Welcome to plug the america. I'm john fabric, andean pfeiffer, on today show Joe Biden launches a new plan to forgive student debt after the supreme court strikes down. His first attempt run dissenters, tax donald trump. For me, too, supportive of lgbtq rights congresswoman alexandria, cause your ports, has joined to talk about reforming the right wing supreme court and lots more then special edition of two takes in a fake. We sniff out made up reaction from the right over the revelation. That lines were crossed and possibly bumped when one left, their nose candy in the white house. Did you write that yourself

get a lawnmower those come from then. Yes, of course, of course, I wrote my get shit. That's a present thing. I did, but first over them we can. You may have seen an episode of our subscription show terminally online pop up in your positive merrick feed check it out. If you it was him yet you'll hear me dan eliza and out What today's preoccupy arab, indeed talk about everything from run dissent is roseanne to Barbara I bargain hymer stood still the the hard one to say. I don't think that's all we talked about what else are we talking about We talked at what was operated. Well, I shall go into the north carolina right now. I think we talked about you. Not so suddenly floating your campaign for governor of California. That would happen so not subtle that you demanded, I'm told, demanded the marketing department label episodes, lap governor driver of europe,

little behind the scenes for everyone, this whole bit, but the whole bit they're all ganged up. I mean no one told me what the title was going to be it just popped up in my feed. It was a question about when we were all going to run for office and what office it was going to be. We started with with Dan and in delaware which now has to wait in line sizes, wait and wait around for christians to retire, but anyway, and then I attacks acrimony. I I wanted to talk to you about that, because I spent my for the joint weekend in a cabinet awake with families, who live in sacramento, including our friends who on a great wine bar called good news. Wine in sacramento, none have authority were being helpful. They did appreciatively that fair examine, but trying to build a small business with a delicious wine bar and you're just attacking the entire city Well, you know what go

with the sacramento for that wine bar I'll go for that perfectly perfect I'll! Tell you what does not go beyond on the house for you. I'm sorry that right now, because because for some reason I did not, I did not have a tour of sacramento from someone who lives there. So I don't the city, that's what I need. I need. You know big ec, especially from going to Ultimately live. There are some day when I am govern. Yes, your future hall gov anyway. I want to listen to the nonsense. We do on terminally online every week which you should at regular access to a truly great subscription community on discord, which is just like six public slack channel or train all kinds of social media apps these to you and it is. It is twitter pre line four friends of the pot, that's what That's what I told me in the marketing department. I now join friends of the plot, a crooked dot com, slash friends. I let's get to the news this courts right wing majority celebrated america's birthday with a trio of us

two, three rulings that band affirmative action in higher education. A business to deny wedding services to algae boutique. You couples and struck down president binds plant, forgive ten thousand dollars worth of student debt for people earning less than a hundred twenty five thousand dollars a year in twenty thousand dollars worth of debt for low income, families, relief that nearly twice he six million borrowers have already applied for chief justice roberts invoked the so called major questions doctrine which was just made up by this court. And basically says that the president can't take executive actions regarding Major political and economic questions that aren't explicitly spelled out by congress in the legislation is passed. The bind administration was clearly prepared for this outcome, which is why the president made this amount meant shortly after the rule. I believe, of course, decision to strike down my soon debt relief programme was a mistake. Was wrong.

Macro. Stop fighting deliver bombers, what they need! mounted today a new path, consistent with today's ruin to provide student every need to his men. bar is possible as quickly as possible. We will go This new approach in a different law did my original plan. Oh called higher education that because I will allow sector cardona was with me today to compromise, wave or released loans under certain circumstances, this path, legally sound. It's take longer. In my view, is the best path remains to providing for many bars possible. Second, We know what many borrowers will need to make your hard choices which their voice, their budgets, are being trained. When they start to repay their monthly payments this war? That's why we're created it every twelve month, while working on ramp repayment programme. Mostly What will we do? Bills?

loud and interests will be accruing endured. This period. If you can pay you monthly bills, you sure You cannot have you miss payments this on ramp. temporarily remove the threatened to fall or haven't you credit harm which can hurt powers for years to come so. It seems to me that the challenge, ah with this new plan, ah, is that it's going to run up against the same supreme court. But, ah, what do you think, which you're a strict scrutiny legal degree Well, like any aspiring lawyer, I've been in the stacks today. I've been on lexus nexus, this region. We like this next, so there is a call to think that still exists. I don't know either been asking channel. I'm wondering what percentage of our audience knows. What like this makes us. I see model fires, forty, I have no idea. In other words, I was into all the back episodes and strict scrutiny that came out at the end of last week if well, how weekend based on what little I now and I really want emphasised.

When it has been like their arms. people who believe that the higher education act would be a slightly stronger ground on which to offer one forgiveness, there is a provision in the higher education act that has been used for loan forgiveness before it's the foundation for the public service, one forgiveness programmed which allows people who do public services to get some of their debt. Forgive, and it's also used in a when the by demonstration settled class action lawsuit involving from people who thought who had been misled by for profit universities. So there's precedent, thereby you point out. The major questions. Doctrine is incredibly vague unintentionally, vague weapon to be used to strike down. They second of actions of democratic president. So it's very likely. You would end up right back where you are because they can do the exact same thing all over again. Yeah, I mean the high, as you heard Biden say there be m. Higher education act gives the sector of education the authority to quote com.

as waive or release any right title claim: leaner demand, roberts in the Student loan decision that they just handed down said wave or modify could not be interpreted as giving the secretary the power to cancel debt at a massive scale, so not sure exactly what the differences Whitehouse aids, though, as you mentioned, have pointed out that on that you know, binds taken other executive actions around student loans that have not been challenged and court like increasing pell grants and reducing monthly payments. So you know, even though this one was challenged successfully in court, they point out that other student loans action executive action

The president had not been challenge in court. So that's, I think, that's what they're hoping for here. It will take a long time. It'll take maybe a year, because the department education has to undertake a rule making process around this. That involves policy negotiations and a public comment period, though some economists have argued that demonstration should skip the rule, making process and see what the court does it. We all. The court will do for some folks on the on the left, directed their very understandable frustration with the decision towards president Biden and democrats in congress. Can you think of anything they could have done differently to achieve a better outcome here. I cannot, but I dunno, if I'm missing any I know that you are had congress passed a law forgiving student loans dead. The court cannot have used a major questions doctrine to strike down there. One giant flaw in that argument, which is it

the two years in which democratic control the white house house in the senate, the filibuster was in place which would allow ten republicans too easily block any attempted to forgive student, There was not a majority of democrats to eliminate the filibuster and there was not a majority of democratic supporting broad based student loans, debt forgiveness, theirs. thing in the past that I can see there is no different way in which the by demonstration could have written the rule there. a strategy that I can see whether they could have passed a law that would have been immune from this specific court challenge. This the reality we have of the congress we had with this court, and I dont think I understand what he bore angry, that anger should be directed at republicans at the court and chain old into trying to regained the house and expand our senate majority so that we can really eliminated filibuster, ensure that we have fifty Senate Democrats who are willing to superbly

willing to support forgiving student at you. I realize we sound like a broken and have been for the past several years about the filibuster and it's not exactly like eight a new and exciting explanation for things, and it is frustrating. But again it's that's that's. we're at height like unless we have fifty senators us kamel, Harris's the typewriter who are willing to get rid of the filibuster. We can't do anything and joy I yelling about whatever and other democratic, but whatever are not going to change Jimmy, in mind on this or given cinemas, mind on this and that's been pretty clear. Since you know Joe Biden became present since long before jha barton become present. like they they there are. They are immune to pressure on this issue. So that's that's. What we have to do is focused on, like you said, electing a senate majority. That dialogue is willing to give it to the filibuster for a host of reasons

there's, also been a lot of pressure on binding democrats to support more aggressive judicial reforms, particularly around expanding the court. Here's what the president had to say about that during interview on friday with MSNBC Nicole wallace. Do you worry that without court reform, this concern when a majority is too young and too conservative that they might do too much harm or Due to my charm harm, I think if we start the process of trying to expand the court. We're gonna politicizing, maybe forever in a way that is not healthy. So by nelson, together a by partisan commission on court or form a few years ago that issued fairly

moderate recommendations around transparency and ethics. They did not suggest expanding the corbett. They did suggest some ethics reform code of conduct, but we heard from white ass communications director bend the bolt on last week's episode. That Biden has not yet endorse any specific ethics. forms either? What do you think's going on there? Let's take he's in reverse order, let's start with average for great moral sitting to ban give that answer. I had two thoughts First, is Joe Biden. Is naturally more reticent on sort of aggressive political reforms. Then you- and I are probably a lot of people who was inspired. Cast our he was to come along, long time on the filibuster. He was the enemies in the senate for decades who is the church? our committee has real concern. That I want the necessarily agree with, but about deal jeopardizing the court and so that may be one reason? Why says, and I think the and other something. That's why he's hesitant or oppose

on bigger issues like expansion and term limits on ethics reform. I have a suspicion that The white house did not want to come out with a position on ethics reform, while the court does rightwing court was me decisions on these huge cases that matter a lot about the one about Discrimination is actually taking community the one student loans and the one about the independence. It legislature theory. I remember your number this that when this What was making decision on obamacare in obama's first term? It was Judging entity. Kennedy was the deciding vote and obama because he likes, funny was on the stump in interviews, making a joke about how he would within a lawn and offered to do as laundry. One day the white house council came down and told us that they had heard from people who know Kennedy, but Kennedy probably doesn't like that joke solutions. Making it while we're we're healthier for millions of people is at stake and we

ITALY shut up. So I can definitely see the white house calling to apologize and to apologize. Obama did send him a giant fruit basket which does not lie. We first that you read inedible arrangement, yet that's correct, and so I can definitely see whatever PA. the processes and in place could to make a decision about this ethics reform. That is there It would definitely take place after the supreme court term was over So what will see what happens? I think that maybe what's happening there. Also, maybe they wanted to save it for the heat of the campaign net It, and also in also the senate, is now starting process where they're coming up with ethics reform legislation, so I'm guessing that The white house might want to let that play out for a little bit of and help shape it as well, so that they can be on the same pages and democrats in whatever they propose, or you know, there's an off that it could be by partisan as well, because you happy blake unit, Susan collins and mercosur. It might be interested in the ethics or form side of it as well. So on that

I think it is definitely a wait and see a me adding justices to the court. You write like I don't it's Biden right again. it took them a long time in the filibuster. The flip side of that is. He did change his mind on the filibuster and I think this white house has shown that they do care about public opinion that their minds can be changed. The drip president Biden's mind can be changed on issues like the filibuster. The guy is a a creature of the senate for decades and an institutional us and of course he was going to support the filibuster for a long time and the fact that you know it's at this age as president he changed his mind is, I think, a good sign and it tells you to keep up the pressure for that, but I will also say: if Biden came out, tomorrow in favour of adding justices to the supreme court. Do you see would change the political dynamic and anyway, not in the short term I can automatically get justice,

doesn't say it, and then we all the sun. We had two new justices: that's not how that happens at risk. if you sell people the rich will the way it happens is there is a law that has to be passed by congress, which again could be blocked by filibuster. So again, we do not have the votes Even if every Senate Democrat was on board with adding justices to the court which they are not, we would not be able to pass legislation adding justices the court, while the filibuster is in place, We don't have a house. He went around the house about that forgot about the furrier, but the fact we don't have the idea. Now. I still I think I understand politically. It will talk about the point. Second, why Joe biden- I think you sincerely does not believe in the idea I were. I do not think this. Is he like secretly is a big court expansionist and just keeping back because the posters are about to do it? I don't think that's the case just because it's not gonna happen now. Is that an argument for not supporting aggressive? policies are going, are gonna take time you want to build support for it. You gotta come out for, and so there

Nothing, nothing is going to happen in the short term. I wish I was for expansion because I don't like it actions can happen in his first term. Certainly maybe I'm Second term too. If we actually want to solve this problem and I believe, pass real court reform is going to require prominent democratic support. But that's not where Joe Biden has now. As you say, if you were to change its mind tomorrow is academic expand the court we're suburbs to have the power to do it, and it's not going. I forgive any one student debt like simply saying it does not change where we are in the shorter and the long term. It can have an impact yeah. I saw a quote from Brian Fallon who works with demand justice, which is the support court reform and expanding the court and- and he acknowledged interview that you know Joe Biden is probably the last domino to fall among democrats on this issue. Now no, if he came to morrow and support reform, you might get a few senate Democrats who were

already supportive of court reform privately to come out publicly and start building momentum. So yet I think that can help, but there is also possible that you build support by you, know, sir, to ask Senate Democrats how they feel about it, starting to ask people who are running for the senate. Like you know, reuben guy ago stranger, you know run against kirsten cinema and whoever the Republican is in arizona and- and you know so, people like you start. You start building support that way and I do think that's that's good to do, but I dont that Joe Biden coming overcoat reformed, euro or had he come out for court reform a year ago, two years ago, would have led to a different outcome What do we know about how voters feel about court reform when we In short, we are about three things: a code of conduct and a process for accountability for the supreme court

term limits of some shape or form an expansion. The first two are quite popular there's a pull. Those connected by an citizens united, which is a pro court reform group, found the two thirds of voters, including slovenia, majority of independence support a code of conduct for the spring court. That seems pretty obvious sickly, given it has been happening with the lido and thomas everyone us term limits while constitutionally and legally complicated is also quite popular. You see, we seem calls it show, nor that sixty percent of voters supporting that which makes complete Some probably beat in fact be the most important if you, if you could get it to be constitutional acceptable, which is top because the supreme court is the one who would make that choice. would be a complete game changer, both in terms of the balance of the court then he would mean that the each and everyone is appointments would not be at this cataclysmic, apocalyptic battle where you have to find the youngest like

person, possibly youngest healthiest person possible to conserve the longest, it would at least be better across the board for the court. Expansion is much less popular, is in in the polls they're dead. How you were the question matters a lot, but in general it is sub fits far below fifty percent. Right now support for it when you package them altogether. I've seen it do better, but expansion is by far the least popular part. Only sixty percent of Democrats supported in a bunch of poles now,

You can invite him to the bind point of binary to come out for it. That number would go up not to one hundred as a percent of Democrats, but would go up, but it would not get it to majority support its country. Independents, republicans, obviously don't like it. Independents are particularly skeptical of it thus far, but also no one is making the the case for it either. I think that the polls I've seen expansion has become more popular over the last several years, particularly since dobbs you're. Right, though it's still under fifty a data for progress had a poll in April of two thousand twenty three that the latest poll that I've seen on this and forty seven per cent support expansion. Forty two percent oppose This would be expanding the court to thirteen justices, which is legislation that some Democrats have introduced in your right. It's it's underwater with independence, forty to forty six and then republicans its twenty eight. Sixty two, no surprise there.

So it's get more popular where you're right it has not. It's not majority support, yet its plurality in some poland samples and its different. You write that the ethics reform is by far the most popular. I also would argue that it will be the least effective of the options and also a different problem. So the different problems. I think it's an a it's a connected problem, but no, I think that if you had a very stringent code of con and I really significant ethics reforms- you still have a bunch of ideological zealots on the court. Even if they weren't flying on private planes, with her one crow end Getting their mom's house paid for, like clarence thomas would still make horrible decisions just because they like to make horrible decisions based on their right wing ideology, but I think it's still important. We should still do it. I do think term limits is probably the

the one that is both popular and would be effective. That Democrats should feel more confident running on including Joe Biden, because I that you write like you, you actually start limiting that the amount of time the justice who sit on the bench, then that's gonna, have a real effect and it is quite popular. and then I think you and then in the meantime, you try to get a court reform and expansion more popular by actually advocating for it. So that's what I would do. Alright, let's talk about the ah knuckleheads trying to replace Joe Biden, most of the republican candidate, spent the weakened on the trail at tat fourth of July I parades and barbecues donald trump The rally in south carolina where he was introduced by lindsey gram, who was loudly and repeatedly booed throughout the events, that's fun mike pence marched in it, I am a parade where the crowd started. Chanting tramp, tramp tramp, which I guess is an improvement over hang my pants.

You know you take the winds. Worrying, get em and run to Santa campaign released, a video to mark the end of pride month, the begins by it acting donald trump for pledging to protect algae. Be you americans, during his twenty sixteen convention speech, then shows that syria Of headlines that say, descent assigned the most quote extreme. entire trans law ever and is quote evil all while flashing sure of shirt was dunes and patrick bateman. The serial killer from american psycho the video managed to be both homophobic and homo erotic. Was widely condemned by democrats and republicans, including some dissent, is curious pundits, but the best response was from transportation secretary people to judge their reaction to that area No, I'm not choose my words carefully, partly cause I'm appearing secretary, so I can't talk about campaigns

and I'm gonna leave aside the strangeness of trying to prove your manhood by putting up a video that places images of view in between oiled up shitless body builders and just get to the vigorous that is on my mind. Whenever I see this stuff in the policy space, which is again who are you trying to help? Who are you trying to make better off and what public policy pro What do you get up in the morning? Thinking about how to solve so first question. Obviously, there is a constituency for homophobia in the republican party But do you really think, there's a bunch of republican voters who will vote verandah santas because they ve somehow been persuaded that he's a bigger homophobia than donald trump now and I have come to the conclusion now that Rhonda Santa's is campaign. Team was in a coma from the period of twenty fifteen to twenty seventeen when donor troubles running for election for them

because they are running the exact same asked backward doomed to fail stupid strategy that these other candidates ran between. Sixteen member all the adds with footage of donald trump saying he was protrudes or a wedding Clinton's are playing golf with couldn't report. Can voters understand. Donald trump is full of shit. They dont care there. they're, not in it for the sincerity there in it for the strength and or not is is not gonna work it has never worked in. The past is not going to work now. They you're not going its people that Donald trump us insufficiently mega you. And convenient? I got if, as we hope, that he is in effective at the neck, agenda, but you're not what year was run around thing and donald trump as a true as an honest, sincere human being, if you're only were to show this footage, the show that he is not is bigoted. Homer think as a species would suggest they're all going to sun going to leave him it's just. There is no evidence for that to work and is particularly stupid. Like much of what Ronda sentence campaign. Does I mean

taken about the way he campaigned in twenty fifty in point. Sixteen, but beyond that voters just live through republican voters just lived through four years of his presidency and judging by his approval ratings among those same republican voters and even Angelica voters. They don't think he got and in a way that was too supportive of l, gb dickie rights or if they do, they don't care right like they just got for you. of it in their like all in so now, instead of hitting a wall instead hitting him for life. He did or didn't do during his presidency, you're gonna go back before the presidency. when he was running, miss universe, pageants and an end complaining that he lets. You know our train gender americans compete in the blue beauty pageant or that he said the Caitlin jaded care where Caitlin Jenner went the bathroom, which was viewed. Those two bits were also in their dissent. As video I mean it is so nuts and so stupid, and it wasn't.

I had to check by the way, because I think in the outlying you said it was from the never back down pack neuro, no, the video. made by someone else. They posted another great posted it, but they also both But to say this is campaign posted at not not the pack. The campaign also posted it. Like this and then and then run to say This was asked in an interview about the video and he defended it. He said identifying donald trump as really being a pioneer in injecting gender ideology into the mainstream where, was having men compete against women. I think that's totally fair game, it so stupid, it's so stupid. So I guess that's brings us to the second question. Why is run dissenters? His camp so fucking weird, because the fish rights from the head, John.

No campaign in history has needed to go touch grass more than rhonda sentences campaign. They are then most online campaign. I think I have ever seen like you have to have a fucking degree in fortune to understand what going out of that video, the music. The image is like you know, you see, people have like dissect, it who know this stuff, but it is wild, but they would put up man. That's usually it all comes back to the fact that Rhonda santas announced campaign in a twitter spaces, conversation moderate by elon musk and the former hr directorate paypal. I also think, by the way that the way the trump is handling these, Issues is with like a bit of a wink in a nod to

how ridiculous and concocted these culture were. Issues are so like. We didn't talk about this, but there is a couple weeks ago. He had an event where he did his like I'll keep men out of women. Sports are cut federal funding for any school pushing transgender insanity was his quotes. The crap wild and then, after the crew, those wild trump stops and he says it's amazing how strong people feel about that. I talk about cutting taxes and you all go like this in any did like a because I talk about transgender. Everyone goes crazy five years ago. You even know what the hell it was hunches, just a completely true statement from donald trump, and a very sharp bit of political analysis in an honest a political analysis winks, any not the people who want to see the weaken the nod and the other people know that, even though is making a knotty, he still gonna do what they want. Yet is that's right,

nine thing. An abortion trump is a vibe for these people so. Dissenters is attacking trump for supposedly being too far left on issues like gay rights. An abortion trump is attacking to santa's for being too far right on issues like wanting to privatized and cut current social security. How much does it worry you that this may make trump seem more moderate and thus electable to a general electorate? Ah, if he's the nominee, I don't want to overstate the case because in times of high polarization like the one we live in. very little change people's opinions and that's particular to have tromp, whose approval rating other than a couple of moments stayed basically the same for eight years is a narrow band, whether he is getting indicted getting impeach committing crimes talking about nazis about us it so there Olaf is moving people by the prison Your lecture is much larger majority. You're gonna have a lot of people in their issue.

eggs your attention is primary. There's gonna, like surfing the news. There seem the headlines in the region is it some of them watching this coverage will get the impression from how right? exactly how Rhonda Santos is running his campaign, that donald is more economic, populist than the rest of his party and slightly more moderate on some cultural issues than the furthest extremes of his party, and that could be decisive on the margins in as we know this presidential action as I could decide on the margins, I have been trying to explain how close is going to be as that anything like sixteen and twenty. The elect will be assisted by fewer people than attended. The most recent tell us what cancer right that they did so does take a lot of people to get that impression to do this. I know people who were like lifelong democrats are going to all of he's their mind or republicans ownership? Its third People who voted for twelve and sixteen binding twenty and might also be available to tromp again on twenty four and those us or people? If we get that impact,

right people who voted peep, maybe but a trump in twenty, but then vote a Democrat for congress and Wait you what they thought. He has other republicans for such mega lunatic extremists that they might trump is slightly different if he is out there protecting social security medicare and getting hammered by a bunch of his opponent. for being not insufficiently extreme on abortion and as with equal rights. said the challenges. A lot of voters go on vibes, especially when it comes to trump, especially low information voters who are not paying close attention to politics. We have trumps record for the last week and when he was president for four years, he put out budgets that would have decimated of security in medicare, be put the justice system court that have given us all of these rulings. Are that are horrible on abortion and gay rights, so you know, I do think that it's probably smart of democrats to start reminding people of that to kind of counter what the santas is doing here, but

You could see dissenters runner if designed this campaign actually picks up It is still around in the form of the winter. Open question open question right and it becomes like run decision. Its culture warrior, who also have little paul ryan and I'm too ensues witches electorally, the worst possible fuckin position to be in, but if it's him vs donald trump, then yeah it could have, and if you could see it have an effect on people's perceptions of trump and in the general, and it would be the wrong perception, but that's something the Democrats should think about. Now there was a sense in twenty twenty among some people that, because Donald trump he doesn't get a church They a thrice divorced new your city playboy that he has not really it event, lay through a natural culture, warrior like a buyer like a bunch of the republicans and that helped and now people were many. People were quite so.

Eyes we turned out to govern like that, but that you can get element of that dynamic could happen again in twenty four If you're on a status for running a terrible campaign that their actual, is it like an awful their awful one more thing we should mention about, the republican primary the are has demanded. That we candidate sign a loyalty pledge where they have to promise to supply. The eventual nominee, or else they dont, get to participate in the debates most of the candidates, including trump, have not signed it so what happens if they don't well, as you know that ronna mcdaniel, a woman of such ed, fast principles that she wished she read gave up using her given name in order come here and see tat. I will promise to take fight this to the end. Now I assume there just gonna quit. at least somehow abandoned it and do whatever short wants to do trouble, either side and say he's going to lie and everyone's got to do the same thing or he's not going to sign it or they're, not gonna hold the made without trump, so there if their yeah. I don't think it's I think there. Whatever it takes to get drunk on that stage, the rnc will do.

and I dont know that the loyalty pledge or even getting rid of the loyalty pledge, we'll get trumpet changes. Yeah, there's there's you think I first couple debates, no matter what the other question will be on the first debate that he may be may feel compelled to do, for whatever reason went whence it gonna matter there. I really wonder if he skipped the first two if he ever shows up. I know that, like you know cause because he made a somewhat compelling case on his during a scene in town. How about this that, like down from you go. Won't let him skip all the debates, but I don't know like if it turns out if it turns out that all these jokers are still like thirty points behind em. Why the fuck would you participate in these debates and just like risk? getting your asked its christmases, we thought the same thing around the presidential base and twenty twenty as donald trump needs the attention and ultimate way. That's what I think will matter, but I will say: yeah, I think the general

as a little differently africa for sure, but but but I could see it will say. Ok when we come back, I talked to representative andrea cause, cortez quarters, big news, you can now isn't a pod save america ad free by joining cricket subscription friends of the past that's right. You're, add fast! Fourteen days can now be over. You ve toiled long enough. It's time to rest, you also access to our new exclusive to subscription bonus content, feed featuring the elusive show on cricket terminally online, looser than the two old men getting to a fart ward and rfk junior press dinner. One of the best stories we've covered on the show period and, let's not forget the friends of the pod discord community, a place to connect with fellow cricket listeners and rant about the news without having to fight a blue checkmark twitter gun. You can also chat directly with John Tommy and me about your favorite show and why it's love it or leave it and more. We should also mention that subscribing at the best friends two years is super easy way to put your dollars towards helping save democracy with ten dollars of your

description going directly to votes of america's grassroots organizing efforts in all fifty states, plus DC, sign up to friends of the pod today by heading to cricket, dot, com, slash friends, and we will see you on discord show, sponsored by better help talk about a time when he felt on about where you're going and life or what the right path was every day every day, every day, sometimes faced with tough choices and the path for it isn't always clear whether you're dealing with decision round career relationships or anything else therapy helps you stay connected to you really want. While you navigate life sea can move forward with confidence and excitement. Trusting self to make decisions that alone with your values like anything, the more you practice it the easier it gets. If you think, in a start, in therapy give birth but try its entirely on minds that be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief question here to get match with a licence therapists and switch therapists any time for no additional charge therapies great. We are the therapy boys, which means that we go to therapy and know the better

It's witches, I feel better and it's nice to have someone to uh. You know talk about all the bullshit in your life with find more balance, with better help, as it better help dot com. Slash p s a today to get ten percent off your first month. That's better help, h e l, p, dot, com, slash p s a. The joining us today to talk about the supreme court and much more representative, alexandria, ocasio, cortez congresswoman, welcome back to the pod. Me. So I want to get into a broader discussion about the court, but first on student loans, I would love. nothing more than for the president's new debt relief plant succeeds MIKE or it will end up at the same supreme court. You ve heard the press. to also consider shortening the I'm frame on when it goes into effect and suspending interest on. only especially over the next year have you from anyone in the administration on those suggestions, I think I'm in we ve been arson.

I have been in contact with the white house. I think we are continuing to Vicky. You see. I anticipate that there's gonna be more discussions and movement arrests convenes session next week. I'm sorry, I think right now, there's kind of like a little bit of a low period as the administration first starts. To pick up it's already committed to doing, and then I think we can now followed with conversations potentially ethnic improvements. It seems a good brain or idea to me d. I'm. I know that the time frame like there's all kinds of rules, around figuring out a process with permanent education and there's the public comments. now that on suspending interest, it seems like no brainer like. What would the argument against that be? You know I really judge, huge argument against it. You know, I think it's just the political backlash about

You know there has been miss handshake agreement with the debt limit deal about me. No ending the suspension ending the payments is action in september. I dont know if people when we say oh, you know this is kind of breaking your again. I I don't really think so. I think suspended. Interest is totally fair game and remember. We are proceeding with an alternative plan here, which me there are millions of people out there. That would potentially be paying interest on loans that are a long balances that are going to get forget in. If all goes according to plan- so I really do believe that suspending interest is on the move to make great now, especially if people are too You now get up and made it a lot of you don't even know who their civil servants there's our anymore, because the world there were a lot of consolidation during the pandemic on what to do, but the court. I see a two track approach here

If there can be hearings and investigations into ethics and potentially legal violations, and hopefully some kind of ethics legislation, and then there are broad structural reforms like court, expansion and term limits that can help rebalance the extreme right turn. The court has taken in terms of the ethics investigations who makes the decision, and on whether Senate Democrats issue subpoenas, which has only been tried under justice once in the past, durban? Is it Schumer? Is it like a majority on the judiciary? What's the process there, I mean It's a combination of both leader shimmer. Of course, democratic party in any chambers are need leadership. Who would be part of that conversation but, of course it would go to jail. The judiciary is something to get here a committee. I would have enormous sway over that decision, but a lot of that conversation. Those tend to be a cock as right decision. No, we don't with a lot of subpoenas during impeachment sitting on house oversight.

We took issuing of subpoenas very very seriously, and they were often accompanied. Shell and full taken within our role is our conversation as a committee, but You know how much of that at the time, with a lot of that, this is a decision which very heavily on then. I'm are men of oversight, Elijah cummings, as well as discussions with house leadership, and so I would expect that there will be a mere dynamic and is instead that would mean that Durbin would have turned warmest reward. Any input on that as well as other you don't major figures as well. Sheldon white house will be doing is doing an enormous of work are regarding this issue and of course in it. No majority, leader of czech shimmer, so durban said today that they're gonna move forward on ethics legislation. More broadly,

What would your ideal outcome be from a series of ethics investigations and hearings you now? I think ethics legislation is necessary and important, but my concern is that this is quite covering the harm that has already been done to the court. I do not believe that we should leave it to promote alone. God bless him to bring all of this information through. I am What we are seeing is really an unprecedented and frankly out of traffic, amount of regulations on financial and entanglement coming out of the supreme court, and it doesn't leave open a question

I have in addition to what we already know up. There been even other kind of developments out there that we didn't know about that, have potentially swayed or had significant impact on decisions that may have it occurred, and is there a writing of a wrong on that? I think that there. That ultimately, is what this is about is bad. You know as much as these justices, of course, conveniently want to say. Oh this has nothing to do with this. They are surpassed. Neither what members of congress are allowed to do and Congress regulates itself, and country and people have seen what number the I'm away from gotten away with briskly and in what the supreme court has done with certain numbers. Look for and have done, has even put that to shame. So I really do believe that what we need,

It's not just ethics reform, which is very necessary and we do need a thorough accounting and investigation of what the word as Frank we ve been all day. We cannot allow. Lack of disclosure just like a convenience? Now people like, whereas tormentor samuel, Alito, conveniently meeting lavish, gives and big hasten, I'm billion errors interests before the court. And just say: oh, you know that does a mall again. You know that I think is profound disturbing, and these are the kinds of conflicts of interest than even the most basic low level entry level. Judges would know that this is a no no even basic government employees,

are not allowed to receive if kind of an favoring, and that needs to be taken seriously, and I do think that there needs to be an account and on on what, as fully heard ana encore form youth supported. Expanding the supreme court binds not there yet. If he came out for expansion tomorrow, we still have a a senate majority that can't eliminate the filibuster or that won't in the case of Joe Manchin and kirsten cinema. What do you see? the best strategy for achieving some kind of structural court reform, I mean I I do think that it can come in with oversight and investigation. If we do not have court expansion, if we do not understand it that is capable of moving from a bust, her I think, there's a couple of things that we need to do. We need to engage in a chair on the supreme court's power, which move. I think that we need to bring

judicial review into question, which basically is saying what the supreme court is allowed to touch on what they are and the extent of their power and the extent of what there was a born capable overturning are not all that falls under a cat and already known as judicial review, and when the poor begins to expand it. Use its power are beyond what it has got is then expanding their traditional view, as we saw even with the london cages and dissent she's saying yes or no, How is coming from inside the house in her the she thing, this court is getting out of control

they are assuming the power of a legislature. This is, we are going far beyond our jurisdiction and an earth being members of the court than sounds really lead to death, and so I believe that our system of checks and balances it is up to them. It is up to congress and also up to the president to begin pushing back on the scope, the supreme court's judicial review, and they are calling into question log back and rights that have been established for, five years in this country in their overturning jobs in there you know in in there turning basic protection of quality protection for our gdp to americans, uneven Their supreme court decision around junot allows and then just basically thing the president of the authority to do something. This big are, we won't say

bag, and there really in an enormous amount of power into them. how's, that frankly, they don't have. The constitution does not give them, and so you know. I do believe that really opening in on the porch judicial review in the scope of that is important and again. I do believe that what friend I mean some folks may disagree with me, but I believe that the supreme court is only politicize. I think this is a group of political actors and they respond to political pressure, and maybe that's not the I'm. The sky way we'd like to think of our core. Maybe that's not what the court is supposed to be, but ass, the court that were working, but today I am, and I think that proper oversight. I do believe that investigations in subpoenas touched me want. Britain behaviour we have is the brink were adjusted refused

which myself and the case in which his wife was directly implicated, that was clarence tunnels and his wife's involvement on january sixth, and not only that, but he was the only judge and if not want to be old to to vote, allowing full disclosure of materials and with respect to patents, You know, I do believe that investigations subpoenas if she'd justice robards, will not complying with the senate investigations as he is not yet ready. Before congress around this issue and the supreme court does not have that luxury, They are not above investigation there, you human and they are just as susceptible to corruption.

as any other government entity, and we handles the billowy? I condemn the strongest oversight for them because, at least with the legislature, the presidency we have elections and the people can always. I hold us accountable by not only for us again, and that is one of many layers of the supreme court. Is our life at hand of witness at least they are for now, and that means that be responsibility for oversight on them. Is that much greater when you tumblr judicial review is their lead. solution that you envision congress potentially passing around judicial review that actually scopes. What kind of cases are decisions the supreme court can make and is their historical precedent for that. I do think that there is an judicial review and the history just review has finally been death. I guess figures day it's it's been

it's been like an amalgam of different factors back in shape, what judicial review and does, some of it again. It has to do with a little pressure. When we go back, a hundred years when, at the are starting threatening an expansion of the court back then it was I didn't ranch, drawing a line in the sand and seeing new or going too far and in the past, There have been moments eaten, for example, with Abraham lincoln in the case of dred scott and the supreme court. all the way than again unable him, and you know, I'm lincoln, disregarded the outcome undreamt sky when he finding information proclamation, and they said there are certain things that are seen areas and am against the decision for black americans and one really and fleet was one of those inalienable rights and

you know. I know it is a third rail in politics to discuss this, but frankly This is where we are as a country, and it is sad and scary, but you know the idea having a panel, an unelected individuals who demonstrated financial entangled, I am and whose reasoning is increasingly straying from precedent. There has to be a line and we have to ask ourselves and prepare ourselves. We are seeing the supreme court, they strict right, basic, inalienable right, inalienable rights from women and- and

and binary people last year with the overturning of jobs? They are now stripping certain inalienable rights from lgbtq america, and we have to ask ourselves what if they can do this, what is what what can't they do? What is the line in terms of that pushback, and so you know I think, and when it comes to legislation as bad as of it, there's a and showed them the possibility there that you could be challenged and were I'm, but it can also be done through other ways as well and ends. You know. I know that that makes folks uncomfortable, but there is a history and a precedent for this in american history in general. How do you think President Biden has handled his job over the last four years? You know, I think

I think he's done quite well. I, given the limitations that we have- and I do think that there are adds a blow as there are in any present in any presidency, there are areas that I think are quite strong when he came right out of the gate, emerge rescue plan and ends there and a court, the emission reduction was a massive step in terms of our common agenda, You know there are also areas that I think would have gotten better residents and I think, democratic party in general continue to struggle with immigration. Are we don't want it on this issue and me I can big game while we're in the minority who are trying to win an election, but I don't feel like we are there when it comes to what we actually pass. Ensuring that was is now over one years old and is still not pass

and a lot of you know, there's plenty of other issues as well, even with and what is happening with the you know the ability to get grant people basic work authorization so that they can work, and while they are going through their legal profit thing. There is enormous amount of political resistance to that, And- and we want to make sure that we are expanding, that I am working for the coalition that Alex with party I'm. So you know I I do Of course, there is so much more that we could do so. Much more than he should do, and we have major structural issues in this country and had start. I think it starts with the united states, senate and and I think tat until we had senators that are willing to stand up, extend the filibustering, my stare

A lot of structural issues about the senate in the I e, the united states, and it will be what folds back this country from an enormous amount of and I think that we need to have a real conversation about that, not just in the structure, but also in the culture and the culture of the united states Senate is. There is so much deference to this kind of like polite society, but often times that runs up against some people's basic rights and we need to have that conversation so President's. Only primary opponents are marian williamson Robert Kennedy junior, been any rumours about anyone else, even thinking about jumping in you be supporting Joe Biden for reelection

It did not feel. Yes, we make a corner west camp here. You know I think doktor wrapped in a random all history in this country, when he fights for what he gives way to is incredibly important. And the ability for us to talk about issues that frankly, mainstream democrats are often too afraid to touch when we, about american oligopoly. When we talk about foreign policy, we talk about an you know: the united states oftentimes. Our foreign policy is complicit nature and human rights abuses. And the palestine in africa or another areas of the global south. These are very important things for us to talk about and which have universal healthcare in the united states and in we talking about medicare for all, there are very real powers and forces that

and a democratic bernie, from really advancing in these issues, and I think that it's very healthy for us to have congress have those kinds of conversations and to kind of zoom out into an overall critique of our political system, and that, doesn't you know, that isn't obliged in this logic of american exceptionalism I'm. So I think you know I I appreciate well, there are people who raise those voices and common history about how much do third party candidacies weather. Doktor west's or no labels, or anyone like that. How much of that concern you for the general election You know, I think not. All third party ended his fever greedily, but you know there are some third party candidate, feel guy

that really exists to send a message and to really island disguised, but these issues in real time, and I think that this there is doubt you too I've having these conversations. But you know When you look at, for example, what no labels is doing with beat beat. That is something to be concerned about, because of the sheer amount of money and bad feed actors than bob and again, it's not just the faint, no label, but we have would be very concerned, because the risk of fascism in this country is here it is real and we cannot risk it, especially in critical electoral college states that are divided by tens of thousands of boats. We need to be very, very careful I believe about that, and this is you know. The united states has

in article system, whether we like that or not. We have to live with that reality and and the rest just a fascist erosion, and that is really why there and it it's real, and I think every single one of us, no matter where you are on the political spectrum, whether you consider yourself, moderate or whether you consider yourself, as you know, far left as can be, we have to contend with the green, real material risk of people. As you pointed out, you know it's not just about real Joe Biden, it's about or of expanding the senate majority, or at least having sent a majority willing to eliminate the filibuster and also, of course, get up take back the house. What is in the best case is for the demo.

a party to make to voters for twenty twenty four. Why think the best cases are actions and that's why? I think it's so important that that Joe Biden and his administration go full steam ahead, for example, on student loan relief. I think some of his critics am, I dare say you know, they're just dropped the south is old, twelvemonth process will to after an election, as has just been a goal. They have. No intention of being this through, I think, is very important that the administration to prove those critics wrong and that's why I think it's really important to accelerate that time. Why I'm cutting insurance is a material, is immaterial benefit that people can experience while we figure out how higher higher education path to lump together, and so I think it I think,

Material changes are in the best case that we can make where we can say, look at what we ve done. We brought in wind down, he tapped the price of insulin to thirty five dollars. We have and you know, invested and created nine million dignified shipping jobs to work on climate would be equation, reduction alone out, you know during covered. We did have that child tax credit that we were able to implement, as if me get those seeds back, then we can see if we can extend it to make a point

bring it back again. I'm me talking in the language what everyday people actually thought. You know that child tat spread it. People felt that insulin, cats, people feel that not having to pay rent in a student loans pain that people really feel back and that, I think, is our best is. I do think that yeah and- and I think that that is the case at present in committee, but I also think that there are some senate Democrats should reflect on some of their position from things, and he you know, are they willing to be more vocal on these issues? Are they willing to fight more of these issues out so that we can actually get some of this stuff time? Because what I don't want to happen is for people to say, oh, you know the bad administration or certain you or the senate

the house or whatever promised all of these things just to get elected, and then they dont, deliberate and setting its importance were my folks and the material changes that were made are also and really discuss about reality and what people are seeing during breathing and pain. More expense results I'm german and I'm driving. It then get a lightning rod. We got a lightning round for love. It hi hi hi good, to see how you doing alright. Alright scientists and the questions that matter least, are you ready, yeah, alright Barbie oppenheimer barbie, but I wouldn't mind doing a double bill or whatever later, I think that's right, because barbie's gonna be really fun, but oppenheimer is going to make us. Question, what it means to be a person and incredible chaos and evil. We each have within our hand in that that's worth something to as an actual too

Where's open one is a billionaire sobbed, the titanic, the others a billion years rocket to mars. You must go in one which one are you getting in. the home, maybe mars, that's right! That's right! You know for me one You know, Are you play any video games right now at all I'm playing down ground? things elder and I left my switch in these needs, so I didn't mean on her fingers Are you aware of how addictive diablo forests and is there anything that you can do legislatively? I heard about that. So I haven't had any point in. going you're not even have a job what does that have to stop you from doing yeah? I have to stay focused: okay, okay, alright,

someone out. There went on a white house tour visit. They know it is their cocaine there scared their embarrassed, it's just you and that person would you tell the living it's just me and that person I shall, then you can tell me if you want. They don't worry, I'm listening. I there's no shame we meet in beef. Dignified drug use is a public health issue. I don't like, and the war on drugs, okay, okay and wouldn't it be cool if the bite administration actually had coke energy isn't like that deep down what we want light. Let's cancel the debt and be legend, let's meant the coin legends is yeah berkeley. We live

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that is are asked to leave their cell phones before taking a tore. The copies can also be used by staff, who can't bring their phones into a skiff or sensitive compartment. It information facility were classified, materials are handled, I remember those cubbies. I don't remember visitors being required to leave their cell phones there before taking a tour. Am I forgetting, or do you think, that's a new policy that seems to be a new policy? Okay. I dunno if I was just giving all the tours wrong and letting people walk around with phones we used to have to if you were going into a meeting and certain rooms visit white are savages, leave there is in the office, but even in the roosevelt rheumatism, medium for use. For a lot of things, nine white house staff were leaving I found my time I left in a cubby outside there had been a lot, the writer after between when you when I left in the end of the day of our presidency, a lot more. It sort of

anti serbian! What's measures about where you take your phones were like more strictly enforced by, it seems now like any one. Bringing their phone end has to leave it there, which make sense, could they all probably a fuckin tik tok on their phones in there chinese government, just spying, yeah things exotic and there's all in there are a lot of people come through there all the time for now wars meetings. No be like that a delegation of congress or a bunch of union people for miss again or teachers. The people coming through the west wing all the time not just for tourism for meetings and so that suggested there? We may never know who brought their cocaine to the white ass. Well, I mean, I think, those those teachers teaches railways bringing cocaine into the way it has whoever they first it is. They have poor judgment. Well, here's the thing, How did they forgot and on the way out, is the question about a girl? Very

point yeah. Theoretically was next to their cell phone right. maybe they just took a bunch of shit out of their pocket and put in cocaine was part of the stuff in their pocket. They just stuffed it in the cubby. In the I dunno- or they panicked, you know, they're like I've had it yeah. No, I gotta wanted there's like that's what other stock is just an empty your pockets to go through security, so they empty their pockets? Well, maybe they didn't, they didn't probity and take the cocaine. Pockets threaten the purse here, because the secret service would have seen it go through. The metal detector or not the melting, the whatever the ski you put your stuff in a extra machines. so we should thank you. They would have seen a ban summit. It is kept in their pocket thinking that it wouldn't said the skin, I'll get you some mental ragin. The feeling Would have is you've, you've, you're, all you're, all ready for your white house meeting you're, all dressed up, you're excited and you realize you're about to go through the gates that you have cocaine in the look at you you're, not you're gonna. Do that?

No, what you gonna do about it than is, if you realise that, as do the cocaine- what's right, oil and arrested then we will see no, it's what it's like, so the it was on the ground, floor entrance, so that's usually for staff, except at night, when you give tours that's where you start the tour, often and so, and the tours are given by staffers like us at night to people that you know and right, like a ton of people, go through that entrance and they said You know they're gonna, look at surveillance footage, but I dont know that surveillance footage is going. to show like who left what in what cubby, because no one is taken at the cocaine I like waving it in front of the camera and then putting it in the cubby right. So that's going to be it's gonna be hard to look for the surveillance, footage and also there like dna testing and fingerprints stuff, but like people's fingerprints are like all over copies, because all the people or put in their phones in their. So I that's gonna work either. I think there's there it's on the

of cocaine is the fingerprints are looking for right. You ever been yet that person has to fingerprint somewhere else right like a meaningless. It's you know of their if they have a, they have a clean record, but there is one person in america right now who so highly under that not sleeping not living because of the cocaine but also of their word. But they're gonna get caught anyway. I heard that we have a clip that we're supposed to throw to that some kind of a surprise. Here. I'm scared to find out what this is john, five its charm, I look. I've got a little problem and I could really use your help less week. I invited my friend mitch over to the white house to watch season of marvellous, miss measle thousand residues are berries. There is no means that praised her loves gallagher and prompt comedy. So he brings us beatnik baggy with him for a cheap yok, because he's cocaine mitch ha ha. Now I got the cops on my ass. It's a bunch! applesauce man, so here's the deal day and you need to take the floor

You look at your way around the bugger sugar, so these fox news, which says you ll, send some earmarks to delaware. If you do a massage maiden, Shave man, we gotta deal danny boy. That is the closest well I ever get to having Joe Biden on this podcast yeah I mean if people happily making the cocaine mitch jerker hadn't even occurred to me until now. I know I know I know you know. Olivia had thought about it. She was soon as you put it in the prep, but I do of course still do. I'm glad I didn't say it because do you want to ruin that I did. It has one israeli fair record just legally and politically that that is Tommy misusing artificial intelligence up up up up up which he has now done more than anyone else and paul I think it's like that. It has just people do that with the factual, hug and tommy limiting operates, Tommy's the big tommy salvador.

I will say it here: it really nails Joe Biden's voice. The the haha was pretty funny, because the only thing that was a little off his job. and think I'm some comfort, I'm some car florida. I knew that bullshit get in. There is some, as I heard the big it just okay. Now we have damn. I think Elijah is going to join us for this Elijah. Are you there? I am curious. I also don't know how I'm supposed to follow up that clip. It's so funny. It's a bunch of applesauce. so sleepy joe in europe back to takes in a fake. It's our take on the clause again two teachers and why this is going to be a cocaine and the white house addition only one round, just just a little bob here are three republican reactions to the cocaine story. Two of them are real. One of them is fake. Jotted down. Are you ready so ready foreign ready Here's take number one I think

a lot of us have believed that the binding administrations been blowing it on a lot of france, but I guess this is a little bit more literal than even I had thought that is number one number two. has deranged jack smith. The crazy trumpeting special prosecutor been seen in the area of the the he looks like a crack had to me his reaction number two: and here's reaction number three. Well well. Well, it looks like Joe Biden. Crime wave has finally come to his doorstep, and the white house is now less secure than the southern border of guys, honestly, which is the first as a great job? With all three of those, I will identify the fake and identify the people who are the first to the first one. enron, dissenters. The second one is a truth from donald trump and the third one is illogical and vague, or you decided to do all three that a real now on the way

One is a conglomerate, it kind of takes submitted by the subscribers. Thank you to sign up at all africa, dot, com, slash friends, but Other too, I was correct. Our we asked the energy your. I have. I have automatic poets here. If you want them. Oh please, please, please we gotta be the whole drummed truth, because it's it's special, ok I have the wrong dishonest when also, but I mean per usual It just blows the water. here, it is, and I'm going to shout when trump uses all caps. Thank you. Does anyone really believe that the cocaine found in them Swing of the white house very close to the other, office is for the of anyone? Other than a hunter and Joe Biden but watch the fake news media will soon start saying that the amount found was quote. Very small and it was really cocaine, but rather com ground up aspirin in the story will vanish has drain jack smith. The crazy trumpeting special praise.

Peter, been seen in the area of the cocaine. He looks like a crackhead to me. It's. It certainly feels like donald trump has used or at least been aware of the it's just go up asked for an excuse me, we're home thinking really really really for that. Just street detour to go there. There are a lot of ways to go with cocaine being found in Joe Biden's whitehouse, accusing export the being crackhead one a swerve hurts. I rent free it. the swerve. It was a swerve, though an unsurprising one, you know kudos to him. Well, there it is two takes and a fake. We did it blow, we didn't block, we did it blah

Oh I'm, so glad that, because tommy did that thing you- and I will never see those newly installed cell phone companies because we will never be invited to the white house were back again again. It was all tommy fake. I beg you to air sea for joining us today. Sorry that you join. The episode will remain dead about forty cocaine jugs. Everyone have. Fantastic weakened and we'll talk we fiery one pod save america is a crooked media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our producers are in gardener, Bernstein in Bolivia, Martinez, its mixed and edited by andrew chadwick, Joe cancer is our sound engineer, with audio support from kyle segment in charlotte land, thanks to helsinki, for that harrington, hurry, schwartz, anti and injustice. How for production support into our digital team larger cone, Phoebe bradford me account then have coat and David told subscribed apart.

America, on youtube to catch full episodes. Exclusive content in other community events find us at youtube: dot com, slash at pod, save america.