Hey folks, another busy weaker, politically charged legal news, making the headlines jury. Action is under way in the trial of Derek chauvinist, the former police officer charged with killing George Floyd Meanwhile, the New York State Assembly is launching an Piedmont investigation into Governor Andrew Cuomo following allegations of sexual harassment and the misreporting of Kobe, nineteen nursing home deaths, ten million. I discuss all this and more on the cafe insider podcast today, we're sure clip from the episode with listeners of stay tuned to hear full conversation? access all other cafe insider content, try the membership free for two weeks. You can do that at Kate COM insider- that's Cathy dot com lash insider and for a limited time you can get fifty percent the price for an annual membership by using code, justice, college student, the valid got you you email can had to cap. It all comes last student. And sign up at a lower rate. Again, that's capita

slash student. We look forward to having you as part of the insider community. I'm so the other. The other case that is drawing national attention, as it should is the trial of office, former officer Dirt Chauvelin, who killed George Floyd, the the jury. Such a process is going pretty quickly. The trial was scheduled, begin on March. Ten here here we are on March and and this might change even during the course of the day. But nine jurors have already been selected, and I think the goal is to have twelve who sit plus, I think for alternates so they're going faster than expected, even though there's been a rigorous vetting process. Lengthy jury questionnaires lots of questions, about whether or not people can be fair because the case has been so much in the news this motion to delay the trial of maybe also change a venue abroad. And by the officers, defence lawyers. Because, among other things- and this is what I've been dying,

Ask you a week. Just a couple of days ago, the city Minneapolis announced a settlement with George Floyd's family in connection with his. Death to the tune of twenty seven million dollars and what that does to the jury, pool what that does to the fairness of the trial of astronaut compound questions in What do you make of the speed of jury selection, the settlement and the impact on the trial Miss judge the speed that this would go out. I thought you know three weeks might not even be enough, and so I thought it would take longer, so it is moving faster than I expected. I would a tribute that to the judge, who is as no nonsense as you get a judge K Hell. He was, I think he was a deputy when Amy Closure was now a senator from Minnesota when she was the day he's a lot of experience as a prosecutor. He also experience as defence lawyer clearly you know he's described by his former lobby.

Nurse and others as extremely decisive right, and so it's very clear to me that he's just moving through this quickly so but it is moving with with speed on the second point, bout, the twenty seven million dollar settlement. I wanted to ask you about this as well as you for not paying. I know I know, but you could not pick a crazier time to room lease that which, by the way, everyone should understand that these conversation would have begun shortly after George Foud was murdered. Last may so This is it. Is it like this idea of there being a civil settlement between the city and the family George Floyd. It wasn't like this idea just happened last week. These are the family was presented, I believe, shortly after Floyd's floats death and so what my I sense is: I am curious to know yours is that the city understood that if you wait until after the trial, depending on the outcome of the trial. The settlement could be the exchange or there could be. Arguments at the settlement should be more. There could just

lot of sort of politics around the settlement, so it in an ideal world. It fills me like you do it, you know you do it before a trial. I I think or you do it far after. But the sort of right on the eve of trial felt really strange to me and probably not well thought through. Yes, that's. initial reaction in also worry about the overall fairness of the trial and had it infects the jurors economic, some sense right settlements happen in in cases even trial, but usually that settlement is in connection with the actual trial is taking place. This is a pair a thing, but it's obviously very related because there's risk for size rights to the extent. You're negotiating with the final number should be- and I hate to be crass about it, because no amount of money is going to bring back towards Floyd, but there is a it is about money if the trial goes one way this element before a hired in an even higher number. If the trial a different way. Then the risk shifts to the other party

the settlement could be for a lower number, so both sides some inclination to want to finalize this before the criminal trial, because, although settlement and the trial or two separate, distinct things running parallel. One has a bearing, on the other hand, to be fair to the city, you think they also probably would like to close this chapter, as their case goes to trouser as do right by the family right and european fail it, but they they should have its the kind of thing where it does make. You scratch your head, because this is the kind of thing where it wasn't a secret when the trial was starting, and you would think that the city in the city attorneys would have tried to have the case settled far in advance of the US, or at least a month or two ahead. Like that, the problem that they've created and again it gave the defense or an opportunity to stand up and say you know. There was just a full round of press around twenty seven million dollar settlement and that settlement implies that the city in and fairly so that the city has accepted responsibility for wrongdoing and when you

Dollar, sign, like twenty seven million, it's fair to assume that there's you know, there's an assumption of significant wrongdoing by the city and so that for a defendant, hoo hoo in a defence or who sang, I wanna, make sure my client gets a fair trial and that people dont think he's guilty before we start that's the kind of thing that you would want. Ability to ask jurors about like does- does the fact that the city pay twenty seven million dollars change your view of whether or not he's guilty or innocent. And can you put that aside and coming to Europe your last point d, he's gonna is gonna have to bring the jurors back to ask him about this, and so Judge K. Hell said the boy he was ruling. He didn't immediately rule on this request to sort of change change. Or to push the trial back, but he said quote. I wish city officials would stop talking about this case so much and he agreed that the developments work concerning, and so you know again don't want to make it more complicated for everybody in that courtroom, and I think the city did.

And again I'm not saying it was a mistake to get it done before the trial. So much as the timing really puts everybody, I think in a tough position. No there's another wrinkle, and you- and I talked about this last week- and you made a great point with respect to this issue as well, and would the murder, in the third degree charge be reinstated? Member prosecutors initially brought a third degree murder charge that was thrown out. It went up on appeal The processors really want that charging, even though its a lesser charge to murder the second degree, in the reason they wanted in this we discussed it may better fit with the evidence and it gives jurors a choice and modern third degree just remind foe. Is proven when someone quote causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently to to others and a depraved depraved mind without regard for human life, and you be be in pre for not more than twenty five years and you have the odd circumstances apply It is asking for the lesser charge to be in not the defence lawyers and

lay in the last few days since we last recorded this programme. The judge has reinstated the third degree charge which is in dealing with respect to what the ultimate result will be, but is also interesting in connection with this. We were just having you actually see. Some jurors, who were seated for they knew that there was this additional charge and that's in a worrisome in and there's reporting. That suggests that the prosecutors them helps have been worried that that have been resolved before the seating, a particular jurors. I would be reed. I think you probably would be too and again. Just so folks understand you, you want to make sure that the trial, if there He is convicted that the conviction stands, that there be no basis to argue that the trial has to be done over for a variety of reasons. You always want that to be the case- and I think even more so here with such a high profile- and you know difficult case to tee Right of India, and I mean difficulties in the sense that I think it's

going to be emotional and hard for everyone, and so one of the things I would probably do, and I assume that the prosecutors in the judge will do here is that they already have to bring back of the jars, and this is not- I yeah, but I would why dear them on both this question of the civil settlement, also on adding border in the third degree, because I again, I think you want the record to be clean. You dont want there to be any potential issues and and people understand there always issues and trial. There always appellate issues. There always things that happen, but what you want to do is sure there are as few as possible and that if you see them as are happening, you fix them. One other quick point pre that it's worth noting that the second degree murderer, carries a potential sentence of up to forty years. Third degree is a potential sentence, as you said, of up to twenty five years and man slaughters up to ten years, and so there is a significant delta between those three charges and you're talking about. In of the the differ,

Since being being fairly significant and so again, the jury won't understand, sentencing ramifications. But in terms of understanding, the prosecutors want that sort of option. The third degree, because there's potentially large sentence that would go with that and it's obviously murder conviction, not manslaughter. So it's more significant conviction and the defence would like to take out that that sort of middle option and sort of forced the jury to decide between, is it intentional or is it basically sawder or is it an or is it not of those? And so it again it just or of I think interesting for folks to think about the strategy that that goes out behind this year to room point more about the applicability of murder and the third and look, I think, there's a very good chance to get murder in a second. But how much the prosecutors probably feel that third degree murder fits is read to folks. What is the potential instruction to the jury at the collusion file? That comes from another case

in Minnesota and enjoyed will probably be instructed along these lines, told you know that you have murder in the third. If Derek Shoguns, intentional act was eminently dangerous to human beings and was performed without for human life, jurors will also be told quote. Such an act may not be specifically intended to cause death and may not be specifically directed at the particular person. Death occurs but is committed in a reckless and want in manner with the now that someone may be killed and with a heedless disregard of that happening. End quote I'm guessing the prosecutors are thinking. The defense will loudly argue that even no Chauvelin had his knee on the back of the neck of George Floyd there were lots of signs that this could potentially cause George Floyd's death, it's necessary to show the intended. The death all necessary to show that he was doing this without regard for human life, and

reckless. In doing so, that's just easier, that's a charge that they have in the bag and they'd like to be able to have that one in the bank right Yes, I agree with that very much an end, as you sort of have have noted with murder. In the second degree, you have to have the intent to affect the death of that person and where that will become the defence will argue a mean, and we should talk just for one second about what the potential defences are, because they ve already they ve already. I think shown that a bit jury section, but the the way to think about second degree is that what the defence will our Is that officer show, then he legitimately had the right to bring George Floyd to the ground. His intent was to bring him to the ground to subdue him because he was resisting or whatever the officer, say undergoing argue, his intent was not to murder George Void, and so what has the prosecution has approved? Is that, even if You know- and I dont know whether they'll concede that the original intent was was lawful to bring him to the ground there going. Are you at some point during that nine plus minutes the intent change to murder,

We have to address an issue that just doesn't exist when you think about the murder in the third degree, it just it's different, the depraved mind and without regard for human life, the defence just really quickly. I mean that this sort of preview, I think we're seeing a little bit is this idea that Floyd had underline conditions and may have also what we know that the officers believe that he was high, that he was and The toxicology lab came back with with sentinel, and so he had fence on his system and the defence is going to argue that you know Sir Chopin didn't commit this. This murder that George Floyd died because of these other. These other things, that's gonna, be a part of the argument to video in ten argument, depending on which charges their attacking at a particular moment, and then, as you say, they're going to have a causation argument that it was actually, the knee in the back the cause, the deaf

It was this other stuff and the narcotic in his system and probably will be calling experts and others, and that will be a fight. A trial so one of the other topics of conversation related to this murder trial. That's going forward, is Bill Barr and that it's been reported that when he was attorney general, he rejected a guilty place that had been negotiated by thanks for listening to hear the full episodes headache they D come slash insider try. The membership free for two weeks use the code justice for fifty percent of them? seven annual membership interests with a valid dot eating you email can had to cap it. All slash student. To the many of you who have chosen to join the insider community, thank you for supporting our work