From the new york times, I'm sabrina tavern, you see- and this is the daily the star like the satellite communication company owned by elon musk, has quietly and quickly encircled the earth today, My colleague Adam such mariano other stuff we have starlings rise. Its rebel, jerry promise. and on the implications of one controlling at all

it's Wednesday august. Nine out of welcome to the show. Thank you haven't is so Adam. Tell us where this reporting that you ve done on starling start for part of it just geeky cured. a city? I learned about this technology, which is centuries satellites orbiting. The earth which are beaming internet connection, down to about anywhere on earth. It just seems like kind of amazing technology particularly when you think of all the parts of the earth that don't have internet connection and then in fact it is, is controlled by elon musk. We

You learn from tesla, of course, and now from his ownership of twitter. That's acts to you ex sorry and his In his social media, antics and outbursts in petty fight city gets into online, but it was fascinating to see that even more so he is controlling this new, incredibly important area of communication and satellite internet and so a group of colleagues- and I wanted to understand the scale of this and we started reporting it out. We found a database managed by a researcher in hawaii and what we found that there are more than eight thousand If satellite spinning around the earth right now and more than half of those more than forty five hundred. are controlled by elon musk in his company. So one company- I mean one man in fact is responsible for fifty percent of the satellites in space. Elon musk is like the mayor of space exam

and the more you learn about it. Is you start to see the geo political consequences in other important ways in which this technology, the influence in the world? Ok, so I definitely want to go there Adam and we want to get to the implications of must controlling veto chunks if the world's internet, but before we do, let's start at how he came to dominate so much of the sky around the planet. Weird that story start this starts more than twenty years ago and we need every wind of debt and remember that elon musk is not the person that we know now. At this period of time,. he was part of a group called the paypal mafia who built a paypal, the payment, company, which eventually sold to ebay fer a great deal of money so that the initial source of his wealth. He is also fascinated by space and

de as of being an inner planetary species and colonizing mars. All these far fetched things, and so I spoke to one british engineer, nay, martin Sweden, who got together with mosque in two thousand and one, and he described getting a message from an acquaintance. He said I have somebody you should meet. He wants to put a greenhouse on mars greenhouse on mars, okay and, of course, this that being elon mask and they get to talking and what sweden in his company surrey technology was quite good at it. Bela being these smaller satellites, so unsteadily His big hulking satellites, the size of a bus they get lost far into space. These were much smaller satellites which are less expensive to develop and they can sit in this low earth orbit, which is closer to the planet, which makes

unification, whether it's an internet signal now or some sort of observation work for environmental commercial businesses. It makes all that vast, ok, so sweet is developing these smaller satellites that can orbit the earth at lower altitude and musk. Has this general interest in space wind? The idea for starling come into focus, we don't know exactly when he had this grand plan, but Other companies, in the ninety nine these and in the two thousands had tried, saddle internet by almost all of them went bust and the reason for that it is incredibly expensive to launch a satellite into space and to make this work. You need lots of them So imagine you right now in new york, there satellite whizzing by overhead and is one

those past you it hands the signal off to another one. That's trailing not too far behind. They are sending that signal down to earth to something called a terminal which is like a giant wifi hotspot to spread out that internet signal in so you need these things to be whizzing by you in new york or somebody else in antarctica to be able to provide that sort of high speed, low latency internet. So it's kind of like a relay race right, like they're handing off from one to the next to the next, and if there are too few of them, then they drop the baton and lose the signal. Yes, so imagine this long,

between satellites. Therefore, the signal would be inconsistent with not be as strong and at this point what was he aims for what was the business strategy? After defying all conventions in the banking industry, the auto industry and the aerospace industry? Aid on mosque now plans to do the same with the collective at sea industry. You must says the opportunity is massive, the revenue potential of watching satellites serves in space station were not that's in taps out around three billion dollars a year, but I think providing broadband is is more like an order of magnitude, more say, get something like three percent of the overall global internet market. That would be at least thirty billion dollars a year, the world's himself, an insatiable appetite for bandwidth,

and so the potential is vast, whether or not they didn't get. There is still an open question: gotta, ok, so a huge potential market here. But if you're musk to make this work, you need a lot of satellite in launching that is expensive. So how did he solve this? Cost problem was never a foregone conclusion that he would, but he had this advantage there he kathleen into- is around the same time he's talking to Martin. Sweden must found a company called sex in two thousand and two I think we're at the dawn of a new era, and it's it's. I think it's going to be very exciting. What we're hoping to do with spacex is to push the envelope and provide a reason, people to be excited and inspired german- and this was a private spacefleet. The idea for one essentially SK was becoming a private racketeer disapproval.

People on mars thing exactly, but this the company that almost put him into bankruptcy- and this is- the time when tesla was also struggling, so superior in life when muss is sort of not assuredly gonna be on this sort of billionaire less steady is today, but eventually by late twenty fifteen early twenty sixteen spacex has a major breakthrough in a breakthrough. Is their rockets could land on earth and be reusable so most rockets. They go into space when they come back. essentially disintegrate, but here they could come back in land and then

we re use, and so, if you are creating a satellite internet company, were you need hundreds thousands of these things put up into orbit in this a key key advantage, essentially have and express train to take up these satellites sometimes doesn't at a time and to release them in orbit income, down and then eventually do it again, so he cracks the code. This is the solution. to the cost problem of needing to send so many satellites up into space right he's able to do it at all gale. That's the envy of others who have long tried to do the same and in twenty nineteen

is when they launched their first, sixty or so satellites into orbit have Bobby been, being very, very quickly now they're up to more than four thousand five hundred, and now have more than one point: five million customers They are available in more than fifty countries and territories. So, in a relatively short period of time, they have gone from the zero to sixty. Yet while all of this is going on you, don't you heard much more about twitter or acts or whatever it's called now in an tesla companies like starling really was not our radar yeah, I mean for awhile, myself included. I kind of considered it as a kind of a The EU almost have you on my skin and perhaps at my own ignorance but where the real power this technology and musk

Troll of it really Sefton focus and I started paying much closer attention. Was the war in ukraine we'll, be right back. Hi, I'm megan warm the director of photography at the new york times, what can do a lot of different things? It can connect us. It can bring us to places we ve never been before it can.

Actually a story in a universal visual language. But one thing that all these photographs have in common is that you know they don't just come out of the ether. We spend a lot of time, anticipating news stories working with the best photographers across the globe. These are photographers who have spent years mastering their technical craft developing their skills as visual chroniclers of our world. You know getting certified as a scuba, diver and learning how to shoot underwater or to document finite change or of tremendous cardiovascular training in order to ski on the slopes next to the limping athletes. This is an effort that takes tons of time and consideration and resources. All of this is possible only because of new york times subscribers, if you're not a subscriber. Yet you can become one at an. Why times dot com slash subscribe, so Adam tell me about the rules store link has played in the worn ukraine. Starling has played a massive rule in ukraine. It had happened

immediately. So on the first, of the invasion. There is a satellite system, that the ukrainian military had that way taken down to a site. attack This was later attributed to russia is so that take it out, they needed to fight an alternative and they needed to find it fast and the digits minister, there are you Guy named better off, he is attacked guy. He had worked intact, war going into government and he's kind of a mosque admirer, Even before the war he had been trying to get in touch with space, eggs and star link to use these services without any success in so after the old system that they're using is taken down.

He decides to reach out over social media, which is sort of a preferred form of communication. from us as they know, and so they tweet try instagram there even trying to talk to one their. If anybody knows you on- must mother mother. Yes, they know they they're trying to get this message to mask that they need starling. Further efforts to fight back against russia. The soon after this twitter post starts to go viral mosque, reaches out to him and says that start he's been activated in ukraine in that they will help and soon after starling terminals begin to arrive in ukraine, and they have an immediate and profound effect. Given to the military and used at the front lines for intelligence.

gathering in planning and eventually drone strikes. There used at heart, Holes they are used by the government. They were particularly import during bombardments. That word he came down. The country's energy infrastructure. It became has better off said to me a century, the blood of their communication work, so I don't have to tell you the first time I ever heard about starling was in ukraine and everybody. I talk to particularly soldiers, adored elon musk, because of stock and because of this internet connection, I mean we interviewed soldier in the eyes of stall steel plant and cut off from the world. He didn't know that with survive his last phone call to his wife. What he believed to be his last fungal to his wife was on a mosque connection, and you know

people. There knew him by name he was a household word and they loved him because he provided this. You know way the people could communicate with their loved ones when they thought they might never talk to them again. Absolute, wait. I mean it's an incredible technology and it really is the two sides of elon musk. I mean on the one side. He is this genius innovator. He breaks through conventional thinking. He does things that people don't think is possible, but on the flip side he is also very combustible. dear unpredictable and having him in the middle of all. This began to raise some concerns, so what were the concerns raised would happen It was really last fall around last september when some of these problems began to emerge. First was the issue around payment

Oh, this is an expensive technology to operate, and questions began to come forward about who was gonna pay for it, elon musk tweeted in September that, They could no longer continue paying for this, so mosque says we can't, for all of ukraine's internet anymore, which I guess in some ways makes sense, but why, It change that, like what was going on it was becoming similarly clear at the time, how important? our link was to the ukrainian army in mosque. According to the people, we ve spoke two was growing concerned about his technology being sorted centre to the war fighting and there was some comments made by her russian official at one point, that star link

be a justifiable military target, essentially because of the role that is playing so musket. of getting more than a market for here right like he thought he was helping with a bit of internet and suddenly becomes veto a potential military target So we must begins making these threats about not being able to compete. You providing it overpayment. It really get people's attention so much so that the Biden administration ass, one of the top pentagon officials. One call to step in and mediate and so in early october he gets on the phone when musk to talk about starling access in ukraine and must tell him that he does. like the star link, is being used and not just for ukraine to defend itself, but now it's also being used for these kind of offensive operations to regain territory in that can cause

significant military casualties for the russians and must doesn't want to be kind of an inch. to war in this sort of way. Mr call he makes a counter argument and more people in ukraine are going to suffer if star, is to pull out in. So although no public announcement was made, the service has largely continue to work in ukraine. but the payment issue is really just one problem, so I dont went out was going wrong The other main issue was just where starling internet work, so as russia, in ukraine. Battled back and forth over territory in the east, starling was constantly having to decide which areas the service should work and where it should not. So the service would not work in areas. They were controlled by roy and so is the ukrainians were pressing forward to try and retake that land like

the city of her sewn, for instance. He would find that the system in some cases would not work in some people said that, even load them down in. So when you have these big fluid said, questions on the battlefield, starling and where it worked, became central to it. So, in other words, the internet was often these russian controlled areas. View unions desperately needed internet in order to take back these territories. Didn't have it so really exactly at its moment of need. Ukraine didn't have what starling could have provided exactly, and you have a situation where star link this private company becomes a third party in this cause, it. Is the ukrainians press forward their having to communicate back with this american company about where they need the systems to work? So we talk to people who they described

communicating back with officials it star lincoln in some instances, even trying to message with elon musk to get the service to work in these different areas is so it just shows how central star link has been to the war in ukraine. We kind of amazing, like musk. A private american citizen based in texas, is literally in the middle of ukrainian we're planning like helping draw the battle lines, it's really extraordinary and it really remained a alive issue for some time and eventually washington in the defense department had to get involved. So a deal that was announced in june gives the pentagon the ability to set where star link service works for several hundred of these terminals, So what that means is there is a sort of subset of starling devices. They give. The ukrainian much wider latitude to use the service

if they feel they need kind of taking out starlink in elon, musk their power and setting where it will work. I mean ukraine, as I'm hearing you talk about it. Adam is a very powerful case study right of just how important this technology can be, and what it means. If so much of the power of the technology is held in the hands of one man, I mean it's a public good writer. We usually we think of a public good, is something that's provided by government. But in this case it's a private citizen. and that's pretty remarkable and also kind of concerning yeah, exactly you and mustard, something that perhaps government should have been doing and could have done but didn't insulin. have a situation in which this commercial technology is providing thing that ukraine could not get anywhere else.

and so you seeing other countries now seeing the power that it had in ukraine begin to grapple with that right. Other country you're looking at ukraine and wondering whether they would also have to contend with elon musk, absolutely in taiwan is perhaps the best example of that as a country that has a looming threat from China which see he's taiwanese territory as a tone. I want internet infrastructure primarily comes from several undersea cables, which connects to the rest of the world. and so this is very vulnerable to sabotage and starling here would seem to be a perfect backup but people there, because a villon muss connections to china. His deep deep business ties are very reluctant to

partner with him, and we spoke to one member of parliament whose involved in crafting this policy, and he went as far as to say that it could be a trap while potential trap. That's a pretty strong words. So for that person for that taiwanese minister, the ukraine example was very the questioner tail sounds like absolutely in every country fees it differently. China has its own concerns about stir link in china, where the internet is heavily censored and regulated, Said in an interview last year that officials in beijing had made him swear that he would not turn on starling there presumably because it would provide some way around censorship. Controls more situation in IRAN where mosque can provide. Did the small amount of starling access during some thai government protests by rain, in government said that star link was violating their sovereignty in so

You know all in these different geo political hotspots. You have the issue of internet connectivity in starling coming up, which is a pretty extraordinary placed it before this company that, as a five years ago, I was just dear, and you must have. I mean these countries have a legitimate concern right, but on the other hand, must has a big and growing share of this pretty crucial new market. So you don't. Will countries just have to live with his mercury illness because. She's. The monopolised he's far away ahead of any one else right now, but others are coming. Amazon has plans, to build a competing service. China is going to be putting things thousands of satellites of its own up to provide the internet service european union is put aside.

Of dollars to do something similar. But mosque is very far ahead, while they're all talking about doing this, his rockets continue to go up and space and put more and more satellites in sir At this rate, it's going to take considerable time, perhaps years before anybody could even come close to matching what the I've done right. So in the meantime the world does gotta make. With the fact that this revolutionary in quite vital technology owned by the mercury, all quite truly business man, absolutely and in this case, is literally impossible to separate the invention from the inventor is open time being you on mosque in what he's built is all we got and it will be

the foreseeable future adam thing Thank you for having me we'll be right back. Here's what you should know today on tuesday, the supreme court I'm perennially revived the binding administrations, regulations of so called ghost guns. that can be bought on line and assembled into untraceable. Who made firearms the twenty twenty two regulation required sellers do obtain licences, mark their products with serial numbers and conduct background checks, chief justice, John Roberts, injustice, Amy coney, bear it joined the court's three liberal members in a five to four vote. That will mean

The regulation will remain in place while a challenge move forward in the courts. And voters in ohio rejected a bid by conservatives to make it harder to amend the state constitution, a significant victory for abortion right supporters who were trying to stop the Republican controlled legislature from sharply restricting the procedure. The vote drew an uncharacteristically high number of voters, first sleepy summer election in an off here and was seen as a potential barometer of the political climate going into twenty twenty four initial results show the measure losing by roughly three to two margin. Today's episode

produced by luke sandridge like an ostrich intervening with help from air, cookie and jessica chuck. It was edited by Michael, been long with help from page cow it John ketchup contains provisional music by dan powell, Ilusha b to marian Lozano and diana Wallis, and was engineered by Alyssa. Moxley are thin. Music is bite on burke and then mantra of wonder That's it for the daily I'm sabrina taverns, see tomorrow, the.