In America’s increasingly divided political landscape, it can be hard to imagine almost any voter switching sides. One demographic group has provided plenty of exceptions: white suburban women.

In the past four years, the group has turned away from the president in astonishing numbers. And many of them are organizing — Red, Wine and Blue is a group made up of suburban women from Ohio hoping to swing the election for Joe Biden. The organization draws on women who voted for the president and third parties in 2016, as well as existing Democratic voters.

In today’s episode, Lisa Lerer, who covers campaigns, elections and political power for The New York Times, speaks to white suburban women on the ground in Ohio and explores their shifting allegiances and values.

Guest: Lisa Lerer, a reporter for The New York Times covering campaigns, elections and political power.

For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily

Background reading:

• The white suburban voters the president needs to carve a path to victory have turned away from him, often for deeply personal reasons.