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did elements is all about finding the surprising signs angles to everyday news by absolute blood, amazing to read: that's unexpected elements from the BBC world service find it whatever you got. No bbc put costs hello, I'm the quest of iraq and welcome to the document from the bbc. Well service politics and the united states has never seen anything like it with a front runner for the next. U s presence facing a series of criminal charges, so we're taking a snapshot of what americans are making of those who want to run this so called global superpower. I believe that americans are finest. We are nuanced, we are measured and by the way, if we could get to the point where our dinner table conversations aren't dominated by politics. That's probably a good thing, because it's

think you can probably see why it might be difficult to avoid talking politics over any mail in the? U s, especially after the police, released a mug shot, a former president donald trump He appeared as a jail in georgia, the other week to be booked in for some of the tens of challenges he's currently facing. And whilst the election of the next to us, president might be more than a year away, it's an image that will continue to be discussed and has already set the tone for the rice. We'll talk more about MR trump and the republic party he wants to represent shortly, but on the other side of the political fence, of course, is Joe Biden he's too to say nothing about MR troms various legal cases and is keen to be seen as getting on with the job of president. But MR button is also eyeing the november twenty twenty four pole and has already asked the american public to give him

more time to finish the job. So what our democratic vote is thinking we brought together three of them. They are christopher web who works in the fashion industry, in LOS angeles, a foreigner riley novak, whose a college student at the american catholic university in washington d c, but first Sarah hawkins, who works on her dairy farm in northern california, worth Biden definitely see stability and a re invigorate being of our economy- and he is serious about climate change and he's just a good steady hand? I don't have to worry about what he's done every day and tromp was just pure chaos and every day I woke up- and it was like- oh my god, what has his man done to our country today? Christopher

died. Gunderson agree for me, you know, as a black man, I also see the difference between safety and danger like for me. Tromp must be defeated or I just don't feel safe. I may we see, what's going on right now, with the extremists on the right, tromp boosts them gives a marching orders. I just worry about our democracy, it's not for me. I see democracy versus demagoguery here. Having lost my house to wildfire caused by climate change, climate huge for me, and he is moving forward. The inflation reduction act is projected to reduce our emissions by forty percent below thousand five levels by twenty thirty: We need to get on this so that we have a plan we're we're not running from one climate disaster to the next and spending all of our money on climate disasters, which is what is happening right now.

Is this a case of better the devil? You know, I don't think it's a case of the devil. You now, but certainly there's been cases where perhaps Joe Biden is unpopular amongst democratic voters. I think that I still do mostly with his age and not really policy. Unfortunately, you know he'll be eighty five by the end of his second term. That's eight years past the male life expectancy. an american man seen how good of shape he's and he's like doing pilates and the republicans are making fun of him for doing in shape yeah, and I think it's clear that he's obviously active and I think the people that he has appointed you know to help him in his cabinet and otherwise are also great. But I think, obviously it's a concern in the polls. oh man, I don't think we should run away from that, but then trumps, not a young man and his way less fit than by ice years younger than baden yeah. There are like we're talking about an old man, verses, a young man, we're talking Biden for top relay the youth votes,

A critical role in delivering obama also decided to the white house an article recently. That said, it's gonna be a hearts to gen. Are you getting that? There is something to say about the freshness of a younger candidate and I think that resonates- were chancy and even millennials. To some degree, I don't think Joe Biden resonates as much with younger voters, but I think he's a great president to tune about the issues with friends and we lost friends, polluted our views, sara? I have a couple of growth, and we talk about politics all the time, but that's because we agree on the issues, but now I'm in the livestock industry- and so I deal with a lot of very conservative people- I see trump shirts note the shows, I know that I care about it so deeply that I can't be called

about talking about, like I just have two not talk about it with them, because if view wearing a trump sure you're, not persuadable anymore. You are in the cult of personality and and that's what it is. So called a person. I assure you, I mean it's a lot of the hallmarks of the cold like he gets to do all the things that account leader gets away with the sexual her ass man and not being loyal to size. And yet you ve got all these evangelicals you're like fire. He was sent by god. He lies all the time. Fine. He contradicts himself all the time and not something that is a cold. They trust him more than they trust their friends and family there not persuadable I grew up in a very conservative area, and so I am used to knowing when to hold my tongue. I haven't lost any friendships over it.

cause. I know enough to not go there with trump supporters and I'm time Tom supporters, not republicans because its prey- where, at this point, he is going to be the nominee for that party, despite not participating in debates. You really think that yeah yeah yeah, the republican party is ferdy. Now I think, there's a lot of trump supporters. I know personally that will say: there's nothing. Donald trump could do that, would guard of em to lose their support. These are people who are really blindly for lack of a better word sheep following this individual in its very unfortunate but, like you said, I've never had issues politically with losing friends over politics, because I choose my friends very wisely. I find myself ought in choosing friends, you have these deep flaws in their character or lack of critical thinking.

That I often see with super conservative people, democrat voters, wrongly novak in washington dc with Sarah hawkins and christopher web in California. Mr trump may be attracting the vast majority of global lines and even though he is facing the prospect of going on trial several times in the coming year, or so he is still seen as the favourite candidate for the opposition republicans, Mr Tromp has repeatedly denounced the prosecutions as politically motivated and an attempt to prevent him.

becoming president for a second time. There are also more than a dozen other nominees, including former vice president mike pence, the indian american biotech entrepreneur, vivek ramaswamy and Nikki haley, a former us ambassador to the united nations. My colleague James Reynolds spoke to republican voters who support the republican front runner Melanie collier is in georgia and scott brooks in texas. I was one of five newspaper publishers of america to endorse trump in two thousand and sixteen and took a beating for it and still today, I'm reminded of of that, although he won. That said- and I am a trump supporter- I I also am very fond very fond of vivek ramaswamy in believe that, if, It would have been a adult conversation more people. America would be more impressed with him as a new kind of gray with you near. The criticism is an illusion

the criticism came from the other candidates that he's a rookie, a newcomer. He makes country three statements and he's making it up as he goes along. That's gonna, be there description it no matter what happens in my view, I do think they play defence christie pants guys with vivid smarter than they are. He savvy here than they are he's more authentic than they are in my opinion, vivid is a miniature tromp without all them. I don't know what you want to call it bombast flying around. I have spoken with him. What did it on an occasion when I noticed here was that is just a magnetic personality, and that is in this, and I think that's similar to what trumps personality offers is well and vivid. He is someone who has stood out among all the rest. because he is seemingly smarter than all the rest of them. I don't think this is his time, but I do but

that he is getting his name on the national stage so that he can be a possibility. Personally, I'd like to see him hold a cabinet position in a trunk administration. Talking about donald trump he's been charged by who state prosecutor with attempting to overturn the election. It's one of four separate cases that he's facing, potentially in twenty two tea, for how does that way with you that such a loaded question? How does that way with me? We haven't overzealous prosecutor unfolding county and right now we feel very firmly that these indictments are frivolous. So now we are looking at that as you know, the united states, spain, and put into this outrageous situation form we will see how this plays out. It is very important that people be I that the state of georgia is very concerned about what is happening.

our president and wants to make sure that the laws are in place to see to it that fairness prevails and that we are not able to weapon eyes. Are judicial system north through our prosecutors scope brooks in texas about these? cases. Is there not a fundamental principle in america? Nobody is above the law and physics as for any individual to answer from a former president on down that that person should have the dankert to answer those charges? Yes, I think so mentally, philosophically, that's all very true, and certainly what I subscribe to as both a voter and as a human being. That said, I believe that you know there was a time and I've been in this on this earth sixty two years in the media, for forty of the There was a time when the media would do all it could to it. There was any bias you couldn't tell way back

and one now, both from the media and from what I would say, almost a disk district attorney. Industry prosecution industry, whatever their sing. to be no interest in hiding the fact that there are different rules for different people so What I feel hears trump thrives in this type of environment. Would he rather night be going through this, of course, but the man has mastery of being able to navigate these situations and even in ways that as much as I try to think deeply uncritically, I cannot figure out how he comes out on top in many many cases, but if he's committed around The law should be applied to him. He should have his day in court and it should be fair. I think the as part of what I just said is: what's missing these beings four things that, if we're gonna be honest about it, that a lot of folks can be charged without there is such a targeted use of the law to go after tat.

in these various ways- and frankly, I think trump will pardon upon here, but must be triumphant at the end of the day, Calgary right. Now I believe that with so many indictments that have been thrown at donald trump become white noise, its if there's just another one. and their not being taken seriously by people who are voting Melanie color and georgia and scant brooks in texas

you're listening to BBC o s conversations with american voters from the BBC well service, so we ve heard from republican and democrat voters, but what the two major political parties and not to your liking or here are three people who feel exactly like that: no brown in durham in north carolina. He runs a biotechnology company david thorn burg, who lives in philadelphia in pennsylvania, he's working with an organization called committee of seventy, which campaigns for good governance and donald There is also from pennsylvania but lives in georgia. This is how he described his political leanings. Definitely a left, leaning, independent with a democratic social pretty hard on the left progressive side. I haven't you David, I am registered as an independent, peer and pennsylvania. I have spent most of my life

as a republican, although maybe your last six or eight years, I sort of bounced around as an independent and, in slovenia. Your excluded from voting, whilst your registered as such is that right works, from voting in primary election switches. Actually, I'm leading an effort to change. That is, I think, it's patently unfair. There's one wait. Two million of us in pennsylvania that sit on our hands during primary elections pennsylvania's seven states that remaining that cat to find a way to allow independence devoted primaries. Now, describe myself as a slightly right, leaning, fiscal, conservative right now I'm disillusioned or disenfranchised with both the Democrats and republicans I'm actively looking at Be a third party if that are possible and the issues that I have is that Mr Biden looks. being the nominees for the Democrats, I think

is too old and in decline. I certainly don't like the vice president's, miss harris Again, I cannot vote for donald trump because I think he disrespects the office of the president. So I'm really looking for some new person in either party Looking for somebody who's, a fiscal conservative, I disagree with some of the republican policies, but I also disagree with some of the democrat policies as well in north carolina. We are actually allowed to vote in the primaries and I voted both ways in the primary. We aspire to be north carolina here in pennsylvania. In those terms, I think you're talking to three folks who are almost unicorns right now, because, unfortunately, a lot of republicans are already locked into voting. Republicans and a lot of Democrats are already locked into voting for them

kratz, so they're just aren't that many folks that are either up in the air or not allied with a political party, which I think is personally, is really unfortunate. I don't think that's. The kind of democracy are founders intended. I agree a lot of my friends democrats, no matter what happened, and I dont understand it, because I try I do some of the policies that I disagree with what just shrug and say: oh well whatever, and I'm like wow okay. So what do you guys make of the tea party system, then? Is it working? I would say it's working just as intended, which is to the detriment of the voter and the citizenry at large yeah. I suspect, if you asked that question to voters around the country, you'd see a lot of unhappiness with the current

This is not just these two candidate who will presume over, we don't know, will be the nominee for president a lot of the polling suggest people are looking for more options that could be independent candidates were party candidates, more candidates, or it's just that that independent voters, be given more power in the process. The short for all. That is, I think, folks, her that thrilled with the conduct of political parties. Right now, and you know you could go back to the founding country. George Washington warned us about the corrosive effect of parties and Almost fifty years later, here we are I think it is working. I dont like this is black and white choice. I like this. Shades of gray between the black and white

choices that are just so many polarizing issues right now, abortion guns, religion. I can understand why people ah relating to one party or another as it were, but I certainly would like more americans to be more open minded in terms of choosing a grey scale between the Democrats and republicans when the two party system was at its strongest. Both parties had to have a fairly broad coalition of voters that they represent.

And you know you could have a northern liberals and conservative working class folks in the democratic party, you actually had a moderate wing of the of the republican party, that's when they worked at their best, but increasingly both parties seemed to have narrowed their requirements for for membership. We end up with these litmus test of issues, and so parties are are more narrowly defined and less inclusive than they used to be. And if we get to that point, then I don't think the two party system is is serving as well. What's it like discussing your politics, your issues, your feelings with other people, if you can get them off their social media rants and there you know what color jersey, they're, wearing and so forth. I believe that americans have always been at our finest. We are nuance. We are measured and and

way if we can get to the point where our dinner table conversations aren't dominated by politics. That probably think cause it's exhausting and by the way I think people are exhausted and sort of like I've got here on my own. I do we have to do this, so I'm still here Yeah, I get into some quite heated debates actually with people who are very leftist an I tend to be more to the right. What made it different feed to then stepped back and become independent undecided swing. Voter, however, you describe owed to find being an independent, is not removing yourself from the process process. More that I don't have a great affection for either party and I actually sort of bristle at the notion when people say. Oh, you

independent voters you're just apathetic and don't care and not engaged, and so that's what the narrative is. Isn't it but guess who the narrative is framed by the two major parties and by the way, forty five percent of americans identify as political independents so way more than either party now they're not always able to register because of the rules of the game? But that's where folks are Donald, I'm only twenty five. So my voting options were fairly limited, but I will say in twenty sixteen. I voted for raw paul, a third party libertarian candidate boy. Oh boy, did it upset a number of my friends who blamed me vehemently for trump beating hilary? They said. Oh, if you had voted blue, we would have been ok. Was the rhetoric at that time to try to push third party hopefuls into sort of crush them into

the party system? That was actually the last election and I was like third party candidates are remotely viable, I'm fine now into this system, because I can't feel bad. I won't allow myself to feel like this again in twenty and say I voted for the ultra. I gotta help my nose and I voted for him. I regret doing that, he's a very divisive person. I just feel that he certainly should not have the nomination I'd like to see him just go away, but it also like to see Joe Biden go away to everything, well the nominees I either will abstain by not voting all search out independent candidate, if I can convince you, please do not abstain the worst thing you can do is thrown away because then you just know com. show. Even if you, if you're unhappy, was a third party you vote for at least you voted for someone else, and they they're. Just in terms of what we change your mind. Is it you

changed. Is it the party? That's changed. Is it the leader that the parties are presenting you with it would have to be monitored? but I would say, number one: both parties to realise that their very out of line with what human beings on the ground, what then they need to find a human candidate who is capable of showing up doing the job being good person not just being an attractive candidate to donor pool or a big corporate donation. I would happily for the rest of my life, remain as an independent and sometimes vote for democrats and sometimes search for republicans. Given that choice, Gaza, I think that's the most healthy kind of a competition we should embrace and some more substantial portion of the electorate would follow me in that very follow the rest of us. When you who is of a candidate is driven by the color of the political jersey. You wearing there's something wrong. There's just something wrong

I don't believe I have changed. I do believe the parties have changed in terms of their outlook that policies, I do believe the leader certainly have changed and neither of them are worthy, in my opinion, to be the president of the united states, the chain my mind. I would like to see a new leader from either party somebody who is younger got more energy, more ideas, ways to fix the problems that we have in the country, and I would put myself behind him or her if they could convince me of that vision and their energy for the future, no brown, North carolina, donald windsor in georgia and david phonebook in pennsylvania. Three people who want to be part of the political debate but have rejected both the republican and democratic party I'm the quest of iraq. You ve been listening to the documentary from the BBC well service and conversations with american voters,

expected elements. Is the pod cost exploring the science behind the headlines? That's an interesting concept, just bob I was excited each week we take a new story, is probably heard of and use the site surrounding it as a springboard to dive into other stories. That may not be on your right where he might be laughed and fighters approximately six or tell bad side effect at all. Unexpected elements from the BBC world service find it wherever you get your BBC put costs Recently client John met his banker to discuss plans for a clean energy building. Found with a shared passion for building something more momentum. We changed first the bank. Let's find a way. The first horizon: dot com, slash jain, tired of it its barging in to your favorite news, bod good news. ad free listening on amazon music is included with your prime membership. Just

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