For the New York Times. I'm likeable borrow. This is a daily. Today. The Senate begins hearing arguments this afternoon in the latest each man trial of Donald Trump. I spoke with my colleague Jim Gutenberg about what too speck from prosecution, The defence, it's Tuesday February knife, so Jim this is our second Senate in Intra Donald Trump and as a result, if we don't really need to explain to lesters how impeachment works as a problem, because we just went through it not very long ago, so

We want to start by asking you to explain the case that will be made here on both sides And I wonder if you could start by reading from the article of impeachment that was adopted by the House of Representatives simply serves as the indictment against Trump in this trial chemical in a lot of ways. This is a much simpler case right because in the last impeachment it was complicated it dealt with. Officials in Ukraine is far wooden. Lay there were lots of India now tat. You had to really get into the weeds to understand at this very simple: did the president's words lead to chaos on this critical day for the american democracy and its only one article than peach meant, and it has to do with what? place before our very eyes on January. Sixth, let me read from this article cool president Trump. Gravely

danger, the security of the United States and its institutions have government. He threatened the integrity of the democratic system, interfered with the peaceful transition of power and imperilled a co equal branch of government. He thereby betrayed his trust as president to the manifest injury of the people of the United States. That's effectively the case. So, given that charge, how do you expect the Democrats? The prosecutors in this trial to prove that happened that he incited this right. What will their arguments look like as they take to the floor of the Senate starting on Tuesday morning, while they ve laid this out in the trial brief, and they are not only focusing on what he said or did on January, sex, which is vitally important to their case, announcing it isn't, but they pull back the lens em,

They are arguing is that over the course of weeks, if not months, the president was building this case of a stolen election in such an overwhelming way, making the argument so ubiquitous that he led his followers to draw the conclusion that the only thing they could do was to take matters into their own hands to do and the democracy and Jim. Where does that timeline start for the demo, ass in this trial. If, as you say, they are really zooming out and back. It goes all the way back to well before the election well before the election right and he is asked where he is wrong in this election. Will you commit here today for a peaceful transfer power after the elections, whether he would commit to making sure there is a peaceful transfer of power? And he said

As I have to see what happens? You know that I've been complaining very strongly about the ballots. Annabella, sir disaster organ have to see what happens you so starting in the summer Democrats will content Trump begin seeding this idea that he might not accept the results of the election and that there is very likely to be fraud. Corruption, abuse in the election, not only that mail voting is susceptible to corruption, but that tromp is so popular for the pandemic. The economy is doing so. Well that the only way tromp could lose because the only way we're gonna lose. This election is if the election is rigged. Remember that The only way we're gonna lose its election was we. If there is corruption, only corruption could be Trump. If he loses that's the only donation, and that was an argument that he made for a very long time as well.

so what's the next point in this time line for the Democrats. The next big moment comes during the presidential debates and Once again, during this debate, WWW pledged tonight that you will not declare victory until the election has been independently sort of five president says he will not go along with concealing the election of its effects, and why? I am one hundred percent on board, but of icy tens of thousands of balance being manipulated. I can go along with a very big deal at the time. We knew what the big deal at the time and in fact there is a second very important moment at the debate. Where he's then asked www urge your supporters to stay calm during this extended period, not to engage in any civil unrest and WWW pledged, he urged his supporters to stay calm during, what's going to be a complicated process of I'm in boats will they not engage in any civil unrest and

While remember this moment, the President and Chris Wallace go back and forth over this. Are you willing to lie to condemn whites and promises and militia robes and to say that they need to stand down? and not add to the violence and a number of things- studies as we saw in Canosa and as we have seen import. Let me show you one area of epic like, but it has a. I would say, almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right. are you? What are you? Are you signed up willing to do anything? I want to see what you gonna do it, sir, and Chris Wireless mentions the prow boys well known, could import western chauvinist militant group and the President

says I brought my boys stand back and stand by, but I'll tell you what else we will hear this again and again stand back and stand by in addressing the proper place, its absolute killer line as far as the Democrats are concerned, in their case pocket what's next, while next is a moment in late September, that was sort of loss and all the news of the time, and that is when Biden, boss branded with the Biden Harris Logo is driving down the highway in Texas and it suddenly comes across caravan of Trump supporters in pickup trucks flying the Trump flag, these pickup trucks and automobiles start swarm

the bus and driving very fast and trying to cut it off, and they they almost run it off the road running and managing areas and their great outrage across both parties initially, but then the president instead, basically goads M along, he is celebrated. He tweets stylize video, as the democratic brief describes it of the caravan and captain. To quote I love Texas with an exclamation days later, because them patriots who could quote did nothing wrong so again at a moment where people could have been hurt. This is really a dicey moment and he is fully endorsing it. Then we get to the election an election. Night flash early morning of the following day and what the president says at this moment is going to be very critical to the whole campaign that follows and therefore critical to this impeachment trial,

and that is set at two hundred and thirty in the morning. Thank you very much. The president is live, millions and millions of people voted for us tonight and a very sad group of people is trying to disenfranchise that group of people and we won't stand for. We will ask his watch to flee now mind you. He knew this was going to happen ahead of time. We know he knew this. We all knew was going to happen ahead of time. The network's had prepared their coverage in their viewers and we had prepared our readers. This is how this counts. Gonna go, but the president comes out. you thirty in the morning in the EAST room and just lays down a marker that he one and that this is an

unbelievable fraud and the reason that this refrain that he makes it to thirty in the morning is so important because it will form the basis of everything that follows president trample repeat this over and over again, I one like by a lot. This is a fraud, on the american public. This is an embarrassment to our country. We we're getting ready to win this election. Frankly, we did when the seller and importantly, at the same time, there is a legal strategy built around an argument of fraudulent election that his lawyers begin pursuing and those lawsuits as they keep losing in court? You would think- and I think people thought this at the time of these cases are they're losing and they have their meaningless. In fact, they were doing something very important, and the important

they were doing was they were sanctifying, at least in the pr campaigns for trumped supporters, that this was somehow official detour official court documents that we're alleging that this fraud was so bad. It's treated as ok, that's very important as we go forward. Let's remember that lawsuits appeared to be coming from everywhere. It wasn't just a trump campaign. Filing law suits. It might be some state legislator in Michigan? It might be some a bolder and Georgia with consummate. Have you, but all of these cases somehow or another are being filed by lawyers with Trump connections. Even perhaps the most important case of all in this endeavour- and that's the Supreme Court filing that the attorney general taxes can packs two makes seek

to have four states votes thrown out, because in his argument, Texas voters have been defrauded here, because their votes from the gated by these unfair votes in the other states and enact are reporting showed that that lost it was drafted by attorneys close to tromp, who them were looked for, an attorney general who would be willing to carry it forward. In this case, it was compaction of Texas, who also by the way, had its own legal problems developing and might have been in need of a pardon, so don't gotta very likely to argue that even It seemed that this public pain and this legal efforts were not derived from the president or the White House. This evidence keeps bringing things back and closer to present from they do not want this to be about the party any opportunity to make this about president trumped. They will make that because, by the way,

a lot of their jury, is in that party, so whenever they can bring it back to the man himself, they will do that. But I just want to make another point about the Supreme Court case, because I think it is important and I think it was a lost to us at the time a little bit then that's that's what President Tromp was building around the Supreme Court case and a lot of Media allies and party allies were building with the Supreme Court. Will do the right thing here that if you are now a passionate follower of president trumped, you Billy Everything is telling you, so he is telling you that not only has he been rob, but you ve been robbed, so the Supreme Court is now becoming the receptacle of all the hopes of Trump supporters that they will do the right thing. So, on December, eleventh, when the Supreme Court does not do the right thing, the letter

is intense right and, of course, that leads many of his supporters to believe that their last possible chance at writing this wrong again adopting their language, because there was no fraud, is January, sixth, bright, Michael because a movement has grown here, because what happens after the Supreme Court decision December eleventh is on December. Fourteen the electoral college makes the the boat count. Official and trump turns to this idea of the January. Six will be his last, damn it. He will convince Congress to stop the steel as it became known in his worldly, then they will object to this, and he gets very into this idea of a big January six tromp rally the rally to end all rallies and as the democratic impeachment managers lay out their brief. He really is putting this January six rally in incredibly militaristic terms,

He escalates is public statements and uses more more incendiary and violent language to urgent supporters. To stop the steel. I can't let it happen. We won't take it anymore. This is the language that the impeachment manager say turn saying where six and to quote a powder keg waiting to blow. Just again, I want to thank you. It's just a great honor. This kind of crowd and to be before you and then, of course, we get to that tragic day January six. The crowds of huge president takes the stage, and what does he do? We're gonna, walk down and I'll, be there with you we're gonna walk down. Not only does he urged his supporters of marked some of the capital, because you'll never take back our country

with which this you have to show strength, and you have to be strong, but the rhetoric if using is, and we fight we're, gonna fight like hell, we fight like hell and if you don't fight like hell, you're, not gonna, have a country anymore. It's gonna be very important. Video did the Democrats, who are guided by now have made a case that there's no logical conclusion for these supporters than to go down to their capital and take matters into their own hands when every other american institution has let them down

so, in summary, the Democrats case is that for months, everything was building to January six, so that, in the final speech, when Tromp told both supporters to march to the capital, the wood was already stacked, and that was just the tossing of the match exactly order. It back Verizon designed five g to make the things we do every day better. With the coverage of five g nationwide, millions of people can now work, listen and stream and Verizon,

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he's gone through, I a few lawyers, and it seems as if his latest tee has prevailed upon him test or to drop that, but there are a couple. Different arguments are making, and the key argument is that Congress does not have a right to do this he's no longer and office impeachment in their constitution. Specifically talks about removing someone from office keys on, and therefore this is a mockery of the constitution and of is there any legitimacy to that defence assets? he is no longer president, but when he committed the act at activists enter of the trial. He was president and he was and when the house impeached Michael most legal scholars, do not support this interpretation, including some prominent Republicans in conservatives that the notion of impeachment, when the framers worst sort of getting this into the constitution there. It was already.

well established that one could be impeached after having left office with the remedy, in that case, being preventing them from serving in any I office again. The president's lawyers, however, are pointing to a single word in the constitutional mandate here in that and that impeachment is to remove someone from office and prevent them from serving and their arguing that the first predicate is that the person has to be in office and its about removal. What about how they will defend more specifically against the case being made by prosecutors. That, tromp incited this violence. The president's words are very focused on his specific words on the sixth and what they are arguing is that, if you listen to his words, he is nowhere close to

caring for violence. In fact, they quote him, and this is true that during his speech at the ellipse he said, I know everyone here will soon be marching over to the capital building to peacefully patriotically, make your voices heard so they're saying: there's no explicit call to action or violence in that speech on January six, but Jim. How do these defenceless plan to separate what present trumps said on the sixth from what came before it, because it's not like the democratic case in this trial is that what came before and what was said on the sixth is deeply interconnected. Well, here, they'll have an overarching, argument that to imply that the president did anything wrong in any of that would be to rob the President of the United States

of the fundamental right that all Americans have to free speech and that the president was well within its rights to voice this view that this is the stolen election that this process, right and she wasn't inciting a riot. He was speaking the truth as he they argue understood. It But you more than anyone who has been through. I swore Civics class news that when it comes to free speech, not all of it is protected yeah, but the president's lawyers are arguing that this, in fact, is not a case that that his beats quote, fell well within the norms of political speech, says protected by the first amendment and to try him for that would be to do a grave injustice to the freedom of speech in this country than he was complaining about an election, and how more american is that the first amendment protects the right to say

ever you want about an election and that he should have no less of a right to do that than any other american citizen. So a basically boils down to. He is just another american citizen voicing his view under the constitutional right to do so, but they show the presence. Defence team is going to argue both that the Senate and have the right to try a former president and that everything he said is protected anyway. Under the first amendment, people can say what they want, but their views of the election, and that includes tromp we could discuss. Which side has the stronger case here on the merits, But, of course, we should acknowledge at this point the fundamental reality, which was also the story of the first impeachment trial which is this, is not a legal trial, its approach trial, and we know that there are not seventeen republican votes necessary in the Senate to convict former president Trump. So where does that?

leave us knowing what the Senate is about to acquit Trump for. Having done, I think what we have to grapple with is what we now consider status quo political speech. Is there a limit to what a sitting president can say about the election system and whether he or she lost an election when its clear, here. She did, and a lot of the republican defence is around the notion that this was just political speech. They actually quote the Supreme Court in one decision saying language of the political arena is often the two positive, abusive and inexact, and what they are basically saying is effectively. I guess there's no limit to that right and if all political speech turns out to be

Kay, no matter how big the lie, no matter, whether it contributes to violence but what I mean for the American Democratic experiment especially in a moment? of such widespread, miss him for nation and disinformation, while by got at the expense of my reputation, on the daily? As Mr Sunshine? It's? How can you look at? That? Is anything that's good. I've, even none other than the Senate. Later Mitch, Mcconnell Rock Ribbed Conservative said that, but tromp had set in motion threatened to send democracy into clinical, a death spiral. So it's taken us into an uncharted place right and not a good place, not a good place. Belgium. Thank you very much

will stand up for the trial we appreciated. Thank you. So much Michael. The trial will begin at one p m Eastern, with four hours of debate about whether of former president can be tried by the Senate if, expected. A simple majority of senators agree to move forward house impeachment managers will begin presenting their case tomorrow, we'll be right back if you're looking to start a grow. Your business Ohio is for you, oh, how has the country's seventh biggest economy and two of the top sick cities in the? U S for start. Ups: according to Forbes, Ohio has a business friendly climate with a zero percent tax on state corporate income. Arnie investments and good sold

state with a highly skilled and growing workforce, a low cost of living and a high quality of life. Oh hi was better for businesses and employs because Ohio isn't built for followers Ohio, building for leaders learn more at Ohio is for leaders, dot, com, here's what else you need today on Monday, for the first time since the start of his trial on corruption is really prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu appeared in court where he declared his innocence. Thank the judges then walked out in the middle of the hearing. The trial of a sitting, Prime Minister, amid the pandemic and political deadlock so severe the Netanyahu cannot form a governing coalition has riveted the nation outside the causal protesters to men

the Netanyahu be held accountable for his alleged crimes, which include granting political favours an extra four lavish gifts having Benjamin I'm getting representative run right of Republican from Texas has. after contracting covert nineteen becoming the first sitting, members of Congress to succumb to the virus right who was sixty seven had previously been diagnosed with lung cancer. He tested positive for cover nineteen. On January twenty first tidies episode was produced by Robert Jemison, asked

countervailing Luke Vanderpool Alexander fully and Sydney Harbor. It was edited by teach Coward, endless utopian, Tobin and engineer by Chris. What that's it for the deal I'm likeable borrow cinema despite cast, is supported by the University of Pennsylvania. For more than fifty years, researchers at the University of Pennsylvania have made groundbreaking discoveries that have helped develop lifesaving vaccines in pen, labs, students and faculty are using These discoveries to aid in the fight against covered nineteen named the fourth most innovative university in the world by Reuters. It's all discovered, taught and made a pen visit pen today you pen, DOT Eu for more information