Oh welcome everyone to episode sixteen of true crime, all the time. ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner and true crime might gibson gibbey? What's the word was happened, a man not much re dead. Do this great story we ve got picked out, for everybody has a great story, but it's a sick want. This really! May we come up with some of the sector, and this is one of the sickest ones

we say that a lot, but I know it's like we keep topping very sick in the sickness level. Yeah, somehow You gotta give a shout out to couple new supporters of the show. marcy is our newest patriarch supporter, so big thanks goes out to marcy and also thank you too samantha. She actually made a controversy. And through paypal, oh cool, thank you both yeah, thanks to both of you very much as always visit our website. It true crime, all the time, dot com you find oliver contact, information, social, media email vote May we haven't had a voice mail while yeah it's been awhile. So if anybody wants to three one out there linsey that's what we hope will play it deprives muslims again, you can support them, patron dot com, slash true crime the time or through pay pal, like samantha, did and definite

don't forget about our new podcast, true crime, the time unsolved. If you have a checked it out, if you have haven't subscribed deaf. do that you know it's a say. Format, as this one as true crime all the time. The only did and is we pick unsolved cases at the only difference, now. Most of you are familiar with Jeffrey Dahmer. We covered him in multiple episodes. What a twisted individual mind of a monster from iD is out with a fourth season about Jeffrey Dahmer, on mind of a monster doctor. Michelle war takes us through the story, starting with damas childhood and the first murder all the way through his death. The podcast features jaw dropping never before heard audio recordings from the detectives, journalists and others close to the case too, floor, exactly what happened and how.

His killer, came to be so. This sounds like a very deep dark and for me, anytime, you get never before heard audio from people very close to the case, Ahmet, listen to mind of a monster on apple podcasts, spotify or wherever you get your podcasts, alright gimme Today we are talking about David parker re here. What's his nickname, I the toy box killer. How can it jumped out at me? this guy's was a cereal rapists and suspected serial killer, and there again we'll cover why we're using the word suspected as we go long? But you know his crimes, probably, spanned forty years when undetected for forty years, because estimate what How many has many, a sixty I've seen victims suspected were sand suspected because, technically,

They never found any body right which kind of hard to you. We know it's hard to convict murder without the body without body it can be done, but it becomes harder. It's pretty strong evidence, there's a year. There was a lot of evidence and will go through that and also he was accused by his accomplices of killing people and spected by police, like, as we said, to have more as many as sixty people in both areas in new mexico. We start ya. Wanna play this clip of David parker

okay. I get my excitement from making alone what happened. My trailer had numerous sex toys of different types, all different fetishes. I get pleasure out of the woman getting pleasure. I did what they wanted me to do so. Yeah, creepy, creepy, so that the measure they were that willing. Now I am colombia on some of the stuff he say in their absolute here. He made it sound like he was doing yeah doing these, these women a favor and and as we go along everybody see that definitely wasn't the case. You know mentions in their his trailer and and

we'll talk about his trailer is is what he called it: his toy box air and that's how he got the nickname, the two inbox killer, the one hundred thousand dollar toy box or the somebody else describes it as the hundred thousand dollar torture dungeon, just the pictures. I saw alone freaked me out man. Oh my gosh. If you go online and look, there is a lot of pictures of the trailer. So let's talk about david parker raise early life? There's not, that's known, you lot lot at times on these episodes. We have a lot of information, but there were a whole lot. We do know. Was born in november, nineteen, thirty nine and a place called I'm gonna call it bolin new mexico or balan somebody's going to crack me, but that's ok, as a child he live with. His grandfather

he still saw his father. I don't know where his mother was in this whole picture, but he had contact with his father apparently his father was was a mean guy and impeding so it s, grandfather the ep in his grandfather. Wasn't the bass guy here so yeah? He grew up with. With that. He had a younger sister, but they were split up pretty early. I think when his grandmother died. You know we talk about How people didn't school a lot and raided? He did very poorly by all accounts yeah and he was bullied to say he was picked on. Wasn't a yeah he's picked on a lot in school, talked about because he was shy around girls, not sure why that's a reason to be picked on, but you know kids back then especially boeing's a big deal today.

Back. Then it wasn't. There was a lot of bullying that went on report. It yes, unreported. Thank you, sir you know when we get into his teenage years, gibbs. This is where he starts abusing our call on drugs. And that is a cycle before do. I have seen this cycle before Yeah I mean we see this alot right, bad childhood, mixed with abuse of alcohol, drugs, abuse of family abuse of family. It's like we seti its around this time that his stir discovered some drawings that ray had and these were not drawings. you would normally see it associate with a teenager right now we're talking about, sado masochism, erotic bondage. So

at this point in an early age he's into some freaky, yes style, not what you would have thought you'd find back and gosh would have been what early fifties, because he was born in thirty nine. So you know that yeah. So as a teenager, that would have been the fifties, evens even more strange back then absolutely then it would be. It wouldn't be great today, but in the fifth at least, it has been for sure something more rare, yeah. That's definitely not leave, the beaver, so as re gets into adulthood, he gets a job The mechanic and he does some time in the military and again, like you, said right see. We ve seen this before now there was a lot of guys in the military back then this is the paralleling lake and inga little in this,

Areas is very late in English. Yet if that's that's a word, I could not but work ahead and will vote will go with it anyway. Ferguson word: yes, if you remember back to lake and or if you haven't heard it near, they were both in the in the military. Now he apparently didn't I'm, not that I He didn't have any problems while he was in the military yeah. He got an honourable discharge. to the military. He was married four times or time for time each one ending in divorce. You're. Out of those four marriages. He had two daughters. one of the daughters he lived with for a period of time as sites at some when, after this that that David re moves to elephant butte new mexico, which is pretty close to the town of truth or consequence. Which I love. That name. Where have you been there? I have it. I'm shocked

every episode, you say you ve been to the play we're talking about so what about through their concept? once you know anything about the name is obviously it's weird name, that is where name so, apparently and I'm sure I'm going to get some details wrong and some bio correct me. But back in the fifties there was radio show called truth or consequences, They ran some kind of deal on the show that simply said the first town that rename itself to be called truth or consequences. They would air. Though, the radio show, on its tenth anniversary from this town, so Now how big a deal was, but this town called hot springs right which was its original name- I guess, got together and said: hey we'll do it. Let's do it

They officially change their name to treat their consequences, and so they did that tenth anniversary show, I think, from drifting off the truth or consequences, but also after that, if the guy that did the show, apparently he would no they're every year for the next fifty years, our guilt I know how that made. You change your net, he made them change your name, so there's still a saying yeah, it's still still truth or consequences. Really. I always just get a kick out of it, because I, like the name so, let's get into a little bit of the toy box, nickname breakers, every time you see david parker ray, you will see the toy box killer right so that that was his nickname. And I think you mentioned the fact that he had spent, hundred thousand dollars to basically transform some type of.

I dunno if as a motor home or it was a truck with a camper on it, but it was something like that and all mobile home yeah any. He spent all this money to train to transform the inside of this. In you a tortured in an apparently it had whips chains, cattle prods, again, ecology, chair, spreader bars, spreader bars, whatever the hell that and just all kinds of other devices and most of them were four. Inducing some type of pain right on his eventual victims, surgical like steel tables and yeah, just yeah all kinds The weird stuff I mean well think about, I dont know when he spent this hundred thousand dollars, but depending on, Europe was me one thousand dollars a lot of money today be like to fifty

right. So whenever he did this, if it was thirty, forty. years ago, first forward How'd you get a hundred thousand dollars in order to get all this quick member, not somebody you asking I mean he had a lot of medical stuff in there, even at a lower grade generator that he used to do a little shock treatment on his on his victims to re kidnaps, his first victim by dragging Her gives her back to this motor homeward or the toy box, as will call it and basically proceeds sexually saw her for, a number of days without mercy, and he ultimately kills her. Now we find this out much later right at the time. Nobody knows any

this is going on, so he continues doing this for a while back, we said it's it's impossible to nail down. The total number of victims because number one they haven't found the bodies. But Surely he brings in his girlfriend. He does Cynthia hindi in its cindy hindi, which is kind of hard to say, but an she starts to help him in this crazy sexual fetish that he has asked helping what finds it helps finds the victims. Yes, she participates in a lot of the fast of these crimes and the two of them. Along with some other accomplices that you'll get brought in later probably tortured at least

forty women over some period, a time of victims and by counts. They made a number of snuff films to document what they were doing. Again. I mean to me that goes back to lake in agony there. There are a lot of similarities between this story and the likening one that we did so one thing that parker does is: he makes a tape, it's kind of famous tape. It's really hard to fine. I couldn't find the whole thing on the internet, which you can find is the transcripts and there's a whole bunch of people that will read it, but it's not his voice but what I was able to find a bunch of different snippets of him reading parts of it. So

when a play this because very important and then we'll talk about it. The ankles to change your day because you're not going to like the way I do it you're going to be kept here negative chain down. I say that I'm cold and I must treat people like. I do objects as a means to mount weather and I suppose you're right that certain extent you are expendable. It may sound harsh and cold, but I won't have any qualms at all about slicing your throat

obviously, here against your will, you will be raped thoroughly and repeatedly in every holy of god, they're going to be kept like an animal. As far as I'm concerned, you're a pretty piece of mate you're, not gonna. Remember a bucket thing about this little adventure be smart and be a survivor have a nice day. Alright, so Well, I mean imagine that you are you, wake up after being drugged pro Thirdly, you're in this you're chained up in this toy box- and you have to leave- and but from what I understand, this was a pretty long tape. Oh yeah I mean I, I read the transcript of the wa one, and I mean it very detailed. It could have been twenty thirty minutes. I know I think probably was, and so my

you're, standing as he would play this tape, when they, when the the person that he had kidnapped, would come around, they would have to listen to this I mean just imagine the fear that that person had to be experiencing at that point sure not know where you're on a cold table chained. Looking around seen all the different objects around when our. What's this about, and then here that that they decide voice alone, creepy would forget, hear what he says he said neck. It we're always freaks me out. but that was some of the clean stuff at you clear, so that I mean that's just a small sum snippet of it, but right you can imagine that most of the descriptions on those that tape is much worse than what you just heard there

what's the the people that David parker ray and ultimately cindy hindi would help him out with the most of the people that they would kidnap, they were sex workers, a lot of em and he who add know one of the the ruses that he used was to pretend to be a police officer. And I think even had like a badge that they would find later, but he would kind of play like an undercover cop right and would act like he was busting them for prostitution and then he would take them back to the toy box. And that's when you know the bad stuff would start, they would hear the tape and they would be tall.

injured know. Again. We talked about. I mean this thing's filled with sex toys, surgical instruments, chains, pulleys saws saws. You mentioned spreader bars, which I'm still not even sure what that is yeah I like spreader bars, yeah, may probably that's what it is: yeah yeah we we talked about a a gynecology table and then so to go with that

he mounted this big mirror yeah on the top, so they can watch right. He wanted these victims to see everything that was being done to them unless he decided he didn't want cause. Sometimes he did this thing. He had his black box that he inserted their head in so that they could hear, but they couldn't see what was going to happen next. So again, he just did that to to mess with them. So just I mean just yeah a sick, individual yeah. There there's no doubt about it, but you know like lake and ng. He recorded a lot of this torture yeah. That's why you know you kind of wonder if that did likening you to find him separating or vice versa. I think that's a good point because you see maybe not so much copycat, but you see serial killers

learning from other sit in a people that came before them more right, yeah? Maybe he always had now. We think we know he had this these fast nations where these fetishes around an early age and it it could be that that spark something in it if they. If they came before him, but like we said you know, he would record the torture, sometimes with just audio, sometimes with with a video camera and like any serial killers, because again we're assuming and by all accounts people believe that not only tortured these women, but he ultimately killed them. I don't think that's much of a stretch to get to that conclusion because if he was torturing and letting them all go, they would have spoken up, yeah yeah, I mean

so where all the, where are all these women- and we know few- out of the woodwork right. But majority dart! Yes, so why is that most likely because they were killed exactly and dumped somewhere cause, he says and have it in his own tape. I will not hesitate to slit your throat yeah, and I think he carried through with that on on on the cases but like I was gonna say like alive, serial killers, he took trophies, and that is a hallmark that we see a lot. That is your serial killers liked to take trophies, since they can either read live the x. variances here they whatever that trophy, is that bring brings back. The sexual memory, sexual aspect, it later on. Somebody clothing and jewelry, and you know a lot of different things like that:

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I'm a them we're gonna talk about, but I think there were. I don't think he killed every day. We know. We know he didn't, kill kabul cause they come forward. I think there some others, because he did draw All these women from what I read his. He had a cocktail that he thought was designed to, basically cause amnesia and so you know two or three days he's he's keeping this cocktail going, and then he let some of these people go. And apparently they don't come forward or they come forward and and people don't believe, m yeah you're gonna write off bell now, the outer one for sure we know now Use like we talked about Cindy hindi is kind of a central figure, in this case because she was parkers girlfriend and she asked

I participated in a lot of these crimes right give. So we know what parkers doing right he's been act as fur. Time. We don't really know all the victims, because, please don't know all the victims now, so we can you know, go through omen and do some of that we would normally do we do we just know he what he likes. Yes, he talks about in his tapes. When he goes on search. He stopped on the high level trying to find attractive well built women. First, he has a tight he ever sharp and then his wound to ass. The night goes while he's willing to drop his type down a little bit, but not too much he'll come down a little bit and then, after that, if he can't get that he won't just settle so that he talks about in his tape. This is what I want, but I'll be willing to go to this, and

That's it method. Toby doesn't if he doesn't fine. What he's looking for her way to await, but now we get to. another central figure in the case, because this The point where everything crumbles for David Parker re right, so he goes out and like we talked about, he uses this this rule of posing as undercut police officer, Annie approaches. A woman named cynthia v hill he told her. She was under arrest for prostitution. I think he did this quite a bit and he handcuff sir. He does so. That again. I think he use that a lot, that's how he was able to number one once you handcuff somebody. makes it a hell of a lot easier to get him in what vehicle. You haven't, get him back to wait where you want to get em

and this is march twenty second of nineteen ninety nine, when cynthia escapes from the toy box, so he it picked her up. He had held her fur. What two or three days I've got three day out three days on the twenty second she's able to escape and the way she It was was fascinating to me yeah, because she'd been tortured for probably three days and What she did she waited for re to go to work. when re was at work. It was Cindy that way, in charge of looking after making sure send a handy, cindy, hindi. It was.

Job to make sure that the victims stayed put. I guess for a lack of a better word. Cynthia who's the victim here is able to. overpower cindy drinks her on the head with a lamp, tries to knocker out first, she was able she did What happened was that Cindy hindi left the keys to the walks out only wrangle, because that's just I had to get out of that for right than the hindi made a mistake of leaving those out. Visual and Cynthia sees it and she's able able to undo the hammer straits. Yet they thanks for correcting me because you're absolutely right because he kept them collar tackled. They got a collar, their shack, older men did. This was not a comfortable situation. Despite airmail

eve and naked or I'll even say, even on top of all the torture in between the torture they were kept in. You know all the shackles couldn't it had just been miserable, every part of it. You know how to be. I mean I can't even imagine ok, so europe. She gets the keys because Cindy's left him out. She is able to undo her were strained, sir shackles or whatever call him here and then that's when she strikes cindy on the head, with a lamp, tries to knocker out She also stabbed her in the neck at one point with an ice pick, not sure why there's an ice pick laying around, but that could have been part of the torture for for all. We know yeah, so cynthia stabs, Cindy Hendy and then lie in the neck. With an ice pick. Yes to try to just to play,

You can t see. The frustration idea is my wanting to get out of here. I'm gonna do it our whatever I came here. She was incomplete, panic get away at all costs mode, but how is that an ice pick was hanging around well, that's. What I'm saying was that part of of the sick mobile of the all the weird shit that had not toy boxer would air something that they used to serve, Tom Collins, I don't know, I'm going go with the first, I'm gonna get me too so cynthia, because its we're, because they're both name right. So cynthia and sandy said cynthia is the victim, she's but to get away but, like you said, she's naked. she's got this iron collar around her neck and chains. Probably hanging offer her she's unlocked the locks but she's the chains, or probably

honor, right and she's able to get away, and she makes it to a nearby mobile home, not on the door, the owner, let's ran that must have been a site. You can imagine that now of any real Lady shows up naked in a collar air screamin, I'm sure yeah, I'm sure at what would you think so late let's ran and calls nine one one. I want to play that right now,. for a young lady that ran the big ride, got her honor and everything right away. The panel said they'd been cold enough for three days, so the lady said naked too, but it's totally naked down. There must be but again like you said what I mean: what a shark

that it must have been for this lady three days. But the strange thing about this is that police officers we're already en route to David parker raise house really yeah, because I think what it what had happened was syn had tried to call nine one one, but wasn't able to do anything with it? Ok, but it must have connected enough to Write them, have a go out yes and see what it was about. Yes, They were already on their way to his place and when they get the call over the radio to go here, which I'm sure this mobile home wasn't that far from from raise place here and you're, so they get cynthia and she tells them everything and their able to go and

question both david parker ray and Cindy hendy. Ultimately, they arrest them on. You know some kidnapping charge, but while they are being questioned, they're trying to get out of it right read in hindi and their claim is that they yeah they abducted cynthia v hill, but the reason they did it is because they were trying to get help her get off of her heroin addiction. So he was being a good guy. Yeah he's good samaritan. Riah, do in your favour, like a forced rehab here, but that didn't last too long because it didn't take the police. Officers very long, defined the toy box and Say did they discovered all the crazy stuff that we already talked about sex?

Ways the- and this is where they find the full fake police badge- I guess he's keeping it in the toy box, so they find that and the tapes in the videos yeah they find all, all of that, and so at that point, they're able to charge both parker and hindi, with twelve different charges, ranging from kidnapping to assault and probably a few other thing, rape and in between yeah yeah. So I've got a couple of clips here that I want to play in a row cause they all kind of go together. Okay, the first two are act that sure Cynthia the real cynthia vehicle. Some. Let me play that scared me. Whatever One morning I walk into a restaurant, guy came up to me and told me that he had asked so I went over there and he asked A cop her meals and arrest, anything

His handcuffs on me and they had means trailer, and he told me I think, do did a lot of sick time, I was scared or they were going to catch me. I didn't know where I was going to go. I didn't know where I was at, but it was his relief. He disgusted me. He's a very sick man in the way he talks. wasn't like heat. This was before it didn't feel like. This is the first time that I just felt like. He knew what he is doing and I was ability to see my family again. If I fitting get away. I wouldn't have my wonderful voice state

he'll be here right now asking for women because what I went to the first of these people, to our people. If the companies, whether their honour na to go through what I went through, what they did. They didn't it'd make it like. I did to help these families cause. My family would have probably been going through the same thing painted a getaway. So give me, obviously this a press conference. You can hear all the pictures you snapping of

The pictures, also, what you can hear is a lot of rustling of paper yeah, and that is cynthia and basically what she has is a lot of pictures of missing women, okay and- and the other thing is that you could tell is this press conference occurred much later because she's talking about the fact that she's got three kids now and right, she wouldn't have had those, but you know, even though it was three years late, about three years there, but after three kids substantial amount of time yeah, I don't know what you're happen, yeah, but still so visits. Are you can mean you can tell that it just for her the courage it must have taken for heard even talk about it. You can t that hans her absolutely here today, so she's she's, still living yet The one thing I took from it was the fact that she said

she knew and our heart that David Parker re knew what he was doing. This was, a first time thing regime and knew that and that he had on many many times before now, I won't play second clip cause it kind of adele's into that as well. One time he said that she would kill me, like others have been if he got off on me and at one time he said that that daisy was ok. So I would say just a small clip, but the reason why, I to play that is because and when she said she she's talking about cindy right, Cindy, hindi and basically talking about how others had been killed before her

her, but that she would be all right if she did this this and this year as long as you played along yeah you're going to be okay, so I think you know, like I said, very small clip, but I I liked it because it it's sickly her saying or her knowing that other people had been killed before her right, not just kidnapped and tortured, but. killed as well and in this third, when I'm gonna play is, is from the police. Cynthia said that she was on a bed in a kind of expanded trailer house. She was naked, she was handcuffed and she had a collar around her neck with which was attached to a pole, and she was given a bucket. For a toilet. she was sexually assaulted. She were repeatedly sexually assaulted, under the impression she was gonna be killed, so she was desperate to get out

once they go inside the house. They find where cynthia had been held in the assumption living room area. They see the bed, they see the pole. That's there's some change. Manacles there there's a bucket with her waste on the floor. There was obvious signs of a struggle in disarray in the room. Obviously, what they saw did not look like the area of somebody who had been kept their voluntarily. Everything that they were seeing did nothing for them, except to add evidence in and corroboration to what cynthia their victim was telling them. There was medical equipment in and everywhere, drills modifying drills was sexual devices on them in cages, domini wishes. This believable looking dan this was

torture chamber. So that's! Obviously, after the police get in there into the the toy box, and there you know he's describing what they saw, some of the same things that we said it just you know sound so much better. Coming from the police, I guess yeah still disturbing, yeah very disturbing. So this is not the end of the investigation, though, that part continues and evidence of more victims starts to come out. Chairs is makes the headline. Yes, that causes some people to come forward, whether it was they were afraid before or whether it was they were drawn and this coming out in the news kind of sparked you're, not the right word, but in general, you know generated memories. I I don't know the answer to which one that is but

a woman named dumb, Angelica comes forward and she's telling the cops that she had been abducted by re about a month before cynthia and one was a little strange because apparently she knew David Parker. Ray and she knew Cindy hindi. Ok him both and was going over to their place to get some cake mix and kay they she knew them. They knew her and there sit. we're talking in in whatever place ray. Has I dunno if it's a house or whatever, but they're sitting there talking and ray leaves for a minute and he comes back and he has And straight away, he tells Angelica that she's gonna be kidnapped and at the same time,

Am he looks over and hindi is holding a gun aimed at her? They grabber they strip her naked and they harnessed her to the table. Okay, so, basically the same same thing there s the remo, that their ammo is pretty much the same. As I understand it, male collar, honour and this one, and I think you meant in this early on, but they had a generator. They did in the end the toy, the toy box and with Angelica they use the generator to attach electrodes to her breasts and they you're doing some kind of sick game or whatever you want to call it of sending electrical charges right to different parts of her body.

And they abused her for the same out three days that seem to be there. Yeah the heart of what their emma was to write about three days now happens with Angelica, though, is you again like? I said she knew these people here, and somehow she's able to talk them into letting her go on day for and so they put her in the car they draw, for how many miles away and they dump her on the side of the highway police officer, comes by picture. And this is where I start to get really pissed off, because Angelica reports to the police in Very very detailed way everything. That's him. under. She knows David parker raise name

she no Cindy hindus name. She knew where they live she's, telling them that these two people kidnap me and tortured and abuse me for three days. So there the please take her statement and they follow up. work, but apparently they never followed up on it. They didn't at all and that just pisses me off cause. I don't think they didn't believe her story bright, but didn't find it believable but they can't take the time to send one guy I'll be with egg raise house in at least say: hey, you know going on. Can I check this trailer yeah take a half an hour, drive out or check it out, make sure you know we're just ass. From some quiet, I don't just on justice, He acts strange yeah Obviously the heat:

said. No, you can't see the trailer there's all kinds of different things, but the fact that they did nothing that just really rubs me the wrong way because Basically, if they would have followed up on this, it couldn't have said if anybody before Angelica, but we know for a fact, it could have saved what cynthia went through and I dont know if there was any body between that month between Angelica cynthia or not but bottom line is cynthia would possibly not have had to go through what she went through here. But thank you find out, sir. You can find the theme a little bit. You know that it happens to a couple women that the police just don't believe their story right. We are going to talk about it and I am even if one told you this, you will be like her. I mean, maybe not today,

but back then, oh yeah. I made it to be tough to swallow that I'd understand what they're trying to say happened to them. It's just so bizarre. How believable could it be It would be, but as a police agency, you'd do not have the responsibility to at least check it out. I think he would I just I see and we're gonna see it probably later on, but to just dismiss these people's claims because I have- and I don't know anything about angelic. I don't know what to say. Maybe maybe she had a background. I don't know what her past was yeah, that that made them say here. Comes this crazy first northern whatever I dare. I dont want to say that, because I dont know by right you're right. Maybe there was something there that caused them to dismiss. Actually the bottom line is that day they possibly could have stopped him

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So they ultimately fine, garret or kelly and she's in colorado, alive and police work. we'll die, then a fire her through some tat too. I think that she had on her ankle. Kelly would later testify that she got in a fight with her husband and she was playing, pool at a bar with friends, and this was july- twenty fourth, nineteen. Ninety six and it was david Parker raised daughter, jesse, who we haven't talked about, we did say had it will the doctors, but one of his daughters name is Jesse was there and they were friends jesse and an kelly, we're friends.

And so there, their drinking beer in playing pool at this bar. The bar was called the blue waters alone. The daughter puts a roof, ie and garrets beer that she was drinking. So then they walk outside and raise out her. He comes up from behind in return the had knocked her out I'd so re hits com right colleague here it from behind knox. Her out, you guys, but we know Jesse was the one that lord made. It all happened. So gibbey re takes kelly back to his trailer, worse toy box. Then goes through this whole put. The collar on Lee sure chains in Basically, his whole m o and care

wakes up, and but she blacks out a bunch of times over where thinks a couple of days of torture or the refuse gap that I think, he'd. He did this alliance on if it ruthie but, like I said he havoc. What I read was he had a cocktail yeah, and this cocktail was designed to keep the victims kind of semi conscious cloudy yeah mindset, but he thought it was And also like, I said, cause amnesia yeah and he was hoping that that would be beneficial. You know for him. I bet in in the long run so Kelly's drugged and and for whatever reason- and I don't know if you have this but re decides to slash her throat- and I dont know what the

and was if she made him mad, were you know well an his. He tells us that he will hesitate at all this to slash your throat so clearly she did something that he may get upset when he slashed her throat Yeah you're right he did say that so if she did something that was against the rules, that's possibly what could have precipitated it, so he slashes her throat. Then he thinks she's dead, Then he takes her and dumps are on the side of the road, but she's not dead, he finds, sir. They take her to the hospital and she's treated and survive The problem is she tell the story, just like Angelica right and nobody believes-

not even her husband right, not only the police didn't believe or her own husband s liver. Not only did she go through this to three days of pure torture in someone's life. Is her neck there is out for dead, Own husband doesn't believer in actually divorces are over it because he thinks she's been cheating on yeah is when she, after he divorces, are this is when she relocate to colorado right. So, let's, let's listen to Kelly. We always ended up here no matter where we started. This is where we quit there is to be little. Many bar sitting here- pull tables right. There. there we were playing porn I had ordered a beer and I to take one of my trunk friends home again.

Back in some of my other friends left the evening. It was just me and jesse. Jesse re david start I just remember being on her couch, her dad's couch. That's when they held the knife to my throat. But the dog cholera that tape the. And I ended up tied to a table She survives and is able to tell her story, but again, like we talked about with some others mean that it's gotta be haunting sure for her I'd. I don't know how often she re that he or she went through serious serious ordeal. Keep robbery will realise that every day

wooden doubted it at all. I don't know how you get out of your head. Besides, Kelly and it's horrible. What happened to her the cree that one of the crazy things about this is so we know parkers in doing this and we know Cindy hindi. His girlfriend has been helping him and now he's got his own daughter somehow to help him in his sick will fail Seaworld world yan is in his sick, fetish yeah. Why? where you want to call it. I I just. I can't believe that, but it's true, it is true. We know it's true and we'll find out even more about why we know it's true right. So we've talked I've talked to a couple of times about this drug cocktail, and I think it was on one of the tapes. I don't know if you remember this or not gibi, I didn't listen to all the tapes by David. Have this written down that on one of the tapes he described,

drugs. As a combination of sodium pentothal and fino barber tall- that's it is one of those other sodium pentothal was truth, sir, it is okay, so must have a mixture so putting the two together but like we said he thought it would cause amnesia and one of them fascinating parts about that is there was a woman unnamed bidding give her name, but she was uncertain Of whether or not she was abused to start with bad dreams right yeah, she was having these really weird nightmares and it wasn't till the f b I came, knocking on her door ends.

And telling her what they were there to talk about. Oh, do they see her and when the tapes? No? No, I think they were. I dont know what caused him to question her, but somehow they got her information, but once they start talking about this. She realizes hey. These are not nightmares. I actually went through this. And she is able to you know. After talking with the f b, I to actually give them a bunch of details yeah. So hopefully we didn't just give out some crazy recipe for a budding serial killer, but apparently I mean this is all over the internet. like were sand stuff that people can't look up, but apparently this did work, at least in for him this instance right, because she was not sure whether

She had really gone through something and act. I think she was leaning towards a fact that she had been there and we just having some bad dreams. But of course we know it wasn't no one a bad dream. She was kidnapped and tortured, like the other near she lived through so gives, I think, we're we're probably close to getting into the trial. But we ve got to talk a little bit more about cindy hindi cause, I think, she's a fact needing part of this whole case yeah. I know we'd just kind of touched on the fact that she participated and in some of the crimes and helped out David parker ray So cindy was from seattle, and what I have is that she moved to new mexico because she was wanted for forgery, theft and drug possession. So she was trying to avoid arrest by you know getting out of the seattle area,

It came to light later that cindy had told one of her friends that she had participated in these attacks, that ray come torture and and all that and what. said was that there were also for the six people that were killed. So she had the same friend. She told that too not only killed but dismembered and tossed into elephant. Butte lay ok now. I dont think its any big shock that when it came time getting close to the trial, she want to cut a deal. I'm sure so she was, she was willing to. Your role

were against ray and others for reduced sends. So she provided details of raise alleged murders right alleged because they they never actually convicted him, but you got a lot of people talking about ray, and she said it? It was probably fourteen it was. It was enough just to have the f b. I search his property. Yes right, yeah and the lake. I think they tried to do stuff at the lake as well. I mean they have like eighty to one hundred f b, I agents out in that area searching So she says fourteen, but I'm thinkin that's We only the ones that she knew about. You know how much activity did David parker re do before he even met her well. I don't know what dont nobody anyone his own. What did you do with other people assistant camp right bow,

counts. He started at a pretty young age yeah because he was fit nine years old when they caught him, and there were some accounts that he doing this, for maybe thirty to forty years now he could start as young as nineteen twenty years old. so she told police that ray had killed the business partner named billy bowers, whose murder up to that point had been completely unsolved. Nobody knew had any information on it too. Cindy was the one that was able to link re with that and what she had said, that rate dump the body and that this lake, but had come back up to the surface and Cindy said at this point that re learned that he had to open up the stomachs of his future victims.

so that when he dumped them in the lake they wouldn't they wouldn't come back up. They they'd stay submerged. Merger will blow up in flow right, that's pretty detailed information. It is really detailed information to make up here and yeah. I don't think she was making this up. I don't think so. Either I think she was trying to cut a deal. Don't get me wrong yeah, but I think she had some pertinent information and was able to give that to police, but but, like you said, they sent hundreds of agents out to his property, I think to the lake. Even they searched all. You know this area around his property. They never found one human remain yeah, and I think that to me is like a huge mystery in this case, it is

as you think they will find something right. Raynham surely sent divers into the lake and yeah. I don't. I don't know how dragged it or something. I don't know how big elephant butte lake is, I mean it could be, it could be those very deep lakes, ilo either area exactly but for him, the king Whatever the number is, whether its fourteen are forty or sixty to be able to do it in a way where Nobody has ever been found right, you're here, what he was doing it s? Okay, it that way. I believe those victims. That's for sure. Oh half way so I've got a little audio bite from a detective I wanna play He was a predator and he was a very good one. A very intelligent one, too, are convinced that there are remains

it's a matter of locating them. David was very familiar with that lake and he he worked for the as a mechanic for the state parks. He also had made comments in the past that we know about about the best way to dispose of a human body in in a body of water, such as elephant. Butte lake cover them with wire fish, wire, er, I'm sorry, chicken, wire or barbed wire weight them with cinderblocks or other heavy weights, and sync them to the bottom of that. In the deepest part of the lake, so there again he's talking about the lake. I wish he just said how deep the lake was right. I know somebody's going to look it up and say it's yeah. Somebody will let you know it's ex, but you can't research everything. I guess but, like we said, hindi is such a central figure in this case and she would go. to tell the police ever thing. She knew about raise daughter, jesse as well, and that whole episode that we talk to

and also another accomplice there. I don't think we Jeanne, yet by the name of Roy Nancy and both jesse and Roy were implicated. In the murder of a woman named Marie parker, and I think my think marie was was royce ex girlfriend or ex wife and it was a similar situation to the the gear it incident that we talked about It happened in a bar. jesse and roy, somehow got Marie out of the bar, yes, so for the listeners gig by roy, but his real name was Dennis yet dennis roy yeah yeah. But yours. What do you want the eye? So they get much like ally they get Marie in handcuffs and they

in the car and they get her back to the toy box right now. We keep saying this, but Marie was tortured. Three days, I dont know why this three days it pops up a lot. I dont know if David hurray. You got tired of of these victims after days. Maybe there maybe its words. Is he did everything he wanted to do and he's done maybe yeah. I only want to think about it too, sick But obviously there's something about three days, because that's it can't be a coincidence that it keeps coming up over and over so she's torture for three days and then re and jesse come to Roy Nancy. and they say there done with her so again, Jesse's pretty involved in this one

and they give roy a rope and they tell him- the strangle Marie anne. He ultimately admits that that's what he did So let me let me play a little clip on that. This is. It starts out with police questioning, david parker ray and then morphs into the anti labour reform she's a war disappeared or two years ago, it's just that it is up to your cpn nations like that she's one that is fair, don't worry everyone that I know of the incident as though you were part of that. Much, though, certainly not bad from what I understand. As you said many years of having torturing and killing women, how did you come up with the idea to kill marie

it was david, ray parker yeah and I ended up giving me a rope to strangle her. She wasn't dying fast enough, okay, but you said she wasn't dying fast enough where she scored winner I was told not to tell anybody anything or I was going to be killed and who told me about how David so David parker ray is basically telling that Is he doesn't know anything about it right? then re antsy admits to the murder and says that you know he was told to do it by So all this happens and jesse ray is arrested and charged with kidnapping on April twenty six nineteen. Ninety nine Ray antsy was arrested a little bit earlier and charged on suspicion of murder April tenth. Ninety ninety nine, I give you I think we have to start talking about the trials

How and re has a couple of trials in his first trial begins on march twenty eight two thousand something happens right after jury selection of this first trial, and it's that he re suffers a heart attack, and so the trial has to be postponed. Look, I know one thing that happens to you know between this time and I believe that the time that they start the new trial is one of the key witness is dies, Angelica, dies of drug overdose, so that really only leaves a believe cynthia v hill and kelly garret. The main surviving witnesses for the for the prosecution

the new trial starts on may twenty third, they they finally start. They have completed jury selection and, at this point, ray is charged with twelve counts of kidnapping sexual abuse. It and conspiracy, but the trial doesn't very, doesn't really last very long because in July. The judge declares a mistrial, because at this point, The jury cannot agree on a third This is where I guess for me giving gets very strange and I don't understand. What's going on, because What is said is that not all of the jurors were persuaded that the testifying victims. So to me that means Cynthia Kelly had

and held against their will. I don't know what the hell they thought did. They think that willingly went to the toy box in butter. Cholera, the act put the collar on themselves and said: hey. You know, please torture me for three days I dont get that donated, but course we weren't in the court room. We didn't hear all the evidence, but that stood out to me is a strange. But either way there's a retrial and this is in happens in november, but again yeah- there's a lot of crazy stuff happening with these trials right, because it's really just a couple of days into this new trial that the judge dies. So they have to postpone

the new trial, and so that's november. They don't start up again until April next year, but this time I think they get it right and they convict re on all twelve charges. Again I go back to that. First one. I don't understand it. I don't know what they thought. I mean we heard both victims, though we re had sound bites of both victims right. I dont know what their past sar. I don't know what to defence brought up in and to try to discredit them, which we know happens, a lot right, it's kind of sad, but the defence always has to try to discredit the victims, but can't imagine that they were able to do

so in a way that people thought the girls got what they deserved. Yeah it makes me I mean that's, I don't get what they asked for. It is the way couple of those jurors made it sound. Yeah I want to, I won't belabor the point, but it does strike me as very strange, but anyway, if you know another jury convicts him, but he's still got to go through a second trial, and that starts up in june now- in this one. He makes a plea bargain before the second trial right and reason that he does is for his daughter, jesse, because she's implicated, she's charged so he makes a plea bargain basically saying that help plead guilty, which why wouldn't he's already been convicted but he'll plead guilty in this trial,

in exchange for a lighter sentence for his daughter, jesse and re was convicted her white he pledged guilty. So ultimately he gets like two hundred and two for years in prison yeah. How much of that was from the first one and how much of that was from the second one, but you know he was convicted of a bunch of different offences. All revolving revolving around and and sexual torture of these young women. So again, when we talk about craziness right in these trials, the trouser over and its may, twenty eighth-

of two thousand and two david parker ray, is getting ready to be transferred to prison. So I assume up until this point he's been in some kind of either county jail or something like that yeah. That makes sense, but he's getting ready to go to big boy prison any suffers. Another heart attack any dies, so ever even makes it to prison, never gets to taste the medicine now now that he's dead it almost makes the case dead, nobody's found he can't vor ginia. Other information right right, he'll never be able to. No other victims were identified, and they were never able to put any of the other suspicious desk, that they thought maybe we're aid to him. They could never officially link those two david parker rag right. May it did

man, I don't wanna, say it doesn't matter as it does, because if there are other victims out there, you know their families maybe could get some closure. Air bye, bye, thinking and and being able to officially say that they something happened to them at the hands of of david parker ray. So I I shouldn't say that it doesn't matter at all because it does. Now something happens in november of two thousand. To that that I thought was really interesting, and this was that they act. The police actually open the toy box to the public. That's weird: they allow the public to tour david parker raise toy box in the thought was

is that it was believed that it may lead to more vit surviving victims coming forward, but that strange that is strange. That me, are you or Joe public could go. I dont know if there is a limit to who could it says the public realm about them, over, but but I dont know why thing came out of it. I dont does far to my knowledge. Nothing came out of that right, so we jump forward to october of two thousand and eleven And the fbi, I don't on some type of tipp they performed a search of a place called Mccrae canyon, which was near this elephant, be like

which, from everything I read, people think that's where he disposed of bodies and they're looking for potential victims. They don't find anything in february thousand twelve, the australian federal police contact the fbi about a potential victim, known only by the first name, Connie. And apparently commie had been mentioned in a letter from a man named mark that was postmarked from sidney, but it was found in David parker raise residents. after his arrest. I dont know whatever became of it, but it was interesting near so

No. He was corresponding with other people that had similar interests right. You know we ve. We ve heard about that before with the internet. In some of these different cry, Z, fetish forums, but I dont know if he was doing some correspondence through mail or what but as far as I know they were they were no, never able to get any more information on this woman that was named in the letter. So let's go. Let's wrap it up by talking about some of the other people in all of them and what happened to them. So we had worry antsy. He was convicted in the strangulation, murder of marie parker. and he received two fifteen year sentences to run consecutively. He didn't serve all that painted in which I thought was a little strange yahoo,

abroad in two thousand and ten and he only served eleven years. That seems pretty light yeah to me I mean I, I think there are people in prison on drug related charges that have done more time than that and here's a confessed killer, yeah that strangled a woman, but he stay out very long. No, no he's only out for a few months yeah. It was what three months yeah he got charged with a some type of violation of his probation, yeah and hit it, and so he is back in custody and now he has to serve the full sentence. I think it's a twenty twenty one, yeah, twenty twenty one, yeah so he'll be out and which is actually only four years away to think about it pretty soon. So when he listens to this, he can shoot you an email and give you any important details. We missed yeah. I really hope some of these people don't have podcasts in jail

so that's what happened roy So then we have Cin Cindy hindi yeah. She got a reduced sentence for her role, but it was thirty six years so thirty six years with a potential parole, I'm guessing yeah. Obviously what that tells me gives is that they had a shit, load of evidence on heard here, because she rolled on all these people still have still got thirty six years so she participated in a lot of the bad stuff. That happened, That's what that tells me. Do you want to talk about jesse yeah yeah, his daughter jesse? She got you know because he plead bargain right right, so he did the plea bargain oh, because that she got nine years later,

five to be served on probation bases, so she deafening got off on the light and compared to the rest of them. Yet daphne I mean and obviously she's out, yeah oh yeah yeah. She has to be out now here, she's, listen to to listen to reason in Europe than emailed correcting yes, her. I can live with an email zones. That's all it is the right give me so to wrap up this story. of David park array, a k, a toy box killer. I may obviously one of the sicker individuals that we ve covered sterling. May I don't think you know If you, you can try all you want, but he never be able to get into this guy's head, know and figure out what made him tick. I'm telling you, if you want to freak yourself out, go out there and read the

script! Try sleep after that! Yet now only can you read it yourself, but there are some people on you too, that have read the whole. Transcript yeah in either their normal voice or some freedom boys from creepy and that creepy out even more but the you know, and I will see what we're talking about is the transcript of the tape that David.

Parker re made and basically played for every victim, and it is what you heard times. One hundred yeah man I cut out just listened to it. Yeah plates lay on your couch, close your eyes, listen to it and tell me if it doesn't freak you out, yeah it it freaked me out and that's and that's why I kind of cut it down a little bit. I didn't want to. You know, play the full bore nasty nasty version. Yeah, we figure we'll leave that up to people if they disturbing anyone. If want to. They want to get that. So that's it for episode. Sixteen in the bag, yeah make sure you jump over and listen to our own solved, yeah, definitely yo unsolved, crank, crank up, we ve got episode. Six would become an out at the exact same time. Is this? so make sure you I, if you haven't given at all

soon give it a try subscribe it is on itunes. Like we said it's, it's pay, clearly the same format. We just pick unsolved cases and talk about the case. We talk about all the different sus bags. You know. Sometimes we go down to a bunch of different rabbit. Holes yeah can't help that, because there's a lot more rabbit holes and in these unsolved sure, yeah give it a try alright. So for, ferguson and gibbey stay say,

then keep your own time. Taking.