We with our eyes and our mouths, obviously, but also our brains noon, can help. You learn more about that psychological component to healthy eating, new music science and personalization. So you manager, wait for the long term start taking control of your weight. management and joined the millions who have lost weight with new. You can sign up for your trial today at noon. Dot com, that's in o, o m dot com to sign up for your trial today,. The hello and welcome to the verge, has the flagship podcast of mark Zuckerberg and elon musk fighting in a cage. The exclusive team covering it Alex heath broke the story: yeah, that's fine! proud of him he's a great importance. Not only did Alex heath break this story, I think, Alex you think we'll did into existence. That's the problem really

but is it alex, is going in the reality and that's that's fine and we can talk about it There's mark Zuckerberg really wants to do this. He should, and I feel that we should be very proud of ourselves as the versions journalistic institution that we have become in also deeply extremely ashamed that this is happening. Her watch, that's right! Here's the story, I'm your friend me! I Alex Francis here, I'm your friend who could take mosque in a fight. The public can take second of it. The more that's it David fierceness, here high. I have already called dibs on being the sideline reporter, who interviewed the fighters between rounds can be unbelievable. We run a gigantic sports website Destinations right there they have a giant combat sports operation are well hawaii is part of the box media. Which we can do it now, we're gonna do it. This is the corporate synergy. We ve been waiting for this

draft kings, nation, espy, nation partnership with draft kings are dealing run at odds on this fight. It's a lot there's a lot going on here. Here's. What I will to we have nothing to do with it by where they're just doing their thing. It's just very funny here's the story, as we know it today, instagram is going to watch some competitor twitter, its hold threats. We screen shots of it from presentations that were given inside of better their position This is what they said. The hands out teeth reported on was people want a competitor twitter that is, we run, that's what they said. audience of meta employees. I clap to this, which is also very funny, given that matter does not have a sparkling content. Moderation aquaculture, but whatever metaphysical

like set up the fig supreme court of content. Moderation that they're doing in a different way ilan is, I would say, not doing it that way, he's running twitter in a different way. It's that feels correct here with severe political way to say it. I like that yeah one is a train and the other one is like an out of control, haunted car from orb of two different ways: a business. You know TAT every now and again someone anti cutters like I don't know how I make decisions, I get drunk and foot coins until I fall down and that's one way to run a business find this out. Iran has been to put a tweeting about suck like tat. So this instrument and better since rampart arena, talk about in much more detail and just a second because causing lot of drama rated social networks of internet? However, someone goes, the eu on into tweeting. He would like to cage fight zadok weight. Can I just

in actual fact, not only someone, I'm just I'm looking at sweetheart right now. It is like the most beautifully twitter thing about him. So Marie on now fall. I think as hey pronounced it tweeted lots of followers is like a thing you and musk would potentially have seen. You learn responds to a tweet about instagram threads being a thing he responds. I'm sure earth can't wait to be exclusively under sucks them with no other options. At least it will be seen was worry there for a moment, laugh crying emerging and then a person on twitter who has sixty eight followers. Sixty eight and oblige One assumes that no blue check surprising. You must chicken is unverified replies, therefore, whose username is k w mark off to six six five six and whose username is kind of you mark off at a while back It's very risky hunts, better, be careful, audio musk. I heard he does the jujitsu now and then nine different laughing emerges and then too, you and musk response. I'm up for a cage

if he is Ella well right and that's how this all became. Sixty hit. Followers haunted car its outcomes. a legend zack response in this my screen in aliens tweet. There is apparently, if it's a reference to some famous mme fighter, and he just puts block text over That says, send me location. You would think that story has now reached its cringes point: their nets, the cringe level. There is in here's where our friend now exports gasoline on the fiery reaches out to meda and says: is this real? Does you actually want to fight musk, which is, I would say, Just a very funny thing for a or to ask. Does you or billionaire ceo sea wish to fight the other ability in our city for real, or is he just taunting him with references to fighting in the annals of journalism, that's chapter one and they like most people. We assume it's just a taunt, because their very rich, very pasty, bill.

But it is true that mark Zuckerberg has been training and he has martial arts seated fight with rogan and he had made a video of himself training. This whole thing that he is complete in tournaments. Samantha Pierre It speaks from south. He wants to find him and now Everything we have heard is zog is actually serious about this too pushing for luminaries of a fight worlds, son I'll get involved, Jake Paul. Like our run it and european plus just very sounded like a fighter tuna yeah, there's no money being an influence her as we want. the various energy later but, like you can be a famous in full answer and then your immediate moves to find something and an eminent turn that is social media, seers pivoting to combat smokers, it's like it's the same thing, it's like There's not a lot of money in social media, get I'm gonna view of its fight. It needed, collects and actual dollars here anyway,

is this story has gone from funny alex heath choke on the website to what I would describe as an end capable and exhausting worldwide phenomenon weird, but people are taking action on this fight. That hasn't happened and should not have, guys remember in two thousand and six, the resist director named ui bull, who is known for doing like horrible garbage, video game, adapt adoptions and critics hated him, and he was like I'm going to fight critics, and so he invited them all to fight, including like low tax, the founder of something awful proceeded to beat every single one

them like destroy. That was the saddest thing in the world. I knew one of the guys and he's like yeah, I'm going to fight 'em and you're like oh and that's kind of I'm kind of worried for elon. For that very reason, cause these guys were like well. Whenever he's a film director, I can fight him and like no he's like he's like Zach he's like getting a little was jacked was like reading. Put the link to zach fighting a guy in the senate, there's a youtube video yeah. I don't think it's going to be it's going to be an interesting fight. I want to make it very clear. My position is that these men should not fight each other they drove hair. I think that would be good for the world now. It would be like the most excruciating thing to watch and kissed. I think I'd feel like we re the point where we just shut it when I say that as my position nominally, that would be the editorial position of the verge but I suspect very strongly that in a sort of me

me type situation. The editorial position of the verge is composed by his staff is let them and I'm a little worried about that, but we're just gonna who elect them. Fight the old thing I can say with absolute certainty? Is that there has already been a meeting at the w w e about how to get you on mosque and more exact forward into a rain together, yeah, and if it has it, please me meter that vidic the last thing I will say about this, then we should actually talk about the the real drama with instagram threads. The last thing I will say is ilan: is the w w e in fact, as the usa and those things are not necessarily compatible bright like that, actually, the split here is here on, I think, would definitely the w w thing I think zach wants to actually punishment thickest that feels right. Let's talk about the actual we'll see I'm sorry, I don't know we do not condone,

violent. How do you explain like an apologetic? Curiosity? I think that's right, like you just like you know one of that flits across my eyeballs on a tick tock. That's I'll! Wait a second before a swipe up what's pre guilt, that's so what's the word? I'm looking for type find your charge diabetes and we think, what's the word for pre guilt, send it to me Ok, we shall know the real drama. We answer m threats, which I think is like drama the virgin designed to cover If you like me, think that we are reaching a moment for the social web, it appear each appear. Spiteri itself did she is like we're inside. I read it in the next section. Read it has one sort of conclusion twitter has come to a very different sort of conclusion. Facebook is in sending a very traffic anymore. Like that thing, the web of the sort of mid twenty tens, his like run its course.

Church, no one's get any like animal traffic anymore. I could cite inside. If we don't do it look you traffic. In them you she was having the media Buzzfeed news is shut down about sweetest pivoting toward some that web. That particular web is coming to a close. Something else is going to happen, we have talked on the verge, has been on the verge a lot about activity pub at blue sky, but these federated social networks, and now the first big entrant is It seems imminent, instagram threads, which we think is compatible with activity. For evidence, for this is some good reporting. And a little bit of a mention on one side, but there like launched it. We don't know, The existing federated social network mastered on and the threat of our set large, which are run on activity pub, I would say david- are reacting to this very poorly yachting. right. So one of the weird quirks of defence.

First, and macedonia in particular, is that it is very proud of itself and sort of insular is not famous for being. An open group of people excited to welcome new, people in from wherever their coming. There are normally we ve talked about this and show their norms. Lake everybody calls it the bird site and not twitter, and if call it twitter on Macedonia or like shamed for it. It's just that in place with the various sort of specific set of like in crowd. He rules and the assumption is- and I think correctly, that if and when in swim launches threads this competitor, the code name, we ve, heard, is project. Ninety two that it will instantly be by far the biggest thing on the federal right leg, it stands to reason. Interim is enormous, you'll be able to take it. scram handle and turn it in euro federalists handle in this up? There will be combated with activity, but so in that moment did the first open social web. That's power by activity pop goes from a lot of little pieces with master.

and being kind of the largest little piece to instagram, and then everybody else and there are a lot of people who, on principle, do not want matter to be part of this thing. There's is. There is just a belief among some people that this would be a bad thing, that it is a bad company run by bad people who will do bad things for the better verse. They will destroy the open standards, they will ruin everything and they are fighting absolute tooth and nail to convince everyone to not then basically allow mehta into this world. I, like that's the point of having something, be open source and then actively reject when you have new participants so technically met met. I can do this without asking permission rightly, can build a thing or two if any pub terrific. But what is true is if you run- and this is part of the beauty of these systems- actually like when it works with. This allows Adam

to do is say: ok, my version of my sort of little corner of the federer is compatible with lots of things, but I get to choose the folks who can't even come into the room right like we're all using the same standard, but I'm not going to allow these people over here to be part of my club because Jeanette, whatever they suck their nazis there. mean teenage boys, they send news whatever. I just dont want the report. So you have these tools by which everybody is sort of on the same playing field, but you get to like have your own space. If that's a thing that you want, and by and large I think, that's a good right and, as this has been small, it has basically been like. Ok, if you're gonna be a good actors operating in good faith, we're all gonna be open to each other and What is now happening is that deal largest player by far is perceived by some. these people do not be a good actor, acting in good faith, and so what's gonna happen. If this point

is up into anything that was shocked, but whether it's going to because I'm suspicious that this is actually anything. It's just going to divide right like there's going to be two different things powered by same thing, and it would be like gmail users not being ill email, outlook, users and that's that's where this would land. If matter, the rest of the federalists like really part ways from each other. Yet so two things of note here one lots of good reasons, do not trust better hundred percent about half which are directly related to matter itself and its actions at its advertising practices and content moderation standards in its general platform of unsavory care. The whole thing, so that's about half of the reasons do not trust meta, meta itself, the other half. The reasons are like the hit. Three of this thing happening before microsoft shows up to the web within it explore and we love http, have you heard of active, x and

just voiced a version of the web on top of the web. They had a name for this. It was embrace, extend extinguish, they would embrace the Santer, they extend it with proprietary. Next actions and they would extinguish the standard and they will be in charge of everything famously this got them into so much trouble with the web. The government sued them almost broke them up, entered into massive consent decree created the internet as we know it, because microsoft was distracted from mobile. They had like Google show this whole thing happened, I would note right now and we all not tyler, in this episode, but as we speak, microsoft is in trouble. the accuracy and thereby activision and added Tom are covering that in real time like while we're taping, so what will get some headlines later from the trial but will cover it in depth on Wednesday show em. embrace extend extinguish is real. Microsoft. Did it to the internet as a whole. Google in many ways, has done it to the web, like big players sharp to open community

is they establish themselves, is big players and then they take over. My favorite example of this a lot of people. Remember is messaging services. Remember a million years ago when all domestic services ran on like similar protocols and you can have an app like jabber that pulled you're, asking hasn't during your yahoo messenger and you're google messaging all into one up and everything was sort of cross compatible and google just said never mind. Gigi doesn't run away that stuff anymore and at all, just instantly broke. That is in extend extinguish, figure, yeah the job very hilariously about speaking the government, my favorite toddy topic government regulation of the internet when aol bought time warner. This is a true thing that happened when I go about time warner the first time someone or killed it so company, never fails. The government demanded the bush administration demanded that aol make aol instant, messenger, interoperable because they proceeded at that time at that time. Back in those days to be alone,

So, if ale own, the content enable on the sticky messaging service note that no one would switch yeah the bush administration well, and it's like speaking of aol when they first went into usenet to right. Yeah usenet was: was this big community, a lot of nerds, it was the early internet adopters. They were all loving it. Aol started to provide support for usenet, so like little thirteen year old me could be like yeah, I'm going to go have you know about the story of eternal september, I've kind it. No, I ate briefly. He lived it, but, unlike I was the trash people I wasn't one you ve come a long way so eternal september as one of my favorite phrases year of internet lingo, so early early night is basically out got access here. It would be the they went to college right in my colleges would hand out like tower pcs and ethernet connections and harm sancy college

will they wouldn't have. They was a sight. They will tell you that you have to buy a tower pc pc and give you inner connection europe, so you people would get too college in september and they would sign onto the internet and on to use that, for the first time on their hard wired internet connection in their dorm and they would just wreak havoc on internet. Forms, because I had no idea how to behave rate. So every september was chaos on the internet, because the kids are shocked to college and sign on the internet for the first time in just act like Hell, students on internet and and the unity was big enough and they could see that this was happening. time box enough wrangle, the college students back into line there in the community operate until they teach them the next September september. Nineteen. Ninety four would come in the the college students would shop in period. And use that and they would wrangle the maximum so every september sky. aol shows up, says

every year, while user has access to use that in the dominant hearse rotter america was online if we lower online and they flooded usenet with like everyone's mom and like all caps yelling and like crazy and dick use that community started calling this the september than ever and eternal september. it just it was just always september every day. It was the chaos and the community could know, the wrangle it back into line it was escalating chaos. I get kicked out of an x files usenet during that time, because I was like ten or eleven. No, what I was doing, I wasn't very gay, were you are part of eternal say I was part of the eternal september resisted: what's up nerds cows and I'm the face of eternal september yeah. It's me this to me is one of those moments was a great just and cover,

advice has a great article that september forever. You should go read, it will put it in the show notes. This is one of the concepts that has defined like internet communities for generations. Now, since the early nineties. This concept maternal september. You build this tiny little community and then it hits. The scale pointed influx of new users, in the existing moderators, existing community the norms disappear because you just can't constantly enforce them. The way you could, when I was However, many college students went to college that September right, its everybody all the time, and I think lot of what maxthon is responding to these yet metaphor matter. Very valid criticisms there, yes embrace, extend extinguish, but also oh shit are clubs about it, not the exclusive anymore. I see that support where I really think they're being overly dramatic and I'm so sorry to you masted on you

You're with me in the eternal september like come on, guys you're you're, being a little dramatically thing below massillon might have been the people, is the other your side of eternal. Yet ever you guys were probably on the other side of it in. You should know better at this point, because one it's hard to find things on masted on currently. So, how likely is it that all of those people coming from instagram organist suddenly be descending into all of these mastered on communities? Really even We don't block them because a lot of them it sounds like, are blocking them and they're not organized the same way at all right like so there's that part of it into when things are more accessible. It tends to make things better, like I don't know if I would work at the virgin and be in this community. If I hadn't had that access at a young age- and I certainly hadn't- had that didn't- have the tools then to access usenet the way the rest of you guys were accessing it. So, like

I think, making things more accessible is always better. And yes, it does mean that the that it dilutes these communities pretty quickly and it does change things, but it often ultimately changes things for the better Even though, in this case Mehta is the one doing the changing and that creates a whole others set of issues. I really think the fact that its matter is the thing here and I think it's it's the fact that its metal across kind of all three of the points you just made me like you in the case of there are about to be a lot of people coming and sort of disrupting our club, which I think is real right. I think Macedonia. Particular. Has this real like we are the eight do we are the place that you go to get away from twitter right, like that's, that's its vibe. and in the same way that twitter is obsessed with twitter. Like Macedonia, obsessed with twitter, it really is, and now my is coming in and a there. I

here it is overwhelmingly likely that Sir grams product is going to be a better product than mastodon. Yeah it's gonna have a better identity system, because this gun borrowed from instagram its can have better discovery, because that something that matter is really good at. Like eight will, it will emerge immediately be the default product for the fetters. I've not I wouldn't get see that that's going to happen, but I would say that is overwhelmingly likely. That's what's going to happen that it will. It will instantly be the biggest and best thing on the federer, verse and so You bring in not just a flood of new people, but a flood of new people coming from instagram, which has its own set of rules in north and cultures that people hate and I think, if, if mozilla, suddenly brought in You know a hundred million people on Mozilla doubt social. I think there are people with feelings, but it would not be this aggressive and contentious and like knee jerk, we can't allow these people here, but because it's meta- and I think specifically because it's instagram- and because it's like you, you can just imagine what all

The lake celebrities in influencers end com enters uninsurable. Do what I can make that simpler? For you, it's a bunch of girls. like there's a part of this report, because its instagram a bunch should do Thirdly, on mastodon, who figured out how to set up a mass on the count and mike dear and my past. All the nerd tests is like we ve, no girls allowed. There's a big stick. Vibe of like when I go into a comic shop and I have to like defend my knowledge of comics and usually show them the superman poster. There's a bit like. That's the feeling I'm getting here where it's just like. Oh, you can't join, and it's like guys get over yourself like. I don't think all these instagram influencer is going to be on your meant mastodons in destroying, but this is actually the tumblr users that are eventually coming and all the other activity pub users like get over it.

I think this is a big difference between what's happening now and the the use and example that we are talking about which is used that was organised by topic. So I cannot believe I swear to you sound just do it. I really having this time in the fact that we are coming. we are embarking on completely resetting the internet is so exciting. To me, I feel, like I may be the only one I can see it at all times. We argue, and back people. We are in full everything all this new again territory, and it is deeply entertaining I forget who was but this into somebody a few months ago who said that when we were about this era in the history books, the last fifteen years will be a blip on them. Our it would be like one giant false start that we all made towards one way that the internet could work, and then we went right back to the way it was before and get moving forward, and I honestly think: that's where we're it until this ends fifteen years from now, and we go right back to a bunch of centralized social network that services use that's still out there, it's still yeah pendulums swing back and forth. Unfortunately,

you never landed exactly the right spot and stay there. We haven't figured that out yet. but the way use I was organized was baby, but more less read it might read, it is closer to use networked so imagine if every so amber ten million absolute these descended on red. It found all that because they wanted and started going insane right like that's how that worked, that's all Twitter works at our instagram threads is gonna work. I think, there's still a follow graph. There will no one's one's gonna find your like furries mastodon, I come it, I write, and so the question of the federating is really just a question of whether you want to be connected to matters version of this at all? Well, that's that's true, and it isn't right like. I think why the interesting things about the way that the federalist works is you. You can have things like tags that you actually do work. Sentences, and there are people out there who have really careful systems for how things get tagged and how we think about topics, and you can sort of being

on space, but also have access to through things like tags and topics. The other that other it simply a smaller part of how it works, but I think because it's still such I'd like power user tool, there are definitely alive. Of people on mass who have like curated tags That's that they use and all of a sudden legion, and when this happens scram all the sudden, everybody got nuts about the tags to try and gave him the explore page when people. I go, I think, that's the kind of thing that people worry about and is exactly what you're describing. I think it's it's simple you less likely than it would be something like this were to happen. To say, read it like you said, but I do think that risk is real here there we'll see. I fingers is among the most interesting versions of this to happen right that parallel to lots of other things. Are there in? What's interesting, many other things have played out microsoft. Attempting to colonise the web played itself alec from start to finish, wheat. We see how that when it actually a little bit of it,

venture in a little bit of competition. They were successful at doing, and now there are big baby and another They just want to own call of duty. Why won't you some have cash you can see how Google's various attempts calmness web have been successful and unsuccessful overtime another day, example actually is apple, then open source kind of in a general sense, like they showed up with an open source, colonel and o s. Ten ever invented and pick lennox. They picked another project. That project does not have a life outside of apple, rarely pages like took it and they made it they're thing they did the same thing with rendering engine inside of safari. They they took him existing one they built upon it. Now that apple dominates that environment right. That does all good things. I don't think you know, and looking back and saying man, webcam or social who hinder open source merger yeah.

Apple adopting unix, really destroyed everything tat we ve just seen recycles common, go in very different ways, and I think fundamentally they were not good or bad, but the parallels are there in the negative. people are extremely wide open to them, and this one is particularly funny because it is the oldest of them all right. It's the big service providers and dumping users on a pretty close system, are pretty small system and like they are having the same reaction. Has a bunch of people in the nineties had to it. Destruction of them are the same people from the nineties yeah, which is pretty good I'm going to be I'm going to be on the other side again cause like I've got my mastered an account. I barely understand how it works and as soon as the instagram threads come so long, yeah I'll give it a go because the user experience will likely be a lot easier. Yes, and at this point in my life, I'm not interested in tinkering with that. I've got a whole smart home to tinker

I don't need to tinker with my social media so like yeah, ok ago experience it this way and see what it's like. When you have all of those resources you have like very good user interface, designers and stuff. Participating in this year, and we also just don't know what level of inter operability there's going to be any sack ride like it could just be garbage and it doesn't even touch most of the rest of the universe and then it's like a boy. We share panicked What is it you can post and people can follow you, people on a different we can follow your answer account. You can follow people from driven servers. That seems, like the basics, may there's a lot of other things you can do you can build? helstone moderation, services, that's or for is doing with with blue sky and others you Could they can have a moderate not with masted on, but with these read it I'll turn, it is like, let me and came in there's. A lot of waste there from what we understand instruments extorting, have meetings

the meetings are under india, which is also extremely. contentious in this community of I'll. Tell you We go have meetings at these companies. We were journalists, we went on sunday and is. I was just look at that. I've had the heart- and I say now and then there's I and I go and get me a different badge in that bag site. Don't I this person to look at this first, I get it I don't see any ideas, but I if these conversations are basically meta sessions. Here I was trying to be a good participant and like what they're facing as we don't want you to be here yeah, I I do think one one more sort of broad point I would make is, I think one of the things that is a real worry is that pathetic, vs absolute, not ready for this many people. I think you could argue that the federalists isn't ready to have as many people as it currently has its

It's been a really interesting thing to watch both with twitter folks going to Macedonia and with breaded folks gonna things like. Let me in katyn. Those products are not done there like beta tech projects, everyone who works on them can make you a long list of things, that's wrong with them and they are now trying to figure out and it's just complicated. And slow work to build one of these things and then all of a sudden like it's not an accident that, like nobody, was talking about haven and then all of a sudden a lot already users are looking for somebody go, they find it and even on Cuban's website. It's like this is alpha software, I would propose showing up because they just need somewhere to go right, and I think one of the things on this fatty pact, that a lot of people are signing, which is this like incredible hot, pink website. It's beautiful one of the very first things that they mention about why? This is a thing that you should sign and you should not let that are on its back.

At moderation and it's partly about content moderation based on the assumption that meta is bad at it and won't do it for it's own stuff, which will then pollute the rest of the fetters. But it's also about the fact that no one has figured this out, because this got to scale so fast that most of the tat moderation is done by the people who own the specific servers, which is just like a dude in his house for the most part and figuring out how to do country our at this scale has been tough like when I wrote this robot activity pub. I think it was a neo dash that I was talking to who was like. If Instagram shows up and just dumps thirty million people into the federer. The whole thing is going to collapse and I think that's a real valid fear macedonia is by no means a finished product that is ready for this. Many people to be interacting with it right, that's fair, I just you know it's impossible. This is impossible.

and yes, the thing that they are saying about. Content moderation is not met as bad at it. I think meta is exactly as good at it is. It wants to be yeah and it's actually like, if you take the politics out of it, meta is very good at it. He gets to the politics of it specifically. What speech, what kinds of speech will and won't be allowed? Meta has made some decisions that I disagree with, that other people disagree with that. Many people agree with disagree with on the other side of the coin and really what people are reacting to, what almost everyone is always reacting to is those decisions on the margin. And so the position of mastodon is a collection of people. Is we wish to be so tolerant that some people are banned? She's really you come back here and to don Trot junior is not welcome. Here is like very tolerant position in its own weird twisted way. Ok,

like meta, is going to make a very different kind of determination and that's the content. Moderation that they're talking about yeah like that That's where I am always the most interested in the fate is lots of different service can make lots of different decisions and you're not tied to them forever right. You can go somewhere else. You can follow people indifference. Errors are different rules, ye market such may ever exist is actually making those speech determinations and not the government or one guy one guy he's delegated to a bunch of lawyers that you never hear about like that, took that's worth. That's where the mistake has been. I just don't see that that's their real concern now those who were who are fighting against matter because lake, what's it like, what's the point of the federalists where every instance can determine its own content, moderation, if you don't let people to determine their own content, moderation like I get that it's a big company coming and I think that's is certainly a thing to be a fearful of, but like its stance on content moderation. Is it because lake

that's the point of the fedders they get to decide that they get to decide that for their users and all of those thirty million or whoever ten million five people that join instagram threads or whatever it being called to do. You have to contribute value to yeah right here. This is my club and you can just like take the content out of it and put it into your ab may in many ways you kind of enterprise. This weird read it situation. Yeah like my servers content, which is really What my users have contributed to. I will control the boundaries of brain I will not let ai scrape it and I will not let it interacts with the metas product. Then I think we're we're just in for Few years of the internet, re figuring out that I dynamic yeah, that's gonna, be fun I'm excited for. I mean this is like again. I think this is why the verse exists, because

covering the stories a year to start with use which is perfect and be its is much of its technical capability story, as it is a how do people behave on the internet as it is eight? What is modest product gonna be story, and I frankly challenge you to find. Another group of nerves, therefore, pay attention to. It is as much as we. We need to take a break. I need to watch this video of mark Zuckerberg and jujitsu match one more time. between the kids being home and hosting everything in our house gets used up in summer within cigar. Can save money by stocking up on all my favorite summer brands. I save time like it. Everything delivered in as fast as an hour, and I say it myself, a simple of dirty dishes by stocking up on paper plates for the annual summer, cookout save more on summer. Essentials spend more time I'm enjoying summer add. Some are two

download the apt to get free delivery on your first. Three orders offer valid for a limited time, minimum ten dollars border additional terms. I am Josh mucho host of the pitch from box media people describe the pitch as the anti shark tat. I actually agree take everything you think you know about venture capital, start ups and fund raising and throw it out because, on my show, you'll hear the true story of how these deals get done on our upcoming

These and you'll hear legendary investors like charles hudson and Elizabeth yen invest over a million dollars in start up featured on. Don't shout- and let me be clear, none of this is staged. Each episode of the pitch features real entrepreneurs pitching real investors for real money. Then we go the extra mile to tell the true story of what happens after everyone shakes hands and walks out of the real, listened to the pitch podcast to learn from the smartest investors and founders of world season. Ten starts on Wednesday august. Twenty third follow the pitch for wherever you listen to podcasts or back your stay in the social media tip for one second longer to sussex. Ok- and it's done it's paths we should. We do now there's gadgets to talk about yeah trial gonna, we do need our editor. J peters has been just owning the rabbit story top to bottom.

It's the interviewed, Steve huffman, that interview went, he went sure, did haunted car. It's fine reddit is, you know, they're staying the course they're not backing down in any which way, I would say the protests have gotten increasingly hilarious and true reddit style at one point read it said, distinctly more democratic. It be the moderators adding stiff steve, often refer to the moderators as the landed gentry of it as very funny. Moderate should holding votes. Many subjects, including, I think, are or other So ok we're only a laughing pictures of John Oliver, Our users voted on it in another. He can do and I think we're not just pictures, sexy pictures of jobs is a very important part of it. John Oliver is bitten, like ye be uploaded a Older photos for them to use, which is very good, others are at its allowed. Nazi for were content, which is very funny right. It's not like this.

All feel just various other protests. Look. You know that the female fashion advice and read it is only doing posts about seventeen hundreds fashion. Now about that It's so good, very good. Some reds have made everybody moderator into true d. Of course, it is also very good this is accomplishing anything. As always, we were still using read it. Rights are going dark is like a direct attack, read it because new user search users can access the community's ever? if the infrastructure John Oliver, what's right, going to do enjoy the engagement I dont know, though I think people on the internet have learned at this point. that just saying we're not going to use this product anymore doesn't work right where you can you can organise traffic killing, but what you can do- and one of the things I think has been very clever- is like all of these subjects

it's categorizing themselves as not safe for work, which means they don't get monetized in the same way, and so that's like there's a direct hit to what you have read. It actually cares about, which is it's money. These things with John Oliver like It's you just it would. At the same time, save half is at can trying to get more. advertisers to come on red, it is just making a joke of itself as a platform which, in a way I would actually argues a much more powerful version of protests, which is to say like. Oh, you think you actually run this platform like Hell. No, you don't. We run this platform and you can you can try and fight as all you want we're actually in charge of what happens here, and I think like to me that has actually come through like loud and clear but does it mean anything at the end of the day I know and it and all these apps are going to shut down and read. It is going to go about its business, but ITALY his it feels like you can feel like you drive so here's the thing. That's really, I think

having read, it is now imposing its power of this community. Sent an email to a bunch of moderators, the subs that had gone. it bet the email was a threat, but I don't want a beer that is not in a language or a threat, but the email was hey. If you want I get rid of the moderators who have chosen to go private or you think they're not doing the job. Let us know and we'll have to get rid of him and like That's what how? How else should you read this? four moderator that is choosing to stay dark red is emailing, my fellow moderators and the users of the sovereign rights and saying they can get rid of me. If I say the course, and it went even further. In some cases there was a there was a thing they were saying to moderators. That was essentially by getting you're submitted, dark you're, actually violating the terms, a code of conduct on read it because you're not be good dear community by not letting people use it, which is a leap, but then the threat there is that the consequence,

taking care of your community is read. It will remove you as a moderator and put somebody else in so they they've been making abundantly clear that, like play by the rules or we'll just throw you out and find somebody who will in every way they can, which is again, they wrote the rules, they are allowed to say you should play by them. But the attitude in the posture here are extreme Similarly, aggressive in you know, if you are communicating one responsibility you have is to how people feel about how you're communicating, and so, if the moderators are telling us, they feel threatened. Those those are threats like that's just how that works. If and that's life, and what's so weird about this to me as like read it's been around for eighteen years like where has this Ben like it, Must we a twitter when insane? It was because somebody bought it rate like at least at least something chain, and I think part of what has been so strange for readers is this sense that, like ok, there's a guy in church who's been on it literally since the beginning? He is a

founder of the thing, he loves this more than anybody and all of a sudden, just like on a dime just decides to totally screw over the entire community all at once, and I think, like the actions, have felt bad, but I think this, like total surprise of it. All is the worst part of a lot of it for some folks kiss for most people really did come out of. Nowhere is just like me, in the minute he was at new york times story like all of a sudden. It's just like oh steve, huffman wants to make money, and then everyone is it's like oh shit, yeah and his fury While I am killing the app, I mean, that's the real thing like the raw, that's the precipitating factor, but this we are in control of reddit is new. So here's the thing I wanted to spring up. We have been reporting on this later I J peters. Aren't he owns a story? He's the one who interviewed huffman lots of mods are talking to him. Lots of other people are talking to him, good journalists. We go to read it for common and all these stories,

Reddit is very unhappy that people are talking to us. They have decided that their official position is that they will wait for us to make mistakes and then issue corrections in order to discredit our journalism. That's straight up what they're doing I know this is what they're doing, because we have a statement because they talk because they told us that it could attain rostrum. It runs coms, it run. It says there blanket statement. Is, will no longer comment on hearsay, unsubstantiated claims or basis accusations from diverge, we'll be in touch his corrections. needed. Ah, my guy, I'm fine. This came a long time. What,

wait for you to make a mistake. So then we can correct you and say your reporting was wrong. Is the oldest trick in the book and we're just not going to fall for it? So we're just going to print this statement and every story from here on out. Like that's the way it's going to go and if they want us to get it right, they can. They can tell us what is actually happening, but I will come back to we're going to take the people on the ground, we're going to take the users or anything the moderators were intake the employees every time and if you think, they're wrong, you can tell us- and you can explain why they're wrong, but we're not going to stop because you've you're running like in the nineteen twenties press playbook, like whatever, like amd, we're just going to burn you every time and that it's that attitude. It's this aggressive posture where people are worried and they're coming to reporters and say here are our worries: here's the communication we have received that Since we feel threatened and read its responses, shut up, yeah, that's will breaks or community am I that story is easy to tell we don't actually need help to do. I am I that I think there

misjudging oliver, because when instagram decides to wash its lenny cloth and start there drama. People will just go when google decides crap, we need something like read it exist, for search to be good? Here's a reddit clone that will kill in five years. People will go use it and the danger here is this posture. I don't care like we'll just print the line we print the poop emoji from twitter in every single store. It's really. This is what we do with this is wayside we're in print it your users are going to take a very different message from that than we are like. We will just keep doing journalism, and I I don't think that anybody quite understands that turn. I think they understand it and they

I care straight up, yeah. I think I think for them. They view this as a relatively minor problem and something that they can just brute force their way out of, and so they like they, they don't care if, if all of these things are, are going crazy right now, because they're hoping okay in a month or two it'll pass and we'll go back, and hopefully now we'll be able to sell ads, because we'll have a much more predictable community that we can more easily monetize like part of this is taming it and getting out all the people that would make it more difficult to monetize. This is like you on firing all of the staff on reddit firing all the teasers right, and so it's like okay, we're just going to get rid of all of you who makes it more difficult for us, and I would be surprised that that's a pitch that they're they're doing behind closed doors, because that's a pretty compelling one if you're an advertiser and you want to like avoid risk at all costs. Read it right now is a suit! Read it even before this was super risky right because they've said no, no, not safe for work stuff here and you would still occasion

we like oh, I didn't need to see that this morning checking read it and then get rid of a lot of those people and have a much calmer. Easier to to sell easier to control community, and I think that's the point I think that's probably the plan is that these people will tucker themselves out or the leave. I totally agree with I dont think it was the plan. I agree with every other part of that. But what seems clear to me now in retrospect. Is that read it thought it could do this relatively easily that that making these changes would cause some pain because it always causes some pain, but that it would get through a relatively quickly right and then and then christians be apollo, developer starts making on noise and a lot of people get angry and issues it's worse and worse, and then I think at some point, Steve have been and the executives it read it decide Only thing to do is just read the band off and then I suspect what it said like at any rate happened is David,

if we just decided to like put on a bunch more band aids and rip those off too that it was like ok, this is a moment we we're gonna go from rage over one thing to like just get all the rage out now like. Let's, let's have that is hard reset, with the moderators that read it has had forever. It has had to be the admins it read, it needs it read. It have had this contentious relationship. ever where the admins wish demands would run it as apply as a platform more the way to company and the mob which they got more tools run of the way that they wanted- and this is read it like absolutely, I think, right exerting its authority and saying this is the hard reset and I think at some point you just have no choice but to fight through it, like I dont, think, read it wanted it to get this bad, but I think at some point they looked at each other. In said, what's gonna be this bad anyway, like let's just go to war yeah you they can't back down at this year. This is never let a crisis gonna waste absolutely you haven't. I think you're right though they probably didn't intend this, but now they ve got it they're like ok, let's linen burning

the ground. The other way of saying that is that chaos as a ladder. You really want to find the line between the two, like one of them answered the king being dead, not the show being good, but the king beings. but it's gonna win. If the power stories you guys, ok, that's enough game of grounds. This episode avert chest break regulating come back with silenced, god, it's too around this thing for the I am you live to tell editor in chief of the virgin host a decoder podcast this autumn, I'm taking over is one of the new hosts of the code conference said CNBC Julie, abortion in case he knew from platform and hard work. you ve heard. It's all talk to major players in the world of tech in business on our shows. But code has live unfiltered journalism. You won't find anywhere else

This year we have onstage interviews with ex such twitter, ceo window, yet Moreno, microsoft's, ito, Kevin Scott and many more from a I too streaming plot, and shifts to privacy. No one knows exactly where we're headed, but code is where the world's most influential people come together to find out. Join us for the start of a new era, apply to attend the code conference now at VOX media dot, com, slash code, that is, VOX media dot com, slash code, we'll see you in september. The back, where a clear the air from other social networking talk until a little bit later, that we got it It's a little between courses, gadget palette, cleanser little little grape, when I think of amuse bouche, I think of the Google pixel tablet the light refreshing google pixel tablet. I think Dan would probably agree with you. I think he would agree that it is light

another refreshing, I didn't know we ve actually refreshed the andred tablet strategy began, reviewed the Google pixels habit this week. That's the pixel tablet. The has the dock that makes it look like a giant nest. Hub gets an android tablet. Five hundred dollar enter a tap on which we should see is- is not nothing like what one of my favorite things about. This was talking a damn through this whole process. He just kept testing the thing and, being like Google made an android tablet. That is actually like a kind of good tablet for the first time in a really long time Is that anything we just kind of really like I? We spent the whole time he wrote this review and I was editing it with him. It was like. Is this anything because it is it's a good tablet? It's a nice It has a nice screen. It has decent speakers. The dock things seems to be really clever. There's a lot of little details missing in the way the EU would expect a first generation product to be missing extra docks are too expensive. Its missing some of this sort display stuff that people might want, but it gets most of the basic

it has no big ideas about what a tablet should be, which to some extent I love about it. It's not, there's no hetty thesis about tablets being the future of anything. It's literally deliberately just a scream if you were to look at and sometimes you will look at it while you're holding it- and sometimes you will look at it while you're cooking in the kitchen and it's sitting on its stock, that's the whole story, and think thing down. I spent a long time talking about was how you think about five hundred dollars. In that context, we shall very here's what you get. I think, because I've gone back and forth a million times on whether this thing is a good deal or not, it depends on whether you think it's a tiny, portable tv or an ipad does, I think about so. I've had some very cheap. They have really good software. Ecosystems apple will update the software every year on time, without fail for like a decade, three hundred there is no system of cases. If you break in ipad strain, you can walk

did any moloch. He ask in the world and get a crappy replacing. had screen for not a lot like rag. The ipad is an ecosystem in. I will just come activists and apple updates. The software on that ipad apples gonna make ipad next year, scioto make pixel tablets next year don't make ipads disability race. If I was like we're doing to google just like, if you think it there's a competitor, the ipad, the single loses left and right for fun hours eating it? I've had air a superior product to this with documented history of actual support from the company that makes it but no doc tame cook knows they make ipads sooner, but try ever held the pixels have You know this point with Google sprawling they are narrowing down, but like it, about a matter. I've had not just on the merits. That's tough! That's a tough comparison and give us a lot of age for europe.

This is a tv. It sits in the dock josie my google photos, and sometimes I can turn off the air conditioner with this one controls for most actually, not so bad. Can you do that when an ipad there's, no there's no ipad dock for a kitchen, that's fair, right, that's that if this is a slightly bigger nest hub, that also It's to run an ecosystem of video playing apps, either the docks, the part you. You talked to David about how there's no big ideas here, but the dock feel not really a big idea. We seem lenovo another people, experiment with that, but it seems like a well executed version of a very old big idea and that's kind of exciting to me, because everybody kind of sex at these talks here and this one seems Be good yet one of my favorite things that Dan told me was that he has. He has a magic keyword for the ipad that he lit they just uses as a stand for his I've had to just docket in and out of, which is also a thing that I have done and it is the most ludicrously overpriced ipad stand. You could possibly imagine

but for all the ecosystems after there is in apple's world there actually aren't that many thing here can attach to an ipad the it has the little the little plugs on a bottom birds, connect yourself, but that hasn't really turned into any. So we have a seven june ipad through about four max. It was her first, I passion or second I've had just she's five but we still have this one liner and it basically just got too old. I bought the cheapest one when she was born and then she got her after he was like I'm so psyched like you you deserve a reasonably fast computer. So we just have in what should. Therefore it's sort of like show photos, and I know sometimes be a kitchen tv or whatever, and I went looking for a dock that uses the the smart connector on the bottom, at zero, zero there's one logitech made it was how the lodger doc they sold it hundred and dollars and they stop making. Because a charge you still got the ipad its arsenal.

Three inches thick for reasons. I never understood why it's bad. Is it like a technology thing like no it. I think the smart has claimed the smart. Connector is open and does not require licenses and like that, can't beach not seem to be the case, because otherwise belkin would have twelve there and they have zero. I think the reality is the smarter or may not be that great yeah and there's no way to test it because there's something that runs a smart connect or the at made for her. I found mafia like if anybody tells us the answer like the dead. I would say it's been ten years of me asking for the story. I've, been trying to write a story about the maid for iphone programme, the mri programme and what it's like really like for ten years is destroyed. Reporters there, catch, the human wreckage of me asking for story about the EM programme is vast, but if you want to tell us about so

apple and play is just shut up outside the city ass. He was there, it is It is the most tightly like we're like we're. Gonna do harp, got an hd. Am I in like people are like yeah, we'll talk about that and it's cutthroat politics the whole episode. Yes, we were like. We wanted a whole episode of mfr, but the lightning connector and like darkness, falls etiquette. It's like omerta, it's not happening, but I think the smart connector is wrapped up into that. So that's why there's docs. Basically, the answer it. I like that plan a good idea, but I would say I very enthusiastic about the idea of a good fancy kitchen tv. I wish this thing didn't cost five hundred hours. I think if it was like three forty nine, I would have bought one already that debt those bright, it's just a smudge out of the range where I can just like, feel like it at all as the good idea right now, I haven't I've had making just carry it in and in my kitchen and that basically works. Also, there's no remote for right now, I am firmly on

when got ten remotes on the end of your arms out yeah. I know so many remote you have like you're in your kitchen. Your hands are dirty. You don't want to like dry like I went to a remote that can get our grubby in my kitchen and also then be cleaned look, don't disease people thrown a dishwasher, wash them a single without electrocuted myself. This is, point in favour of the pixel tab. because siri is garbage and busy takes us out is not our and google assistant is not garbage. Tear exciting I found you something called the slim seal five and one universal waterproof, remote control. Does it work further? Google pixel tablet? is this the stylus you used to touch the pixel tablet out? I don't like it and I will say that Google's ay I search results were thick. What are you doing, since the most useless. I,

I am not every now and again I look at what ai can actually produce. I'm like I'm, not worried, that's how you know you're going to be first against the wall. Look, that's the the thing about the tv in the kitchen as it gets. Whatever he wants is what everyone's are trying to build. It's been the pinnacle of technology since the fifties and everyone still kind of like looking at their phones, also the the fact that it's like- and rode on the back, and I dont get processors fastnesses support life, ass user, switching in a way that would make him actual andred apps in your kitchen like useful to you right, like if this thing is actually signed into. My google account it's just like sitting on the dock in the kitchen like android tablets are not swift. It switching to my wife's account number right in that there's just like that piece of it Would you need that speed in the kitchen o? Because if it is to my world, if the other people, if it's not instant, it will just never be? used right, I was I hears. I waited and waited get him to block in this room,

and then they use this huge strain. I want you to push them fairly buttons and and takes like thirty. Second now that he's my armies, my phone instantly with questions please But I would remind you again that do you know it? The ipad has in terms of multiple users, nothing the true and that's why vaccines are two of them is the fact that now I think, like this one of the things that I sincerely hope. Google stays at this because I think, there's a there's a version of this a couple of years from now. That's maybe a little cheaper and the little better and fixed some of the little things that are missing like you're talking about, and this starts to get really compelling. I have absolute zero faith that that is going to happen, but I sincerely hope we Like that, I live to see the Google pixel tablet. Three, I'm gonna send you a sign for it. That says I have. Google sticks with us and you can just like. Hang it above your desk

Gotta go right next to my rick austerlitz dart board room when there is like a twenty seven inch, android tablet that, as was to be a tv for your kitchen, lay in twenty four obtain putting tv intervention is the only during the tech industries are had they sucks so much at it. Because they have worked out you're out of your tv. That's the roma figure that out the rest of it. Ok, let's I can. We run windows and your tv in community. We live in your kitchen and everyone's, like you, ve got bad ideas. No! No! Thank you. The other gadget news, a bunch of vision, pro stuff is out this week, apple officially released the sdk to let developers start playing with it. They're going to have open developer beta zones, the airlift into them. You drop her and then they put a headset on your face near I did test your apps. You have to send in india very complicated, but really like imagining that they are going to be like planes and, like you know how the oxygen mask drops down. You're going to like sit at your seat. Efficient prose, just going to drop down from the ceiling apple has

a number of seven forty seventh annual circle, the globe, letting me old try the has at its core. this is true all right there. this action was like an impassioned play about how they journalism this I'm lying to you as equals. Gonna fly golfers company world. Where heads at seville that matches the virtuous you never know happen, but we seen some from this sdk, because people have gotten it into able, but like start building on the simulator These are matters very fine acres. All the absurd, like a fake living room would usually look at the photos and all the screenshots are like what, if you had a beautiful living room, do we know who's living room minutes and that some apple living room, the number of beautiful fake living rooms, the apple campus, is off the charts separately. I was just wondering if it's like this done. Anyone in particulars isn't annexes re lithographs, oh yeah, it's too small a little gluck arab yields. Him could easily be recycled.

cantik he's got a convert. Grad, I think he's got the and you think he's yeah he's a step down with me. Yeah alright, move units, big fire local markham condemn come down into my clarice stepped down with me. Is tim cooks, memoir title stepped out with its very amazing anyway, so he's seen the apps, the apps are pretty interesting right there I saw a version of peacock I've seen a few other apps some interesting things you discovered already is the concept of dark mode seems to make no sense in like spatial computing, yeah the merged two ways to get an app into the simulator one. You can take an ipad app and go that way or you can build it in the vision pro stk and the ipad. Apps are just floating ipad, apps I love it because here they are and the vision pro apps are like frosted glass about depth- and it's just very clear that, like that's how you should do it, I mean this is like back to when the

Ad first came out and there was a thing you could do where you would just hit the two x button do remember this: you could run it. You would just hit the two accent it will blow up to size, the ipad. You can still do that. That's how the majority of the people are running instagram on their ipads yeah, that's yeah, exactly. I think vision, prose gonna, have a long run of being just like that, where it's just can be like. We took a rectangle here's a here. It is in another place. Do you like this rectangle? well. This is always back to apples initial strategy with anything which, as you like, apps right here, some apps yep, and they did it with the mac. Remember like ipad apps now run on your mac. If where the person who runs I owe us and I've had a west. apps on your mac natively. I would love to hear from you I was so excited about this concept and I did it once with some like I do it with may air condition, out. That's good. Do really imagining how many apple engineers are implied full time so that you can control her head.

And cooling from your laptop. I suspect it's one also: you should do that in the home, as we know it doesn't work, it doesn't work with homekit, homekit or home assistant, I'm working through it. Medea call me you have to move alex the only answer- yanhamu other vision, pro news- the information as report that didn't show us everything there are fitness features which we have been talking about. It will guide users through yoga and so light crummy supernatural do a kick without. Instead, she is like me, I can you just keep doing this teaching for us right now, just do it. As also yoga wager on scrambled eggs. apparently, in what you interact with content on a station about it, we Then I'm very excited about that specifically for some reason in in this very good information report. That was the thing that

I'm out to me as like: oh, I would use that I mean if they do it well, that would be really cool. Yeah, like I often the Only way I will ever use a treadmill or a stationary bike is if I can also watch a television programme, because otherwise, god help me so I'm I'm the guy who like brings my I've to the gym and just sets up in front of me and, like watches the league for an hour, while I run the treadmill or stand on the trip and watch the league. And end the idea of having a heads up its color like the plane example right. It's this it's this various sort of specific episodic thing where I would very much like to not be here, and I can totally see why something like that would make a lot of sense on a stationary bike. I'd be very end of that year, but they're still on the bike, the part that sucks is being on the bike The problem I like resent it like, I was trying to watch ted lasso and down the stationary bike, and I was just like I can on this bike. I can be watching this on the couch

it's just right over there stupid moving a lot. Look! Here's I'm saying, do a kick. Have you thought about kicking? Why do dental care? I think we all agree that this is one of the killers, through these devices. I don't know how I feel about right being a stationary bike, withered wired, battery pack in my pocket year or mounted to the bike, somebody are hot and sweaty umbra sit in the back just kidding around everybody. Definitely not sharing that had sat with other people here growth, but you can see There is an expansive vision for this. I the fact of it that I mean Oh, they release a dominant. We see so developers could get into it. The fact that the esta k is out so quickly afterwards an appeal beginning to use it well before it actually launches. Next year. There is an amount of confidence in this device setting is fascinating, its

I still the more, I think about it. Every time I think about it. I think of that picture of the guy taking a picture of his kids wearing a headset. That's the use case, yeah they're there's a version of this where there are already assuming people are bought into where the had and and they're gonna do all things and the headset and a nice step. One thing for a headset, but you gotta tell them something amazing, as happened in that had before they put it on, which is why fitness so powerful, like fitness is the reason where it was worked, because people will put things on their body to track their health and fitness. I was going to say it's the reason. The meta headset has done. One of the reasons I just started doing supernatural again. The boxing absolutely case, my ass every single time, but like all its only ten minutes, whatever the notes wrecked at the end, the rain, I love it speaking, do a kick. There's this kicks and supernatural It literally is like hey. It's like I'm a ticket in the uk. It's great! It's perfect to that vision. Pro yeah I want sounds

They will only get a calming apple voice. It's your regret, if we want to see you do tat, I will buy a vision pro if you'd guarantee me that johnny eyes ways work, do a kick If you want me to where the where the headset should be. I think that's where fitness comes in, I think that's where this other stuff comes in, but that I think apple, like apple's entire approach. This is like they've skipped the first step of like why he won't put this on we'll see. We got a long way to go more news out of our friends in europe there they just keep passing laws over there. I love em and godless. Well, this one is tough barbara pursue super into it. The new regulation will say Phone batteries, how we easily replaceable makes sense. This is like we ve covered ever twist and turn of the phone battery story. Apple, gotten a lot of trouble, freshly ongoing its phones. Is the batteries got older.

to justify the reason. Maybe I'll tell people you're doing it a lot of trouble for that they have about a repair programming, launch all these repair programmes due to regulations around a country in the world and now our at actually aged from the beginning, you have to meet the batter, irreplaceable yeah. This is pretty implications reference resent yes and we should say it hasn't been passed. It seems very likely. It's going to the initial vote was, I think, Letty virus at five hundred and eighty seven votes in favour. Nine against and twenty abstentions, like support, strong majority, but the thing is Good thing about this is the the phrase that it uses is that portable matters have to be designed quote, in such a way that consumers can themselves easily remove and replace them, and the free easily removing replace, is in bold and can just tell this was so carefully worded so that you can't get out of it. saying: ok, we'll make it easy to go to the apple sore and replace it or a third party manasseh, It means no, a human being needs to be able to open up their phone.

remove their battery and put in a new one like that. Clearly the outcome they're looking for here- and I think that's really fascinating- couldn't apple argue that they can do that now now you can't argue that one could remove the battery from there. I love when you pull the adhesive in their very slow most satisfied. And so in the way that funds are designed and structured re are. The batteries are actually too many cases out. Like a component of the structure of the fund, don't act like all that gotta change, because now you can just like take it out. I don't think we're going to go back to plastic tab batteries that pop out when you drop the phone and you might still have to be able to unscrew the phone we'll see, I think the phone's thicker will make the runs. Thicker potentially potentially affect waterproofing, but it really just depends on like where, where, connector for the battery is. Is it outside? Is it exposed, or is it still inside the case and used to unscrew the case? I think that it comes down to,

You can remove two screws in the bottom of your phone pop up the phone swap out the battery with a weird little connector. That's pretty delicate any serious back together and then they get all the money from everybody bringing it and because they broke the delicate connector yep boom it's easily replaceable you just suck yeah. I think we're going to hear apple go to war against this like they like, didn't go to war against you spc. You know they're like oh, no, we have to use a connector. We designed who, if you dont, know apple? Basically it is on the us. We seek a matter that reopening fine there like we do want to do, but we we get it. Where are you put an ipad? This is like their ear a blow up the fund market yeah. How many many apple layers are currently in round to the eu, seven forty seven software is just going to get over there sooner or later and throughout this thing up and here's my letter on one side of this gave in our shock interview indicator.

Sir Henry gave in organ. Allow you to talk about decoder because using it as your like david animal. I did you dvd liners. I swear it. I just want to know that this is two weeks in a row that you have talked about. On the first gas and I'm outraced. What does producers are deficient? we'll talk or the waterways phrases our time, and I just did it myself, because if you have been Add supported media for a decade you are aware that vainer India is a gigantic add agency that basically invented the concept of like social. Marketing, like the brands are added again is the thing that vainer media like dragged into existence. Thank you guys with whatever it is just true, I'm not out area the inertia. The phrase, sir, this is a wendy is unable to accept any other clients like real blindly pepsi tik tok, where huge car companies.

dinner, media clouds. So this is something I should like now, because they're they're, just I work and add supported media. I'm aware of agencies I think our audience does not know this, and I completely forgot that this thing that has just like baked entered my job of like knowing but at agencies are so obviously no. They know the end. If t guy- and I forgot till I say it out loud- Yes, I think the I think it is anyone confused about how I feel about entities for how do you feel about the third time yeah reward for me. I think they're dumb. We call them scams for the whole time of nfc summer. Great. The thing I'm interested in is the end of the social web and the fact that being a content. Creator on a social platform is fundamentally tenuous and hard way to earn a living in all the big, the biggest craters in the world. They hit a point of their fame and they pivot to something more stable. Like fighting.

people I cage legitimately fighting other people in a cage, fake boxing, a more stable career than being a youtube. Her, that's weird right selling will stay with the power. Selling prime energy drinks is a more stable career. The minute you two were we weird weird outcomes left or right? You just go on the list, the demille of sisters are selling shoes. I think it's because her dad used to be a shoe guy, but like they've, pivoted to and they're like we're, going to innovate and have footwear space, and you just listen to that sentence and you're like but wires, Doing that and it's because it's a more stable business in and you see what's happening, a lot of platforms, all change and so my interest, and I want to go talk to the person who makes the platforms money. So when we talk about facebook's revenue or take tax revenue, it comes from companies. Advertising on those platforms in it

Add agency sit in the middle those transactions, so facebook makes money because at agencies like publicists or whatever spend money on facebook on behalf the big clients, their media invented a bunch of the stuff- and I just forgot to say it out loud. So I know people out of you what about this interview, and maybe I should have had him arrested on sight, maybe if you to interject but the thing that's interesting to me. As I hears the company in here person who mastered that moment in his view on where it's going. It's super interesting. If you think the moment is ending, which I do he's at cannes this week, the big added and seed thing in france and he's giving speeches on the asian, like a I we're gonna ruin our creative. When I that's the part of him, I think you don't see where he talks to his people on the additives. Side by side. I wish I'd refrain scenario David. I ve been talking about it since it came out like I forgot to say the thing I know

but not everybody thinks about ad ad agencies. As often as I do, I mean the yak gary contains multitudes, he's a he's, a complicated dude, I think, and if he's By the way I want to be like I will shape he does not make a compelling case for enough tease. He makes a compelling case for creating cool collectibles. The people want. Why does need to be digital things on the beach chain do now, but I just wanna thanks during cheaper. Is it we're sure, that's true, it's just worse is the only had overshort but the one thing I was people's illicitly upset, it's it. However, you feel that Gary it's it's really upset, but he says this one: in a union that has really set out to me. You're risky talking about kind of where to go on platforms, and he just ruthless about it. He's basically like I go attention is I have no other metrics. I want to be where people are and you essentially are basically asking about how to sort of monetize as an influence are and what, whether you should worry when goes away or just go. Really attention is and he says that would be like

Running commercials on seinfeld is not sustainable, no shit once it hasn't got the attention you have to move on like that's just it, they don't just ruthless zack. I will where people are and when people go somewhere else. I don't care. Where does I'll be there too? That's the internet debts. Internet, but it's also to me. That's why you saying like the enforcers, I making money like being the most famous tik tok. Her is not a great business. It certainly not like in term sustainable, it'll ill burn, you the hell out. We all these platforms reward scale I to James Vincent today about just a I in what is going to do tat, Webb, and what we are talking about is, if you are a youtuber and you make for perfect youtube videos a year, you're not going to make it. If you make two crappy youtube videos a day with garish youtube, thumbnails you're, probably on your way to success. One of those things is going to burn you out instantly image. Like no question. Every youtuber will tell you that, well it doug tomorrow,

My very tumors: what's he pivoting towards cars in bids, what's cars and bids and a big investment cars of bids, allowing him to do right now expand. The number of hosts on his channel he's still going to make, as many of it is his first years in sight, but like he's he's spreading out the workload to make the amount of content that youtube demands of him. That's just a weird place to be so: you'd, listen to vain or chuck's approach, he's not trying to monetize the content he's trying to put ads near attention and that's the internet like that's how all the platforms are monetized. They are ruthless, then, so I I just think there's a turn in there. It's like, if you don't know where the money's going you don't you know, can have an understanding of how the next platform shift will happen. Then I forgot to say this out loud.

Wish. I had said this on, but that's the impetus of this and you know I've every day we all will strive to be better, but that's to me it's. I really think we're at this crazy moment in the social web in talking to the people who built it involves talking to the marketers who have built it because they're the money like we they have been. You know that, what's the saying, if the thing is, if you're not paying for it, you're the product, yeah bertha they're, the ones buying product, and I there's something in there that I think is like. Are you ready for this? Is that world ready for this too I'll? Tell you one other quick story and we can run isolated, and this is the only slightly rent and training as the symbol of a gigantic financial services company and we were told the whole by light kerfuffle end. The worry is that the internet has pushed marketers towards ultra targeted advertising. That's what, in our five himself ultra target advertising. You gotta make a piece of creative to sell, bud light

find an audience with creative that, because that is precisely targeted to them, they are going to be more likely to buy bud light in the next to them. What is constantly happening is total context collapse. We're like the precisely targeted thing, becomes a cultural issue in some other way, and so just the way that people are thinking about. Even that, like the main thing you sell targeted advertising is oh boy. There's danger here that we weren't aware of because of the politics of the country yeah. What are you going to do and targeted advertising is no longer a good idea. Right, like is that a virtual story, I dunno, but it's boring. It was boring, singing just now feel like I'm just that whole thing that this whole like apple, it is of the social internet is straight under the weight and like I I I personally think I can do a better job of explaining why I'm interested in talking to the people who built it, but when they change and when that money moves. These companies are in a shift like that

to combat this way. The platforms working some change overnight. They're gonna shift combat sports evidence here with us alright, you throw it in around one: microsoft, who's, just a little baby yeah they just they're they're, so ineffectual and they're. So small and tiny they are increasing the price of xbox game pass and the xbox series x, not in the united states, been a whole bunch of other places, including the uk. So naturally, our our resident brit Tom Warren wrote all about it. The prices a little bit for the xbox theories acts and then it's but a dollar for game pass. It's kind of weird

because how they're changing the prices, so if you have never subscribed to xbox game, pass, you've got to do it before July. Sixth, to like avoid the the price hike immediately. That's where the high price hike goes in for new customers and then, if you're, a current customer, you don't have to deal with the price hike until august thirteenth when people are kind of upset they're a little bummed, but microsoft isn't telegraphing this for awhile now, and it's all happening the exact same week that they are going to court with the ftc over whether or not they can acquire activision in part, that fight is that they have to say that they sack and that they should totally be allowed to buy this company because their terrible and they saw kin and there the worst in the world, and so they said that they were lost. The council wars, which I think is a massive massive thing to drop into a legal doc. Even if it's like just to win a fight, I feel like that's gonna,

some lasting impact for accompany. You will see what happens in this trial its yet ongoing. It's like five days today was day one tom has been covering all of it. There's a really great stream. You should totally the watch. It read it cause he's just giving minute by minute updates and its wild for the most part there. They are really aggressively being that we suffer the most because it was lost. so battle yeah. I don't know this, isn't a shake out is this trial will go one way or another. There is in the uk

competition markets authority, there has already said no dice yep. It feels like microsoft should walk away it. Does it's a little perplexing that they keep going for it cause? It seems like it's not going to work in a lot of places and how does that work? Do you just stop operating in those countries when they say no, you can't acquire it here like. Do you make a ton of little splinter companies yeah, it's just messy, and but I think both sides really want this to happen. They want it to happen because they've been on a buying spree for the last few years, buying every single gaming company, so they to happen, and then activision wants it to happen because everybody hates act of july to sobbing activism, yeah other bigger three billion dollars. If the deal false part so the next year could spot to be introduced, vision either way, I would just remind everyone- I'm not saying this is the same at all, but remember what eighteen he was going to buy t mobile to remember this and the government stopped it. Surreal thing that happened in walked away or to break a fee and then became t mobile and then bought spread. Who ask us

member donation and for our industries and our down to three and this network different times twice over fishing islam? Why David? What's your leningrad minds? Very quick as the opposite forever, just it tik tok, ceo v pappas, is leading the company, which is a big deal because they are kind of the american figurehead of tiktok. a minute. It was kevin mayor who is going to be the american figurehead. That was, Where is this hester? He basically like tat one look around the room is like never mind, and so vs has been the and the the ceo have shoot. You has been more visible in recent months, but v, leaving as it is a big deal and I think he needs to be more and more evidence that tik tok is not going to get its way and be a happy company in the united states.

For very long. I cannot imagine being the like american symbol of tiktok is a particularly fun job, and so I'm not super shocked, but it is yet another bad sign if you're a person watching to see how tick. Tock fares in unites, it's so tik tok ceo should choose, and in other company saying very pompous was leaving and in the spanish don't worry. We ve, hired twenty year disney veterans, any emotion to join the company. The new role of tik tok, chief brandon communications officer, which is not the same thing not very differently.

You can it's like where's the challenge. The challenge is talking about. What tiktok is to a bunch of sanders, not operating tiktok rough yeah. We're gonna try to get all these people the conference by the way, including our steve hoffman. They can correct us in person, but I agree with you David. I think that the the signs are ominous, I would say around tiktok right now, yeah agreed the vibes are, but I don't think project texas is going to go we're about to hit a presidential campaign, and I think this is about to flare up. I dunno a pretty big way and I suspect v among other people, saw the writing on the wall and Allen one last lightning round. I want to end on a high note: okay, deep here, you can hear patrol, it's gonna live that's good and we we love that site. at the worst. They do very weird behavior from amazon trying to shut it down before selling it, for what I assume is just like nothing to gear patrol which is happy to take it in the right home for it. But

skype deep here of your great, if you are a camera nerd, it's probably already your favorite website. If you're not go and you will become a camera nerd, you will get I'll get that rico. Andy ps3! It's pretty so pretty we're gonna go and ashore cameras. That's it that's over chest. wednesday, like I said, we'll have full coverage of this microsoft trial. It has literally been going on in the background, while we're taping there's a live stream of the site. Tom has been covering it like, as it goes, we'll have lots of analysis. That's all happening. Look inside the virtual com, if you don't remember what it is you're this far in advertising as for a check on guidelines that should then also we ve gotten a number of submissions to our wearable equation, we're gonna get internet. lay em all out. He we have to do some algebra so we're going to figure out how to do algebra on this podcast. Just imagine that scene from a beautiful mind, that's going to be us next to it's great. I love those submissions. If you have them, keep it evert for chastity.

Dotcom email, us, your wearable equations emissions can find the rhythm all we'll get into actual. That's it That's my chest and that's your average cast this week. We'd love to hear from you She doesn't email adverts cast at the verge. Dotcom diverge cast a super of the verge and the box me upon the network shows produced by me. We james and our senior audio director, andrew marina, editorial director is brook mentors. That's it will see an x ray, the