The special counsel’s indictment of Roger J. Stone Jr. contains details as over-the-top as Mr. Stone himself, revealing, for instance, that he encouraged an associate to use a tactic straight from “The Godfather.” But the indictment — which shows the most direct link yet between the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks — is wholly serious. Guest: Mark Mazzetti, a Washington investigative correspondent for The New York Times. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
From the New York Times. All my cover about this today
Today, the special council indictment of Roger Stone contains details as over the top as stone himself, including encouraging and associates to use a tactic straight from the godfather
incitement itself, is quite serious in finally making only which we, the Trump camp and with you
it's one January. Twenty
Twenty nine FBI, the
my whole founded on the door
I opened the door to a girl, pointed automatic weapons.
I would ask there were
We have some major breaking news in the Mahler investigation, Roger Stone. You see I'm right there, president trumps Longtime Collagen Visor former campaign aid has been.
I stood in Florida charge was seven federal, bellowings fraction of an official proceeding five council making false statements and one count a witness tampering. This has nothing to do
the president has nothing to do with the White House. Beyond that, I'm not gonna get excited about banking world wars. There is no circumstances under which I will.
What goes against the president's. Nor will I
wise to ease the pressure. I myself
today.
more precisely what do we need to know about who Roger Stone its Rogers
is a legendary republican operative who, from the earliest days of his career, has plied the dark arts
scandal mongering and dirty tricks in aid of political campaign? Are you telling me I was a lie? Is a trickster Roger is a shady care
later. Ok, I know Roger Stone and you're. Not we worked for next than he famously. Tat, too,
his hero on his back and who, among us, can say that the questionable consultants resume is filled with work for republican Stars, Nixon Reagan, Bush Senior,
He is someone who very proudly talks about how he tries to plant stories with the press, someone who tries to dig up any kind of personal dirt about a candidate in order to help the other side, uncertainly guilty of bluffing and posturing and pumping the Democrats unless they pass some law against Bush, and I missed it, I'm engaging in trade craft, its politics, I'm sure it's driving the Democrats.
Crazy, but there's nothing illegal about it. So this is someone who, while for many people who hate politics, they would hate someone like right your stone. The truth is Jimmy,
Irish middle name was not Hussein, a very substantial,
were people wonder because of the policies of this administration about when the present
is a Muslim. They may ensure large romp be saying that, or at least condoning it with his silence. I don't they,
Thank you commented either way. He goes on television in strange outfit. Seed gives interviews from his pool and clearly in many cases, doesn't take himself to seriously so is kind of a psycho, except he. Someone who Donald Trump has taken seriously for a long time is a regular guy. You can talk to me like a regular person. There's nothing for more or stilted about him and he's is funny. He's got a great self deprecating,
yet he just fund be with he's been this sort of informal adviser to tramp over decades and someone who long long before anyone took seriously the idea of Donald Trump being the President of the United States, Roger Stone was pushing this idea. It was not until nineteen,
eighty seven really late. Eighty seven, that I begin thinking about him as a presidential candidate. Although it has often been a contentious relationship yeah, I think we have a complicated relationship, but first we recognise I'm a trump loyalist. Even when he's wrong I'll be there, they ve been at odds at times he someone who didn't last very long on the Trump camp
he started out as an official campaign visor, but was fired from the campaign pretty quickly and more turmoil for tromp our top long time associate bull from his business world and in the political realm, Roger Stone is out tonight dispute about whether he resigned or was fire terms. Campaign says stone was five because he was using the campaign to seek publicity for himself. I have no interest in going back, although I strongly or trump we have managed to real differences, and meanwhile is making the very best chase form.
Of that I can cause. I do think he has what it takes an insofar as he was involved in the campaign. What exactly was his role as an informal advice and wanted that amount to he was the classic late night phone call person do serve, listen to what Trump was thinking. He was the confidence of then Canada Trump talking to him by phone being a sort of back channel
vice outside official campaign communications. You didn't always know that Roger Stone was there because he did have this behind the scenes role, but it was pretty apparent to people close to Trump that Roger Stone had this sort out sized influence
we're drop. It seems to me there's more than meets the eye here with Roger Stone Parting Company, from the trunk campaign coming on my programme and others, and and and given the big trumpets you media types
so conspiratorial, now the stone trump types. I think I can speak.
So he was behind the scenes until he wasn't in August twenty. Sixteen a few months before the election, Roger Stone sent a very cryptic tweet about.
But Jester Roger Storm tweeted that it would soon be quote produced his time in the barrel, and he said it will soon be his time in the barrel now pedestrian was John Podesta. The campaign chairman.
Four Hillary Clinton and no one really knew what that meant. Until a few months later, in October, a few weeks before the election, he sent out another two.
Are you said on Wednesday? Hillary Clinton is done: Hashtag, Wikileaks, Roger Stone Rights, Thursday October sex,
in a science will deliver a devastating exposition Hilary. At a time of his choosing, I stand,
my prediction hashtag handcuffs for Hilary,
and then we need to talk about these happy email. The majestic emails spill out a few days later, Wikileaks released
more than two thousand emailed they claim they came from her campaign. Chairman John Podesta, another staffers. The leak revealed transcripts from some Clinton's paid Wall Street speeches. This is the first time there are actually getting a look at these Wall Street speeches. What you see is that her own words really hit on her own perceive weaknesses, particularly
around we're late ability and trust. You see why she really wasn't in a hurry to release these, as they really highlights the lot of concerns the voters have about her, and so this is again Roger Stone
creating this image that he had a direct channel to Wikipedia
and knew what the information was going to be before became public brain. If I remember,
directly one of those working weeks dumps of emails,
was right around the time of the access Hollywood taping published October. Seventh, the access Hollywood tape roads
comes up in one hour later, Wikileaks starts right
my emails into the public, one can say that there may have those things might not a bit a coincidence which
interesting timing within hours and, of course, that's very fortuitous timing. If you're, Canada, Trump very
quickly. A lot of the media started focusing on the majestic emails rather than this explosive story about the access Hollywood, too
So this point justifiably, everyone is starting to wondered- does Roger Stone. This informal advisor to the President, who is in touch with the campaign
does he have inside knowledge of what's going on at Wikileaks? Is he coordinated with this organization? Yes and remember, rudder
John has built a career on creating an image that he does have great access. I asked:
We have to communicate.
With the sound, I believe the next Tortugas documents protein
to the Clinton Foundation, he does have incited others. Don't I think that the size is going to be very,
influential in this election, because she's gonna be educating the american people about the pointless once the russian investigation he's up, though he has to reverse course. I had no advance notice of the content source or the exact disclosure time of the Wikileaks disclosures assigned himself
said? So, in fact, Sancho said in his own tweets and in interviews that Roger still never predicted anything that I had an already said in public. He asked to sort of peat himself as someone who didn't have that knowledge who didn't have any insight, because that was something that could potentially put him in real legal jeopardy.
So what are we learn from this indictment last about what is really going on?
so what we learned on Friday is tat. Roger stone, in fact, did have insight into what Wikileaks was doing. He made extensive efforts to
find out what Julian Assange was planning and we find out that he was directed by people inside the campaign to go find out what Wikileaks was doing. So we really
first time have a sense that there was a link between Wikileaks, his efforts to damage Hillary Clinton and the Trump campaigns efforts to damage Hillary Clinton, and that link was Roger Stone and something else that should not be lost in all. This is that all of this was happening months after it was first revealed that the russian government was behind this operation to hack the democratic servers and put the information out for Wikileaks and that significant, because it's one thing to be coordinating with Wikileaks when no one quite knows how it got those internal. Let me males it's another to be coordinating with colleagues once it understood that the emails its disseminating
stolen by Russia. It seems to elevate this above wanting negative information about your opponent out in the world. That's right! All of this was done. While it is well known that the Russians were behind this operation, so do we know who, on the campaign was talking to Roger Stone and encouraging him to keep community
eating with Wikileaks and find out when their leaks would occur. That's word becomes really interesting. The times reported a few months ago that Steve Bannon, who is the campaign chairman at the end, was in contact with Roger Stone about this. In early October, Stone Rights
then, in that Wikileaks would release quote a load every week going forward, he separately rights to a supporter involved in the Trump campaign.
Spoke to my friend in London last night. The payload is still coming friend in London, presumably meaning Julian Assange.
But the Mahler indictment has a very tantalizing detail. Puts up the indictment said that a senior campaign official quote was directed by some one to contact stone about additional Wikileaks releases. There's a very odd use of the passive
is that you would not expect in an indictment written by lawyers with Ivy League education. The environment does not say who it was that directed the senior campaign official. Of course, it's legit speculation that that person could only be Donald Trump. We don't know everything
ascribing here about Roger Stones, communications with the campaign and Roger Stones, communications with Wikileaks. It sounds quite nefarious, but I wonder if it is illegal is his communication with Wikileaks. What Roger Stone was indicted for? No the charge is stone lying to Congress about his interactions. With
Wikileaks, trying to tamper with witness testimony and an overall charge of obstruction of justice. As for the witness tampering charge that centres around stones interactions with someone named Randy
medico, who is a long time, New York, radio personality on again off again friend of stone,
Someone who did in fact seem to have direct connections to Julian Assange and Wikileaks and what the indictment details is that Roger Stone had several communications with critical trying to me.
Sure that critical told the same story to the house that Roger Stone had told and even suggesting that he should pull a quote frank pen tangibly
before the committee. Did you see the capital regime
I'll, be
also known as the guy fun, and that is a reference to
character in the godfather to who is called before Congress to testify about the mob and all of a sudden,
gets amnesia
here and now.
Were. You in any member crime organization ended by Michael Corleone,
ah
I was in the olive oil business with his father, but that was a long time ago
and why isn't mauler going after stone for anything other than the law for the actions he lied about it's hard to make a conspiracy case. The fact is that the emails
here, too, have been stolen before Roger Stone knew about them, so he didn't seem to have participated in the theft and he seemed to maybe be trafficking in information that was becoming public or was about to be public, and this is what his defenders and the president's defenders have pointed out that these are all crimes that happened after the fact he is not being charged with something that's at the bottom of this whole thing collusion conspiracy, etc, and this is what, of course, President Trump has fallen back on for some time by this thing is a weird strange: the crime is conspiracy to hack pollution is not a crime doesn't exist of conspiracy to further government right conspiracy act. That is the current. We don't know whether the Donald Trump engage in a conspiracy to act with the Russians didn't go and at its that's counter, intelligence investigation came to the conclusion no evident marine fuels.
Time and time again when it comes to the smaller investigation he is prosecutors, are charging people around the president with lie or tampering with a witness, we're doing something deceptive around their interactions with his own investigation, but not with actually colluding with Russia or coordinating with Russia or being involved in a conspiracy that involves Russia, which of course is what does investigation is really about? What do you make of that? If you want to look at it as the best case scenario for President Trump, it's that there's no original crime here, there's no collusion, there's no conspiracy, they recharge
because they were just lying to Congress. Today's surprise guilty plea by Michael Cohen, coincide in federal court that he lied to Congress. She says to support Mr Trumps Timeline
campaign, a George pop adopt with admitting he lie to the FBI, about its contacts with some of the FBI suspected of being a russian operative to cover for president tromp. But the worst case scenario is that they are lying to put something big. They were so concerned about, what's at the bottom of this story that they had to lie to keep investigators from getting there that's been. One of
Three that they had to lie to keep investigators from getting there. That's been one of the enduring mysteries of this entire story. Was there a grand conspiracy, or does this all add up to small individual acts? Individual contacts with Russians individual bit
This deals gone bad that individual people were trying to lie to cover up their own role. The fact that.
Dont know where Mahler is go
being an Mahler, only reveals the strategy in individual indictments means that we are still left with these kinds of questions and in its latest indictment we ve learned that Roger Stone, who has not been taken very seriously. All this time now seems to represent something quite important in office. Yes, in many ways, Roger Stone was this kind of cartoonish fee
you're, if this were a who done it. He be the obvious suspect that a reader would have long ago dismissed because he's too obvious, and yet he hears Roger Stone being charged with very serious crimes and for the first time we see Mahler show his hand that there really was this direct link between the Trump campaign of Wikileaks. But I think the bigger point is the question of how directly the Trump campaign officials were working with the original source of the information, and that is the russian government. When he leaks was passed through here, the russian government, russian Hackers- gave it to Wikileaks to distribute the real question at the end of the day,
It is not the communications necessarily with Wikileaks, but whether there was for knowledge about what Russia was doing and any direct communication with the Russians about their campaign to sabotage pillar equants political future more. Thank you very much. Thank you.
We'll be right back. We all shop online and we ve all seen that promo code field taunt as the check out, but thanks to honey. The free browser extension manually searching for coupon codes is a thing of the past, just download honey to your computer shop like normal click, the apply coupons button and watch the prices drop, its one hundred percent free to use and installs in just a few seconds get honey for free.
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You very much my fellow Americans. I am very proud to announce today than we have reached a deal to end the shutdown and reopen the federal government.
On Friday afternoon, just hours after the FBI rate of Roger Stones, home president trunk walked into the room garden of the White House and announced the tourism that he was temporarily ending the shutdown with new agreement from the Democrats to fund his border. I want to thank all of the incredible federal workers and their amazing families. The announcement came a day after two bills to reopen the government, one sponsored by Republicans the other by Democrats feel to pass in the Senate and as frustration over the shop.
Began to boil over in highly public and destructive ways, both clowns. Both sides should sit down and make it happen, polluting our president, clouding policy, traditional, it's not fair. Now he s age, I found it. Then I get paid and staff governments bounce
I will let you get it together by Friday, so many air traffic controllers have called and said that the Federal Aviation Administration grounded flights across the northeast hundreds of workers at the IRS refused to show up for work, and the director of the FBI Christopher Way had released a public message to his employees higher, be one where now five weeks and to miss paychecks into them
and I wanted to touch base with all of you again. Making some people stay home when they don't want to and making other show up without pay. It's mind, boggling, it's short sighted and it's unfair. It takes a lot to get me angry, but I'm about as angry as I've been in.
The long long time, unity among congressional Republicans, which had held for a month began to collapse with republican senators, including majority leader Mitch. Mcconnell telling vice president make pants that the president's shut down strategy was not working and needed to end immediately.
In his speech, the president, who has made the five point: seven billion dollars in funding for his wall a non go,
double condition for ending the shutdown and who repeatedly rejected democratic proposals to reopen the governor, while negotiations continue ultimately did
That restoring government to normal function for the next three weeks and promising took quickly payback federal workers who have missed paychecks since a shut down began, but if we don't get a fair deal from
Congress. The government will either shut down on February fiftieth again or I will use the powers afforded to me under the laws and the constitution of the United States to address this emergency Democrats and Republicans will enter formal negotiations this week to see if they can find a compromise on border security funding and on what constitutes a wall, a definition that has evolved
for the president himself. We do not need two thousand miles of concrete wall from seed is shiny, see we never did. We never propose that we never wanted that, because we have barriers
At the border, where natural structures are as good as anything that we can build their already there, they ve been there for millions of years that change in language and the decision to reopen the government with new funding for the wall. Do condemnation from conservatives like an Coulter who many believe helped pushed the president into a shut down in the first place, good NEWS for George Herbert Walker, Bush culture wrote on Twitter as of today he is no longer the biggest whip to ever serve as president of the United States. That's it for the daily. I'm like a Babar, see tomorrow
Sal con spent more than a decade building conic Adamite, the free remote learning platform. Now, all of a sudden, it seems custom made for today we realise is one of those moments where you look left. Look right. You're like I think this is us on a leash upper hosted. The pod cast net made all the difference, I'll be talking to some incredible people
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Transcript generated on 2020-06-27.