This is exactly why it's time to reboot your credit card with apple card, your card for your money. So you should be able to spend it on the things that you actually want with apple card. You can kiss fees good by their orange and never will be any annual foreign transaction late or over the limit. he's not even hidden ones apply now in the wall, it up on my phone and start using it right away, subject to credit approval later, miss payments will result in additional interest accumulating towards your balance. Variable appears for apple card range from fifteen point: forty, nine percent to twenty six point: forty nine percent based on credit venus rates as of march first, twenty, twenty three gonna stop switching between us with audible you can enjoy podcast

audio books and originals all in one at not sure what you want to listen to. Their robust catalogue has audio books from every genre, best sellers and new releases to celebrity memoirs, mysteries and thrillers motivation wellness business and more. As an honourable member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalogue, including the latest best sellers and new release with audible app. You can listen anytime anywhere on a road trip at the gym, on a walk for doing your chores. You decide, I just log john to audible and there motivational speaker name now, robins, who I really like to listen to and she has a bunch of great books, but she also has a part cast. So I listen fused one episode of her podcast and she was making references to think she said in her book. Nice flip right over and started listening to one of your books, and it was so delightful just to have everything

wait. There are once a lot of new members can try it for free for thirty days, visit, audible, dot, com, slash murder or text murder to five hundred and five hundred. That's annabelle dot com. Such murder protects murder to five hundred five hundred to try audible, free for thirty days, audible, dot, com, slash murder,. the and welcome, in my favor, That's your too hard started caring, bulgaria. You were doing you're here. of conducting gesture. What is really funny to me is there's no sometimes you'll. Do it and then it ends here and then it starts over here for events like you're, just kind of

this sum indicator of like we could start now or weakened now I'll do it like. I still don't know when did like this are better. is this: how its windows seven years, it's not like you're started on your one guy, I'm gonna, looking at you get it off at this moment, could be this moment re years when we both start talking, you ve, never. Now, you'll, never now I'll. Never! Now we can't You can't know, and that's the wait right now. That's the joy of this the moment yeah, are you in this season of your life in a present moment of joy and terror, or you pay handing none when actually you are, you are either way. You should know that you can go to your entire day. Just

dreaming, if you want it's up to you, it's okay, but if you do it on the bus going to get mad, yeah so pick and choose, but a couple people would scream along with you right. I mean it's that kind of we're living in I mean I entirely. I had somebody you. I was gonna, tell story of how I went to the mall today, although there there's no story that that's the whole what have you left there? I mean, I think, huge backing up. They re pretty big bird on the way you know in a way they have. I don't I'm sure they have these everywhere now but to get. The freeway there's little stoplight and you pull up in its red and then it pretty much immediately terms green in a way. It start you get traffic rise, so I pulled up to one in it turn it was read when pulled up in it remained read for laying hens seconds and I'm just staring at it It's not like. I looked away or yeah and then someone

rams on their horn. Now and then I was like, and then I just went, even though it was still red where I was like. That's to me. That's the energy, out here I am just a hunk in a red is get a red jacket, Oh, it's it's up to you! Stir, whoever you are behind us robinson, Mr Robinson, you now you do your fuckin, you do your heart, do it get it out? through a horn through your mouth. It just seems like it's: it's needed, there's it's a bill. It's a real, build yeah right now, yeah, it's a crescendo, the malls pretty chill. Oh yeah. How was the mall another happen decide I went. I knew I couldn't start who actually like one shopping? Because then I d like? Oh my god, it's five! Thirty! Now we have to start recording of fifa.

so I literally was like you can go to this store the store and so far I did you get a snack now I'd. What would you get like? What's your go to use more smack? If you could, I think I just a pretzel right now is what I'm saying literally items that that's alone is going to say. I walked by the west will stand on the way back to the where I was parked in the garage from sufferer, and I was like Looking at it and looking at length, there cannot be anything but like trans fats in wessels prattles right cause how They are oils and- and you have to get cheese with that or you're monster. Yes, I like. What do you suggest? I do? It was one how things where I was like? I wasn't hungry. I did it. It felt like that's all, ever do. If they ever change, nothing will ever change it smell. That kind of violence does not know, is pretty good. Jean others

now a dunkin donuts in my local mall makes life hard. That place smells good yeah. It does seems weird, though donuts in a mall like it doesn't really translate. You know I think in malls Is there just trying to give people what they want their like? Where we know we know it's not like us really unless had any more. What do you want here just like? We need a place. That's gonna stay here. My job is: there's a mcdonald's. There too said to get a second, but now icann and just wander them all along. If you need to do that, that's a very summary notes. That's a summertime thing and it's getting there enjoy some ac. I saw someone say the mall. These days is facebook. When you were a teen, it was a cool place to hang out, and now you go back once in a while to see old people, yelling yeah, something like that,

yes here that makes the mark no one. No one yelled at them all, but I realized I was I did. I was listening to part- says I want around so as like. Oh this is this the way to do it if you're yeah out in the world's feeling aggression, is around you, you just yeah what we listening to her I was listening to. I said no gifts, webley Timothy simons was on it he's so funny. It was really it's a really good episode. It was great, I'm great a book. Can I suggest a book a that pleads like fallen in love with it. It's a during a during apocalyptic e book work, but not like enter the world more like covered times ten and it takes place in the not too distant future. Others another a global pandemic, and each chapter is some one story.

During an it, takes you through the whole, like ten hundred you ten years hundred years after its legs, you did you read world war Z. That was really that in that way too, I watch the movie. I was a big fan of the movie. I didn't mean the books. Graham, I listened to what you said. This book is really beautiful. It's like everything falling apart, but it's just this beautiful book about grief and individuals how they deal with it and what they ve lost in that we're all kind of tickets. It's really really lovely. It's called how high we go in the dark by sequoia nega mass to end

ga m. A s m, a t s, you knock them out too, and it's just that's just I it's one of those books. I don't want to keep listening cause. I don't wanna finish it. You know yup. Well, I'm just really in love with it. That's a good endorsement yeah. I guess my endorsement would be that the fourth season of succession started haven't watched that new episode. Yet don't tell me anything I am so excited, I won't say a word it just like. It was one of those feelings where it started, and oh just like I think it started. It's the same feeling I had on that. I happened upon the first episode of the new season of perry mason, where I was like wait. What is this real? I forgot. I need to do so excited this season. Logan Roy is making me laugh so hard. It's I I just was going to spoil or something it just in his via Logan Roy's vibe color is, if you like, I don't give a fuck. This is the last in a nominal logan, why the hell out of all of you, all generalised, so there's no spoiler risk category. That is

The earth hating when someone's like AL just indicated, theme and now they're fucking it out for your whole enjoyment, but where you're older, you do not have to worry about the same things you worry about when you're younger were free, you're free to behave However, you want and everyone's I'd answers. That's them! It's not a drama point. It wasn't just you get to hear you're, not changing at this point that, despite what you ve become an you, don't give a shit soon. Taking notes from people at this point, that has not been those being the no. No. No. No. No please. Oh ever corrections corner. That's I don't know ironic. I was actually corrected that I was mispronouncing. How I said the clue clogs clan supports all me and I, like I, didn't read it fairly. I it's cool Klux clan. What have we got?

philip, because you are now in the ku klux klan, it's like how about we just call them all nazis. How about we just group them all together and then not really worry about it, mispronounces the ss. So, let's just fucking go with that. Instead, that's that's easy to remember simple redacted yeah exactly I have a good corrections corner. Oh last week in episode three seventy two and I covered the disappearance of the indigenous girl at the net k a ditto. I also gave an update on some indigenous women who went missing and one of them kiana clump. I covered her in episode, two ninety six and in the update I said she hadn't been found, but she actually was found alive in that twenty twenty one. So that's great amazing, great ha, oh well it since

on this will go into the mail bag, because this is really delightful, and this was because I Don'T- and at this point now I'm not sure how many weeks ago was when I did the story about the fight for justice, for the martyrs of henry d and charles more, we got this dm on instagram, it's from. Let will underscored too, and it says listening to the episode now. My dad was childhood friends with charles and henry the place like the peace land where the clan snatch them belongs to my grandmother. There's a marker on it now in their memory. My dad has told me that they were always together, and my aunt, charles and Henry took a few classes at AL state to had my dad not made a different decision that day. wouldn't be here today. Oh my god yeah what an incredible story, while the personalization is so important. Amazing

yeah alright, should we do some exactly right updates, let's do it and get into it this week overrun adult and carried him really fast. In is michel in Jordan's, guest and Michel in Jordan have live, shows I got in April and may at the bell house in brooklyn. I believe it's guan s. If you want to be specific about it, so check their instagram to get some tickets for adulting live, that's a fun show and on that's messed up happen. As EU podcast kara liza discuss episode, eighteen from season seventeen and have a conversation with Robert John burke, he has played for different characters. In the law and order universal. Just so frequent go over there is most notably a levy, a ten cents. Long time love interest at tuckers, that's gonna, be a rag conversation check out, that's messed up. I have a picture

mind of who that actor is because there is a guy that I personally have noticed. That's played multiple characters in in different seasons. On that show, I love it so much. I do too. If you haven't joined the fan, called get it or if you're thinking of renewing, instead of like the gift we usually get so sometimes it's a pin. Sometimes it's like a hat or whatever this season, you're going to get a promo code. That gives you twenty dollars towards any purchase in the merch store, and then you also course get weekly videos, you get your own dedicated many many access to the fancourt forum and much more so cool gotta, my favorite murder, dot com and, lastly, really excited to launch a new teacher design and sweatshirt created by a murder, reno kelly wills of brain flowered designs? We found her a mine loved her work, and so she has made us something really special go to my favorite murdered com or social media to check it out. Now, it's very god. It's teenage parent abandonment conceiving guarantee above it. This is one thing I

assign twitter really quick on April eighth molly, shannon is hosting half an hour. I swear debts. I feel like a real nerd, because that's not it's not for me anymore. I don't like it. I mean it's not like I'm some personnel booster Obadiah for silent. Absolutely a doormat Jan and she's as cool in your life has as she is ass. You think she is a lovely when being I've imagining her hosting that thing like makes me so happy, so special so excited. I heard her memoirs grade. I got it. I think I downloaded ever gonna, listen to it. Yeah she's, like authentically oda, frantically beautiful human beings, lang so kind and loving. Unlike funny, I don't I I just that made me happy. I was just like what is satisfying failings

thinks she's gone back. I don't think she's hosted it since she left that's very cool. That's very awesome! Yea. He Georgia here you know that the feeling of having to go to the grocery store, making the list, circling the store, waiting in line. Do I ever well, you can skip that with hello fresh. They make mealtime easy with simple, delicious recipes made with fresh, wholesome ingredients delivered to your door, with the rising cost of groceries. Now is the perfect time to get started with hollow fresh is cheaper than grocery shopping and twenty five percent less expensive than take out delicious dinners. Our assent withheld refreshes check, curated seasonal recipes that come within greedy already free proportioned, so all you have to do is cooking enjoy. You know the last hello fresh order that I got the thing that

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go to talks. They saw com, slash, Emma's em and get a hundred dollars off your first month. That's talks days, dot, com, slash and I m, thereby lately it seems like everywhere. You turn there's a new story or movie about ufos, yet we still don't really know much about them. So what really is going on with all of this kind. strange is a new investigative podcast that explores just that from our friend pain lindsey tenderfoot tv, the same team. The brought you up in vienna and, at last, a monster. High strange explores the subject of ufos an extra terrestrial life digging into the most famous unexplained events of our time. High strange takes a unique approach to this topic, including exclusive audio, taves and shocking interviews with the real peace.

we'll have experienced the unimaginable whether you're a believer. A non believer or anything in between this eight part series will inform, entertain and excite you hi strange is available now on all podcast platforms, search, hi, strange and your podcast app, that's high, spelled h, I g h and follow the new true crime series about: u f, o's, to binge Tyres season now subscribed tenderfoot, plus goodbye a is current. First, Karen She is right to damage to tell you free georgia that Dave Anthony sent me sometimes Dave anthony of the dollop podcast. If you like, a weird history, you might like the dollop podcast to go over there and try it out. You see gareth got both his There is clear on the road as adair aren't you know you lost a bad with David. and so there at the other, her through the dial up in both his ears peers. These huge pulling you die.

mens in his ear. I watched the video on instagram and it was very funny that is truly genius, so funny so sometimes Dave sends me articles when a story is to like on the side of true crime, because it's not that historical, but he's like this would be good for you guys and I take it. I never tried mine is not yours, so this one was from Dave and he was like you're, not gonna, believe this article and the craziest thing is it takes place of in san francisco. It also takes place in santa Rosa, which is the town just cuddle, em out where the mall is, and so this is a true town from even I never heard of it before it's a story about a woman. new journalist, katy dowd, referred to as the most dangerous woman in san francisco its nor cows, own iva, kroger, ok,

main sources used for the story are, in essence, gate article by writer, katy Dowd called the most dangerous woman in San francisco, and that article is heavily cited throughout this story. She katy doubt is the journalists who did you know the majority of the research on this story. Also, marin pulled the supreme court of California. Nineteen sixty four opinion on the people versus kroger out, and also multiple articles from california newspapers that ran in the sixties that we're, covering this as the story broke, got it and then, if you want to look at any those or the rest of the sources for the story therein, our show notes. So we'll take it, now acknowledge January nineteen sixty two to a little town, Oh very well called santa Rosa California. It's ten. So the one or one from petaluma again, The model is so it's a big deal and

in the beginning of nineteen, sixty two, a police officer- is pulling into the parking lot of the rose city motor court on the thirteen hundred block of santa Rosa boulevard. just across the street from where the boot barneys today and up the road from applebee's back the barn. So in santa Rosa like the centre of town but then like in most towns, as you kind of go out of town its leg, it gets a little city, and then there's like motel, because you you know that kind of. I guess it doesn't look like that anymore yeah, but it did then, so you can vouch for that. I've seen it myself, that's what I'm trying to get it. I put my my eyes on it, so this motel is owned by a fifty eight year old, mildred arneson and her seventy year old, husband, Jay Jay is suffering from advanced stage, parkinson's and the police have been called by Mildred sister Beatrice Brunn. She lives in washington, state and she's, asking them to do a welfare

check on the couple, because she hasn't heard from her sister. The last correspondence beatrice got. Four mildred was a letter from the month before, where Mildred, detailed and extravagant upcoming trip to Brazil with a new friend beatrice Mildred mother oda, I had also gotten a letter telling her the same news. She said why? She was away her husband, J would be well cared for and that this friend who is travelling with it recently come into some money and was kindly fronting heard that ten thousand dollars to cover the trips cost that's nearly one hundred thousand dollars in today's money. No vacations don't cost that, should they know that mean in a perfect world or are you taking a private jet in nineteen? Sixty two like what's happening, buying that jack in fact, taking it they're lying around when you have to stay home, can take care of the rose city, motel,

Apparently all military had to do to get fronted. That money was sign over the motel as collateral too, so that specific detail sounds like a bad idea, but beatrice trust, Sisters, intuition and if anyone deserves a lavish vacation, it's her sister Mildred, the ten after they get this letter. They don't hear anything else. So christmas comes and goes. Not a word from Mildred, which is of course, is very odd, so beatrice decides to call, sister on new year's day and when J her husband answers the phone. All he says is hello b. I dont think I'll ever see. Mildred again

And then the woman caring for him takes the phone from him and hangs it up. So beatrice is not able to reach J again, so she calls the police. So this is when the officers pulling in to the rest of you motor court, he parks as patrol car outside keynotes, all this backstory, but he isn't that concerned. Melter made it clear that she did go on vacation its natural, it would make sense that J is having a hard time contacting his sister in law without assistance. So maybe someone working at the motel, you know he's like yeah there's of probably easily. This is easily explained. He opens the door to the office he's greeted by a friendly middle aged woman, whose station by the front desk the officer, introduces himself and asks of anyone from the motel owners lately because their family is worried and has is calling about them and he's there to make sure that their ok So the woman behind the counter explains that, there's no reason to worry about the artisans jays in good hands and

it is often jawing herself in Brazil and there's probably a simple explanation for the lack of correspondence like maybe she so swept up in the excitement that she just forgot to write home, and then this woman behind the counter offers one correction, to what the officer said. She explains the motel has a new name. Now it's called the EL sombrero and the artisans own it anymore. She does and then she showed him the deed with her name. I so the officer looks at the door meant checks it out. The woman's name is right there and he basically as like. Maybe maybe theorizing that Mildred basically escaped her life here. Working at this motel with her husband who was sick, was to getting too much and she just bailed, it's just a theory, but there's plausible. He still has Mildred worried family to answer two, so the officer gives beatrice brands.

And phone number and he miss bells. Her last night as brown. When it's actually brun be our: u n, n n. He gives that information the woman behind a desk and ask her to give beatrice a call and basically say says like tell her what you told me, and then he leaves the officer has no idea he's just handed beatrice bronze phone number to the woman whose stolen her sisters, this and murdered her and that woman's name is either kroger. Ok for lucille Hooper in Kentucky nineteen, twenty two to working class parents I have a kroger is not her real name, and it is the close to her real name, and we don't know much about her childhood. But by the early forties, she has a husband and two sons in louisville, but it seems like lucille doesn't enjoy domestic life within a couple years. She leaves her family and sets out on her own. So it's unclear exact,

where lucille was planning to go or EDA what her plans are all we know that this part of her life is everything that we can surmise from the trouble she gets into with the law so almost immediately she's sit in chicago in nineteen, forty, five she's twenty three years old and the charges for illegally wearing the uniform of a military nurse. Yet more specifically seals telling people that she's, a navy nurse who survived appeal w camp in Japan, so just straight up and valor postwar america interesting. She pleads guilty to this crime. We can't tell whether or not she didn't need time for it, but what we do know is she is given probation and she immediately skipped town so knowledge, heads west ass. She cycles through fake names and invented identities, as she goes, and by the early fifties. She settled in san francisco with her new name either, and I

Fifty four she's thirty two years old and she marries again and this time to a man named ralph kroger she's, a laborer whose seventeen years for senior- and they eventually move into a small home in the cities outer mission neighbourhood, which is where my mom's from so. We don't really know that much about. I then rouse relationship. It does seem like they're happy together, but at some point either is injured after being hit by a jitney and she's. To the limp. What is a jet me? I looked it up because I didn't know you there and it was like basically a smaller bus. They look like old model, t kind of would know where you could fit like what looked like. Maybe eight people onto it so that you wouldn't have to get on the bus and do all the stops

If you were downtown, you could get over to fisherman's wharf and it was like a one stop kind of bus. So it's a bummer to get hit by one. Yes, and it leaves her with a limp and she winds up suing the company that owns the jitney for damages. It's unclear if she ever received that money, but it seems unlikely, since it's also reported that the couple is struggling financially their hounded by lenders who want payments and buy insurance agents who monitor iver during her recovery, which implies that insurance fraud may have been suspected in that situation. And by the end of the story, you're going to be like yeah. It probably was insurance fraud, but we'll see by november nineteen sixty one the kroger's have had enough with what they consider harassment, but other people would be like it's just us asking you to pay your bills, so they nor the cross, the golden gate bridge up fifty miles and they land at a budget. Motel called the blue bonnet in santa Rosa and they check in under the

name's even ralph long- and this is where I have a crowbar spots and opportunity across the street from the blue bonnet is the rose city. Motor court hotel and, for some reason, either comes to believe this motel will be heard ticket to financial stability. She walked across the street into the front office and asks if the property is for sale. It's unclear water plan was it's just. We just said she didn't really have any money so badly that she had to skip town because of it. But it's a moot point, because Mildred Arneson tells Iva she's not interested in selling, but it doesn't keep ivo away Instead, she starts hanging around the motel and becomes quote unquote good friends with Mildred and she even starts helping out with jays care We don't know exactly what iris personality was like or how she managed to ingratiate herself with a stranger so quickly, but what we do know is within a few weeks.

He has Mildred full trust. So a kind of seems like if I that is like a true sociopath than she probably saw a husband and wife who own that motel and the husband is physically impaired right. So there's kind of like a weakness that she might be able to go in and exploit the ashes and like a scammer yeah. So then that december either announces that she's just earned around two hundred and fifty thousand dollars on an accident claim. should be over a million dollars in today's money and given what we know about, I was financial state. This is very likely a lie but Mildred beliefs her. So when I've tells her that Can you use that money to go on the vacation of a lifetime in Brazil? She invites mildred to come long and Mildred is all in. So she immediately begins planning for this trip. She takes out travellers. Checks at the bank organizes care for her husband and

She sent two letters, wonder her mother and another to her sister, beatrice telling them of heard citing vacation plans, and Is the last anyone will hear of mildred artisan so now we're back at the start of a story, a police officers just left the contact information for Mildred sister, beatrice with either at the rebranded elsa pharaoh motel and not long after that beatrice receives a phone call from an unknown woman who introduces introduced as mrs long and claims and claims running the motel while Mildred is away, and mrs longs insistent beatrice has no reason to worry mildred having the time of her life abroad. In fact, she's just sent a postcard to the motel from mexico, suggesting that she's moved on from Brazil, which doesn't geographically make a ton of sense like she went south first than this, coming up to this long also confirms a J is doing well, and then she shares the news

rose city. Motor court has been sold, which would have come as a shock to beatrice and when she asks who bought it, Missus Allen says she doesn't know, but the phone call strikes beatrice. Hurry. Weird, because as much as you really wants to believe that our sisters off enjoying herself somewhere while J is safe and sound and santa Rosa, she needs to hear it from Mildred directly. But then, on February twelve, she does beatrice gets a telegram that, supposedly from her sister except there are two huge red flags, the telegram assigned mildred and not mill which is how her sister always signs her letters, but an even bigger one. The telegram is addressed to beatrice brown, not beatrice brun, oh dear, which means Mildred her sisters last name wrong. So now beatrice

for a fact, there's no way this telegram came from her sister, so she calls the police again. She explains what happened and she tells them now that she and her friends- are even more worried that something very bad has happened to Mildred, but still, unfortunately, the police. Not too worried about the artisans and the reason it sucks so bad because is because, if they had done so just amount of investigating, they would have discovered all kinds of shady activity, Hang on at the rose city motor court because not only had the artisans belongings been removed from their room and burned, but I've immediately starts taking out loans. In the artisans name

She even use mildred travellers, shacks that she got for her trip to Brazil, pay off debts at local department stores- oh dear so she's kind of she's making no secret about basically replacing this woman, it's it's so creepy zella. Around the same time, beatrice receives the suspicious telegram, a red cross worker stopped by the motel and ask cyber where Mr Ernest S, and it makes sense that this worker would ask either because It's been telling people that mildred left Jay in her care, but on this day I have a decides to play dumb. She tells the man that she doesn't know where Jay is because Mildred had recently come to pick them up, and she will repeat that story over and over in the coming weeks and as she does adding flourish to it. Every time which to me is another sign, you're dealing with a crazy person. Yeah conversion she actually claims that Mildred came to the motel one night at two in the morning. In a

a cadillac, accompanied by two sinister looking men picked up her husband, J and drove off into the night. As one does, I mean yeah. Now it's the last week of February nineteen sixty two I've has only been in charge of the rose city motor court for two months, but the motel has already falling behind on both utility, and loan payments. Meanwhile, back in san francisco, the house that the kroger's had moved out a very quickly and abandoned to move up to santa Rosa basically get out of town.

They ve gone back up there and now they seem to be doing construction work at the house. They ve hired a contractor name, Walter hughes, who they met over the blue, bonnet motel and santa Rosa, and they ve asked him to come and dig out a section of their garage. The basically it's four feet, long four feet wide forfeited perfects. I've explains that is for some plumbing work that they need to get done. But it's such a weird request that Walter actually ends up talking about the details of this job, to people that he knows and them within a few days of him being done like digging that whole the kroger's fill it with cement. That's a star

white collar and completely clashes with the original garage floor, which is a greenish cement. Then, in April the clover start another home improvement project. This time they hire a contract, rename frances kennison to add another layer of cement their garage floor. So when Frances comes to start the job, the first step involves taking a sledge hammer to the awkwardly patched white sections of cement and ripping it all up. So it's like he has to get rid of. What's their first to lake, do the job and make the floor even, but when either here's him busting up the floor. She russia's into the garage screaming about how that part is not to be messed with. Francis insist, the entire floor has to be pulled up, so it can be correctly repaired before cement can be poured but I have a dozen budge. So, despite the uneven and patched flooring, Francis ends up begrudgingly pouring the next layer, cement and

Laying additional wooden flooring on top of that so by the next months, which is may either seems to have had enough with the rose city. Report she's only been at the helm for about six months and she puts it up for sale for seventy two. Thousand dollars, which is seven hundred thousand dollars in today's money and as she waits for an offer, those bills key piling up, and by the summer time the motel hasn't sold lenders, and utility companies still want their money. When the water companies sends out a worker to collect payment from either she pulls a hand. On him and threatens to shoot him to death. So how you do you did? I know you do you gotta pay it even five dollars have you ever been like trying to work out bills when you don't have any money and they're like even five dollars, just get some five dollars a month. They're like we don't want to. Take you to court plead. No, no just do something the worker escapes unharmed, but immediately

the police, of course, so iva knowing she's in big trouble, skipped town, we don't know, if ralph isn't on these plans, I'm sure it was kind of last minute sounds like either way. She leaves him in San Francisco. So within hours an arrest warrant is issued for iva, but when police get to the motel to arrest her she's long gone and months pass with no sign of her and then in august contractor walter she's story about the big hole that he was hired to dig in the covers garage finally makes it back to the police. An investigator start connecting the dots they get. A search warrant for the crow her home in san francisco were ralph is so living, but they don't find much until at the garage investigators immediately noticed the ground floor has unusual bombs and they decide to pull it out. The wooden flooring goes

and then when they get through multiple layers of cement, they make a horrifying discovery. The bodies of Mildred and J artisan they ve both and strangled to death. Mildred has been stuffed into a trunk jason has the belt that was used to strangle him wrapped around his neck mega had ralph swears here, no idea that these bodies were bare in his garage, but he's immediately arrested and now the hunt for either is on after a long months The earnest and family finally hears about their about now. and J and, of course, horrible news. The story sweeps newspapers across the country and beatrice bread and our friends and family are left to mourn, jane, Mildred,

well knowing their suspected killer is on the loose and they keep seeing her face and her name in the paper, and while this onslaught of reporting leads to a huge number of tips from the public, most of them don't lead anywhere. So, with each day that passes without I have a kroger being captured. Fear continues to build around the bay area altogether. I have has been missing for three months, but just days after the actual man's hunt for her begins, a very strange and disturbing development takes place, so it's late august were in oakland. California, which is, if you dont know, was right across the bay from San Francisco and two very young boys aged three and four are found one. Ring around alone in oakland and when the police are called to the scene, they learn from the children that their from florida. These boys tell the police

that they're, a strange grandmother had randomly showed up at their house and taken them away. So on a hunch. One of the officers talking to the boys pulls out a newspaper and shows them a picture of IRA kroger. Now one of the boys says: that's grandma what a hunch cheese! I know refuge seriously, but I think it's like that. That idea, it's like at what what grandmother with brave and like those little kids that shouldn't probably shouldn't be out of a stroller tying much less like walking over odds horrifying. So these boys are are reunited with their very worried parents. This is one of the more confusing chapters of the ivory kroger saga. Investigators can only theorize that either kidnapped and then abandon her grand sons to confuse detectives or may be distract them, but

waste mother Joyce, whose I've his daughter in law thinks it's more than that. She believes that was appointed attack on her husband. I was abandoned son who had cut ties with his mother after she left louisville when he was a child from a cab. So she went all the way back to the family. She abandoned us to kidnap her estranged grey sons and bring them to the bay area. It's a spiteful when it's like you're the problem, lady, it's crazy it was she hiding out or was like. I would love to know what her it would answer thinking what yeah it's so wild me this We prompts even more news coverage on the ivory kroger mannheim. According to journalists, katy out the newspapers take the that's grandma line and run with it and they dub either the ghostly grandma.

the glib grandmother and the ultimate insult dumpy. Grandma. Oh, come on now where's the more in the news, the more there's like tips, a bet she's being spotted everywhere, and according to the press democrat, which is the santa Rosa newspaper, we subscribe outward big supporters of the dead pressed africa oh, it's were spotting iver, knocking on the door of a farmer near heels burg, which is up above centres. Another time, writing in a car on Petaluma hill, road and another time walking on the street in eureka. Witches lake way the hell up north got. It is unclear how The sightings really are. I have a kroger, but each tip is treated seriously. On September, ninth officers rushed to the scene after iva is seen at a

urge all the way down in san diego half, but by the time they arrive, she's gone and this citing is particularly unsettling because J artisans son live in that part Andy echo. Now so the murderer of their father has been spotted near their house, basically so later that site stay in san diego, a man named Joseph bonobo season old woman crying on the street near his home and if you're so sorry for her, he invites her end and ask her to have dinner with him and his wife, but that feeling changes as Joseph and his wife Christine sit across the dinner table from this old woman who refuses to take off her sunglasses, shell, that shell, just so weird gate where it's like you. We think you're sad, but can't tell what s going on with you are you famous, so they basically finish

in our centre on our way. But the next afternoon, Christine's reading the newspaper and she sees a new story featuring a photo of that same woman if she grabs a marker and draws sunglasses over the eyes of the photo and shows it to her husband and they realize that the woman they took in his I have a kroger, a fugitive accused of murder. He aches so Joseph calls the police and incredibly or maybe not so credit They tell him their wrapping up for the evening and he should call back tomorrow. All life Forget your wrapping up policing for then I lose isn't seven, in my view, be expected to help you even seven alone. Open, I'll, fuck and demand. So Joseph caused the fbi either.

I bet thank god. He like cares enough. That he's like he calls the fbi. The fbi is open all night and they immediately get on it and they track iva down to an apartment not far from the bottom of the house She had been living there under the name, Julia schmidt and she's, arrested without incident. So I've capture comes, of course, as a huge relief to the public, much more so to the earnest and family J earnest and sun jack tells reporters Now I can take the shells out of the thirty eight I've had my possession for two weeks and I am sure my brother will do the same when I've speaks to the press. She maintains our innocence and tells reporters that quote. I sleep good and I'm just a happy per and congratulations how much more of a like how much more of a like a complete sociopath do. You have to be be like oh you're, asking me about I'm being arrested for murder air, but don't worry about me. I sleep grave right, so the kroger's joint trial kicks off in january of nineteen sixty three.

so even though many people suspect Ralph did play a role in this crime. Everyone believes either is the mastermind behind these murders and the circumstantial evidence against her, which includes her take over of the motel hiring the contractors and the fact that she was with both victims shortly before their disappearances is all extremely damaging, but ivo refuses to go down without a fight, while both covers plead not guilt here to the murder. Charges Iver decides to add not guilty by reason of insanity to her plea, and then she just It was all in on this insanity, defence. Now she sang songs and the court room. She claims is the mother of god. She pretends to forget why she's being tried during jury selection, she reportedly glares at a prospective juror so intensely that the woman is dismissed from jury duty, oh god in another instance, iva

upswing, witness testimony by removing her shoes and bang them on the table in front of her at one point shiva it's over to the DA's table throws his papers in the air while screaming, and she has to be forcibly removed from the courtroom and that's just a couple examples of what dead. One legal filing says that she interrupts the proceedings hundreds of times she sends exhausting just the worse there to site thats a not how you prove that year, mentally and stave off her trial now be like such a fuck issues on lady lady get their shoes off the table, and then, of course, I was attorney, makes the questionable decision of pudding his unruly client on the stand and, of course, it's a disaster according to katy.

How'd. I ever screamed for fifteen minutes straight, while the judge begged her to calm down loosely dreaming, but her die hard efforts to validate her insanity plea ultimately come to nought. Prosecutors eventually put multiple psychiatrists on the stand, and they all testify that either seems to be faking insanity to secure a lighter punishment. So this trial ass about two months it wrapped up in march of nineteen sixty three and after five hours of deliberating the jurors come back with matching verdicts for either in ralph kroger their boat. Guilty of first to re murder. According to katy, Dowd quote neither made much of a fuss with Iver feebly, declaring that the jury was paid off and ralph ever the sad sack Man murmuring, I didn't expect it of a horrible you sure about that when your wife is beckoned losing it You know I'm here the hour for real

you do know that you put those bodies in one garage I mean that's. That kind of thing is so it's so cold. Like Vega kept, they kept the bodies of their victims and put them in their garage, and now it's so awful. It's horrifying to just a few years after being sent to folsom prison, Ralph kroger dies of cancer in nineteen sixty six at the age of sixty three meanwhile, either continues serving out her sentence, but her behaviour is noticeably impeccable and on top of that, she is experiencing dear vision, loss its left, her almost completely blind. This convinces officials that she's at low risk of re offending so in nineteen. Seventy five after serving about thirteen years of a life sentence, I've as released from prison on parole, so from here hurt trail, gets a little spotty again. It's reported that she moves to riverside where

starts attending services at the local charges scientology how she works in nursing homes. He expresses interest in taking nursing courses, which is the nice call back to her. Criminal charges impersonating a navy nurse. She also around this time drops her alias virtue her legal name lucille. But what does it seem to change is either Angela, undeniably difficult personality, katy dowd rights quote she apparently like to ride the surround white cane in hand and complains of strangers about serving thirteen years for crimes she didn't commit, keep it to yourself, lady, its you did it and you're gonna. May I listen to you blab? Okay, so then, either I'm off the map for a while in nineteen eighty seven. She resurface is twenty five years after her arrest for the murders

of Mildred and J artisan she's. Now in our mid sixties and the police in cape coral florida or trying to track down for threatening a man's life, apparently lucille blamed him for the fatal, drowning of her niece its unclear. Why she came to believe this or what, if any role this man played in the tragedy all we know is that the report's describe him simply as a grocer. He was never charge criminally in relation to the drowning and he seemed genuinely terrified of ida. In any case, she had quote repeatedly made violent calls to his home before showing up to kill him. He aches this man also escaped from her, like the water company employing years before, go straight to police I've, a heads up, town and when investigators do a deeper dive. In your background, there shocked to discover that this lucille that everyone knows her as in florida is yet another alias for the infamous bay a murderer either kroger, except for this one important detail lucille, unlike overcrowded,

has no noticeable issues with her vision here, man, you kid, you can't let some out of prison on alike the suggestion that they gave you the desert. Only she can verify is is true. Scammer liar, like a terrible person, has no moral ethical center. So it's like. Oh it's so sad, she's going blind. It's like yeah, that's yeah. She picked a thing that would make you think she would just The ineffectual out on rates for crime. Katy. Doubt rates quote the police wondered if she'd faked blindness in order to secure in it early release and having achieved her goal, could then apply for state aid for the blind. So then she's committee, fraud is wasting money either remains at large for the rest of her life because of her habit of taking on fake names. We don't know where she went

what she did every once in a while. I have a story, would pop up in newspapers or magazines describing her as like a boogie man. That's laying low waiting. drake at any moment, but through reality is that she likely I'd in Boston. In the year two thousand at the age of seventy eight, she lived in public housing. She was diagnosed with cancer, and she died alone, so alone that the name on the next of kin on her death certificate is a social worker that she was not related to. Oh, my god. Here's the perfect button for this story. That's from katy dowd, and if you want to read that her article, it's in S, gate is really good and she says this for nearly to hunt years. San Francisco has been the last stop of petty thieves. Con artists and killers. I have a kroger was all free and that's the story of the notorious bay area killer. I have a kroger thank a song and dislike. Get like go off and

the obscurity and no one knows like their summit. neighbor their someone's fuckin friend, if she d gotten a nursing, she's taking care of people. You know lake vulnerable people on allowing all argue about yeah. It's crazy gps, the worst and she is really good at it. She clearly She has no shame she doesn't. She just is gonna get one she wire. Unlike if she's going to lie she's going to do whatever it takes to do that like and they're. Looking at hers, like oh she's, just this old lady, she let let the old lady yeah like she's, not dangerous that's, going to be a real surprise, some Genji or who does their second dna. You now ancestry tree little, whose make great great grandma, whatever the pack she's. Oh, she led grandfather wander free in italy. The three is only

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do you know how to relieve her? I mean I can gather dont. Do it I love. I gave the sources since it is a process are in an e article by cm frankie and archived article from the guardian accredited to christopher reed, an m article by manuel lopez, restrepo, washington, post article by Natalie mountain petra Zella and another washington post article by Timothy Bela, and there s can be found in our show, notes and we're. Gonna start with your favorite work out, jasper, size, cove, yea, hold on. Let me let me for my leg, farmers. Would you please ok, so I let reorganized nineteen. Eighty eight ronald reagan is in his second term as president at the: u s: cool, ranch, doritos and pass salad that say or all the rage

the senior your senior I'm bringing a lot of sunkist orange soda. Probably nice people, especially women, are obsessed with aerobics. This new way of working out with his comfortable footwear and bright colored high cut Targets is easier on the body widely available across the country and is created by women for women. Is it hit? You know, there's a huge reckoned. It was a true cultural phenomenon at the time. well there's that show now on and physical, the show physical and apple with friend, of that molly, rory, hee hee. Great in that. Second, that's a good job and it I'll show you that, and the eighties aerobics in georgia is another becomes a massive industry. There is be a tapes classes and, of course, clothing and footwear. Some companies jump on Iraq's trend sooner than others like reebok. They hit the mark,

with the successful new sneaker design, especially for women who do aerobics, and there are huge success. But nike has underestimated the power, the lasting power of this new form of exercise, and they initially dismiss rubik's craze and by the late nanking abies. When aerobics is at its height of popularity, the company is not doing while nike, Yad Michael was made not doing well, that's correct. You see again soon he to do better hires and outside advertising firm, called, widen and kennedy out of portland Oregon to help dig them out of their whole. The firm tired to design a brand new campaign for television for print and merchandise, just like totally overhaul the company's image and put them back into competition with russia, They want to widen their audience and nike doesn't want just focus on women and aerobics, but wants to appeal to all americans, regardless of age, gender and active level. All of that

hmm really. What I'm hearing there is, let's focus back on the boys they were like they didn't want to do it the first time they're not going to do it. This study outright sedan widen is one of the namesakes of this firm he's a true out of the box thinker and reportedly seeks inspiration wherever he can find it. When he's working on this new nike campaign, he feels like something is missing from it. They have some good content, but there is nothing tying that advertisements like into one you know cohesive box, but then Dan has an idea. It's a dark and kind of morbid idea, but Dan wholeheartedly believes it's going to be just what this campaign needs. So we gotta think of him as a nineteen eighties, don draper, I feel, like you know what I mean: okay, yeah, so dan pitches, a slogan to the nike people, it's a short but pointed phrase to tie the advertising campaign together, just

Do it at first, everyone hates it. So just remember that when your pitching stuff or were you doing things in life, sometimes everyone hates it offers for real dan, though says trust me, nike does obviously the rest is history. The just do it campaign is wildly successful. It's like everyone knows what it is just by the sound of it these days right. It's like yet will probably one of campaigns in history. I'm guessing, I would say, would gap, but what isn't revealed intel decades later is that the inspiration for this slogan come from the last words of a convicted murderer named Gary Gilmore, oh wow, not only that, but his execution in the late nineteenth seventys was at the heart of a nation wide

It's a battle over the death penalty, so we're gonna rewind to nineteen forty, which is the year Gary Gilmore, is born. He's raised in portland, Oregon, he's a gifted artist and a particularly bright kid, but he is the constant target of his father's horrific abuse according to his younger siblings. This abuse just completely shapes who gary contains, sadly, from a young age, Gary begins to show dramatic signs of being violent and impulsive and by the time he's fifteen he sent to reform school and, according to his brother, becomes quote fully committed to living a criminals, destiny. His brother happens be a guy named Michael Gilmore from Portland Oregon,

a writer and music journalists and he had written for rolling stone and that sort of thing and actually read a memoir that included his story of his brother in it as well. So we got a lot information from that. He spends its adult life in and out of prison for armed robbery and assault and at some point a prison psychiatrists describes Gary as having anti social personality disorder with psychotic features and prescribes a massive doses of anti psychotic medications to control his hey you're, while conditionally on parole a nineteen. Seventy six. He leaves town and MR provo unita which, by the way, I look, this story up. Energy amount than it had written about it and provide you talk and have a really great marina mete out, because so many people were like my grandfather worked at the

and then my dad was at the worked at the shoe store that he tried to get a job that, like there's just so many emails, it's wild. That's amazing! I couldn't include everything our salt lake show was amazing. Yes, that's so true! So long ago we had a good one there. So gary he's thirty six years old time. He falls in love in Provo. You tie with a nineteen year old woman named Nicole, and nepal has simply how to run already up until this point before meeting this second gary she'd been married twice and had two kids and was seemingly unlucky. I love their relationship, is rocky and dangerous he's drinking heavily, he's extremely violence, and eventually, Nicole leaves him due to the abuse. This sends him into a murderous rage. On the night of July nineteen nineteen, seventy six gary Gilmore walks into a gas station in autumn utah

There's one gas station attendant a young woman and student at bring em young university, nay max jensen. He wasn't fussy working that night, but he lost a quaint, fled with a co worker and how to cover the shifts. Gary tells them to lay on the floor and max whose terrified he completely cooperates. He totally complies but without warning or motive, Gary shoots him in the head at close range killing him on the spot. The next night Gary walks into a motel in Provo utah, just a few miles down the road from the gas station. He demands the cash box from the motel manager, benny bush now, who also is a mormon and student at brigham young universe the and the same fucking thing happens: Gary tells them to get on the ground. Then he does exactly as he's told but mcgarry shoots him killing him instantly. This time, there's a witness. A motel guests had seen the whole thing gary

these, and he tends to get rid of his gun and actively shoots himself in the hand about doing so. Oh so because, as you leave, the trail of blue as he travels around town, that night and there's a mechanic had been working on his car and he also saw the blood on gary's hand and had also heard about the shooting that was really close by so he was easily kai ya police catch him quickly. He doesn't resist a rest. It's not clear why he surrendered so easily to the authorities, but it's likely he knew he'd eventually get caught and later on. When he's asked He went on this murderous free, Gary responds, I don't know, I don't have a reason and then also someone residence at the ted Bundy was at the prison at the same time as him, the prison he was taken to a while after getting arrested just crazy. So the trial of Gary Gilmore is relatively open and shut in the war

If Gary's defence attorney Michael S, plan quote, he was not a very good criminal. He shot himself with his own gun and left a trail of blood. Any did it in front of a star witness, so Gary didn't even want to trial. He just wanted to plead guilty and be done with that. He seems like a real fucking only dec. or are you just know, there's no point in us, not gonna. Like pretend yeah, it's also went on the sprit because he said he wanted to go to prison or something like that it seems like, but once the trail starts gary seem so like the attention he thinks this will somehow win back Nicole, all his girlfriend, he blows were kisses in the courtroom. He's not only unsympathetic in the eyes of the jury he's totally repulsive to them. He has killed two members of a close knit faith community without motive explanation and both victims max and benny left behind wives in very young children. So it feels like everyone in Utah hates Gary Gilmore yeah, he's convicted on october seventh night

Seventy six! What is unusual about this case, that's kind of an obvious conviction, but what is unusual that Gary Gilmore is sentenced to death. This is the first when I was ten years that any one of the united states has face, the death penalty see back and length of each the supreme court court that the death penalty falls under the umbrella of cruel and unusual punishment and is unconstitutional so the death He had been taken off the table completely in the entire united states. Such things are really rare thing to do for years. Even though sixty six percent of americans supported the death penalty, and so in a landmark decision in eighteen. Seventy six, the supreme court overrides its previous ruling and the death penalty is now legal again, so gary guilt,

war is gonna, be the first person put to death since it had become unconstitutional, gotta the garriga. Nor does it seem to care when, given the choice to die by hanging or fire squad, he's reportedly unemotional when he replies quote, I'd rather be shot. So his execution schedule for november fifteen nineteen, seventy six and eight a m, but against his wishes, anti death penalty groups from all over the country start to get involved, including the a c l. U, the american civil liberties union due to their advocacy work. His execution gets pushed back again and again until it's finally scheduled for two months later, on january, seventeenth, nineteen, seventy seven so Gary Gilmore becomes this. The center of this death penalty discussion in america out for both sides, he seemed to want to die, which I think was a weird a little. You know caveat in this argument. It's not like he was hoping to get out of the death penalty, so he attempts to take his own life twice while on death row and publicly asked the anti death penalty advocate. To quote

but out around the site to set about you did he had not for you it's about what's rate for humanity and aroused evolved humanity exactly uneven, now some earlier during that christmas season. In seventy seven he's even parodied on Saturday that live, oh shit, the show is only in it. Can season and that night, the musical guess it's rings at, and the hostess canvas bergen, candice bergen, along with some of the chosen biggest stars like an accurate and john pollution guelder radner. They sing a fake christmas carol as snow big snows coming down the wrong. I christmas sweaters and they sing a song about by let's kill Gary Gilmore for christmas lights. Hang him from atop the christmas tree. Let's give him the only get that money can't buy, put poison in his ignoring led him drink it watch him die so like this is like

everyone has been talking about this. Do you think they were being ironic? I think ever my hated very delmore, but I dont know if it was like. Let's actually kill him or like this, is what I just like talking about allied are right, but I think Everyone had wanted hated him and, like maybe there's a I the people who were maybe not on the fence about the death penalty to begin with, but then because of this guy and what he had done were pro in a way like kind of divided the country right. Sometimes it's dark eyed. I had no idea, that's really dark there. The day comes its total chaos. The morning of january, seventeen nineteen, seventy seven at the utah state prison where Gary Gilmore is scheduled to be executed, journalist, film crews and protestors, both for and against the death penalty and reportedly approach death penalty advocate

rose an egg at the head of a dish up who is holding a prayer circle for Gary Gilmore outside the prison. Sir yeah she's screw leave the bishop. Out of this I mean it's that's a whole different argument that leave the chickens, analyse some new layers, good god, it's so over simplified. It yes It's crazy gum, there's helicopters with cameraman flying around like it's just the whole scene. It sounds similar to when TED Bundy got put to death to you know what there was just this whole, this crazy mob. Yeah then gear gilmore is somehow given permission to call a country western radio station local one and request his favorite songs that night second, wind ammonium ia, nowhere the thats, not that's the seventy fettes hon wow, that's fucked up so fuck up. So

no one's really sure. What's going to happen at sunrise when Gary is scheduled to be executed like is it going to be postponed again, a washington post, journalist, writes quote we at least found all of it profoundly distressing, having been spared for a decade the ordeal of reading about house, a civilized nation puts a convicted prisoner to death. We had almost forgotten how awful it is. So it is like a carnival scene when someone's life is on the line against a really bad person's life, but it's just. Really crazy right, but the but kind of boiling it down to like he did bad, so he dies which we you know we have talked about this on the show this is this is one of those things were inside. You can read a big long story of some horrible horrible, crimes and horrible things, and when you get to the end of it, it's like yes, I think that person should not be honest.

I am more yeah, but then you know there's always the turn of Gary Gilmore never had a chance to his father. It's the living shit out of him and he had mental illness and this and that so, like. Obviously, all of those discussions are so much more complex than I pick this side. I pick that side totally. That's just fifty, gray, essential and why you're talking like a book you know who played a perfectly as fifty shades of okay. So a last minute request to delay the execution goes into effect midnight I've. So a judge has to fly over five hundred miles to utah in the middle of the night, just as in either request in person.

Hmm, so it's seven! Forty five am just a few minutes before sunrise when Gary Gilmore and the rest of the nation are told that his execution is moving forward. Oh well, he set up in front of a firing squad and strapped into an oak chair, fuck, the grandfather of the murder rino, who strapped him into the chair, listless emailed us to. Let us know about it. It's like seriously. Everyone is involved in this fucking wow story. It's wild, there's five men hidden behind a curtain and they are and there's five small holes for their rifle butts to stick out of the curtain and their guns are aimed- and this is obviously so you know they won't have to see themselves shooting someone and they they say they put four bullets in the five guns. So no one knows who actually killed them, but, like later his brother says he saw five bullet holes, so they don't really know if there actually was only four bullets. Sorry, I'm confused about the four bullets. I guess when there's

if people in the firing squad, let's say four: they only put bullets in four of the guns and they don't tell you which gun doesn't have one so that you can always feel like. Well, maybe I didn't shoot him. I think it's for the people that you know what I mean got you yes completely. Just like such an argument where it's like it's so traumatic for people whose job it is to kill someone that they don't make it. You know right what are the were, were bending ourselves all around right like this and ok fangs, actually when they asked for gary's last words. Here simply replies quote: let's do it, he isn't flinch when the guns are fired, and so pop culture. Just like a little bit of that little tad bet. There's a punk ban called the admin its and their hit. Nineteen. Seventy seven single is called Gary yo more's eyes, because Harry Gilmore requested that some of his organs be donated for transplant purposes and chew people received his corny as well. Yeah

so I think I was a load disturbed by that, and so they wrote looking through Gary go mars eyes by the aberdeen check it out the eyes weren't connect into the brain, though anymore. So it's ok, they're just corny, as you can tell a punk band, anything really. They're going to say The thing you're like you can't save like we don't care word. Jody fosters. Army We don't care where jerk somewhere in a circle thanks not that dad Ok, so it isn't until ten years later that dan widen the Men guy is working for nike he's trying to figure out. Something was hiding gather and he remembers is mostly forgotten bit of american pop culture about Gary Gilmore, because Dan is from portland Oregon. It's like Gary wise. It's likely he followed the murders and trials and the execution somewhat closely. He remembers. Reading about those last words: let's do it and being really impacted by them.

And in a twenty five teen fifteen interview dan shares. That close, I remember when I read that I was like this is amazing. I mean how, in the face of that much uncertainty, do you push through that? So I didn't like the let's thing, and so I just change that, because otherwise I'd have to give him credit, so he told of pig made it clear that that's where he got this huge marketing campaign slogan. Well, yeah according to american fitness culture, scholar, Natalie moment, petra zella Dan then borrows from first lady Nancy Reagan who had made her mission as for

lady in the reagan era, to continue this fact up war on drugs, and this is when she comes up with her now infamous just say no campaign, though I must say its later realised that this campaign does very little to reduce drug use and might have actually definitely just increased stigma against drug addiction and attics. It is catchy so damned basically mash up Gary Gilmore. Let's do it with Nancy reagan's, just say now well and creates just do it. The introduction of the slogan increases nike brand sales by a thousand percent over the next ten years. Is this correct yeah? So it fucking worked? Well, I remember when that commercial came out, it is very kind of the vibe is very aggro. Jimbo is like don't be. easy, peg, essentially yeah, but it was the first time anyone seen. Anything like that it was like get up, from where you are right. This second end just do it was like chills inducing like he. I gotta go

there's no excuses just, do it yeah, really good. I is at what eight year old was like. Yes, I must just do it seem so nike doesn't really, of course, ever publicly acknowledge the inspiration behind their best. And slogan they're like good talking about it according to company insiders, the origin story is generally not known, or if it is, it's not really discussed within the company yeah for some it's just a bit of a grizzly inside joke, but the lasting power of just do. It is undeniable. The slogan helped to open the door, to nike, reaching more diverse demographics athletic where the popularity and universality, universality, universality, universal reality, versatility, its universality

the popularity and universality of just do. It leads tanky to create future ad campaigns in the nineties and beyond. You can leave me trying to pronounce sudden student and keeping in mind the company's recent experience of missing the mark when the aerobics craze swept the industry. Nike starts putting new effort into highlighting women in sports and encouraging girls to participate in athletics from a young age. The second memo that women can make them money too. Smart capitalism, the origin story and legacy of just do it is very complex. Obviously this phrase is inspired: millions of people and has also likely soul millions of thankee products. Just do it seemingly help nike move away from a culture of sexism towards a marketing strategy that is more inclusive and political. But it's hard to it at the slogan itself, is rooted in the murders of two innocent people and the death of their murder.

Who died at the hands of the state or the nation was at a fever pitch regarding its attitudes towards the death penalty, and that is a complicated and bizarre story of the execution of Gary Gilmore and the inspiration for just do it. The advertising campaign that help make nike what it is today wide old, oh and there was a book by norman, mailer about it called the executioner song which, in nineteen eighty two is made ensue a maid for tv movie or movie. I dunno starring, tommy lee jones as garriga and he doesn't look like that here. I'm gonna have a hundred, send you a pick on the chap. He looks like that and then, if Tom Kenny up spongebob square pants fame had a baby, look at him just like slightly dislike and let all young little yeah yeah, but Tommy legions embryos and our cats in it as well

Earlier homily jones man, man, oh man, I think he won the emmy are us where he one whatever this was their word for it for the executioner Sophia. I was just little and I'm so, I'm sure, like the death penalty as a topic on the news was finally, like in my arms was this, but this level of it and this kind of like this rage about it yeah fervour, but it also makes me think of. Like I remember hearing my parents talk about it in in very simplistic ways, would you believe it was almost like bible based of like, if you kill a person than that's it, for you lay I you don't get to live if you're going to kill another person. That's what I was raised around here and I think like this- is the kind of thing people don't you people these days, don't understand that it truly was even Vienna forty years ago, so much of it blurred time in that way, where leg is

well didn't want to know stuff, they didn't have to know it. It's not like they had a phone in their hand or the internet or anything totally. So if you, saw on the news of like you know, death penalty, good or bad? Are you praying con? You picked aside the end and if you had some sort of like a religious backgrounds, say here's how My decisions or you are when you went to law school, and you saw some super fucked up like Roy. Full convictions where you like. No, no. No. This can happen like, but that wasn't part of the conversation back than either there weren't. so wrong that no one ever got wrongfully convicted in their minds. You know what I mean like the bad guys are the bad guys and they did bad things, and that is the end of the story. There's no nuance! There's no nuance to it at all. There was never knew once, and it was like when you heard stories of leg wardens at jails who are like everyone has to wear pink and it's so humiliating to them or whatever and you're like haha good cause, you're bad, because you went to jail yeah and then it's like slowly over the years story starts come out were just like. I never did anything, and I was right

for forty years and all these kinds of things that, like the complexity grows as we all evolves, I assume it blows me away. I mean it's like it's the same experience we have had on the show where genetic here's, the things. I think, as I don't know any if tell people tell me yeah now and then the conversation doesn't even start with people being rehabilitated like that, doesn't even come close to being part of the conversation it's like before even get there. It's like there's ten fuckin opinions and thoughts about the whole matter before rehabilitation ever comes in will end like the idea that what if we took some money out of the yearly police budget, which will either- which basically is line on. The grass goes way the fuck out off the page, their minds, and if you took that and put it into what what kind of programmes are working are helpful is actually affecting people who grew up

and we're constantly had the shit beaten out of them by their father and also had mental illness and this and that yeah it didn't have the resources that we had of education and safety and food and just the basics, to keep you keep you safe and keep you you know away from from trouble like you know, like you're, doing petty theft as a I kid and it's like. Let's look into the the reasons this person feels necessary to commit these crimes rather than just punish them and say they're a bad person and take them off the streets. There's a need, there's a need. It's like that! Yeah, it's just it's wild! It's like that is such a a mate that was amazing by the way, and it's like the comprehensiveness of like coming up coming up the lake. Here's! What's going on a roll back,

You don't like, will actually here's what we got it from ten years ago or file. Here's this crazy thing that was happening. Words dislike him too, I'm now. I never things an interloper out, it there's an interconnectedness and it all comes back to true crime. It all just come back to true cried everybody's reading those books of light. Why what are human beings capable of and why I what's the. Why then there is the day everyone wants out his fuckin now. These second politicians want it to be simple and there to be a buck and let's ban drag and things and bad things. What happened at children any more and less lena,

Well, the arm teachers and everything will be fine, and it's just so fucking idiotic one of my favorite things, and this is happening on all social media that I'm on now so twitter and tiktok just story after story. Every time someone gets arrested for like child molestation and it's a church, pastor, yeah and people are keeping track where they're like this is the thirtieth church pastor that has been arrested for this and so far we have zero drag queens. Who have been arrested like that whole thing, guess how many children have been killed by drag queens with fuck reading them a book, none, zero and guess how many fucking children have been killed. The fact that we have zero fucking done laws in this country, a fucking shit on an end yet another another than yet another, and yet another egg. Let's, let's done it's a money, shall we good idea? Acl you yeah. Let's do it.

seal- you, american civil liberties union. Ten thousand dollars give what you can support them, how you can whatever that may be- and I don't know, I have someone that Nisa yeah just like educate yourself. You know what I mean. If you don't have five bucks to spare, we understand, or sometimes the creditors wants, that five dollars and it can't go anywhere else. We got up very true yeah, so just looking at the educate yourself, that's a really great way to be a to be a fighter. Yeah very true. You know and don't forget, to watch important videos on tiktok. That's a great way to educate yourself. It's just. It is such an advantage that we just having lived half of my life without it. It's so much better with it, which also is like that tiktok ban is complete, bullshit, it's complete bullshit and there are people on tiktok who are showing people

what and what stocks those senators who were at that hearing what stocks they're dumping and what stocks they're buying. So everyone else can do exactly what the senators are doing, because that's why they're doing it they're not afraid of data being sold, because if they were they would have on facebook after cambridge, analyse what they are afraid of is the fact that people can talk directly to each other and edges at each other and tell the real news and actually that it so effective for young people to have that level of information in their hand. That's amazing tick, tax and the spy glass box, where you get your nerves. Not from this far. No! No! No. No thanks are listening. You guys, thanks for being with us and fucking fighting the good fight yeah, it's good that we all care so much yeah. Let's take that into the future spacex

and don't get murdered, Elvis tijuana cookie, This has been an exactly right production producer, is all a hundred kept our senior producers Hannah Kyle Creighton. This episode, it's engineered and mixed by steven ray morris or researchers or mare in the classroom and Sarah Blair Jenkins email, your hometowns and fucking her as to my favorite murder at gmail, dot com follow the show on instagram and facebook at my favorite murder and twitter at my fav murder. ghana and follow. Leave us a review on amazon, music, apple podcasts or wherever you get. Your pipe casts: hey, prime! did. You know that you can listen to my favorite murder early and ad free on amazon, music, download, the amazon music app. Today you can support my favorite murder. By

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