Skip the commercials support star talk on patriarch to listen to every episode, commercial free. I am the other aspects of your personal astrophysicist. The startup network is pleased to present to you, a U show where the universe them sports, and now I am so nice. I am going to light and we are the host of playing with science ready for it. Bulgaria rightly, and I'm sure this is playing with science. If it seems, is full of networks, so we coca so we

and then for some of us one is not enough. We have to find more yes that will be seven to be exact. Each the highs on each of the seven continents and because it still met him up? Some of us have to do a quicker than anyone, else before them. Yes, that is some of us, and our special yesterday is a rock star of the highest order. Vanessa. O Brien is the owner of the seven summits world record, but even that was not She has conquered came to, and this is scary, sir, I think up ever said, the mountain that claims, one in four who attempted and she has ski the last degree of both poles no tell just for kicks in Google, As we know, those submitting is incredibly dangerous for your healthier, really no kidding check. If you had to pick who would be your best mountain,

I'm gonna go with God himself, because as the only way you will find me on a mountain, it will be a cold day in Hell. No, actually I want somebody who's. A train position, especially a medical emergency train physician with a good. Bedside manner and better to be. There then doctor, when o ram, who was one of only two currently registered in the? U S a he will no doubt, along with his medical knowhow, be bringing us insight into high altitude science experts before we get to the good doctor, that's made a very special get showy. Rocks are of the highest order and you knew exactly what I meant by that Vanessa, o Brien why so great a hammer here be here guys I gotta tell ya of next year. Tested first world. So I would say: time on you tube

I thank you and the climb. Another footed, view when you know I have to say that I was cold and tired, exhaustive her after watching the video, it is. It is a monumental undertaking. Any summit. Somebody ask your everybody says k to is the hardest, so I'm gonna go completely opposite was the easiest well so of these seven summits, the easiest is probably cosy, ask of and that's in Australia, higher, yes, Australia, so you mentioned seven summits so right there I'll have to hedge and say: there's, there's really, eight there's really and that's because there's two sets of southern summits and where I like to call

the CIA, seven summits. So there's a seventh summit choice for the haven't summits, ok based on two lists, there's the bass list and the Messner list occur the Bass list based on Richard Dick Bass, who, as a business man who was the first to come up with the concept of the seven summits, He was a layman. Looked out, a map of the world naturally looked and choose when looking at continents Australia as the seven summit and therefore cause which is seven thousand three hundred ten feet, not much larger them at Washington occur. That are being a mountaineer looked at Australian said but take longer to fly their than to climate and It's really wasted time, so he d The notion of Oceana or Australasia us and therefore chose Constance Pyramid is the seventh summit, therefore, the CIA, which you know stands for of your ass,

I was going to set so yes, so if you want to do both less you would effectively do. Eight railways was accustomed pyramid that's western new guinea, which is poor. So it's the old Irian Jaya and are quite difference because sixteen thousand fifty feet. So imagine, seven thousand sixteen thousand and the master list of curses pyramid. He entered It's the only rock claiming Kay, in the seven summit series, so very, very different choice of different, so to get from challenge held together? Let s go back to the beginning. You were born a rock climate. A mountaineer. I'm guessing you wake up my morning and say I'm doing it. I'm gonna be a mountaineer, its first is key to what have you got, bring it on then what happened card just say of packing, bag. I'm off I'll, see you in a year. Have you how about the process of preparing, because

make your way down to the local playground and start on the monkey bars or mean ok. So there is no there's book knowledge right that we can all gain through research, and that's great. Everybody should undertake that. That's for free There is experiential knowledge. You have to go out and do it you have to make those mistakes there. Really there courses per se in mountaineering the way you- and I may take a course. Motor racing or something like that in these in these car schools, or something that teach you how to drive it doesnt really work like that, so the best do as is really just sign up for something where you have to and put on that catch. You have to learn what harnesses you have to learn. What a helmet is. You have to learn what crampons our how they work and enough just start. Use them and start to make those mistakes serve the bad ones. Well, you you

I hope that by the time you get into a bad situation, you have accumulated knowledge and experience where you're not going to blow it or do something to dangerous. What is the appeal once once you wanna say, mastered once you ve got a grip. Truly the law of the things you need to know. What's the shrill? What's, the appeal was to drive behind in wanting to summit one of these big peaks. Well, I dont know really of of much. I don't know of any. That's that's a harder challenges. It's kind of you know an versus nature. You know it's it's it's much more physical, it's it's a mental, mental, spiritual, physical. It's like everything that could put we be put on the table is out there with that challenge. There's nothing that I know of, that you can do, otherwise that can really give you entire challenge in your life, so

there's, no one, there's no assignment at work that you can be given. Let's say that case. Really you in that in that same way, does each mounting teach you something different about you yeah teaches you something different about you about. I, your teams about Europe, You work with others nature. Teaches you sent in all sorts of things. So when you talk about ok, so the k to summit you are the first woman to successfully summit and by successful I mean to go up and return, because, incorrect really. You said first woman, that's not true! I'm the fiftieth woman and the first American and and all of us are the first american and british woman right. Then that is the state There are more women who have gone to space and have submitted K to correct times more, as that does that kind of put things in perspective.

That's brilliant, that's pretty incredible! A hundred and fifty women have into space right and only fifty have have actually summit to write and now But there are american women that have come before you that have reached the top right, never, never, okay, so where to british woman who got to the top and data and they died at the top, which is why I said that one in four, so so so that was some two lists and Elsie Hargraves ripe, and so it It does show that you, Very dangerous pursuit is eighty five send it does happen on the way down, so that such

Kay too, though, that could be a sea eight thousand meter peak, we have sent out the sound, they say the same thing about Everest as well as not getting up is getting down. That's that's really! I is that. Why is it that? Because you think that there's intuitively it would seem that less energy needed to get down it would seem that there is less. You You exert yourself less, I mean an that's. Only because all of us have climbed a tree when we were a kid and we know how hard it was to get up there and then you know: Getting down is not the hard part case arise, so we're playing with science. So, let's take a step back. Ok, let's go with you, air we breathe take a breath, New York I'd rather not win the studio could be safer, absolutely right, so whether you're on the radio with us now or whether you the studio now. Seventy eight percent,

The air we breathe is what no pollution it is. It is a gas, nitrogen right, nitrogen correct. Seventy eight percent of the air we breathe is nitrogen. Twenty one point: I m per cent, is because give you a generally okay, so that's primarily two things. The trick trees. Gases for the rest is argon, sealed to everything else that the air we breathe that that is the same at sea level as it is on the top of Everest. So what changes? I had something changes, but it's not composition of air re changes as pressure. Ok, so the higher we climb, the lower the atmospheric pressure, so all when we're sitting here, there's lots and lots of these molecules, and we, when we take a breath, there's lots of molecules that, Inter system, when we're at the top mountain all these Molly

tells are so spread upon, stretched out. That's why you see a climber take one breath, one molecule comes in their huffing and puffing. Another molecule comes in hunting and puffing. More painful they watch engulf. So it's funny because what you just said There- and it is really fast name because most people say when you climb. Mountain there's no oxygen of their into thin air has ever into thin air there's no oxygen up there, but you see in the mysteries, say, mixtures the same. The reason it's ten air is because the pressure fretting about molecules apart and they for its, positions the same. It's to set. These molecules are now bodies working harder to bring burying. It would well it's yet here is gender exertion, of course, but here you know if I were to draw like all these molecules, like really close together. Now, pressure spread them all apart you, not getting regular, go you getting it so now. What is the body do?

because the buys very clever we're going higher and its sensing, you don't have what you need oxygen tank building red blood cells also goes into an automatic defence mechanism. A global starts producing more and more red blood cells. Naturally, Where have we heard this before blood blank doping, Ding la doping go there stood Oh, it's you How I feel about gold ring, so it's free its natural, in its necessary that were getting appeal, which is a completely natural, It stimulated by the kidneys. This is something mountaineers are getting as we climb higher natural. Stimulated- and this is what we are getting- is the nice red blood cells to help us with this accident deprivation? The problem is that this thick acts

Then that's now in our blood system is really really thick and put twice the risk for a heart attack and stroke it's something good, but there's a shadow and that shadow is that thickness right so we were really really really really hard to get to the top. Give all this energy to get there. And people will say hey you know. Sometimes people burn all that energy to get and they don't need that reserve. So in that eighty five percent, Just a comes in the given everything thinking, summit is the goal of the summit is never the goal right. It's round trip returned for return. No notice, there's no saying with programme to pre programmed to get to the top of the mountain. That's it end of story it's never the goal. The goal is return trip, brown trip return of because and Hilary that Europe's sermon Hilary thought this for years. You know unless you returned. There was no point there was

a point, because there was no one to tell the tale dying. Serve no way. I told your stories. There was nothing to learn. We will take a break now, don't panic, husband S, row, Brian and still be with us.

Looking back your listing diplomas signs- and this is all very special mountaineering show. We are honoured to have strong, married Vanessa, o Brien as US special gets now, just before the break. We got stuck into what it takes to be a top mountaineer tote. Let's, even before you get to base camp, you ve got to not only prepare yourself but as a team leader, as you were and are, was tense present tense. How do you select your team? What are they?

key factors for you, strategizing to build the team that you know will successfully summit and come back again. I have never been fortunate enough to select a team because funding those cases. Their sponsorship does not really exist in high altitude mountaineering. That makes sense because it is deemed to high risk. Of course, I mean listen, think about it think about I'm I'm Nissan right I want to sponsor your team and I make a plea to do out of it and then you frickin die. I I just wasted a lot of money because I can't say a word to any body to think about Also there is. There is no better way to get that message. Being number one getting to the top the hard work that goes into driven to explore? What happened to be one of our sponsorship. The mountain right thing on putting my brand hard

and brand loyalty brand value, your percent there aren't rolling down you're, no, but it's a big risk, but it's a big pay. All it's a big path and let's supply routes, reward pay off right, the higher the rest, the higher the reward salute. However, people never, about mitigating risk. Oh here's! How you would mitigate the risk is what you pop and when you publish it, you would capture everything. Of course she would but if you are really risk averse, you wouldn't put a single thing until their expedition was finished right and then everything would go into production right. If you were very risk averse right, you would never not capture it. Of course, if you weren't risk averse, like I had it up a play with credit cards were every If you would pick pick a name and pay off a credit card bell, let's say how fun, because you get your entire, you know, customer base involve? Let's say something like that can be very consumer driven a lot of fun

but now you're a hundred percent tested engage. So you are open to taking the rest of the consumer to you guess that Vanessa has a background. And finally, ok print, but putting all that stuff aside. Ok now put the problem with these petitions. Is it there is one of economics rights which it takes x, number of people to make a trip economically Isabel okay. So what I mean by that is in choosing a team attends without sponsorship. It tends to be the number of people looking to go, and so people tend to be put to gather who have similar in of like minded balls and want to do? similar. Things have to go through psychological testing and profiling before they get onto a team no it's. Nothing like that. No, I mean it's: what are the credentials that are necessary like, for instance, there, if I just

but I would like, as a you guys, glam on a day like that's. Why I'm here? No I mean you would have to have some predicted to get on a permanent. Neither Nepal or Pakistan is the care Carmen the Himalayas you. You would have to have some climbing experience, so they are looking for every permit that they issue that every member has. You know at least climbed, thousand meter peak. Let's say if you're going to an eight thousand meter peak, this doesn't apply for the cooks or the base camp stand because they're just going to be walking, that's where those stairs there stand, Ok! So now. Let me ask you this: what can you give us when we think of teams of courses Fort shelves, but his eyes? Oh, but still sports, when we think of teams, we think of positions, ok and liking, Odin, for by your rapporteur, back of why diversity of alignment, ok and soccer you ever strike or you have other where we're going so now, when your team, don't do you have, positions and what are they responsible for what he does? What how do you Debbie

The responsibilities here I mean, and what are the responsible now everyone, We do so. You know it the team has sharper highlights two porters. Those whose team members tend to go out and investigate the route put in some of the six lines before, say team members go up to it. And the team members setting up camp so and that's because some of the sum that there are some bottlenecks in some of these areas, so Hilary step is a good one and Everest their houses chimney and and the black pyramid and came to sounds like a Harry Potter book. So when you say bottleneck, this is like extremely narrow passages ray, and so, I saw your video at one point. There was like single person passage that you were going through all in a single file. It looked absolutely terrifying, it

as not just climbing, like like yours, climbing, but it was also like rock climbing. While you were mountain climbing do can do you but that is. Would you be able to tell me where that work has been one of two the things I mean so sometimes on an end does get a little bit into to climate? so with climate change, a lot of these. So if you look at a mountain in at a distance, it looks like it's full of snow white, but when you're, you're actually on it- is full of rock and unfair over the years with with change and I would prefer that would overtake global warming. These mountains are so high. How They are they so let's talk about that, this decision in old, say eight thousand nine thousand meters or twenty six to twenty nine thousand feet. This is at the beach

very top of the troposphere all whether all whether takes place here and below so, you know when you have these jets dreams pounding on these mountains, that two hundred three hundred miles an hour principle all the stones just getting ripped off. You ve also all these spinner really really hot, whether son baking on these mountains, melting all the snow and ice, so recently with the climate change is happening. You ve got less and less snow and ice when I The old mountaineers in the Sixtys and Seventys, who are still alive. They simply say, thank God, I'm not claiming the stuff now, because I I was wearing crampons and I had ice and snow. I have we're crampons and I'm often having to wear crampons rock, which is the wrong tool for the job. I can't switch footwear, o crap yeah, big crab. We know

she said you impolite to say very nice, bang you'd. What are you to also So you know really to turn to your question. It's just it's very hard when there's a lot of rock and you're in these single style positions, because the traffic is the same way up as it is down to end and if you are at a really high altitude, you aren't. You are stock of somebody's taking an hour to get up there you're an hour behind them with two, what what we all learning why am? I certainly never want to do this that we know- and I might not be far behind you over the course of decades. Mountains have changed desert to the climate change issue, but I guess from day to day basis. This thing off. Has his own life force and the mountain you start climbing at the beginning of the day, isn't the mountain

our voice. You today, at the end of the day, how on earth do you plan for our two hour to do with? Basically what is a living rock? well, this is a big deal on Everest. Ever a start has the coup ice, all which is the first thing on a base camp. So it's a three thousand foot shifting maze of clay, Shaw ICE that is constantly shifting and moving, so it becomes very dangerous to get through it, because many people turn around to go off. That's it! That's a get it now that the others there's been people. Sixteen people killed in one day, parents rocks crown and get right on top of them. So pipe most dangerous part of the whole mountain Actually is right at the beginning, so that's that to has its little idiots Greece's funny enough first, the sheer had the highest number of summits ever on the record of history and twenty eight

Eighteen, it had seven hundred summits surpass twenty. Eighteen, I think was the previous record, so was set up as a rush hour. Well, it seven hundred is a lot lot of people in one lotta people out a lot of people in one season. I've seen them actual pictures of that were it looks like the people are lined up in Congo line going up, and I say this because in the past they have this. You know the sharper community that They are so good at being able to take people up at an by the way have the highest rate. Involved because they're all he's going before and as a result, they are the most susceptible to avalanche and you have a great many of the people in the community who are dying so that tourism can actually go up Everest. You know

believe last year, the year before they now allow equipment to be helicopter. To camp one, so the shirburn not taking their equipment and God so there's there's a change that will of environmental effects, though, because you know I don't know that helicopter, probably helicopters don't belong there, but you notice really what should happen as and it's a shame that has become such a part of their economy. What should happen? Is we simply to people like you should be this people like me, who want to go to a cocktail party and talk about it should be like mountaineers, I don't mind certain other people who are doing it for research people who are doing it to write about it like purposeful, something which I call it. That makes sense to me while in your start somewhere. So I think it depends what you're, what your purpose,

is in wanting to do it right. So you know, if somebody who is what's to really train hard and in open with the right way ahead. From what that I have a problem because you're making a commitment that I'm saying it's, it's like, if you're making a commitment about somebody who, just you know like wants to say I did it, I would say to it just says they can tell us what story at a cocktail party gets a little, I'm a little, I gotta know probably get it sounds like it less than that's not cool said. There's no doubt about that Take a break, will have you can stay with us right absolutely, and I got a regional quote: do you notice french outpost? His name is gas storm Revolvah Rebel Father and we are now well, sir, is away made that producer is France Johnny, as it gets thrown rebel for inclusive

close enough. They prefer stowaways as there's this, I really hate. So this is what this is. What he said now provide a mirror of stone and eyes a mirror which helps. No ourselves regional mountain summit requires that we confront reflection. We find in the storm, mirror working, all that is weak, lazy and fearful with an hour. So do you agree with that? I think that's. A great quote! I know one. I always go back to is Reinhold Messner who says mountains, aren't fair or unfair, they're, just dangerous. I like that. I have several girlfriend fit that description.

If you could substitute girlfriends for mountains, oil already and MRS Nice is listening to me. Mrs nice was the last he's. Gonna keep his mouth shut. Let's take that break grimacer, o Brien fabulous for Mister, o Brien will be with us and will be speaking to one registered mountaineering, guys, who is a qualified position, an abortion. That's all when we gave you do know.

exploring with science, as you will be more than aware, should be missing from the beginning. We do hope, you're Vanessa, o Brien, lady Hoof, submitted the seven summits faster than anyone else in the world. A guineas give us what a world record holder with us and still with us, but now we are honoured to have Doktor Alan Autumn on the show one of only two registered mountaineering guides in the? U S and the? U S, survey that is a registered physician.

And in particular emergency medicine, physician. Yet so doktor welcome to play with. So. How are you I'm fine? Thank you. You're! Welcome, if you actually on a mountain where the two what is the most common sort of predicament or from that you face as froze your concern. I think I mean I I help people with a bright, they think it attitude to the problems that up most climbers experience. I do have to do without them to the summer obvious summer, less so injuries you're pretty obvious. But the question about how to donors is, I think more common thing that I get cause about or often an agency text through Satellite technology. What I think is by the most common issue that I to deal with so with

The truth is that the mass this acute mountains sickness or is there something different. To massacres. This is one of the common, a form out. You know miss. There's also has its rebate, Deemer and highly. Oh Mary, a dilemma. This is more common like job you don't we didn't die for man, s side, Al Capone, Redeemer It would be the thing that would really cannot do you as well as his first rubella deem. But that's it you ve been there. A number of occasions. How do you self need yourself. Do you say no? No, that's not a problem. I can get through this or do you have to go? I need I need to deal with this now. If you get this acute mountain signet, if you get these conditions, how how do you

deal with is, first of all in the Kyoto to medical kids, we do carry medicine, so things like tat. Some methods on an affair, pain as that is all a minor dire marks. Did these are tools in the tool kit, if you will for emergencies if they occur, hopefully you don't have to use there there. If you need them, you know you have to remember. In many cases and in the Himalayas the care Coreham work we're miles and miles or what three hundred miles from the close this hospital, and there is no helicopter rescue and in places like Pakistan, they dont have helicopters for honey higher, for example, their fighting wars in other there's other uses for helicopters there. So we have to be sufficient with that with the medicine so and believe it or not.

Others other medicine like by a groan which may sound funny to you, but I've heard of that. But that's it! You know it's a vessel die later. As you know, it is important because it because you never know When things might get thats the on a map it's very no. No, no. You won't mountain there's. Never never! That trust me. People don't think you can vote it up. The mountain don't take showers as if this is not the sexy time. This was actually time on the mounted a sexy time does so doctor a vessel dire later by the way, actually increases blood flow, so that can be very important, especially when you're in I ought to tube scenario. Bulgaria said the doktor in own can take it from there, but we need all those things because if the emergencies some rise them, you know we have them for if and when they occur so dark. Let me ask you this when it comes to Andrews

falling, I would say, is something you don't wanna do why you're climbing, but people far and they entered them. So now that we're talking about these type of illnesses that can be set a person at these attitudes. These kind of to sickness is just one point, but other does a person gets sick and they fall is. Is that that is that a common occurrence that out whose sickness actually causes a person to fall like, like, Somebody breaks a hip as normal you're broken. Then you fell, people think you broke it because you failed normally it's your hip broke a major force so with which one is Our common is it just human error, the causes of personal follower, illness caused the personal fall. I would say, is probably human, error and movement already lack of ability to pay for people to move in a smooth ashen generally, it please Figured eight thousand eater peaks

those routes have fixed lines, they always attached to rob, but sometimes or not, and cancer. Volunteers yourself It does not only to the other either. I really think that fatigue, and having headaches and a Emma symptoms really can contribute, but I'm not so sure that there's one always begets the other. I think it is simply falling with that, because you can't very well, because of fatigue Elevation, crampons, ass ice services. I thank all those things contribute: ok, ok. What what? While you pair of you here? Firstly, hypoxia if you can explain doktor exactly what that is and then sort of sort of mine effective. What is the science and the physiology behind this condition? So as I understand, that is any of our listens. You don't already know a

The Abuja lack about gender delivered to the to the body, whether that's true something central or peripheral, and so in high altitude on this woman will gain attitude is less about. Oxygen, because it is because the low pressure such dead you're not breathing normal amount of action, it normally with safe sea level. The affair That is that your body has to work harder to do work that it only. We have to do at altitude and so the things that they happen. With hypoxia? so the body A combination of problems such as am ass, Kelly, disability, Emma pulmonary dilemma as well, which sought a type of up demur,

does related to hypoxia an elevated pressures in the pulmonary bases in heart, so fuel. The guide on an honest summit and you obviously looking have to your own self interests, but you have a duty to the people you have with you. Difficult. Is it for you as mountaineer and a doctor to manage those things in the best way, that's a good question. I think that dumb up as a guide it, I think you have to be so- very aware of how you feel and higher performing at altitude in it. There is, possibilities to make sure they die you, your safety, is paramount. If you're not save your clients are unsafe, oh I'd taken care of yourself. You did your medication or decision making may mean going down. Maybe

rodent and, I think that's a tough thing, especially would you go out finances etc? make a decision as decision? I think I attended be very conservative when I'm climbing and I will attend to go back before I go forward. If I'm not feeling right in my amazing performances off but a pay attention that, because the safety about myself in the team interesting. Thank you for that before you you go on a climb. Can you talk to us about the medical condition that a person to be in before they even attempt something like this I mean I would assume that there is a good and bad candidate for climbing. What makes you what makes you a bad

candidate, like you, and I am only a few people. If you put my face up the back entity, I will not be disappointed or offended. I think tat, I that's it is an excellent question and one with a face, frequently maybe nodded said very, very high altitude. But where I work here in the teutons, it said I think people's perception of what about to do. What they want to do is different. Then reality meaning the peoples people's fitness is definitely not always the best. I think that when people come into these situations, they really have to decide. Are they gonna train or not in it maybe just disappear. The simple decision, it tastes, work of chauvinism, hard for all those of peace. She did. Success is paramount to business.

Vanessa. So is there fit and then the mountain fit and how how do you get from one to the other, how you train so of it? That's what I'm doing so. I think eight thousand metres is a little bit different because to me at some. That's really about go to MAX and it's about the utilization of oxygen, so the best training for high altitude is is really cardiovascular. Putting on muscle a lot of muscle were what will work against me and what I mean by that is when It is a limited resource, the brain and the lungs must have that and muscle will compete right that so I need to have the highest beer to me I can possibly achieve and be cardio vascular fit. If I put on, if I'd become, Mr Atlas are,

ports and Agar something like that, I'm going to fail black! you got the man that muscle will. That must overcome fear for the oxygen I didn't come for object to the mountain, sorry Paypal! So right now, if I'm playing sleds and I'm going to the North pole, I need so. I am not claiming very high, so I'm training very, very different angle, so to do with white, interesting, consistent, you got a whole that extra weight, albeit muscle well you're, not in where is your slating you're going horizontally it or less, it's very deceiving when you're claiming really really high altitude. You are not carrying a lot await, not as much weight as you think you are you're carrying enough from that final camp. Let's say whatever camp do end up at and there is the same for the summit. You know you'd you're with oxygen oxygen might way ten pound something like that. You got maybe to water.

Or maybe a thermos change a clothes. You you're not caring as much weight as you think you are so in open, but but if your point sleds you are carrying out his wages to to get to a condition where you fell in control and comfortable. What what let me put it? Another way you, you must show up in your best. Your best fitness self right and any endeavour which, which means that you have strength that you have flexibility. You have good a good core, because you know you're not gonna have a good balance, in many occasions. So you must. You must show up as your best fitness self well,

but you should understand what you're undertaking and that the difference in training for that. So that's the physicality. You dont you climb with your body. Surely you must engage a mental process and not just I'm seeing I'm doing it bar and the doktor complete a test. This may have touched on If I am a complete nutcase on, I turn up, say: I'm gonna go and do this mountain thing. You know my mentality is nowhere near where it should be. Is it the kind of I've, got a dial everything down and become besought full, or do you have to have a different or slightly different approach than that, so fear plays an impasse? roll? You know it's an obvious mechanism that tells you something is wrong and you know kicks in when it needs to kick in, but it can also. It can also be a dub

have a and do the wrong thing to suit. So I've seen people use fear as an excuse to, and it opens. Some of these extradition at some of these expeditions are sixteen weeks writer This is a long time. Yes, so people start to cite themselves out. They start to see like bad other they start to see like avalanches. They start to like remember, you know, hey how do you control, then you can control this, the weather systems, you can't control how the mountains going to behave. That day said. The thing you can control is what goes off in here. You ve gotta, have you know a really strong focus and a mental in a mental fortitude that that keeps your focus, where it should be, which is on the on the objective, now whether it is just a wild card? So you know that reading is all over the place, but but I've seen people in Austria to spread fear about you know of the weather looks bad and it keeps

came bad and they'll be no some at ten. You know they started talk themselves out of us. But almost than they start to remember an anniversary back home and how they gotta get home, and then they start to develop it this is and suddenly You know their heads not here and when their heads not here there here so dark going home when speaking of fear so part of your training doktor. Is you know? I guess they call it. Bedside manner, but it's really psychology, if you think about it, it's like it's pretty much getting into a patient's Adam, allowing them to learn you do your job to do. You How much do you use when you're we are guiding someone or or is but they were helping someone on a tour with how much of that do you actually use will when it comes, to what what Vanessa was talking about but might cite themselves out or get afraid or freak out or something like that, I'm a time

today, more some large amount. I and dressing fear is and is. Fears is, is fundamental to workpeople after basin, the fiscal part of it. You can. You can manage. The amounts part of it is something it's it's you happy coax people into believing cells in buying their com translating too to success there now I think that it probably represents most. What we do is as guide as a guide to get people to that objective and to enjoy where they are and you're not just objective the process and the whole trip. Is this kind of more important to me than just the summit? And I trying to relate to people's really really difficult

winning get through it and people to identify their fear and arm and their weaknesses, nay, nay, overcome at their hugely successful solved. Here. You go as a physician. Vanessa has given me the impression that every time she some, Did she learned something she's face something different view protests in the similar way has high out Chewed mountaineering taught you and medical lessons of you found things that you probably wouldn't have fancied tat you see. Closer to sea level. Was sure I mean it's, it's like any any experience, the more you more experience you have and in a variety of settings the more knowledge gain travel. You the travelling- and I have said we are dealing with oak soon to have almost as a high altitude, if It is crazy, a different avenue for for learning

I mean I'm all shocked when I seen here for people when all the time- and I got a never ending let me ask both of you this. This is my last question. Ok, see you! You both are extraordinarily passionate about this, its evident, ok and your book. Proficient I'd like to know is: what can you tell me from your perspective? Why should anybody do this. You don't have Vanessa very say, ladies first rate and further, so why should anyone do this? So I think reply. I never really advocate doing this per se. I like using mountaineering as a metaphor, more than anything else, but in so taking one more step, but I do think people should get outside of their comfort zone and

but more self belief, knowing that they always have a safety net safety net is all the knowledge, skills and experience that they have acquired in life. That can actually help them pivot and do something different, because you can always go back, but what what lies ahead is unknown, so taking that knowledge skills and experience allows you to pivot. Take that you note not that much worse, that you think it is because you can always go back but trying something different. You never know what you discover your legs dangling dark the dogs like what she said now guy adopt a guy at work Did anyone do this? I think that dumb if we internalize and ask ourselves why we do it. This is This is what I've done for my almost my entire life, an impact and about it might live. My life revolves around being in the mountains and when you come to it as an older adults

or just even as a an adult. Why People come from could come to have more different rapturous one one is. It is a challenge, but I think I see a lot of people who do They just want experience something different. A comfort zone that we live in an does it betrayal is done as economic demands or death one way to challenge it to step out your comfort zone into into the box you ve never stepped into be, or its super valuable as as it grows. Process as a tool being in places urges absolutely stunning location You'll never go to again, probably so we must make our living in those environments and super valuable, to me it's it's. It's how I lived my life and I like, like others, to live their lives to in touch. We start with the surroundings them engaging thank you frankly, Vanessa made five years

at the pair of you and, at the same time be a doctor Aurora. Thank you so much for your time, but I throw Brian superstar of the world since that it chuck, and we have to show we had done we held I believe we have submitted. We have the big that's the easier and now we gotta get down that won't happen on camera and then what will happen is I'll die of a heart attack at the top of the mountain. Ok, Everybody else end and then they have to leave me up here, could can't take. It did with the US such a complex, you regard the abrupt on right back at you. They must coincide. Managers, it's got brought monarchies, a guy he's encourage now you go and how could it you're not gonna die if you're broke, you teach us against the grants. You don't like. Aren't you got it meanwhile, MAGIC Mount and ride these show has inspired you. I am happy person, because these two people I've been

Some right! I've been area Riley, who you I'm I'm I'm I'm still up nice to see you We only around drug mice, and this has been pray with sides and we'll catch you very very soon. On shore lockdown lay all job the organs which you could listen. The star talk, virtual free joint star talk on paper. For as little as five dollars per month and the ads will disappear. Learn more at patriarch dot com, slash star talk, radio