Hi? I'm Alexandra DE scientists, and along with David, french icon hosting liberty, Podcast David and I break down the latest political news, with a focus on the importance of culture and religion, and american life are episodes Irving. Twice a week and can be found on Itunes. Google play stature tune in. Or our national review online should we adopt a democratic socialist healthcare system, should a free press, beef ray of criticism, and especially free people heckling it during live, shots should truly could be able to print a gun in his garage,

us right. Hansel, exhaustive analysis of Rudy Giuliani, too controversial, contain an entirely. He appearances why it really really Giuliani preemptively the bog idea that there was a second Trump tower meeting related to the first Trump Tower meeting right hand, Salaam has the answer for us today We will discuss all this and more on this week's edition of the editors Onrush Lowry and I'm joined, as always by the right. Honourable Charles see w cook the notorious Michael, Brendan Dorothy and the aforementioned F right hand So are you listening to an ash from you podcast? Today's podcast is brought you buy Nash, review institutes. Fifth annual William, Buckley Junior Prize dinner and by an hour plus acquit public service announcement, if you listen for his podcast on ass? You d: we are delighted to have you, but it would be

for you and better for us. If you made us part of your feed, a Google play sticker tune, or I tunes, and if you like what you hear here, please consider reviewing us on Itunes. If you don't like what you hear here, please forget, I said anything the Charlie, let me start with you had this study by their Mercator Centre, a free market outfit at George Mason University that sir The Bernie Sanders Medicare for all plan would cost thirty three, trillion dollars, additionally to the federal government over the course ten years and you had some liberals immediately pushing back was saying this is a coke funded out that believe anything they say, but the Urban Institute, which is in Piccadilly, centrist and twenty sixteen did at some a study that came up with a similar result. Maybe they said it'll cost to twenty eight trillion

over ten years, but the consensus seems to be that this thing would be ruinously expensive. What to make of it. Why? It should be noted that it's a consensus that based upon a number that is arrived at by accepting at face value, variables and assumptions the questionable variables and assumptions eat. I would say that preposterous variables and assumptions that Bernie Sanders himself has find it. It was odd to watch Bernie railing against this, given that this is probably the best number he's going to get and it was ought to watch it because so many of his acolytes praised it. The argument that is being made by not Bernie is that, if you look at it ass an increase in federal spending, it looks like a huge number

and indeed it does, but that, if you look at it compared to overall health spending that his government, how spending plus all of the private health spending it would represent a cut over,

and yes of two trillion dollars, and that's why you saw people like my bruening Jacobin and Kevin Drama, Mother Jones and Dylan Scott at Fox, slightly trolley, saying your coat Brother Centre finds Medicare for all would lead to a reduction health spending problem is to get there. You have to assume some fairly outlandish things. The first is that every single doctor and every single hospital in the United States would take a forty percent reduction in reimbursements. That's what the study says. That's the number that is used to arrive at the thirty two trillion dollar number. This is not something I've introduced from the outside. That is the premise here. You have to assume that first of all would be acceptable to doctors and hospitals. I think it wouldn't. You also have

to accept that, if it were, then those doctors in hospitals would be able to provide the same services that they currently do, which is an odd assumption, given that currently the dockers in hospitals use private insurance to cross subsidize the lower medicate at medical or reimbursement right. The second thing you have to assume this is more of a political problem, but of course that is our system is a hundred and fifty million ish people would be quite happy to give up overnight their private health insurance, which is again. What the study assumes would happen and also that the Incumbent Party, pushing it through, would be fine with raising tat is by ten percent of GDP and by definition, raising taxes on an awful lot of middle class

Voters. There would be no point in doing this if every one in the country were paying the same afterwards for health care ass, they were before at so you would have a bunch of people who were told. You can't have your play Insurance anymore, also, you're gonna be paying more taxes in you, a pang in premiums and an out of pocket cost. If you want to play economic games. It is entirely fine to make the argument that we ve seen invokes and I that at one level you have to admire the intellectual honesty of the author. I think it was misguided given where this is gone, but you have to admire his intellectual honesty for accepting the premise and and working his his numbers out as a result, but it should just be noted that

part of this. The economic assumptions are preposterous, and so so is the number, and so are the political predictions Righthand outsiders of any normative judgment about the merits of Medicare. For all, do you accept the soundness of distant similar studies? In terms of its fiscal cost, Charles Blair House, is a very well regarded policy, analysed and I share Charles Charlie's basic, take on this when you're, looking at the assumption that medical care provider rates would be better than the kind of go to that's what we would all default to. This is a bit three and in a widely lauded idea to very popular at the increasing on the left, the idea that we can move to a kind of single price system and all pay a rate regulation system, but the truth is that you're. Looking at the american healthcare system, it's really hard to even de contemplating some kind of free market counter fact

because government is insinuated into every piece of our health system and if you look at what we spend on public insurance programmes on a per person bases its comparable to what many other countries spend period on their health systems. No one answered that is a hot. There are massive savings to be had, but actually I think Charley was suggesting this when you're looking at our act Will health system a lot of it consists of basically massive overcapacity among providers. If you compare, to Western Europe, for example, we just have fun. Are more hospital beds. We just have far more in terms of expensive equipment, and what have you we'd have far more of it now the question is: ok. You see that as a problem, and you could see that as a problem, whether you are on the right or the left, this massive overcapacity, this under utilization of provide a resources. How do you actually get to? some kind of rationalization do you get there through administrative fee approve, by a democratic legislature that is just going to say

we are going to shut down all of these hospitals in these communities, or are you get there by saying we are going to move away from an extremely ultra politicized form of embarrassment in which you give let's say a lot more money to rural hospitals in which a certificate of need statutes. That say that you know the incumbent a special can say: specialist specialised hospitals that offer lower prices. They're not gonna, be in business. We're just gonna ban the for me. That's the reality and much of Amerika right now, if you actually say: let's rationalize how we compensate things through the like programmes and, let's address that overcapacity through petition overtime that strikes as a way more realistic way to get to a system that is more answer to consumers, that is lower costs, that is also more effective, partly because when you have you're volume, hospitals they actually deliver better higher quality care that all of these under utilised hospitals are. We have all over the country that exist as essentially jobs, programmes. The problem

it is as a political message saying, medical care for all is way more attractive than frankly. What's gonna, send you a lot of people like gobbledygook of what I just said a moment ago, like the reality that you have all of us different provider, reimbursement raids that there really driven by politics by the fact that every single congressional district in this country has a hospital and that hospital is almost always a major employer in pretty much every city in this country. You have two big employers, the big local hospital and the big local, usually public, university and have huge amounts of power. So again, I think that the problem, for folks on the right. Is they dont have a very effective message in response to this other than that yeah as Charley, was saying you would have massive tax increases. Another thing to keep in mind is that when you looking at our public insurance systems, there actually pretty generous compared to public insurance systems elsewhere in the world. If you Canada right now. The big debate Canada is over whether or not their medical,

system should cover pharmaceuticals. I mean it's fastening. It covers specialization, but it doesn't cover a massive number of medical services that are much bigger part of health expenditures. Today than had been the case before they're trying to quoting could fix that but the thing is the reason why their system has been sort of sustainable is because it actually very narrowly cabin. If you look at the Medicaid system, in contrast, it is one of most generous public insurance systems in the world in terms of the scope of coverage, because it folks, on a very narrow group of people. So basically, what I believe is that Any of the socialists are talking format about Medicare for all. They do not see it. As an end state. They see it as a a rally, the left and basically dupe aloud kind of centrist. Liberals into in their line, but what they haven't, wood burning centre said this system with oh CO pays and what have you they want? This is working class, organizing because the phenomenal, want to transcend capitalism. That's the actual That's why? Basically,

arguments substantively are pretty garbage. What what is it not about the arguing in my transcend look? I do want to speak every single person who now characterize themselves as socialist because, frankly, like I don't know it seems like hell, of Barack Obama is like White House, and they now cut himself. So I have no idea, but people who are gaheris thoughtful, serious people. They they believe it capitalism is fundamentally and exploitative system and that Medicare all is not where they want to go. They want to go to a system more like the National Health service or actually more stringent that, where its complete public ownership there's no real. We had profitability, not wrong a single pair the single owner, butts exactly exactly, but single pair is an entering wedge because Medicare, which, by the way, doesn't work that way like if you look at Medicare, huge numbers of Medicare beneficiaries are actually Medicare advantage, which are private programmes that people actually really like they have the profit motive and much else, it's really Medicare its using this as an attractive thing

that Americans like and understand as an entering wedge for a larger attack on the market economy to know this is an incremental proposal. Michael D, Europe, less libertarian than some of us, certainly than Charlie Is there any part of you that finds this proposal at all? Appealing not really in the sense that I just don't think I dont think its realists. The great some of the writers at boxer or other, say, aid, the development of a national healthcare system is up is a path dependent process where what you did in previous decades affects, what's even possible to build or construct afterward and were now on the path towards Medicare for all or like full single pair, were on a different path. I think that's basically right for other political reasons that you know all the fights no Charlie has talked about this. All the fights the Obama avoided with passing Obamacare. You would have to fight

you have to fight the insurers and how to fight catholic hospitals. You would have to fight all hospitals, on doing something like what this study proposes, which is basically the reason. The leftist hunting is because it achieves its cost savings in this. In this sort, brutal war. That would never happen in real life of basically just slashing forty percent off the care of everyone's cost of care, and it still raises taxes almost doubles taxes in the new year term. So I don't think we're there. I do think, though, that our system is becoming politically unsustainable and calls. More dramatic reform are, will continue to come. I interest I don't think the right has a has a very saleable alternative and I dont think the public is going to like the disruption that would come from,

alternative, because they hated the disruption that came with Obamacare. I never wanted to, Miss ideas out of hand, I think that there are. You know if you but single pay, if you think about it as a risk pooling problem, if you think about catastrophic single pair, I think there's but you know the idea of having some kind of revenge federal reinsurance programmes. Some cut backs up. I dont dismissed saudi ideas out ahead. What I find troubling about this debate is them it's a combination. On the one hand, of a manifest lack of sincerity on the part of some advocates. On the other hand, a tremendous ingenuousness about how the actual american hell care system works and about the role that medical providers and those who work for medical providers, including lots of working class folks, not just doctors at behind every single piece of this and how it fits together. The fact that the up front

capital investment made by positions every other, so many differ moving pieces here. I really believe that what conservatives need to do is really look at creating a level playing field in terms of reimbursement rates and what have you and allowing for specialized providers and what have you to emerge? We need to do the things, but a began as Charlie and Michael have both emphasise. There's just much of a political argument there- and I want to see the right- come up with a kind of severe political argument and to do that they must acknowledge that vulnerable people must be protected. If you do not acknowledge that vulnerable people must be protected, then you were gonna, get more and more movement. In the actually Medicare for all and all the other craziness. If you would look at the o repeal debate, if they had, start it where they ended. The debate,

then the whole debate would have gone very very differently. You created an opening to let people believe that you're gonna, let vulnerable people with pre existing additions to go, and I could tell you know: they're gonna have no recourse others. I think that those arguments were often overblown. They were misrepresented in many cases, but if you create that opening you do not say we are going to take care of the vulnerable claimants same thing with social security reform. Unless you say we are going to have a decent minimum benefit for older people who otherwise have no recourse, you're, not gonna, be able to reform the system elsewhere, you always have to protect the vulnerable claimants then go from there. If you do not do that, you are creating an opening for people who not sincerely interested in a moderate, technocratic solution that we believe in basically moving. Single owner healthier to truly what do you make of of just the politics of this and what it says about the Democratic Party that you ve had your every perspective,

presidential candidate in the Senate has a Democrat has endorsed this idea. I wrote a com this week saying Unfortunately, I believe we have to come Bernie Sanders at at this moment as one of the most successful ideological leaders generation, just in terms of changing the shifting the terms of debate and putting power Firstly, discounted ideas on agenda, and maybe this lurch left would have happened just by dint of losing the White House but he was advocating these things of fifteen. Our minimum wage and free college tuition and Medic Medicare for all when he'd, introduce them and get a handful of sponsors he's getting a straw. Plurality or, in some cases, a majority of the democratic caucus behind these ideas. I think that the outer part he gets radicalized and the Democrats are in danger

of hitting twenty twenty and choosing someone like Trump on their own side. I think that what we ve seen is roughly akin to what we saw with the tea party I dont say that entirely as an insult, because I'm already, myself, but I think that we are watching a party focus the moment on primaries rather than governing and they're not governing, so that's, ok and making promises that can't be capped and potentially opening themselves up to the backlash that comes with promises that come kept and the poor explanations that hucksters

Give as to why those promises one kept work as they didn't want it enough, because they don't fight when somebody who will fight that. The fact of the matter is that the Democratic Party is at its lowest ebb since nineteen, twenty nine it is going to recover. It is a law of political gravity in a two party system that is going to recover and it may recover fatty quickly and when it does the chances. Of it saying you know we're going to having got out of a whole that we dug ourselves with our last healthcare attempt weight to push in earnest for a system that would annoy the middle class old doctors or the House balls, the Chamber of Commerce, Catholics, and that would put the end Europe's companies, not, as was the case with Obamacare, by design on our side, but in a fight for that, lives like in ninety ninety four and we're going to

do this with our newly found newly regained political capital, I think the chance of that happening is zero. That is not going to happen So what I think you're seeing at the moment is a little bit like what you saw in two thousand and nine two thousand ten where all of the energy was against the incumbent president and his party in Congress, and there was something of an over correction and an over promising we're gonna get her the new deal. Now you not. I wish they had got rid of the new deal, but they were never going to death and the promise led to some pretty unpleasant things. So, Michael just less, they know they will end on this topic I get the tea party analogy. I think it's it's apt in terms of the met. You see in a party when it's out of power, how chaotic it feels net that in large part b, a healthy phenomenon by think a difference here is cheap

We never really came up with any substantive deliverables in terms of its agenda. It hated earmarks and wanted to do away with them. It, sir, it hated the debt, and there are some tea party Politicians who are in favour of entitlement reform, but it was more about style and affect and kind of this anti as establishment feeling rather than like three or four real substantive deliverables that I think any plausible, democratically, social candidates can have to sign up for sir, I think that's good for the burning of the party, because these are substantive, real bills. People are signing on to it. Bad and that there can be stuck with them. I think, and in that, they're not gonna, be it's it's that they're, not gonna, be is easy to sell, as they say. Yes, drifting, because you can almost see politically that that party allowed for kind of snark journals

from liberal journalists that kind of hurt some Republican candidates among moderates and then this dynamic. The last, where their signing actual bills is going to help. You know people running in the Senate raises in the next two cycles are house races say like look at what they voted for. They voted for something which can increase your taxes by this that much so yeah. I think I think, there's the potential for damage there. I do think I'd think Charlie's right and it's gonna be hard to do health care again, but then again, what else would they? What else would a national democratic majority do? Rich cannot accept healthcare, push back on on one thing: he said that the that thus the teapot he was Vega

that this is a platform I dont see Medicare for all Ellis, thus far ass being specific at all and Bernie Sanders hasn't costed out attacks increase here, costed out anything else. He hasn't worked out what this would look like. Nobody has, there is no bill, there's nothing that this is a vague suggestion much in the same way ass. It was a vague suggestion from tat, crews and co, we're going to cut government spending and balance the budget, but no one ever introduced. Maybe Paul Ryan got ten percent the way no one ever introduced a bill to actually do that so I see as being very similar, actually not noticed. This is great

These are all ways to harvest emails for email lists and to hit people up for small dollar. Five hundred using money think that's the kind of very cynical interpretation. My darker interpretation is that Steve Ban and has a vision of politics, and I think many of the democratic socialists have a shared vision of politics, which is you, creed, wedge issues and you bring us to the think of some kind of politics as war. So ok, first Medicare for all when it please on realistic when it proves impracticable, when you have a democratic majority that doesn't actually deliver these lofty promises along the lines Charlie as described a moment ago, You know, then what happens as you say. Well, the promised the? U S Senate the problem is the way Congress. The problem is actually are basic foundational institutions, so you actually just build more and more rage, and this is something that people have accused the right of not always unjustly, and I think that it's just a rare, before a new politics of negation and if you believe

that the long game is class warfare- and I dont say the derisively. No, I'm actually talking about ideas that are in circulation. If you believe that's the game, this is a way to raise the temperature. It's the very impossibility of the goal at the fact that it is so far out of reach that makes it so inciting and actually so effective as a means to kind of mobilise and anger people Michael execution to you right now. Bernie Sanders is the leader of the Democratic Party, yes or no, and that's a good thing or a bad thing from from their perspective, for their interest. No he's not yet the leader he's the leader of a faction- and I think, Clinton still leads a faction effectively. Four Hansel on Bernie is leader good thing about things I believe we'd be better off if he were the leader, because he is a guy who's, a survivor he's wily. He is more strategic. I think he's been out, flanked by other people to his left. I think the leader, I think, I'll love what MIKE I said, it is a kind of clinic

I'd faction that is desperate to prove its socialist bone. A few days, which is actually more dangerous than a breeze enters, will ensure that leading her following. Now that the so it hearted limit. I basically, think that the fault, the followers have become the leaders effectively. So I think that certainly moved the ball. He has actually changed things, but basically, at all people who are younger than him or people who are older than a more desperate to prove themselves. I think it's a kind of crazy cast it so I will annoyingly say I it's burning, not the leader, Charlie bring the leader yes or no good thing about thing. I think it's difficult to tell another way of putting the Clinton Bernie cried, were driving rich crazy about it. So if you listen to the pot, save America Podcast, it's it's notable for one main thing, and that is that its hosts and architects are extremely envious of the chapel trap, house, podcast and so try

do you like them by swearing every too many lead, and what is that for the uninitiated? Chapel trap. Housebreakers is much much more left wing group of people who are more. In line with Bernie in and they call themselves democratic, socialist and the pot save America. Podcast is full of former Obama stuff is an Clinton hacks still haven't, got over having lost the election, who are envious, because chopper TRAP house pockets is much funnier and more inventive and more earnest and they are just in Thailand dine, and so they spend their time. Swearing. Radio could lead to try and be chapter trappers and also appropriating some of the positions that the chopper trap house. People have taken the reason I say I don't know, is I dont believe them? I don't believe that the positive people are anything like the chopper drop house. People am. I dont believe that if they were put back in power that they would behave like that as a thoroughly unless there was an awfully considerable

send him to do so, and I am not convinced either that the Clinton people already with Bernie. I think that bed just trying to fit in with the cook had so We will see whether centre of gravity goes. I do think the fight and twenty twenty is gonna, be extreme. The entertaining. I'm gonna, also even more annoyingly knew ass. My own question a little bit China Sayd Bernie is the leader of the party at the moment when it comes to domestic pets, I'll see he's not the leader when it comes to identity, politics and that's always been done, side of Bernie, you just can't be it a seventy four year old son six year old mail from the widest state in the union, whose always been obsessed class based politics and in get in tune with the identity. Pals I do think he's he's having something of a moment. The democratic party does me he's going to be the nominee in the problem he has, as it Hillary Clinton a perfect foil and last time, because it is so easy to seem freshened sincere, her Whittier Honey gets Hillary Clinton.

Can have all these these people who were younger than him or at any internal politics. But a few days, picking his substantive ideas and then say we can put it in a more polished package. Rich, I just want to say, One thing that readers might find interesting, Jake Sullivan, who has been Hillary Clinton right hand, man for a very long time. He is considered one of the brightest most connected democratic operatives and thinkers wrote. Peace for Democracy Journal called new old Democrats. That is absolutely fascinating. It is essentially the terms of surrender of the Clinton wing of the democratic and really reinforces what Rich said a moment ago. So you should check it out if you want to get a sense of where things are headed and where the people or the most connected establishment. Democrats are headed, and ensures whether it's a good thing, a bad thing for them. I think it's a survivable thing, but

worst thing. Is that no one that will never occur to anyone to moderate on a few, a cultural issues that would make this lurch left on economics? Go down a little more easily. So before we move on to the next topic, let me tell you a little bit about our sponsor this week, the national view. Institute the National Institute, invite you to join its whole committee as a sponsor fifth annual, William of Buckley Junior Prize dinner, hosted in Chicago on October, eighteenth honouring a folder, and Karen Buchwald right at forerunner, of course, is a long time. Leader of the Heritage Foundation and Karen right as an extremely and generous support, of conservative causes the MRI as heavies dinners form years now, and they kind of swings swings them around the country. We ve done a New York a couple times. We Dallas we done sample.

This girl, I think the New York dinner last year, known or forget, because it honoured a Tom Wolf who intrepidity stood on stage with an enormous wolf head Cain and dead and gave gave a speech and that, first, dinner actually honoured the two great Charles crowd hammer to these always very memorable events there, where well done. You'll see a lot of people that that you, enjoy rubbing elbows, with really urge you didn't to check this out and to come and to be a supporter against Chicago on October, eighteenth, for more information and to join, please busy visit and are institute dot, Org W S be prize. Twenty eighteen and our answer to dot Org Slash W Sd prize twenty eighteen. We hope to see you this fall or I try

Let me begin because we had a gun topic coming up next year and that we got it to prepare ourselves for the for the oration but three printing there this judge. You issued a absurd. Lying blocking the spread of information about how to to print a gun. In your home. What did you make of it This is a freak out over nothing come onto the additional questions in a moment. It's a freak out. Nothing the pole visions standing up for and eighteen are making fools of themselves in the press, as usual is unable to translate their nonsense into legible, explain as it is already

legal and has been legal since before the republic was founded to build a firearm at home for your own use. This is not new the files in question the sea, eighty files that can be used to printed rudimentary proof of concept. Firearm that I wouldn't is at this stage, is dangerous, have been online, for he is easily searchable right now, and will always be so. That's the nature of the internet and have not been taken down by the Department of Justice or by this court ruling the technology in question has been around for years and will only flourish, and it is already illegal to manufacture or to possess,

arms that are untraceable undetectable in airports, pretty much. Every single warning that we have heard is based on fluff and nonsense and more to the point, there is nothing that the government can do. Legally about people sharing, gun design, and over the internet. This was actually a very narrow question: what happened was this a while ago, a guy who calls himself at crypto, anarchist or technocratic school Cody Wilson set up a community which shed gun blueprints some of those gum blueprints with digital? In other words, you could download them and if you had a three day printer, you could use those files to tell the printer to print gun parts. The governor

and under Obama said well, yes, you are allowed to do that within the United States that it is not an under dispute. The fifth suckers affirm that as well. The governor under Obama, they said, but we think this is international trafficking in arms, because those files, the internet being the internet, are available. Worldwide. Therefore, whipping on the ITA list is preposterous: it is First, amendment violations isn't really a second amendment. Question is prior restraint, is illegal and its future and Cody Wilson, along with some attorneys and second amendment. First amendment lawyers and foundations took this to the Department of Justice under Jeff sessions and said you can't do this sessions agreed, pay them forty thousand dollars in legal costs and lifted the ban abound. That, of course, is pointless.

Because the internet cannot be regulated that way, and so a handful of states have applied for temporary restraining order is under the direction of governance, in the skies falling in some sentences like at one of the steepest people in politics. And now that restraining order was granted by one of the many many many judges that they they took it to it won't last very long. It's a test a restraining order, its temporary by definition- and this is a clear first amendment violation and besides the notion that stopping Coty Wilson from pointing to wear these files hours in some way going to prevent irreparable harm

this is absolutely preposterous. Given the fact that there already over the internet, you can find them by looking at twitter for for two minutes and church Charlie. What kind of gun do make what you don't really say that that, at the moment that the gun in question is more proof of concept? It's it's a plastic, mostly plastic, very odd. Looking the clock, I hope, ending unit that can fire one round, and then you can't you ever use it again and frankly I mean I think, Cody wasn't it is towns it, but I would not fire risk as it's not especially safe now that the theory, of course, is it down the line. This will get better and better and better better ass, a technology, and then people will be up to three. Print their own weapons, but even then, as is a couple of problems with the freak out. First one is it

it illegal to make weapons at home. I mean if we are worried about three print is incomplete. If then, we should be worried about milling equipment and lathes, which is what most gun manufactures use. Secondly,. It's more expensive in America and a country with four hundred million got to go down this road than it is just a bygone at a pawn shop all on on on the black market. And thirdly, even if you eventually can print pretty much all of the parts per se- and I are fifteen you're still going to need metal it to make the gun reliable to make it work so that the ghost gun theory will fall apart. What I think this is about, why I think you have progressives my optically, arguing that the president, they believe is a fascist, should be able to engage in prior restraint that they have hitherto. But if this unconstitutional, I think the reason that you have progressives

arguing that effectively that the Commerce course Clovis covers all economic activity except the internet where states can get involved in and ban information. I think it's because their realizing the don't know much about guns. In the first place. This is mostly used to them. They are realising the gun. Control in the long run is going to be very difficult to achieve. I do something over time. This is going to be become cheaper and more effective but at the moment they are standing in the water commanding the tied to stay where it is, and the fact that a judge signed onto this silliness is beyond parity surrounding, if anything disturbing about being able to prototype gunning. Humph Charlie's analysis is cogent, as ever I as one of their kind of roaming

ignoramus, you know, do find the prospect of where this technology might go yet or two hands to be somewhat worrisome. However, I we knowledge that in a free society, given that censorship is certainly frowned upon and for good reason, I'm much how one contains The further development of these technologies to the point where it might fall into the hands of bad actors, but, of course you know, the nature of our system is that in a one must be reactive. It reminds me of our conversation some weeks ago about Sentinel and extraordinary, spread a sentinel, partly driven by you know now, by imports of Chinese. Sentinel legal chinese sentinel. But of course, if we were to shut down all trade with China, then You would have sources closer to home, Tyler

I recently had a wonderful short column, who is actually quite dark. It was projecting what it would look like The american empire were to end, and his argument was that, whereas people now talk a lot about this in the context of the twilight american alliances or the eclipse of american economic power by China. He said well know it's not really be that it's gonna be more of a slide into mediocrity, plus an explosion of new synthetic drugs. New narcotics, that it will be trivially easy for people to produce able b, large numbers of people, including younger people, who don't find meaning in their lives as we depart from that. I dont want to put words entitled Mouth, but the certainly thought came to my mind as we depart from tional families and communities that are a kind of nourishing for ordinary human beings. Drugs are. We have right now forget its. When we talk about three guns, I mean you know, that's obviously very pointedly alarming, but it's more just the core

cobia things that will be available to us. The things that bio Curse will be able to create. This all sounds like the stuff of science fiction, but I think that it's not far out of reach, if you think that you know rise cannabis consumption among minors and California right now, if you think about things like video game addiction, things that seem totally trivial, but these are real thing they are rising and when you couple them with kind of larger kinds of social discontent, and if you look at the way that veracity works on the internet, if you think about the school shooting phenomenon and the way that Charlie's about this so articulately so intelligently. If you look at this as a kind of Sir he'll contagion than empowered by all of these other distributed technologies, technologies that could be increased, Lee empowering, but that could also help make viral ideas incredibly poisonous and noxious and destructive. So sickly? In short? That is why I mace conservative internationalist guys

because earlier infer a rough ride, your conservative in a traditional sorry are you disturbed by three, Actually, I'm not a a sceptic come on technology and its potential uses than Ryan is at least four guns, specifically right that this gun doesn't fire. It's it's expensive to make. You know if someone wants to cause trouble with a gun. This is not the way about it yet- and it seems like we're a long way off more worried about you know rating system that would allow you know home chemist, easily creed bombs or something indiscriminate or in a biological. And then I am about three printed guns. I think it's just like us in a kind of fantasy thing and a bit of a moral panic right now. Yes, as us Go to the exit question Charlie to you. First, three printing will be.

The revolution in freedom, we ve all been waiting for a threat to order Erika or official. I think you will be visible in a man. Care, because this four hundred million guns and a gun culture in the first amendment, I think it a sorry I mean in general, while not just go everything general. I dont think. Gunnar revolutionise our lives. I think it's gonna moderately improve them, especially if you want something they spoke in our part. Or a stand on a piece of furniture, but that you don't have and that you don't want to spend thirty eight dollars getting from the manufacturer, I think being able to download quota Gideon, widgets and then print them out is gonna change our lives. I too, I dont think in either the doomsday

Mary. You hear from the attorney General Massachusetts that, oh, my goodness me tomorrow, somebody will print out a tank and take over the legislature is anywhere near going to happen, and I am also adapting it makes any difference in a country such as this Ryan Revolution threat order. I think I think it will be both. I think it has the potential be hugely beneficial, the domain where I find it especially promising- and this building on Charlie's common a moment ago, is in prototyping. If you look at me factoring and if you look at the deterioration of the american Manufacturing base, are armed innovation. Industrial base, part of it, is driven by the fact that it is just a lot easier, when you haven't density of suppliers to rapidly prototype a product in an area where you have that kind of a building expertise, and right now we have allowed that to decay overtime, whereas if you look at the Pro River Delta and China, this is an error Aware, even if it's not about

being cheaper, because gonna wages are rising there, it doesn't have to be cheaper. It actually so much better and easier to prototype things to reiterate on products. To really is so: it's actually for hardware innovation, would Silicon Valley has been for software innovation? That's incredible! Now it is poor simple that something like three printing could help level the playing field. That would be here Jonathan get in other areas to examine the barriers to utter significant, but I think that it can really distributing decentralize alot of economic production. It might even be able to enable new forms of home production units further down the line, which would be very exciting, so might have us prefabricated, Homelight item why I'm of ceramics zest reversal of I'm upset the seven. I do think that, if you're looking at it on a kind of forty fifty sixty year time HORIZON and again if you're someone who is a friendly to try listen as I am if you're thinking about Penal Bennett, option things like this. How do you actually make these things real? How do you allow people to have a really high quality of life while living outside these ultra productive densely poppy

it urban areas, and what have you mean it things like treaty technologies are three printing technologies? Are gonna, be the enablers Michael revolution threat order fizzle its official, except if there's you know like it said I I more afraid of combining something where you could manufacturer Lee more indiscriminate, powerful weapons like grenade. AIDS, or something like that, and then you could find a way to cut. I'll go rhythmic Lee order around evolution in anonymize, violent actors to and coordinate them in a way that on traditional and hard to police, but that just seems like fantastical sized left me now. I think its official ya think it's fizzle. Interpretive come individual households uses by Take Ryan's point about how useful it'll be in manufacturing earlier.

Services such as that. So before I move on, I wanna tell folks a little bit about our sponsor, which is an hour plus a new premium service, on NASH, review dot com. If you sign up for an hour plus you get all sorts of benefits, including more content, you get digital access to the you print magazine and archives and full access to and are podcast, cause. If you want to go back and see what right hand was saying about the Russia scandal and the more investigation a year ago, you can do it if your and our plus member you get a reduced. Add experience up to ninety percent fewer adds across the website. We all know we got it or in a business here, so we have to run as we know, there are annoying to people they're, not why they com and they can be highly inconvenient and

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a joint and live conversations with an hour writers, editors and- and yes, that means that you might be able to have a conversation with Charlie Cook. You also get more early access and discounts to select a vat. So this is a great programme with soft launched it at the inception when we launched the the redesign, but it's really beginning to go in John now, so we urge you to be part of it. Join now at NASH, review, dot com, slash plus as national. You d come slash, plus NASH, review, dot com, slash plus and you can see all your options there and we have some great first year pricing for you. So please check it out. Ok, Michael other big story. This week there was a Trump rally and and temper and Jim costumes there are the press stand which kind of in the middle of the arena surrounded by people and he

doing a stand in a stand up on her before or after the the event, but there's video people, heckling ham, giving the finger Channing CNN socks. I should say four square: you're on the CNN commentator and I hate mob I hate all mobs and security is right or left. I hate it. I hate all heckling and care whether people are trying to heckled down a conservative or or a liberal or someone between- and I think it is wrong for present trump to talk about the press in terms any any. The people is always about to liquidate the coup locks and is wrong for him to imposed on us is Twitter approvingly, a video of folks shouting at a cost that now. That said, though, I thought the most interesting tweeted This was from another reporter saying: oh unites! It's great. You know you watch that when the the cameras or on everyone's shouting in making a fuss issue, cameras are off and it costs to comes.

From the the podium everyone Shake his hands, talk to him and get his autograph, so all abundant Hot air had a post on this, I think was: was the best cut instant cometary region very often the case- I love our upon it, but he just making case all power, the the show you know tromp putting on a show, the reporters are putting on the show that folks, in the crowd Are putting on it the show and assist asserted the W W e if occasion of politics what you think I love that thesis actually for explaining things, because I've noticed that you know some of them. Sammy IST republican politicians. I forget there's a guy running in Florida congressmen and he is very cute. New ad wary he's playing with his children. His like building a little wall is again build that, while there is little kid- and you know he has all these kind of joke key references to the major

You dont tag lines and set pieces of the Trump era, and I fully so savvy, because so many Republicans they are seriously support president Trump as their champion, in the political arena, and but they also true, it as an arena. They treated lightly in certain circumstances. They they treat it as a kind of reality show in which were all kind of playing a part. Playing our roles here now. I think this is potential. Very dangerous in that. Not all people that would have been shouting economic cost of people, would immediately flip the switch Enzo gimme your autograph whenever, as you know There- and I take it very seriously- one When journalists say the way to pay he's talking about us is you know the kind of thing that might in sight a crazy person, and I think we ve seen

things like this happen, where a crazy person went off and shot a republican congressmen right, and I think that was due to some of the language out their politically about the stakes in our politics right now, So I like the W w e metaphor for as a way of understanding it. I dont really love it, as are as development that it is in our politics, because I do think it's destabilizing, I think it makes people- I have a looser grip on reality and a kind of plausible liability about what they're really doing. That is dangerous. I have even mentally destabilizing it's kind of a virtual politics, sir. I had dangers to consider this trend I think it's really dismaying. I think it's unfortunate, but I mean I broadly Ruth you guys it's part of the theatre of our politics right now. I was thinking about this a little recently there was some report, and I can't remember exactly where it came from, but I was talking about the

number of segments on Edison BC. I believe it was devoted to stormy Daniels versus the number segments devoted to the wall or in Yemen. There has been a roiling conversation about many folks on the left, about the reasons the heatwave, or rather the heat waves we ve seen. Scores of citys around the world, not just the United States, and about the fact that while there has been a fair bit of coverage, this heatwave in? U S news, there hasn't we been much of a conversation about its connected to climate change and- and this has been discussed in the context of a recent Chris Haze Tweet, in which he is someone who is very passionate about climate change. Her cares about very deeply said law you know. We ve just found that it's just ratings poison, and I found that Very revealing and people been very hard on haze for having said that, but in a way look haze was just trying to talk about the realities of the business so that put me in mind of

Why do we hear the stories we do here? Why does cable news. Have the fixations that it has won narrative? Is that it's because there are no bunch of left liberals who have their own etiquette of ideological beliefs at their aiming to push onto their audience? Another, however, is that it's a complicated, organic thing, in which television, journalists and and other journalists to present company accepted but are deeply interested in journalists. The press age of journalists how journalists are treated and what have you and you know, of course, in a free society. Protecting the freedom of the press is, of course, enormously important, but there is either this I've encountered myself in some of these conversations this sense that will gosh? Do you know you can't question the afore Journalists there's a pull some weeks ago about how Republicans are a kind of fairyland I urge a majority Republican said no believe that the news media deliberately slants the news,

isn't always honest, etc, and your people just reacted a gas. To this I mean how dare you say this is so horribly dangers. Thought himself. Well. First of all, this question was asked sue expansively so broadly that I'm a hundred percent sure it's true. I got some This is true, and of course sometimes that is very earnest, sometimes that's about what creates drama and excitement to Michael's point a moment ago and, as you know, it We see this sinister exactly, but the fact that you would have a kind of at times demagogic politician can arise in response to this seeming, stultifying consensus and self regard it seems over. Herman and in the eye and other market democracies, you see that critique. Coming from the left, you know here you see coming from the right, but it just seems really baked in its part of the declining worthy of all institutions at once took their authority for granted because of scarcity of source of news and information, and that the scarcity has been underlined as us think about this. Just the other day, I was rightness com about Bernie Sanders unit. We have

up, on the one hand, clearly leader, the Republicans in Bernie, arguably the leader of the democratic list. For the moment at least that's interesting, you now, can you imagine if our politics, where it JEB Bush versus Hilary Clinton. And just you know you you were to use the word stultify hacking just how massively stultifying boring that would be, but Charlie on this press question made. Are you by the date these demonstrations see Trump rallies against report and to what do you make of how just there a lot of people, better who immediately when thing like this happens, you know a white woman. It is in giving the finger to Jim accosted they immediately go to. This is, so the rise of Hitler ISM anymore? I'm not dismayed at all. I hate everyone I hate drum, I hate most. People are that rally probably, and I hate the press- and I don't like Jim Acosta Ethel

closer, I'm also paid by CNN cause. I do a show and H Helen with, as he CUP I said this on- that show that I am perhaps this is partly my british background, where this is more normal, but I think the press is full of preening self. Regarding media, It is, I think, that the costs themselves as heroes, Katy Ter, thinks that fire fighters doesn't seem to know anything every time the press is criticized. Foot huge and consequential mistakes. Brian stealth goes on television and says labour understanding

it will work so hard. So hard, you can criticise images, work so hard all the time. Linares never never want to set any one to substitute nonsense and they routinely and I think, destructively conflate attacking the press which are not trumped us and attacking the free press. Those are not the same things if you say I think cable news is garbage that is attacking. Criticising the press- l cable news- if you say I think, cable news should be taken off the air. I think the people on cable news should be arrested. I think they should be fined. I think the government should have control over what they say that is attacking the free press. When Donald Trump does this- and I don't like him either when he does this he's using his equal first amendment rights. I also think- and I think this is- a point that has to be made that the press loves him, they love it. They ve loved him right from the beginning. He's ratings gold. They love the excitement, they love the drama,

they enjoy costing themselves as soldiers, storming the Norman debate. I don't want to hear these these companies from them, given that they brought this on cells, but I also don't want to hear them from people who are just as guilty of the things they accuse. Trump over and over and over again, we hear institutions into patients, the sanctity of our institutions, he's damaging the sanctity of our institution. What because he sees criticising the New York Times. This is a group of people who generally Post citizens united, in other words, oppose the first amendment for people who don't work in the media. These are people who are quite happy to argue that the economic system is rigged. These are people who are quite happy to pick up to grasp of the Supreme Court majority. When a case goes away, they don't like and say: look it's all catholic men. These are people who are quite happy to pretend

normal behaviour by republican President's Congresses, o governors- It is in some way ushering in Hitler that is just as destructive to institutional on. I just I do not want to hear they never get it right. They never strike the right balance and if, if at the margins, people want to shouted Jimmy faster, so be it in the same way. If the margins people want to me- really really get me Charlie. I just want one thing that I think we ought to address. That I certainly am concerned about an end and truthfully, I'm not an expert on this. But one of the story lines to have come out of the recent rally is that number of attendees number of people who are devoted supporters, the president, by all accounts. I who believe even the so called Q conspiracy- and this is One thing in some of the folks were the kind of lustiest attendees were wearing teacher,

Sir Associated with their q, there were signs related to the kind of q and on conspiracy, and you know this is Lee built on the idea that there is some elaborate elite media conspiracy. Now there are the objections that we have to the media that I think is target of entirely reasonable. That kind of group thank and what have you, I think that that's entirely reasonable, but I do worry, and- and this goes back to our conversation for about the internet and viral eighty, and what have you and just about what happens when the authority of institutions is undermined? I do think that there are a lot of people many of whom, I am sure, are just a kind of a decent, well meaning family people who, partly because of the collapse and true asked in traditional media organisations a well deserved collapse, entrust it to some extent, but then have kind of taken that for There are two embracing pizza, Gade and can, and what have you and there are people, their profiteers who benefit from the propagation of these ideas? And you know this is a fringe phenomenon, but it is

thing that when you see it at a rally, you can see why people become alarmed, so I dont want us to neglect the fact that There are certain attitudes in the wider public that are better. Are that flow in part from this scepticism or to media that I think are higher. I think I got is genuinely, whereas the chronology of the other way round. What is whether the trouble is its feeding on rather than creating the most popular people. I certainly my claiming the trumpets creating a Charlie. What I'm saying is that this deep scepter as on towards the media. Also allows certain other ideas to flourish it in a way that allowing I've just less than seven years, not convinced by that- I certainly think is less and solitary those people are crazy. Is a horrible conspiracy. Theory ass. I said I would just like almost everyone in the regions, especially the people who were peddling map, but this is a big rob strong box is free country with a very strong estimate, and it is always had people who believe in

thanks long long long before the internet. I see no evidence that has increased. This magazine had to deal with the birches in the nineteen fifty's This is this is how american politics goes in. The nineteenth century people believed in saying things about Thomas Jefferson. They believed insane things about John Adams. They had is obvious people who are different than they were people whose different religions, people from different countries. This is always farce, and I do not say that that than that if you don't believe that the internet enable certain kinds of iraqi you know that contributes to, for example, the spread of school shootings. Now you not, as a variety of other phenomena, circumstances believe that, but I also believe in that's why I don't think we can say that's why don't we notice that? I think it also kids some of it. I think that in some circumstances it can be negative and I was sitting in other circumstances. It can be positive in that. If you go back before the internet, you had very little means by which to stop gossip spreading by other

There was no way to reach some people who believe things that they have been told that local hole or or at a picnic suggesting that there's a place where a happy medium. I dont think that our views are at odds, but apparently there are injured. People do this and that it does not keep me up at night and, I think, is in some ways he deserved in the same way as when people Pang Donald Trump Effigy or set puppet. Of him on fire. Then I'm fine. Without too I do see no reason whatsoever to privileged people in the press and set them aside from being lambasted and criticise. What do you think that that's what I'm suggest early? How not to take this up to take this up in the next podcast clear, the S question right, Do you Michael Bren Dorothy, who benefit most from the contention between Donald J Trump and oppress, Donald J Tromp, where the press Donald reach from because otherwise I mean

my checks, clear from the lizard pedophiles, IRAN, the Central Bank's S magazine, and so I dont know. If you want to call that a conspiracy, I don't know, good God Ryan, who benefits most Donald Trump Charlie. Both symbiotic relationship. They need each other, they love each other and they want us to go on for as long as possible it's really hard answer to that is such symbiotic relationship. I said Tippit to tromp just cause, I think he's the more important figure he's presently. I states- and this is a key part of this political appeal that gives so much running room with Republicans because they use all the right enemies and the foremost enemy has. Is the press, nice enemy of the people? by a half of an additive enemy of her as a wise editor in chief of national of you said, the media has essentially become the Soviet Union for a public funds. It's the unifying, so Michael has had some other things, work with them,

we go you are taken with Jose, rests pitching in this epoch, Metz blow out where they lost twenty five four was at the score to the yeah yeah yeah. So basically was just after the deadline. There was talk of trading, Bryce Harbour away from the nationals, their big star in the Mets didn't make any significant moves, as far as in training, their star pitchers to start to rebuild, and then they just get out early. Laughed and the game it surprising was generating a ton of attention on social media. The nationals batted around in the first inning, and then Suddenly the Mets call in Jose re as their shortstop, who came up with them left the team a few years and came back, it's kind of been under a cloud of smoke dawn because of a domestic violence incident, it's always been one of my favorite players as far as the way he plays in the field, and it was kind of a joy to watch him page and throw forty

miles an hour terminate emanating innings aithra. He threw one anybody through almost fifty pitches in it or something I am addressing you. He gave up fire which was, of course towards the Andrea, but it was fewer runs than the starting pitcher Stephen mats gave up and he got more out when he did it, so it was, it was, but it was just glorious. It's like this is even when based I was really bad can find a new way to be entertaining and that something that the NFL doesn't have Ryan. I hear your incredibly adept at monopoly deal a hardly adept per head, my can. I were just hang out with some other friends recently and we have the perfect kind of her which is we just you know with it. It was a group of like figures, eight friends, altogether and we were to hang around the friends home and we just busted out this really fun card game. That's base very loosely on monopoly. You can play the game in fifteen minutes. It was while

fun. I then immediately went out and bought the game and then my weapon. I pleaded because you can play a two to five players. It again, it the hand takes like fifteen minutes. It is less than ten hours. Do yourself a favor, get this game play with your kids play with your friends. It is a tough, the child has annoying you Lee. You are already more american than the rest of us you're at an alligator farm. Recently I was I out of great respect for Michael Brendan. Dirty did not bring up. The Mets is my light item and then he went and did himself this. It's amazing yes it's in Augustine. They have an alligator found, has been there for about a hundred years and its quite impressive. You walk over these. These bridges and the alligators are all below you, this hundreds and hundreds of

Some of them are in smaller exhibits, but in the middle of the park there is swamp. Essentially, that's absolutely Philip allocated and their staff. There are pretty clear: don't put your kids on your shoulders, make sure that that no point lifted up onto the fence? Don't let them sit on the fence? keep an eye on them at all times. These are terrifying, terrifying creatures, and I think the thing that realise when you watch them for a little while is their essentially dinosaurs. You haven't changed in that make up for Two hundred million years brought up. You can you say reason with them, but you can't change them when we vote and videos lie and love to see a try to reason with it. Now I get aggregate. This is why the exponential review, if you we ve all seen those videos lions being tamed lines being friendly lines.

Rolling over with that train em. What we ve seen: videos of of killer whales and shocks being tamed reason, videos of tigers and elephants apes and so forth, but these animals are what they are and no sooner alligator farm can do anything about that and it was just a sort of jarring real zation that if in kid dropped in that, that would be that these are machines, to do one thing and an, although I'm someone is Seen a lot of animals that that is quite terrifying, suddenly makes you realized. My goodness me It will result in a world that has fallen far short of terrorists. So, I want to mention. I saw a mission impossible fall out for them.

The reasons are not an action movies, I'm not a mission impossible. I might have seen the first one was ninety nice exercise. This is the sixth instalment, but it was incredibly good at just you. My problem is actually the joys descends in these fight scenes are utterly uninteresting and utterly distinguishable from any other fight, seeing you ve seen a hundred times, but they that they'd man, to do some new and assuring fight scenes. There wasn't that much fighting there was one chasing and there is it a helicopter chase at the end. That was just really just completely awesome every. Bit of it, I had you on the edge your seat, Strangely memorable loss, I recommend to anyone. Is not already a mission impossible fan to check this one out, it's great desperate to watch very surprised, you haven't seen a yard I normally would, but yeah guess outlined so my Stifler editors picks. What's your pic Kevin,

Jameson, wrote on the movement to resist ice but is developing in the most recent issue of mashed our view it is like everything can and does incisive straight to the point and a lot of hundred ran? What's your bet, my pig is Chris Pope's short he's pushing back against the wall. The action, the enthusiastic reaction to the Mercator report on single pair? It's a really fun pcs, always just a great, incisive writer, highly recommended traveller with your pic on David French's frisking off the claims being made about three d printed guns. I went where has here cause we spoke about it earlier, but it is remarkable, To me that an attorney general, the Great Commonwealth of Massachusetts, would put out the eagle, Wolski written and performed video that she did with a straight face, given that almost anywhere

with a computer and an internet connection could find out that every single claim made in it was wrong that person computer and internet connection was David French, and if you want to know the truth of what happened this week in the court's, you should read it my pig is a piece in the forthcoming issue from our friend Rob Thomas and as Charlie, just to explain a few minutes ago, despite cast its big fan of alligator farms, but is even a bigger fan of tank farms going back to internal talking about experience, riding in a tank, Charlie talked about it as well Rob Tom actually runs a tank farm he's a great collector of world war. Two weaponry from the guns to the actual armoured vehicles and credible thang Talks about how he got into this and and how it works and wide mean some to him. It's a hugely entertaining red.

And will make you if you're so inclined very envious. So that's it for us. You been listening to an ash review, podcast any ribaut, retransmission or account of this game. Without the express written permission of natural you I guess you hand, is strictly prohibited, as podcast had been produced by the incomparable there are thirty who makes a sound better than we deserve. Thanks Charlie. Thank you Michael. Thank you right hand. Thank you and our plus, and thank you. An I. We are the editors and we'll see you David.