From the New York Times. I'm likeable borrow this the day to day Rudy Julia- was hired to defend President Trump against a special council. Russia investigation. So how is the Julian helped get Trump entangled in another investigations involving Ukraine, my colleague canvas, invest.

It's their estates October. Can I want to start by reading from some of your reporting back in May pleased by all means, you are a story that brutishly on eight, the president's personal lawyer was planning a trip to Ukraine in order to look into the vitamins things prussian. This is the quote. The Giuliani gives you, when you ask him about this. Work is doing in Ukraine says, there's nothing illegal about it. Somebody could say it's improper, and this is in foreign policy. I'm asking them to do an investigation that they're doing already and that other people are telling them to stop. I'm going to give them reasons why they shouldn't stop, because that Information will be very, very helpful to my client and may turn out to be helpful to my govern and then you right, Mr Julia

His involvement raises questions about whether Mr Tromp is endorsing and effort to push a foreign government to proceed with a case that could hurt a political opponent at home, So you have that story all the way back in May, so why only now that These revelations are prompting impeachment inquiry question I mean I think, we'd there stood a lot of the puzzle back then. But what we didn't understand was the degree to which the president himself was. Personally. Involved in pushing the Ukrainians to investigate and provide dirt on the president's political rivals. Some of that stuff had yet happen when we first addressed this issue and then only more recently have we learned about the vivid details of his involvement and those have been really eyebrow raising I want, if you could just start at the beginning,

of this story: well, you have to go back and look at Rudy Giuliani. He, of course, was the air of New York City, including during the September eleven two thousand one terrorist attacks, I'm here on behalf of a very grateful and very admiring city in saying how proud We are of the innocent men and women who were going about their lives seeking their part of the american dream when their lives were cut short by the ACT of Cowardly and his leadership during that horrible time earned him the reputation of a man. As mayor forever, The person touched by this unthinkable pledges. Than one man who, above all, as has been the beacon holding the city to get meeting And when he leaves office at the end of two thousand, one he's got this great reputation. And he's really riding high he's the mayor.

Who help Europe recover from nine eleven and right, and that made him a really marketable commodity as a consultant consulting on security issues, but he always kind of craved the political fight I was mayor. There was a sign on my desk. It read I'm responsible, that's the kind of common sense accountability. We need today, that's the kind of leadership we need in Washington and that's why I'm running for president, and so he thinks a break from this business to run. For president Two thousand I assassin democracy and Osama Bin Laden still making threats, world, where the next crisis is a moment away, America needs a leader was ready. I wrote a joy on it and I approve this message and that didn't go so well.

Julie, Oddy, has dropped out America's Mare, John to nine eleven it's over four months. Giuliani was the front runner for the republican nomination and then people started voting and he returns of the business and starts to do a lot of business. In Ukraine, and can why Ukraine? Ukraine is that has drawn a lot of western consultants and politicians in big names a place where there is a lot of money to be made from a handful of oligarchs and wealthy interests that are looking or legitimacy that they believe that they can get from, prominent Americans and there was no more prominent American, then ritually ani at that time period and what are you Cranes security needs when it comes to someone like WWW, Giuliani Ukraine has a lot of beads in this space. The most pressing concern for Ukraine is it

neighbor looming to the east, Russia overnight. Dozens of pro russian forces seized control at the International Airport and military airport and Ukraine's Crimea region a day after pro, russian gunman took over government buildings in the city and raise the russian flat and so what ukrainians are looking for and what Rudy Giuliani hasn't spades is both a reputation for being tough on crime. Tough on terrorism and also being able to represent sort of a de facto endorsement from the United States of America, which is something that is coveted and so important in Ukraine have support from the. U s in their efforts to stave off russian aggression in this truly on his relationship with Donald Trump around this period, so the relationship goes back more than two decades to wine. Tromp was actively developing real estate in New York and Giuliani was the mayor of course, and then they

kind of overlap in so circles and a little bit in political circles and then their relation? it takes a new turn and twenty sixteen, allowed the more establishment republicans restored. A keeping their distance from tromp, who is still seen, is kind of a toxic figure. Even as is closing in on it, economic nation Julie, I nonetheless decides to endorse them. I don't understand. Why do you say I'm ready Giuliani? I mean a lot in New York politics. I'm right Endorse Donald Trump aboriginally. I I mean a lot near politics. I endorsed I'll, try but not part of the campaign to understand what is at last, but it's kind of a loop warm endorsement at first, but he's really one of the early establishment republicans to get behind Trump and it pays off when tromp is elected. Giuliani is seen as a power broker

time. His name is even bandied about as a potential nominee for Secretary of State down. Ironically, one of the reasons why that he was passed over for some of these positions was that his foreign consulting work was seen as something of a liability ha, and so there was seen as something down, but nonetheless he stayed unimportant figure and tromp world, and when the Mahler investigation started, Rudy was eventually tat. As one of President trumps Lee Defensive I assume that there is no reason for this investigation. There never was a good reason for in the first place. This is just plain wrong. Is really on his stool doing business Overseas security clients, while he's represent the present as a lawyer, yes, in fact not only has he juggling both roles but its arguable that his role as the presidency only makes them more marketable and more coveted, as consulting by some of these foreign interests who see having someone who was closed,

who s president on their payroll, something that could be of enormous benefit and how does Giuliani, navigate that, as you say, it's kind of fraud, but is also an opportunity when he does it in an interesting way, which is that he continued traveling the world meeting with perspective clients even ass. He is representing the president and there are cases, including in Ukraine, where these two roles do seem to enter sacked. How so well, you have to back up and look at trumps obsession with Ukraine. Was the Democrats colluded whether Ukraine, so like alluded to Has had these theories going back to twenty. Sixteen that it was actually the Ukrainians who meddled in the twenty. Sixteen election not Right and they met on to help Bill Clinton and hurt him and

turns out. Regionally ADI was hearing some of the same stuff. I got information about three or four months ago that a lot of the explanation for how this whole phony investigation started will be in the Ukraine that there were a group of people in the Ukraine that will working to help Hillary Clinton, and so he became the perfect person to investigate these theories and use and develop them to try to undermine the Mahler investigation and the animals can happen in the next two to three months. We're gonna find out that there is a crime was committed, its call conspiracy with Ukrainians total total Catherine. Giants, scam, job and can, is there any validity to the Trump theory that has been picked up by Giuliani, that Ukraine was trying to hurt Trump and twenty sixteen and trying to assist

the Democrats? There is not really a simple answer to that question. Michael. There are certainly people in Ukraine who believe that there were ukrainian officials who were to support of available Clinton and that some of those officials may have acted in properly. In releasing this information about Paul man, Aforethought forced his resignation from the trunk campaigns. Now, that's it there are also some theories that Trump and Giuliani have floated that are completely bogus and have been definitively debunked. Those include the idea that it was Ukraine and not Russia, that actually did the hacking of democratic national committee and that Ukraine then sought to frame Russia make it appear as if Russia was working with the trunk campaign. We know from the Mahler investigation that all of that is completely wrong. So what Funds with this Giuliani investigation in Ukraine have been blessed by the president.

So Giuliani is reaching out to people in Ukraine has associates who are over. There he's exploring some of this stuff, and he says that in the process of poking around he comes across this other theory that might be equally beneficial to President tromp, and that involves the Biden and they are actively and Ukraine. Joe Biden was upon

Did the point man for Ukraine to three weeks later, his son Hunter was appointed to a position on the most corrupt agency or the most corrupt business in Ukraine. The theory is that Joe Biden, as vice president in his capacity as the Obama administration, is point person on Ukraine pushed the ukrainian government to get rid of a prosecutor who was widely regarded as corrupt, not because this prosecutor was corrupt than it was in the interests of the United States to help Ukraine root out corruption, but rather because this prosecutor represents a threat to an oligarch who owned a gas company that was paying Joe Biden Son Hunter. Biden as a board member, but is there anything to this Biden theory that Giuliani is cultivating. There is no evidence that Joe Biden push the ukrainian government the farthest prosecutor, because it would help his son or the company that was paying him as a born member. Now that's Edward.

Everything in Ukraine is not quite that simple and fast the people around that company were relieved when our prosecutor was fired and that's because they thought he was holding open. The possibility of investigate visions of this company and the oligarchy in order to be able to solicit a bribe to get him to stand down, which is unfortunately, kind of the way that the ukrainian prosecutors challenge judicial system work. So what is Giuliani do next to try to actually prove these grand theories based on what feel like these teeny, tiny crumbs of fact and suspicion. Sir Rudy is working, including with Ukrainians, to try to gain traction on some of this stuff is working with associates of him. And they are gathering records. They get him on the phone with some prosecutors and then finally in January of this year, Rudy gets me

in New York, with the top ukrainian prosecutor, a guy by the name of Europe, let Sancho we understand that this meeting transpired over the course of a day or two with multiple said, since many hours. Long and Rudy is so enthusiastic about the information that lets Anko is providing to him than a one point. Rudy actually picks up the phone and calls Trump and starts debris then what is hearing why? What is so exciting will Rudy thinks he's found a powerful ukrainian partner to pursue these matters and when I say pursue the matter, I don't just mean to provide him dirt. I mean actually mean going forward with investigations in Ukraine and to some of these matters, and that's quite notable because in twenty seventeen, this same prosecutor Yuri, let's Anko, had actually closed investigation.

And into the oligarch who own the gas company that employed hunter bite and an end to the company itself, and so it's quite a notable turn about that. This prosecutor is now willing to pursue these investigations. That could be of huge benefit to President Trump how we understand why a ukrainian prosecutor would ever want to do this kind of favor for Giuliani and were present drum? Well there a couple theories on that both of them have at their heart ukrainian politics that run falling at the time the president was running for real action. This is the president who appointed let's anchor was seen as a patron of let's Anko, and it was doing very well, and so some of his allies thought that if he were able to

Ro President Trump a bone, give President Europe something that he wanted. President Europe might reciprocate and signal some support for the ukrainian President, but second derelict. If the president ended up losing, let sank. I was looking for some powerful allies in the United States who might be willing to go to back for him with the new president and say hey this guy. This prosecutor, let's Anko, is good. You should keep him, and so there is some thinking that that was motivating. Let's go to get into bed with Rudy. So the understanding after Giuliani, meets with its Anko. Is that lead Sancho would be pushing the investigations inside Ukraine that President Trump wants and that President tromp would help lids ngos boss get reelected

president of Ukraine. So there would be no something incredibly, that's right. So what is actually happening while its Anko goes back to Ukraine and in fact it does take some steps towards pushing forward These investigations and issues what is known in Ukraine as a notice of suspicion and to the oligarchy who owned the gas company on board Hunter Bide and sat, and It was enough to make Rudy feel pretty good about what was going on, and what about the other side of the understanding that Trump would help. Lutes Ngos, boss. Yeah that didn't really pan out so watches some of the allies of the president and hope they never really got the full throated support of president trompe that they thought that they might get if they gave tromp everybody Giuliani what they were seeking in terms of pushing forward these matters, that

prompt and Julia Onawandah investigated and, let's echoes boss, the president goes down to defeat in a landslide What does that election result mean for Trump and for Giuliani? What is bad news for them because they had developed this relationship with this prosecutor? Who was going to pursue, the matter is that they wanted to see, pursue and suddenly this prosecutors job. Is in jeopardy. In fact, on election night, the President elect sick, knows that he wants to get rid of lead, sank, come so Giuliani and tromp are left scratching there has trying to figure out. Is there a way for them to continue this effort and they ultimately end up, taking a series of steps that led us to where we are today, which is an impeach, an inquiry yap

I'll be right back. We all shop online, a lot and finding promo code. That work is an easy unless you use honey, the free browser extension back Paypal that scans the internet for the best promo code and automatically adds it to your cart, just download honey to your computer shop like normal click, the apply, coupons button and watch the prices drop its one. Percent free to use and installs in just a few seconds, get honey for free, a joint honey dot com, Slash daily, that's, join honey, dot com ash daily is Maggie Haber. Men on one of the White House, correspondence for the New York Times end a sometimes daily guest. I remember a time in the spring of twenty seventeen when President Tromp had been trying and failing to get a bill through the house that would repeal President Obama's healthcare bill and I

spoke to him by phone after asking for time with him, and I tweeted afterwards about how he sounded on that call and very promptly was attacked by the president's critics on the left other times. I will be attacked by the president's supporters on the right and it really isn't my job to try to please one side or the other, we're not the Tipp of the spear for any political party or any one view it Sarge to do what we can to find the most distilled version of the truth that there is. This is what we do at the New York Times. Every day is try to find that most This interpretation of the truth, and it requires resources and support and its Wyatt a vital that people subscribe to the times. Can one Giuliani Trump do in the face of this pretty big setback in their efforts to get Ukraine to conduct these investigations that they want. Well, they start trying to make a pretty clear to the new president, the Lansky and to the people around him. There

this is something that they feel pretty strongly about and want to see continue in. This starts our reporting suggest on election night, my my throat Whaley fat redid it together on the night that Zalewski is triumphant in this huge landslide. He gets a call from President Robin is the typical congratulatory call, but then, at the end of the call Trump expressed, this commitment to work together with president lacks the landscape and the ukrainian people to implement reforms that strengthen democracy, increase prosperity and root out corruption, and that's it required by the way from the White House read out of the car. And what do you make of that lastline yeah. Why that is significant is because for people who have been following this on board sides of the Atlantic. They know that when the tramp folks say corruption, what

really mean is that they want an investigation of the Biden. And then a hundred by his work for this gas company and also this idea that Ukrainians acted improperly to meddle in the twenty sixteen election on behalf of Hillary Clinton. So even just that word career Then it is now widely understood when raised by the Trump folks to mean we want these investigations, and you think Zalewski would have understood that to mean what you just described. I think you were because his people have been following this and they were in communication with America. Who were telling them that that's what this means and what's your sense of what this new ukrainian President Zaleski is making of trumpet how open he is to helping the president, I think that once it becomes clear what tromp wants, it becomes clear that the people around the landscape,

he's in a horrible position, really a no win position. He knows that he needs to keep in the good graces of the United States President, because you is so dependent on assistance, both military citizens and other forms of assistance and support from the United States and if he refuses rebuffs president dropper Rudy Giuliani on what they want in terms of these investigations. He knows a risk alienating the? U S president and potentially undermining that relationship on other hand, he knows that if he gives the present and every joy on, what they want. It would run SK, alienating Democrats and, most notably by then? Who could be the next president of the United States, and that would be a real bad position for the Lansky as well. If the new President, United States is one that he is already poison the Well

So this is a very unenviable position for a brand new president of Ukraine to begin. Yes, it is so what is the linsky end up doing Zalewski, basically to avoid committing either way. These still has yet to appoint a prosecutor general to replace let Sancho who is the data that he wants to get rid of, but he says: well, you just have to wait. Until we have this new prosecutor, who's gonna come in and assessed things and then they'll, make the decisions. Well, that does not That is why Rudy, who want some kind of signal, sooner Rudy Giuliani, is going on a fishing trip as an information gathering mission. In Ukraine, as our Rudy does within three weeks of Zalewski s election. He plans a trip to Ukraine where he intends to try to meet with a Lansky to push for the Lansky to make some show of support for these investigations. President's personal attorney heading to Eastern Europe to encourage it

In government to press ahead with an investigation or to that, may very well damage political rival of his clients, so let's ass the man himself, Why are Rudy Giuliani mayor of great to have you with us that enable our usual so that right, as to your reporting back in, may I want to read something from the New York Times month. Surprise you that they're, not fans of this, my god you're. The giuliani- is about to take this trip to Ukraine to push these investigations thread I mean the reality. Is that I'm not? I wasn't going there to encourage them to start an investigation. They have an investigation, they have an investigation of how ukrainian help the Dnc and Hilary operators to get in some cases falls dirty. Information about the Trump campaign and what happens without reasonably well

we reported it generates. Quite a backlash. Abiding campaign claims that there was no wrong doing and Democrats pound primarily from governments, but also from foreign policy experts sort of across the spectrum of investigation designed to affect one of the candidates. They fear the most Joe Biden and reprehensible. Ok I've decided share and I'm not gonna, go and regionally cancels it so in cancelling the trap it Those like Giuliani, understands at this point that the path he's on is problematic. As you know, I think, he's conceding that is controversial But what we now know is that in the weeks and months after that cancel trip, but Giuliani, an tromp took several steps to continue to pressure the Ukrainians to take up. These

best negations. First, in MID July, we have tromp ordering the delay and review of some assistance to the Ukrainians hundred ninety one million dollars worth and then about a weekly We now know about this July, twenty fifth call between Tromp and Zalewski, where tromp starts off by talking about all that? The? U S does for Ukraine and then leads into pushings Lansky to work with regionally and the attorney General Bill bar on these investigations, including, once into the violence and thereafter de in Ukraine and even goes further Just as there is no confusion, it says and he's upset, because you had this prosecutor who was very good, who wish down and that's really unfair, and he says in a lot of people- are talking about that. Well, that prosecutor wisdom

The about is none other than Yuri. Let's Anko, the prosecutor within Rudy Giuliani had been working to push these investigations so Trump seemed to be saying in reference to Lukashenko? Is you should really keep that guy? pretty gray? Why are you being tough on him right and at that point, let's Anko had not yet been replaced, although the Lansky had indicated that he intended to replace him it was so much of your reporting led right up to that phone call back in, may you understood Giuliani was doing this, you understood from seem to be supporting it, and then you have this call yeah. We felt like we understood all the pieces here and we felt like we understood what was being communicated, but we thought that was being communicated with a lot of wings and nods and traditional language of diplomacy? So it was quite star

The sea. It laid out by President chop no less in such very specific detail in this July. Twenty fifth phone call, some degree mind boggling, because both tromp adds Lansky are sort of familiar with all the issues in play here. So much of this, could be done more effectively and more subtly without coming out of making these arguments, and I couldn't help but think, as I read through this reconstructed, transcript that, like so much of what Rob was saying. I've heard Red Giuliani, say an almost these exact terms. The way that jobs, language evoked rubies was quite striking to me. What do you make of that dynamic between these two, but it sort of ironic that really was brought on as defence attorney to help him navigate his way through the Mahler investigation, and instead he quickly branch down and became sort of an opposition researcher and campaign attack, dog and even a clause. I,

The poor man engaging with foreign governments in a way that has led, tromp right into the next crisis of his presidency in many ways, potentially worse crisis that has now at the centre of the impeachment agree. I wonder can if you think that, Giuliani could have pursued. All of these theories could have been digging around Ukraine asked the way he was in a That would never have let us down this path of impeachment. Possibly. I think that he certainly could have pursued some of these things, making it clear that he was acting in his personal passively as the president's personal attorney. I not acting on behalf of the President himself or the administration that probably would have still raised

goes back in Washington. I think we probably still would have had congressional investigations, but the minute the president tromp takes up this case personally and uses the power of the presidency to try to pressure on our government to do is medical bidding at a time when this government is facing a very real and existential threat from Russia, our common future That is why we ve crossed the Rubicon and got to the point where there are legitimate questions about abuse of office that, under this impeachment inquiry. Thank you. Thank you on Wednesday. During a visit to ITALY, Secretary of State, like pump Hale acknowledged he was listening in on the telephone call

during which President Trump pressure, the President of Ukraine, to investigate Joe Biden and his son as well as on the book. I was on the phone call, the funk, always in the context of now it s a bit of secretary of State for common on a year and a half. I know precisely what the american policy is with respect to you right, it's been remarkably consistent campaign. We had previously expressed ignorance of the com raising questions about whether he misled the public about his wrong soon after during NEWS Conference in Washington, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Adam ship, warned that the leaders of the impeachment inquiry would soon subpoena documents related to the Ukraine call directly from the White House, which has resist

it cooperating. So they just need to know that, even as they try to underline our ability to find the facts around the president's effort took worse a foreign leader to create dirt that he can use against the political opponent that they will be strengthening the cat on obstruction if they behaved badly leader on Wednesday. Speaking from the White House, President Tromp denounced chief, accusing him without evidence of treason and revived his theory. That Democrats had collaborated with Ukraine to hurt him during the twenty sixteen campaign. What the Democrats didn't want to sixteen was corrupt and, let's see what happens there more concerned with at them, with me and impeachment there. They tried to hide what maybe it's coming. I let the president said it was a matter of time before.

Information emerged that showed Democrats were engaged in a cover up, as they know their guilt. These have arrived there much more worried about that, would lay back in these uncertain times. One medical aspects in great care rate to the comfort of your home, get help from our medical team. Twenty four seven over video chat or book a remote visit with their primary care fighter for a time that works best. If you think your ex in sync. Symptoms were making covered. Nineteen and antibody testing available around the country, simply enroll for free thirty day membership and will help you find it has to site in the area. We ve got your back visit one medical dot com to learn more use. What else you need to know

The times reports that advisers to president trouble have altered the rules for choosing delegates to next year's republican national convention. To ensure that there are no dissenting speeches at the closely watched event in several states. Republican party officials have changed the world so that Republicans, interest, who used to try can no longer send delegates to the convention where they could theoretically speak out against The advisor said that the president prefers a convention free from political conflict

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