The present exporter of pod save America. The preferred her Is it recruiters marketplace data there are all these businesses hiring even during times like this, and sometimes because of times like this. These are some of the occupations with the fastest increase in job postings over the past weeks. Aren't you guys ready postal carrier cool, registered nurse telemedicine makes sense. Grocery shopper also makes sense, and warehouse handler Maybe because it can be done to a safe social distance? Golf coach so because, once of golf lessons it's a trap. He teach you up for that one day, now, just puts it around the house here While these are just a few, the open roles you'll find on Ziprecruiter. There are many more in a variety of fields, zipper is dedicated to helping people find jobs faster and helping companies higher the right people right away. So

We are currently job hunting are currently hiring zip. Recruiter is continuously working to help. All of us keep going. Let's work together. Zipper dot com slash work together I welcome the pod, save America, I'm John Fabric, I'm dyin Pfeiffer, on his party and talks to the Washington Post Dave Waigel about the did? strategy shaping the Biden and Trump campaigns

before that will talk about the results of a brand new Michigan Pole, we conducted with change. Research is part of our political coaster, and But the pole means for the decision by Trump and the Republicans in Congress to put a hold on any additional economic relief. They talk about the President's favorite new drug and my TED this is an asshole, but first this week's pod save the world where Tommy and Ben talk about why the media is barely covering the news that Al Qaeda pulled off its first successful terrorist attack in the? U S since nine eleven in many ways that might pontio is corrupting the state Department also, ANA Maria Cox is back with a very cool new season of with friends like these, this season is focused exclusively on converts people who have to changed their minds and views and beliefs in very big ways and she's going. Splore, why that happens by talking to some converts themselves. It's great.

Go. Listen subscribe with friends like these, wherever you get your podcast in one quick note from us, because a memorial day we will be releasing be next episode of pod. Save America first thing on Tuesday morning. Big memorial, they weakened in our plans right yeah, We have a big barbecue with the three of us It is, it is, I will say, Kyle's birthday on which you will be too and if you thought trying to convince the american people that spending a bunch of money on healthcare, actual reduce the deficit, try tracking try convincing a two year old that it is more fun to have your birthday on a computer there with your friends at your house, oh, no, every every bit of communication, skill and trick. I have it like message: repetition, Spin everything someday shall be able to laugh at will happen on her Yes, that's what we all someday

Let's get the news, so We have a lot of important to to talk about, but I do think is worth mentioning that, right after we finish Monday's recording are favorite salesmen announced that he's been using his own snake oil. In the present United States tells us that, in order to prevent covered, nineteen he's been hitting the Hydroxyl clerk when pretty hard a drug that the medical establishment says is ineffective at best and deadly at worst. So I guess my. Question to you is: why is the Trump campaign trying to make this election about which candidate is mentally fit for the presidency, I have to say: I'm quite impress: did you write all of those jokes yourself? That's good

because I wrote you send around on a Wednesday night trying to prepare for the pod. There's not much remained out. That was great, and if I was a trap, if I was Travis, I'd be quite nervous by Travis doesn't right mind the other jobs generated gaily outline, make you About Trump drinking is obliged I never got far enough to make a jokes. I appreciate you doing all of us green ahead of it It actually like we're joking about it and relaxing, because that's better than crying but Is it really that funny. The nice summit happened on Monday right as we write, is of course right after the popular now, unlike I was reading it on Twitter in the office. I hear Emily like scream about it, because she was watching tv pictures both sitting there. Is this serious right now like what I mean it it is taking a drug against the recommendations of his own government to own the lips.

That's right. You say it's just that I was I almost robot, actually that he was. He was taken the drugs on the aim of the thing is we don't know if he's taking it, because we don't believe him and we know even believe his doctor, who sent a very vaguely worded out, and so it's like kind of everything. It is a fair explanation of why were in a giant Massa mental this pandemic. That the presents a wire, he thinks a sea. Best thing to do the thing in its interests. The thank you decide to do at the moment is to tell people that he's taken and unproven drug for it. Is he doesn't hear me the reason it is not entirely funny at all is like I don't give. A shit trump contain everyone's aren't. There happens to him, but you know while the first time you brought up Hydroxyl clerk when a bunch of people did.

I take it on their own? They asked their doctors for it that dangerous to the people who could possibly be taking it. It's also there's a lot of people with conditions who actually need Hydroxyl clerk when and there is a shortage of it, because a Donald Trump, and it also just fits like you said, with his general demeanor for others, entire crisis, that there is some magical elixir some easy solution to get out of all this like he cannot comprehend that we might be going through. Something that requires share national sacrifice that might take a long time there we're gonna have to get through together, just searching every single day for the the magic potion That's gonna end this right away, in doing that. He does speak to a desire and all of us to like get the fuck out.

Our homes and like return to normal life right. So that's why it still dangerous, because if a lot of people who are like get, I do want this magic drought. I do want this to be over but the danger is by constantly, and he said here I wasn't am I got on this like I've been receiving some very good news about this right, like throughout the course of this pandemic. He has listened to Fox news hosts and his own fucking guy, over public health officials and experts and that's why and there is a report in the New York Times last night. Thirty's thousand lives could have been saved at the federal government, acted just one week earlier to impose social, distancing measures. Thirty six thousand lives, and we didn't because, thought it was all going to go away and he was worried about upsetting the stock market, Let me don't: we have warehouses full of Hydroxyl clerk when, in this country we spend a ton of effort trying to acquire. All the worldwide doses of it, just in case it turned out to be right. You another offer trump. I guess

having greater from estimate like Scrooge me doc. You just gonna go diving into the vault of highly toxic clerk. While these Jesse now has its guidance for what the graphic for the project like all. I can tell you so far as they seem to be. Ok. Beverages quote about it. Well, they ve taken me not believing in science thing really one step too far,. Yeah, it's incredibly dangerous and it's in the end. It's it's even more so because we are not out of it like we're, going to be doing this for a very long time and you shudder to think how he's going to treat this crisis, particularly if there's a second wave in the fall and we're even deeper into the election. What the things that he's going to say it's, it's very scary one more quickly to closed before we move on to the railways, and it is of course related to the greatest crime in history of crimes. This week

the twitter trawl, who trump install to run our intelligence agencies, declassified and email where form a national security adviser. Susan rice summarised an over. Office meeting in January of twenty seventeen between herself Obama, Joe Biden, Jim Commie and Sally Yates, where the former president heard about Michael Flint Secret conversations with the russian ambassador to the Eu S Trump pundit. Have long believed that raises email would prove Obama to be the criminal mastermind behind a coup attempt, get us against Donald Trump. And sure enough Dan Rice was caught. Writing that Obama wanted to be sure that quote every ass back to this issue, is handled by the intelligence and law enforcement communities by a book They got a ban. Is exactly right, if you're committing a crime that I mean, people, might hear you say that laugh, but that is now the explanation by all of the Trump pundits that of

course, Susan Rice would write an email saying that Obama said to do it by the book, because Susan new that year, from now Rick Grenelle, would declassify the email and she wanted to keep the keep their the conspiracy going by letting everyone know that back and twenty seventeen, she wanted to make everyone believe that brought about we're doing things by the book. And it's only accepts its also just worth noting that Barack Obama warned done. Tromp to not higher microphone, which would have been a really dumb idea if your plan was to entrap Donald Trump by Taking him with a compromise and investigated demonstrated by a year No one read Obama into Obama game: that is the problem area, one forgets because you know trumpets likes screaming about again. Another bullshit

two of the mat right after the election like it was a. Fairly cordial meeting when Bravo I was trying to be as helpful as possible and said by the way you ve got this guy MIKE Flynn. I had fired him, he's bad news. Get yourself a better national security advisor. Why would he say that, Why would he say that if you wanted to screw trump over, I don't fucking understand, and everyone agrees with the account of that meeting. This is the problem with this. Is you fucking, go down a rabbit, how it makes you go down a rabbit hall. There and then you end up sounding crazy because you're talking about all these details of all these meetings, that most people in the country probably dont, know about and don't give a shit about. This is the problem. Is sway in it like this a larger conversation about. The incentive structure with an republican power,

fixing the trump error, they would lead them down a path of focusing an enormous amount of energy on a fake crime which solves a political problem. They dont have base excitement. And creates one they dont need, which he is in seeing the much more popular president into election when that present is much more progress with the very voters. Atrocities persuade in order to win the how you get into that position. Says so much about how Conservatism is no longer sums. Of political philosophy or political movement it other than before. Of racism and general corporate greed? essentially inattention economy right. Were you where the more shameless you are the more willing you are to say that the, ass, his blue in the sky is green. There is seen as a your commitment to the cause right and They took a PETE like they did their so dumb They decided that they were

two titillate people with this Susan Rice, email that if only we could get a declassified, that would spark that would went up the doors to Obama. Gate So Susan Rice was, I call declassify my email. Do it do it right now there are leg. We got her You must be both exorbitant, do it and they do it in it. Says the exact opposite of what they think: so one under a normal rational were people will look at it and say well maybe we'll move on to another fight crime. But instead they take a piece of clearly exculpatory evidence and as evidence of the crime that didn't happen and like they constantly get hoisted on their own petard, but they don't care because they have no shame. That's that exactly right in it and again it's not just trump. It's not like the craziest trump pundits, it's like the broader, lookin Party, multiple senators or jumping on

Republican Centre saying oh, this proves somehow because about wanting to do it by the book he's really a criminal. Here's! What TED crews tweeted quote? Why Ongoing spying from an outgoing protests on the incoming protests, directed by Obama himself is unprecedented in the two hundred and forty four years of our nations history. Sudan. I will admit that in a moment of weakness, I replied to that tweet and I call TAT crusade, fucking fraud, Tommy also replied calling him a pathetic liar and then TED crews. It respond with quote Obama, browser all simultaneously attacking this tree using near identical language. The Tor manages to avoid expletive, which is really the this time. Someone is ever said that about Tommy its curious running screaming away from the crime scene, doesn't typically convey com or innocence, and that is reading. This is three about us. I was like this is: why it's not worth it

This is why it is just not worth engaging with these people ever be. Because it's not on the level there's, no kind of exculpatory evidence or fax or anything to choose their minds there. Never going back down there never going to be caught in a lie so like there's no point Otherwise, there is now a hot moment you can't like is that they cannot be shamed and they actually are quite good. Weapon icing, our outrage to four there. There goes right leg. Take crews sent is absurd. Tweet. He knew it was absurd, he's not Stu bad was a thing no that well, I always wonder like do these p, I believe the bullshit that their spewing, because, They are so trapped in their information bubble and they just they really do believe it and crews is smarter than that, and so his tweets were proved to me.

Guy knows he's fucking line, he knows it and is doing it anyway. He just doesn't care yeah, I think that's right about TED crews, just because he believes enough right would ever on tat. Would whatever the best thing for takers, and that moment is what he will do and his entire career has been that from going from, George Bush's campaign attorney to a tea party for a tea party, populist from Harvard LAW with a wife who worked Goldman Sachs to give it a speech about voting your conscience at the convention too, slovenly endorsing tromp like at any moment like you just go, he does goes right. For where, whatever is better protection for take crews by. I think, that your information pubble exactly right for the over what may majority, not republican voters but republican leaders from Trump on down, and we often think about the about fox,

or of their affiliate facts juniors, as this one way propaganda machine right where it's like and I think that's our Roger Elles, thought of it, which is, I know, what's true in. What's not, and I am going to use this to weapon eyes, the anger of republican voters, I'm gonna give them a steady diet of things. It's all part of my political strategy, but at some point, the republican propaganda machine became self aware and now they all live inside the matrix. That is where they get all the information. They believe these things and they govern, but you don't really know where the propaganda ends in the palace. Begins anymore or like be the Oh conversation, we can have later on about Republicans deciding not to do a bunch of things to the economy that help them get. Reelected is base entirely on the fact that they are listening to a bunch of fake economists on Fox say it's going to be a vitiate recovery, because saying it's a vitiate recovery makes Donald Trump happy, which gives them more ratings If you say the things our trump makes out from here

baby you're, going to curry favour with his base in Europe. Just this move on and on and on again, and they knew they look like the rolling already lost track with reality a long time ago. I think our takers it attorney. He knows that he male means But he also knows that if it for he does the year must wait? Then he guess it out breach weight, and then you can find a liberal blue check mark in this. Casey when Tommy and claim victimization ends and be able and then a bunch of people say dictate whose own the Obama rose, retweet, Hashtag, Maggie Hashtag no mask, but also how sad is that a? U S senator who ran The president is expending his time. He shouldn't even know who mean Tommy are what is he doing we're in the middle of fucking pandemic? Like you know, ninety plus thousand Americans have died, we ve got more But almost forty million people unemployed and tankers sittin there, like Vittoria,

avoided expletive, like what are you fucking doing help the people of Texas do something man, you're fuckin, senator I mean that that's how they see their job now! It's also. You can tell the degrees was smart enough to know how crazy is first, we was. There is a follow up statement where that either street was Obama directed spying on the incoming protests. Then Follow up statement was well there. Scandal is that Obama, Wade not telling the new administration. Certain counter intelligence info about flan, because they didn't trust that Flynn wasn't. You know haven't some kind of connections with government that just sabotaged our election, which is completely under and about and was borne out to be a correct judgment, how they got on their path because, like three weeks later, Trump invited that same russian ambassador into the oval office and divulged a classified operation with the Israelis

up. Yeah. We feel that this is the problem with and in a road said this their day. Berets like this is the other problem, with its mowers fault too. In a way like Mahler deciding not to reach a conclusion, and yet still like Mahler lays out all these contacts between the Trump campaign and the Russians and basic reasons improve a conspiracy legally, but of course there. All this collision and because the bill BAR and Erin Donald Trump, anyone else Republican said no collusion. The whole thing Mahler thing was fake and therefore, if the whole mother thing is fake than any that came out of it was also fake, and therefore It was a hope it was a you know: it's a coup against Donald Trump, and it was a phoney investigation in the first place ran like each can spare. He builds on the last and so in their minds. It makes sense to say what this was: all the Obama campaign setting them up anyway, even though the investigation was more than well deserved and bore a lot of fruit, and here we are,

so just have to say again that the higher idea. Democrats trying to steal the election was a situation in which they got. FBI to investigate both Hillary Clinton, an tromp in full The public before the election about the investigation, Hillary Clinton not tell them about, which was a very poorly executed plan to steal an election. And then again and then and then once they can still the election tried to stage the coup by the FAO, we're president warning the new president, that is, national security adviser, could have russian ties and their very mad at Andrew, Mikhail, the F B, I Fischer who worked on this because he leads, but we now know that the leaky did was harmful to kill reclaimed. Anyway, it's a fucking stupid. I can't wait to spend time on this, but These are talking points for those of you who have to do zoom. Family reunions with you're nag, uncles right out One of the people he was why and he's probably I wanna do it fucking Joe Rogan, on his pocket.

Which gets millions and millions of people to listen was out there. The other day telling people Obama definitely spied on. Trumpet was a crime, blah blah blah blah blah and there's a lot of fun. People who listen to that. We just are not gonna, know any better and now he's like off after Fuckin Spotify, so like these things, get filtered through very large channels and amplify and we can laugh at all we want. But you know when I sat there focus groups and Why didn't you vote for Hillary Clinton and twenty sixteen and a bunch of people, didn't say like it was her emails or it was. The answer was that, but they said oh, why I heard she had a kill list of people. Aren't you kill people? oh. I wonder where that get spread. I wonder where they get started. While this is how I get started, pods America is broadly by square space. You square space, create a beautiful website to showcase your work, sell products and services promote your visit or online business and more who's gonna.

Good idea for a website about get me my fucking Housetop House. I pay just Hydroxyl Chloric when clearing house dot net. I'm just sort of waiting for it to take off. I think I've been there. I think you can have one consumer of that product. You know who has a lot of who has long voting a t, shirt website and we only sell won t shirt, which has don't talk to me before I had my hydroxide workmen, first idea. That's a winner like you should actually riding around. You know that the reason I'm saying here is that I pitched in emerging meeting really I'm in in any way back to the sponsor Chica. Square space dotcom slash crooked. For trial and when you're ready to launch use the Africa crooked to save ten percent of your first purchase of website or domain. We loves space

easy to use. You dont have to know anything about technology. You just oxy through starting a website. It's amazing. If you're gonna start a website use square space, it's easy! It simple. Go for it, get our goal of Michigan that we conducted with change. Research between May eleventh and seventeenth, they surveyed three thousand. Seventy likely voters big set leading a particularly large number of persuadable swing, voters and found after Donald Trump defeated Hillary Clinton Michigan by forty seven point: five percent to forty seven point: three percent and twenty sixteen Joe Biden now holds a forty nine to forty six percent lead over Trump with five percent undecided on the plus side half of buttons led comes from people who voted third party or not at all in twenty. Sixteen he's got this order of eighty seven percent of Bernie Sanders voters which is higher than Hilary had and white women without a college degree move

more towards bind than any other demographic group, that's on the plus side, but It is also only getting thirty percent of people who voted for Trump in sixteen, and then the democratic governor, Gretchen Whittemore in eighteen. Thirty percent of those people I also found in the pull. The democratic senator Gary Peters leads Republican, John James, forty eight to forty three percent in what it is a competitive, zennor race that we don't about nearly enough denials up there. You are an outstanding memo based on this policy message vice for Democrats, which will get you in a second but war or some of the other was interesting. Take always for you from this pole sure I've been may take away. Is that the only thing holding Donald Trump up in Miss and I would assume mental and diagnoses chronic country is, he still is performing reality on the economy on every issue, but as a sour not have they do not like him personally, they think he is doing a bad job on krona virus if they don't trust him to handle health care

reopening the country just about any other issue. He voters very sceptical to him, but he has economic strength and we will talk about how to undermine that. I thought like there are some very good news for binding in this one he's winning that's good. And that that really matters, because. Joe Biden has to win Michigan, there is no path to two: seventy without any Michigan for trouble, no credible path. You could put together sums it just harder mattress, an area where he loses Michigan bite. Winds was hats and our loses Michigan and then went like North Carolina Georgia system Tivoli, not how these things were. So it's urgent running their second. There are five percent undecided voters in this race and what is very good news for Joe Biden there, while they dont know a lot about Biden yet, and I have really those voters have made from opinions on em. They have Es Donald Trump, and they do not like him. The humdrum Favourably ratings by among the fibers,

undecided. Voters is twenty seven sixty three. It? Is a business and so you know, we know that more resources to be dying to identify exactly who those voters are, but You want you can assume from those numbers that there are some decent portion of our people who fit into that. Thirteen percent of Bernie voters who had not yet committed to Biden and so like. That is very that's a very that's a great if you are winning any undecided. Voters favour you opposition to ban the. The second peace that I thought was a warning sign for Biden- is. Voters, are there's a Susie, as a challenge for Biden among Michigan That is it. I don't need them a sense of like. Are they committed to voting or not? I mean that

guidance favourable ratings, which are thirty, nine. We too, which is low, certainly and lower than trumps. He has a forty three percent very unfavourable number, and only twenty one percent very favourable, so Republicans have decided to hate Biden before Democrats have decided to fall in love with them and he's gotta our work to do there to define himself with those, whereas you have to get you do not want you're very there will have to be. Essentially I see you're. You know what you're very unfair number to be essentially twice you very safe number, the reaction. I got from a lot of people when I treated this pull this morning privately and on Twitter, or just like. Oh, this is closer than I thought it would be in Michigan like I am, was wonder if expectations, because some of these national poles there's a canopy. I pull out yesterday that has been in the it by eleven, nationally safety, thirty nine, which seems crazy to me.

You know I mean. Donald Trump, only one by what a couple of point five purse percentage points Michigan and twenty. Sixteen like three points I don't know I mean I look aggression Whittemore one by ten points in twenty eighteen, but then I think there's no universe, that bind wins by Wittmus margin. Ten points: did you find three points? like about right, maybe a little on the low side. I also that we should mention by the way you know trumps. Appropriating here is higher than it is throughout the rest of the country? It was like forty eight fifty two, which is a little little too high. For me, his job overrating is favourable. It is much worse than that that its forty three, I thought Whittemore approval rating was lower and our pole than it has been in some of the other polls that we ve seen and although she's above water, you know she's much he's doing better than tromp, but it still like, I think, was fifty two or fifty three

So in general, this policy seemed a little bit closer than I think some people thought Michigan is right. Now did you, think out or what was her well. As you know, by tend to dance on the dark out of these things, and so I've always that's what exactly? That's so through three PETE three of Joe Biden, Winds, Michigan by three points than That is a very strong result. It saw an, I think, it says you think, that's a result that is consistent with him also winning Wisconsin's insulates. Since Hansen is usually closer than Michigan with a very narrow victory in Wisconsin and we're in for all of these always the kaweah the last few months, as they were presuming some form of normal ish turn out well, re. Normal ash voting out are traded in norm. Vote opportunities right, we're we're not we're looking at a situation where you have these, the normal, be you have enough

owning access to people the chance, but you're not doing what they did in the council. We are putting five voting locations in Milwaukee. Right leg is mortal eyes Ebeneezer markets either day. If you have five Odin locations in Milwaukee you're, not when he was content, And you get the stuff and so presuming that I think. Three three point: one in Michigan seems something like a one point: when in Wisconsin Right and I guess I've always been under the assumption that this the order of the blue while states that, just based on demographics and partisan history is that Pennsylvania will be the easiest wine for bind the flap. Part because of his ties. There has been a whole life and philosophy media market Michigan. Second, it was counted the hardest and that's just has to do with the percentage of the vote. That is non college white voters which has trumps base we also tested a few different running, needs to see how much the potential candidates might affect the race between Trump and by.

That they didn't have a statistically significant effect, either way any of them even then we tested Gretchen Whim or two, and you know she's governor there what did you think that the repeated I. It's not only get super surprising. You know that Whittemore is, as governor fur me now over a year now, so it's not like you say a credibly well known figure with a long history in the state and So it's not surprisingly. In their anxious generally, there has always been a huge homestead effect. Taking folks. I think it I think we have to do more. Research must be done on this report about a rough internationally. They get a sense is if there is a real political imperative behind one picture, the other. Right now, it sort of seems like a tie. It wisdom

You get among all of them in it, Biden has some room to peck among the people to be presumed to be on a short list without tipping the race in the wrong direction. So there are also a series of questions about the pandemic. Trumps corona virus, frivolous lower than his job approval vote, are slightly more worried about opening up too soon than waiting too long. Forty eight forty three four One percent say we should take all possible precautions, regardless of what it means for the economy. Thirty, two Then say we should go back to living normally in the people making too much of the virus, with twenty seven percent sort of in the middle saying we should stay, closed for a while longer and then start opening up in voters are slightly opposed to the protests at the Michigan State Capital, but only slightly. Before we get to the economic stuff. How much do you think covert has changed the political environment from this or not Much to your credit, you said that at the beginning of this year, like part,

in polarization I dont know. Even if this is a disaster, how much is actually going to change things I think it. Definitely there is a year. You talk, other persuadable you'd, have very university talks about trumps numbers among the undecided. Deadly made trumps task of what in this election harder. I think it has shifted if we It proceeded on the normal course where we are still dealing with in a forest and unemployment no pandemic people could be our homes, I would said: Tromp was a slight favour to win reelection right the popular vote when real A narrow by electoral college graduate. Doesn't sixteen as we it here today. I would say that Biden is a stronger here the popular vote and a slight slight favoured to win the prison, despite what National Policy- and that is in some measure, because the tremendous attention it's been on track for the last sixty days where he has performed miserably right, every element of the job he now, whether its taking

unregulated drugs? Do it focusing on absurdity, like Obama, K, interested a terrible job at managing the pandemic. That has hurt him, but it's on the margins. Everything is going to happen on the margins are like. I do not believe that trumps Corona virus numbers can get much lower than air, no matter what happens Yeah- and I noticed this noise two weeks in a lot of the other national poles- he is like you back down and the low forties nationally, both his proliferating and his corona virus numbers, and we should set course this policy may eleven to the seventeenth, but I think there is even being more erosion since the seventeenth Humph from on trumps numbers into the others be is now in the forty, a low forties which, as you know, he's been there before in his presidency. It's not like a new low, but I do think there's a big difference if we get into November with Trump and the low forties versus trump and amid forties, which he was at the beginning of the crisis. So you know we, you said that

at the beginning, but on just about every issue and attribute we tested voters in Michigan. Trust Biden over Trump, except for two one was managing the economic recovery, where they trust Trump, or and undecided. Voters trust him More and helping small businesses recover So what is your advice on how Democrats can change? These and when the economic argument will ultimately that's what it comes down to the only thing. Keeping trunk in this race is his economic prosperity. Comes from a couple of things, Wine is in have to remind ourselves of this all the time which is trumps history, as a business person from outside of politics, gives him an aura of economic credibility among a larger segment of voters than most democratic pundits. Ravages are willing to admit, which is why it's, not just the maggots, not just the maggots people and hee hee,

they trust him after everything. He has done wrong to manage economic recovery better than by and that is concerned. And they have not. Voters have not yet connected, although it can still happen, trumps. Failure to prepare for and respond to the pandemic with the economic devastation. Are now feeling there are still being treated like demerit. People blame someone other than the sort of the vote I would say is that the people there persuadable group within the sector, which is a small group, might do blames someone or something other than tromp for the economic mess that we are currently at and are likely to be in And so it the job number one. The most important thing that Democrats can do is take down trump on the economy and there is a series of messages that we tested in this Paul about how to do that. The first and most important wine, which I will read to you

Joe Biden says that Donald Trump responds to the pandemic is more focused on helping big corporations and wealthy investors in small businesses and american families, The Ciampi ministration has given hundreds of millions of dollars and less a huge corporations. Professional sports teams, while thanks a family on businesses, got shut up, you'll notice, gonna Ellie wake her shot in there I could do is out of the question that Paul, undecided voters agreed and a net of thirty two set of undecided? What is agreed with that statement? Huge numbers and huge number and the best of anything that anything we does it there, it is tied with a transitional talk about the second by sermons. That's message or by, and there is opportunity to do that as well. Check, protection programme loans are given out and you a situation where tens of thousands of small businesses have been shut out so far, basically what I am arguing for in this isn't like we are not. This under the category of unsolicited,

As for Joe Biden, which is an actual segment on the near attempts at that age right now, but like it like. We did this pole for the purpose of providing guidance, just to campaign run a nationally or in Michigan or political, groups doing advertised, but also for all of our listeners activists who are talking to voters all the time right. Either as producer of organizing program or just in there, Data day, quarantine, wife were there talking to them. Men are friends to get involved, trying to convince persuade there uncles and answer parents about who to vote for so this is thinking this is free definitely unsolicited, but message guidance for everyone who is talking about politics, and so economic message that focuses on how Donald Trump is putting corporations and wealthy people over the interests of middle and working class. People is an incredibly powerful message. We pursue their couple ways to make them We tested the Mitch Mcconnell Donald Trump proposal to ensure that

corporations cannot be sued if their workers get sick or die from kroner virus. After return to work. Only thirty, seven percent of our sport opposition had forty two percent strongly oppose it. It is incredibly unpopular, and crash should hammer Republicans every day. For that and then we should not forget the most important and effective political weapon we have had, which is both Donald Trump Passing, huge mass of tax got for corporations, have all and paying for it by one and care and keep people off their health insurance in Arizona thought about like what would like what is a manifestation of this, and I think it is important- and this is how things are going forward- To tie this economically, but to the current a virus? So we don't really miss you separate things, and so you can see a series of ads. You know of mission for, in this case Michigan small business owners who were unable to get, He p learns. While all these corporations, who donate Republicans our friends from Scotland and so see

who has been helped. Who has been heard by the trumpet economic recovery the huge strategic imperative for Democrats, because they cannot trumps. The economic approve already under way, He will lose a selection, he will lose a big the. The other two messages that sort of were as effective as the war Biden as the one that you just read was Joe fine says, the President Trump should stop blocking aid that would help citizens states protect the jobs of teachers, firefighters, cops and other essential workers. So this sort of federal aid that has become a political issue because Trump has made it one because it makes everything political and Joe Biden says that, after a month in which we sacrifice by staying home and keeping businesses close, wasted all that time by failing to provide enough testing and protective gear that would allow us to safely leave our homes and go back to work. That was civically effective among undefined voters, and it is to me I added that statement in there because I was trying to think about her Democrats could be

on the side of reopening but reopening safely and pointed trumpet say the reason that we're still second, our homes is because he hasn't figured out a fucking plan to get us out of our homes in a safe way. He just wants everyone till I go run free and let the virus from loose and so I think it yeah you're right, though, that people we ve somehow get us tie the economic case against Trump to his failures on managing the pandemic. Since that sort of pushing on an open door I think that the challenges- and I'm glad you say this- this isn't just advice for the bottom campaigns advice for all of us like from There's something racist trumps, Us things into phobic authoritarian. He talks about, You know drinkin bleach, downing, Hydroxyl clerk. When you know it goes everyone talks about it. It's easy to get reporters to care people on Twitter. Reading about it. It get share of the cost all of these sort of economic arguments trump and Republicans proposing

all of these policies that help corporations at the expense of average people. It is so hard to get them covered to get people to care about it. To get people to share, and like I'm gonna, just say this now, every fucking podcast that we do with it is so important that this gets through because we'll all remember that after two thousand and sixteen we sat around being like, why did Hillary Clinton have a better economic argument? Why couldn't her economic argument breakthrough and we like playing the Clinton campaign and shirt, Japan has some responsibility for that, but it's also it all of our responsibility at this point to get that message out there. When we're talking to friends talking to persuadable voters when we're doing phone banking when we're doing Digital, organizing, whatever we may do like we have to make the economic argument, we have to get it out there because, like you said that is the only the only thing: that's keeping trumpets approval ratings up, and by the way is we get deeper into the fall more people. I think you're gonna be focused on the economy.

Because the economic pains gonna continue and there's gonna be a lot of people out of work and people can it be wondering you know how do we improve the situation right now? you know who is who is going to lead us out of this, and the answer has to be job. I That's right, so you wanna talk about you about trumps, best message and sort of what to do. There sure so the second in the mouth memory. Where three strategic objectives, the first one is defining, who trumpets fighting for new mines. However- and I will say one of the most alarming results in the pool was did Joe by and Donald Trump are tied on the should have. Who do you trust a fight for someone like you? The person who wins that question almost always wins the election. And Joe binds. History has policies since that he should win on that question going away and he is not doing that now. It is way, and we should just stipulate you lay and others in the biased forget about this- is he has never campaigned in Michigan didn't really want adds there he's this estate. It came out

Super Tuesday, and so it is like. He is in inverse transition. I haven't you have spent any money or go there, and so that's always a good place to be. So the second tragic imperatives we have to neutralize the China issue. Best message is about how he and is responsible for the virus. Trunk took the got bold step banning travel from China and the Joe Biden called him xenophobic for doing it. And this is a subject of tens of millions of dollars of ads happening right now on your television on your screen. If you live in a battleground state, Charles during the China thing not just to shirk blame not just out of reflexive racism, but because it is a message that works for him it its powerful in this pole, as the party the message that we just read from binding What's up to neutralize and tested two messages. There are successful in that way, It is one that undermines trumps response to the krona virus,

China. By talking about all the times, he took China's word in praise them for their response. That message ass, it very but we also tested a message that spoke to The cosy financial relationships between Trump and the chinese government, sizzler on the trademarks that the chinese government has vodka trump, while she serving in the White House to with from what she is, millions of dollars that that also tested incredibly well and. Some people may say, while isn't that waiting with your chin, because the term campaign and others have tried to make a real issue of Hunter binds ties to China. We also said the Hunter Biden message. The trump has been putting for that message, ass, it very poorly. So what You can take away from that as of at least right now, before the trunk campaign is done to millions of dollars and binds head to defend him. Voters are instinctively more willing to believe that Trump in his family are corrupt in it for themselves and they are binds and

if you can utilise the China issue, it is going to hurt tromp across a host of actors. It's gonna get further undermine whatever remaining strength. He has on his krona virus response to It undermines his America first message, which is at its core in I message for some segment of hours at and it helps neutralize the attack on buying that he is soft on, so that that is a bigger to comparative Democrats, in that There is for everyone, because in a presidential election year, perhaps at the top of a ticket flows down and then third strategic imperative, as we found a very large and growing concern about the national debt It was the issue that people were more concerned about, including working with the national debt and their own health just wild in this Paul, as that that was the finding that I was most confused about and also a little nervous about. Well I don't think so that one we deceit and other poles right will. I believe this is my holiday with what research, by their

intuitively it makes a little bit of since there has been too of coverage of trains upon punch of dollars being spent over the last two months, It is just like the combination of the trojans from Congress, the torrents, the fat. It seemed like a lot of money is going We also know that. Concerns about national debt are not really about the balance in the budget. States out the box or the long term government had omitted often about it flow from this idea that that comes in tough economic times, where, someone else's getting help, and I am not and that someone else can be someone above you like banks being bailed out or can be, It is often in a way that is organised, Republicans, others, immigrant, people of color, the poor. All that you know in this is this: is a player begins, have run for very long time. Is it. Run Arabians, walk, braces welfare, green idea. It is Paul Ryan.

More subtle, but also raises makers, takers idea. All of this is the republican play now. Democrats have to be wary of this because Republicans have a natural advantage on these deficit issues, even though history is very clear that Democrats bring that have set down a Republican exploited with tax cuts and on pay for what so how to how to how she have navigate this one do not default to the language of austerity and start talking, out curbing the spending of Medicare so scrutiny that that with that is a that is a political mistake and it is a fatal a mistake, because if we were we're gonna be heading into an economy where we need to spend money to help the american people get out of it grow the economy. If we want ourselves in with austerity language, it would be a fatal are so Get, let's have a big debate about who has a better plan to deal with the deficit of long term. Tromp has possibly, and in repeatedly said he wants to cut medical and social security to do that. Why

refusing to raise taxes. One penny on the rich and corporations democratic one. It protects austerity, Medicare and ass. The wealthy corporations to pay more in taxes right that is about but we can when it is the battle that we want in two thousand and twelve, when Mitt Romney made the incredibly foolish decision to put Mr Prodi as Medicare on his ticket and then The third thing is, we should also is opportune to go back and remind people, but the tax got because too we of dollars were spent. To give a huge tax cut to corporations and the wealthy, We should remind people of that in the last thing is, is really important. Is policy longs reporters. Try to think about visits and spending separately. Deficits are these big things that come from this day of the economy, the growth in Medicare, so security to happen of the long term in Scratch canary spending the spending the Congress votes on is a tiny fraction of that price. But voters don't think that way

and when their care about the deficit, they also what they really care about, spending and so tax on Trump for being an unwise steward of taxpayer. Dollars will have we have more much more impact in the situation, so you can see it so we just a previously which do quite well about around states at least prepay endemic. I know you, taxpayer dollars going into trumps pocket through his hotels in resorts being even more powerful. Just evocative examples of that. Spending the one eyed thing as recently as the report that the? U S, parliament is going to spend five hundred million dollars to paint trumps wore black for Noah? sensible purpose and so those that's the kind of stuff. It's just that that will not work Are you able to get hold of making like any misuse of economically every dollar is whether it is loans companies, you don't need people, you know chow.

That went to people who should have got them all of those things if you hold trope accountable for that. If we, that is our way to fight deficits not to adopt vaguely sounding republican talking points No, this is important also because I think a lot of progressives ends of liberal, leaning media types, but Leave that in the Obama years. We you know focused on deficits and budget deals because you know some like NEO, liberal, think, tank and DC told us to or because we wanted, we thought we could get republican votes and we thought we could reach out to Republican the and really at the core of this is anyone who sat in a focus group with voters or looked at poles knows that the can turn about the government. Spending too much money comes up all the time. For the reasons that you pointed out, people say I'm living within my budget. Why can't the government live within its budget? and that, as far as the understanding usually goes, people

it's been worried about hyperinflation, nor you know the debt to GDP ratio no knows about any of that shit they just, that the government spending money it doesn't have in their minds. They know that try to live within a budget, and they also know that nothing the government has done has made. Any improvement on their own lives. At least the bacon perceive so there why are my tax dollars getting spent on a bunch of shit that I dont end up? Seeing and now we have this deficit, like that. I'm just saying that's their mindset and like you said, the answer is not to say, ok. Well, then, I'm to talk about austerity. Like Republicans the answers to say these fuckers wanna give tax breaks to big company he's an fuckin billionaires and run up the deficit and to pay, or going to cut your health care, your Medicare Europe, Social Security, that other running up the deficit and you're not get anything from that. Winning message, was a winning message and twenty twelve against you know Romney and Paul Ryan and in democratic half, do

Deliver that message now, because otherwise, you're gonna get Donald Trump sang Democrats just Joe Biden, the Democrats are gonna want to spend more money on people who aren't you that's their plan like just because I will spend my life trying to correct the record in the summer of two thousand and eleven the I think we Brok Obama office stipulated that there's only some things would have done differently. I think some of the language we used around somebody deficit issues, blot into the premise there We don't need to do so and we haven't even, but she does very clear on one important, fucking point, which is dead. I feel that we were trying to do with John Vainer Republicans was not cutting deficits, were deficit sake, a marriage, in families and workers were hurting, and we were true and who trade short term to families and workers Archer spending peril

Skype, those sorts of things in exchange for long term deficit reduction. There thing There were in various versions the deal that I that in hindsight, and I've been in there but ultimately brought about almost trying to do it. He can to help workers in a sub optimal situation where a bunch of lunatic tea party members can one half of one branch of Congress. And by the way that the biggest portion of what we hope to achieve for deficit reduction long term was higher taxes on the wealthy the new tax reform that raise taxes on the wealthy and corporations, just so people now, ok, so I think the most immediate example of how Democrats can start hammering the economic message we ve been talking about from this pole is the fight over. The next economic relief package we have. Over thirty million people out of work, climbed forty million business closing all over the country standard unemployment. Insurance is due to expire in July, the paycheck protection M is due to run out around August chairman FED Jerome Powell said:

unemployment could hit twenty five percent and that of Congress. Doesn't do more. The economy could be quote permanently damaged, but here's what Mitch Mcconnell said about Congress. Doing more quote. I don't think we have yet. Felt the urgency of acting immediately and hears house, minority leader, Kevin Mccarthy quote. I dont see the need right now for another stimulus package and here's Whitehouse Economic adviser Kevin. Has it who said? the Trump is going to quote, wait and see, using that they know that their sabotaging the economy in a year where a republican and is running for reelection like what are they doing here. I am We have no idea eggs zero sense Nancy Policy in church humor, who are trying to do the right thing for their constituents in the country they serve? Are offering Republicans a life

and they are like get your lifeline away from EU. You, socialists, liberals. I am going to go down with the ship in this case. I think actually, because I mean day, but is it? Is it possible, though, that they sort of just our eye? logical extremists, and they really believe that Maybe they see those those debt numbers to you know people are worried about too much spending and they think about thing for the economy is just more tax cuts and cutting regulation, and you know all of this horrible government spending is gonna screw up the economy. Is it possible that they actually believe that now I am sure they pretend to wake. They like they definitely believe with all of their hearts, that helping poor people is bad. But they don't believe so that that is true they also believe that helping corporations is good, that is the fundamental. Like that

everything in between that is pretty malleable, I think you're couple things are mere one is, I do think it's a little better negotiating tactic from Mcconnell Where is he now? applause. He made a move, which was, past the Heroes act in she did that In order to have that be the text, started from so Mcconnell is trying to create some space between when that happened in when it goes so that he retains controls the pen the next time around doesn't get but I do think that they are somewhat reflecting tromp who So always icy convince himself. The things are better than they are. So People tell tromp trouble like? Seventy five different economic forecasts, you of a range of thing, see beyond our be his economic advisers. Is cable They turned any see director Charles come up and he will always pick them

this most optimistic because that's just who he is, and so they reflect their rights. They once again get their governing from kind of reality that does not exist. I think they're position could change mightily when the next job numbers come out we once again today. Another two point: four million people fell for unemployment games. We know given how should Eddie you I system in this country that the number is much larger than so. We are at forty million Americans, essentially over the last six weeks. Whenever it is who have lost their jobs, but is a massive numbers, have a massive impact on the economy. Could they be shocked in action, maybe I also think they are. Basically hurting themselves to on the lips. I guess it. I guess this is the policy equivalent jerking hydroxyl queen, I mean it gives an explosion, is sort of. How did the Democrats sort of use this to their political advantage and make the case that, with that, we start to talk about what

Michigan Paul. You know, in my view, I would run around saying like here's them. Public and plan right now to fix the economy and put you back Work number one give companies the freedom forty back to work and then, if you get sick or customers get sick, They are absolved of accountability because there's no liability protections so far. People back to work, even if they get sick. That's number one number, two: Let insurance companies discriminate against people with pre existing conditions, which will now include having the a virus and number three mm. Tax cuts for wealthy investors, because they want to capital gains tax cuts and that's it. That's their three pronged plan to fix the economy. And they don't want to do anything else. Lindsey, Graham the other day, said. The Donald Trump agrees with him that extending unemployment insurance to people who have lost jobs through no fault of their own is quote hurting, The recovery is heard.

The recovery in Lindsey, Graham and Donald Trump estimation that we are making sure that people who are stuck at home not working, are getting the salary that had when they were working through no fault of their own business, somehow hurting the economic recovery. If we can't, if we can prosecute this message like fuckin, give it up, Let me in some ways there trying to re run. Their play of two thousand nine two thousand and ten it is a Democrats of spending too much money running up deficits accused of wanting to help people who are Other? If you well, you know, sort quotes inequality in whatever crypto and less crypto racist way. You approach that But here is the problem there, fucking charge now rights are in charge of the White House in the Senate, and I think they are, struggling to bit what there is. Ultimately,

The ruling party since Brachmans like it has been entirely in oppositional party and even gaining local power? Do not change that fact. Right, there's still running against Obama. We know three years after you left the office, and so they don't have, like they're, not a governing party didn't have capacity for governing and that hurts them politically, because the solution to their political problem is a governing response. Not a tweet, is not more facts. The stories. It's not distraction, it is solving a problem and that's where they are absolutely fucking flummoxed. So we talked about what Democrats do from a message standpoint. I wondering what you think, policy and humor, and the Democrats in Congress should do because there's one scenario like you said: This is a negotiating tactic and we get to a place where you know and you already seen reporters talk about the outlines of this potential compromise. Where Democrats get inside. The Democrats should get this like federal aid too.

AIDS and they get an extension of unemployment insurance in extreme for some limited protections for companies. Vetture court unquote doing the right thing and making sure that their workplaces are safe policy seemed to say that she was open to that, and so did he came Jeffreys and some kind of limited number of of tax cuts due Democrat should pursue a deal like this or make is, in my view, anything that takes liability, protection and tax cuts, sort of off the table as sort of political message for the fall is a mistake, but at the same time we want, responsible and went on I'm an insurance runs out. We want to make sure that people who are struggling habit- and we want to make sure that states get the money they need to protect a lot of jobs that otherwise we lose mean ultimately Republicans are trying to once again exploit the inherent responsibility. Gina democratic leaders,

which is their Nancy policies presupposes perspective. And frankly of remembers from a yo see to the most endanger Frontline member. I have x number of people who lost their jobs, my district, and if I can get them extra money, I better fucking. Do that because that's what they left me to do, and even if I Even after swallow a bitter political pills, do that. I'm gonna do that, and when I can change that about Democrats like we should not and, frankly, cannot devolve into cruel Mcconnell asked nihilism like that is not a tool that it will ever be in our toolbox, which is why we want this party and not that one, but I think tat, rats should we are obviously you should be willing to have conversations, but it better be good. Fucking deal right, iraqi and they have won in, they do have average, they should use it. And I think separate from that as part like they make an increase. Their leverage bide message on this and I think the way this can work as we have now reached the point where

We need a unified sat five said of an economic priorities for the recovery that job I as for chuck regression. There is a unified fright and in all the surrogates and everyone from Barack Obama was before and Bernie Sanders all out there talking about It's like it sounds overly simple and I totally get that and I apologise by. We are trying to communicate a complicated set of public, he's in a pandemic with an absolute fuck, that media environment, so we're gonna have to oversimplified some complicated things. But we have those five things. I think the house should. Vote on those through would have remote or actual means they do on a regular basis and send them over it. And like Democrats, you gotta for the Senate and demand that, and we should just really focus I think it's easier to say here are the five things that we want Republicans to do that the refusing to do than it is. Please pass the Heroes act. Right right. The five things can be from the Hurons ACT,

and that we should sultry that as vinegar as the you, the first piece of the negotiating tax from a message in perspective. We need five easily understood things that we can focus on. It can be part birth earned media strategy ads on paid digital campaign answer. These are the fight these. If I think these can it, these were up again and comments are refusing any- and if you want it's high that too, they won't do these five things because they want my boy protection for for corporations. You can do that, but dad you gotta know you gotta play outwards, can active it's gonna end with you. Accepting mobility protection. Probably can't do it yet I mean to simplify it even more. Our message just millions of people are out of work. Millions of people are struggling like why won't Donald Trump and Republicans in Congress do anything about it. Do something do something you are in charge You know like you just you can see the graphic rate.

The binding democratic plan here are the five things The report from our is nothing nothing. The review. Is we Forty million Africans have also job. We should do nothing else, zero, I doubt that is a message that I think can can be. Try and you can say that, because they already gave nearly a trillion dollars and loans to companies and by the way. That is a message that It's with everyone from Joe Biden to Joe mentioned air sea, and everyone in between. They are also that, even if the Democrats, don't necessarily all agree on the policies that we employment. If we were in charge, that's ok, too. Right now, Donald Trump the White House and is in the White House and Republicans, run the Senate, and we have to make the case that when the country faced its greatest economic crisis since the depression, They decided that the answer is to do nothing, to wait and see to not act with urgency.

What they ve all set. We have all their quotes. You can put Mcdonald's quote and Mccarthy's quote: it has its quote all in and add me can show unemployment rate go up and all the people losing their jobs, and these people are saying: do nothing pretty easy. Ok, when we back, we'll have dance conversation with Dave Waigel from the Washington Post pots of America has brought. You buy Stamp Stockholm for all our sakes, we need to avoid crowds any way we can right now. But what, if you need to go to the post office? What Any postage just send letters and packages, dont worry stamps dot com is here to help stay calm brings all the services of the? U S, postal service, right to your computer, in safety, your own home. Soon, we use your computer to print official. U S postage twenty four, seven, for any letter any package, any class of male anywhere you want to send.

Once your mail is ready, just leave it for your mail carrier schedule a free package pick up a drop in the mailbox? No human contact required that simple. We lost him, sure. Do I miss the days when I could stroke the cheek of my mail carrier? You know like before you that is. With the way we use to, let you know stamps com is a no Rayner, especially now saving you time and money and keeping you safe in these crazy times. That's why we view stamps dot com since our early days here cricket media right now our listeners get a special offer that includes a four week trial, plus free postage and a digital scale. Without any long term commitment you just go to stamps dot com. You click on the microphone at the top of the homepage, and you type in the word crooked, that stamps dot com enter code, crooked,

stay safe everyone, I'm Paragraph Keith, a reporter. At a reporter at the New Yorker magazine, new podcast of change, to get a rumour, I haven't been able to shake since I first heard it years ago. He came from someone inside the CIA and the story was that the agency had written one of the best selling rock songs of all time, a song that change the world. So that was the Tipp started me on the story and it only got crazier from their listen to all aid episodes of wind of change for free on Spotify, an original serious from Pineapple Street studios, crooked media and Spotify. I'm join now by Washington, Post political corresponded and writer of the political newsletter. The trailer Dave like they will come back to Passive America. Now, let's give me back, You have more things in your all than I do the wind quarantine started. There were no things on this. While we we really, we live in fear. The remainder account in this house. I want to start with you made a decision that I think was your own too late.

Within the Trump and Biden APP ecosystems works in a period of time. Noticeably asking you why quarantine going too well? Look at what will lead you to do this? Why? I realise that so everything campaigns, dude is, is it some sense prefab and, unlike meant to advertise, though you when I was going to rallies, I was getting it do what the campaigns the presentation of what they wanted me to thank the Vote who were there with the self selected, absolutely every election voters, often voters still. I was missing something as I was not interacting with anyone outside a phone calls, and I wondered how the campaigns were communicating to them to the faithful side to say. Let me it wasn't like I consumed amused and people have done watch nothing but fox for a weaker, take your take you're every cell I myself saw by out your website. This was just I subscribe to what would be a normal amount of

daily media and interruptions, which wasn't that much it was first, I use both abiden and trunk campaign, apps universe poked around without without actually pretending to be somebody else and bring. Think of something just just as if I was a interested person who might support them enough to sign up, and then I watched their broadcasts and go although the text messages and in every way, with the campaigns for just totally living up to the stereotypes, the truck campaign have a tonne, a really in your face, aggressive advertising. At all times. The tax are all advertising a deal that you,

join at this moment or you're going to lose out on it at gold club presidential Club, the bad ones are kind of long lackadaisical pay chance. I'd love to see if you want to support this messages- and this is the vine app- is kind of directing you to go to the website to help the Trump app as a game. Basically, where you get more points by getting more people to sign up, and some people disagree on which of these on whether the Trump thing is as effective as it is busy before after Actually kind of getting in the mindset in saying, ok, we'll find a backdrop found whereby that you'd only it more psyched up as it transcend consuming that stuff. It's it's deftly much more interesting than you after each hour, long broadcast of a drum. Thank you Are you understand why everything is packaged as the media being unfair and why the dividing videos, I think, take place and basically then the

normal CNN and pr reality where things are think you're toughened had been: has some ideas but they're, not everything as it is a gospel the against your by, for example, have you hot too, since your piece, the Biden campaign or The other Democrats about whether there is another version of the by now come angers of some of these features, obviously not to Dixon The trip has them, but there are some new features coming that what sort of ample experience. Yet they. They added more events and more features. I dont, if it were rolling, version? The ep- I don't know yet if they, if all they do, is basically copy. What I think you did

twelve and the Miller campaigned in sixteen. That would not be seen as baldly innovative, but it would give you more of a one stop shop for campaign volunteering. I think that's how far up is that on the agenda, because people can actually go out not under his body All you do is donate make phone calls so that my I have not heard whether ones coming but having gone through, both of them a lot of the stop being recommended with stuff. You can't even do until people problem to move around some. I normally again So I take it that you probably think that these acts are probably even more important in sort of our current environment where so much politics is happening through screens and online. That, obviously, but also its

as the app is the amount of, and that that the tone of the stuff you get by watching videos, archives of the trunk campaigner put out every week. I gotta tell reporters first, but if Europe's support or you get to learn to, who is gonna be on their show every night of nightly show, given that they are more attention this this week, we're living in right now because they rebranded it. I will go in infrastructure was the right. You lessen the view that a visa for that you have been going over the town was very much the same is there say we're here we're having a great time. Everything was going to come back to normal soon and aren't you guys sick of the media, pretending that Trump is doing a bad job are you saying the media not covering this or that I'd scandal in the binding content is much more of a preview. I think of of what the Bible

the agency could be which is fairly credential. Familiar people holding government jobs in thinking about ways to improve things which is not as exciting and if your cover some almost got of honest about what is necessary irrelevant governing but exciting for campaigning, and it is not doing much. That is that hooky for campaign. Have to be pretty motivated to pay full attention to the buyer and content. You know it sort of interesting, like there's always been this talk that you know how from a lawsuit doesn't sixteen. He was gonna start Trump TV and that the asked the future- and this is sort of what's happening with in the app It seems on one level, it's like more from the perspective of Democrats, sounds like a more republican propaganda, but they all we already have fox, was no trumps unhappy with all the time by it's pretty good governance, and away, and all these other networks

what is the purpose of the content on the outcome? Is it to keep people there so that you can make it monetize your presence there yet? no totally, it mean if you're watching boxer, even o n you're, not being told in the same window you're watching watching that that you can help give money, and I think that people there is a limit you going give twenty hundred dollars, but You can sign up for a monthly donation they're, just every way that the campaign balls you into being a supporter, and it they can tell you pretty directly how to help, although it's interesting, what they do and to focus on the other. There is not much from tv content, for example, in mentioning I'd, be a special action in California. Last week there was a lot of content, is gonna going through the the various permutations of Obama Gate things like that, so Simon saying saying here is the best easily do right now to help relax the president, it's just kind of putting you in them

I said that made that makes you once Yvonne you you're from war, which I think has been pretty if it's pretty effective and if you go, if you're on the app you have a run down in various ways to help and its everything from Adam calls to how to become a mega. Bonn were for the campaign. I want an answer. Was they also? They have delivered. Those then are the lip really deliver. Boobs bank, the daily beef read about this months ago, but the trunk campaign has done what Obama do celery did what I was born did and what Biden has done, which is, if you don't need on this one particular fundraising drive. You have a chance to have dinner with that. The candidate in this case the president and Trump, has not actually fulfilled that part of the bargain David. The bees looked into this in their been events, were just there's, somebody from the campaign in some free food there, but.

Not the president bill, I'm really glad so you do get the sense from absorbing all this stuff that just you ve got and the pulling back it up a base for Trump. That is much more much more interested in so warning him. Even even the things aren't going very well or even if you're not getting very narrow promise does the adjusted the power of being. But beyond the winning team and the one that makes liberals crazy is really a good motivator in a way that this is not an equivalent for the Biden side, even when they ve had it. Hence we need just doesn't embraced the same approach that you should be frustrated and, if you're at an angry at the time that even gonna jump on some some trade, for example, that the trunk people would jump on any kind of buying, gaffer and gasping I doubt it I'm just being about to set to work on a virus and stopping in saying in a different way of preventing. He lost the vine ethnically over money quicker off that were there. The bombing campaign does the push for everything. That is a national story.

A day, but rob you know, Democrats do not have a fox forget, or else you wanna say about, msnbc the daytime is all hosted by the former republican members of Congress, who are targets of troops tweets and journalists like our tat, an intermodal like a as you, you know you, but you ve talked to a lot of activists. You travel controller time. Do you think there could be an appetite for a progressive democratic version of the sort of programming that the Trump app is doing, or is it various manufacture, the called the personality of trouble, Well, is it's a good question because there is that kind of programming, but not oriented towards Biden supporter. So if you want to do so at sea? Msnbc doesn't do it for you, you can watch the young Turks. You can watch the ills rising, show watcher, jimmied

or you can watch secular talk there. There is actually a network of this stuff. It just so happens that it's all oriented nothing built. It was built quite a lot during Bernie Sanders to campaign for president and hope it's just it's not very morally reinforcing if Europe as you're, just in mainstream liberal Democratic voted for binding in the primary does not give you lots of reasons why you should be supporting him, and I think this is a. This is a big psychological question. Frankly, what motivates one group of voters over the other? We ve seen, there's big differences in how was it stick to this and how the Democrats Republicans view the media even even when the media fifteen twenty years ago, but

do you imagine MSNBC was was advocating for Iraq WAR, Liberal trusted the media didn't dip as low as republican Trust for the media is now does because it is not for publishing positive things about the president, so I dont think people seek out information in the same way. We are, I think, it's honestly facebook groups they dont have atomic content but have just kind of positive reinforcement, chatrooms that are kind of walled off. I think that is the safest place for liberals at the moment I dont know know if a network that was just let's go team would would be seen as very credible travellers or succeed it does but on the left a bit- and this is not whereby no that's not whether that the party, as the main, the party is not all behind the agenda, overturning the and be governed governance of the country, replacing it with something european style may move more in that direction, but that's that's! There's too much dissent in the party worth is very

will the Centre party about content that is trumps, fixing everything there is like we, the progressive done, a pretty our very eyes. Java, building up a media infrastructures is largely oppositional with its Inter party warfare not intervened in party worker, You wrote last week about never trumpery wanting to have their own convention. Why are they doing that? Is it just simply to go or is just to annoy tromp trick him into tweeting like? What's the thinking? Oh, I think you mention two other reasons at other really is that we all we dont, actually know what the world looks like in twenty twenty one. When in the premise of this convention is the down trumpet lose, and so one thing that the economic balance nor crystals etc want to do is get in there.

Whom early to change the direction of a party if prompt loses, I think, there's a bit less coherent planning for if he wins and other term awe, and because there is an expectation by them that lets say he loses leave aside the chatter about what he really stepped out or not that sort of thing. What he's gonna be younger than trope heightened eligible,

President again have a big media network in a lot of supporters going to be even a lost, more votes after implanting republic in the country, and so I think what you're trying to do to is creative beachhead so that if he loses there's a there's, people arguing. Okay, we lost because greatest reason I mean in some ways doing what they would replace teeth due in twenty sixteen- and I think, you're aware of Paul ryan- was completely ready applause to give a speech denouncing what Trump stood for and breathe in a reworking the party either trying to do that for my position of political weakness with a bit more influence in the in the press and the other day I wrote about it. I think

it's like the convention itself. Its are unclear how it will unfold if the convention has to be forced a virtually, but there actually be in a better position. Does there's gonna be maybe a few hundred a few thousand people signing up for this thing and I ll come out with a message about the document principles they appall on whether they support one candidate that the people in advance women support by how many support tromp, which would be interesting- How many innocent rowboat for third party there, given that there are some stuff to cover, but I think it's largely about intervening in winning. The argument in nine months, I'm very curious and somewhat sceptical that the people who put that convention together will be invited back in the room. Oh yeah tromp forefront, figure that out yeah, I mean do it's it we ve seen what happens when people lose an argument and then the party then

and the party that they were part of winds and the answer is they never neuron buy back and when they lose and actually twenty seventeen was caught. A unique because we Sanders loss, yard a primary and had a lot of raw lot of influence in what the parties did for after the election. It is, I can refer this all the time with my own political, I'm really gonna starts in the stuff I lived through starts in two thousand and three and four, but its very unusual. The Democrats losing election and dont say time due to the centre and move the right, and so they be- and I think not a comparable position, because looking a bill well got five. Its presented about my the primary Bernie Sanders, forty seven percent- they wouldn't have the same role. I think they, but it was interesting about their politics, is that the plan is largely to get Trump out of office, but not become Democrats, not begin supporting the job.

Not begin supporting Democrats for Congress in saying at the time the goals that can allow their voices in this world will say this destroyed. They even David from ever. Applicants should be defeated until the Trump the trumps legacy is destroyed, but the assumption being at legacies, destroying want something back any you're right, I'm not sure, even if it's a defeat bigger than the pole suggest at the second. That's your slogan, heavy republican president, who got ninety five percent support from his own party. I think they face a real choice, but whether they should try to influence it again. Only keep everything I'm saying is a nurse in area were prompted, get beat pretty badly, whether they want to influence the majority Democrats or whether they tried it, but I think it's actually more of a question and then they presented as they might be, they might be completely homeless around the rubber can party in twenty twenty one,

would they then be you gonna, Pizarro, Neeoka Video games came out of the left and then became Republicans and Seventys? Will they be doing? The opposite will have become it? Would they be trying to shape the Democratic Party which even Joe Biden has moved to the lessons examination will be trying to correct that. The last question for you Dave you- probably have more frequent flyer miles there. Any political report are out there, you like you, really specialise in being on the ground and talk and voters and activists burning situation were like were like the resolution. Trapped in your house for a couple months now. How is that affected to reporting? And how are you thinking about this fall or even under the most optimistic scenarios? It's not going to be back to normal here I am, I dont know I'm taking it taking it as it comes, I mean I've. I wrote in the last week about.

A basically the primaries coming up in house races, summon Senate races and in normal circumstances, I'd go to the states and right about that, I'm not quite sure what the situation will be down in the story. You can't force the old story in the place of a new one in the story, now is basically about how the elections conducted, how the parties are just not so much people be counting the pavement eye to two years ago, quite this month, maybe a couple weeks later I was with Alexander has for it has in New York ass. She was camp. Ahead of their primary literally a party built into Barton Building, and I can't do that. Access is even she's not doing that so I've I've, a reason I brought I'd like many people have not felt great is it? Is it there's no clear and the point and then But the point is not clear what what will replace this? So I'm not make any assumptions. Oh it will come again when I'm getting back into my

in a car and driving the campaign, offices and tongue people in a cafe. I'm not sure that baby that happens and twenty twenty two main address this year day? Thank you so much for joining us. I'm sure we will have you back on applicants, other than your house, and ask him progresses and arduous. Well, thanks a lot of you face today Waigel for joining us today, and thanks again to our friends at change research for conducting that pole in Michigan with us. Everyone have a great memorial day. We got by everyone. The high Pod, save America is a product of cricket media, the exact If producer is Michael Martinez, arson in producer, is Jordan Waller its in edited by Andrew Chadwick. Carl Sagan is our sound engineer. Italian, Terminator Katy, long, roman puppet Dimitrios, Caroline resting Annalisa Gutierrez for production support into our did

Team Elijah Cone, Normal Conan Doyle Freed in my look him who film and upload these episodes as videos every week.