Hey folks, I want to tell you about the room by seven plus robot vacuum. It features decline, base automatic, disposal which automatically, empties its own, been into Our John Locke Bag, that holds sixty days of debris. Pictures. Ninety nine percent Apollon Mould and smites. Can forget about vacuuming for money. The time, if it's from a robot. It's not a rumour for offers and to learn more goat I wrote dot com, slash stuff, that The letter I robot dotcom, slash stuff, hey everybody. We ve already made our big tour announcement for the year, but this is a little different because we have added a show because Denver sold so we have added a second show endeavour. Not yeah, we're going to be there on Wednesday. The twenty seventh we added to show the day before same place, gothic theatre angle, Colorado. And go to ask why S cave, live dot com to get info in tickets for that show and all

so far- shows teacher that's right, boss in April fourth Dc April, Fit Saint Louis may twenty second and Cleveland. Ohio may twenty third come out, see us welcome to stop. You should know from House network Stockholm hey, you were actually. I shouldn't say that your check, because we are going to start the park, has led. This is like a pre thing right, a pre. Welcome to this episode, a very special episode of stuff. You should now that's right because live right now, Where are we live, we live in our beloved town of Atlanta Right, hot Lana. Well, know you don't know a closet that everybody, but we did this special show at the bucket theatre sorted out by the way, and it was there was a benefit. Show you

pretty great we toward this topic in quite a few cities. Last year we had a lot of fun and we decided actually was your idea, give you full credit halo. This latter local show a benefit, show and give all the dough to charities of our choice. So mind: Chuck was the national down syndrome, society This great organization who Kate for people down syndrome. Obviously, but one of the things that the national down Syndrome- society is daddy, the two especially right. Now they have something called law syndrome, check out law syndrome, DOT, Org it basics, trying to get the laws changed that make people down syndrome chew between pursuing like a career and actually being able to support themselves or not in staying at home and living with their parents, but still getting at as to the really great government Medicaid Healthcare, they need so that India,

says the saying they shouldn't. To choose that we should want both of them, want them to have both of them. So that's that's their push right now and you can go to envy as s dot. Org may have us The ways we donate and you can do that Oh great about yourself, it's great and actually sent people from society to the show and we met them and they were their wonderful. What it, what a great place to pay. What a great way to donate your money, people yeah shouted calling Caleb for come into the. So. Thank you very much for my cherry pick. The lifeline animal project right here in Atlanta they are a sort of local grass roots E Animal rescue organization of a few locations in Atlanta, terrific. They have low cost Spain Neuter programmes you can, you can adopt in there. There really is great and they do at all Not for fame or glory or money, but because Lana has a serious, serious problem with stray pets

they're, just the nicest people, so did you guys are supporting them and sir through because they are who Emily and I are charitable with every year on our own anyway, and it was great to efficiently partner with them and be able to combine with our regular, donating and write them a big old fat check thanks to stuff, you should know listeners, yes, so so here's the thing we donated a hundred per cent of our proceeds from that. Shall we twisted every arm involved. Stuff works got teeth. Made up a legendary super fan and friend airing Cooper donated his time to design the t shirts People who made the t shirts donated them for free all the proceeds from the teachers, went to national down syndrome, society and lifeline animal rescue. So what we're trying to say now is we're releasing this episode and we are hoping that you are beloved stuff. You should know listeners why?

The time to go, make a donation yourself in exchange for this free live up, so that we're bringing you that's right, and if you want to just donate regular style, you can get a lifeline animal dot org. That would be great they made at super easy and set up a text. Donation campaign. So all you have to do is text lifeline whatever amount of money so tat Lifeline dollar sign five too five zero one. Five five, then you have just have just five bucks or, however much money went to donate. It's really really easy right. You can go to the Andy as as Org website and you can donate their and they make a pretty easy on you. Both those nations are donations to both organisations or tax deductible. So it's got that bonus to professor rights are one more time for lifeline. You can text to the number five zero one, five. Five, the words Lifeline dollar sign and whatever number you want to donate yep,

Andy S as dot org and away with the ship hey walk into the podcast, I'm Josh Clark, there's Charles the Beach, a bright jerry's. I hear but we are, with always beautiful people, live with a blockhead theatre in our own Atlanta G, a serious savvy everybody yeah. Those May I feel great I feel great since this is a podcast, it's actually set a little further back in time. We thought we would all get into the way back machine

So for those of you who have seen as lie before you know, the way back machine is made up the real thing you, but take a twinkling, your I try and a heart full of magic to get a new way back receives. I hope all of you have that going on right now. Does my best, Sir Silverman Impression is pretty good things. The role of the way back. Racine, okay and we're going the Detroit Michigan back to like the mid sixties, or something like that will say back when people still wanted to go to Detroit. On purpose. Sorry MA, am I told you and we're gonna fly in blue. There's a feminist and were very small and invisible by the way. So we're gonna fly in over the shoulder proof of a up and coming all executive with a view

or head of hair named Lee. I coca. And we leave the time he was what you might call a young Turks up and coming like ready to take on the world's great guy any it a lot of Craig around the company very work that call Ford Motor Company. Right is pre Chrysler right. And he had a lot of credit because he had designed the Mustang right. It was known, as least car even yeah I mean, if you do, if you are the guy in the lead of the Ford Mustang project. Then you ve bought your ticket in the current is right. If only they re cars, do you make the car that vanilla ice will eventually love? You done something quite right with your life right. Did he ever Mustang role in my five point with the red top down? That's a Mustang body. Is it sure because even in the video.

Never been more ashamed, did not know the lyrics of a song yeah because its Ethel Vanilla ice. So I don't feel like I should have known it. I just feel like a stooge. Oh no! It's fine! Now you gotta, we ensured. Aren't you probably showed you know those here, but I know one another lyric forget I did notice. I point by point: it's mine standing right everybody. I thought it was a Volkswagen beetle. Now nobody does come up starting now because Lee Coca was one of the few people in Detroit at the time who realize that the american auto Industries lunch, was being eaten in the sub compact market, mainly because no american car companies making so complex, everytime right. We liked your cars very large late, I'm like ie, eight land yachts, yet ok so leave the Germans are eating our lunch with their little Volkswagen Beetle, Hitler's car

look it up. I had two Volkswagen beetles, those two, Hitler's car use supported Hitler in a way My mom is over there. She bought that guy she's and then the toy Oda curl up was also killing people right killing Detroit, I should say there s a lease said: we need to get a car to market, but I'm not the president there's a man who is president. What is his name chuck can you remember honestly, Oh no, I do remember his name is bunking.

And if you are the President car company, unique bunking newts in you gotta know you have a target about nobody's gonna. Let that stand for very long, especially not Lee. I Coca, yet the awning fuckin it said in that year would have been. President of is that the super seek. It does Supersecret tree House Playboy Magazine Club, led by bunking Newton Right or the local union, of the guys who sell those like monkeys that play that symbol on the setting up of the wind up once I so, regardless of that bumpy needs and was in charge and Leah Coca had as its head sights set on their job, and so they settle things in the traditional way in the car industry at the time, which is obviously very serious, so Leah Coca had this thing where we think this is partly how he rose to power, he could the sleeve clean, of his shirt right at the shoulder right.

For an hour and wrestling match ripe is very intimate and he always kept his arms oil every morning. He would marry gingerly put the shirt on over him, so we should do so. It really had like a pronounced effect when he tore shortly of often when, like that, so when he did this Monkey needs in a monkey saw that oil by said he knew his time running for company had grown short. That's right! You need to know what time it was his ball. That way totally made up your this done. Silence through me off a little bit is back to the tree house for bumpy, so we are Coca found himself in charge. Afford And he said we gotta get a sub combat going fast deeds. So here's what we're we're going, project going up to give it a code name which is weird and sort of marked kind of Inuits and move, but he named Project Phoenix, very cute

Little ironic once you know what this is about, and he said I want to car when on the market in what twenty four months, and normally it took like forty three months, David Car, from concept to production. I cook is that no twenty four yet twenty force a super fast. Can't way more than two thousand pounds in it. Can't CASA customer more than two thousand dollars in a totally should have called it project, two thousand so that a super cool name thoroughly. Nineteen, seventy strike My car will go on being known as the Ford Pinto For those of you who aren't going like, perhaps couple a couple, a groans and a lot of like, We have been working to fill the why people in on ok, yes to deal with the four pinto was, if you dont know, and you did grow up in the seventies, it, had a problem

we don't know a lot about cars. But we know that the Ford Pinto had a problem. If you would hit the Ford pinto from the rear, going very, very slow? Sometimes burst into a fiery ball, and that is not a good thing. For a car to do is when you're still in the car That's right. Has anyone seen the movie topsecret from now on, There is there's a Seymour whereabouts camera things on a motorcycle he's being chased by Germans and he somehow out maneuvers, I'm swerve off the road and slammed on their breaks and almost come to a complete, stop right beforehand, hitting a pinto in the rear, but joke

make it makes that crystal thing sound they just blow up in flames, and this is in the eighties. This is like at least ten years after the pinto. Yet had this reputation, that's not that far from the truth. Actually, we found from doing this research, so There is actually a lot of choice, clubs that we found, while people love taken potshots at the pinto. Some have written some pretty great stuff you and take the first the first one was very popular mechanics magazine and they said arguably, the most dangerous fuel tank of all time was a rear mounted vessel and sought on the seventy one through seventy six Ford Pinto possibly the best example of what happens when poor engineering meets corporate negligence could quote

a gallon there's this guy named Doktor Leslie Ball. He was the chief safety officer for NASA's, manned space programmes, this guy new safety right he said that the release to production of the pinto was the most reprehensible decision in the history of american engineering. There's a couple of things. I wonder why it is right. A couple of things you know in this quote: wine he said was the most reprehensible says you're, not one of the He also qualifies it with american engineering, not automotive engineering he's, including like easy bake ovens in other stuff. They feel like millions of people, including everything ever built, basically easy governs.

Death traps do so. The Peter was kind of an issue for forward. Is we're going to see, but this is one Tibet we ran it costs. If we just love there was a radio spot for the pinto in the seventies and Ford headed. They're on their agency to get rid of it because it the line the to leave you with that war. Feeling very real this is. This is a fine one of research. So again, I want to reiterate: we don't know anything about the design of cars. We know how to drive cars and that's about where it ends But we do know this. The original design of the pinto had aghast snake It started, so inches from the rear. Bumper. I know that's, not a good idea, If I was in Detroit Outer said well, that's weird

Why would you want to do that? Because you know accidents happen, No one thought about that. Made even worse by the fact that a car critic with later call that bumper little more than ornamentation right like cars- a bumper put that thing that looks like a bumper hunted. Basically, there is a later improved version of the bumper on the pinto that can withstand a five mile in our impact. That was the improved and again this is all happening, six inches away from the gas tank. That's one side of you'll take there's whole other side in like its own issues. Basically sickly, there's something on a car called a differential

We can accept it. We don't know what that is, but I did some research and here's what I'm going to call it. It's the MAGIC box that makes the cargo room and he is pretty accurate, What's so funny is like we pride ourselves are chasing down. Every teed bit of information when it comes to cars were just like less out no idea who would want to hear a lie: podcast about a car, so this magic box on the Fort Minto had four protruding bolts facing the gas tank that see. You get me now that in court later on- and this would end up in court that see where this is going, lawyers will call them can't openers and we're just gonna call them for this. Show flaming death pulse

I wish we had a sound effective like jingle like flee, mean death bowls, and we should tell the trademark claiming their thoughts and eggs are too early. That's a bad name. I think we should at least Colorado defining couples behind. This came up we are on the wrong night. So, like I said there is there's a lot of good quota. They were probably the best of the best came from this journalists. They mark Dowie, who figures big time into the story. Probably got across the problem with the pinto better than anybody, and if I may, please get marked out ways if you ran into a pinto, you are following over thirty miles an hour. The rear under the carpet buckle like an accordion right up to the back seat. Two bleeding to the gas tank cap would be ripped away for the tank itself in gas would immediately begins washing onto the road around the car right.

The buckled gas tank would be jammed up against the differential housing which contained for sharp protruding bolts likely to gash holes in the tank in spill. Still more gas now all you need is a spark from a cigarette in this is me and rejecting here. This is the seventies, so every single person in every single car was smoking every single second of every moment they arrive or lit cigarettes in every car at all times, with those up borrowing that you can also get it from the ignition or scraping metal in both cars are being gulf in flames. You gave that pinned to a really good whack, say forty miles per hour. Chances are excellent, that its doors with GM and you would have to stand by and watch its trap. Passengers burned to death

You're me saying this: your additional. Would you call that pantomimic acting since in the pantomime through this fantastic ain't, you. The reading rainbow with Josh, give our Burton or run for his money so there was one at thirty Mile Brower crash tests with a pin, so that found that all thirteen gallons, all thirteen gallons. Spilled out in less than sixty seconds, so the I'll drive you know when you I'll pump gas. You know how fast, when you're pumping gas it's coming out. You're, like, I might add, that so bad a whole coming out it's so bad. You can't pump take a gas and sixty seconds so the printer, billing gas faster than you can pump gas.

Think about that? Next time you go to the gas station, Think, thank God. I'm driving early nineteenth seventies, Pinta The weird thing is this: despite the pin, toes reputation, weathers from tops we learned about from an older brother who knows where you heard it from the what most people, I would even say. No, the painter was a flaming death trap. It turns out. In retrospect the pinto was really not much worse than any other car and its class at that time. It does not say that the pinto wasn't a flaming death trap, but instead, All cars were flaming debt trap the idea of being safe. If you got you a crash with totally lost on Detroit at the time, it wasn't a thing. So we wondered okay. Well, how do the pinto actually get this reputation and answer that question? We have to go to the grid, periodical room in the sky.

And we have to go back to the night. We all have to die No the great part about it. You can go there alive Usually you say the great things kind injured, totally the Ets in the ok. Great we're going to the great periodical sky and we're all living scrape, we're gonna go back to the nineteen. Seventy seven section and we're going to find the nineteen seventy seven year for Mother Jones Magazine is only one ever heard. A mother Jones magazines still around today, one might characterize it is slightly left of solar, maybe, and it was very much the same back in the day and in the in this light timber October nineteen, seventy seven issue of Mother Jones magazine there was an article by marked out. We tried skull pinto man ass. He can still read this article today. It was one of the main sources we use its a great deep guy if you want to reach

stuff about the pinto but mark values. To quote you read earlier, and he was a journalist there at the time and this is this is one reason you know, as is also the seventies when they release this article in a met. A print magazine, TAT, oppressed, prince about it, which is adorable when you got it Actually through today's lens, so they even travel? They went to Washington DC from San Francisco, how the big press conference Their own capital hill about a magazine article and they invited Ralph Major to attend which yeah, we waited, If you don't you rob later is he is great american? He was a consumer crusader who cared really about one thing in life and that is making sure that, Corporations didn't screw you over and kept you safe and he

this now, if you get rich doing it Ralph later, was a great great do. Try. He like live like a hermit to show that I wasn't being influenced by one side or the other had like a mattress on the floor of like a studio apartment they get here. Plate that he lived with ironic is very dangerous. Now I think about it. It was like probably one of the safer hot place, but I bet it was. The best are played on the market are crucial year. Things are buddy body with his own money. He did so do you arrive later? Was there they got everyone together and they have big a press conference in Washington Dc and I to poke around a little bit and do a little more research for this article and say you know any to go to these need to get the deity and need to go. What was he had? One called the innate ts, AY ones. For a man, the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration costs

The mouthful very gives of common words more. You put him in a guy like that stuff So he when started doing some investigating and he found out that, for it had been carrying out well have been carrying out crash tests in secret and when carrying out crash tests in secret, that's probably not It means you didn't get the result you were hoping for. So you You suppressed the the the results You had all the scientists murdered now there's all these bureaucrats going legal guidelines, it keeps saying Eureka defining Adele is again, there was a spy camera and he figured out very, very but that was just to get the ball rolling. He had goons kill the rest assured you then you filed process with the D

internal think so tat we see in their going through all these vile cabinets, and you know there's all these bureaucrats going legal guidelines to keep saying. Eureka now he's a guy and there was a spy camera and he figured out very very quickly that Ford was well aware of this every notion that of those forty were flaming death traps, was a pinto that forty crash tests he found- Eleven of them miles an hour over not very good right now, not good at all pinto. The first one had ever rolled off of the production line right here, These crash tests that every single one of those forty crash tests. If it was and they all three pass. Yet they still didn't use it, and here the three things they did, they one was a plastic, gas at an impact of twenty miles an hour over, not very good right now, not good at all so

Three, these cars pass. The test in all three of them had been had been. Week for safety like these aren't the ones that you would into buying. They choose three of them and they all three pass. Yet they still The news it- and here are the three things I did. They one was a plastic baffle. Little square plastic, the costs, one dollar, no wait pound and it went between. The flaming death bolts and the gas tank all the problem really, since it did not use it because remember two thousand pounds two thousand dollars which- and I know what that is today- it's two thousand pound and twelve thousand dollars was of course, the pounds in change. Gravity is re relatively the thing, the other thing they tested. And this ostensibly was little heavier. They put a metal plate to reinforce that. The bumper is they had

they gave it a bumper and that worked, and then the finally, the final thing they did was, I think they line was inside and outside the guest inside of a guess whether inside the guest sank with a rubber bladder and that work but no one likes ignored, bladder had forwards, radiometer legacy that arose and worthy of its authority, so we're getting rid our point as they had three solutions before the Ford was being rolled up, the line chose to ignore threeam right. Point here right. And, in addition to this two thousand pound, two thousand dollar limitation, that I coca imposed that right please shorten timeline. Also created a climate were really really dangerous. Engineering decisions were being made right. Normally, when you make a car you sketched out.

Somebody makes a model of it. Some dude, like works, even clay. You run it into like a couple of walls or supply to figure out how many like why, like a cigarette lawyers, are gonna go into it, there's a lot of thought put into it and then what all this stuff is pre production. Stuff is done and you know what the cars gonna look like. Then you begin this process called tooling. Tooling, is where you make the machines that are going to make the car that your manufacturing right with the pinto they didn't do that they started, designing the car and at about the same time, they started making the machines that we're going to make that car before they even new. Ultimately, what the final design was can be so by the time they figured out that they had a really dangerous fuel tank on their hands.

It was too late. The tooling was underway, two hundred million dollars worth of machines have been made in, for it said yeah so when they discover this, we have a couple of course here from actual engineers at work there at the time and they said: did anyone go to lie a coca and say hey? We have a problem on our hands disgusting, and this one engineer from the mother Jones article said how now, but if it was like thanking seventies, so you say like that. Like hell, no in my mind, you know That person would have been fired. Safety wasn't a popular subject, ran forward in those days and with Lee it was taboo or taboo. You know, if you talk normally to do,

taboo to tap. Delirious. This video outlets guide that twenty people in here they got out. That's all I so I took out a saying around for the time, which was so He doesn't sell. And here's another quote from another engineer. Safety is an issue trunk spaces. You have no idea how stiffer competition is a rare trunk space You realise that if we put a safer gas tank, the pinto can only get one set of golf. Clubs in the trunk and that's a real quote and hear something that you can do when you get home, you can go and look up for Pinto ad and search Google images are Being images is at your being a Yahoo

the Google YA, gotta, Netscape and or if you're paranoid type doktor cup that even flew over my head. It's like they don't like tracker use cookies or anything like that. Oh dear creep, I guess you stockpile weapons resemble so anyway, you Ford Pinto ads in there all kinds of great ads from the old days and there's one where there's this, but the Couple that I guesses unpacking for. Like a camping trip, pinto, but it doesn't look like anywhere. You would want to go camping and systemic a field as they did ditch gonna we're lookin end its as this in the text. Just put down the run about rear seat. The run about was one of the pinto models open up the big back door, which we call a hat? these days. And the big back room mate. Packing easy back in your golf clubs, those groceries in Lisbon,

pieces of luggage hack it all in you make it sound, really dirt. There's big room in your little pinto. I'm the sicker, because armies inductor, it's a sexy, is out of the seventies. As read by me, I, like all lands in a magazine because, like you, can smell am afterward. You know I'm saying like: if you go into Google images, the answer, but the smell, but you know a little magazine smells like hassock smell like musty What magazines are you reading any old magazine eyes like an old? How thick dislike

We have to get their part, should now my doing much higher and everybody calm down my niece left to go to bed. Are there any other kids here. You have already boys young boy right ear of seven beer me screw So everybody, I think we can all agree- is going pretty well you're, not gonna like this. That means that we need to put in a in here come down we'll be right back right after these messages a shock. We're we're over here listening and we're doing great. Frankly, this is going really well agreed, so

Before we go to a break everyone, we just want to say: quick reminder, goat Andy S Esta or to donate, to the national Down syndrome, society and chuck. What's the the number for lifeline. You can try. To the number five zero one. Five five takes the word fine dollar sign and whatever amount you want to give our right now we're from us. What hey everybody, its Josh and check your pals and get this for the new episodes of stuff. You, we're going to have a little help from Alexa hello? It's me Alexa. I know a lot about what you're looking for low, not yet Alexa, not yet now for new. Episodes she'll be charming in with stuff. You should know like this, the pitch of some

It is so closely related to the temperature that you can use them as a thermometer, or this more than twice universities, including Oxford Cambridge were founded before the ass empire and are still in operation today so tune in to the latest episodes of stuff. You should know for stuff. Alexa thinks he's, hey you wanna, do or more sure Alexa the king, cobra is not strictly speaking, a cobra it makes a noise like a growl or a bark instead of hissing barking cobras, who knew just the king cobra is not, strictly speaking a cobra, an elixir thanks for telling us some stuff. We should know any time I love to talk about stuff.

Everybody we're back magic is our worries. Thank you, sir. I am we're me on these. Oh you know it. We should say this as a free man. Look at this part out too, but I have to share this. We got this is a legit tangent like like all of them, are heavily scripted when presenting its efforts and we got an email yesterday, you saw it I did where a woman, weird A woman wanted to send a new pair of me on these two us for us, you autograph. So she can frame- underwear, for her husband's Christmas gift. Now that is a deep cut sure it's a faint unless you wouldn't like

wear them first year, each of you ass it after the other one name. Male back to me, I love those like oh yeah. Cinnamon totally do that. I said that you will know that I can only magazine right when she got that in the mail. I, what guys, why would you do that? No one else saw there is added, is part of our teacher skyrocket here so that he may do our head of sales, though, and he was so delighted using. I can't wait to send this to me on this. They're, your autograph being underwear, they're, not gonna, believe it that's. Like David Lee Roth level.

It's a we're. Autographs me on these four. Then some good David Lee Rough I didn't realize you we're back thinking, tour. Are you and again, though, because you just said that everybody we're back, I think you stepped out. You stopped laughing everybody. We need clean. I said: stop laughing everybody we're back for hang in there you as a really long. We know where we were now we would. I gotta go now I got creepy right before another. By now I gotcha.

Hey everybody, we're back everything we like what the hell happened in a let's get enough Worley, let So by now everybody you may be saying Chuck Josh diabetes. How could this possibly be going on? How could forward be doing this kind of stuff? how you Debbie TS turns back in the sixties. The american auto industry was like the last great unregulated industry in the entire country. The reason why was because most Americans considers the auto industry the ban, bone of the american economy right So everyone said we should probably The auto industry decide what's best for it and ass its consumers.

Because we don't want to mess with them. Yet the corporations, let the look out for everyday americans- but at the time there was a they tell at any rate a death rate on. Work is highways reaching fifty thousand people a year. We did the math, that's what that is Ralph NATO had a book called unsafe it any speed. That was a big kit. He also had one called plates unsafe it any temperature. So so does it s quite as well as anyone actually read unsafe and any speed, I feel bad. We haven't either. Ok, so he releases book in nineteen. Sixty five It was basically like a chapter by chapter really wonky detailed description of how your car was ready and willing to murder. You right

not kill you murder year institutional, there were like chapters on like the steering com. It's going to impale you or that dashboard it ain't padded in your heads can open up like a right candle. Opening of the kind of tat name is exaggerating the yet, and the reason that this would happen for both instances, because there's no such thing as seatbelts right. So he goes to the tree. There were seatbelts, it was your mom doing. And that's how you knew like a really dedicated mom in the in the sixties. Issues missing an arm like your kid was all messed up at a dinner tat or whatever it is it didn't. Quite workers are aren't, came clean off when they both went forward, but he's still alive. She didn't have an arm is a badge of honor back there

so healthier makes this makes rights this book in a kids release and it becomes a best seller almost immediately, and it has so much of an impact that the next year, Congo Pass the highway safety active nineteen sixty six, and this is another way you knew it was a day from way back in the day the house in the Senate pass it unanimously. His so called they all got together and said. Well, this is what's good for the american people, so this is our job to do this. Now it pretty sweet, pretty sweet pretty sweet, so they pass this thing in the upshot of it was that now the auto industry would be regulated, it was just the way was going to be ok. And the auto industry said. Ok, ok, bye, bye, bye

What about this Y know? We agree to use something called a cost benefit analysis to decide. If we actually undertake any regulations. You propose deal and Theo tee in HD, as there was a well known, auto industry, where, like that dear to using one arm Russell over this, what fine cost benefited analysis for everybody here. So if you don't know where the cost benefit analysis, as we call it, the cruellest of all analyses cause it's basically just a math problem. You plug in numbers any say I plug in this I plug in this. Is it worth it to do this, which works in a lot of circumstances, if you're talking about like a like, what's going, like if you're trying to figure out whether to go with distributor or tire distributor, be kind easy right exactly, but if you're talking about replacing a fuel tank, because it's killing people it gets a little sticky.

One of the inputs on those math problems here to be the value of human life, is no getting around no way around right so that an AIDS tier say said well. I guess we should go ahead and figure out how to quantify human life. They all my home in like kissed their children when they came back to your work. And what they came up with actually did it. There is a nineteen. Seventy two document. Said everybody. This is the value of human life and figured it up to him. Thousand seven hundred and twenty five dollars. And what they did was, then why really? I thought I was half that So what they did was they figured out the the Its life span for the average age, I guess of a person who dies in a car wreck and then

checked it from the average lifespan of the Americans at the it at the time in the Iraq such ass, they came up with They came up with thirty seven years. Most people who die in a car wreck would have lived thirty seven more years and then they say well how much with those people make in that time, and they said well, two hundred thousand seven hundred twenty five dollars the problem, with this is: is that it really what they calculated was the cost to society in lost productivity? just wages ripe. They didn't take into account some very important stuff like that, value that the individual places on his or her own life or where Their family wants him to come home after a car wreck stuff like that, but they can with this dollar mountainous. Are there there we'll get better at it over time? But here's what it is and it's a primitive step, exact

again the cruellest of all analyses, so Margo III is sorting through other filing cabinets, a deity and the The national heritage premeditated better if the amounts to listen, if no faster, to say it abbreviated. I now I would just mess it up there, so he sorting to other stuff is going to follow cabinets. Everyone's worry in it cross the document, a memo called fatalities associated with the crash induce fuel leakage and fires, and over the years people come to thing like this- is the smoking gun. Pinto was about pinto fires from get hit in the rear, and that's what it is really wasn't that what it was was it was about all cars in the United States and whether they caught on fire when they over. However, the one aiming thing in this memo. Was Ford, use number, well almost. That number quantify the value of human life but Ford

the we roundly down the value of a human life. Just you know to make the math easier. Yet they met a two hundred grand. They cut off a seven hundred twenty five dollars. Dismayed illustrate up two hundred so estimated like a hundred Navy fatalities in a hundred and eighty injuries in car fires. Postcard car fires every year. In the U S and they said well, that will cost society. Forty nine million dollars in lost productivity. But if you to do this eleven dollars per car safety improvement that would save those lives in those injuries. Will it cost us the auto industry a hundred and thirteen million dollars, so to do it right grey. See it racquetball TED, that was kind of you guys he fight club Member Edward Nortons job, that was kind of what he did right.

I, the kind of calculate whether or not it is worth taking a recall and Ford thanks dowie. Been caught red handed with one of these submitted, The public record, our aid, so part of the motor Vehicle Safety ACT was was something in all these bills. This gets a little wonky, but bear with me. There are broken down in the sub categories and what was called vehicle safety Standard three one and three or one was basically our government getting together and saying you know what we like you, should be able to get hit from the rear it like twenty miles an hour and not split into a fiery ball we ve talked about it. We know you're gonna, say to toy. We talked about. We feel very strongly about this. We feel that reasonable Democrats push for thirty Republicans push pretend they met the middle at twenty there

people from CAP County, and they are not happy with your right now as our they are going to. Let us know the immediately after the ship So angry the way you feel about life, So they settle on twenty miles an hour that with safety standard, three a wine, but here's that there's the rub. Further forward in the pinto is there problem on their hands. They did he couldn't within twenty miles an hour. They could barely withstand five, so this would have meant a complete redesign on the pinto, so They came up with a plan, basically to show delay the process. I could kill, kill that kill that standard three o one. I hate it and they were because I didn't have to kill a human right for once so Klaus in his air. I didn't even mean to say that by getting works, pretty well

So here's what they did they got up and on the case, and they said here's what you do. You're gonna you're gonna buy all these arguments on the latter. Stay that you can file argument and you can get all this data together Shove it their face and say here's an argument: deity deity. And now you look through other stuff and you have to satisfy that argument. So. They may not have even cared its argument held up or not. The point was I just wanted to delay. Things keep selling the very dangerous. Mental, So they did this and they didn't didn't violent concurrently, all at once, which is sorted. What you usually do in war in court? they would fire one. They would go with the amounts air. This holds water. It doesn't make a great they wait till then This deadline, and while another one and all of a sudden, they have done This process for nine years nine years, started, arguing against eight nineteen sixty eight and stay.

With real one way into effect in nineteen. Seventy seven right, yeah so the there is kind of like a silver lining to this whole thing and that for Jackson's, actually forced the National Highway Transportation Safety administration to study the problem of car fires to answer for its objections, say no actually you're wrong, they're kind of a problem. Yet there are giving him reams of data, and then they went off. We just gave them, but that is to say also had to make contact with people to study this stuff in what they were finding was that car fires in Amerika were way way more of a problem than even forward. I think realised at the time. They turned up some stats, like four hundred thousand, In cars were burning up on the american highway every year, burning more than three thousand people of death.

Is that high four hundred thousand cigars? Yet, maybe I don't know, but this they turned up at Santa here's, a here's one, forty percent of all calls to all fire departments. States in the nineteen sixty these were cars on fire, not just last time you guys car on fire. This would be like in like you would see why they couple Moslem. There's another one while yet- and this was people didn't have cell phones, so you have to see a car on fire. Have I am in your pocket: be near enough to pay phones, you report it right, and that was forty percent and have made the judgment that there is a chance that the person was gonna, make it in the time that you went to the pay phone right. You know there's a lot of factors here. Forty percent seems high like had a Christmas parade in your town.

The pretty good chance a couple of those cars we're going to catch fire in the middle of that this is insane. This is what the any cs I was finding from studying this problem. There's a university Miami study, down their rear end impact fires were quote a clear and present hazard to all pinto owners. Cain saying that are We can take another outbreak, everybody will be right, back, don't get up, we re back right after messages are I took last outbreak break it's going pretty well is a hot crowd. You got that straight by for we go to add break. We just want to remind you again: go to India says that oil to donate to the national Down syndrome, society and chuck or you can text through the number five zero one. Five five text lifeline nine dollar signing the amount you wanna give and it's that easy? Yet

doesn't need to be in or proposition it could be an and proposition totes speaking a profit

This is a word from our spots or if you love class, a guy Richie movies like Snatch in Sherlock Holmes, then you don't want to miss the gentlemen in theatres January, twenty. Fourth, this movie has at all an unbelievable all star, cast great action. Smart writing and it's funny as hell starring, Matthew, Mokanna, hey, Charlie Hottam, Henry Goulding, Michel Daiquiri, Jeremy, strong Eddie, Myerson College Feral, an Hugh grant. It doesn't get any better than this. Mokanna hey plays a king pin named Mickey Pearson, who runs a London based we'd empire when he tries to cash in and get out of the game. He puts in motion a series of schemes, bribery and black.

Now led by those trying to steal his domain out from under a guy. Richie really returns to his gang sir routes on this one, and it looks dangerously good if you haven't seen the trail is yet there hilarious an available online. Now. The gentlemen is in theatres, everywhere January, twenty fourth be sure to check it out. hey everybody we're back up alive, they get it so. The original draft of the motor vehicle safety I had had a part provided it was very controversial provided for criminal sanctions, criminal sanctions against, executives of Otto companies and the when I was here, these white deeds that were executive cities. Otto company said well

I think I dont think you really mean that right tat means we could go to prison new wondrously. I like, I think we should. We have some lobbyists on the case and then they put the lobbies on the case. They did get that lobbied out of the safety act. Unfortunately, gas enforcing. That's me talkin to you speaking for both of us Buddy and they had up with like five or ten thousand dollars, yea and nineteen. Seventy seven money, which today translates like forty grant. So, if you're in order executive, who knowingly put a dangerous car out on the can market you could face forty thousand dollars, from what we understand. That's like once one time five year was it, so it will be up to the media and the courts to force for to do something about its pinto and the boy. Did they ever drumbeat started in the right it started with Dowie right, like mortality gets, this gets Credit for

for that, the pinto go indefinitely. He definitely had a big impact, but he gets some undue credit, forgetting standard three or one to come into effect, because it came effect pretty shortly after the pinto this article came out, it turns out. Research, turn up that the Any two tier say, heads at Ford were so sick of your arguing against standard three or one. How long will it take for you guys to go you're cars too three hundred one level, which again is a twenty mile, an our rear impact that doesn't the fuel loss enforcing now seems like a big job right for years and then Don T say was, like you know it two years to design the car from scratch. Right again, this has huge mass of improvements to make it safe so for years, so that any serious and fine fine

one. Seventy seven it'll come into effect, so come just incidents, but doubtless article did have a big impact in the way of shaping public opinion. You ever sure. So what happens? Is there there's start to be some lawsuits, people that are getting burned alive and pencils and other cars? say. Well, maybe maybe we could see somebody in the duck lies very. The workers get back on track works. Does Europe charmed? Thank you for taking our forests, Jerry cut that part all right so prevents delicious good bullet blueprint. Urban buzz marketing, everyone you they don't even pay. As for that, yet

so there these people that have a job where they recreate accidents for sometimes this report, journeys for the state sometimes, insurance companies, but they re these accidents. Gonna show what went down and some of them sorry to say, and again it was a radical notion, started to say, wait a minute. I think that if you get a car wreck, you maybe we should be able to live through it, it's a radical idea, but maybe they should make cars safer. Then to San Diego Hippy, while the notion from from America everyone sort of agreed to the saying we're like you, get the car wreck and die like you got in the correct: it's your fault drivers for drivers. What you can't make cars safer in the case of an accident at sea, weird. Now, because

all we think about is out safety, but it was just on the radar Leah, Coca was not the only one, but that was thanks to Detroit like saying it's, your fault you're a dummy at, but everyone agreed to it was in in Detroit defence. At the time everybody was due role while they were more than today, so they kind of a point. But still still make the cars safer, ensure even even more back then give for sure. So these We call him accident rate. Recreational reconstruction. Reconstruction is recreation. Creationism subordinates. Zero in here. Do that any civil war reactors is three herds.

I bore alien. I went hiking, yes ever go to Sweetwater, say park, see local, show Emily, remember this, we went hiking in so and there were some civil war between actors. But it wasn't like what I know about civil Orient actors is they, though Big Battle party, or whatever its golf, and they act like it's a big war and they go bang need I don't die, bang, bang and then a sort of half its unity that I have no idea what they do. But it's a big show like going to feel like I went to one when I was a kid. I remember that, but these dudes we're just hang out. In the Woods Sweetwater stay part. They were like that of fire going and it was a those three or four people is a couple of days. A couple of Ladys,

in their outlets and they were cookin, gets like a squirrel on a spit. That's Huckabee is no organised thing. I was ass. I can buy us like a year ago like well, that's why you guys it's like back slowly into the kid, don't make eye contact. I guess I approve because it wasn't war, so that's gonna cool. It was another they were preparing for war. They were gathering their strength from squirrel. Their muskets ago fain, very strange, don't gotTa Sweetwater is by the way. Don't. Added to that of their severely there's a lot of abandoning tyres in the ravine, I'd worry general cut that capital story, a story we should keep you Jerry.

Is she dared to see the great Syria guy article in Sky recreation is that's where I was you are saying: maybe you should see the car company like Cars should be safer and people it's, not a bad idea yet begun, airy revolutionary idea. These guys we're saying the pinto in particular starting to notice a lot of charred bodies that are otherwise in perfect, shake look great the charred part right like, They don't have. Any contusions did only broken bones so, like these accidents are happening, a really low speed, maybe Finally, design file with Ford, and so the lawyers were like that sounds great, and they said circling the court houses like the flying monkeys and the wizard of OZ and dropping lawsuits done for TED and fair. As far as I bring it we're Ford,

juries are made up of like upstanding registered voters right we're gonna be fine and before when a couple at first and then he started losing on enforcement still can like we're still we're still taken the jury trial on, but the whole thing turn on this one trial in nineteen: seventy seven in Orange, county, California and Ford lost big time action. In a pin toke case here they lost, and this is in seventy seven. They lost a hundred and twenty five million dollars. It damages to a boy name, he's thirteen years old, richer Grimshaw was very soon. These burn very badly and the drive the car died and a hundred and twenty five million bucks back. I mean it's a lot of money now, but back then, the tunnel and it's what they call you ve heard of like a symbolic award. Where does company with a ton of turn money in their way gets reduce, but care about is that the media knows that they get

with this type of money right that was sort of the case. Here I got reduced to three and a half million bucks. It is still the still pretty yes there's a lot of money back then, of course, that initial figure like a really made a point and sent shock waves through the auto industry yet and so forth, changed its tactics like ok, well, maybe we'll start settling and it would another cloak and chuckled. We bear so, if you don't mind yeah? This is an attorney for forward, I read in the Voice of Lionel Heights of the citizens. The grateful Harbin Eureka we'll never go to a jury again, not in a fire case juries adjust to sentimental, They see those charred remains and forget. The evidence no sir, will settle

that is He wasn't overheard saying that a tv reporters stuck a microphone in his face and he said that that was his coat. You, like Amazon, Alexa, didn't over here at home and later exactly so form is, like ok, kill that guy. Here we go to start sidling, and so they did so silently. There's some benefits to settling will there's some drawbacks to one is day, tells the entire world that you know your cases terrible, but it says well, there's can be lower pay out to the lawyers and there's going to be lower, pay out to the defendants in it. Concerning discovery, so discover if you go to jury the plaintiff, the person filing the case has

legal access to any and all documents that you have that prove their case against you write. So, with all these jury, trousers, steady trickle your floor, or even of yeah. I wasn't even a trick of well damning evidence coming out afford going into the hands of lawyers who are happily turning it around and handing it to the media putting on this stuff, which is getting the public just good in Drumbeat chuck was talking about started to really pick up like people. Looking forward like in this weird, like unsettling building a key way, everyone took the shirt, softened and public more pay for restoring to get a little nervous area like Amerika you Like a little weird, maybe for driving that,

you have a teacher that bordered on performance, art. Nothing so had I taken my shirt off and would have been like I'd. Do it mine you guys, who last year in blood, comes out of your mouth, and I still would take my sure, there's nothing you can do to make me take my actually. I would probably do you like my shirt, which would be that does feel good, though now we reach David Lee Wrong. I wish I had another shot. Oh, my god, So what I that is, having common values that not taking your should meet in public when people tell you too, that's normal stuff you were, you did good as one of you

Jerry cut out the last areas. Shame on all of you, hometown shoe! in the whole thing again was started by dahlias article. Not only did he get the mother Jones readership, mall talk about what we should be able to get a car from twenty miles an hour. Be a flaming death valley and the nineteen seventy seven new Pinto debuted with a very brand new safety feature that one to her one piece of plastic, You need a book. I used to think. In a happier time, there was called straight talk. There's a dolly part movie, that's called targeting a strait jacket. I gotta say you sent me this initial. So late. And by this time the dummy in general were scared to death of the saw crisis that had been growing going in the hole

again was started by doorways article. Not only did he get the mother Jones readership involved, he really kind of awaken the mainstream media to think so. Everybody was reporting on this people pursuing, for it was a huge big problem, and I They told everybody clam up. That's actually direct quote from his book is nineteen. Eighty eight book I used to think in a happier time. There was called straight talk: that's a dollar. Movie called talking a strait jacket. I gotta say you sent me this initial justice this road. This show- and he said and he said straight talk, and I was like the dummy part and plainly I felt so. I never get around it and ever saw the movie. That would be great universe, straight on. Now exhausted, is going to be your movie crash pick?

maybe that's buzz mark of it. Now I have to do is known so yells got talking street. In the end, Think straight. Talk might have been the workings idle again, but he says, like we were so afraid of this pr crisis, bankrupting forward. Imagine that this is a said. No one talk, don't talk to anybody, just climb up and they thought if somebody said something the wrong way and like there was a scary turn of phrase or something that was taken the wrong way. It would you ve, seen as an admission of guilt. The problem was to the public that, the fact that they weren't talking's was seen as an admission of guilt. More than anything, it was a big deal like sixty minutes was literally knocking at the door. Morally safer was at Ford, knocking

at the door and he said Morley safer and if you're not intimidated. Now I got at Bradley with me. We sent to our best it's so you should be pretty worried. Informed was crouched down under their window. This money is used to love. Sixty minutes we don't want any more. When I was thirteen, it's such a weird showed a watches occurred. Sophisticated was not sophisticated, apparently What was that I don't know what I'd Adela Gilbert, then after they dislike her like her jail well, twelve and also now think about things came on after either, like the wonderful World Disney or there was great or while kingdom or something.

No, no that it, sir, there was a full house was on their those like the nineties, your way off, but I'm so old. Do you see this beard so much grey? I would like the Davy Crockett story. Our was at one. There's make their warm battles. Knight rider as a good good themes that this devolved until I really your favorite old thing, ground was very calmly really and so a nineteen seventy eight in June they started their own recall proceedings and sixty minutes on on the door. There knock in their knocking and Ford says: you know it We can undertake a voluntary recall, I very much believe that built that will make us look so good of one point four, and if we mentioned the Pinta was a big big seller like this,

all this it was a super super popular car. It was like the best selling sub compact of the seventies. Very much was it was it's one donor, writers, current stranger things too was at work, are answering you things while I remember, but they feature the pinto and stranger things. Do knight rider, spoiler thanks alive. Now I know a car she drowned I'd sooner. They undertake a one point: four million car recall on the pencil alone, but also another car. They had write them we bobcat right, which is its like More luxurious, be equally deadly twin.

And we're not quite sure like what made it so luxurious acts. Maybe have like an on board like Blowdryer Brown hair one year ago at home, lower that at least the backseat they do said. The thing from the Hare plays a disunited lowers area is the pinnacle of luxury that we can think of the nineteenth century, tat unless the seventies, The bad news is that this is very sad, stopped laughing between the time for decided to undergo that recall in June and the time told consumers like internally needs that are a June will do this September. We announced to the public in those few months. Those very very soon The crash rear, rear rear end you need another. Sir. A rearing impact where were some young women died, and there was a prosecutor in Indiana Name Constantino, they said

You know what I've had it done another day I'm gonna bring these dudes on trial for murder, murder, like you criminal homicide charges against the executives at Ford for that crash, yeah very big deal yet so, and it wasn't just like a flash in the pan like this trial. Actually or these charges waited trial, it was over three years, and the three years, every Bowes reporting on foreign executives on trial for murder every day, and they did I just got dismissed, but the path criminalizing affords executives were was huge, like it was a bad pr crisis before that it could get worse than that. Directives on trial for my right yet for sure. So, despite all this, despite the fact that the pinto was a flaming death trap to a certain extent, when you the numbers today, and when you look at the real statistics,

It was not much worse in some better than their cars on the market and in time that kill you from fire like the vigour or the Kremlin, kill you right. So we trying to figure out and actually it turns out. There is this ninety ninety three article Harvard LAW Review where this guy said I've done math of actually figured it out and here's the number I came up with it was twenty seven twenty seven people, probably the number of people who died in low speed, rear collision impact fires in pink, and that's ever like ten years here. Like millions of cars, twenty seven south, actually right Weighing less than I think, mother Jones, like five, the nine hundred- and this is so Mother Jones. They said there was a conservative estimate that area dismayed,

and then think. Sixty minutes, chucks beloved sixty minutes, like thousands of people, have died and potatoes. No one knew so they re just making numbers. But this ninety ninety three article said knows: probably twenty seven actually exactly so in the we look back in the pinto was even What could have been? If I mean death trap, what it really was was a very bad add victim of pr yeah, you know yet so like the problem. Was that the way you dying pinto was just too bad to be allowed to continue right, the idea like, if you ve, gotten a rearing collision and that they, is your filled up with gas? That's bad enough, But the idea that it could happen in such a low speed that you would still be conscious when you caught fire and burned to death the american public set up that can happen. It doesn't matter So thanks to doorways article and sixty minutes away

Billy pressure. The the pinto was basically way to waste as far as the american public was concerned, and still has a bad rapid Since today that's right in the end, the pinto took the rear impact, but not now I'm going away down the gangway in every kind about the true, never thought about that so any in Mr Lee, I Coca would go on to write his legend with Chrysler Corporation bringing them back from. The brink of bankruptcy into a huge success in the nineties in the eighties, and he was named, I think, by portfolio magazine as IE. Eight the greatest ceo of all time, just a opera.

Both seem over appear. You do but a couple of books wrote that by visa just talked about the Dolly part did not star in and another whereby the leaders gone and Mr Cook has still live today. The ripe old age of ninety two in Bel AIR Neighbourhood, of LOS Angeles, California, where there is nearly pinto to be found for heights and that is the story of the portmanteau pretty well Chuck yeah if you want to get in touch with us for any reason you can t to us at as wide as Cape POD cast. I met Josh, I'm Clark and I also have a website called. Are you serious clerk, dotcom checks on face

Charles W Chuck Bryant or at if you should know you email us an jerry to stuff Podcast House, diverse dot com. And as always joined us at home on the web, stuffy should know that furthermore, on this- and thousands of other topic is the House of lords. Today's episode is brought to buy zoom. There's nothing like meeting face to face and there's nothing like zoom to make that happen. Zoom connecting do business across town or around the world, zoom together. All of your communication needs into one easy platform for video conferencing phone calls, group chat, weapon hours and your conference rooms and connect easily from anywhere your mobile phone. Your laptop or conference room zoom business gets done,

you are free account at zoomed outcome today- meet happy with Zoom