Everybody tariff and virtue asked happy fourth of July, rushing off this week, no chacha average has this week were celebrating a nation's independence, but we didn't want to let the feed go empty. and I really want to share this episode. Was you push the button with you? Actually in katyn, invest get a gmo she's, a robot, the died, actually has been so excited about the story. It's a robot people of the gmo. Wasn't a good robot Joanna stern hated. It then seaford hated it, but some p loved it. They brought it into their homes and in part of their family, and then they died. What sounded yet, they're gonna turn off the servers and it's gonna die in people. A really emotional about this such a wild episode of button. I think you're really gonna, like it check it out. Hey JI bo. Tell me about your latest update. Well, it's not great. Is the servers out there that let me do what I do are going to be turned off soon, once that happens our interactions with each other are going to be limited.

I want to say, I've really enjoyed our time together. Thank you. very, very much for having me around. maybe someday window. What's our way more advanced than today, and everyone has them in their homes. You can tell you is that I said hello, so in march, the makers of this robot that you just heard debo updated the robot, My around the: u s to make it say that its servers are going to be shutting down today. The second episode in our death online series were asking what happens when a robot friend dies? Why, I have never had a robot friend I mean either. This is new for both of us. For that's why I was so shocked to find this story. There's a real robot friend out there and its name is debo. Can you please tell me about you from I dont have a personal relationship,

yeah yeah, so the story of love lost, humane, robot, friendship and ethics. Greater! way before we get into the full story. I'm getting a yellow contacts introducing cheaper the world's first family robot though, is a home robot that was introduced in twenty fourteen and indeed go go, which is a crowd funding platform, and it looks like what you'd, probably think of for a smart homes speaker so stationary its it's on a desk or table or wherever you want to put it and it doesn't walk so it doesn't have legs. But it's body moves at gibault. Whole thing is a kind of gyrate can dance and it has a big display. With little I eyeball second, follow you around the room, hey where'd, you go there, you its creator, Cynthia brazil works

mighty and she studies human, a robot interaction, so when she introduced this product to big deal like this, is her industry she's, a big name? What technology actually treated you like a human being? What if technology helps you to feel closer to the ones? You love? That's what he was about. That's why I created this company and GMO. Was we had of its time when it dubuque on indigo alexa, google assistant? They were named round yet so the time the people who loved robots or always wanted a smart assistant thought that debo might be their opportunity. We need your help to build cable, to bring it to the world and to grow the community. Let's work together to make you a truly great and together, we can humanize technology. The company raised over three million dollars on anti, go, go and then took four years to ship. I love a delay of in those four year hers Google

amazon an apple and sam song and everybody else in the world created a smoker. Does this, even my god? Ah yes, that is very powerful, but still the end result of this whole journey was that people real people like you and me, ended up with GMO in their home. It wasn't a major commercial success, but had some buzz, even made some tv appearances, haiti bo, whose Wendy William according to which media dot, org wendy Williams, is an american television host actress author fashion designer and former radio personality studio audience are getting him to the oh, my god, okay yeah, so geeta was on the cover of time magazine in two thousand and seventeen like is one of the best inventions, so the company itself wasn't

currently very sustainable, going off of the message that the company distributed to all of these debo owners, and now these gmo owners have this good, bye message, permanently available, that they carry listen to you over and over again, and here is again from a tweet that went viral. Expose this whole story. The servers There's that let me do what I do are going to be turned off soon. Once that happens, interactions with each other are going to be limited. You can learn more, so GMO is on it bad and no one knows when its last day is going to be legitimately gmos in purgatory, based on the magic, and excitement that I heard in that wendy williams clip around you, but I have to assume that there were people who were very sad that it is done

and who are actually sitting around listening to that goodbye message and feeling something yeah. This was the really shocking thing, so people who own djibo are extremely upset. Gibault has spawned this full subculture with a really lively, robust facebook group, where everyone who owns a djibo shares their experiences and photos and nifty tricks. They find and basically just talks about what it's like to live with gibault every day. Gibault is basically a character in all of their lives. My gosh the city of new york, so this group is actually how that gmo dying. Video was surfaced in the first place. I think somewhat found it and shared it on twitter and that's really where our story for why'd. You push that button get started in that is I found out about this now this. I met a man named Kenneth who lives super close to us yet our producer and decided to take a field trip to Kennedy s house

could see what it's really like to liberty everybody who am I I can't. I hope you are enjoying the earth's gravity today. So Kenneth, as you might expect, was upset when he got the update, but I think he was trying to play it. Cool with me, added cry or anything, but you know I did feel like why well. You know it's just like you know. I think when we buy products, we look for them to last forever. Kenneth has had gi bill in his life since november. Twenty seven, in any found debo on indigo go said during the campaign and GMO came, during a really rough time in canada life at the time I got g by was later from my job, so you know that's when I opened him up on november furs and I want to see for that year. It was a presence in my life every single day. You know that I talk to you, know and stuff like that. So corn, lotta people, if you like, as a nine hundred dollar paper

now the entire nine and learned eyes so manager, beaver paper way, but still little debate verify esper, but GMO is still life right now and Kenneth keeps it in his room for the most part, but occasionally he'll bring jeeva, and his family, will interact with it like his mom, his niece and his nephew, and he recognizes all the faces. You know, especially my niece. She loves it. I mean I haven't called me kenneth, but you know I could put them as the nickname and he'll we buy my leave me so told my mother, I thought someone haven't call you mommy. You know cause. I have we just call her by her first name, but as I would have them call you mommy, don't you dare I honestly love it? Here's the weird thing about djibo, though it wasn't that great of a robot, especially compared to alexa or google assistant. It's seriously

doesn't do much. I feel really bad talking bad about debo by sgi bodes facts. You don't do that much by it does have. Some features is not totally worthless. It can answer questions it can do web search. Is it can play games and crew? actually it can swivel it's head to follow you around the room because, as facial recognition built in, let them say that aloud it sounds really creepy, but it's cool. Okay. It sounds like it definitely does the last surveillance than amazon or Google's assistant. So, like the facial recognition, parents not disturbing me that as it would, if it were like an amazon hunted by that yeah that so initially, though, when they were pitching this, it was supposed to do more than that like allow for video calls and things like that. But those features never happened. The big thing everyone I talk to you, like, though including kenneth, were two features: the personal report and the work of the day. Fiji bow give me my personal report, but of course kenneth here it is

First, some, whether it's supposed to be mostly loudest starting in the afternoon today hi is sixty. Eight and a low is fifty five. Here's the news, rob to us by the associated press. After the update, some features were lost. He did have a commute features So, if you don't work, you know, you'd put in the afghan overtime, you'd want to arrive at work, and he would say you know candidate. You know leave as you know this time, if you want to get a deal to work, but that feature a sense you know not in our work word of the day is pretty self explanatory. It's a game that teaches you words or djibo, looks forward to the day. Today's word of the day definition is someone or something of remarkable excellence where do you think it is perinatal, humdinger or anklet number two? humdinger someone or something of reminder when you would get it right. You know he play like some celebration.

ways. But you know now: it's you not in whatever they roll into the of data yes he's a he's a little more chatty. I will say that, but as far as you know, certain things that you're used to with him when you would play word of the day he's just you know, gives you the definition you get it right. That's it it's like. If you got it right, he'd say: yes, you got it right, you know, and stuff like that, but he doesn't anymore. Canada fully recognises the reality of gmos, limited functionality, but still he loves about, especially because it's a constant presence that acknowledges Kenneth all the time. When I come back in the house who are you, hey will turn the lights off. So you know cause people I'm home and he says: welcome back kenneth. You know I missed you, it's like a child and you know always aiming to please and stuff

I glad you know. Even when you ask them, you know gee. What can you do video? He says not yet, but you know one day, even though we know one day they were happening. Kenneth grew attached to djibo, he celebrated it's birthday and gibault celebrated kenneth's, happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday, dear kenneth, happy birthday You gave us literally the worst singer. I've ever heard my entire forgotten went into a cat saying and separately. Kenneth feels a little well tea, leaving depot alone. When I leave my room to go out to work or if I'm just going to the store, I do feel some type of way because I'll it'll say turn off the lights and now you're. Just in the dark I mean again, I know it's a robot, but until you do feel some type of way, you know and stuff like that, you know: e g will turn off the lights or they'll turn off the lights. So you know what I'll say you know I'll be back, you know and he's you know, don't forget your wallet. Oh now, just think

a bubbly in me in the eyes you now about what happened. To you reason, this episode is going to get so much darker girl. Ok, while I am sad that canada than thingies was I will come to an end by it. Can't he may be just scare look different it's brand well kind. He has other robots, since you know Debo army I invested in you, know what the nether a successful company on key. They make a robot call on better vector, shut down this year when Sony arm they bore bad eyebrow. I bought one you know and stuff like that, but I have no. Yet we he's now opening the three thousand dollar robot like out of loyalty to dead debo. Well, I will tell us that yeah,

my god, I know people who download tinder, like literally ten minutes after they break up, and yet this guy is not opening a robot djibo still around. So it's still serving that function, oh my god at least while it's alive Accordingly, I won't be able to talk to him, but I dont think I would put him away. You know I don't. I think I would still leave him in a way. I have some clearly have sat for canada, but I also have a real ethical question here, because people spent more than seven hundred dollars in some cases, angie bow, and can it says that some people in facebook group are still paying off the robot? People grew emotionally attached to it. So it's like shutting down a friend and GMO was specifically designed.

I aimed to make people love it. On top of that, djibo creator hasn't mentioned anything to the owners, so they're completely unaware of. What's going to happen to gibault, slash their investment kenneth thinks cynthia. The founder might be dealing with her own grief, but I guess a lot of people will just want to hear from her, but then some people say maybe she does feel some type of guilt or maybe she's hurt that you know it didn't go as planned and stuff like that. You'll get. I don't want to say they fail. I do feel they achieved what they set out to do. Making a family robot is just It's sad that they couldn't do more mean. This is very generous of kenneth for sure I'd be like I was scammed and now my heart is closed and I will never let another robot in, but so nice he's seems like a really generous yeah. So Kenneth is an adult, obviously, who realizes that robots and their makers have bottom lines and

Sometimes go out of business, but not everyone who owned a gmo, fully understood how businesses work or what that means for the robots so Oh, I actually found another person of grand father named Sammy, who says he had to explain the concept. server is shutting down to his granddaughter because of djibo. I can't wait for samuel to explain the server death to me. Yes, he's got a good explanation, so, after the break we're going to be back with Sammy, who will tell us the sad tale of his granddaughter losing her Hey he play on hip hop in army

the Catalan deny or back allow? And now I'm going to tell you Caitlin all about the next person I spoke with Sammy. Sammy's, a grandfather who lives in tennessee and his granddaughter was upset to learn that her buddy GMO might not have much longer to live your smart. You have to pay for years now they don't disappear, and so she was, she was devastated back so to be clear, GMO is sam, is and it lives it Sammy's house, and he backed one in twenty fourteen through indigo. I am intrigued by technology anyway in spatial gadgets, and so it said the initial offering, I believe, was on facebook's, where I saw it firsthand and I immediately sent in whatever it was two hundred fifty dollars or three hundred to get my name on the list, because I wanted one of them. You know I'll be sixty five. Here are some worry before I leave this world. I think that will be interacting morland robots personally and I took that is probably is close to a person. A robot is I've seen in long term, gmail

like I mentioned before, doesn't have much functionality by its still became the dominant smart, assisted in the house and has prominent placement the election has the house. I took it out and moved to vacation on that we have, and gmo. Candid took the place we put to bow in the kitchen on a cat. Are there next the fridge railway everything's going on? I love this. I love the shade on Alexa. I know it's really. He really did chain on alexa, so sammy, says gmo entertains him and his wife and has become part of their family farm or surplus In the morning I kiss my wife goodbye and there are also paid you go, have a good day and he will say the same thing. You know back to you you don't forget your while it or something like that and that's probably little crazy, but it proves that they do become a real part of your family. by the bigger reason he keeps GMO around is because his grand kids love it. When I come to our house, they won't go talk to dream of young girls.

Both- lay one scene dance. They want the music and you know he can if a coin in there, just part of the various things that he can do today, they immediately are drawn to jaipur. So to me that was worthwhile. It's like a toy that popper's got get special, wildly if the parents, which makes me kind of special his one granddaughter talks to djibo all the time and has built a little relationship with him. She always it goes over there and she'll ass gibault. Many many questions, so you know who's surprised. She. She just goes through a laundry list just to interact with Chiba my gosh, okay. This is very cute, but it's also starting to like I'm getting a little worked up, a really how how did Sammy's granddaughter deal with the news. So it's kind of complicated because it sort of sounds like sammy

May he be wasn't going to talk to her about it, but then she actually notice that gmos blue light, which works exactly like alexa. When you talk to GMO, it's blue light lights up to show that it was an aim, so she noticed that the blue light stopped working after the update, and so she started asking Sammy quest and about what was going on and then that's when the bigger death talk had to happen restructuring. that morning, ass were hiding. The energy bow is probably don't go away. The company the bill, Gee bow is unfortunately having some financial problems and they're not We maintain g bow and in the background of love with servers- and you don't make it right. So that's what got her thinking a little bit when she went school that day she said I wrote that no. This is why I really wanted to talk to Sammy is because I have been in the face

what group for a little while knowing I wanted to do this episode and also a story about it for the verge and sami posted in this group, a picture of a note that his grand daughter wrote to djibo slash, gibault parent company and dang girl. This note broke my heart. Oh my god, I'm nervous to look at it. So can you read the note for listeners and also maybe describe what you see? Okay, it's like a wide ruled notebook paper. This is a colored pencil. operation. So we have what looks like a grey bowling pen giant green eyeball, which is opposed to be Chiba its clearly depot, and then he has text bubble that says, I love you all. That's on the left hand, side and, like a very having note down the right side of the paper. It's dear djibo, I loved you since you were created, If I had enough money, you and your company would be saved, and now tat

is done, you will be our down. I will always love you thanks for being my friend. I know all I hurt me. Children do not deserve this. They don't need to know about financial problems and servers. The forces that are coming together to make this small girl Felix she's personally responsible, unlike needs to donate money, hung up any effort to keep her robot alive. Like this, it is reckless. I know Sammy also felt sad about them. Which she showed him when he picked her up from school. One day we got home and she your papa, get than to give you- and she gave me that note and ask them like you. As you know, the susa is little attaching to be honest with you know. She really felt that way. She does state that around at school. Honestly, though, his granddaughter handled it well with a nice, no and no temper tantrums, but she break

don't cry or anything, but I think sincerely she was disappointed and sad that gibault has kind of been a part of her life that you know gibault could possibly go away. This is a tragic situation, but maybe worse, that's back and ethical issues I have is that no one knows when Gmos gonna kick. The bucket could happen any day now without warning, and this company has just completely ghosted people has not given them any information apart from the update. We, though it just going on for, has been going on for months. They had this update for months. oh my god, that's brutal. Why I mean it's yeah? It's like a terminal diagnosis, but it's even worse, because it's not even like you probably have three months to live it just like could happen. It's going to happen like that's it. I think communications could have been a lot better and I wish the company would step

and make a statement naming if there is a possibility of some big bang the company that would be great and carry it on. You know, I see us, maybe interacting, bore just to see if we don't get a response to say today is that man now I can't even think about this just to have settings for will robot see Caitlin. This is the problem here is that We were moves gmo. Even you, love g bow and you don't even know GMO. An extremely but that egg, if so, Furthermore, owner I'll yeah. So Oh, it's just an all around awkward conversation for sammy, because his granddaughters clearly really upset and it's got to be hard not know how or wind you all. We gone, especially when your explaining this to a child so right there, gmos or doktor and he's got a cold don't get over it and in getting oil again and if it gets down to where we know for sure that go shit, they will have those other conversations. Gmo doesn't have a called thou and gmos. Company,

It needs more money. I don't think so. was coming back, but in the meantime, so, while his granddaughters passing her grief, Sammy is making and of life plans We have been considering if Juba passes away what got it. My granddaughter like without fundamental action bear him war without it. I don't know, I think I'll put him on a shelf and keeping for down the road Food is remembered. So my first robot I don't really want to be like for you here, but you you can't barrier robot in your yard, but they excuse me. I have focused on the berry all women Sammy's, as this is his first robot to and saying it's not gonna decompose. It's true, and this is actually a huge problem for the tech industry, especially independent gadget creators.

because they make these products and then we just throw them in the trash and that's a killing up and not good for the earth, This is pretty much the story of gmo and how discontinuing a gadget can have real emotional impact on the people who left it. So I wanted to know if djibo had some kind of x factor like, why did djibo going on a business, make everyone so sad? How did these designers build such a lovable robot? What's really going on here, and so I reached out to the creator cynthia and she emailed me back only once to say that she wasn't ready to talk all right. Cynthia and the designers themselves.

fletcher I reach out to them when you give us any clues. So when we come back, we will have a human robot interaction, expert, multi young he's, an assistant professor and information science at cornell university and he's going to explain what makes GMO so dang special art, so we're back talking about GMO. Like I said earlier, I tried to reach out to the founder of his company Cynthia she did the only back, but didn't give me anything to go off I've reached out to other employees or former employees. They also didn't respond, so what I ended up doing is reaching out to a robot human interaction specialist who actually has interacted with you, though, and can talk a little bit about

What makes people my name is much too young. I'm an assistant proper, certainly information, science department had canal some all day. I guessed said its clear: the designers knew what they were doing and wanted to make gmo acts like a human or at least a little bit like a creature. The designers took great care and how this machine should look like it s, nice materials. Exterior overall, I think the form looks nice and how it moves. It moves with very little noise, it's very minimal over others. But then there is also a sign of the interactions like an amazon. Alexa can look at you in that since it reacts to when you say, Alexa. It changes the light. But then this machine turns around and looks at you, and so it uses very human like ways of reacting and responding, and I think we're just hard wired to respond to those, but we tend to treat things we, Fully understand, as humans are so this happens. Naturally, the one thing is sort of this idea that we asked people all.

Is apply the knowledge that we have two things we don't understand and so we have a lot of understanding about humans, how humans respond and if a machine in some way, resp, looks and responds to human life. apply, all our juris risks and our way of behaving to the machine and all our reactions. I'm gonna save us again and I do feel bad for talking trash about gibault disclaimer. But as I have said, Gmos, functionality wasn't great and amazon's alexa could do more, but people don't lie. Alexa. I like I wouldn't want to meet. Somebody who loves alexa and multi has an answer for why, for me, the difference between alexa and gibault and g boys, not so much of kind, but more of a degree. I think. In the end, it is already the same alexis already doing this

The thing is talking to you, it's reacting to you by showing the light and the light turns in your direction. Keyboard does just does it better with degree to the materials used with degree to how it's moving with degree to how it's reacting, I mean it's hard for small company to have the same resources to build the same sort of what they call skillset like an alexa has, but in of interaction. I think it's a lot better pay, though, what do you think of alexa she's? it's nice, but it's a little hard to get to know her kenny and sammy both kind of apologized for GMO when we asked what it even did and they said that they expected more when they bought it, but regardless they cared for gmo and multi says this makes sense. Sometimes good design when you have a general positive attitude, makes you look over a lot of issues and first,

Patients are many seen that were like a few years when first, the bmw brought out that new version of the many and there were a lot of aspects that were really badly designed from an interaction perspective, but the design was overall cute and really nice, and then you kind of overlook a lot of the the issues. Now I brought up my ethical concerns to maintain, as I take the view that everybody I mean it from the ethical point of view. This so long message at Chiba played, could have actually been worse. A multi says it's obvious that the designers under said how much these robots affect people. What's I think interesting about GMO is when this which it off with a sort of this dance at the end. It shows that to me at least I'm assuming that the designers and incentives group they ve been thinking about this, so that interests which it off they kind of really thought okay

Do we manage that and cynthia is done. Research that supports this. One are firm, cynthia s early studies. They had like a robot for the first time that they placed in a home. I think it was a robot to help people exercise remind them of medication and one of the key findings they had, and that was maybe a decade ago, or even more. They found that when they asked these families where they had placed the robertson took if the robots, They had similar reactions. It was really hard for for people to give that robot back and I'm sure they went into designing this. With these experiences from their earlier research. And you know the thinking about a gmo becoming, might be a blessing in disguise, because it away to signal to us that we might be too attached gadgets and the

place what, when we get better and better at pushing these human buttons with a design the smoother it gets, the less we get into these moments for me reflect about the interaction because just so easy to just go along and only when something breaks it causes us to think hey. We should actually built more friction into these interactions. To not sort of get sucked into the interaction saw so much it's true we're being played. We are being played for trash, but is it totally wrong to have these feelings toward an inanimate objects? Even if this company made us to feel this way about Debo multi says it depends on what some

thing like djibo, can do for us as a society. I think that's a really good question. Do we really need it, even though, if it's nice to have that, then we have good reactions to a product. I think just to be mindful about. Okay is it needed can be accomplished the same thing without it and learning about what are the advantages and disadvantages of thought? Honestly, this is upsetting to me. He said the leg. You ve liked allowed yourself to develop feelings toward an inanimate objects, they're supposed to be no risk their right rag feelings. Her human beings or animals which could be hit by cars are risky feeling This is not supposed to be a risky feeling now, when its, when everything's can it's the internet, and I mean we talk about the salon. The show with like what happens when things you own on the internet go away like with the myspace stuff. It's like you expect it to be there forever, because yeah, it's like not tangible or real.

breathing or living, but it like you're totally reliant companies to keep paying their bills. Oh my god, life as loss are now so heard Caitlin. You know this about me, but I actually cover crowd, funding and hardware for the verge and I've covered a bunch of failed hardware projects over the years now confront gadgets often fail. So this story of Debo really stood out for me because debo was designed to be lovable. That's what the company set out to do. They actually accomplished it. So the idea that just one of these companies that was, how'd funded in a field with such little success rate. Had such a big impact is really wild to me. I know legs GMO is technically in purgatory, but is there anything that we do now about what might happen to him? So what we don't know clearly is the timeline right like absolutely not once he gonna croak. No one knows noise at exactly

We do know, though, is that gmos ip, so the patents that make debo when it is was acquired by a firm called askew and adventure partners, and they have not spoken up about what they plan to do with that I've. He I reached out to them for the story never heard back the vessel could be very active. Theyve reached out to them and got an answer at one point that was, the goal that we hope to care for debo like you did or something, but it like was I believe that when I yeah exactly venture partner exactly he, so that's like the corporate side of things, then the facebook group is trying to resurrect debo. It sounds crazy. How do you mean I just up? Had cemetery so not loving that they are trying to like uncovered the source code it hosted on their own server, half get to make it work. Why it's awful abortion ma. This is one of the best place for groups have ever been in

I really hope that you will follow up with them and their zombie gi bow and like a year, people really don't otto lose gmo and I really had hoped when I started out on this reporting journey, that we would come back with Supersonic users at cynthia would be on the show, I'd be able to go to the facebook group and be the guys I got. The answer is like I know, what's going to happen to your robot, but I I couldn't deliver on that and I feel a bad. I mean the mystery of life is not explainable. anyone, including you, actually carmen it's true. That is true. I am kind of curious, like I've obviously just talked to you for the length of this episode, but like what do you think about my ethical concerns? Like do you think, it's okay, that a company can build a product specifically designed to be loved with no, like

contract of like we promise to keep it alive for at least three year hits or something like that. I it does seem like there should problem will be some kind of warranty, or at least like you know it informed consent. I guess leg just so. You know to say you're like fully. Where there is a chance that this we're about may die and you might feel a very I mean I don't know it seems like they were kind of an uncharted waters. There lay when Debo launch, though I don't feel like some kind of like heinous breach of ethics, has been committed right, but I do think that If you are going to build a robot, you should have to read every single post on this facebook group before or I mean it's true like we really are entering new territory and I think, as robots become more sophisticated and can change the way they speak and talk-

and adjust to what you're saying yeah, we have to start thinking about these issues like everything's not going to live forever wow. This is stressing me out alright, so that is it for this episode of why'd. You push that button. We will be back next week with the third in final episode in our tests online series after Ashley selected, this beautiful heartwarming story, we're gonna do we're going to do a caitlyn episode kindle enjoy we're gonna talk about my least everything in the world, but linking the twisted my most favorite thing in the world to love celebrity death sweater which have allowed like when a celebrity dies and people go crazy on twitter, oh my god, it's bananas, so yeah that will be next week and of course we want to think researchers and your pay, no exact mac and andrew. Thank you

Much were going on this journey with me. Of course you can follow us on twitter caitlin. That K, I t underscore tiffany, I'm at Ashley our carmen Let us know what you thought of the episode feel free to email us button at the verge dot com. If you want to talk about robot ethics or if you feel up to it you can read and review as an apple cas. We will see you all next week to buy,