The Senate on Wednesday voted almost entirely along party lines to acquit President Donald Trump on abuse of power and obstruction of justice. The panel discusses the vote, the latest from Iowa and Mitt Romney's vote.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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I've got broaden of shoulders to be able to do to whether that they personal changes are my in my career, political or otherwise
What I don't have is the cap
to ignore my conscience I dont have the cap.
City to to say that what was wrong was not wrong. What
It really was grievously wrong. It was great the sleigh wrong and yet the president
got away with that good morning and welcome to morning Joe, it is Thursday February Sixth, along with Joe
in May, we have MSNBC contributor, MIKE Barnacle Republicans,
I d just and Emerson BC political analysts, Susan Del Percy, o cheap national correspondent for the New York Times magazine Mark Leibovitz
is with us and former White House Press secretary to.
Where are the gangster only getting a little baby? Did they give? It is here and there are no great
the ceo leading, really rare, p2p
No I'm really was running around the country campaigning for Barack Obama that he was like the fifth Gibbs brother.
Have you forgotten about that bed and as Robert sat there and that music came out, I could see the regret wash over his face tat. He had decided to return that long.
Stu Mornings,
you're really suture. There's a lot to talk about this morning maker for us here
Mitt Romney the courage showed there are quite a few Democrats who showed a great deal of courage to yesterday, three or four in particular will be talking about absolute, who I mean whose political ally
we're on the line they chose to do what they believe was right, not what would be popular back in their state, of course, at the president being acquitted, but
becomes the first president in the history of this Republic Willie. The first president
They have a member of his own party vote too.
Remove him from office and why
extraordinary day yesterday, ended up being in Washington DC plus oh yeah, there's still county.
EL. It's an eye Joe. I ran into Steve Cornet key in the elevator just now boys. You got a story to tell us. This thing is getting crazy and Bernie Sanders could not only take the popular vote but could edge head here.
Also in the delegates we'll get to meet round these historic vote. In a moment I will say a lot to talk about their, but first late developments in I was democratic Caucasus
results from Monday nights votes still trickling.
Believe it or not. This morning that we are up to ninety seven percent of precincts reporting people to judge and
or Bernie Sanders our near.
In a tie. Let's bring in national political correspond,
the four NBC News and MSNBC Steep Cornet went home slept
about forty five minutes. In fact this morning and Manning has posted getting roared stay where we right now yeah. I was here little after midnight and we got a massive change here and I or you can see what it looks like you just put it up there too
of one percent, now separating Bernie Sanders in people
Let me show you what happened and why there
really is a chance here too, Sanders is going to overtake Buddha judge. The cares this number underneath the twenty six point, two underneath the twenty six,
you can read. There are five fifteen for Buddha Judge in a five forties
four Bernie Sanders. What this is this is the
bit of measurement.
Using I ordered the firm in the winter to determine the national convention values. It is called the state delegate equivalent the state delegate, equivalent sort it be so
our keen here, but this is very important, because this is how the winner is gonna be decided. The margin right now is for state delegate equivalent. There are not many state, delicate equivalence that are left up for grabs nigh. What the reason why this got so close. The reason why Sanders has a chance is not to do
with anything that happened on this map. We ve been showing you for three days. It has to do with
member, these the satellite Caucasus, so on
hawk is day on Monday, before everybody showed up at night for the regularly scheduled Caucasus
greed, and I were to hold meetings throughout the state for folks who had the work at night for folks who had limit
nations that didn't allow them to get to their normal local precinct Caucasus? They had a bunch of them and they put him out by congressional district. There are four congressional districts in ILO, basically for three two one, it looks like this: they wait
till this very end to release the results check out. What's happened in three?
then we're missing. One result: that's gonna be key check out. What's happening, three of MRS the fourth congressional district.
Bernie Sanders got. Seventy five percent PETE Buddha Judge got five percent check out what happened in the third
congressional district? This is deploying. This is the biggest one check this out. Sixty nine percent sanders you gotta go
we are here to find Buddha judge at one percent
What has happened in the second congressional, this
This is the I City College, one so more support here for warring, but again fifty three percent for scientists. You gotta go past club, which our past Yang Pass by
past and made a very is Theirs PETE Buddha Judge, so you can see,
What this adds up to? Let me can do the math we're here. If you pretend
For me, this is my approximation of Iowa, but these are the four congressional districts
Sanders gained on due to judge three here in the fourth congressional district
well here in the third congressional district
five and a half and court five here in the second congressional district, he gained twenty state delegate equivalence from these three Congress,
districts. As I said there is one left, the first congressional
strict sort of the northeast part of the state were expecting to get that some time today,
If, if the pattern we see hole,
the pattern we see holding in these other congressional districts, Sir
The Buddha judge not registering if that
registering if that holds. That is the point.
Stability for Bernie Sanders.
Net another load of state delegates here? That would put him over the top, and I can do
hell yeah, it really is coming now. Do we always
cliche? Is it comes down to turn out the number of state delegates that will be up for grabs in the
congressional District satellite caucus
pigs on how many turn out to vote. If it is six hundred one or more, it's gonna be worth about eleven state delegate equipped,
if it is six hundred or less it's gonna, be worth five point six. If it's eleven either
centres, can get over booty, judge statewide and can build up a big enough led right. There
There are some outstanding precincts here in Ireland it could come in. Buddha judge could still pick up a little bit here if its, if you get the six hundred.
One plus thirty. Ok,
I will move to judge could get if it's six hundred of us. It is
Today's here for him- and I can just tell you- we
some folks out there who are checking these precincts as they come in their best,
right now is that number is gonna be
around, while six hundred okay. So just to recap, the hits that six o clock
Bernie. Sanders takes the delegates, the delegate, equivalence, which is how we measure winner here, but also already yes, Andrews campaign can claim victory based on the vote total, which is it
So we ve seen that this year they made that public. I dont want to jump ahead too far steed, but is it fair to say that these results-
we'll be contested either way. Based on what happens in a couple hours.
That one outstanding satellite caucus area
You could imagine if this thing ends up a real. It's gotta be tight, no matter what you ve, probably seen if your father, when this stuff online for
saying hey over here in this precinct. I saw this happen over here in this house
and here is a picture of that that's happening? The campaigns
have an opportunity to lie,
challenges to lodge complaints with a state democratic party? I believe they could do that.
Friday, I believe then theirs.
Period of forty eight hours that the State Party has to address it? So is the past
Billowy there, that where this thing lands there's still a couple more,
days, therefore, for looking into it, but you're right, just to put the number up when you say Sanders
the popular vote, this has continued to grow. It is essentially six thousand now on the first preference, the folks who showed up the advance
four centres is road of four point, six thousand, and so the question at this point clearly he's gonna finish on top of their. The question is that
they delegate equivalent wondering
used for the czech marks for the official winner for the National convention delegates. Does he also catch Buddha judge there, and, while that is
a barn murderers out. You call it, I guess that's our idea is. Thank you so much Steve jobs. What am I want? My pet peeves less and I began by actually, since this is
going on, is people and saying will look at the vote total as well, and so maybe we measured by,
Maybe we measured by now. I it's actually that first round sake the first half of a vote
our game six hours five b
the rules are about delegates.
I think at this point it so close. It doesn't really matter both Bernie and PETE. Can
walk away from this as as winners, but it
it is here it taking to hear people obsessing or we have so many numbers. We don't know what to do with it. Will you do with it? What you do with the electoral college tallies long, that's, u determines the winner is and that's what candidates,
determine a winner, then that's what the winner
SL winner is chosen so anyway, it's really not that confusing at all Bernie Sanders Mare paid job
Elizabeth WAR knew how they were going to declare a winner in Iowa, we'll find
very soon who that winter is by Robert gives a question is: does it matter at this point
being Bernie and may repeat, very can be.
Entered the losers, Joe Bobby, the winners, Joe Biden, sovereignty admitted he's a loser. I guess Elizabeth Warrant. Maybe she gets a push on new
sure is neither a winner, Nora Loser. How does
how did the results of via the chaos of Iowa set up?
these candidates going into New Hampshire. What sort of a perfect
later on? I was at the vote. Total update at one in the morning creates this sort of chaos at the very last part, but I think you hit on the point pledged delicate,
to the convention, are what decide the eventual nominee and I think for both sand,
there's an for mere paid. They both
the head of essentially the competition most in their layin right sanders as it had a Warren Pizza head of
in that sense both of them up, and you see it in the tracking pulling in New Hampshire PETE getting a bump in.
And may be creating essentially another two person race, leading
Ensue New Hampshire right now and again, I think important that each of those candidates was a head
in both the liberal and moderate lanes of this primary aright tactic,
look at New Hampshire right here to Roberts point. Bernie Sanders is big time in the lead with PETE. Looking like he's
coming in. Second, at this point, Joe Biden Download, though, and Elizabeth Warren- this is the story, I think, for many years, the limits that without was the boss, the globe, here's Emerson College, one that has Sanders thirty, one percent brutal judge twenty one per
Joe Biden Elizabeth, went all the way down of twelve percent,
a week. We can take out a lot of headlines from these poles in Iowa. My bites
it seems to me to be. We can predict, what's going to happen as we move forward the super Tuesday as it pertains to put a judge and and Sanders
but we can declare this that the Joe Biden has ban would met with no doubt the first two full week of this kind
did have campaigned the loser he's right. He took a gut punch,
Both he and Elizabeth Warren are going to be
staggering out of north out of
New Hampshire, if these now
as that we say in these. Poles are anywhere close to being accurate, Joseph,
The damage there's no doubt about it by Iowa, more specifically by his own campaign, the lack of ground game that he had, and I were the surprise
Do you about those numbers that we just put up, though Joe is the slippage the rapid slippage? If you are in
Andrews. I was a weaker ten days ago. You would have thought that would be Bernie ahead, Joe Biden Second and Buena judge.
Sort of we know well back your item for five points back
and Elizabeth just stay in the same, which again Elizabeth swore and slippage has been
the prize and in New Hampshire, she was going to win that primary. If the primary were held on things
giving day of
and she is choose where she is now, but Joe Biden campaign in New Hampshire is now he is it not a must
to win, but he is a must finish second or a close third, anything other than that
keys, hurt in South Carolina and it doesn't look at all like he's. Gonna be a close second based on that Paul's ivy suit that five days to see what happens here, but guys the argument from the campaign, the binding,
as you know, is lower expectations, and I would do ok in New Hampshire, then we're fine. What
we start in South Carolina. But if you finish where it looks like he's, gonna finish in Iowa, and then, if you finish third or fourth down in New Hampshire,
the sudden, the voters in South Carolina, which is supposed to be your firewall or looking at you completely differently and that firewall of Africa
american voters starts it oh wait a minute. You know it's pretty,
we gotta know. Let me take a look at Bernie Sanders of people to judge or somebody who has not had that african american support. You cannot count on
out Carolines me a lot for Joe Biden if he does poorly in New Hampshire
now make a we talked about several months ago. The possibility that,
where's panic among donors. Several months ago the Joe Biden was going to finish forth and I are going to finish for
new Hampshire- was going to be out of money by the time we get through. That
we would stagger his way down to South Carolina and hope for the best right now.
Right now it's looking like Joe Biden
along with Elizabeth WAR. They both have an awful lot to lose in New Hampshire. The only thing
I will say: yes, we have to remember and
sure make a Robert can remain
So this very well. The all of the people
hello obituaries that were written about Hillary Clinton in the days leading up to New Hampshire there's no way she could, when I remember even
I can. Seventy six George W Bush big, my Ronald Reagan. The press was
that he just let me have. It was aren't sorry, nineteen eighty that he was going to get beaten by June
George, W Bush that you can go,
George W.
And eighty eight
losing- and I were coming in third place in Iowa and
people writing his political obituary knew. How
sure saved him- make the second we tell
people what New Hampshire voters are going to do. That's exactly what New Hampshire voters make fools out of everybody.
That's absolutely true, and we obviously experience tat, but having said that, Robert gives, I guess, we're gonna, U Elizabeth Warren
She doesn't do well in New Hampshire. I'm not sure how she goes on, maybe game that out for me and Joe Biden,
White loses all momentum if he fears poorly and the policy too
reflecting what we saw in Iowa. Why thing for
this war, and this is essentially a home game right she's. Just over the border Massachusetts you get the tv as MIKE. Well knows from
Austin into lots of homes in there and I think that question for
in this race is if she doesn't be Bernie Sanders in New Hampshire and she does
in Iowa, where
in the next three or four places. Does she beat Bernie Sanders had a she overtaken and look, I think, for vice present
Biden, it's sort of now or never. I think their recent some strategic. Looking back at the reports that
sources were moved out of some other early states into I well, you have to wonder why
was given the fourth place finish, but to your point,
you ve gotta, make a moment right now. It is time to tear up the schedule. It is time to tear up the the the teleprompter some speeches
go out there and speak from the heart, because, if you don't,
now to the point of them that Boston Globe, New Hampshire Pole
the is, if you see this support dwindling only three days after I was in New Hampshire. What's happened
in South Carolina and
if on a wall as we thought that might not exist by the time we get there. It's a it's a long time before South Carolina
and I don't know how much money they have sound. Just real, quick
jail. I just wonder looking at the Biden showing in Iowa and just the way, things appear to be going he's been
many for seven covered by this president during the impeachment trial and in
anyway way. It shows how fearful president Tromp was Joe
I'd and in others you wonder if some of this stock
we can start getting republicans we're a lot more afraid of Joe Biden, then
people running in the democratic race at Joe bought. Let listen we
I've just sell you personally. We love job Levin and and thought that he was going to do better than he did
maybe he ends up winning and moves forward, but this
a guy who, despite having the love and respect of a lot of people, ran and eighty eight had had a bad ending to that
campaign ran in two thousand eight, despite winning just about every day
debate along with Chris Dodd, still didn't still didn't. They gain traction. There
he met just may not be able to gain traction, and these can,
asked it's it's really hard to say your bid, but my particle he's got a bigger problem right now about his fire wall. I remember back in two thousand and seven
but out lately year. Interim
Michelle Obama Iowa, they were still
concerned about black vote,
is supporting Hillary Clinton instead of
Och Obama
and then Barack Obama one iota and suddenly
louder said: wait a second, this guy just might win. Maybe it's worth the chain.
Joe Biden now is going to face the inverse of that,
if he loses two races, suddenly these candidates, that black voters in South Carolina weren't looking at
that we're going to provide Joe Biden, the firewall. Suddenly
they're going to start looking for other options,
a couple of points and Joe one. Sadly, I have to
to disagree with you on the impact of what we could just pointed out. I think accurately the Hunter
in very small stuff. The Biden, corruption, investigation that has been going on virtually on the other side,
maliciously on the other side. I think it
is heard him a bit because it's out there is a talking point. People ask you about it,
Second point here is New Hampshire is gives you just pointed out the vote
are notoriously cranky an independent and Robert was up there.
In two thousand and eight when Hillary Clinton went to a pancake breakfast and Claremont New Hampshire and broke down in tears, and that gave every
order in New Hampshire. The ability to do something that was almost impossible to do with Hillary Clinton and remained impossible to do access
emotionally, that's a lie
part of what New Hampshire is about. We believe
New Hampshire for a long time. Looking at that state, looking at the voters, Joe Biden,
best shot might be just that. I think going into these final days to access them.
What is even more on an emotional level rather than the political level, and Joe Biden can do that. That is something that is actually equipped to do. I think to two roberts point a little of fuel,
to go. He he is actually a tear up the script kind of guy. He could actually connect
or of an eleventh hour. You know just sort of almost desperation mode in the last few days. In this way.
Talking about
it is a long time in New Hampshire Mean Bill, Clinton proved it. Hillary Clinton proved it, and at this point I think New Hampshire normally tends to be
dependent, but they liked to assert that they are independent, they tend to
If I were, they tend to look at poles and they taught tenders,
have a real satisfaction, go the other way. So I think Joe
Ireland is in big trouble, especially. We believe these last round of poles
the firewall is in danger, but I also think that New Hampshire isn't mode that could surprise and people they liked surprising people. I don't think they like big being disregarded in
sort of under the weight of I was they have been over the last few weeks, and this still could be an operative.
For Joe Biden, but he's gonna get movement. He did act.
Haven't Susan last night, one of those human moments at sea and in town Hall Worry
to a motor about its stuttering was it was a nice moment be also on the trail. Yesterday knew him.
Sharpen his attacks. He knows it is this kind of do or die time. You went after mayor,
you said I gotta respect for Mayor PETE. This guy was the main
of a city of a hundred thousand people a couple of minutes ago,
Bernie Sanders is a democratic socialist. He calls himself that we share. We want a socialist running against Donald Trump. It was clear to me Esther
that Joe Biden his campaign? No, they ve got a move. Now they do, but that's almost the problem with the binding campaign. They chose to go after Sanders and key, so
where, where it, what are you going after? You have fast the binding campaign. From what I hear on the ground, the booty trench campaign has done a great job going after those independence that especially tend to lean Republican who may come out and
they can corral them and that will be a huge blow to the binding campaign because they really they never had a great out. First,
on the ground in Iowa, and they don't really have a great operation on the ground in New Hampshire.
And then what I worry. What I think is going to be. The biggest concern is even if he does
very well in South Carolina he's running on almost empty and the money. So you go into
for Tuesday you have Bernie with problem close to fifty million
Jon, Hamm by then you have Buddha judge with a lot of money, and then you have MIKE Bloomberg, who has countless amount of money, said he's going to be spending there, so I think it's going to be very hard for him to fight that path
then, it's impossible, but it's not lining up for him. Some people learn the hard way.
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MSNBC corresponded and host of the new pact cast into America. In our latest episode we go to Nashville Seattle and all over the internet.
He just how creative some people are getting to keep the music going. What happens when gigs are cancelled? Clubs are closed and school concerts. Arkell
off when people listen to music there,
feeling the emotions and the closeness of somebody else, even if they can't be in the same spaces them virus is keeping us home because you here to cast off the music, the importance of music is to keep our spirits
we're in this situation and, in my opinion, may as well make the best of it subscribe for free. Where were you did your progress.
President trumps impeachment trial ended yesterday, but the vote to acquit was not
I partisan, want, as the White House had hoped it was the vote to convict that was by partisan on article one abusive
Republican, Mitt Romney crossed party lines with a vote to convict
first time in american history of Senator has voted to remove a president of his own party article to obstruct
Congress was straight party line, vote, meaning three key Democrats from swing states trumps, one also voted to Caen
Doug Jones, who is currently in a tough re election battle back in Alabama. Also,
a mansion of West Virginia just in Cinema
Of Arizona here is
Romney, explaining his decision on the Senate floor yesterday
situation is at the foundation of our republic success and we each strive not to lose sight of our promise to defend it.
The constitution establish the vehicle of impeachment that is occupied. Both houses of our kind
These many days we have labour
faithfully execute our responsibilities to it. We have arrived at different judgments, but I hope we respect each other's good faith.
The allegations made in the articles of impeachment are very serious
the senator juror.
I swore knows before. God
to exercise impartial justice
I am profoundly religious. My faith is at the heart of who I am.
I take an oath before God as enormously consequential, so the verdict
is ours to render under our constitution that people will judge us
for how well than faithfully we fulfil our duty. The grave.
Question. The constitution task senators to answer is whether the present
committed and act so extreme and egregious
that it rises to the level of a high crime and misdemeanor. Yes, he did
The president asked a foreign government to investigate. Is political rival, the President
the president delayed funds for an american ally at war
delayed funds for an american ally at war.
With russian invaders. The president's purpose was personal and political.
Accordingly, the president is guilty of an appalling abuse of public trust. What he did was not perfect.
No, it was a flagrant assault on our electorate,
Rights.
Our national security and our
the metal values. Corruption
an election to keep one so
in office is perhaps the
abusive and destructive violation of one's oath of office that I can imagine.
In the last several weeks, I've received numerous calls and texts, many demanded in their words that I stand with the team. I can assure you,
That thought has been very much on my mind. You see I support
a great deal of what the president has done. I voted with
eighty percent of the time, but my
Before God to apply,
partial justice required that I put my personal feelings
and political biases aside work,
to ignore the evidence that has been presented and disregard
what I believe my oath and the constitution demands of me for the sake
part as an end
it would, I fear, expose my
character to histories rebuke and the censure of my own conscience
I am aware that there are people in my party and in my state who will stretch
Strenuously disapprove of my decision and in some
I will be vehemently denounced, I'm sure,
here abuse from the president and his supporters.
Does anyone seriously believe that I would consent to these consequences
other than from at an inescapable conviction that my oath, before God demanded of me? I saw
here, too short, to hear testimony from John Bolton Natalie bigger
I believed he could add context
charges, but all
because I hoped that way
might say
raise reasonable doubt.
And thus remove from me. The awful obligation to vote for impeachment
like each member of this deliberative body, I love
our country. I believe that our
Prostitution was inspired by Providence. I've-
is that freedom itself is dependent on the strength and vitality of our national character. As it is
with each senator, my vote is an act of conviction. We ve come to the fore.
Conclusions, fellow senators, but I trust we have all followed the dictates of our conscience.
Acknowledge that my verdict will not remove the president from office the results of this
set at court, will in fact be appeal.
Higher court,
the judgment of the american people, voters
make the final decision just as the past
Those lawyers have implored my
will likely be in the minority in the Senate. But irrespective of these things with my
I will tell my children and their children that I did my duty to them
to my ability, believing
My country expected of me
only one name among many, no more, no less.
The future generations of Americans who look at the record of this trial. They
not merely that I was among the Santa who determine that. What the president did was wrong,
grievously wrong, we're all footnotes best in the annals of history.
But in the most powerful nation on earth than
conceived and liberty and justice. That distinction is
for any citizen. Thank you, Mr President. Are you the floor?.
And with that of the White House, trumps kids, the Republican Party just began to snap backlash,
against Mitt Romney. The consequences started rolling in almost
mediately Mark Leibovitz. You spoke to Mitt Romney right after he made
His mind: what did he tell you? Well, he told me what,
Do adieu- and I was frankly not surprise, but it was also quite something to hear
let make that decision. I talk to him about an hour before I gave that speech couple things
me one. He was
ass, he seemed Mitt. Romney is known for being just a night's water in his veins kind of guy is doesnt. Not a lot seems to phase him he's
very haltingly. He was clearly very emotional around this decision. Hadn't slept much in a long time, and I think that was reflected in this speech itself. The other thing that struck me was just how deeply he had thought about this. I think people,
the very cynical about this. I think that sort of the nature of how people view politics these days, they'll see
guinea is a bit performative, but I also think that just sitting there too,
get him, there was a real sense, not so much of self justification, but
political consequences for him and that he was ok with it. He knew and even anticipated in that speech that the president was coming.
He was ok with it. He knew
even anticipated in that speech that the president was gonna come right after and his
Are you come right after him here
what kind of noises is going to make what kind of dust this is going to kick up, and yet he did it anyway and I think he's prepared. I think, like you said, for the judgment of history, for the judgment of
faith and eventually did this will subsided. I think he will be remembered more for this, and perhaps anything that he's ever done in his political career
that may be losing the presidency in twenty twelve,
I'll make you and I have known, met man for a long time. I've always had such great respect for him.
One of the things, though
that I've always noticed about a man. It was our personalities of suffering,
FR in many ways, but in one particular walk away.
He's he's maddeningly, cautious and he
especially when, when it comes to politics, he takes
for the most part, the safe rout, the cow
I did route is who he is just like. I'm the guy that jumped off a cliff and then says I figure out how to make the parrot.
On the way down, but
here's what so fascinating about the times we live in
Other person, who is maddeningly cautious regarding presidential, runs through the ears MIKE Bloom work. Why they're? Both data guys
both guys at sit in front of computer screens and look at the data
make the wisest most calculated move any ad in the age of trump
they have decided to go
hence the eyes, for the first time of their life, to take chances to throw
caution to the wind simply but cause
an inner voice emits case because
of our higher calling because of an oath to guide and that's what's different about,
his time said. Yes, we see a lot of people acting worse, but make in this case we see some people actually
taking chances, they would have never taken in normal times. Another tat fell.
Yesterday, was John TEST, her
Who also is in this group, who pushed back, despite perhaps consequences with their constituency,
There are, no doubt, might Barnacle PETE Weiner put it best.
Some people wrote beautifully
Mitt Romney dead and what have you
we're conservatives, lotta people live liberals
and
Pete waiter said he acted honourably and he acted alone. Think that sums it up very
well Joe and your point about the similarities between my Bloomberg Romney. Both data guys, that's how they made so much money in therefore,
professions and businesses, gathering data and employing data in terms of
corrections but data star
at the door of character and conscience, and
his always had both.
Sometimes not very much on display is he would admit to you.
To anyone right now and you as governor of Massachusetts,
deals with the speaker of the House a Democrat all the time you didn't like doing it, but he did it, but the
thing yesterday we bow in watching and listening intently.
It Romney on the floor, the United States Senate was the impact
It is always been there on him, no matter what he was doing, whether it was in business or in politics.
On his face.
His family and his father. Correct.
I think your draw me the three term governor of Michigan in the Sixtys and Seventys Midst, dad
ways very heavily on him and has from really the start of his public career? You will recall that during the presidential,
opponents and he ran in twenty in two thousand and eight two thousand and twelve-
I say that that he would put the word dad on a piece of paper and wood and on a debate lectern before he would go. Do is debates just to remember in the example of his death,
and and look he would say now that he didn't always live up to that end.
Germany was remembered, I think, more than anything as someone who,
a very unpopular thing inside his party in the sixtys, which is to oppose the Vietnam WAR he got on the wrong side of it.
Nixon
side of a lot of Republicans in and look it took him a long time to recover and to be should have thought of well by the verdict of history. So what
it Romany. I think it took him a while. I think this is a late stage of his career that didn't anticipate having, but I think in some
is he had a chance to rewrite the ending of how you'd be remembered and that's part of what he did yesterday. So Susan
obviously, was an extraordinary act of political courage given
climate wherein by thing it's worth stopping and things
why that is an act of Kurds that the frame has so shifted
is that all that evidence we saw in the house trial and everything
We heard the arguments made by the house managers that, although
Other republican senators could turn away and say no
that was not an peaceable offence. It shouldn't be
extraordinary shouldn't. Take courage to do what Mitt Romney did it clearly, then he knows the fall out. He knows what's coming. He already saw yesterday immediately the president's son calling for Mitt Romney to be expelled from the republican party. He knows all that he was come
more with it any went with it because he said he had an obligation to history, the constitution, to God and to his children, but I do think it's worth stop.
In considering why that is now concern
extraordinary to consider it
your evidence and devote to convict on one of those articles. As Mitt Romney said, he took an oath to do this job and he did it did he was pressure to stay on the team and he said I am on the team. I'm continue. I say he gave a speech
that when I was listening to- and I was hoping that it would change
PETE some minds up there. It was them inspiring, but what I really
was very quickly. Is it won't, and it's not only because of the attacks, the twitter attacks, the president's attacks and everything
It goes on that he was willing to bear. I think the thing that will probably hurt wronged me, the most is the people who knew better and are angry at Republicans, who are angry at me,
For being so, principled and making them not look good because they work and they they have been angry at him several times since he came into the Senate, this one
it's going to stick with them and that's what's really so sad and unfortunately they can't just admit. Therefore, their failings is that they are angry it right
for standing up for what was right. When you know
I spoke with somebody close to met yesterday
We close to who said that one of his biggest concerns as he he didn't want to put people any worked
We have great respect for and who we genuinely like his colleagues, you didn't want to put them in a bad position.
Already knew that he had no choice. He had to do what he had to do.
In the end- and so we did it by
also for a lot of people,
Mitt Romney a win.
You ask them how concerned is met is concerned, but at the same time
he's only say on the floor of the Senate. What
Three other are almost every other Republican is safe.
Alone at night about Donald Trump operative.
And at night when the cameras-
Our turned off and the microphones areaway Mika Ivy Mitt Romney, really is speaking more for
Republicans in the Senate. What they truly believe, then Donald Trump. They were just too scared to say it
when the lights were turned on in the Senate, when they
cameras or on when the microphones could pick up their voice and broad
everything he was saying was so basic and fact based. But for some reason, given that climate, it was stunning d,
conservative writer Windsor Man rights. This quote Romney did the unthinkable. He told the truth about a man
who never tells it on purpose. At the twenty. Sixteen
public and national Convention, TED crews implored Republicans to vote their conscience. That is what Romney dead
And what has made him a heretic and his party Romney voted to convict the president. His fellow Republicans voted to convict themselves
and Joe mentioned PETE Winner, he writes for the Atlantic, wrote this
This also needs to be said. Romney's views are not all that rare among his republican colleagues who know in their hearts that what trumped did was inexcusable and indefensible.
The crossing of a once unthinkable moral and ethical red line had a democratic
President done the same would easily have cleared their bar for impeachment and removal from office
What is rare, however, is Romney's courage. He acted honourably and he acted alone willing, so
Robert gives, you guys obviously ran very hard. The Obama
and pain ran very hard against Mitt Romney in two thousand twelve, a lot of progressive yesterday suddenly found there
faction in Wiesbaden for Mitt Romney
Your reaction, though, if you listen to that speech, will I think you're really struck and in March report
your profoundly struck by how he is guided by his faith and how he spoke about that
struck by how he is guided by his faith and how he is,
look about that and you can just you, can both sea
and here the emotion in delivering this speech and understanding the gravity of what he's doing it was
remarkable moment in a play.
Gold trial that has not,
that many remarkable moments this played out very quickly. It was. It was done with the speed that nobody thought would have
and they are at the end. It didn't change the
outcome, but it absolutely change the tone. The tenor of what the Senate left
with an end, were really struck by who Mitt Romney became yesterday. Hey guys, Willie guys here this week on the Sunday sit down. Podcast music, superstar, Cheryl Crow, her journey from a small town in Missouri to the top of the music world, get the podcast now for free wherever you download yours.
Welcome back the morning Joe, it is forty nine pass the hour joining us now, president of the council, on foreign relations and author of the book of world in disarray, Richard House also with US editor and
The economist sentiment in better is great to have you both with us to smoke.
Richard last let let's talk about the present state of the union address and specifically for and
policy. Let's talk about what he said. I guess warm.
Fourthly, what he did not say your take bodies.
Was he did a victory lap, a raw isis trade.
Didn't say, though, is really interesting. One was any other aspect of U S. China relations was essentially ignored. North Korea, which figure pro
currently Joe a year ago in the state of the union was not uttered
this time around. He talked about trees, but never to
about climate change, which was
another measure, and then Russia, Ukraine, lest I check that there is still a war going on there should. This was a very selective
the world inside the stick. The state of the union, but the most interesting thing might have been going forward was also what one thing he did mention, which was Afghanistan
and if I were an age maker, I would think the odds that year,
she further troop reductions unconditionally out of Afghanistan. I think the president wants to go into the election with a talking point,
only did he get american forces out of the Middle EAST, but he did
also american forces out of Afghanistan
driven by the same instinct. Barack Obama had getting forces out of Iraq quickly.
For his re election campaign that didn't actually turn out very well. Let's talk about the Middle EAST Peace Plan, Richard
It was talked about a week ago. The present at a press conference of Benjamin Netanyahu is
any chance that any part of this peace plan will ever be implemented.
But not as a peace plan and not as a negotiation? I think the danger is that chunks of it could be implemented unilaterally by Israel, so it doesn't become a peace plan. It becomes a real
lady. That's the danger and already were beginning to see signs of pushed back. If you read our it's this morning, what was straight,
into me in January. We're talking about it was how
flashpoint suddenly are beginning to emerge. You have
cars running over soldiers in Jerusalem, three per
stands killed and in the West Bank, Israel going down
into Syria to attack the missile sites, their Israel going into Gaza to attack us that again, you ve got this code on coal plants
coming out of Washington, which bears
no relationship to the challenges in the region, but the come back to where you began. No, this is a political plan. It is not a peace plan,
then? The economist says it cover on the corona virus? How bad is it it's pretty bad, it's
hey Man in China, and I think the big question is you know a how far
and go beyond China and be what is the impact of what is happening in China, and I think, in both cases I pretty struck when the we care in the? U S, how
little attention is being focused on how the markets that kind of shrugging this off now,
I really don't know yet. I think the prism through which many people are looking at this is the prison of saws, which you know was the virus that hit China and that part of the world in two thousand to two thousand three,
very different now just to give you a couple of numbers in China
much more connected to the world, the falling back,
banning flights. Two hundred thousand people left cheek
came into China by air every day, as a footstool number of
well it's also a sixteen percent of the world economy compared to four percent, then so I think
nothing much more a fact, and I also think we are far from seeing speaking in China and all of these factors-
closed after the new year for a week, or so this could be several weeks and if so
weeks or even a couple of months. The hit in the world economy is very pretty hot and people going to start getting worried petition. If it spread
a lot more outside China and richer part of that concern, as you pointed out, is that people are sure what to believe in terms of numbers that come out of China does not have a record exactly being completely transparent, giving
I assume that the number of people who see their habit or probably will come down with it. What the numbers being put out a way way way low when it could be a factor of ten, could be a factor of twenty five in which
in far larger second, what what the biggest question is. Literally a lot of people can come down with it. The real question is: how severe is it,
insufficient it easily bill. Is it because the viruses that leap
or is it the lack of access to adequate high duration to mass? What have you so?
since we don't know the other thing, I would say we don't know everything about the disease,
about the economic advantage spot on it's gonna be more disruptive. Supply chains is the political head in China. The most.
Kristen conversation to me is what implications will this have persuasion paying? What would this due for the Communist party? You can't consolidate power, the way
and then suddenly say not on my watch. This is on his watch like it or not. Clearly they
very sluggish, and I think that would be really interesting and also what does it do to the China relationship with the rest of the world, as I think this could well view will assign a phobia than is rising. Sat me in this country and if you have people pour out foreigners from from China, and you have
For several weeks, a couple of months, you're gonna see people really waiting worrying about what's happening in China and kind of standing back from that. So I think, there's a lot more to come, and finally, Richard extraordinary moment among many during the soothing need address, was the venezuelan opposition leader in the room in the gallery president, pointing to him and then inviting him for a visit at the White House
promise. We don't have a plan here.
They are in the gallery, is in the gallery, he's not and then as well are. Meanwhile, you have the majority government stronger at the New York Times during a very interesting story. A couple of days ago we did. The regime is a beginning.
Loosened up selectively, there's a degree
support for the regime from a particular the upper classes. So we can support
Meanwhile, you ve got what four million refugees
overwhelming the neighborhood, and I don't see a way where MR guided goes from the gallery of the? U
Congress into the streets and have real
our inside Venezuela
that's right and he's not gonna do much. Ruins well is sitting in the gallery in Congress. It's a year ago, that was
more, like the longer it's gone on the harder. It is to see that so it's one of those things that
good photo up in, and they say, but I'm not sure, is really doing much later
maintain Betters Richard House. Thank you both for being on this morning, going around the world with us since to pay its crusades this week in my pocket, wise is happening all be talking with computational biologist, Carl Bird Strong, but what we do and don't know about the corona virus once they,
things get out there, and this is kind of sort of a key aspect of misinformation, and this information is the once they're out there. They really
take off and they spread, and so Jonathan Swift said several hundred years ago, that
switch flies and truth comes limping after and and that's what happens on the internet, of course, that there is a more recent version.
Which is known as Brando in his book. They cemetery principle, and it says the amount of work that it takes to clean up both does an order of magnitude larger than the amount of work it takes to create it
so we definitely see that sort of thing happening with all kinds of conspiracy theories, including this one around the virus that this week on. Why is this happening? Search for? Why is this happening wherever you're listening right now and subscribe
Transcript generated on 2020-04-21.