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the the hello everyone and welcome to episode three or five of the true crime. All the time podcast MIKE ferguson with me, as always, is my partner in true crime by gibson. Give me how are you Good. I myself I'm doing very well, I'm glad to hear that you are doing well. Also, we ve got some really good episodes on time. This weekend. Obviously, during this one,

we're finishing up part with part two on Crispin. Why worry we'll get into that in a minute, but on true crime all the time, and so we have an ep so now, right now, Gareth williams- and this is also a two partners of this- is part one read it over to beautiful great britain and we're going to dive into little background the garrison and we're gonna go heading dive into the actual murder. It's very mysterious and involves Some of those three letter acronym agencies, gas. So I think this is one People are really going to be fascinated by so make sure you check that out. Let's go ahead and give our page round shout out,

Emily Andrews jumped down to our highest level. Well, thank you. Emily Linda Sinclair, hey, linda raina, taliban. What's going on, rayna drow, luna page or real Kevin rose, hey! What's up rose Andrew Johnson, yours Angie, my hex and was going to say and do teresa schrock a teresa Sheila Torres. What's up, Sheila, Julie, mckenna, hey, usually Sarah zar to alumni was that a llama went wrong with it. Sarah brown, that's a tough one. Sarah had tina Chang eighteen Landon heisey was going on heisey kathy, a kathy don katyn reshaped at don sierra Coulson. Hey Sarah taming well gotta like tammy, hooker, Stacy kroger's. Well, thank you. Stacy sabrina stand bearing sabrina like the witch seeds getting close to halloween. Oh,

I see how you making that connection, although you did just call one of our patriarch members, of which it's a she's, a good which I didn't say that sabrina that was gimme, kathy rayburn trova, what's going on Kathy neuro tech? Well, what's up so new power jumped down to the love highest level that so much on you and karen doll did as well jump out. Iceland amazing think current. So we appreciate that new support and then, if we go back into the box. This week we selected Hannah pots there saying Thank you hannah doubts of love, the new the continued support. We had one really great hey pal donation, and that was from Deanna Johnson there's Deanna coming through thing at vienna. Thank you. I body. Are you re to get into this episode of true crime? All this may and I am ready so in part one the chris been well episodes we discussed is early live. We talked a lot about his rustling career and we really got into chaos

his personal life. marriages, although it seemed like Chris had everything in it. Did right. I had money had fame, he had a beautiful pham. Yeah was all gone his way it was, but at the same time there is no doubt he was struggling with intense grieve, which we talked about some of that right story. use an a very volatile relationship with his. Why so, in part, two will discuss the full investigation into the been why family tragedy and I'll make the same disclaimer that I made an episode one. This episode does discuss domestic abuse and suicide, so it was on june twenty six that the faye at county sheriff's office, farm that Crispin was murdered, his wife and son, and that he hang himself in the weight room of his home according to the sea bc.

sheriff tommy pope said in a news conference. We are now looking at this case and ruling it as a double homicide sousa. So I think gibbs at first glance win authorities walk in on a scene like that. I think that's a pretty natural determination to make yeah think it's that difficult. Now we may die then too, because there are some people. I even heard from some after episode, one that do not believe Chris been wa, killed anyone or took his own life. That is a rabbit or we concerned

go down, so please began putting together a full time line the weekend. The autopsy found that nancy and in were killed just hours apart. Nature was killed on Friday june twenty second, two thousand and seven. She was found wrapped in a town in the home office. Her wrists and ankles were tied, Nancy had blood under her head, which indicated that there must have been and you know some type of struggle. According to DA chris Bauer Nancy had a bruise on the small of her back as if someone put their knee on her and she strangled with a court- a bible, was found near her body or official cause that was as fixation, annual been war was killed in his bedroom. On the morning of june twenty third, he was found in his bed with a bow I near his his body, eight chris bower. Today we see that

the your might have been put in a chokehold. His cause of death was also ruled as asphyxiation Daniel was found with needle marks in his are now, please nearly died. He was being injected with human growth hormone because of his small saw such a very personal, way to kill somebody. Asphyxiation usually is best Surely you know this dossier is right: and Daniel was killed through the use of h how cold man you talk about up close personal mass so the following is a more detailed time The remainder of the weakened, as we talked about part one on July, twenty third to thousands up crispin, while was scheduled to appear at w w E smack down in tax

at three thirty pm christmas friend, Szabo Guerrero, received voice message from Chris saying he missed his flight because he overslept and he would be late to the event. So guerrero, pulled him. Chris confirmed what he said in his voice message according to Guerrero. He sounded tired and wrong. also said that Chris told him he loved him on the phone which he told a number of different papers was out of context. He can always tell right when a friend of a friend says something like that to you. They never say to you before there's definitely something awry while you and I have been friends for a long time or you know if you called me on your way home and said you know what man I just want to tell you. I love you yeah. I would think it's a little odd,

just because it's not something that you and I say to each other a lot while I used to say to you all the time, but you will never say it back It led to that restraining order and then things get really messy, but I'm I'm with you you know if you ve got a good friend right, can what phrases they use in really, more importantly, what Raises do they not you were there you go because that's what really sticks at her at three forty, two guerrero called crew. Again because, as he said, he was concerned about his behaviour. Chris didn't answer so guerrero left a message saying just call me back just two minutes later Chris called Guerrero back and said he didn't answer, because he was speaking with delta, trying to change his flight,

he said he had a stressful day, because Nancy and Daniel were sick with food poisoning. So these two guys spoke about their travel plans for the w w e tour of taxes. Shovel asked if he was okay and Chris told him that he was really tired. But again Chris sounded very, very grog, so after his wife and son were killed. he had a car with his friend and said that they were both sick? What would you gonna say? you're either going to tell a lie, or are you just going to try not say anything at all? Obviously you can't tell the truth. If that's what really happened at four thirty, another co worker, who often travel with Chris, called him from outside the Houston airport. Chris answer the phone and told this p listen that Nancy was vomiting. Blood in Daniel was also bargaining. believe they had food poisoning. Chris said he changes

Why would be introduced? In six? Thirty pm he told the coworker to drive to the w w e of So my first thought is wire: saying anything at all and any one thing that I can really come up with. Is that you're trying to set the stage for obviously what is going to you know, come late right maybe he's not sure what he's gonna do at this point in time, so, like maybe, was contemplating maybe turning. then maybe there were a lot of different things that was, you know running through his mind. At five, thirty five chris called w w e tower relations and told them. The Daniel was vomiting in here see we're at the hospital with him. He said, he'd be taking a later flight, but would still make it to the events in burma. Taxes

at six ten talent, relations, rap called crews and wrap asked him what time he'd be in beaumont Chris said he was leaving atlanta, lana, nine, twenty eastern and we'll get to houston at nine twenty four p m central the rub told him. It would be too late to make it to the event chris appalled guys told this person he had a family emergency. The rub told him that he should still flighty houston and get ready for the vengeance event. The next so not only are you you telling people things about your work, and saw that can't possibly be true, but it is almost as if you're trying to move forward and go to these events and make these events right. So here are trying to stay business as usual. Yeah! That's what it sounds like at six. Thirteen pm the rap called chris to reconfirm his travel plans. Chris didn't answer, so this wrapped

damn to take his flight and rest before the vengeance of then the next day. There is a series of phone calls here right over become less than a three hour span, then on Sunday june. Twenty four. Several messages were sent from both Chris, an Nancy's cell phones to coworkers Debbie Debbie did richly post attacks messages, but then later remove them from their website, but the tax were retrieved by the new york daily news, so Chris texted to co workers Then he spoke with on june twenty third at three. Fifty three, I am. He said, the text message c s, my physical address, ass is one thirty green meadow lane. They it bill georgia, three two one far almost immediately: he sent another tax message to these two coworkers

saying the dogs or in the enclosed poor area garage shy doors, open Nancy. He's cellphone tax texted the same to people about a minute later, three, fifty four m c s, my physical address is one thirty green meadow land fade vill, georgia, thrilled to one side, and then a minute later, Nancy's phone texted, the same two people, the exact same text message at three: fifty eight nancy cellphone tax texted, the co worker, who often travel with Chris the same message? My address is one thirty green meadow lane they they'll georgia, three two one by so bizarre, Well, essentially, the same text message at least four times in the span of five some of them going to the same end,

jewels multiple times in some going to different people. Let's not forget three, fifty something in the morning. I think you have to factor that in his well right, whose texting three, fifty eight in the morning. Why are you just send me your address ray and where's the context? What does it mean to be like? Okay, that's nice, you know what else would you say right, Debbie Debbie attempted to contact chris by a phone by attacks. They also called local heart metals and land is obviously they were worried about him by this point in time on june, twenty four, earth crispin. Why hanged himself in his basement way room by eleven p m on the twenty? Fourth, no one had heard from, and what the authorities came to believe was that

since all of these tax to help someone find the bodies before too much time had passed in so then does make some sense. If you ve already killed your answer and you're planning on ending your life, whose planning I'm coming over and can get in the house and will find you re. Could it be three days could be a we could be two weeks and does it make sense that somebody would not want it to be an extended period of time, yeah, of course, on june, twenty fifth at twelve thirty pm w w E learned about the text, messages that were sent out today before at twelve forty five p m. They contacted the fair, though county, sheriff's office, and asked for a welfare at four p m. They received the call from the sheriff's office in

I them that they had entered the then while residents and found three bodies, a man, woman and According to an article from wrestling ink posted on you third two thousand seven chris, his neighbor holly, make fake was actually the one who found the bodies can have talked about this briefly in episode, one the been was had these dogs that were preventing the police from entering the house, but the dogs were familiar with her, so she was able to you'll get them under control and they would allow her to enter the home, but she ran out screaming because found Nancy. Indeed, big, fags representative said she had to leave her home due to the massive media attention I can only imagine how much attention was there well crispin. Why was

star in the world of rest rapture. This was a big story to unite talk all the time Ok, what would it be like to find a dead body in this case a two dead bodies? It might hunt your dreams rate for very long. I'm sure cause you a lot of mental anguish and problems, but here's other side of this that we don't always see because this, such a high profile case because Crispin, while with such a high profile person, everybody's going to descend on this house this neighborhood they're going to hound this woman. They want to talk to you. always have that in every case, in every city, in america or in the world, for that matter vague, also reported seen chris on Saturday. The twenty third and said that he told her

Nancy endanger were sick with food poisoning. So obviously, this was something that he had come up with a story. He was this We had come up with. I dont know how well thought out it was. I don't know where his head was add. I still don't know what he was plain. hang on doing with that information or what that was going to ultimately set up investigators started looking into how stir would use, might have contributed to the tragedy. I think it's pretty well now. Right. Steroid abuse is linked to roy rage or outbursts of anger can be pretty violent. The sheriff came, I can confirm that anabolic steroids and legal prescriptions were found in the home. They did not know at the time if has been wall was using the stir. Fox news reported that lieutenant tommy pope for

the sheriffs department said there was a lot of prescription medication that he had received from doctors. What we believe to be at this time legal prescription and that word sterile aids can often be very mislead. May you can go to the doktor and the doktor, give you a steroids shot right in the office. Oh here sometimes because as steroids are very beneficial. Get him a few times a year whether you need him or not exactly you just walk and a book medium need. Em I can't tell you why need em. I just need, is needed, but see when a lot of people think air raids, especially with this case or with you, know, sports, you thinking the end

balikh stare words, the performance enhancing type of steroids. On june, twenty six w w Debbie released to stable, saying that Crispin was tested negative for steroids on April ten, two thousand set, and they added that the physical findings announced by the authorities- indicate deliberation, not rape. So, in my mind, there's a couple of things here. First of all- and we talked about it briefly in episode- one- they have to immediately distance themselves from Chris Benoit. Oh for sure, and they they did that right ad to walk some things back. They had to take something off their website, but here you have them putting out a statement. I'm only trying to distance themselves from crass but also distance them selves from the notion that

wrestlers or using performance enhancing stay right because that's a big deal. It is a huge too according to a b c crispin while was tested in April as part of w w ease two thousand six town wellness program that included an aggressive substance, abuse and drug testing policy. Now storied use was linked to several pro ressler das. Before Chris, his close friend eddie guerrero died of heart failure november two thousand five and his death was linked to long term steroids use. If we some very bad side effects of steroids. Yeah me Let's go way beyond the weather term, worried rage or thou bursts of anger. I think it's been scientifically proven and it can cause some really bad things within your body

and this is aside from you know- can the stereotypical stop the people joke about right, make your grape, smaller and and all that stuff? I'm I'm talking about like real radical issue. for sure, although nobody wants their grapes really to be smaller. No, never, but you don't want them huge, How do you word on? I don't know where you're coming from what pleasure common rome imagine having one extra day every week more time to cook healthy meals, work on that novel or just been some good, true crime, documentaries. What would you do with your extra day? Every we will now it's all possible with click up

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cover new ways to laugh, be inspired or be entertained. New members can try it free for thirty days, visit, audible, don com, slash t cat or text t cat, two, five hundred five hundred, that's audible, dot com, slash t cat or textile cat, two five hundred five hundred to try audible, free for thirty days, audible, dot com, slash ticket on june, twenty seven, two thousand seven crispin was personal physician, doktor phil aston told the associated press that he last saw Chris Benoit on june twenty second, two thousand and seven, so that wasn't very long before all of this kind of took place just days. He said he prescribed chris testosterone because he had low testosterone levels according to doctor, asked and chris did not seem distressed, testosterone. become common. Nowadays, a lot of men. Take that no,

How'd you get older, your testosterone levels drop church, just a fact. Gotta supplement it somehow, but I think, is important. Here is him saying he didn't seem districts and you can make of that which will? Maybe he wasn't distressed. He know Twenty sack right? Maybe that happened the next day on the twenty third that same day fade though county officials announced they were investigating a link between Crispin war and company called medics, lie medics, live sword, steroids online, and was under investigation for legal stored sales in june, two thousand seven visual told cnn back Chris, his name. On recedes indicating he had purchased anabolic steroids, an human growth hormones from signature pharmacy in orlando Florida and that come,

was under investigation for illegally selling, still on the twenty seventh w w e attorney jerry mc debit made the statement that, A new berlin wall had something called fragile acts syndrome and that his condition was taking a difficult toll on. Prison, Nancy and I'll be with the gives. This is something that I had never heard of before fragile acts syndrome, but when you It all becomes up as a genetic condition inherited from parents which results in various developmental problems like intellectual disabilities. An com two impairment, so doesn't sound good sounds like a good, Have a lot of negative side of fairy no cause a lot of negative issues, but is very rare. One thing I saw us, There were fewer than two hundred thousand cases per year in the u s there, no no cure, but there are treatments to help manage the condition.

during the police investigation, while the public was still trying to understand exactly what happened. A wikipedia edit caused further confusion on june twenty two thousand seven wikimedia foundation spokeswoman sandra ordinance, confirmed abc Betty Wikipedia user edited the crispin. Why age in road? Dad Nancy been want died before the police found. The bought crispin was biography, was a little twelve one, a m on Monday june, twenty fifth, but the police didn. Third, the been walk home until two thirty p m, the po said Crispin. Why? was replaced by johnny nightmare for the extreme champion, ship wrestling championship match it. Vengeance,

as been wall was not their due to personal issues stemming from the death of his wife Nancy. So that's pretty interesting that somebody edited this wikipedia. Your page and said that nancy was dead before police even guy, say that how you now it's also one of the problems with wikipedia bacon, pretty much go in there and added and do whatever they want. But You could see why a lot of people would think does very strange right according to wiki so within an hour of the post dad it was changed and a common added need a reliable source. You see that quite a bit, if you ever get on wikipedia It also said saying that his wife died is a pretty big statement. You need to back it up with something I agree,

another hour passed and then another edit was made adding, according to several pro wrestling websites to the end of the state, then it was changed. Twenty minutes later with another comment, saying per several pro wrestling website is still not reliable information wikimedia foundation, learned about the posting and Employee left a message to fayetteville police around the lemon asia on june twenty six. They gave them the ip address of the user. They also locked the crispin while page to prevent further at ordinary, confirm that they gave this information to the police and also that this individuals, ip address, had been flagged. In the past four band eliza other wikipedia pages specifically wrestling relate early on the twenty ninth, the user confessed then a posting on wiki news.

fashion match the ip address that edited crispin was we're here. age, the user said they were deeply sorry and the post was a terrible coincidence. But the user did not identify themself in this apology post, they did say they were from Stamford connecticut, where w w E was founded, but they did not claim to be connected to w w ii in any way, but obviously gibbs the police are going to want to check into that for sure you're going to become concerned. When someone, it seems, knows about a death or deaths before anyone else, so they attempted to track the ip address down. They traced. The posting to this ip address in connecticut.

Local police, when they seized the computer from the user, they declined to name the person at the time, but they did say that if this person had knowledge of the murders before the police found the bodies they could, these criminal charges. Can you not really going out on a limb there below I get what they're saying on june twenty eight, the police confirm the federal drug agents in sheriffs officials conducted a rate of the office of doktor. Phil, asked him to search for medical and prescribe records on July. Second, though, Aston was charge with improperly dispensing pain, killers and other drugs. He was charged with then counts. The complaint stated that he wrote prescriptions for profit. Currently one million doses of controlled substances over a two year period. While that is a big big now, the d, a called these prescriptions, excessive for a soul, practised

dinner in a rural area, asked in pleaded not guilty. That would be excessive. It seems like if you were had a big huge practice in downtown los angeles yeah, but if out in the middle of in a rural georgia, please you they go get. Some risley is going on. Here is number got passed around a few times: last and was put on house arrest under a one hundred and twenty five thousand dollar bond cnn reported that Crispin was name was now mention in the indictment, but according to the? U s, attorney's office through proscription records for MR, been won contained at a pharmacy and fed bill. Georgia doctor aston was identified, as prescribing on average a ten months supply of anabolic steroids to Mr Bin. Why every three to four weeks from may force too

thousand and six through may nine, two thousand so, while so a ten months supply every three or four weeks, basically every month, yeah, that's a lot of right. Yes, so what do you make of that? Either he's taking much more than what the prescription calls for right, or their storage are born. Somebody out there, I think those two things that you know you can make from that on July. Third, faye at county prosecutors Bower stated in a news release that they review some of them. you been was medical records and they don't mention any pre existing mental or physical impairment This goes back to this whole fragile acts syndrome right that an attorney came out and claim that he had,

they didn't find in any of his prior medical records, and we mentioned it right as this w w e attorney jerry mc death who had made the statements about this fragile x syndrome. He also said that chris and Nancy argued over whether he should stay home more to take care of Daniel prosecutor. Scott bower said that investigators found needle marks on Daniels. Are he was tall Daniels pay and thought he was undersized and they were giving him growth hormone. Occasionally kids are undersized man at that age, I got a very powerful thing to give a seven year old. It does you know, I do think on rare occasions there do that, but man well, ok, they do that, but under maybe the supervision of a doctor,

but is that what we have here, because I it's not sounding to me like it is- it sounds to me as though Chris could get his hands on that, and they were just thinkin. Ok right, we'll give him some and see what happens now. I don't know that to be the truth, but w be spokesmen. Gary data set on July. Third, dad mig, David Solly, canadian news or for employees and Daniel had fragile acts syndrome, and he felt confident that this was accurate. After speaking, with some employees who knew Crispin. Why jerry Davis? Also They had no information to contradict scott ballard state. Some, though these are some pretty big statements to come out of me, When you haven't verified the fact right in this turning this isn't just lay person. You would think there'd be a little more digging to make sure that this statement that you're putting out is cool,

on July. Seventy the press conference was held, announcing the toxicology results from Chris Nancy. ann Daniels, autopsies, Nancy, tested positive for Xanax, hydrocodone and hydromorphone, but investigators couldn't tat the exact levels at a time of death due to de composition, nay, his blood alcohol level was point one eight four, but they couldn't tell. Is she actually ingested any alcohol because As they said, this high blood alcohol content level could have been caused by the composition and makes it more difficult to really know what's goin on also said the drugs founding Nancy's body were at a quote therapeutic level, but could it

and lower than they were when she died again due to de composition, so yeah guess it does make it tough from that respect, what do I want to talk about some of these drugs xanax you're, a lot of people that take Xanax and all some andorra, similar drug sure, hydro codeine, is prescribed lot for pain, indifferent things, right, hydro, more phone, I'm not exactly sure what that is mean either sounds powerful. Maybe I want some because to me it sounds like morphine. Yes in, and I've talked about morphine, quite a bit as it relates to my kidney stones. I know how powerful that is. I mean how much you enjoyed it and how much I enjoyed it, but I think you know at the heart of it is the question: did she take these drugs herself prescribed not prescribed whatever, or were these drugs

used to sedate her doktor chris bury of the gb. I said there was no evidence. Nancy was sedated, but there was evidence that daniel what fox news reported that Daniel had elevated levels of xanax in his body- doctors, He said it is our opinion that day, he's been. Why was the day It buys an axe at the time that he was murdered, so that means he was sedated prior to the time that he die. I just said a lot of people take Xanax or a drug similar to it. I know being prescribed two teenagers. I don't know how many seven year olds are taking them on a regular basis really more than we rely, probably because I dont know. I only know my kids weren't, taking anything like that when they were that age, but I that would have been an easy thing to figure out a he's either got a prescription for that matter or not. I am, I thought ass. He probably did from it.

The medical examiner was unable to task levels of human growth hormone in Daniels body because of a lack of your fox news report that crispin. Why had xanax and hydro code own add therapeutic levels in his body but tested negative for blood alcohol? testosterone was founded, elevated levels in his body which most likely men he was taking it before he died. Doktor Chris Perry said this level of testosterone indicates that he had been seeing testosterone, at least within some reasonably short period of time prior to the tiny dot. Although test asked room was found in Crispin was urine. There is no end of any other of the illegal types of steroids or the

whole laundry list of anabolic steroids that are out there to be used. The presence of the testosterone alone even could be an indicator that he was being treated for testicular insufficiency. Oh there's a big word, and does that mean well grapes- and I don't I don't know if they're insufficient- were they made insufficient because of steroid use, absolutely I could have could have could have yeah. We don't know the Toxicology report revealed that, despite passing the w w e wellness checks, Crispin while was taking testosterone, doctors very also said There is no reliable scientific data that conclusively as that elevated levels of administered testosterone led to it, ass of rage or be rural disorders? All the testing- that's benda regarding that has been king fleetly and conclude.

So I think we gonna break this down. If we do so, we ve got testosterone for sure, but you have doktor saying that the toxicology report doesn't show evidence of these illegal types of sterile these anabolic steroids than you know commonly. Can. Associate with this roid rage syndrome? when all this came out. It can lead to the question if Crispin, why didn't? kill his family because of roid rage. Why did he do it? What was the driving force? Because- let's not forget at this point- they're working theory- is that Chris Benoit killed Nancy and Daniel, and then he hang himself christopher, no wind

neuro scientists and former per wrestler, who worked with Chris speculated that repeated concussion could have caused his actions according to the new york times, know whence he said. He was one of the only guy who would take a chair shot to the back of the head, which is stupid. The winds key himself had to retire from wrestling because I concussions those kind of goes back to our discussion in episode. One about you know how fake is it. We know it's scripted, but we also know that these guys take. a tremendous amount of abuse nature due to their bob yeah in the name of entertainment yeah. So if you're getting head- and I mean really hit with a chair in the back of the head. This guy is calling it stupid, because I think it's pretty well proven that, following backward are hitting the back of your head

goes a long way towards kind of causing allow these concussions. I think a lot of you will get em now way according to Chris Jericho, on the dark side of the ring, He said it was a badge of honor to take a chair. Shy. to the head in the ninety ninety. But if you had a concussion in rustling, you just shook it shake it off, go in there and do it all of us did to something that you hear about it in a lot of different sports a ball was the same way they didn't know then everything they know today about concussions really was no concussion protocol. No, it was man up and get back. Their, regardless of what your experience I think, a lot of football players, any sport now that that was kind of them in how do I have the manner? If I can't do it, I'm ready

my team down, I'm gonna be seen as we and you know it. A decision made that was very detrimental to many people, but also year that other driving factor that, if I don't do it someone's gonna come in that field and maybe they might play better than me mere there better than me, and then I lose my spot. That is a good point as well, obviously, today especially in the inner they have this protocol, that kind of takes it out of the players have which it really is. The way that it should be a player is always going to want to go back in it. They think they physically can do it in a long time, even if they don't I think they're, just gonna they're going to want to do it. Etsy has holiday gifts for everyone. You love your family. Your chosen from the group chat you're going to tax to discuss this podcast episode the second year

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he spoke with Chris and the locker chris asked him about his book on concussions. He asked many concussions know whence he had before. He was forced to retire the wind. Ye, ask him how many he had increase answered. I've had more than I can count, and I'm not so sure gibbs that you wouldn't. I have heard that from many many athletes, pray to all the what's goin on to that right. Yeah, I'm sure you have. There is definitely many of them out there that have more we'll concussions debt were unknown, because I think the big thing was a lie. Athletes didn't tell people they were suffering those types of symptoms that a doctor then call they can caution because they did want to have some. I tell them couldn't play or whatever it was. They just wouldn't talk about, or if he did tell your coach or somebody, they just thought. You'd get back out that field that shirt Chris

the wind key contacted Michael benwick on june. Twenty, about studying chris, his brain, he suggested having MRS brain tested for see tee according to the winds key chris, his brain in early july within a month, they knew Chris tested positive for see tee any no chris, his family was desperate to understand. You know why this happen, so they turned over part of christmas. Owing to doktor julian bales of these sports legacy institute bay as is the head of neurosurgery anti. virginia university school of medicine and the former team position of the pittsburgh steelers. So these really familiar with this stuff is also the founder of the brain injury research institute. He and his colleagues doctor bennet omalu studied chris's brain sample,

durham, molly, who had studied athletes brains before Chris, then why one of them was football player? My Webster Omalu, studied MIKE Webster's brain and discovered the disease. Chronic traumatic encephalopathy which is caused by repeated head trauma? On September fifth, two thousand and seven experts with the sports legacy institute held a press conference to discuss their test results and explain that chris, and was suffered from see tee. His brain showed a build up of town protein deposits age trigger the release of phosphorus, which essentially kills brain cells. That can be done no, but, according to european, the researcher said there was no evidence that stare worried use causes.

These protein deposits doktor bail, said, are massive doses of steroids good now, but there is no evidence presently that steroids cause brain cells to die, so they know that he had city, they know oh, that they had this built up of this protein, which killed brain so what they don't know apparently of core. According to this doctor, is whether its cause by this prolonged stare, reduce or not, testing found that Chris head, such severe brain damage that it was said. His brain resembled an eighty your old alzheimer's, patient wow, but sir at saint, something right there, it, say yeah, it is saying a locked in you and I have both dealt with family members.

Who have suffered from this type of disease and we know how debilitating it is. How tophet is on now, but also on the the other family members of the very tough compared christmas rain to weigh healthy brain Chris. His brain advanced dimension in the form of brown, clumps tangles. which basically are brain cells. They died from headstrong. It was- that Crispin. Why had brain damage in every section of his brain included the areas that control emotions- or am I emotional. Behavior must really scary. When you think about that why eighty gets it's giving you the magnitude of the type a brain damage that this guy hat and it was

said, this brain damage was caused by repeated concussions and head trauma from rustling. We mentioned it right. He had said to people that he had more concussions then he could even count. He also had similar. Brain damage to nfl players with severe concussions who later became depressed and hurt themselves or other and I kind of alluded to this in episode one. This is what we are starting to see more and more yeah, and you get it wanted on, because these are big time athletes, their famous so in one of these big time, athletes does something to some one else or to themselves it gets more attention than it would be if the person was not fame. The person that comes to my mind, right off the bat is,

you say I'll, an unbelievable for ballplayer you're. One of the ass line backers to ever played the game. He hurt himself It was later found that he had this see tee and he had this type of severe brain damage from repeated concussion. So we ve been talking about this condition. Chronic dramatic encephalopathy see tee it still being researched, by doctors today, back in the nineteen twenties, physicians began noticing that professional boxers. Had this thing that back then they called punch drunk syndrome, but the symptoms were very similar to what today is called chronic traumatic encephalopathy. Talking about some potential head damage, boxing yeah

giving hit on the head quite a bit yea thing about someone like mohammed Ali and the things that he endured later in his life. I think most people attributed a lot of that too you, the number of punches that he took, he was kind of almost famous for letting people hit home right to tire them out there and then all of a sudden he would have this burst of energy, and he would know they'd be tired. He'd come back and finish him all. You said that rattled esther store roddy rocky about yeah the only difference is one was real and one was a movie. Molly was a movie abc reported that, male said that he couldn't be sir, that brain damage caused the tragedy. But he said most likely was a leading cause. We think

these changes are not due to stare words that has never really been study it's never been in the medical literature or any research that show steroids do this to the brain these chow, changes in the brain. Found in the nineteen twenty before stare rage were even invent, so again. This is kind of at the crux of this. What caused it to happen? Question yeah, the c t is there. That part is factual. It's a a scientific, can't, deny it thing, but what caused it and what they're saying is we can prove that their reduce had anything to do with causing this tragedy, but repeat with concussions and all that can cause this c t e, which can cause changes in the brain right in october, two thousand and seven court papers filed in the case against Dr Aston, showed that prosecutor said that he,

scribe crispin, why more than the normal amount of testosterone needed for his hormone disorder over a year long period still wrote him seven proscription. If the toll out of medication was broken down by each month. It acceded the guidelines by fifty percent of its approval there's a reason why they set those guidelines in favour. Two thousand, nay, they county investigators release detail. the brown their police report. Debbie ass, be tv reported that they did not believe in. One else was in the home besides, Chris needs, in Daniel, but they still didn't have an exact motive. The report said, after careful examination of all evidence, collected by investigators, their fate bill, county sheriff's office, concludes that between Friday june, twenty second, two thousand seven in sun june, twenty fourth, two thousand seven crispin what

took the lives of his wife, Nancy and theirs, Daniel before ending his own life. We already knew this right. This was kind of the prevailing theory pretty much from the get go now they're coming. Saying hey. This is what the official police report reads right, but they don't have the moat. What's the moat according to progress linda net christen, Nancy's marriage, was falling apart in the weeks leading to the murder suicide chris was worried that needs he was going to leave. nancy was angry with chris for steroids use on may knife to thousands of she texted Chris. I will not accept the stair roy induced roller coaster. Ride of emotional abuse, during the problem or running away is

going to help you face it, you need professional help in only if your fully honest about all of it. In a second text, she wrote yet the star, I'm probably not the only one who can see- and we both know The wellness programme is a job where she's being right to the point on so in this, tat. She mentions emotional abuse right and, if so, why? and we detailed out some physical abuse, both very bad. They both can be extremely exe, namely harmful damaging nasty, but also coming right out and saying you do said: stewards are causing you to act as one get off of. Nancy told a neighbor, she was afraid to go home after Chris slammed her against a wall. She was angry,

Chris was using steroids in one time through them out so she's worried about these drugs he's taking she's worried about. You know how its affecting his behave, you're a number one, because she's experience the facts right first hand, emotionally physical, b, but also she told people that she felt like he was becoming distant from her and his children. Many definitely had an addiction to these royds, the volume he was taking or divine. He was being prescribed and obviously it seemed as if he was taking them lead you to believe that there was some addiction yeah and I think it can addiction take many forms, but can you physically get addicted to two substances are absolutely people. Do it all the time I've made no secret that I'm addicted to caffeine yeah. If I don't have my six cups of coffee in the morning,

I am not a nice person to be around, but if your wife asked you to get off the feeling or you're gonna lose his family. You know it is it here and say: well when you just get off of it? It's easy is that right the machine down throughout all that coffee stuff over there earn, get back on track. But it's an addiction break is not that simple. It's not it's not so cut and dried not for people who are strong, where the direction- I am not me, light of addiction by saying I'm addicted to coffee, but I am addicted to call the coffee and see my shoes It really wasn't too keen on the workplace wellness program, but as if it was that's not how you're going to do it, you just need to get off it, because that probably it's not going work. Now she called the joke. Obviously he was getting around it. As I'm sure

most of the other. Wrestlers, probably words as well. Of course here is like the olympics testing that we found out much about over the years, people were getting away with all kinds of stuff or the tour de france testing or you name it. Testing is no different than drug testing here. Video yeah yeah it's a very strict programme, but somehow you keep finding a way around it. On january, twenty ninth two thousand and nine dr phil, asked and pleaded guilty to. Seventy five counts against him. Seventy five counts as a huge amount of counts to get somebody. It just tells you how often I was doing this illegal activity. Yeah and my thought, is they pile them up right, they're, going to they're going to put as many counts against you as they can, because Can you get out of one or two counts? Maybe you're not getting out of seventy five cow? It's coming

really really topic. Gonna get on some sums, gonna stick. He admits to illegally prescribing drugs. His plea referenced nineteen patients that he saw scribes, hundreds of illegal prescriptions to doktor, asked him proscribed. Chris. Then why anabolic steroids, but medical examiner couldn't say for certain if the steroids led to the murders. Again, we keep coming back to this question asked in defence turning said, that is, patients from the indict were a small subset and there were many people around and the area where he lived in practice that were grateful to him for their care in may two thousand not fill aston was sentenced to ten years in prison, so Ten years is no joe for scribbling. And on a piece of paper.

Obviously, what he was doing was wrong. He should have been doing it in. I get it I'm sure he was a good doctor too many, but that's a tough argument to make Please look past all of this stuff. I did and just take into account the fact that, while I was really good with these patients In january, two thousand twenty christmas son David, been walk, spoke about his father's death with Chris Van v. In an interview saying it wasn't him man, it definitely wasn't. He would never do that. I know he would I think something terribly went wrong. The doktor said he had see tee. That's what at the beginning gave me some closure

it just made my life a little easier. I didn't have to think about it. He had see tee. I don't think it was him. So this is an interesting statement because at first when I read this, I thought he was saying my dad didn't do right. It was somebody else but when you look at the context, it really seems more as though he sang my dad wasn't himself. Yeah because of the city genocide. Is that going to think back about we're dead, Was and who he was during this time, knowing that and that just wasn't my dad that somebody different even said it, you know that gave him some closure and made his life easier. I think I would have to kind of lean on that too. If I was in his position here this man that you ve known your whole life. He ray you. He was this father figure

at one point, or maybe during the whole, I am you knew him as this guy. and you loved this guy and then all of a sudden. This horrific tragedy occurs in now you ve gotta, separated out in your mama. You ve gotta, you ve got to compartmentalize in using the city. I think helped. Him is what he sir David was the teenager. When his father died. He was living in Edmonton, canada, with his mom obviously was in disbelief when he received the news so much so that apparently he punched a police officer David said I didn't believe it four days bro, the day really hit me was his funeral. That was a hard day that was a super hard at the last I mean spoke to his dad- was on fathers day, two thousand and seven so fathers day.

in june I what a couple of weeks there less than a couple of weeks before this tragedy happen said we were just laughing in getting ready to make plans for the summer to say. I love you one last time to him. It feels good to get it off my chest. It feels good. I'm never spoken about it so long time. The never publicly speak about. This tragedy, and I think it would be cathartic in some sense to kind of get some things off your chest and he's kind of He now christianity go said on the dark side of the ring. I think his fate with seal the day that eddie died. I see some christian whether he knew it or not, whatever was he was going through. I think he just continued to shrink his whole world until all that was left with just one was in his head that caused him to snap Sandra too

baloney also said, is not just one that I think that is a factor of alcohol and drugs and yes, possibly see tee in stress and grief and all of those things rolled again and put him on a path that weaken that he couldn't get off so we spent quite a bit of time. In episode was talking about the death. Eddie guerrero and it seemingly having this just me. Possibly negative effect on Crispin? Why it's almost as if that's what caused this spiral? According to some, so you huh, have Nancy sister saying I don't think it's just one thing: the you know you have to look all these things in kind of put him to gather, and even Chris Jericho really going back to the day.

The daddy died, is kind of the crock serve whatever the tipping point rate for lack of a better time, But over ten years later, there stole atomic questions, there remain in the berlin wall. Family tragedy. This case has been reference a warning to other athletes, about the importance of safety and dangers of repeated head injuries. Obviously it is a good warning because, according to many, this see tee, he could have or most likely played a major role in you know the actions that he took What you don't have is a lot of these people who are involved, saying why I don't think he did, but there are people- and I think it's something that we have to knowledge. There are people who believe that there's been. Why didn't murder his family in that he didn't take his own live now

I'm going to go into detail with all the different theories, but are we the would involve at least one or multiple people setting the stuff age or setting. It ah picture to look as though he did right one of the things as we wrapped up this case- that I found very interesting was new, really that the talk about the connection we steroids and see tee, and it seems as though that connection just has not been made, or at least connection that steroids and what we have always termed raid rage right is what caused ham possibly to do, What did the authorities are leaning more towards the city, and I think to be a combination, light sandra talked about, I think it absolutely. Could you know if he was drinking

if he was doing some drugs if he was not able to really battle through this brief, that he had over eddie guerreros there and then the sea tee. end, the stairway use on top of cod, have all kinds of snow bald in to what ultimately happened. I think that's a possibility, your criticism over the edge, but also We talk about this, see t eating, a brain cells or eating way, parts of the brain that kind of regulate emotions and- and things like that were at very, very troubling, I think, could lead some people to do certain things that had they not had this e t they,

Never did you. I did talk about junior, say out a little been yo, teammates love this guy and obviously fans did too. He was a great football player, but on top of that he was always seen as kind of this bubbly larger than life. Personality sure was in all of a sudden, something seemed as though it changed in its thought. Dad this see tee had had something to do with it. Can I go back to the conversation you and I had an episode, one about a lot of parents. May in the decision that now we just don't want our kids to play football, and I get that you know. Everything in life is is is a balance of risk in reward, there's a lot of rewarding things. They come from playing team sport, football baseball, basketball, whatever it is soccer, are their risks involved in in some of that, yeah

are there more risks in football than there are in basketball, sure we're boxing very risky proposition it is a may risky. Yeah yeah contact sport but I also hate the thought of kids, not playing some time of organised sport, you and I grew up in all of that and mean there's just so much to be learned. There is by being on on a team and and having to rely on others and also- Have them rely on you doing your job and learning how to communicate and work together, and just just all that's little teamwork, I boil it down gibbs it's hard for me, not to think then it went down the way that please said it did when you can boil down the text messages and some of those things that we talked about in this episode

when I do struggle with in some respect, is the moat right? Because, yes, If Nancy was planning on leaving him, would that be a motive could be other than that. I dont know what it would have been just rowing, or maybe maybe maybe, but that's it far episode on Crispin war. We got some voicemail geo objectives out this, hey making give me this is easily from Glasgow scorned. I have been a fan, sends look down to twenty two insect, I'm just looking. Crispin Benoit as lifelong wrestling you guys at an amazing job. I was fourteen winner happened, and I remember the lake it was yesterday. He locked the racing community who really looking forward to part to a case, Thank you guys should cover. If you haven't already caused me before I was listening, they will join, which took place, and

as was scotland, I would recommend that its unseen so maybe not for true came over time, but there you go anyway, goodbye sub region the voice mail? So much? You know me gives them a sucker for scottish accident. I know you are with my last name being ferguson, kalisz, scottish and preaching the the kudos on on the episode one. What I will say is we did cover Bible John. We did, but it is an unsolved. I don't know the episode number off the top of my head, but it was fairly recent. It's not been that long ago know how

This is amanda, I'm from Brooklyn, I'm a long time, podcast a few hundred for the first time ever called in. I just listened to the chris Benoit episode, part one gonna. Second, the best episode you better have ever put out the way you told the story was phenomenal and it's so tragic when you guys have such a good job and I'm still can't wait for next week required to, but I'm also calling because I don't even watch wrestling and I was practically screaming- really couldn't figure out the name for the villain and the good guy. It's the heel vs the face I paid for the guy and he'll, develop the bad guy and I'm an older millennial. So you know I never really feel like you're dating yourself, but when you can you think of the name for the real world, I was cracking up at least giving you that that's where the myth came from, but it's the real world anyway, you guys are great but the dynamics of the podcast and the time taken. I thought you from brooklyn.

If a book and naxa. So I did the real world, our member, when I came out here, but I think I was either in college or came out after I was out of college. It was it a period of time where I was not watching stuff like that so I never watched it, but the heel is what I was trying to think: ok, but couldn't think add the thing face. I've never heard that term me. Neither alright. You got a baby face, so you're the good guy to face and heal okay love. It reason, he'll love it and he might only be the mighty k from a fountain calling in regards to You covering the crystal case for are one was amazing. You had spoken about good guy vs, bad guy, determined

allergy, that most of them use his face and he'll face ears for her baby face, which would be the good guy and like the old flame for for the heroes and then heals who are the villains. That term heel comes from an early nineteen hundreds slang, which means a cum temple person or someone who is not quite white, so a quick little fact to throw at you their face and heal a bear, good guys and bad guys again. Love the podcast. Keep your own time taken you guys so who's the face and he'll hear where you're the face: oh okay and I'm the hill okay, despite cast the ceta or I should know. That is why all the love comes. Your work is that why you also have a baby faces, no budget yet more kind of backing that up the interesting thing that you and I always run into, is if we had time to sit around and think about it. We would probably come up with it, but when you're

thing: when you're talking off the cuff there's some things that just don't come, then this don't into your mind, to sue me quick enough here too, to keep going with the podcast so and then also over the years. You know we kind of want to leave a little bit of room for people to call in and and tell us the ants yeah exactly. I could look it up you could. I could stop the podcast I'm sitting in front of a laptop, but that kind of defeats. The whole point both of you and I and the way we do, I'm normally right nine. I'm point nine percent of the time yeah among you think you're right exactly, but we appreciate that most. We add a couple of things in the mail bag making curly weeks send some jerky yeah looks really get carry front. Colorado, since some bison jerky, but also sent each of us a really cool cutting bore.

Emily procedure and in the no she made sure that I let you pick the one you want yeah, but not out there whether I do or not nobody will now no, but we appreciate everything that that people send buddy that's it for another episode of true crime, all the times for might give you stay safe and keep her own time taking the the the I.