Today on something you should know the strange way automobile traffic works to cause more congestion and traffic jams. Then we live in an age of specialization, but the specializing the best way to get ahead. We all know the tiger woods story of early specialization it on tv golfing at two years old, whereas roger federer, who did a little bit of everything and delayed specialization and became the best tennis player in the world. We never hear that story, but that actually turns out to be the research backed approach, plus some advice for parents who still spank their children and the fascinating world of extreme creatures, the oldest the fastest, the smartest and the largest, the largest animal organism ever to live the blue whale. This is larger than any dinosaur. We know of exist right now in this point in time in our history, in which we are here to all this today on something you should know.

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Something you should know fascinating, intel, the world's top experts and practical advice you can use in your life today, something you should know MIKE carruthers. I don't know about you, but I love to dry. I've always loved to draw, and I've always been fascinated by traffic, how traffic seems to have a mind of its own. Our cars slow down. For no apparent reason and cause a traffic jam and just as quickly car speed up in the traffic jam is gone. It's as if traffic is its own. living organism and one of the most entered Examples of this is when traffic is insistently bad, what often happens is the powers that be say well let's add new lanes. If we add more lanes that will ease traffic congestion and it never works and it never works.

a fascinating reason which can be summed up. The phrase. If you build it, they will come in other words, when you add more lanes, more drivers show up to use it and one thing This example happened a few years ago and was called karma gettin in order to add more lanes, the four or five free way in LOS angeles, was closed for an entire weekend to tear down bridges and make way for new lanes and being one of the busiest freeways in the world. People feared the worst gridlock roadway, Who knows what else would happen even hospital staff up there- d ars fearing what might happen. And yet nothing happened. In fact, true forgive me area was better than usual, because people stayed away so the structuring continued the four or five freeway reopened with all these new lanes and guess what it now

takes longer to travel that stretch of highway. That was widened because my or cars have shown up to use it. the nature of traffic, and that something you should know. so I think it's the opinion of most people that we live in an age of specialization that six This comes as a result of being really good at something, rather than being pretty good at a lot of things, but that theory, may be flawed there. strong case to be made that specialization, especially early on in life, maybe reproductive journey David Epstein, has investigated this, and I think you will find what he found to be rich. interesting. David is author of the book range. Why generalists triumph, specialized world. I David, thank you for having me, so I would

think as most people, I think would think that being a specialist is a good thing as a specialist you're you're, an expert and as an ex or you can command more money in your looked upon with more pressing age, and so people are push towards or or gravitate towards, specialization and in fact, as people are being pushed a specialised warm in a knowledge economy. There are unique benefits to people who were who were born fraud and that those are accelerating not declining and people are being pushed to be more more specialised So why use that? What why do you think that perception is sewed differ then the reality. I think it's for two main reasons, one because, according to some of the research I cited range specialization did make more sense when our work worldwide How it is now where it, a lot of transfer of knowledge and the merging of of domain

interdisciplinary knowledge and so, for example, some of the patent research. If you look at technological logic prior to about ninety. Ninety the biggest contribution they made by specialists, people who were very deep in a particular area of technology and drill down in that area, but with the explosion of the knowledge economy, where specialised information became disseminated so thoroughly and quickly. It started shifting, and now it's very much in favour of technological inventors who spread their work across a large number of different technology. Glasses as as determined by the EU patent office and what they usually end up doing is creating something new not by binding. Now is new to the world, but by taking things from different domains and simply combining them in ways that the experts can see the one of a guy their profile, you did that

there's a guy named Gunter yo, coy who did not go well on electronics, exams and so had to settle for a low. Do your job as a machine maidens were there to playing card company in kyoto and realise that so much information with a view. He could combine technologies and awaited the specialist wasn't within their view, and in doing that he turned it that company nintendo into. point, game company and combined old technology, to create the game boy, the best selling videogame council twentyth century and that turned out to be idle for most of the innovative today, as as information more I'd be available. The opportunities accrue to people who combined knowledge, as opposed to this going down into an area. You know, I think our well meaning mindset is still stuck in a time That was the right thing to do, and I also think it has to do with the drama of some of the stories are really specialization. We all know the target story of early specialization need on tv, golfing, two years old, whereas your fetter, who did a little bit of everything and delay

specialization long after his peers and became the best tennis player in the world we're here that story, but that actually turns out to be the research backed approach, and so I think it is. It has to do with a sort of an old man that, and also with the drama of some of these stories of specialization. the guess, since you brought up the sports example, I there's a sense. A meme, Michael Jordan is great basketball player. He tried to play baseball sucked at it and that that he specialized in basketball. That was his thing to try broaden that out was stake

We would disagree with that. He hit two twenty in the minors and I think, if you pulled a random person off the street, they will hit zero in and so for someone who had not played baseball in like twenty years. I I and and jumped right into professional baseball. Actually he did quite well, but it's not about him, trying to play baseball in later life. It's about how he developed originally, which was as a multi sport athlete before focusing on basketball. So everyone specializes to one degree or another at some point or other, but it's really a question of how you get there. And if you have this this, the the pattern that science shows ubiquitously for athletes is they have a sampling period where they play a variety, sports, the gain a breadth of general skills that serve as the foundation for later more specific skills. They learn about their interests and abilities and systematically delays. Innovation until later than their peers who plateau at lower level, we do special eventually, but by the time they get there, they have this much broader range of skills and experience. So I think it's

it's not about trying to be a journalist it's about when you follow what we know about optimal development there, some seeking in zagging involved that gets you where you're going with a what broader range of skills and what is that zigzagging? Look like one of a research project If the profile is at harvard- and it was a study to figure out how people maximize what's called their match, quality, which is the term economists use for the degree of fit between individuals, interests in their abilities and the work that they do, and it turns out that the people in it turned out to be incredibly important for your motivation, your performance and your apparent work ethic. So when you get people in good match quality, it will seem all of a sudden, like they're a really hard worker, even if they didn't before

and the common trade of people who max their match. Quality is basically short term planning where they don't look around and say here someone younger than me who has more than me. They say here too. I am right now here my skilled in interest here, the opportunities right in front of me. I'm gonna, try this one I think it all change me in this way. Maybe here from now I'll change, they will learn something about myself or about the world and they do that sort of zigzagging and reflecting until they kind of triangulate a good match for themselves, and so this project, this research project became named the dark horse project, because all of these subjects would come in and say, don't tell people to do what I did like. I did the wrong thing. I didn't specialize I bounced around before I found my thing and that turns out to be the norm, not the exception, so it starts to make sense. When you see research like linkedin, which just released research and a half million members and found that the the best predictor of who would go on to become an executive with a number of different job functions, an individual had worked across it in an industry. That kind of goes against

the intuition to pick and stick, but it turns out to be the norm, not not the exception, and so it has even been incorporated into like the military where they now have a program. They call talent based branching because they were having trouble retaining their most highest potential officers. Where, instead of saying here's your career track go up or out they they pair these officers with a coach. They say: here's a whole bunch of career tracks dabbled in them. The coach will help you reflect on your own strengths and weaknesses, and he will delay picking because we it's more important to invest, time and experimentation to get the best match. So there are places that are that are systematizing what this research says we should do, but it's still not is still not intuitive, still not even intuitive. To me and I wrote the book Well, you know it's interesting, just using myself as an example I got interested in radio when was thirteen years old and I've never worked in anything else. It well podcast! different than radio but bids, basically the same kind.

The business and when, when people tell I tell people that I often hear oh you're so lucky cause I just bounced around and did things, but what you are saying is maybe they were lucky, and maybe I made a mistake if you found it mad for yourself early, didn't actually nothing wrong with that, but I would never tell someone for some to diversify any more than I would want to for someone to specialise, but typically, if someone is to maximize their match quality, they have to do some expense. Patient, you ve got an interest early like like tiger woods did in and that's great. I would also say that in some ways the but of what you do, whether its on radio or in some other medium is his europe curiosity I took you, may you may be focused in a medium and again, like I in writing. I was trying to be assigned to them my path, my past career, but I was still right. Just like I am now I'm guessing. Tell me if I'm wrong that that you're sort of wide ranging curiosity is probably what a appeal to a lot of people in and make you good at what you do

But perhaps because you know when I, when I went to college My parents used to give me a hard time, because I was always taking class it. You know chemistry for the non chemistry major, and you know all. of classes that were for much more general in nature. To see what it was all about, rather than just taking classes in what I was doing yeah and that's the one that interesting that you mentioned like chemistry for non chemistry. Majors has one of the traits that predicts people who have like the best judgment about the world. they should be the best at predicting political and economic trends, and things like that is his. What the cops call science, curiosity, not science, knowledge, science, curiosity and they studied, isn't really unique ways where will give apple. What look like consumer research surveys and will somehow smuggling from scientific information and and then they track how those people follow up on an information and even

it's it's information. They don't necessarily agree with the more science curious people will will keep delving into it and the less the less science curious people will actually forgo a chance to be paid just not to read it if it goes against what they already think and so My my guess is that you are, if you were doing, that of your own accord, like a lot of people, get the college and what I like about it is they never have to think about chemistry ever again and soda Could you weren't majoring in that and still put it? My guess is you would fit in with those people were highly science curious or you would not have done something. Journalists. David Epstein, is my guest. He's author of the book range. Why generalists triumph in a specialised world if you're a pair and I bet the subject of technology- has come up in conversation with your kids- U s. Cellular knows how important your kids relationship with technology is, and they ve made it their mission to them establish good digital habits early on. That's why

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that's z, o c d, o c dot com, slash s, why s k, Zack doc, dot com slash s why, as k so David, what the prescription. Here I mean so, is there a lot of people who are? I feel bad as they're going through college that they don't know what they want to be when they grow up, but, but maybe that's, okay, maybe you just haven't found it yet, but at some point you've got to you've, got to pull this You ve got to do something you can't keep looking and I think I no people who ve who have stayed in college a long time, apps longer than most, because I couldn't figure out what they wanted to do it you have to do. Eventually, obviously we all space like the one degree or another there. There is Certain range put into this zone, economist, with interested in specialization timing in higher education look dead across different countries had when students decide to spare live either late in high school or entirely college relating college, and his question was: who wins

off. The earlier relate specialised and the earliest lighters do in fact jump out to an income lead because they learn more specific skills for whatever domain they're going into, and so they they start earning more money upon graduation, but by six years out, the later specializes, who have into the a little know a little bit more about the options in their skills and have identified better matches catch up with them and pass them Meanwhile, the early specialised start quitting those careers in much higher numbers. They were whether maiden, whose earlier work for some of them, but many more of them end up making a wrong fit, and so the trade off is more more often one by the later specializes when it comes to that the timing of specialization higher education, if you a generalist and you are an you're, not really sure which direction you wanna go or which direction to take next maim and wiper option is little especially younger people. It's not

you're trying lots of interesting things there interesting and bar tending in and things that are just kind of paying the bills, but it's they're all let let's go try specialization they're just doing jobs until something comes along yeah I mean I think you have to proactively set up experimentation. So are many ybarra who I talk about some of her research. She studies how people change careers and find careers that that are better match quality for them. else. She doesn't say like just leap out of your career and or anything like that when she, when she studied these people with usually do is they had their doing something, and they start very pro actively, not accidentally setting up kind of experiments about things. They might be interested in whether that is joining a club starting a hobby talking to people on the fringes of their network, about some opportunity that they may not have known about

and they'll start dipping a toe in something and say, and then dip a toe in a little bit more and a little bit more, and until they might decide that something. You know they should actually go into something usually the friendster thing, not just keep it as a hobby. You know you want stick with your stable job, but they make these traditions very slow. usually while they have won stable thing going and they they start building up this interest in this sort of new identity, one step at a time to leave little personal experiments, and so I think we should be oriented towards doing those personal experiments. Matters waiting for something to come along because things don't just come along. I think, unless you're really lucky you have to be, you have to be looking at exposing yourself to things in a proactive way even with all this research and everything is in a lot of what people end up doing just luck, serendipity I mean again. Might I became listed in radio, because I walked into a radio station when I was thirteen and was mesmerized by it. But if I hadn't prob-

We be doing something else, and so it just seems like, that there's a lot of china. Meetings in and situations that push people in a particular way, totally at doesn't mean it the best way to do it. I didn't doing something so again when, when students specialised earlier, there are many times more likely go into work feel that they were exposed to when they were very young, but they don't really know what else about their there inside is concerned. Leaned by their their roster of previous experiences and so weak? We only serendipity for whatever were whatever were doing right, like Charles darwin, dad was a doctor, and so Charles It's was going to be forced to be a doctor, but he hated it and his father hated it, and fortunately he convinced his father take a gap year and go live on a boat and that turned into about the most impactful post college gap year in the history of the world, but he was going to do what his father did

No, they both hated it and that's is not a good reason to do it. But serendipity is involved in in everything, but I think there are habits of mind and approaches. We can take that make us more likely to get lucky like I say it takes luck to hit a home run except hank. Aaron would get lucky forty times a year for twenty straight years, because he had a certain approach, and so I think, if we adopt a certain approach and certain habits of mind We make it more likely that they will get lucky and good ways. I remember hearing somebody's careers advice and I remembered cause it it sort of. Lied to me, as I alluded to before that, if, if your older and you you really can't figure out what to do. Look back to when you were about thirteen and what interested you. But then I heard someone else say: am that's probably not really a very good way of doing it. What what's your sense? That would not be my first instinct because one of the psychology defining guy

oh file range. It's called the end of history illusion, and this is finding that we all ready as we have changed a lot in the past when we look backward, but then when we're asked how much we think we're going to change in the future, we always underestimated at every single time point in life. We underestimate how much will change in the future, even though we acknowledge we change a lot in the past and the this. The most rapid time of personality changes between about the ages of eighteen, and The eight and the the correlation between your personality traits from your teen years to about middle age is, is low to low moderate. Basically, there are traces of yoda teenage you in the middle age, you that are recognizable, but you are a very different person, and so I think it's more fruitful to pay attention to yourself as your developing and be running those experiments in taking time to reflect and try new things. Then, to think back that far too, when you were effectively a different

and by any psychological measure and and certainly living in a different world. There alone Things though you can't try mean you can't try to be a lawyer. You have to be a lawyer and then find out. You hate it and then give it up. So it was kind of an advantage yeah, I mean you were right, I mean so there you can't be a try to be a doctor. You have to be a doctor and then decide whether you like it or not. Okay. So my favorite author, for example, is a woman named Susan Cain, who wrote a book called quiet and she was a lawyer. And that wasn't a basket versus she started working on a book about the special contributions of introvert in in a world where we mostly prize extroverts, then she started doing that on her side time, and that became like one of the biggest blockbuster nonfiction books of this generation, and so she was a lawyer and she did have to try it out. But that didn't mean you couldn't get off that path. nothing wrong with setting a goal to be an inherent actually, basically quoting one of the dark horse. Researchers there's nothing wrong

with setting a goal to be a doctor or lawyer, but if you do that before a period of discovery, then it's a dangerous goal, because then you're hoping for luck that you're actually going to like their career. So when the dust all settles, what do we know? How do people who follow your advice of sting general before they specialise. At the end of the day. How did they compared to the people who specialised early? we are specialized, have much higher growth rates, so they get out again to get up behind in income. That part is true, but then their growth rates are so much faster because they have picked a better fit that they fly past their their earlier specializing peers, and then they are much more likely to stay in related fields. Then the peers are specialized earlier, who are much more likely to quit, probably because they they picked a goal or two early and then in in other fields, and the biggest contributions are made by people who merge desperate

so in science, which we consider a highly specialised field. The most impact for worked comes from people who make what people who stated call novel combinations of now it where they they put together now judge from domains that never usually talk to each other to technological innovation. Again, workpeople spread their work across a large number of patent classes. Two comic book creation, where the best creators are not those who have done the most number I have the most years, but have spread their work across the largest number of genres. Us too geopolitical in an economic forecasting where people members of the general public,

have a wide variety of interest in her had a very diverse background. Experiences out predict our? U s. Intelligence analysed to have classified, who have access to classified data simply because those people in such a narrow view and and people who had more diverse back on experiences, have more diverse interests again Better grip on the world may well that the prescriptions pretty clear. Ms, if you don't know what you want to do- that- that that's ok and just hearing It is kind of, and it takes the press roth that it's ok not to know and to go experiment and figure it out, rather than wait for divine intervention. That says you must be a doctor. You be a lawyer. It exactly that again, her many barra who does this groundbreaking study of people find their best It says we learn who we are in practice. Nine theory, meaning were not that good at introspective what we're gonna,

like an what we're gonna be good at without actually trying some things and when you get where you're going you'll arrive there many cases with a broader ray of skills that I think the work world is increasingly starting to reward, which is why you see a thing like that. Lincoln serves to show the people with the largest number of job functions are most likely to be the the and ceos but it, but it takes some time to get there well, when you hear you tell it, it makes a lot of sense, but I do think that most people think specialization is the way to go and clearly There is another side to the story David Epstein has been my guest. The book is called range. Why generalists trial, in a specialised world, and there is a link to book in the show notes, thanks David, my pleasure, thanks for talking hey if you want to have some fun it's football season after all, and it is a great time to play some daily fantasy sports and one. Maybe you haven't played before is prize picks. I play it. What's cool about price pixies you

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and pr, wherever you get your podcast You may not have thought about this before, but this is really interesting. in our world. There are what you would call by alive google extremes: these are creature of living things that are the biggest the smallest, the fastest, the smartest the deadliest, the oldest when you look at these extreme creatures. You discover some very fascinating things like how they got to be that way why they to be, that way there are a lot of other things. We can learn from these extremes matthew le plan, is an associate professor of journalism. Add Utah state university. And he is research, this phenomenon and put it in a book called superlative the biology of extremes. I matthew paid thank them, I appreciate the imitation

Why is it important to look at this and talk about this? What why are we discussing these extremes of nature? So I a couple of reason that the first is just that primitive organisms, things that are the biggest or the fastest, the strongest her whatever their in. Lee relate above their instantly. Interesting people love these things. This is why the guinness book of world records cells, position copies every year and continues to do so. So the first thing is these things just me great ambassadors for science, because people are already and directed at them now, two these organisms for a really long time, because they are by definition, outliers have been. Lee ignored by scientists. We tend to steady things in the middle of whatever I worry we're looking at and so as scientists have had

in recent years to really focus on these things, we're learning so much about how they have managed to survive and the evolutionary tricks that they used to do so at them, learning a lot about how we can apply that to our lives and our own technology and our own biomedical technologies. So, let's start to talk about some of these things and we might as well start with the biggest what's the biggest, and why is it so fascinating? maybe a really great place to start is the african bush elephant, the bull african bush elephant the largest animal, to live on the door on the surface of our planet since the dinosaurs went extinct, to defy million years ago now water for the elegant tools. Balls to be this big, because of the way we grow because of the way all life forms grove. Through cellular division is at risk at great risk of developing cancer, because

cancer materialise is in large part because a divide and sell divide and felt every time a cell divides. There is potential for a mutation, so really talking to these cancer researchers, ethical from our perplexed by the very nature of the air. it because it doesn't make a wild sent it shouldn, he allowed by the rules of cellular division, cancer and everything else, as we know them to get that big, but it has and so researchers him have been diving into answering the question of how it has been able to do this and wonder ways it does. This is apparently through the use of a gene, of which have many copies. We only have a few copies as many copies Jeanne, the Jews cop Fifty three, the known cancer suppressor humans, but an elephant. It fights cancer in a different way it Induces cells that have me

stated in bad ways to kill themselves. and so researchers now just actually up the street from my home at you dot the university, utah or figuring out ways to insert the synthetic jean into human cancer cells and causes, to kill themselves the elder me pointing us in the direction of how to stop not just one form of cancer, but all forms of cancer, and this elephant that is so big and it is the largest, as you say, the largest thing walking the earth. What, was it always this bank or the has it gotten bigger no the evolutionary history. The elephant is fascinating. It started looking like an elephant like the element that we think of millions of years ago, but it it got bigger and bigger and bigger there isn't, and if there is not an elephant in the

evolutionary history, the modern elephant that was bigger than the elephant, that we happen to share the planet with right now, interestingly, the largest organism, the largest animal organism ever to live planet the blue whale. This is larger than any dinosaur. We know of exist right now in this point in time is really small. Little microscopic point, at the time in our history, in which we're here too so we're actually really fortunate. I think, to be around at this time to come along at this time, at the same time as the blue whale, and the reason for that is one of the many reasons for that is. This principle called copes rule which I suggest that over time, animals will bigger and smaller, a bigger and smaller in a single lineage, but the curve tends to be up over time, so things get bigger overtime and make the argument in the book that its just size

It follows coax rule it also speed. It also intelligence, it also strength overtime Animals evolved to fit ds, niches and calm, the most extreme thing ever and those in those niches, the case of a blue whale is the largest living creature. well with a brain kind of thing, but it is not the the largest living thing. the biggest life form? We know that if we include plants as well is an interconnected forest ass, been trees. Are these are interconnected at the roots and at what singular organism It is here also in central. You talk and is a hundred acres big. These small list living life forms that we know of little micro organisms. Single self micro organisms are so small that they are

optionally hard to photograph, even with the really souped up electron microscope than we have at our disposal today. What we're learning for them, because they only use a very small number of genes to exist and they have very short genomes- is starting to use these very small organisms to us, the end. What genes are actually absent. the necessary for a life of any form to exist, we could talk about fast, is the best This animal that we know of is the pair in falcon it dives so fast that it is falling at a rate of about a soccer field every second, at its fastest speed. over two hundred miles an hour. Aeronautical engineers are taking a second look at falcon feathers, and the way that they are arranged. Those feathers over their back to interrupt airflow try to solve the problem of stall, which is

century old problem of aviation engineering that still, unfortunately, causes airplanes too to fall into crashing, to kill people so wait. You said a falcon can accelerate towards the earth at hundred miles an hour had had greater than two hundred miles an hour in the way that we learned. This is fascinating because there was The people had this theory. That falcons were really fast, but we couldn't prove it because, by the time, their close enough to get like a radar fix on them, they're already slowing down in all slim into the earth. So there is this amateur scientist in amateur sky, diver, an amateur falconer, all one person in the state of washington who decided that he was going to teach his pet falcon do skydive with him, and A little a little altimeter on the falcons tale

There is an entire the falcon, the chieftain allure after he jumps out of a plane with them, and this is how we got a measurement of the fast is capable speed the paragon falcon. Let's talk about the old what what is the oldest thing oldest living creature on the planet? There is no consensus on what the oldest organism is in the world. One of the theories is that it is this interconnected, aspen clown that I mentioned earlier, which is nicknamed pandemic, as some people believe it may be tens of thousands of years old popular guess is eighty thousand years old, but because If the trees aren't the they grow individually, that the stems grow individually only for about one hundred to one hundred and twenty years, and then they die, but the root systems days it it continues to perpetuate. So we can't just

these trees, like we would any other tree like a critical time present or if you just cut down the tree, you can count the rings, So the estimate very bad, but it may be eighty thousand years old, or maybe even older than that cop? That's the oldest point. And potentially that we know of all this animal that we know of is a cease fire. to that de dredged up from bottom of the sea of japan, its roughly ten thousand years old, and do really great thing about having access to organisms that are that old is they aren't just organisms. There also measuring sticks. This theme sponge because it grows on this silicon speculated like a sponge like that, on top of almost what looks like a glass throwing spear that thrown spear adds a ring to it so

every year and collects molecules from the bottom of the ocean that scientists have been able to use to measure, see temperatures going back for thousands of years. We collect another. These were can learn from them. Is how see temperature to fluctuated over these two thousand? five years, and also that allows us to understand better, how see temperatures and Erika The chairs on the trustful world him into the rest of our atmosphere, correlate overtime and that helps us understand climate change better. So what was what was the most of all of the things if we haven't talked about it already, the most fascinating to you, when you did this research gotta say: I'm still. I still remain enamoured with the cheetah, which I d give you ass. Most people don't like what is the fast as the animal in the world. Instantly tell you the cheetah now fast is a funny thing

right because we can measure speed in very different ways. The cheetah doesn't fly, obviously, so it's not as fast as a peregrine falcon, but that's a little unfair comparison. But if you put a cheetah in a one hundred meter foot race with any other terrestrial terrestrial animal, the cheat is going to win. So we call we call it the fastest animal in the world and what fast, It's me about this organism is that it really also much like the elegant. It shouldn't really exist back about ten thousand years ago, there is a population bottleneck, a lot of animals a lot a large animals all across the world began to die out. The cheetah was really on the ropes and came down just to a few members of species enough. When you only have a few, individual members of the species yeah laughed.

what is up happening is that your genetic ear gene pool get really shallow mutation start taking over and and the things get wiped out. This is why we don't have woolly mammoths on our planet anymore. They existed on this little island called rangel island in canada until about three thousand years ago, but there just weren't enough of them to develop a deep enough gene pool to survive and they ended up repopulating themselves out of the existence that should have happen the cheetahs to, but it didn't and as a result, even ten thousand years later, cheetahs rebounded during that time now they're on the brink. Now, because, because of us quite frankly, as a result of the fact that they had this real extreme population bottleneck cheaters one. Here too, the next hour, so genetically similar that they actually look like siblings, norman How far spaced out no matter where you collected them in africa or asia, but

one of the things that that bottleneck, locked in was the cheetah speed, it's so much faster than anything that it chases that it doesn't have to work very hard. It doesn't have to expend a lot of energy to catch prey, so it had this uber advantage. So the thing that maybe I've killed. It also saved it as well, It's really amazing! When you think about that. That's really interesting, so you say or we're not the smartest, but I think that's a surprise to people because we're at the top of the food chain. We think we're pretty smart but who's smarter than us. Oh will again. This depends on how you measure intelligence. But let's talk about with talk about ants Let's see that I took you to a city park and I said here's what I want you to do. I want you to walk across this park, its rules ray city blocks law. I want you to walk across his part as you do, I want you to count your steps? I want you to know how many steps you took with your left foot. I want you to know how many steps he took with your right foot,

I also want you to remember every turn you took. I want you to remember every smell you smell. I want you to be able to remember every sound you heard. I want you to be able to tell me every time you took a step over something or around something, and I want you to be able to retrace your steps, and I want you to be able to do that. With your eyes closed humans can't do that there's no way we couldn't do that with a lot from one airport to another, an ant. I do all of that, because they have individual centers of their brains that are devoted to doing things like counting their steps so that they know how many steps that they need to take to get back to where they came from to remembering where the light shifted to remembering, where smells changed and depending on how you think about it, tell us now what I think about something like that: like tat, brilliant bedroom. That demonstrates in reasonable intelligent, but we don't have to think of the tellers

like tat, because I am stone, build computers and they don't read reeboks right. it depends on how you think about intelligent dolphins can do things with their brains. That aren't you we'll just knock you after cheer ate their emotional, intelligent appeal. to be so much more refined than ours. As a mere coming to learn of the importance of emotional and intelligent. We probably don't hold a candle. dump into limerick system spreads out if their entire brain as it is, graded in all other thought process these and They make emotional decisions as much as they make rational decisions. Talk about this. August on these spying. Of the book superlative. There's a rhinoceros beetle pull up a load greater than a hundred times its body weight. So one way to measure strength is just like how much weight can something carry

another way to measure strength, is how tat does something right? How able is it to survive against really dream conditions for my money again, this is a but for my money, that's gotta, be the targeted way is a microscopic organism also known as of water bear. I think it looks like I saw a whack from return of the jedi and, except for it's also like really strangely also cute, but also ugly. It's like well the space between cute and ugly, but these things you can blast them, are the radiation you can send them into outer space you can freeze them. You can boil them, you can step on them. You could try to crush them and They do, in times of stress, is They reduce themselves into this little formed its about three sent of their total water? Wait I just

I themselves basically, and they wait out a better day and they can do this for decades, so they can sustain at all. trials and tribulations of the world and are so good at this that sometimes it is has estimated that, even if all other life on earth was wiped out these things would survive, until the point that our sun supernova and takes up the planet as pretty impressive It really impressive one more one more. Let's talk about the deadliest deadliest yeah, so you know like humans, make a pretty good claim for the title of deadly, certainly deadliest. Today, the green, it's the number of species. We can put that trophy on our mantle. You know, but again we think of the deadliest in different ways. Most people, if you ask about deadliest, might think about

a lion right, and you know what I want. I wouldn't want to find myself in a cage with a lion, but I've done a few expeditions. Research, expedition journalism, expeditions in africa and I'll tell you I'm far far more afraid, with a nother animal another large animal in africa, the hippo, which is actually the deadliest large animal in africa to humans and you think, are the incredibly bigger, incredibly powerful they're all faster than than they look and that they will break your back with a single bite. They are not even lower than either these organisms and even close to the devil Is the animal in africa which is mosquito because it spreads malaria, malaria of human lives, spreads. Malaria. Malaria claimed hundreds of thousands of years lives every year. Even today, which

which really should make it a public health priority for for all of us, Well, it's not only interesting, but clearly there are lessons to be learned from all of these extreme biological creatures, and I appreciate you explaining all of this matthew le pen It has been my guest. He is an associate professor of journalism at utah state university and the name of his book is superlative. The biology of extremes- and there is a link to that book in the show- notes you for being here matthew. I thank you for having me appreciate it. I met you, care good luck with a book, I think now by light although I'm sure it's a lot less common than it used to be a lot of parents around the world, still spank their kids, and if you do, here's a really good reason to stop a survey of twelve hundred people over the age of sixty five asked them to look back at their life and unify their biggest regrets

the big one was that they spend too much time worrying, but right they are near. The top of the list was hitting their kids and many of these adults are from the spare, the rod spoil the child era of child rearing, while people can still debate the good versus harm of spanking children. One thing seems likely it will make you feel Terrible for doing it, and that something you should, though, subscribe to this, podcast is always free and it is the best way to make sure you never miss an episode you can scribe. Wherever you listened to pod, there's always a subscription button. I microbes there's thanks for listening today to something you should know.

Stacking benjamin's with Joe and his good friend oji. Not only has great financial insight, its lay back with humour to the lehne, pens, oh say much survey I wanted to know: was it really cheaper to around bag it every day or was it cheaper to go through these school lunch? The most expensive sandwich of all forty six percent increase is the first time a sandwich has ever touched five bucks before anybody gags on at them. It's a great sandwich find out more by searching the stacking benjamin's pie cast wherever you listen