel hot okay, if this is on camera, when you said that what would the audience have seen on your face just now and I said yeah, you probably don't know that smile or laugh. You smiled what's funny, but I want to sound like it was funnier, but nothing okay. So what you're already doing is distancing itself from your feeling? There is not a criticism. Just an observation for good reason: you learn that a better not be with my feelings are better gonna minimize them, but let's go about it question again? What do you feel when you believe that the three of us here engagements to me very deep and honest comes there and you don't belong, but he and she flew by when you believe I would say the hopeless does not have Our guide, the populace, is a belief that there's no hope. What do you feel you believe things are always sat sadness there now

I understand the shop in your body. Everything feels trade ad and deflated gonna construction. Yes, you chose to new billions. hmm. Can you be with that emotion? Why not just film it? Is it ok that things are constricted? Can you just accept them and be with them? Hmm, what's it like when you're with them? when you're not deflecting the minimizing, it's uncomfortable and painful like it hurts, it is pain. There can you be with the pin I don't want to who the heck wants to, and, of course you don't want to, but can you be yeah! Ok, that's the way through is actually have to allow itself to have those emotions and to be with them, because it's got nothing to do we're being where they are not really it's gonna do with emotions that we don't know how to deal with, because the child you weren't, given the support that brings all your motions to guys you of your way through it, but your way through

through the body not just by talking about it in a desert, be with this stuff, I'm not his teacher by any means, but I'm talking basic, but the buddha said just be with other stuff. I noticed in them by the way who's the poorest does noticing the pain and staying with it was oppressed. this being honest about it may is at risk. It's really noteworthy okay, I love stay tuned for more armchair experts dare reboot your credit, art, with apple card the credit card created by apple it gives you unlimited daily cash back that you can now choose to grow and a high yield savings account. That's built right into the wall. It up apply for apple com,

now in the wall it up on my phone and start growing your daily cash with savings today apple guard, subject: accredit approval savings is available to apple card owner. Subject: eligibility requirements, savings accounts provided by goldman sachs bank usa member after I see terms apply. We are supported by defender boy, oh boy, if I lived whim rovers for ever, oh so attracted to that defend or mine. Well, what a beastly car in the history, the offloading history there. So wonderful, listen europe for any challenge. That comes your way. So is the defender one ten, the iconic vehicle been re, imagined for twenty first century adventures and its unparalleled offer. Mobility, as well as its robust interior, are invaluable, whether your headed towards uncharted territory or just a week of exploration, the under one ten tackles challenging surroundings with absolute confidence, as you ve conveys strength outside in an featuring peerless techno,

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so. It is brought to you by netflix of interviewed a ton of people on the show and constantly fascinated by all my fellow human beings, and that is why I am super excited about the new netflix film maestro. I mean it's not often you get to talk about when you're friends. How could I know bradley cooper of course, direction? Stars, the legendary conductor, composer leonard Bernstein, in the love story that chronicles his lifelong relationship with actress, wife, felicia played by carry mulligan rolling stone, calls it an absolute marvel and one of the finest films of the year. Maestro is now plain and select theatres and on netflix rated raided are six sixty one barbara king, sober growing up in a working class, culture and working class place. Didn't

You want to be an artist when you grow up while leasing kentucky. You don't say that, because it seems use heidi toity feels hoity too. I asked what I yell feels upper class feels ridge. We hey referable exactly itself and all with a luxury and its putting yourself above like I'm, not one of you. It's like the saying I'm can we merrill street when examined what happened. I asked yes, I just kept this to myself. Can I see, as a boy's, a young boy growing up in very blue color, to try hurry? It was gay that was my fear. I was writing. I was being creative, and so my little paradigm I was stuck in was that was gay because it was feminine, which also probably part of your feeling too. You want a powerful woman, which means more mass geller. I need to do what the boys are due to start writing poem right. That's for sure I saw a while that either of us would have any thought like this thing needs to be. Private is so crazy, Yang, god forbid. If you'd want to be a day Sir. Oh no was on the table level. As we then interviews, I want you know you

we're going to be an actor jack all through high school meant. You didn't go to my highest active in my school to get my ass kicked in the parking lot every day, not an option. I felt for a long time after I left Carlisle kentucky being a writer was not an option saying I'm a writer, I couldn't imagine it yeah. I needed to be some real and practical, so I just wrote an All that time I was travelling around. I was still writing an old road poems in french guy there, probably terrible, but I was writing and processing and I think what it means tucson is, I didn't, have a voice. I wasn't from anywhere I really: don't have any authority

I was writing short stories said in to sign and they just felt fake, just as fake as those french stories that I rode there was no authentic city and also honestly, I had internalize the shame of being hillbilly. I mean we haven't even start and I there, but just as I didn't understand, I was white until I went to the congo didn't understand. Elsa hillbilly till I went to college in the state where people to help me in a materia and made me say words so that they can laugh at me, the usa, jewish yeah syrup. What's this syrup smells like a poker? What just marking my accelerating oh you're, wearing shoes how cute so I just can be raised that the acts at your hearing. Now I coach shift when I'm in, your when I'm at home, when I'm talkin to my neighbours a talk. The way I spoke growin up, but little by little and not really intentionally I'd, just neutralised my affect for sure solar power

listen to what you're saying, instead of stopping at the words really quick europe arriving at a place that artists have to arrive at, which is you first start by trying to emulate things that you yourself find captivating a romantic and you can succeed at it and then hopefully the road leads you to believing Actually, my version is worthy of telling and my voices worthy of listening to the next you're, crazy road. I with you completely and I'd, take it a step further you have to get to. I do have something to say: my voice is worthy, furthermore, the only thing, I've got gags riley's as you're only true esa, and if all you have out there are intended for what you think people want from you, you ve got nothing other prerequisite knowledge. You must know that I fucking hated that hillbilly elegy thing

q? I fucking hate it at monica and I had a bunch of arguments I was screaming from the rooftop. This is a fraudulent account of all of this. The person wasn't there they didn't experiencing this. This is bullshit and the one good thing about him running and winning the position he has now is it's pro one of us? Well, that's the thing that ultimately Monica had to. I had to really eat my sword, so we had a lot of arguments around that because he was like, I don't buy it. I know that world and I'm also from the south I'm from georgia. So I was like well, you can't assume just cause? It wasn't your spear like we had so many little about a disease, and then I to be like god, you re this raw death. It's his world view. Ok, here's my complaint about vampa We don't even have to say the name of it. He's entitled to write is memoir the fact that that got pitched and bought huh

sale, as my memoir too, and german memoir to the explanation of a people makes me so mad because he had no context heated and talk about structural poverty, hidden targets, the history with the seller. Grand eyes met with well when almost awful robs the ivy league you're only work hard enough, you can be high and the thing is it what's heartbreaking about it is that it really validated the stereotype. It was so widely. Sorry now you ve already eaten your show you how it was so embraced by the rest of a mere because they want to hate on hillbillies. They want to look down on us. We are the less class of people that progressive people get to make fun of there's. Also a pole, humans love a quote: underdog people in hundred story. That's what it felt like

little bit, which is very problematic because its again, this model minority issue where it says everyone's boss, we're in he's not about it? We re it makes people believe, oh will, if he can do it what's wrong with everybody else leah and that's wholly wrong. A lot of us recognize structural racism, institutional racism, but structural classier is just not talked about, from episode of dr ninety one michael waterman. They call the colonel majority agreement, would sometimes when the crowd want something you want someone to say, slowdown everybody, but not too much.

Sooner or later, you want the country as it is and is its growing and changing to be reflected in the government that is supposedly elected by the people. There were only three times in the country's history, where the supreme court left this kind of invisible, unmarked spot in a really big way where it was extreme or partisan. or unduly activist and each time there was a massive backlash, there was a mass of political and social backlash. There was even a political realignment in one of the questions is: are we in a beginning

have a moment like that, one of them, for example, which I talk about in the book as the dred scott case. So that was the first time supreme court really really got in the middle of things and only the second time in the country's history. They struck down a law of congress. There's been all this growing agitation over slavery and efforts to push slavery out of the south so that it would be more nationwide. Every time there was new territories every time there was a war we had to decide in the country was getting more and more worked up about it and the supreme court said we're going to intervene and quote solve the problem, meaning the problem of agitation over slavery, not the problem of slavery. They did this case dred scott, which was

slave man who'd gone to a northern free territory and became free and then went back home to Missouri, and they said oh your slave again, and he fought this eleven year battle. First of all, everyone news can be a really big deal. You might remember that the dobbs case the abortion case leaked last year. That was really traumatic thing. The dred scott case leaked really. It leaked to the incoming president elect buchanan. He was actually privately lobbying them. Hey, go big in return the limits on slavery, and so then he knew exactly what they can do, so he had his inaugural and first of all, he was on the stage and he was like whispering to the chief justice and everybody said: well, we know what that means and then he got up in his inaugural address and he said well. The supreme court is going to make this big ruling in a few days. None of us know what it will be, but let's just all agree we're going to abide by it. Whatever it says in the newspapers

next day said. Well, we know what that means. So it said congress could not limit slavery in the northern territories, while not only that black people are so inferior. They can never be settled and have no rights. This was explosive. It led to any credible irruption led to the rise of the republican party. Abraham lincoln whole political career was to take on this, The matter. Five: ninety nine megan tops roper we were very involved you, I guess, from the outside. From my perspective, your kind of an heir apparent your mother was the matriarch of this organisation right misery was a lawyer herself and had originally picked all the picketing spots and what not only turned over to you at some point- the became your role I about a year and a half before I left. There was kind of this big shift within the church where these elders took over as all of the essentially older, married men and

So a lot of things at my mom did fell to me. My mom. A lot of her influence within the church came from the fact that she would do anything so again, I'm the third of a left, I felt like seven or eight full time. Jobs like she was doing the media for the church and all the logistical operations which it's all of the external facing stuff, like the protest, but also the internal sea,

I was like lawn mowing and daycare of like piano lessons and it's incredibly well orchestrated operation, and did she ever say to you guys behind closed doors? Did she ever have to preface that like? I know this is extreme, but never know it's really funny cause. My husband had these questions too. Before he was my husband. He would ask these questions like we had to know how crazy this was right. This had to be something that we like wink, wink nod nod, and I was like no because we believe that the bible was the infallible word of god. In other words, it wasn't us we weren't wrong. It was other people are wrong, like they were the ones who had left the truth of god, and it's so clearly set out here. Can't you just memorize this verse yeah and it wasn't intentionally inflammatory as much as it's intentionally.

truth, so it wasn't intel after I left actually the process of writing my book, as I was kind of following the way things had fallen log in again, I was five when all this started, you, sir doing interviews very, very young and use you start participating in the lot of the forward facie media stuff, so you're pretty fuckin savvy by the time you seventeen years old, I was just right there with my mom is one of the things in a she required me, I'm the oldest girl, I think, it was trying to protect me and, like keep me close, and so there were moments where you know. I started to go out into the world like to get an outside job and those ended very quickly. So I accepted that this was my role, as I was going back through my memories and then he, a newspaper articles, I'm talking to the older people in my mom's generation, who had left when was very young, so people hide didn't really know what I was asking all these questions. I think one of the things that I didn't realize at first was

my grandfather was absolutely using the power of the twenty four hour new cycle in its very funny, because you can see this happening on social media today outrage provocative things like this is what gets attention, and so we optimize for those things. My mom would say this is the sound bite generation. This is why we have three to five words on a pickets let the most inflammatory version of our message. It's real and its true and we believed every word of it, but it's also clearly something that is designed to get attention and It's funny. I remember sitting in on an interview that my grandfather gave and the reporter said. Some people say that you're just doing this for attention and my grandfather looked at her like she was an idiot or he was like. Well, of course, I'm doing this for attention. How am I going to preach to these people? If I don't

have their attention, your transition out of it starts, and I guess oh nine, when you join twitter death, you're dead dog, which I urge everyone to see its tremendous. You really detail this whole experience in your urging people who would like to challenge other people's beliefs to use force step. So maybe we can talk about the four steps because I think there wonderful and they're, the ones that ultimately broke through to you yeah. I got on twitter to spread the church's message. Initially the responses that I got. There were very much like what I experience on the picket line, a lot of anger and reflecting the same kind of hostile, the implication provocation that people felt from me and then there were these individuals who just used these to meet the very basic tactics I'm centrally in that ted talk, I'm just describing what people did for me. So the force tat, the first one is: don't assume bad intent. because it immediately cut you off from being able to understand

gross angrily. I seen people in their own context, because if you believe that they are doing this on purpose, if they are purposely doing what they know is wrong in the various yeah, you get laws of exactly like what hoped you have of changing their minds. They have to eat defeated right at the sense. Second point was asked questions for a number of reasons like first that's the thing that helps you understand where they're coming from, so that you can address what they actually believe. But there is also this other point, which is that when you ask people questions and you give them an opportunity to be heard that sense of feeling heard, I think, also makes us more likely to listen. These people are asking me all these questions from like going on and on about. I have a lot of things to tell you, because I memorized all these bible verses and then I get to the end of it and then what it's like, or what have you

yeah, but what it? What do you make of this like? How could you possibly disagree with their asking questions is actually a really powerful tool I feel like they seem very obvious, but they're not easy. From my perspective, we are all the product of our biology and our upbringing. Our environment is host. It's really funny epigram. My book is this line from the great ass be. This has reserving judgments is a matter of infinite hope. Oh I like I love it so much. That was one of the things that I read yoke ass. It was chad's profile picture when he was anonymous on twitter. Back in the day was Robert redford as jay gatsby yeah fresh years, don't live in west egg and I went back to reread that. I'd read it in high school, and that was near the beginning of the book. Even for people who seem to be doing really bad The things, the recognition that who they are in this moment isn't who they have to be forever. remember, said six, fifty two robert suppose, ski

then you look at some interesting things about stress. So who's your two years old, your stressed at home, because you are growing up in poverty and you bruce lousy and your parent parents serve you ever ran their stressed is helped by age. Five, you take kids, kindergarten and the socio economic status of their families is a predictor of how either a cordial levels are going to be when they're just sitting there quietly and you put him in a brain scanner and by age five. If you made this stupid decision to be born into a poor family, your front door, it takes already maturing more slowly than average, are already starting to pay the price for it. Is so screwed up here, study last your brain imaging techniques. First couple of studies were you, It now do imaging on a foetus. His brain wall, you look at it'll brains and you

get mom socio economic now, and what Words or levels were like in her bloodstream, which gets across the placenta and into the branch and during life. Others ass, he s is already impacting degree of which your brain is growing, and presumably they magdal s growing as well at an asymmetrical right, yet critics who's, the lahti, your mom stress, hormones, Roy you, a foetus and as an adult you'll have a bigger macao, might more reactive, and here It was a real horror of it as an adult. He had a bigger nicht, a little more reactive and secretes, more stress hormones, and thus, when you get pregnant your feet, this is gonna, be exposed more of your stress hormones and torn given a large to make to love and eagles

multigenerational cycle and when they said traumas passed down. That's a biological reason. Why year, in addition to maybe also up a genome, is well right, moms passing down her up a genome. My road about europe expects its doesn't change your genes, but he changes there regulation? Is there and a whole lot of their stress hormones common. All over your fetal brand. You do at the genetic things you fuck with it. so that certain on and off switches are stuck in the off position forever after an original and the opposition, and he got that out. That's part of the instructions of what kind of brain or you constructing, so that you either go out and succeed or don't in the world of what you say, a man he's hold a gun he's in a riot and someone's approaching an

they pull someday. Now it looks like it could be a gun, the man shoots, and we say what happened one second before he shot what most what rooms will ask at that point is what happened once before and once we know the answers to that were set. Did they I intend to shoot. Did he realized what the consequences would be Did he realized? They were alternatives, he could have done something else in the answer to all this is yes, me say: ok, that's it. There was intent. He should be held. Responsible The problem with looking at one second before one minute before is doing asking. Where did that in? and come from in the first place, not if you Had that intent, the time weird, hadn t come from it as something. The two with the guy was hungry or stressed your sleepy or afraid or happy that minute he's got something to do with what I swear. I'm all lovers were this morning if he was

creating a lot accord, the sole his frontal cortex wouldn't be there good it sank, wayward stop! That's not a handgun, that's a sulphur! Don't do it don't do it did the guy goes HU, a trauma and the previous couple years, because the structure his brain would have changed and then your to add in lesson. Building ask your prefrontal cortex child in culture and three names environment. Again, europe is poor and ready this having affecting your brain and genes breton, then? If you have this one gene right emil alpha what happens, then it comes in a couple of years. Flavors and studies from rats and monkeys and stuff suggested that if you had one flavors. You were more likely to be violent in the courtroom. Somebody even once had somebody sentence lessened, citing that they had the equal warrior gi and then really beautiful, thorough studies. Looking that people were, you know what their genetic make up is, and you look at it

burthened your same which of them had anti social violence by his twenty five herself. Any answer is, if you had the bad version of that gene, were you likely to be more? violent than average. By the time you were an adult, and the answer was yes. If, only if you were abused, there's a child. It like turns jeanne on almost yes, if you Weren't abused it didn't matter. If you that scary variant. It's not true Eric inevitability, use, genetic vulnerability, jean advice, interaction stuff and genes we're in principle? If you ve got the bad version, you should be more like we get clinically depressed, isn't adult. If and only if you wish major stresses the child other cheese in this culture. If you have this gene very into your more likely to become alcoholic than chance, but in this culture doesn't have any effect. Why did that person pull the trigger and you gotta

firsthand? What was happening a second ago and what happening a million years ago and everything in between, because all of us went into all. That person was going to be at tat instant, stay to arm chair, diffused air. in episode, five sixty seven alison roman, so you are inner interview and you are launching some partnerships, some capsule product with materials of love material, and in that you made so here's where I'll be critical of you just didn't talk shit about anyone ever that is again, making that this is where I like. This is my moral judgment of you. Are you kidding me he'll talk suitable people do that was like far and away the biggest takeaway and obviously came from such like a place of insecurity,

unlike me, being prohibited under my oh, my god, so much jealousy. Ok, I had this like little parcel of ice. Cook lady and I do the cooking and then there's like other people doing it that are like beautiful and payments that are as how dare they, who gives a shit, and why did I have to make a comment on that too? In, my own value rights that's the only thing for me and I really like that's a bummer. I think we'd all aspire to be bigger than that totally ok. Now, because it people you criticize because they were both asian that was painted as a racist. Yes, point of view, now. An allegation of racism economy requires near type whoever to act but again what percentage of the world thought you are racist when they saw that

I have a hard time, believing I don't know of nine point. Four percent in my perception was: it was a hundred percent sure, of course, in the whole world new, probably right, oh yeah, hundred yeah yeah. That's an example of being like, oh, you said something super fucking stupid really born from place of jealousy childishness insecurity, all this other stuff, that's obviously not coming from a well person, and you like, oh, that the dumb, but now your thing it's also this other thing lazy is like, oh god that was such a gaff. It then becomes like scar. Let her on your person who had for the rest, your life? I can see why that was interpreted that way and I would never discount somebody saying that that's how they felt for that instance, because it was like we only name to people they happen about be when I will end here like ok. Yes, I see that looks really fucking bad

and then you lead. I might I promise you I'm just jealous petty and stupid. I'm not raise the or whatever so to recall cohesion, and I now, but you know what are you gonna talk rose right there at all, because murray content of forbes magazine, I was on my kitchen table and I just read this: Article about her literally take the night before, and I literally was cleaning up my pantry when I was giving his interview. Don't ever do that again, I looked over and I was like, like this person and like this part I was naming like the two most famous people. I can imagine in that space. I didn't give it a fucking second thought which was such like a frankly, ignorant and, moreover, in my party, messiah rookie mistake what I interpret it in the moment as oh, that was shitty, then almost ruined my life right now, because I love the rapid fire sort of spreading of such me and is also a timer pandemic had just happen. I was very popular at the time because before cooking a lotta, and so it was like a perfect storm of

I was top of mind. I was not really a celebrity, and so I was this regular person at this thing was happening to that. I think encouraged more people to talk about it. Kindly when Julia fox became famous so like I know her, I see who's in now she is dating Conny like you want to talk about it. I was like in this court and quote few: did you defenders of that period, I'm sure of it, two dark for me till you have in the look to see any one. I had worked with Annie one of my friends like no one publicly wanted to stick their neck out because it was such an intensive. I meant for anyone at that time. I don't begrudge anybody like mccarthyism. It's like oh one's, going to I dunno. If he was at that meeting, I moved oh yeah and I think that when people say like oh you weren't canceled, I sort of I'm like well. I was unless you litter, we die housed with divine cancellation and right because I was cancelled ruins of ours.

It's just that, nobody would hire me for anything. I made my own work phone did not ring. The email box was at zero. It was dark, it was. I was like oh nobody's going to ever want to work with me. No one's going to hire me, so I have to then create my own ecosystem. This is a win, new phenomena of the last year. I think there needs to be examples of what is the post castle, landscape and there's gonna be advisable pass in ones that, like give you just sit around all ones such and such paper gonna hire me again. I know you're in there you are cancelled for me I dislike. While I have to continue to do the work make us about the work, because I really believe in that, but also I hope to have. very long and storied career and that's gonna be a shitty part of it. That's gonna be like a debit. I can't just have a meteoric rise, send for ever and ever cause I'm a human person. I think it would be really helpful to people goes people experience much smaller versions.

but very reliable words like oh, my god, my life's over my friendship circle, hates me whatever that core community they have, they lose people. Do that. Can you think of some turning points, or there was breakthroughs? You must have just swallowed in it for a while, it was so dark. I lost a few friends in the process that that friendships are probably a little curious to begin with. They were mostly white. Women are also showing hundred, but one really important person to me was like in our wedding. I made her wedding dessert like I was like we were very close and that was really painful, but everywhere else in my life was like. I know you, I love you. I stick by you you'll get through this. Had I not had I would have been a nightmare minister. Wasn't it whereby it took a really really long time to be able to leave the house with confidence, and I was really fortunate that we were wearing mask that the time because I felt like it was the only thing that protected me from this deep pit of shame. Every time I left the house because I, make eye contact with someone on the street? And I

If they know who I am, and they fucking hate me and think, I'm a racist was just going to say it's others that you are called a racist on its own you're called a racist at the beginning of the Yo m me: I've met me the time like there's literally gonna, be margins down and hiring words like higher for raising. I now really bad timing. There asked the board I now I wasn't like that. Aren't who I am. I am yours, like I'm bad like. I am saddened that I went really inward. I made myself a small, I have zero confidence. I was so shrouded in shame, ivy league in a territory now by our joy, joy you'd have another one lack of honestly when people first started telling me that you're into my recipes, I was like that. You know what I did because, like you're, not lady. You know I'm like oh she's, a smart inform person. She must not know because if she did, of course, I I feel like I am very online anytime. I received any sort of praise or like feedback from somebody that wasn't white person.

I was like, oh my god, I'm not the fucking worst. Nobody I knew I was gonna cry and you know we're all crying. Take our clothes. Everyone's gonna be really connective.

the mattresses, six eleven neil peace, a lot of people have heard of something called chaos, theory and or the geometry that goes with that fractals than this comes to the scaling thing which we may come back to it. So you might look at a tree in its totality tree and then you might find a few carve a piece off of it and you look at it under a microscope. You might be shocked to find that the little piece of the tree actually looks almost identical to the big tree or seen, and that's fractals yeah. You don't even have to cut a piece off just look at the trunk and then see where it branches those each look like a trunk, those branch into smaller branches. Each of those looks like a trunk on and on until you get the twigs, and so the thing about fractals is that their scale invariant, no matter how close you look or you look at it microscopically the way the bark is forming looks like the way the bark is forming dick. Yes, please

woods from a distance look puffy. But if you go closer, you feel like. Why aren't I getting closer because you see smaller puffs and smaller puffs in an airplane? You can't always judge how far you are away, and so it just looks like the same thing, regardless of how close or far you are, and these jean my trees occur all over the place. So if you look at a satellite view of a river bed and the way a river branches into a delta, but I can show you pictures if I dont tell you that it's a river bed, I could tell you Oh, this is a picture of blood vessels and what can I tell you? It looks the same. Do use apple tv, yes, I'd so apple tv has he's great screen. Savers that come on maybe four days ago, watching one that is a satellite view of a river system and at first I thought that's so weird their showing us some kind of cardiovascular system, bright,

I seen it one way and suddenly see it. Another way. People have asked me on occasion after I've, given talks on all this stuff. What's enlightenment like like, I would know, but what I say to them is it's that moment where you thought it looked sway, and then you see it that way that awakening moment right right. You exactly. Right. So it's all a matter of you come in with a sort of assumptions about what things are, and this gets into laxity theory, you hear a sound in the sky and you look up and you see a dark funny shape. Is it a balloon? Is it a ship? And then you realize no, it's a memorandum of starlings. It's a flock of birds. I loved the startling yeah. So when you look up if you're at the right vantage point, you might look at the group of starlings and see, it has one object and now we zoom in and what do we see its interacting birds and looks like a thing? But it's not a thing. It's interacting smaller things. You go in deep enough to the microscopic level and there's no starling. It's just cells into it.

We need to spend one second there. The notion that we're not one item is really abstract, because our only inner action with it is as one cohesive you know it's only abstract because were trained to nazi yes and my professional training, because I'm a pathologist. What that means is I look at biopsies from people's tissue. Under the microscope all the time, so I'm seeing people at the cellular level hours every day, yeah right and so I live at that level of scale. I've had dreams, I never have flying dreams. Did you have dreams, never has. Of course you are right. I figure on gotta get results began. I've had around all the fine report only ray I'm the numerous sell, your businesses. I always fly just three feet off the ground. Now,

so I know what you guys think I was up in the sky like doing somersault, but you flew the only time I've ever had a fucking dream. I was flying over a liver slot and I was fly. in the tissue in the valley up over the peaks and part of me lives at that level of scale. My training allowed me to open up complexity theory. The way I do at the level of the cell. The bird ceases to exist the way at the level of the birds the flock ceased to. our bodies are nothing but cells. Interacting with each other flocks of central billions of sell that organise themselves, from the bottom up and there's no cell in the body. That's figuring out. Do I need data, my hungry. Do I need to sleep, but my tired, I my horny Am I excited, I might depressed they're all doing their thing, interacting with each other. At the local level, someone told me,

Starlings pay attention to seven other starlings around. If that's the correct number, how they got too it is, you can computer model all these things and that's what lead to chaos. Theory and complexity is ones. You had come peters, you could model how things interact overtime, anyone self hinges how it's gonna behave. The whole system is china, yeah, so in buddhist terms, that's interdependence right and that the way the world exists depends on every single, tiny piece of it and they are all connected to each other and the slightest change down here can yield vast changes. A significant difference between complex systems and chaos is that camp systems always have a little bit of randomness in their system? This is really key and that makes them predictably unpredictable. Chaos was predictably predictable complexity. You can't ever tell where it's going and the importance of this low level ran

as I often use aunt colonies. So I was sitting in a san guarded in kyoto ones and there was with syria branch in front of me, and there were ants going up the mysterious branch, two columns of ants going up and one column of ants coming down, and after that trip I came home and I went into the subway. and see in essex in new york city, lower side and there's a stairwell there. That's particularly wide compared to most subway systems, and it was russia were- and there were two columns of people going up. side coming guy and none of them knew what they were doing, more than the ants knew what they were doing. They were all just I've, gotta go home and get in, together, oh I've, gotta meeting, I have to go to my can't wait to go home and yeah, there's no rule to walk this and yet it was arising, and this is what complex systems do we call that emerging self organization? If you remember from

track matter and anti matter, let's say an electronic positron positrons electron, but with a positive church if they hit each other. They annihilate and become energy again. oh you, have these particles popping up and self annihilating and sinking back down into the energy field, so that's called the quantum phone. I love them This idea that the smallest levels of scale- it's just this bubble- conceiving foam of particles coming in and out of existence. Sometimes those particles don't self annihilate. Sometimes they survive long enough to interact with each other when they do that. What are they doing their interacting and they fulfil all the principles of a complex system all for rule, so they interact with each other to become larger, subatomic particles. Those interact become, comes to become molecules to become cells and everything else in the entire universe, so the entire universe is one complex system and there

no thing identifiable anywhere. That is in fact a thing as at the lowest level of scale, is just want him foam, a quantum foam yeah I get some of that. yeah. I like to order some on amazon, like do a shout of quantum foam bud morning, to kick it into high gear, but we are quantum foam sure, there's no piece of us that isn't quantum you already have You know you more than I want more of everything I have. This is very well send him with my right now, so work one phone. So this is where we go next. This is how you get all the quantum Oh I got it. I see the segway coming right. You look at an ant colony from a distance and it looks like a thing you go in close servants just and then you go into the ants closer and it's just cells at different levels of scale. You have a different appearance. What else changes as you go across scales, so at this level of scale there are four people in this room. We are separate and our edge

Are our skin? None! That's the way we grow up. Thinking of ourselves, we like boundary it's right, but when you go down to the cellular level, where are your boundaries? So the first thing is that you're sloughing dead skin cells off the top of your skin all the time and that's a lot of the dust in our rooms, which is really a little disgusting. When you think about it, we just had the grossest episode of our life with someone that rented an air bnb and their psoriasis over the course of two months. The person thought that someone had taken a bag of flower and thrown at all over the world perfect, so where is the boundary of that person with psoriasis where our boundaries it's at least the space that you said it holmes, your offices etc, but that's dead stuff. Now we know about the micro buyer and we each have signature micro biomes that our own micro by the ultimate fingerprint, except that, if you have people you live with and pets like cats and dogs,

For example, within a short time, you're micro biomes merge into a single microbes. A household microbe like so, when I grow biome on hearing and everything, you touch your leaving my grow by on behind and you pick it up from other people. So you kiss someone microbe, I am exchange, you touch adorn I've been someone else, touches that doorman microbiology keyboards pencils, forks, knives, couches, and so where are your boundaries at the sailor level, your boundaries, or at least as wives, the spaces you inhabit? So at the lower level of scale or boundaries got out further. That's a spatial version, but how about in time, if you take your body and all yourselves your human cells and go back to yesterday, all your current cells derived from cells yesterday, if you go back ten years, they derive from those cells. If you go back to your teenage years from those all and continuity, no separation go by

to your childhood years, you're toddler years, you're infant years, and then you re, enter your mother's womb and you go back to being an embryo when you go back to that sperm in that egg and that in your mom, was present in her body at the time she was born There is no separation between you, your mom, your grandmother keep going back go back three. in one thousand years to when we weren't even homo sapiens, were homo erectus back to homo habilis Thank you for listening overruns. Let's that's farther than I can go, but then all the way back to early animals down to as as we can tell, there was a single cell progenitor, I don't we even like to compartmentalize evolution. We like to think of it as having all this punctuation There there's no separation, there are no boundaries, so at the cellular levels and time were part of the whole biomass of the plan. Everything alive.

well. There's no outcome in our body that we didn't breathe, eat or drink from the plan, so we Think of ourselves as these beings that are separate walking around. On top of this rock we call planet earth or where the earth that has, at the atomic level self organize, organise its outcomes over three and a half billion years to people who have the misconception that their simple, but in fact our boundary is the tire planet and what science tells us we are isn't the materialist view that says aware: depended individuals and politically, or we should all have certain freedoms etc. All of that's true at this level of scale, but it's also true that we are simply expressions of the reverse in every moment and we are seamless and not separate from each other. The.