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The beautiful hay and look into the Pakistan Josh Card, there's Charles of each Brian there's Jerry over there and stuff, You know- and this is, from my perspective, a pretty awesome So that is why we don't normally have guessed on the show. No, we almost never do it's a very select group. It right this baby with proper yell at what happened last week well. Last week I was in Hawaii and I get a text from you and it said I'm sorry to bother you on vacation, but Bill gates wants to be insufficient, You may know bill gates from Elementary School Billy birthday, and I said now bill gates.

The entrepreneurs, CO, founder of Microsoft and philanthropists yes, wants to be on our show crack because his personal communications, person. Gotten touch and said. I know you don't normally do this, but would you consider making an exception for Mr Gates right and we relate. We really appreciate that you didn't research to know that we don't normally people like that actually was very kind. They were had other people that just assume like well you'd want to have this personal. I do the lesson of the show. We don't have guessed nor yet so we're like Bill Gates bill gates like play by Anthony Michael Hall, once made for tv movie. I see tee bill gates and he said that the gates that right, we said yes, watch we're gonna shop for the interview and it's gonna be any Michael Hall now a blow my mind so, recording this first, a portion of the pipe cast on renewal noble energy, which is a topic very dear to Mr Gates. His heart. And then he knows where more about

We do. I swear recording this before we. Talk to him in New York City next week, but did the magic of editing it will be as if this is one seamless daisy like he's in the studio with a threat so you wanna talk about renewable energies, pretty jazzed about it in you could say I'm pretty just about renewable energy as well. It's amazing! What's coming down the pike, there's yes coming down the pikes very important right because there's a lot of stuff, that's going on right now in the twenty four century and coming in the next couple decades that mean that we can really useful while energy sooner than later, the one is that it is predicted that energy consumption worldwide is going to increase by fifty percent over two thousand ten levels. Thirty years fifty percent. There is a lot more energy consumption, then we're doing

now and we consume a lot of energy right, yeah. Twenty fifty in the world as a whole emitted. Thirty six billion tons of too, and that is forty. Two percent more and we did forty two percent more than we did it. The ninety and the goal is. Eighty percent below ninety ninety levels- hundred and twenty eight hundred and forty two nine hundred twenty two yeah. You got a hundred and twenty two percent swing as in the wrong direction. Here we need to get to in trying to achieve in. This is not just the? U S is. Does the world problem its global? Exactly so you gotta to form the you have two conflicting issues here. You have Creasy energy demand, but you also have a desire to reduce co2 emissions dream. Then, then, if you wanna come from further, and this is where I am bill gates. His passions lie me. You ve got a lot of people out there, something like one

point three billion people around the world who just don't have electricity at all year. Eighteen percent of the world's poor, they should without electricity it all. Seventy percent of Sub Saharan Africa, no electricity three hundred million people in India alone, with no electricity right and that's not just Oh, you, don't have other mankind's its union, I'd like to read by and educate yourselves, yes or to a refrigerator food and not yet catch food, borne diseases, and me we give name out a hundred reasons why you need electricity and they are twenty. Sixteen exactly so, you ve got a growing energy demand. You have a need to reduce co2 emissions and they, you have a whole segment of the human population that needs access to energy, which means that the if you can come up with some good renewable technologies, you can actually make all these things work together.

Yeah, but the key is so if its renewal is automatically basically clean and it has to come soon to offset their energy increase. Energy consumption increase year bite because we're factoring the developing low income world into this. It needs to also be cheap and easily accessible and rely. Yeah until and something that I'm sure building hammered home every time he has a chance if it's gotta be it's gotta be viable and if its not cheaper and better than fossil fuel consumption, yet the no one's ever gonna jump on board in a big way. Yet if so from this point on Chuck, because he is coming on as a personal guests? Have you know, I think we can refer to his bill by our friend Bill Bill or pal yeah yeah to see a week. For now. What would I was done?

little bit about whose contributing to the problem. I'm China there, the world's top seo to emitter in twenty fourteen ITALY's for twenty seven percent of global emissions with the? U S? Number two at fifteen point by followed by the EU and I'm point five and India at seven point two year, but everybody agrees that lets their support I must try and reverse it, so they had at summit in Paris at the end of this past year were they all got together. All these nations said you know what let's said some goals here: in the? U S for their part, said you know at what strength at national emissions by up to twenty eight percent by the year twenty twenty five said: twenty percent from tee doesn't five levels yea, and this is this- is this whole Paris, a cord? Basically the Paris climate talks? It came in November, two hundred countries signed on to reduce their mission and

but it was Lord it as a huge breakthrough. You got all these people together in all these different countries and they hammered out a document that legally binding, but there's also criticism of the document and that their Oceans, reductions are totally voluntary that there were no teeth in the document to stay. Well, here's the bad things happen, If you don't meet year, reductions goals right by as criticizes the document. The Paris climate talks were There is also like a real sunny side to the whole thing and they came in some kind from between the lines message. Came out of it that was developed. Industrialized nations are ready to put down some serious coin into renewable energy technology. Yet the turn of the total one huh. Billion euros per year to

income economies to try and build them up and give them robust economies which would help the world as a whole right? So this, basically is it. This hundred billion euros a year at the sizeable chunk and it's it's a represents kind of a funnel through developing nations from developed nations to developing nations to renewable tech company here thirty, it's a about investment in renewable tech. Yeah. There's a lot of stuff, that's being that that just went from pie in the sky. To oh now you throw in some real money at this. We can make this happen now here, because some stuff brand new, some stuff altering existing technologies right, but it's all super exciting, yeah sure we talk about some me. What's the first one, I have to say

of? If you remember in the state of the union address here in January, President Obama said. Something about turning sunlight in the liquid fuel. I thought it. Having an acid flashback right in my beautiful but but no one is talking about, is a super promising process called artificial photosynthesis and its basically Well, it's exactly what it sounds it its building. Machines that take or to emissions and that contribute to climate change. And using that actually in the sunlight to make fuel so you're using Co2 Since as a raw material for fuel unbelievable, so basically I'm there's been a lot of stumbling blocks so far as far as the artificial photosynthesis industries can but they also had some really good breakthroughs. Recently. One was

came out of the departed emerges, Berkeley LAB where, basically, they too Nana wire arrays. They made what they call a synthetic forest of national wires right Dana wires, collect solar energy and they transfer it to bacteria and his bacteria mixed, with carbon dioxide water break down the ceo too, so they catalyze it into other components. Right then, another bacteria takes US components and build them up into a useful fuel like method. All in all, this happens in basically sent an artificial photosynthetic fuel cell is what is what it is using sunlight to break. To emissions down into usable fuel, then raising amazing. It is something else I got going is actually taking water co2 and splitting stuff up into its individual elements, rank and then essentially

recombining them to form c h, three o h, which is methanol a wood, spirits you don't wanna drink click, a what you would get it's like the simplest form of alpha and what you would get when you would burn would simply use perform well, yeah. I guess the simplest form would be golden grain, although but that in an engine one about out and they go work Travis out now, if you're few on the hills of Georgia. It'll work, Elizabeth, it also implies that you can use an engine, and it's already being used on. China is blending the gasoline for regular cars, it about fifteen percent or Latvia right there at the pumps and their attack, in buses are running up to eighty five percent bland Methanol gasoline right, that's a real thing! Definitely Israel thing in the morning

big problems with artificial photosynthesis has been that the the catalyst to break the ceo to down into a constituent components has required something like platinum. Platinum is a very efficient catalyst that process right. I am also costs. Eleven hundred dollars announced near enough you're coming up attack that you can sell cheap to the developing world. Platinum can't be a major component of the whole thing, which is why their Berkeley lab break through using bacteria to catalyze an synthesize. This stuff There is huge because one of the one of the bacteria they're using the synthetic bacteria synthesizing Baker is equal. You can find them anywhere. Man spoke, once a slideshow thrown in their got used to use your synthesizing bacteria, Other big goal is to all in this is this: is it

for anyone making any sort of renewable energy machinery is to make them last super long because then you can amortize at cost over many many years, thus driving the overall costs down. And so long lasting as a big e. And then you know it's not just about building the machine that war actually not the case of the bacteria, though so we split up right in these elements we need other machines around it. You can't do that and they throw it Mcgann right. There has to be recombine into something usable, well, yeah in another way that, but it's gotta, be I mean, there's all kinds of and sillery equipment that need to be used to make the following work right. So I think the point is you can have a huge just this huge thing if you're going to try to sell it to the consumer right now, you get used to be in the prompt gas, but you could create a huge thing if you,

basically created feel refinery, an artificial photosynthesis fuel refineries and then you can sell it to gas stations. That would work too another problem here that you point out. Is they figured out how to split water and co2 in separate processes, but not in one unit right? That's where that Berkeley break through such a big deal seo say it is both those two machines together and you got one machine- did exactly what they used to different kinds of bacteria due to different in the same in the same machine with its that's amazing, and one of the young researchers points out that funding for this stuff is kind of a problem, because funding doesn't at the same amount of money. Every quarter, sometimes it's high, sometimes is low, and that's really tough and it's a big challenge when you're trying to figure out these things, because you might get a great idea one year where you need that I don't have it

a lot harder to manage when that the ebb and flow of funding comes and goes. But I think that's where this huge, that the big that's where this big thing that came out of the Paris climate talks, Then they, like its Alec monies a thing of the past by right, if you're creating something It really has legs as far as creating you of is concerned, you're gonna be able to define the cat yeah right. Now, the? U S, Energy Department is renewing a seventy five million dollar five, your grant to context centre for artificial photosynthesis. So let us not pocket change which will take more than that, but communism, you can. You can do some research with that so thumbs up. Artificial photosynthesis thumbs and we're both oil excited. So, as is our custom, I think we should take a break sir,

so check them. There's a there's. This kind of this big issue right, where we have when power with solar power, in some places are Sonya than others in the United States, California, or else in the world, prices are when near than other Kansas. Okay. So I can't can get all the wind it needs from wind farms if they wanted to your brother, California. Actually I looked up Reno in Honolulu, about the same amount of sunlight every year. Did you know that you have very different places very different by them, so either one of them could subsist on solar energy now technically right, but you gotta place like Seattle. Second, do very for several solar energy or London. Not gonna do really well a solar energy, but if you're talking

they say a national grid say the United States, if you stepped back- and get it rather than like Kansas is one region in California. Is another and say: actually it Kansas in California are part of this larger grid. We just have to figure out how to get the wind power. That's constantly in Kansas, over tooth at all or the solar power power that you know in Reno over to Boston. How do you do that and they figured out all they have to do is use existing technology, which is a despicable, stepped up. If a power line, yeah think this is amazing. There was a guy named Alec Alex Mcdonald, in a from Noah the train, Any kind of realise one day paid: the winds are going somewhere like we ve got, the wind We gotta these power lines. What do we do? This? Let's think of thing

in a different way, unless think of the? U S as one big, all encompassing interconnected grid, which it is, but we cannot don't think of it. That way. No heed Exactly he said it's all connected, so what do we do? This was switch over these power lines to direct current lines which Edison I was right so they for a lot less loss. I looked up supposedly from power station to customer there's about an eight to fifteen percent loss using I see you line what we have going now and I believe, if you switch over to the d C, it would cut that about half a lot too bad now and beyond that. That means that you could transport electricity farther than you can now yet and you can look at a regional groups,

national grid is, is something whole right yeah, but you also can take if you can connect these things better. You can connect these regional grids in new, a comprehensive national grid. You can shuffle wind power from one region of the country to another solar power from one region of the country to another. Yes, what they did was This really cool computer model and they said listen this out. What's divide the United States up into a hundred and fifty two thousand squares: all of these will are connected already unless input when data from a couple years, two thousand sixty as eight ok nationally just to see whereat. Why not? Where the winds blowing, let's see where these grids are and what's figure out, demand where you need it most less Wendy places, obviously less sunny places, maybe, and let's figure out

the smartest Wade allay this out and where the best places to invest in building these massive wind farms right and they are so- were extremely cautious in their input into this model right, they excluded national parks and mountain slopes. Where you can, put windmills or solar rays sure they included anticipated electrical demands in the future. And they basically used all of the low in figures they could find and even with those low in figures chuck using these, these DC power lines yeah and putting new windmill in solar re outfits around the country in the right places there. They came up with the idea that we could cut co2 emission from power plants in the United States by eighty percent of those ninety ninety levels by twenty? Twenty? I think twenty thirty.

It's insane, whereas the goal that we want exactly eighty percent less and again they they point out. We were really cautious in our projections here. So this is the low, and this is the least we could do by doing this, and this is the using technology that all available right now, yeah, you point out. The one big idea is that if electric cars really take off like a lot of people, hope they will that they're gonna have to ramp up production, because that guy's be using a lot more power. Yeah and they they also today in the United States, is not necessarily a problem with some even finances, or certainly not technology, idea that religious political will there like say, one part of the country doesn't want independent another fritz power for some weird reside, acted totally see some Georgia senator being like we we're, not gonna depend on cans,

for our wine right our power and see that too? I could totally see it by if you're taking this, this concept of the high voltage grid right in creating it from scratch. In an area in the developing world that doesn't have an agreed to speak out here, that they could really benefit exactly this building. Build it there and that's just the way. It is yet its super hyped about that that one is? Which means your favorite so well that when so far, ok this next one is need. Budgets I just can't even read my brain or of photovoltaic paint yeah, but equally, instead of a solar pale, how about solar paint jack right about Paynton? This painting, your roof, your roof with pain? or with shingles that are made from this stuff yeah.

They already have, but their clumsy and cumbersome this stuff, if you're using photovoltaic paint your using painted mixed with colonial quantum dots, That's where I get or some sort of nanoparticles, and yet there are different types of nanoparticles that create an electrical charge when exposed the sunlight right, yeah. Well, if you have paint that's gotta bunch these mixed in with it and you have awaited jack. Your house's power lines in the said paint you can generate electricity just from pain in your house, and its super flexible is easily transported, which is a big the altar and if they can get costs down, which it looks like they're starting to do and get efficiency, I think that the record right now is somewhere around eight percent efficiency, so eight percent solar power that that hits. These things is, voted into electricity yeah still not enough, but is it substantial? Its growing briefing get these things up. This could be extremely helpful for

not just people in developing countries. People in remote areas like you, want to live off the grid, just paying your house with this stuff, yellow, side of your home, the roof of your home. You can, you can paint your cell phone in theory, unique pay. Your car pay. You die How are you dog? Don't bet your dog? They shouldn t this one is a bit my blowing, and it seems slightly more far fetched as far as making it the the realistic way to go. Well, that's the thing where I found that it works, but can you make it like big and widespread and mass produce right I think so, im so using Claudio Quantum Dots, I'm not quite sure how handy those are. How easy to find those are. There's another group that working. I'm making plastic ones you're, not a bad plastic. Solar cells, like nanoparticles, made out a plastic that that reactors solar energy and create electricity and as we

we love the mass produce. Things is plastic and we can do it cheaply, so they could definitely have a huge impact on it once you start making something at a plastic automatically means it's available for cheap enough to point were masters of plastic. That's I think the world needs a t, shirt that says that answers a plastic good banning opening up for a coil of quantum. That's nice, not bad! You anything after that. Now I guess yeah. I think the hive Power lines are my favorite, so far, yeah and still go with that. I'm in here is one thing that I know we're gonna talk with the bill about our friend bill, because his people that we are talking to you said bill gets really excited about batteries yeah in the future,

batteries, and I think everyone in renewable energies excited about batteries, because batteries are awesome and they can. They can do a lot of things that could potentially solve one of the big problems that if we don't get those power lines, up. You could at least generated bunch of wind and store them in a huge battery array for future use or a solar field. Or that I'm in better light. So, theoretically, you could do all this now, but the problem is that the costs are so monumental. Yes, increase batteries deck. There are big enough to back up the power grid. Here You are actually I'm in some cases doubling or tripling the cost of electricity and bill gates actually wrote like discuss no flood. He rode up

Sir. I'm energy bill gates is no love is no slot, nothing else, but he wrote a paper on energy innovation. Any points out that. So, if, if batteries double or triple the cost of electricity, You somehow figured out a way to generate electricity for free. It would still costs two to three times what it now the if your backing up the grid with battery damage to him into a lot of other observers says we need a better battery and one alternative is to get around the idea of batteries at all by creating that high voltage power grid. Therein spread win solar energy through out an entire nation yeah, but in general the consumer level. I know that Mr Leinen, another really smart people are trying to develop these batteries. That can just do a better job for your palm solar set up sure because that they're so long way to go. Even you know now, but yet, but if you can create a battery that they can store

power, solar power, then you don't have to have a fossil fuel plant to back up the solar wind power fur cloudy days or at night or days when the wind just one blow exactly redder how hard you wish the saddest days so I believe mosques is when I really covering that but weren't his lithium eye on base the big announcement recently yeah yeah, the test low, all the power while Power Wall Festival Power, so a year Lithium, I am batteries that, like you, can charge, while you're hooked up to the greater whatever or fear you got solar, whatever your backing up your homes, electricity yet, and I think each each battery less for eight hours. The plays a huge Offensive and, if you're extrapolating batteries on to helping the developing economies of the world, yet the EU need to have cheap in small and portable right, yeah

there's a lot of this, the idea of coming up with a better better is essentially the holy GRAIL as far as renewable energy goes, it would solve a lot, the under almost every renewable energy Jackson that you, wind and solar are ephemeral. They don't in all the time, so you need to find a way to store the access amounts that you when it is sunny and when the wind is blowing batteries. Shrewdly important. There's a lot of people working on right now, yeah, the one that is super promising that were covering here. It's called the flow battery and forget what you thought about your mom and dad in your grandpas batteries. Strong terminals in the trash lot. Don't do that, I think it over the ocean. I say thought in the fire Beverly, don't do that she did in the states,

the flow battery. My friend is where it that I think as far as the future is concerned, so well there there's many different versions of low batteries. I was actually one that I saw a brand new that uses lithium iron technology, along with hello system, which we can talk about a second, the one, that's it with you. I can actually store that combo connections ten times what a regular flow battery can organise, which is great. The downside is, there's always a downside, is its power. Delivery is ten thousand times slower, conventional battery thinks, while a charge of phone is like, we got lots of her power stored like what's the bad news. The UK is its ten. In times lower than what you used to buy them once you breakdown the standard flow battery is pretty ingenious so with

with a flow battery. You have you have to receiving tanks into holding tanks right yet and as this, the liquid inside the fluid inside, is an electrolyte fluid right. Yes, a basically gator aid, some kids, it's a fluid that contains electrical charge and as it flows from receiving thank the holding tank, it actually creates a charger. Transmits is charge charges itself right there or powers whatever you want. The cool thing about flow batteries are welcome. One of them we should say one of the drawback. Is that the big they need to be big again about the smallest you could you killed them come up with is so the size of an aquarium. Yet while its awesome advantage, because they can be as big as you want, that is then create one literally the size of a football stadium. If you want, if you, if you had Gatorade. They could store all the energy of of entire solar field. Writing settler paint right. So so in the grey thing,

flow battery is able store this charge indefinitely like this electoral latest fluid gonna lose its charge permanently. It can always be recharge by moving it from receiving thank the holding tat. Yet I think the biggest advantages its instantly recharge when he replaced that fluid. Yes, there's, I think, there's even any lag time is just boom right. It's going again so much of what we ve been talking about so far as as far as batteries are concerned is the way to store electricity. Yes, but there's actually other stuff you can store too. Generate electricity from and he's a big one year, because we talked again and again about how the sort of arcade weird. It is that we still create heat to spend. A turbine decree in the spanish whereby, right just like we did in the industrial revolution fancies you wanna, get using uglier riser you're still

generating steam to have any turbine. That's the whole point was the unresolved right up and they loved in, if you, if they float your boat, if that major eyes is Papa had goes into our electricity episode, which is one of my old times Yeah we did one on nuclear power to right. We did after Fukushima Birthright, you can actually store that heat correct in the future. Was now even though condensing solar power plants and they take the heat from the sun. So they're, not storing energy. There's, no way there not storing energy. I looked in and it seemed like everybody is talking about the heat, but they also have to store that solar energy as well would await right soap. At the very least, they store the heat, They usually story as molten salt, but they found out there you use a super critical fluid, which is a fluid. That's heated to a point where it basically no longer recognises the distinction between

liquid or gaseous form, and we can do all sorts of crazy stuff. If you take a super critical fluid, you can take the heat, the thermal heat from the sign in store that heat in there and then use it later on their by releasing that he too, he was ends generate steamed expenditure by also another great ban. Him spend a termite now super critical fluid. I agree. I think, if you wanted to name your band, just look into renewable energy hazard, like called names all over the place here or discuss your band bill gates are pal bill. My bed, you anything else for now. No over me. I could see you and tell where the stuff forever, but let's talk to bill gates about instead great idea in Chuck. We will do that right after this break. Sir

everyone we're back. We are in a hotel room in New York sitting. You have with Mr Bill Gates which is a little unusual for us to save his unusual Monday for sir. It is his folks reached out and asked if we would make an exception about having a guest on the show, and we thought about it for about point one seconds and set a course of that bill gates on the show. So thank you, yes for being here, and we already recorded the first part of the show on renewable energy, specifically a few different technologies in the future. That are pretty exciting, and so I think, just wanted to go hidden. Kick it off with a year a relevant questions. Kind of you know, into the nuts and bolts of some of the Tec, but one of the things we didn't cover, and we want to hear from you what are some of the obstacles that this renewal tech- that's just right there on the horizon, what's keeping them from deployed now, especially in the developing world. Where are we

think about energy. One of the key things is reliability. If you'd just have energy, when the wind blows, when the sunshine that's not very helpful, in of somebody's freezing in their apartment on a winter night, they need energy. If you're gonna build a factory say to build cars that, because you ve your huge capital, costs needs to run twenty four hours a day, and so it's got to have reliable energy and so

the market is just for energy. The market is for totally reliable energy. Unfortunately, a lot of the breakthrough we ve had wind and son. We don't have those directly generate electricity and storing electricity is very, very hard. All batteries in the world today would not store every laptop every car. Everything would not store and ours worth of global energy use were, and batteries have an improvement in the last hundred years there less than three times better than the battery.

Edison, if he were revive, would recognise which was of a lead chemistry. Battery shrilly, deleting my honest, has given us an improvement, but in order to really work for the grid, you'd need a factor of ten which it anyway, it's very top to make that work, and so, if we we need to pursue breakthrough pounds that don't assume a storage miracle like if you could take the sun directly and make liquid fuels to say gasoline than any hydrocarbons. Ah, that's liquid! That's easy to store! You put it in a vague metal tank. You put it in a pipe and the whole infrastructure is gone

towards liquid. The transport infrastructure is geared towards liquid hydrocarbons, and so, if you could possibly do that, it would have a big advantage, and we talked about artificials photos technology than quite promise. Yeah, and what actually? That brings up something we ve done quite a few podcast on different technologies in the future. Renewable energy, and I feel like every time we cover one. We both in the thinking why this is this. Is it This is fantastic and my question is while different down. Different paths is great for innovation. When should people start focusing on right now?

who's? The wine that we should put our efforts into well- they capitalism is very good at this at the start of the auto industry, if you'd really handicapped things and looked at the scheme- cars, ah, the electric car and the internal combustion engine, you probably guess steadily. Internal combustion would not succeed in this. We are with them in the hands of all at explode in those metal parts fatigue in it just seems so dangerous and so hard to get right and the thing that that made it. When is the energy density I've gasoline gasoline. One of my favorite books from this is called the physics for future. Presidents has some basic things that

that should be binding on gasoline is ten times. Is energy dances are best batteries, our fear and when you switch from a gasoline car to electric cars why you arrange goes down a lot and yet the weight of those batteries. More then you're gasoline Tink was before so. Henry Ford happened to bet on internal combustion. A few other people that all those others mad companies that were price in their products and talking about the maintain ability, their products and over time the internal combustion One out so dramatically that its heart- even remember that those things where there are allowed to go to the right- and you see those are still there- This energy thing will be the same way I mean Hi win sounds like the job stream.

You're, crazy idea, the solar fuels or what you're calling synthetic photosynthesis if it doesn't work. People fable, of course, that was was silly and if it does Workpeople sables right now is that was brilliant. When nuclear energy came along, there was a call from the head of the Atomic Energy Commission. Electricity will be too cheap to meet her now, unfortunately, he underestimated the complexities of radiation contain all the safety things which, in my view, means We need a whole new generation of reactors whose safety characteristics are dramatically battering different than what what we make today is called third generation. We need this fourth generation,

that will be like that, so I think we need to go down about a dozen different paths and even one that is still worth exploring is called carbon capture you say, where's stubbornly hydrocarbon, but with the law bit of x for chemistry you take that flew gas which in is about twelve percent co2 in you converted to liquids, and then, of course, you have to find some long term storage right in you use those feedstock,

out of fishes photosynthesis? I believe you can or their working on it now right. Greenhouses have enhanced seo too so plants love seal to. In fact, plants had a hard time seal to got down to about a hundred and seventy parts per million and plants. You insult, like chemistry, teens and because that's very top, that's one photosynthetic C4 chemistry evolved, which maize corn happens, he's right now now our up at four hundred ppm. But if you in a greenhouse, if you run it up to two percent, two thousand ppm, then the plants, actually some plants actually go quite a bit faster. We ve done I emphasise before we did want specifically on how the automobile became the dominant form of transportation. In the? U S right, from what I remember. It seem like that

Who was there is a lot of lobbying behind it and A government got involved in that now we all Dr Cartwright gasoline powered cars. The role of government today in getting renewables out there, especially in developing countries yet, city actually figure out how they will deal with horse manure and so in cars had compete with horses. That horse did have some serious drawback. Right later we figured out the banks or thought sides, and things coming out of the top over the car were a problem, but at the time it was a dream and he can prove it came out of the previous tail pipe renewable energy. When you get to say India, which is parent, nomadic because they still are not giving their citizens even a tenth of the electricity per person that we provide.

Of lights, admired urban, refrigerated food or cooking, with the stalled that doesn't pollute your lungs most Indians. Don't have that half of their citizens, they want to move to have what we have, which is an energy, intense life And if all Indians got everything we have, they wanted admitted as much as many much greenhouse gas per person, as we have until well after the end of this century, so in a certain just a sense that their electrified, their society will save lives and it's not a bad thing, and yet the world wants them to do it in with a constraint that we didn't have, which is to not emit greenhouse gases. So if we

can do the invention. We confront the arm d and maybe even the first few pilot plants to get the economies of scale and learning curve benefits than if we could offer to them a form of electrification, that's non polluting. Then you get the best of both worlds. If, can't do that. Then they have a dilemma which is the imperative of getting their citizens. What we already have versus this this global, problem, and so that's why we didn't have innovation. I wouldn't be very optimistic that the climate change problem would get solved. In fact, some people think it's easy to solve and that that could hold us back for making these long term investment One thing we often hear from listeners unaware podcast on stuff like this is what can I do

just in my home- and I know that you made a point about just the Yom the sea at the light bulbs- People are using now and little differences like that can help, but in a bigger sure where it is your average Joe Fit in with the United States, uses twice as much energy per person as other rich countries do so Europe and Japan would be less than half of us, Canada a lot like us and its partly the way we built up armed structure. We live further away from our work. Generally, we have more lighting around our house, more air conditioning, my favorite energy author who lives up in Canada, boss, laughs meal when he shows a picture of what causes look like in the fifties where there were many lights on at night and what they look like now, he looks

a big american cars are so he would say, hey the! U S, for a lot of reasons should be more reasonable about resource usage That alone is not going to solve climate change, and the idea of using this little issue can it's it's smart. It's good discipline, it's good for the world. It allows those same resources to be used by other people, write an remember. Energy is still causing local pollution. Coal plants, the understanding of what particulate dust Calvin, how that's bad for help that continues to increase and so cutting down on energy usage is not just a good thing for global warming. Cutting down on water usage makes that water available for the ecosystem for farming and lots of things are being smart about hey how much energy do you saw

how do we use a margin that we pay attention to that funny label that, thank goodness, the government now requires that appliances have energy usage labeling, because people were wasting a lot of money by cheap refrigerator who would increase their electricity bill dramatically over time. We still have our terms how we build houses, then it would be worth putting more into the original building. Tat have less heat leakage in the winter or cooling benefits in the summer. We really should put one to that. Capital France, which is easiest when you do the initial build instead of the retrofit, but even the retrofitting sometimes worth doing so. There is still a role for the average person in fighting climate change. I guess we're being responsible with energy use is beyond forming like a human chain blocking off a fossil.

Your power plant, where we're all complicit in using fossil fuels. Today, and so are you if there was a traitor going called Turkey, I dont think most people choose that they way people can contribute in setting sample through their own use their voice about hey, we care about this issue, and we will. These long term investments to be made. That is, is super important and if they can go to Africa and see what it's like to live without energy, one should visit that will become party or value system. To think how can we treat those lies as having? equal value were that's how or energy or all the things that that that we take for granted. So we got one

question yeah. Just on a personal note, I was kind of wondering out of Sync India that I'm in my mid forties now and have my first baby, and I think that, the point, at least in my life. I start for looking. Where I am and as I speak towards the grave and what have I done from my life, and I was wondering what it was. Defining moment in your life, where you gonna stopped and said I'm bill gates. I have accomplished quite a bit unarmed focus on the future of the world and did having kid have some they do that her. What words? What was that for you

Super lucky in that my earlier exposure to computers and lots of great people around that's of building Microsoft mean fanatical about that in a kept me busy in very happy I twenties thirty's, then am I forties. I've gotten married at thirty eight, my first child was born. When I was forty one, I started to gain more balance: new that somebody younger than me ah, should eventually take over Microsoft. Safeguarded. Broadly my learning I voice like science, but during the Microsoft days I couldn't keep track of the latest and map or biology is. I was a fanatic about software pure and simple, even vacations, and that's why I even waited to start a family, because I knew I wouldn't

have have enough time for it. So my forties, I brought my horizons a bit and then, when I was of forty five was when Melinda and I started putting money into foundation and saying ok. That would be that the next career and in the same way, that I'd have to wonderful our partners in Microsoft, Paul Island in the early days, immensity bombers we built it to be a large company melinda- would be an even more equal partner in This third partnership, which was making the foundation go so that been learning journey every year we get smarter about. Ok, what's the foundation do bringing in great people to help us there

but it was travelling to Africa. It was learning that in all these resources really should go back to society in some way. Meeting Belinda of some of the things Warren Buffett talk about were leaving lots of money to your kids is not a good thing I particularly highlight Melinda. The time was spent in Africa's sort, opening my eyes that there were things that could have a dramatic effect if we were smart about getting back the money? The right way, we'll building Thank you very much for being on stuff. You should know much appreciated by an honor. Thank you for talking with a hey, I'm honored, to be your first gas thanks. You can we get a picture of a cat while there's gonna be tough, the holy cow? What a guy yeah I was there I was nervous. Are you you think you like him

I think he loved you going to let you sit on his lap industry. That is a clear sign that he was fond of body might get mad. When I told them he had spent agenda state that he seemed to take that. Well, he took in stride. That was all off my behind the scenes. That was that was amazing in thanks to them for reaching out and the big thank the best of luck. They see that his efforts in the future. Yeah go renewable energy? Hurrah, one again touches us we'd love to hear from you. You can try to us it s. Why escape? I guess you can turn its on Facebook that complex that we should now. You can send an email to stop podcast that house stuff, that come and is always join us at home. On the web step. You should know doc

Furthermore, on this and thousands of other topics, does it stuff works that com Why do all the different things I love, even though they might not make sense together? If this question sounds familiar, the limit does not exist from heart radio. If a pod cas it's just real time, Cates got Campbell and I'm Christina Wallis. We want to help you follow your curiosity, celebrate your individuality and embrace the and not the or join us for concrete tools, real talk in conversations with inspiring guests who have crafted their own interdisciplinary careers, whether its astrophysics and valley or theater and technology. We believe the limit does not exist. Listen to the limit does not exist on the eye heart, radio, app apple podcast or wherever you get. Your favorite pot casts.