From your times, I'm like over these ten years. After the arab spring. Tunisia is the only remaining democracy to have emerged from the uprisings. But now the country's president has taken a series of actions that may in peril that democracy today, my colleague Viviane travelled to Tunisia dispute to it citizens and its president, It's Wednesday August force. Vivian, where did this story start for you? I woke up in Cairo where I'm based

Monday morning to the news that there had been huge country wide protests across, Tunisia demonstrations time violent protests as expressed anger, Terry duration of the country's health, economic and social situation. These protests have led to the President Casey basically taking the reins of power for himself. We are seeing political turmoil in Tunisia. Tunisia is president today suspended Parliament, India, finally comes one day after he unilaterally fired the prime minister. He had fired the Prime Minister he had suspended parliament. One of your vote Day. I have taken the responsibility of those who claim that this is related to a coup need to revise your constitutional lesson. it basically seems

He had concentrated all believers of government in his own hands. and ended in. Why was all of that so significant too well for a lot of people, it seems like the last embers of the arab spring had been snuffed out. Explain that Tunisia was supposed to be the success story from the arab spring, which was this sir is a popular uprisings against dictators and authoritarian rule ten years ago that swept across the arab world and they had actually all begun Tunisia, when a young fruit seller set himself on fire in this world town in Tunisia, to protest, police harassment and from there it spread to countries across

the Middle EAST, Egypt, Syria, Libya, Yemen and all of those countries have, you could say, fails in what protesters were hoping for back and twenty eleven there they succumbed to counter revolution or they fell into civil war by Tunisia was supposed to be different. It actually ended up with a democracy with a parliament and elections and freedom of speech, freedom of the press freedom to protest. So a lot of people across the region ends as well in the west, had alive riding on Tunisia as the kind of darling of the arab spring as the one that might succeed. And as I'm sitting at my desk, starting to write about what had happened on Sunday night, I was wondering.

Does this mean the end of this ten year, experiment in democracy and the only country that ended up with one out of these arab spring revolts into? What do you do next So I got on the earliest possible fight to Tunis the capital of Tunisia, and when I landed on Tuesday morning, I was braced for big protests. Things like get out of control of the army might come into the streets. There could be clashes between supporters and opponents of the president and, to my surprise, nothing was happening. It was completely quiet so to try to understand what was going on. I want with the translator and walked round Tunis talking to people in cafes and little parks, bars.

Thank you so much for meeting a short note, a real, You can you can blame, and what did I tell you what you find? What I found was that people weren't that interested in talking about the future of democracy Instead, they were talking about the past ten years and how hard it had been for people to get by and make ends meet. One may wonder, though, less it, though, Just do he doesn't make enough money and he just makes enough to leave he he can make because that's probably one guy described all the debts that he had wrapped up to me. He earns twenty dinners.

Per day, which is about a dollar twenty seven and spend his daily wage for the past ten years. It hasn't changed in ten years, while prices have gone up and he's only gotten more mouths to feed at home. You just take vigorous big fruits, and so he is completely kite made out of his budget fruit out of its budget, so when's. The last time you gave me the only exceptions were a watermelon that was less than a sense that he is with some friends recently and some meat for the

it holiday. A couple of weeks ago, I talk to a teenager an eighteen year old guy in Tunis, so you re you're going to take a boat to Europe. had tried to migrate sue Europe, three separate ties, because he haven't found any of supporting his family, and he felt like the only option is to go Where else, even said means potentially getting arrested or deported or drowning in the Mediterranean. Look we wish that I would have to do now is to Asia Preferment lavishly.

People go Vega. I talked to women who who said that they saw neighbours eating from the trash. one problem is that these decisions is gone or is garbage way, literally God, because in that way a month and a lot of less dramatic examples of people who just said I need to leave its it's, it's had really excited so

been tough for people and even before the revolution, Tunisia was facing economic problems, but a lot of people hoped that democracy would help solve them and help give people better lives by ten years on that democratic government has delivered very much. What do you mean? So since democracy was established a decade ago, Tunisia has faced growing political problems. People increasingly looked at their leaders and politicians who were

out of touch with their needs and seems more interested in lining their own pockets and fighting with each other, then in improving people's lives and that paralysis just seemed to get worse and worse and the corruption seems to get worse and worse. In the last few years, I've literally been fist fights on the floor of parliament, and so by two thousand and nineteen two nations were totally fed up. They wanted change, which is where, but- and I say it comes in so tell me about case- said well. If I wasn't politician at all and that's what people liked about him, he was a former constitutional law professor who had been talking about ways to structure Tunisia Constitution pretty much since the revolution, and he had gotten a following on Facebook

and young people really backs him because he seemed genuinely clean and non corrupts and totally different from any politician. They had known here to regular coffee shops, he smoked cheapest brand of cigarettes and he too, We just seemed interested in making Tunisia work and

He ended up winning in a landslide, but after he got into office, things quickly went south. He was fighting with his own prime minister and then Corona virus head it totally wiped out. Tunisia is tourism industry, which meant that its economy got even worse than over the past couple of months. A big wave in covert case is totally overwhelms the country's hospitals, Tunisia, have the highest covert mortality rate in the region, so that was the backdrop when people started taking to the streets and that's when the president seemed to see

opening, and what it seems like is that he saw the mass just content and he took it as a mandate to cut through all of the gridlock and just sees the reins for himself and that's what he ended up doing right and, as a result, this dam Creasy in Tunisia. The only real democracy to emerge from the arab spring, as you said, isn't feeling of Democrats, it gets starting to suddenly feel kind of authoritarian yeah. Well, that's what I was trying to figure out. I was trying to read the signs to figure out whether this democracy was entering word autocracy and is the weak went on. I ended up

a very first hand, experience with where things might be headed we'll be right back. This episode of the daily is supported by now, what's next, a podcast for Morgan Stanley that helps make sense of life during and after the pandemic, to chart what's changed and where we might be headed Snark Clinton talks with everyone from restaurant owners to therapists, Tasker knots, even third graters, about the opportunity. We have now to rethink some age old assumptions and create a better world search for now. What's next, wherever you listen to pot casts if you find-

self bewildered by this moment, where there's so much reason for despair and so much reason to hope all. At the same time, let me save I hear you. I measure climb from New York Times opinion host of the alpine show and for me, the best way to be back that bewildered feeling is to talk it out with the people who have ideas and frameworks for making sense of it from the Washington Post to my time is editor in chief at box and now isn't it in columnist at the New York Times, I've tried to ask the questions that matter to the people at the heart of those matters like how do we Climate change is the political system fails to act. Has the logic of markets infiltrated to many aspects of our lives? What he's psychedelic teach us about consciousness and in what is safe. I understand about our present that we mess this. The answer poncho and there is going to be plenty to talk about You can find new episodes every Tuesday and Friday wherever you get your pipe costs.

Civilian. What exactly happened to you? What are these first hand? Experience is well, there were a couple of things and one led into the other, but I'll start with the first Wednesday. We were reporting in a pretty poor area of tuna, talking to people about how their lives were going and how difficult it was for them to make ends meet and Sitting in a cafe doing an interview when the photographer, I was working with topped my shoulder and said the police are on their way and pretty soon these plainclothes cops showed up and asked if we return less, and we said yes and they said that they would have to take us back to the local police station to

make sure we were who we said we were, and it didn't feel exactly threatening by. I did know that before I had even nodding to Tunis the local office of Al Jazeera, which is the PAN Arabic Tv Channel had shut down by the authorities? So we go down to the police station and we got the very strong sense than they were checking to see that we were journalists and not spies, you're being harassed. Basically, you didn't feel menacing or scary in the moment. In some ways it felt like a normal document check and they were nice ass. They told us that we couldn't report in my neighborhood anymore, so they kept us from doing journalism

right and if you're evaluating evidence that Tunisia maybe tilting towards authoritarianism. This is not a very good sign. It wasn't great. No, but all the same, I didn't think too much of it and I wanted to just keep reporting by a few hours later. I started noticing all these notifications from social media and people reaching out to ask me if I had been arrested- and I think that's why I got the call that I got Friday morning, which was what so. I got this call from a mysterious number and I picked up and a voice on the other end of the line said this is the chief of Protocol for President. I said we would like you to please be asked.

The presidential palace in an hour. Please dress, formerly the president would like to meet you giving summoned by the present Indonesia yeah. I was summoned by the President of Tunisia and I wasn't appropriately addressed. What do you mean? Well, let's just say it's very hot- in Tunis right now and when I packed I was not expecting to meet president. I was expecting to cover protests, so I get at a taxi and rush over to the presidential palace. and luckily I had bribed a button down with me- that I could throw over my tank topped ends after waiting a bet, we made the chief of Protocol for the President, who tells us

this is how you will enter. This is where you stand. This is where we said: please don't set until you're told to, and then he looks down at my shoes which are practical, sandals, and I see this look crosses face of this is unacceptable, while, and so before we go in, he brings out a pair of high heels, it aware, which are too sizes to beg. What are you thinking at this point? Would you Imagine your head is happening here. Well, we in asking for an interview and haven't gotten anywhere, and so of course I wanted to steer it into an interview in and ask a few questions, but that's not what it turned out to be at all what turn out to be well, so I climbed in my two big heels, and it's this.

very form, all audience room where all the chairs are edge in gold and there shall ears- and it looks like a stage that ends as it turned out- that's kind of what it was seldom out and was in there was a camera crew their ends. This meeting was posted as a video on his official facebook page or two at the carbon market, and it turned out to be a lecture, a lecture on what the? U S, constitution, of all things.

Tom, so we sit down and the president starts talking and he doesn't stop. What are you suffer outage he's sitting? There is strong and already in this very residents form all arabic units and he had a sheaf of papers to the right of him, and one of them was this copy of the: U S: constitution, purple! Does it mean for me and He even read some of it to me and friends, like Ulysses, that really lucky that here and basically has point- was I'm not gonna. Be a dictator, I respects the constitution. In fact, I taught the U S constitution for more than three decades. I understand freedom of speech. I understand freedom of the press and therefore I respect it.

The tunisian constitution as well, and the only reason I'm doing this now is because Tunisia is in a desperate state, more about our homeland gone and justice. Abraham Lincoln had to take extraordinary measures to save the United States of affairs. So I have to take extraordinary measures to save Tunisia during this moment of crisis so he almost compares what he's doing too The civil war era in the United States Iraqi and at some point he quoted, is look real Alexis Tocqueville Gama, columns, you'd better be gone. He quoted Charles De Gaulle. And it wasn't for a while that I had a chance to break in and ask him some questions and how tobacco not so. Well, I tried to break in and say: well, can you explain what happened to us the other day in terms of having our

learning interfered Wes. Can you explain why you're vision is for the country? Can you explain how dissolving parliament and firing your prime minister? How does that fit into your view of the constitution and are you sure that what you're doing isn't, authoritarian and ages when an answer he and his advisers kept telling me? No. This is not an interview. This was just a meeting if like to arrange an interview we can do later on, you can apply for that by it. This meeting is our while we're sure could overcome, So this meeting in which the prison- you just summons you to insist. he's not becoming authoritarian. Amity celebrates democracy and yet he never let you ass. A single question ends up in a way we

forcing the idea that actually he is tilting into authoritarianism? Well, it's not totally for me to judge, but as a friend sets me later on, there is nothing like monologue on free speech where the person you're talking to doesn't get to ask a single question. I think it definitely reinforce the idea that this president wants to do things his way and not be held. The count. for what he was doing. As you said, it may not be for you to judge as a journalist, but it is of course, for the people of Visa and I'm curious after all this time you sent in the country what your senses that they have to say about the present Actions and whether they are democratic or democratic enough. So what do you think of that President Arafat to a phone? I found that pretty much every tunisian I talk too. We are happy to get paid.

Was pretty happy with what the president was doing waiting for their for these things. You know people sedge grade somebody needed to step up and come up with a plan, I have even I've been. Somebody needed to bring these corrupt politicians to justice or corrupted the boss deposited and. somebody needed to just take the and undertake economic reforms and get covered under control. We'll, given everything that you have laid out here, you can begin to understand why the people you're talking to why tunisians, prioritize your next meal and their economic security over these High minded ideals and structures of democracy, and they could forgive him for doing

that might not seem perfectly democratic event. I think I can twenty eleven what people want, they were chasing for justice and more freedoms, and they wanted to able to make a decent living without being harassed by the police by they weren't necessarily asking for democracy. The way Americans see them Say they wanted better lives, and if you talk to nations, they say we dont while dictatorship, but we also don't want a completely dysfunctional democracy where we get to vote yes, but our lives are not better and a lot of you by talk to over the past week said we hope

and believe that the president will find a way to fix things without stripping our freedoms away. But if he doesn't all just go back out onto the streets in protest again and get something else, and Tunisia is only ten years into this. It's a really young, really fragile democracy and I dont, know how things will play out. I do know that for now, at least their willing to wait and see, poverty, and thank you very much appreciated. Thank you, Michael over the past few days, Tunisia, security service has arrested several critics of president side as well as judges,

raising new questions about his commitment to democracy. His dismissal of parliament will remain in effect till the end of August, at which point we need to decide whether and how to restore its authority or great back this productivity tool is saving people one day every week. How could it brings all your work in one place, so you can focus, can get we're done without switching apps teams and companies like Goober, will and web flow use click up to save time and hid their goals. Cook up must be on to something ten thousand five star reviews, two hundred thousand plus highly productive teams and the one of the fastest growing towards the best part click up is free forever, so try click up today. I click up dot com slashed,

daily here's. What else you need today investigation has revealed conduct, link roads, the very fabric and character of our state government, in shines light on injustice that can be present at the highest levels of government or report conducted by the of his New York's attorney general and release on Tuesday found that the states Governor Andrew Cuomo, sexually harassed, multiple current and former government employees and that he broke state and federal laws in the process. the investigators independent, been corroborated. Substantiate these facts. The range of views and evidence putting contemporaneous notes and communications. The report documents pattern of unwanted, touching and inappropriate comments, including toward

Member of the governors, own security, detail of female state trooper, recalled Cuomo wanting his hand across her stomach and down her back, making comments about her appearance and kissing her on the cheek In one case, the report claims homo and his allies illegally retaliated against one of the women, had made her allegations public. The report renewed cause from fellow Democrats, including president bite for Cuomo to either resign or be removed from office. I want you to know directly from that. I never touched anyone inappropriately or made inappropriate sexual advance

response deny the allegations? Call the report by us and made clear that for now he does not plan to resign. I am sixty. Three years old, I've lived my entire adult life in public view. That is just not who I am, and that's not, who I have ever been today's episode was produced by surreal sharply and clear tennis, getter withheld from Jessica chop. It was edited by Michael, but why can in the original music by Marian Lozano and Alicia Egypt, and was engineered by Chris, why

that's it. I'm see: Obama, Cinema.