From the New York Times, unlike above our this issue today, as the confirmation hearings for Amy Coney Bear. It begin this week more has been made of the decades long battle that got the right to this moment with a conservative mature, cemented on the court and a who openly opposes abortion. Less attention has been paid to how the left lost that back today, a conversation with a lease hope present, of narrow approach, choice, America, its Monday October trucks. The morning Michael Emily's, our police hurry. You also to be the one saying hello. Oh thank you.

So, at least, the reason we want to talk to you is because we are at this. very strange moment in the United States, the majority of Americans support the right to abortion and Support Roby weighed, and yet the Senate is about to confirm and openly antiabortion justice. The third concern. justice in the past four years, and that right to abortion, very what seems in jeopardy and your group near all where's America exist to protect abortion rights so it seems are on the cusp of of a pretty historic defeat. Despite having public opinion on your side, does that all feel kind like an accurate characterisation of where things are ye a year? Michael, I would say that's pretty accurate.

And not to take the the group that I led out of it. But I would say that the american people are on the cusp of a pretty historic to feed if, in fact, this nominee is confirmed- and this court does what the President said it was designed to do witches undermine the fundamental right to abortion, will say more say more about that when you see the american people. Well, when I say the american people are on the cusp of a very important issue feet. What we are experiencing is: something that a minority of people have not been able to achieve legislatively not been able to gain political consensus around

using one of the branches of government to impose that will on people and the impact will be fairly catastrophic, both in terms of what people will experience in their real lives, but also in terms of the confidence of the? American people that our values sets are common, believes are part of what guides are democracy. You're, saying that conservatives are using the Supreme Court to do what they couldn't do legislatively but wouldn't the right say: that's what the left also did with Roby Wade is the right has been doing it better than the left over the past few years. You know, I don't know what they would say, I would say,

that we have tracts a lot more money resources, an infrastructure going in to the advancement of right wing judicial activists, everything from me than the federalists. Society to judicial crisis network has poured resources into a strategy of moving like minded people onto the courts in a way, I just don't think there is a parallel among mainstream or left progressives but does not just mean that the right is doing it more effectively or, because we ve been going around, we find ourselves in this moment where, where we are, where the court looks like it does, the lower courts, look like they do filled with conservative does and Amy corny bear. It is going to be unless something radical changes in the next couple of days confirmed and roll. is an thread, so I just want understand how we got here and part of that.

is the right being very effective in this long term strategy. But it's also Correct me, if I'm wrong about what the left has not done to counter that, We have heard a lot about the success of the right and its strategy. And were really interested in what the left was doing during this time. When you came into this role in twenty thirteen President Obama was in his second term, he had too liberal and two female justices on the Supreme Court, Alina Kagan and Sonya sort of my are Donald Trump is not a political figure in anyone's mind and at the highest level it seems like the most important thing for abortion rights advocates

is very secure, and that is the reliability of ROE V Wade. So talk to me about that time sure when I went to Neverland two thousand and thirteen we were already dealing with what are because he talked about a lot. A lack of equity and access. The right itself stood. Both state legislators had been putting restriction after restriction after restriction and place, which disproportionately did as it always does, impact low income, women, women of color, and we were kind of them. This massive cognitive disconnect right. We had a majority word, but not enough awareness of what was already happening in some of these red states. What the real impact on women and families

was, and a lack of sufficient motivation for our elected officials to speak up about this right to make it as central on our side as they have made it on their side, because I was seeing that across the board, Lord nobody was talking about the issues in a way that represented the threat of the erosion of abortion rights that we were already seeing manifest at state level, the power grab that was happening from the right and, in fact, the real extremity of the rights position that actually needed to be exposed. So you think about twenty twelve when Todd again, who was running against Claremont Cask, all said in an inn

you, women, don't need abortions in the case of rate, because if it's a legitimate rape, the body has a way of shutting that whole thing down. A piece of medical disinformation, absolutely untrue, but also all the sun people more like woe wow. That feels like a very extreme statement and he lost rate today. Can lasting farming has but one. But what we failed to do in that moment was demonstrate that Todd Ache and was, in fact demonstrative of an entire or philosophical framework that was driving the GEO p and was hugely em popular, and I think, silence in the political realm has both allowed the right to gain power, but also created unimaginable threats. Again, yes to abortion rates, which is important enough on its own. But really this is an entire ideology. Framework that is a way out of step with american mainstream majority.

are you saying that in twenty thirteen the writing on the wall to use your phrase was really extreme speech around abortion, like what you are seeing from figures like a toddy again and that you are concerned, because there wasn't a comfort level on the left around confronting it and talking about it, and so you felt it wasn't being sufficiently addressed. I think that there were absolutely parts of the reproductive Rights and justice movement that were pushing for it to be talked about, but I think you know most people, unelected positions have been taught for a long time to sort of check the box.

being what we would call pro choice and then move on, because there was an inherent discomfort and actually interrogating the issue much more than that, and I think that has fundamentally allowed the right to gain disproportionate power and hurt us. You know the fundamental platform of the Republican Party at this point is extreme and it so would deserves to be interrogated. Why does it look like when you criminalize abortion? What happens on actually sending women to jail most women who seek abortion, her already moms what happens to their family? What are you doing to doktor, How do you investigate miscarriages? What does that look like and feel like to the american people, who have

join this fundamental freedom for almost fifty years. It is a freely radical change and our culture and our society, and it has to be interrogated- and I do not think we ve done enough- that so back its twenty urging you go to narrow with this concern your head, that there is not sufficient appetite within the movement to confront this so What is your priority at that point? Because in this period there are dozens of restrictions, being put in Place North Carolina, Ohio, Michigan TAT this, where you are from all kinds of restrictions, hospital admitting privileges building codes for abortion clinics, so What were you doing? Were you on the ground? For any these battles, yeah. solely, I mean a narrow, along with our partners and when working vast movement has a presence in all fifty states, but you mentioned

taxes- and you know, I think sexes as such, an interesting place to start, because in twenty thirteen Wendy Davis took to the floor of the Texas State Legislature in an old school alabaster and taxes lying require you do it really old school, and you know Irish she was, she was basically standing in the legislator, trying to physically filibuster, for I think so record amount of time, a sea law that would have restricted abortion absolutely and she had a personal story that was driving her, but she lost the battle. She did right. She actually won by the old set of rules. She filibustered long enough for the clock to expire. Then governor rate Perry said well we'll go into another special session to get this done,

that didn't work, and then they had to change the rules again. They went to a third special session with changing the number of votes that was required, and I think that was really a crucial example of their willingness to change the rules to drive an agenda that I can't get done by the old democratic way of doing things. North Carolina, you mentioned rate, one of the most controversial restrictions became sort of famous cause. They passed it in the dead of night. attached to a motorcycle safety bill, these are things you do when you really don't want the public to have the opportunity you. Understand what is going on and participate in the fundamental democratic process of being able to lobby. You are elected officials so that they are representing you. That is what we have seen and I think that what we have been wholly

unprepared and, to some degree unwilling to fight, is the changing of the rules at every step of the way. But What point to you and the people you work with turned yourselves and say. They're changing the rules. We need to do the same I remember you know we have to set a conversation with Marjorie Ghana. Falsehood of this isn't the emptiness and it's very clear from talking to her that the exact means partners. The process is not exactly top of mine. It's the goal and I think it

becomes clear and hearing. You described the assent in watching recent history that the right was simply more dog head and, in some ways more creative. Thank you. I mean I mean, I think I'm that per second, though I think that is absolutely true across issues isn't it I mean we're we're dealing with a cry, this and democracy of which this threat to abortion rights is but a piece of the puzzle. You know when we say everything is on the line with this election or even the Supreme Court. Not many- and I think people really do understand that row. His is absolutely in the crosshairs, but so is the affordable care act which was actually passed with popular opinion by the will of the people, as well as massive strides in civil rights. Voting rights, Algae BT, Cuba

It's a little just alluded to. The fact that you know a burger fell is on the line in adjusting quake at the rate case, to take it in the last couple weeks I think, it is emblematic of a deeper disease that has overtaken our democracy and think. Most american people still want to believe in democracy and not changed the rules so that we end with minority rule month. Rate has been very comfortable with that for a very long time, and I think that has brought us to the dangerous point we are at. I'm curious if use I, the movement, has demanded too much purity from democratic candidates- and I use that word because that's the word that was used by Senator Clare Mechanical, the former democratic senator from Mister who came under immense pressure from Democrats during her twenty eighteen reelection bid to be very vocal and defending abortion To do the thing that you said in some ways, democratic

done enough of in this era, and this was at a time when abortion rates were. Becoming increasingly limited in mechanical state and lost that raised to a republic and in her point after that, defeat was that the Democratic Party and its out eyes, are forcing Democrats to pass a purity test on issues like abortion and its alienating some voters and pudding candidates, a political Ask which means that, rather than having a democratic senator, who is maybe not especially spoken on abortion, but is a vote for abortion rate in the Senate Missouri has no democratic centre, which is in fact the case right now. It does that resonate with you that critique. You know this is something with a great deal of respect that I think sentiment has colonizers Rihanna, I think when in Missouri, just like in my home state of Texas, when we actually have the

Am I know conversation about who is standing for freedom, trust in their constituents to make their own decisions verses, those who would seek to control those Josh Hall, heaping great example of that? We will, as this is a republican opponent, an end when, when we fail to interrogate them on the consequences of their extreme position, we fail to make real to the voters what the stakes are, but that, at the end of the day, red states, purple States blue states when you actually frame the question of when it comes to. Who should make the decision about outcomes of individual pregnancies? Most people in every state believe that that is a decision best left to the individual and that when we take,

time to have a real and that it compassion based conversation with voters. They are so with us, but what about an imaginary female voter wants to for clear mechanical, but feels there is not a place for this voters belief. But yes, a woman should have the right to an abortion Only in very where circumstances and she get the message: if you get the kind of mechanical campaign you want that, that's not! the democratic parties view, because the Democrats have followed you guidance and they are being outspoken until you lose that voter and send them to the republican side. Now, I would argue, that vote or needs to have a more honest and open conversation, one that gets down to core values, one that Bert

mine's everybody of the fact that, like we don't walk and our neighbours shoes and when they are allowed to have that conversation and say these are real stories of your neighbors who have faced with real complications and life. Who should make that decision? What is freedom mean that we actually, when those it's when we refuse to engage in the conversation we refuse to allow people to sort of work through their complicated personal emotions, as is a plurality of people who I self identify, as pro life are still with us on the governing question of who decides. But if we don't have the cover station, then they don't know where they feel it's interesting. The waiters put their because having some people might hear what you just said and think boy. That's not me eating a voter where they are that's. The border, how they ought to think about this, and that is potentially very dangerous.

critically, but you're saying if you, engage the voter and have the conversation. The outcome will be what you and this movement wants. That's that's a pretty complicated political calculation. I think that's very, but I mean isn't democracy about the messy stuff race, gender. equity, the happens with sex. What happened you? These are overly complicated conversations, and fundamentally when we have them. I think we win so declare mechanical. You say just cloning I understand this I wish you'd had that conversation more fully, because I think it would have benefited you. I think that's right and not just the conversation about what we stand for and what we represent, but what this terrifying world does actually like that. We are on the cusp of, but where we are right now, just the political reality of it is that a Claremont

School loses folks like her. The blue dog Democrats lost and Democrats have not held the Senate, and If you can elect Democrats in those kinds of states, then you can control the Senate and can control the Supreme Court, and that brings us back I think too, will be weighed and where we are right now and In talking to my colleagues ahead of talking to you, perhaps the biggest critique of the abortion Rights movement, This period is what made I was an over reliance on the security of Roby Way, This notion that, no matter how bad it were to get at state level, or in Congress dad a woman's right to an abortion was gonna, be constitutionally protected

How do you feel there has been a kind of over reliance, a kind of taking for granted that that thing would always be in the background? And yes, if I had a time machine and could go back and Simon was an adult in charge the organization that I am now I absolutely would have changed the way that we did things through the ninety in the nineties there was a real opportunity to go on offense in a way that we didn't, because people thought overly secure. and the right at the same time, twenty forty twenty hindsight is great, you know, and so we can only control how we move forward and how we best secure reproductive freedom for everybody in this country, not just in theory but in practice.

we'll be right back. On October, twenty third, after fourteen years more at his back in the face of the pandemic in the middle of the election and at the heart of the chaos, America has changed, but he hasn't bore at subsequent movie film. Delivery of prodigious bribed to american regime for make benefit once glorious nation of Kazakhstan brought you buy Amazon videos on October. Twenty third only prime video The least you just said that in retrospect you wished to move had done more to prepare for reality in which row was not secure and which could have done more,

ass of work at state level and legislatively, but you're saying you have to put forward. So, let's look for this document. The months ahead, We are airiness episode on the more that Amy Coney berets confirmation hearings are scheduled to start innocent it. Our colleague of TAT, covers a supreme court and, dissipates that before we ever see row fully overturned, will first see republican states moved to limit the right to an abortion because they think the courts are gonna back them. And that the gap between a woman's right to have an abortion in democratic states and Republicans EAST, in a grow wider and wider, and that scenario in mind are there are states where you feel you must do the most work right now. I wonder so long looked at what are, as we would call sort of hops are outpost for abortion access, as states have gotten more restrictive and more directly,

and radio is crucially important in a way that they passed laws to protect and defend the right to abortion and also remove existing restrictions and state law, not just for the people of Illinois, although that would be enough, but because they are sort of an oasis. In a region of states that have been one more restrictive? And so now that there are patients coming across state lines, so you see, certain states is kind of satellites for nearby

republican, controlled states that may end up restricting abortion significantly. I think that is the interim strategy. However, I think it's really important that your listeners understand that the goal of the movement that has seen so much control is not federalism not to send these decisions back to the states. They ve been very clear about that. It is to criminalize abortion across the country and we have to meet that's rat with our own willingness to say it is long overdue. That we ensure that these rights and freedoms into a federal statue, meaning an act of Congress. Yes, yes, do you think there would be political appetite among Democrats in Congress to pass that kind of distillation, it would be controversial. It would be polarizing

Given all the competing views and priorities of what might be a theoretical, democratic Congress. It's not a subject the Democrats campaign on at the moment. It's not a subject that you hear Joe Biden or Kamala Harris talking about you know I. I can hardly think of anything less controversial than wanting to cut a pyro through federal statute and in fact I think it is the republican spy This wish that Democrats endeavour advance that legislation, because it puts them in an impossible position of trying to visa base that his way out of the main stream or actually vote for their political future, which does require them acknowledging this fundamental freed up, and so I am absolutely dedicated to working with federal elected officials to call that bluff

that is what has actually been our downfall. We're coming back to where we began. It seems like it would require a lot of the kinds of public conversations itself. Like you, ve, been thinking we need to have since twenty thirteen to get such legislation passed, though I don't hear us having those conversations just yet yeah. I think culture changes really hard. You know we're dealing with again a political climate that the radical right gambled on like we're just uncomfortable with these conversations, and I cannot be more clear- our silence on these issues and the values that drive us to enjoy a hand victories to them that they would not otherwise have given that we are Those conversations currently

do you understand why someone who supports abortion rights might be feeling a little terrified and disheartened right now as Amy Corny barons. Confirmation barrels through and it looks like row- is in jeopardy and the plan being articulated is one that requires a lot of time and a lot of political will and, as you just said, we all cultural shifting think people are right to be alarmed. I think we are on the precipices, something that is bad and we'll get worse now a lot of people, but I would ask those people to actually listened more carefully because we are having those conversations, listen to Jan Jordan.

The Senate for in Georgia during their debate that extreme, an extraordinary law, listen to her invoke the radical position, her colleagues across the aisle talk and suggesting that miscarriages or something to be investigated, listen to core faith, Walker in the State House in Missouri who has really underscored the hypocrisy of her colleagues who will move to outlaw abortion services will not addressing infant and maternal mortality in that state. These conversations are happening. They are exposing hypocrisy, they are exposing the dam. consequences to allowing this agenda, which is so out of step with public medium public opinion to dominate and red states and tapered shoes from those on the front lines, elevate their voices and conversations, and we want

right, the change that we need to see. You fear that those two lawmakers, maybe yelling into the wind in those states. I mean those are red states. Those states with republican legislatures me put another why are you now operating as the underdogs here, in the way that the right saw themselves until recently end how does the underdog operate, if not with a similar playbook as the one used by the right to get to this point, I dont think that we look in that way. The people on the other side is an undemocratic, if not anti democratic One, and I don't think that's all playbook, because I think that what we have is an understanding that, when we actually we see this for what it is, which is a raven wrapped, remains him

power for my nobody doubts. We start to get its financial benefits of merging all of these movements for voting rights for civil rights for racial. Just as for gender justice for abortion rights into a singular voice that exhibits change politically and through policy, and I actually think- and I think this is important- that they're ramming through this nomination for the Supreme Court has done the service of bringing clarity to the fact that all of our rights are on the line together, and therefore it is bringing coherence to the cacophony in a way that will be transformational in terms of the way elections go and Charlie,

the sight of power and, ultimately, in the way we use the ports and litigation but I still hear you saying that forget the language The left in the movement is hurting all of its cats and bringing it together and trying to marshal a strategy? And at this moment, That may be very disheartening for some people on the left to hear that right now, the abortion its movement, is figuring out how to knit together all the experiences in the people when defeat literally on the horizon, you know, I think, that the goal of the right husband dishearten us it's been to teach us that organizing doesn't matter, and so just engagement is a reasonable strategy, and I don't see that happening and I think if we were to admit defeat and adopt their tools, that would be the end of our democracy, and that is not what we stand for, of course, they're all democratic means

Of achieving top down change and highly regimented organisations and movements, but that has not been the reputation of the kind of activist advocacy laughed. In fact, I remember covering the story of gay marriage in New York. It turned into very chaotic situation until Governor Andrew Cuomo stepped in once and said, we're doing it. My way we're doing a top down. We're gonna get it done in a few months, and he did it but implicit, and that was that the left struggles with this kind of discipline but I would argue that if you are executing a top down an agenda that doesn't actually centre those most affected, that doesn't actually represent the majority of people who will benefit or suffer from laws put into place. It's gonna be a short term victory.

as you say that European may win this confirmation. They may in fact get their greatest wish and undermine row, but that's not the end of the story. You know we are seeing so much more energy on the left. Come from communities come from state level legislatures that is, it strategy. That's been pursued by the right for so long, and we have this sort of powerful weapon on our side, which is that we are the majority and, at the end of the day, I believe as long as our democracy holds, the majority will prevail you know. Ultimately, if our biggest sin is in deep believe in the power of democracy to come out with good outcomes that benefit the

majority of american people in all of our complications and all of our beautiful diversity I'll take. That said, we have to get better at actual it, or else we will lose everything we dear while these are really wanna. Thank you. I appreciate you engaging in conversation with us in being so generous with your time. So thank you. Thank you. The times reports that Judge Amy Coney bear it signed a letter, published in a newspaper in two thousand and six when she was a lot professor opposing abortion, an unusual public declaration for a Supreme Court nominee. Those who signed the letter declared that they could oppose abortion on demand and defend the right to life from fertilisation to natural death.

The letter is expected to be seized upon by Senate Democrats. Do. Coney Berets confirmation hearing as evidence that she has taken a public position on the subject and therefore cannot rule on the subject of abortion in an unbiased manner. Those confirmation hearings are scared, to begin this morning, at nine. A m Eastern we'll be right back support for this part cast on the follow message come from Comcast business. Today, businesses are starting to bounce back, but what, if you could do better than that? What if you could adapt and

new ways to succeed with new customers, while Comcast business wants to You do just that they want to help us This is not just bounce back, but bounced forward to learn more a one, eight hundred five zero one six thousand or go to Comcast business dot com. here's what else you need ten thirty, the second, Presidential debate, scheduled for Thursday has been cancelled after President Trump flatly refused to participate in a virtual format. Instead, Booth Trump and Joe Biden are expected to hold dueling forums on rival tv networks meanwhile, the president's doctor says that his infection is no longer contagious, but did not save whether or not the president is now testing negative for the corona virus. In a sign of democratic, fundraising muscle, Jimmy Harrison, who is

aging Senator Lindsey Gram of South Carolina wheezed fifty's million dollars in the last quarter, the highest quarterly fundraising total for any Senate candidate. In U S history, the fundraising reflects the broader financial might of democratic Senate candidates in twenty twenty and the specific anger among Democrats at Graham O vocal trumped up and chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which is rushing to confirm any Coney bear it to the Supreme Court? Recent poll shows that Harrison who wins badly, Trailed Graham, is now running neck and neck with it. That's it for the deal, I'm like a bar

seen more as we plan for the future see I teach I deal with the financial expertise and agility. You need to help you bank, like your best days, are ahead. That's tomorrow. Thinking empowering you to bank. Like you visit, see, I COM to get started. Member after I see