Hey guys, just see. Now we ve moved the podcast two once a week to give my dad. more time he's not feeling well it'll, be released. every Monday for the foreseeable future. Welcome to the Jordan Be Petersen Podcast. This is season for episode. Thirty five in this episode. Dad is joined by Lord Conrad, black Conrad Black is a canadian born british peer and former publisher of the London Daily Telegraph, the spectator Chicago Son Times the Jerusalem Post and founder of Canada's National Post a columnist and regular contributor to several publications, including the National Review online, the new I turn the national, interest american greatness, the New York son and the National Post, Lord Conrad Black and my dad discuss his very interesting life how he got into history, education, the newspaper business living in Britain, his experience, Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan

car separation become a tutor and more. This opposite brought you buy helix sleep, my favorite mattress company, I've had it several time, sleeping with travel, mostly stress and since I had a baby, everything makes me up at night. He looks super comfortable mattresses and they deliver to your door and they A ten year warranty and you to try it out for one hundred knights and return it if you don't like it their company has made it totally risk free, to try their mattress. You gotta he likes dot com, Slash, Jordan, take their two minutes likewise and though Matthew to a customize, mattress soft, medium firm. They even a version that splits their mattress in half. So you and your significant other can have different types of mattresses. on each side of We ve been really picky about mattresses because of the aches and pain that came up having arthritis, I don't have arthritis anymore. The helix mattress is

comfortable enough that I never have any kind of body pain. After sleeping on it, I used to buy hoppers. That's also not necessary with these mattresses. Helix is as offering two, two hundred dollars off all matters orders and too free pillows for our listeners had helix sleep, dot, com, slashed, Jordan, that's helix, sleep, dot, com, it's locked Jordan for up to two hundred dollars off and to free pillows hello, everyone, Conrad Moffit Black Baron, black Cross harbour K. C s g born twenty fifth August. Nineteen. Forty four the Canadian born newspaper publishers,

finance year and writer, he's the author of ten books, mostly due with Canadian in american history, including by freeze of Quebec Premier, Maurice Duplex, see and you as president Franklin, Roosevelt, Richard Nixon and Donald Trump, As well as to memoirs he's currently writing a political here, three of the ancient world, concentrating primarily on the Romans and the Greeks has far was businessmen. George Montague Black Second, who had said If it can holdings in canadian manufacturing, retail and media, businesses through part owners Of the holding company Ravenstein Corporation, in nineteen. Seventy eight two years, their fathers death Conrad and is older brother Montague, took majority control of Ravenstein over the next seven years they sold off me of their non media holdings, to focus on newspaper publishing. that controlled, Hollingford International,

once the world's third largest english language newspaper empire, which published today. Telegraph in the UK, the Chicago, sometimes the Jerusalem Post National in Canada and hundreds of community newspaper where's across North America. We're controversy erupted over the sale of some of the companies. Assets is one of It is most recognisable and influential figures, and is known many of the great political actors and cultural figures of the last half century my great pleasure haven't as a guest. Today, thank you very much for agreeing to talk with me today, not avail. Jordan, always a pleasure to speak yeah. Well, it's very nice to see you again. It's been a couple of years since we had the pleasure of speaking, and so I am glad we have this opportunity, even though, mediated by electronics mischief. So let I wanted You biographical essentially I'd like to walk through your life, and so, let's start as far back as we,

and tell tell me about your childhood. If you wouldn't, what stands out for you in relationship your parents and well well, I was born in Montreal my Parents move here to trot out when I was so very young, not even in Europe, and them. Just at the end of world war. Two and and we we lived in what was then just the edge of metropolitan trotted beyond us- were farms, and that was up for those their future, no trot of it. What were at right, after the beg you Avenue, passes York University gland encompassing the granite club, and christian school it just beyond. That was where we live Was the outer limited the city and in terms of the built up areas, and so there weren't many

people around here the visit with in the neighborhood? So the result was that ice spent more time. I think that was the beginning of the television air. Everyone had a television set that they just got it in the last year. there's no only a few channels on air and for the most part you at idleness funny? in a sitting on top of the receiver or arab antenna, review and then, as I spend a lot of time reading, and that was how I, throughout my interest in history and I said, reading about new dressing, historical personnel my father? Although it was a successful business, man had a very accomplished academic as far as you want, but that was in the thirties and his father came under great financial pressure. So much my father became chartered accountant and the theory that

there was he put up no such thing as an unemployed chartered accountant and in those days, if people really had to think in terms of how could they, how could they do things that made it as likely as possible if they would be able to make an income and provide the omens afford to get married and provide for families, Yet it was a much more financially pressurized than it is now, and that may be graduated nineteen thirty seven and that we were starting as a society to recover from the depression by them, but that there are still huge numbers. when employed here to set aside is academic interest, but without setting up he was a particularly those particular fortune and adding him apart from anything else, as as a parent who incur rich that historical interest, a new, rather a lot about many of the things that I that I took an interest in early on and then is it

a really remarkable gesture. My parents took my brother's. Just the two of us in the family took my brethren myself to Britain in nineteen fifty three at the time of the coronation and anyway, get away toward around all these monuments, we still have more damage in London we're still very evident in some way we saw But the war was like from much closer than anyone experienced in North America and, and I we were- I remembered ass- he s very young people, do remember. Visiting the Duke of Wellington House Symbolic, copied things like this. and so I always had an interesting history was encouraged by my parents. My father in particular

and- and that was that with that of, I think that was the only thing that was pretty thing, if not exactly noteworthy a bit different from most of the people I went to school with because they live closer into town and add more social, then the night it. so you speak of your father. Only by the sounds of it, it sounds to me like he was an encouraging figure in your life from a very young age is at a reasonable presumption, yes nights. I remember both my parents very fond of my father and the scenario would want to four of these risks. Into too much, but later on, he became at times a slightly depressive personality and and his career was something of an anti climax eat. He did very well and and made it so

forget it madame of money and he had a. He was working with. I mean with slash for a very famous canadian industry was a p Taylor and in the brewing business, nervously chief executive of what was then the largest. What one of the largest brewing companies in the world would certainly bludgeon. Canada gives called canadian berries limited in those days, and then he headed disagreement on policy with Mr Taylor and he said look instead of them instead of having an arrogant this idea. I've done this job not for ten years, and I and I don't need the salary on my own. I don't need it to live in the lab become accustomed to so I will retired has probably time for change after ten years you do whatever you want,

with a company, and we remain friends and demonstrate our relations in that's what happened, and they remain friends said today that the end of his life and about so hee hee, hee, hee retired, at the age of forty, and he was a well to do many. We didn't black for anything in the material wet, but the balance was like nearly twenty years was an anticlimax. He just said in this house and read and saw a steadily slow Steadily declining number people and an eighty just never did anything, particularly after that I mean that should charge. I got a job at the south for me to send wooden, wouldn't serve any purpose anyway. It was, it was predict

the enthused about it, but someone like that. It's a I've, found a perfectly good thing and often a very renovating thing to change careers. But but I'm sure you would in your experience, no this don't believe the same thing. It is a bad thing to simply do nothing to sit in a rocking chair about that leads to a steady and accelerated level of decline and unfortunate. What happened to my father many. He was sixty five when he died, but better at which much has not really been lottery ticket nowadays better but it was an anticlimax, but nobody even always was an interesting and I would even even after I left, I moved out of the house to go university. When I was sir

I was only eighteen and apart from that from one year, I didn't live with my parents again, but I wasn't trodden much to banks and- and I was saw them alive- and in the end it was always interesting, always had a good relationship. I had a somewhat turbulent period, my teens and looking back on it. I can see that my parents treated me with greater patients and- and probably I would buy, read their position and a better I believe that that was just phase in our last at the last five years. parents died early. Only ten days work the the last ten years you couldn't have been more court. You don't I'm curious about your father, because I'm I'm I'm curious psychologically about the role that farmers in particular play in relationship to encouraging their children, which seems

the primary paternal rule and so when I see someone who is successful and and and new I suspect, in some senses, intrinsically rebellious in their central spirit. Maybe that's wrong, I'm always cure. but their relationship with her father mean used, to read early, you are reading history. He obviously did he did it which books your way to guide you reading. How did that all is sometimes he in particular. He gave me when I was thirteen. He handed me a book and they said obviously had sent for me to tell you what to read, but I do recommend. Listen if you just read it

your pages, and I think you will want to continue, and it was a G Mcdonald's book Napoleon and his marshals, two people interested in a balance, a very famous book and, for example, one of the great terms on the poet David Chandler Campaigns, Napoleon Bucket thirteen The pages of the tremendous work and scholarship and very well written in the in the forward credits, e g met them and and people who write about the pulling up- it's a tremendously readable but and and and ended. It gave me a huge interest in the problem, but I've kept up here I mean after volume, You feel you know enough about somebody better better about it. It was a great them. It was a great encouragement and incitement and and confirmation of the in transit interest and studying these very interesting

personalities of the past and aided a number of things like that end in sight, the different fields another when some years later of two or three years later, he gave me a copy of it Nancy methods, pursuit of love, nazi novel, but about real people, but the name, change and and it it was a particular status. Action to make in later years, when I was living in Britain and Germany, the daily I got my mouth a lot of these people. Maybe Nancy Method unfortunately died, but that her sisters just Devon sure I knew and the young lady Mosely, the wit of Strasbourg Muslim, fascist. Lately I met her, and just to permit figure, was married to communist, very eccentric bridge, so wide gap in their political views and Nancy Method

yourselves with tremendous sir torrid romance with one of the most promising figures in the entourage of General De Gaulle and when he was the president of the republic and and and proud of that and then says to show these book. I just sit there stood particular, but that they were tremendously readable, interesting books and they did lunch my interest in different fields it he did that the number of times, but he was never oppressor work. or a dogmatic about actually quite satellite member room. My parents took us an Easter holidays. Nineteen fifty facts. I was ten years old, my brother's four years old it out to the West coast by train and back, but but we got around a bit on the West Coast.

And on the train. My father gave us a reward. If we would memorized Lincoln's addressed at Gettysburg, that's only ten cent was. It was said that hard memorizing and we did but about it, did inside my interest in Mister Lincoln. Universities have one of the great and arresting figures about in history as well. So yes, he did that there are. You put me in mind: is that their data If this was she focal point of our discussion, I could identify good many other things, but I say I said those ones. And how I do I'm on the Nancy met from inside the house that is referred to in them? A pursuit of love is one that they love to go to because, unlike their own, has it wasn't dead. after it wasn't bad eccentric. British rural nobility is terribly uncomfortable as without real, hot water and and and amended

It was just a very comfortable has sent from eating and so on, and it turned out that a friend of mine rented it and we went out there to lunch victims and it was at midnight. I couldn't explain it in a way that would be of any interest. Anyone was their other, my wife, but it, but it was as if I'd been there before from every river It was just a very interesting connection asked how old were you when you started to read seriously. I started When I was nine or ten, I remember reading I remember. Reading the first volume of general the girls war members when they were first published English they're, the ones begin? All my life, I have thought of France, and certainly and its beautifully written by Lambeth ago was a wonderful Reddy's, not always historically reliable, but political memoir swear. They are in the same could be said to MR churches, but he is a lovely writer

and so from now on, I was I wasn't writing made for a while. I read that boys book of the navy- and I think I got we went through party boys. Nice thing for approximately one month when I was seven or eight. But I move on to the history Navy, some sports figures like TED Williams, or something like that, and then I got it I got into yesterday when I was known stated that, after that. So how much? How much are you reading when you were a kid and say night? Well, I wasn't a faster, but I was returned to read so when I read something attended, remembered love and a couple hours a day. Every day little more and we get when would you

there before you went to bed? Did you have a routine is pretty much out of their homes, but to do my homework and worse and television programmes. I watch that I like, but I wasn't one of these young people is. It was just stop glued in front of a screen every every free moment, though eight the allotted youngsters nowadays are with video games and hangs out. I was like the media, it is possible and I look Jordan is you and I know there There are hundreds of millions of people in the world. It is sat staring the television set over, but I am, and they're all as long as we had television, urban people have been thoroughly captivated by I was always rather more choosy and programme men. I, like infrared things like war victory, see United,

I am that the Eu S David, I was worried series. I know that serious, it's a godsend with Richard Rogers Music was really taken from Bog Durban, powerful beginning showing the blue aerial shots of the Pacific fleet these with colossal Wade, moving or butter, and some of the humorous programmes like the honeymooners, Jackie Greece. I, like better a break I would know a programme to watch and your watched for half an hour and then go back reached. An average sit there waiting for whatever kidnapped and we who, up all night with with flashlight under the first reading, not all night, I, but often a little better than it has to be said that my parents were not overly an authoritarian and was relatively large has cited. My mother would come at once in the course of night and make sure everything was fine, but I

I normally you're coming, but in any case they didn't get predictably excited about about my reading with a flashlight. the correctly assumed the nine ten or eleven year old fell asleep any lesser then, when he felt like it any idea what it is about history in particular that attract you, because, obviously you you have an intrinsic interest in it. You didn't even gravitate towards fiction when you were a child, you, u gravitate towards nonfiction in history, pretty fast. So what does this tell us a little bit of fiction in University and when I started taking as one does I'm an. I find I found that with my arm sons, a daughter and an ear, you use the upset, you suddenly become interested in right it and he read a lot He wrote then you're under next year. So that way you I read a huge number of novels by fear.

its novelist and is now. Is that what you did you'd find a novelist? You really liked and then read everything and then move on to do some one else. They basically and especially the America, Scott Fitzgerald, Ernest Hemingway, John Steinbeck and so on. and the latter two were alive. Reading about reading the work, and them. but but but but I got into others, but not as comprehensively men. I think I read for five the books George failure maybe the most well united, number of factory in the media, the obvious ones, and so what? What was it about him? street. You think that the detracted you so much and so young, because

Many em in the personalities I was reading about were terribly interest in an extraordinary careers and it ended it started to give me an the sands. I assure you of your view. You may you, in your view, is making to psychiatric case something but subsets identified at all would say man like Napoleon. It's just that in his career, you see, points were absolutely everything was at risk and he persevered Tesla and points where you heap. He was your fortune had not smiled upon him and ended. Did things looked terribly bleak and then suddenly things up about now? It was a revolutionary time, unlike Canada, in the fifties and Sixtys, when you could scarcely

less revolution was and- and I did but Didn t the pattern of events where people's fortunes change quickly and in both directions Of course Napoleon ended up in Central Asia, but about term he actually attempted to commit suicide. Africa back from Russia and an end. Maybe we were referring earlier to Abraham Lincoln there were there were moments where everything appeared to be terribly bloom, he appeared to be a failure. Was it was widely marked for a variety of reasons, including as physical appearance, which which photographs is actually rather impressive, that term about it

appeared to be hopeless and that he was consigned to being a a failure who read who had tried to prevent the break up of this country unsuccessfully and had propagated a war that was not successful and and of course it all turned, and and and yet you you, you end up appreciating the qualities of these people, both those to emulate knows to try to avoid Mr Lincoln's case. It's a particularly striking example because it is almost impossible to find something negative to say about him. He was a self made man, but none of that shipping us itself made people up now. He was. Genuine intellectual but an out of date, and

and urban, who never with any of the pomposity dogmatism of some installations and any he he he was always said, rather than angry at the many betrayals and disappointments, he suffered and while he was rather morose, man in some way is splendid sense of humour it terribly difficult life and had two cents day as boys and and this tragedy did not. These tragedies in afflictions didn't, Didn't compromises ultimate sense of weapons? and he was He was really a remarkably admirable character, as well as the extremely effective states, and of course he will. He was a wonderful words method menu. We were talking about the gettysburg address. I noticed that when I first read it under the inside

to memorize the can, for example, where he said. Then. fondly away, I know said them for those who give here gave their lives, that that nation, Let me just to use the same word is now in the bourbons and sentence slightly artistic and second a nine year old, when he said the fondly do we hoped fervently to pray that this mighty spirit of warming speedily pass away a minute that is in fact the line, a poet, eighty buzz a remarkable words and you you are noticing not the way that words. after this? Well, when you're reading History- not not as well as one does after been practice, but yeah yeah. I started in others and then started to look fortune

sure and all right, so you are reading well invents well in advance of your years. What was it for you going to school. When you were, let's, let's go when you are again before he went university where I was it? You know I always did the necessary too, to be on the same wavelength. Fuels your French. I didn't want to be thought of as well as it might be thought of the cycle. Accenture. I didn't want to be thought of as an odd burst and unfairness it is one of the other students were interested in one. Things I went to relatively. I guess relatively good school, Imagine, wiped them very much better, but I loved in earnest about like still very much, but them is an end, a member in nineteen, fifty eight and thirteen and

who is well known that I was interested in France. Wounded disturbances came in the spring of this year at the end of the fourth republic. They her class teacher, asked me a byword business was this, was on the front pages of newspapers and lead the news. Every night shouted return to go from Colombia. Did you not under threat of the revolt by the army in Algeria, and the teacher asked me if I would give a five minute come and on the following day, so I did and I'm your eyes careful to train not be purposes and not get into obscure things, and I don't mean to put on the heirs of somebody with any, in fact great authority in these matters but I was. I was flattered that he asked in right and I made an effort to try and make it interesting and Anna was appreciated. Now,

It was what was one of those little experiences in life than is very positive and reassure. To me that this is my classmates didn't think I was just a coat and basic rights, by the two when everything away somewhere. What's going on in France,. I will end in Canada and Britain and the United States, yet you know you didn't: have the army threatening to return to the capital by parish, chew can take over the country. and everybody going out into the country a hundred and twenty miles to talk to a retired general about whether we wanted to take over the government when the day this year we wouldn't have the English speaking countries so do you remember anything of your ambitions at that time? Well, Here, I must say I was somewhat influenced by my father's meal year The Toronto in those days was, if I'm

said without, I hope, sounding like an old dowager, something a terribly plain, austere place. It did. There wasn't any flared what it had nice residential areas, but but it wasn't but look city at all the other until the first subway was opened in the midst of this, all the wires were about grounds creosote soaked blackened telephone calls everywhere we had down the thick plasters wires, and an inordinate amount of that old, sorted, victorian, reddish, but not red brick or of the colored Queens part, but with with the dust of years time it apart from a few individual buildings like the World Bank of Commerce

for example, in that's good all and some others that there were many nice looking buildings downtown. It was not a nice looking city though it might. Railways are let alone New Yorkers up and down and enter the other. It was a virtuous place than it was a terribly sober place. You couldn't go to the cinema and send it there was. the Sunday newspaper now, of course, was just a boy and I didn't drink or anything, but you get older people My cousin two main world have shown that they want to go with a date. I had to go to a hotel defined a restaurant, but was licence it was that only change with John Robertson Sixes and them. So it is my father's friends businessmen. As far as I could see

Where were the only people that had any sort of style, Mr Taylor and Mr Macdougall them Colonel Philip seriously? Chancellor the university that he was associated with them in and others who were friends is like John best. So, unlike the heads from style ahead Sinclair and they were wealthy but better taste for were in that they know they didn't get excited about. It was tat of an attractive thing to aspire to be wealthy and. and enjoy it, but in a peaceful way I mean Mr Taylor built the jacket club was just a bunch of milk wagon horses and fix traces till it took him, took it over and fix it up and you have not made it a great horse racing average, and so are you what sort of attracted to the idea of getting into business in a way that I can do. I get

as mayor arrangement networks and standard of women, but but all always ahead. If not exactly an academic can press certainly up an interest to study history and potentially writes about other It took me a long time to summon the courage to write him. Yes, oh you covered your interest in history, and now we ve delved into a little bit into the origins of you're in in business. So that does leave that third issue. To some degree, so let's go to the to the time when went to university use. You said you read a tremendous amount of fiction and university. What did you major in and in what was it like for you? How do you remember university experience a very funny guy. I went first to Ottawa admitted they took our new person and them I had a somewhat term rum, bus, just career and my store and change.

A number of times and finally I came if I may just back up slightly Sesar, the if anyone is interested in my story. This is an interest It's not for me to say whether it is in the atmospheric interesting, but in great thirteen. I finally concluded that these schools were so in, combat and most of the teachers in them were so incompetent and, in addition, militia someone that I discovered that you could in fact right. You're metrics relation examinations on your own. You didn't have to do it in school, silent for and my father? But this is what I was going to do in February of my last year, and I accept that in those it's. U at nine examinations near the pass them all or you didn't matriculate. So again I did. I was really taking over a labour but

admittedly examinations were written on the old armoury on you, first, the avenue where the road just immediately where's devised at all, it's our Supreme Court building, but there wasn't armoury earth and several hundred others abolishes mainly older people Amy and each day put down five dollars. We can write examination. I worked like a beaver to prepare for those examinations and I pass them all and if you buy me a kind of personal recollection, the way my father's has worked, he stayed up late, There's a habit. I got me. Let me state up late me slapping me: you got a lot done at their ease. He was operating in a slightly different clock must be well in those days. The post office delivered the mail, but perhaps in a body

thirty in the morning one particular the spring of nineteen sixty two, my mother got and she saw this letter from the Ministry of Education addressed me, so she surmised might be my results, so she brought it. I opened my said: well, it was a scrape by fifty and fifty one, but I passed everything I had matriculate and I'm eligible for university, though I won't get another Miguel Toronto, which is what I wanted it, but Bogan that one so she disappeared and as something that was unheard of and said that the boat. Minutes to nine in the morning. I heard the UN's mistake about footfall Father in his dressing, gown stern there he said I congratulated extent chickens and he went back to bed now it sounds absurd, but it was very moving experience, a video. I congratulate yes, said well, you know if you ve been more than

culture than I thank you for that. He said to regulations Was it that means alone? What are you? What are you? What do you think motivated him to congratulate you on that point and where do you think it meant so much to you? I had great. We had our differences nurse there's not not, for years, but we were as one day soon if one does have differences, and sometimes and then, but I he was a very, very intelligent man made at the end and a good man, and I greatly respect and admiration for him and for India. Congratulate me in a way that wasn't perfunctory, it wasn't. You know well down if you Yeah one hand: courage you something that if it were with the way, he said it imparted of seriousness to it. That made it clear to me that he thought that what I had done was a major achievement and the fact that he thought it

was not only confirm my view that it was in fact something achievement, but the fact that he thought it was a major achievement coming from a very successful and about which he was, and it was, after all, the principal male figure in my life, It was, it was a milestone, and what do you think made that accomplishment can only worthy of both memory. I note what did you do for you now you have a lower gave acted. You are causing some trouble in in high school. You look in a way it legitimize the comparative hell rays. of my late. I still years it's or wipe the slate clean, the score it end of the game, is you win you graduate? so you were the rebel without a cause, but I'd. Maybe that's because at least the rebellion ended me. Still in one piece and end and in the debate

sensible shape. Morally, you I mean in terms of better my ability to defend my conduct as a whole, not every part of it. Right right yeah. So you draw nonsense and end the foolishness that then I had my full share of it for people at it, it ended well, and it was looking to do is get embarrassing say this in particular that this remove in time, but it actually want simply achievement for somebody. You haven't been in the habit of really concentrating, not much stalwart, buckle down study. All of these things and then I had some some good stories on. In my overall average, with Buzz Buzz, not that an end, I didn't do it I will pass it all away. I did was, sir with it wasn't achievement nightmare sounds like that's when you learn to actually do some academic work. That's right. I think I think that is, and I think that is absolutely right in that's good,

good preparation for university, because you do a lot better universe. If you can work on your own. I mean when I especially when you, when you're getting close to the exam snapped really swat other. Yes, yes I mean I didn't work in high school and I learned work in university and there is a big difference in it was very much worthwhile learning to work and ok. So you of two university and you have. I have civic reasons task. You bought university. I've had discussions with the number of people recently about their university memories, some young people I'm including you and me park, who is a refugee or an escape from North Korea who just for years at Columbia, New York, which was a dream of hers and described to me as a complete waste of time and money, and when I MR on that insisted that she didn't have one course or one professor worthy of note, which was terribly shocking to me, and then I follow that up with Rex, be who went to Memorial University in the nineteen fifties and late nineteenth fifties and had nothing but paused.

things to say about his experience, so for me when I went too far, I went to us college to begin with, but I had an excellent professors there. They taught me they were admirable. P. They paid a lot of attention to me unto my friends, I learned to write. I learned to work. I learned what I learned. and how to buckle down and and and beast is about my academic pursuits. So for me, all the memories. Almost all the memories of Sir certainly Minority University education and my graduate education for that matter were positive, so but things may have changed since then, but your experience, I imagine that young lady from alike must these, Well known american universities just gone to pieces, but about maybe that maybe the gradual departments- you better- I don't know, but I imagine she at least enjoyed living you said it should learn something from that any such a vital said it. But the am I a. U. You actually said

so for me very nicely, put me in mind of a couple of things as an undergraduate. They didn't counter professor, who did have a very profound impact on my ability to spoke. Something's end and mine and my interest in certain subjects at you, even lower forever homey Griffiths. She would now in early eighties. I think butter chew, she's, a specialist in akkadian studies with very friendly with the law Governor General Romeo, the blunt the term is, she was very fine lecture and also very kindly and sociable person, and then I got to know and andor and cheat sheep is, she did help focus mean certain historic areas, but what what happened after I graduated from Carlton,

as we were. I was nineteen sixty by a newer. We were getting into they sort of run up to the centennial and the YO, especially in order there was great This asunder by culture the cement, and it is clear that things are starting to really get similar and unpredictable ways in Quebec and predictable politically, and it was in the autumn of this year that in the guise of seeking a majority Mr Pearson, in his advisers, something I got to know quite well subsequently, call of an election in a real motive was to bring in strong federalists from Quebec. had never really replaced. Mr sailors, they federal leader in Quebec,

and that was when Pierre treat Owen. John Challenger, Peltier, another's gimme and- and they were studied, observed, give it to meet this challenge to federalism from Quebec, and one thing and do another in the I wasn't sure what I want to do it. For a year I operated. I bought for practically nothing bags, wasn't worth anything from a good friend of mine who Peter quite who had lived. as my sub tin man place and not about my last year when he was working with Murray Survey, the subsequent by the concept of the governor general. But he was in a junior minister, Mr Pearson government, but the first of that ever guard from certain new Quebec to such an and here the little newspaper in the eastern townships about sixty miles east of material

and Norton GO, and I bought a happy interests, not four five hundred dollars, witches. Four hundred and ninety nine and I was morton- was worth commercial, but that's what I did for a while and edit it. And there is a well you, while you were student, you know it was. It was after I finished it. Undergraduate boring, went unto my next university, and and so what happened was that even affected me with interest in the newspaper business? I'd, always had some, because I was interested in me again. Style of some of these famous newspaper owner, similar William, Randolph. First, for example, most Colonel Mccormick on Skype had ended up to a point. Some of the british press is Lord Beaver Bird was alive than in the Lord,

cliff and some others, and about the obviously sitting at least intentions producing an eight page. Half tabloid was a long way from living in San Clemente Mister Hurst famous edge in California, but then it also infected me with The any interest in in Quebec infringe Quebec That was an English paper. You know we were here. Obviously one was in a larger french Amelia. So the upshot of that was that the next year I. Became a last year that level universally french resting cutbacks in it and- and that was a terribly interesting and positively parents. I have to say, even though we were, I think, only fifteen English speaking law

a narrow, english speaking, while students, in effect of there were five hundred or so and in the graduate arch building, where we were talk like they were condemned. The stars of students coming and going on, but whether current been more than fifty of us, who were basically french speaking and in many cases explicitly, principally and and- and it was an entirely positive experience with that- there was no absolutely no ethnic antagonist. I mean people got on well, they didn't, but not for ethnic priests, and I have to say those people. Oliver could not have been more welcoming and pleasant as a group. Bobby said all that I as a very great ever yes, questions to come out of. That is what did your undergraduate career you for you. Why were you motivated to buy this newspaper and

why did you go to a French speaking University for law school? Well, they re my undergraduate drear was the point at which I turned from largely a social operated effectively studying is frankly Jordan think most young men do as undergraduates studying chiefly female anathema am contents. the containers, alcoholic beverages and then I was more successful. The second them first, but but What one got on, then you did you studied as much as read it to up the naming. Gryphus help motivate meat treated is little more than something for you just past years and check the box, it going from first to secondary graduating year. What did I do to do that

is she is she gave me the vision of actually becoming an authority on some part of history and also writing about yesterday, then again so that would be my main answer to personnel the EU, your your last one was was why a french and receive your son was right about the newspaper headlines. Yes, I I was at least since you say cited an end so frankly, my point, Peter wasted look here. I need an editor. This paper, a man here in Ottawa and and then at the end of it, the government changed in Quebec and the union S who now want to places all party won, but MR chance than just seen it and he hired Peter weight as his chief english language assistance was out of it, namely the language section of the budget Your public service, which is a serious position to meet in English trinity of Quebec bad, is about, is an important position and and

kinda, acted extremely well. Mister Johnson was or was it was a very impressive man at that and still think, but he said I, like. I gotta have an editor, but this paper and close the paper. Why don't you via a happy interest from animal SAM and be the resident added everywhere until you decide what to do. one day lead to another he was an alumnus overlap, activate labelling and the number of famous english things work famously brain already. He was, he was invaders. Classmen are building under, but fibres. She's all and then that Michael Maidens and other cemeteries. Now I think the chancellor mammalian arrest is grandfathers, opponents and and others and and so once I got into bed Amelia because

true, I knew I got a little bit into the edges of Quebec politics and I met Premier Johnson and our paper serve the english residents of the vice, bring her back and the subsequent bring your journal Jack Bertrand site. I've gotten I don T know the answer was anything other than a bush or something, but but I got the servants the to the edge of an event that period coming up to ninety six. To seven with the fermentation back, which was, very active, politically, but not coming violent, but that there was an exciting atmosphere and then you also said that you had become aware of newspaper owners approximately at this point, and and so will you just the way they lived in a book I never ever spired that live in the Bin.

oriental monarchical faction, fashion of William Randolph harassment made most famous and caricature them, citizen, Kane What you're, which Orson Welles officially denied having deal with hers, as Time magazine put it, lawyers for Mr William Randolph first, have determined otherwise and prosecuted accordingly met them in a developed along that. Where should I became motivated? Academically then had a reason to move to go back and get involved in this most modest scale, leaving these short just being a newspaper delivery boy, but in a position where I did everything I was the publisher and they added my head. Minuteness chestnut did the actual clerical workers, I saw beer produced a circulation TIM in such as they weren't, I wrote, must have a candidate

As you know, that's where you in writing that do it all right. Then, and then, and then I thought it would be a good idea. to pursue my studies in Quebec in a french university and end up. Peter right held men and indeed then they pay you're allowed his name to standards as a recommendation out an incorrect city in nineteen. Sixty six. If someone appeals for it applies for entry to the last act of the end and one of the sponsors, as the Prime Minister go back eminent and unless it's a joke in disguise, never got past me, seven is going to be admitted and ends and them and ended with an entirely positive experience. But

I understand it was a double and ultimately a triple experience. By elaborate, I really had to learn languages. You can't basic friendship. I spoke graduate voluntary nomes right now. A few words I didn't really know how to put a serious sentence together or speak fluent plain about age, my twenty two I wanted and I wanted to social. I didn't live like a monk and round and inside you really have to pick up and- and So I was learning the language and also it came up didn't ninety six. and when I was in my final year, Glasgow Bishopric Deal erected remain only where the daily newspaper here, albeit small, major nine. Thus, circulation came up for sale on a distressed basis because it that they did.

Over committed to bang oppressed thinking they can sell in a business on the press, the paper they didn't, so they were they restrained and so is Peter waited a third friend of ours, and I bought that paper. So in that space of time I became Here I made a major advance: my academic career, qualified myself, as law graduate get picked up a bit. I miss had a pretty good, solid competence in French and became a newspaper cologne, I believe, I was, the only publisher of a daily newspaper- is certainly no one had ever heard of any who was, at the same time, velocity never met than others, but I heard him anything like that

and so that that was really out of that brief period. The rest impaired with much of the balance might grayer was launched and other you have that that happens to everybody s powers, but it was it widely different pattern. For me, the most, why law yeah I like it yet sir it's the neutral place, does not that I ever particularly desired by a liar, but you never go wrong with it. You know it always helps you as the qualification for whenever you going to do and parts of it already interesting, study, dive the stone, constitutional and international put an end of it. We get Heaven help anyone lying on my recollection, sober Quebec. Civil could get them through, media and war cases, and when it is funny minor bits

were the geisha you get but better, but the other laws brought the others not stuff. It's interesting in. I never Predicary desired to practice. I never did break it. A couple of minimum wage cases were campaign was the defendant and I got got brain really was a labour lawyer to catch me a bit. I did exactly what it Probably the only one that he gazed about that was found by soon at breakfast. Brad I will say that it's been very useful to me. I mean unfortunately, I've had a great deal of legal experience as a year as a client obliteration clinics famous layers and the United States and Britain, but about that bad. That does help you. If you leave, you know something about it, though. The basis of the law does deal infinite so how did you manage you're your career as a publisher and your studies at that point? Well, I was a pretty much man absentee published

I would come there when I couldn't do certain things. I called upon certain advertisers in Montreal Trottel, when I, when I was able to about but a united that, but still no, that was said about nine months before a graduated. After that I was amazed at the Sharon and we start built businesses, Branch Dayton, but more papers, and it grew and grew so the first thing. Bree that you bought. You did you. Did you set up the bulk of the writing. Insomuch time? Are you spending rating in a week at that point, What wonder when I was the resident? A publisher but weekly paper debtors, probably eight or ten hours straight. The main contents, the papers for each week, Amelia it's not that Absolutely sleepily! Here you know the chronicles of that's, not your desk collected editor,

rules of the London times. Now that we have to commit to produce in a Yo Yo gotta you gotta get the paper is mean when people are often curious about what it takes to be a writer, and I mean one of the things that it takes to be a writer, is to write and and to produce constantly and on schedule, at least that's how it seems to me, and it appears that that you had it. You added headline that was continually renewing itself and you had to produce Gandhi come hell or high water? Fundamentally, what you said is very perceptive is now, Maybe there's a reason You know this better. I have millions of breeders in the United States. I write these columns enough for them every week and the arrest, and it's just what you said: it's a deadline that comes up Oliver now some twelve hundred pay a word so that my shredding, but on the other hand the eighty eight he it's a highly competitive field. In Europe,

no one's gonna pay. You have not reached so you have to put down simply add one that still three hundred and sixty five thousand words. No, not a year. He said weekly Yo Yo, you're, a hundred thousand, whereby here to work a year hundred thousand words here right sister and now it never know the new cycles, what it isn't always plenty to write about better, but that got me into their habit. You're, absolutely right, rewriting deadline, and you can't back at the deadline about if I could make a detour here, but. relevant one, as is, as you know, many of your view is whether I was for a time. A guest of the people of the United States and the bureau prisons are ultimately one battle, and I wanted in Ireland and in addition, ultimately, the charge charges retroactively withdrawn, but, and it was, it was an outrage from eight said that, but my what I did when I was there was. I was a tutor.

Students who did not succeed in the programme, the? U S, bureau prisons, as of requiring everyone knows not graduated from secondary school. To do so, and so they have teacher and examinations every month and those who were unsuccess. Send to me, and I recruited other tutors recruited as a former ram head of the two Peter Room of nuclear submarines, my science tutor designed not qualified to do that and for mathematics up ahead of mathematics. Formatted math Alex over large high skill and Little Rock Arkansas was also successful commodities trader, and these were people there were empty. the episode tyres, but the nonviolent things that one's tax case neither was a village fraga newsprint, get you something, but they but their highly qualified people. She saw the three of us were.

We're tutoring newspaper and and and that these people would be sent to us and they would arrive very kind of sullen suspicious over which the conduct of big american criminal legal system with invites and inside and then largely justifies, and I will give them a little speech that They didn't have to do a thing if they didn't want to, but if they wanted to leave their with their foot on the up escalator and an excellent chance to make A good living in a way that didn't leads straight, backed, replace like this. I can help you didn't want that responded. I didn't care, but I was there if I wanted, but one thing I didn't want was for them. Imagine that I was part of this awful system as a bigger victim over the night probably works. I didn't commit any evinced with that. The whole thing turned

They became fully recommended one. Why did that speaking? Why did you formulate that speech? Why did you think it was thus to file, and why did it have a positive effect on on the people that you are discussing it because they had it in that great rich country? If the United States, a man, not socialists, but they had not had a fair deal Most of them had scarcely at any idea of the father was in an egg and from early times their mother earth. Somebody was saint, somebody's gotta get some money, you're gonna be sprayed agenda and they were just cannon fodder and the drug war when they were at the last answer, the last stage of transfer, so some drugget was picked up. They say who where'd you get that problem and I think you're that person and it happened here. The way they were they were cut off. They went to prison terribly over since day. One of my students,

twenty five years for driving a truck loaded with marijuana. It wasn't even a user himself and glad of twenty years and by the way, I'm the one thing I am proud of it in in that same senselessly, my initial graduation for I myself was the all my lad spent two hundred and six or some omitted to take exams. Morton was but they all. graduate. How long were you? How long were you imprisoned in doing this? The three years in two weeks How long did it take after you in prison before you started doing this? HU during and why did you do it right? Oh, you mean ones how how long after I read and presented it, sir, yes, about a month is one of my boxes in the library and they had of educating said look here where we gotta do something with these guys. You just keep failing remained. there's nothing wrong with the right you, but let's try something different set of our teachers. Would you,

and then I would like to answer your question why I gave him a little speech. Circle was hardly speech, but it is still very much said to you, but I said the man was because I I knew that they initially with a guy, was part of this evil system that they hated and- and I had to make them understand that I was one of them and not one of the others. and that wasn't a pretence. It wasn t a falsehood. I was I mean I've. My heart was with the prisoners and not with. You are also selling them something you're selling them literacy as an escape from there, can do that. I'm the sewing and self interest. You know about that. That's that's! As the straight and say it's a trial, yeoman, that's one of the boat and ended, but what I was saying about the mass

and this is going back to what you are saying about meeting deadlines. The American replaced the far too much regulation system- that's that's where it was required. an essay, and so I said I M, right it s and the various topics that were usually use said. Take your pick a base, and some of some of these fellows literally couldn't write work, but they that a mental black they couldn't write a word and the way I got round about my settler will change the subjection you right on this exist, woman you ve ever seen and you can use your imagination. It doesn't have to be such a woman and you can make her up and you and may I will read this so if it'll help you be as coarse and vulgar as

won't use any sexual where'd? You want any way. You want anything, just write, what comes to mind and the end that got them all going nuts have had a mental Gaza. Why the world. Did you take that tack and what made them why in the world, did they trust you and then I have another quest. into, which is, why did they pass? Why were you successful. When the, when the other teachers say what the system that was high pathetically designed to educate them fail? Well, are you awake because they wouldn't put out for them? They thought it was another trick of the you know the establishment to to use that men they in their minds, they were obliged to provide them food and shelter under and passengers. they were just serve, sullenly went along with things, they didn't harassed, something much and that's it

was minimum compliance, but it was a survival regime for them, and that was really where their lives were reduced. To answer, I produced a spark of life that they could actually better their lot, raise their higher ability and therefore their legitimate, by which I mean legal come aspiration because when the trick dated four eyes, but they were more higher blood, Indeed, in the case of a number of them, sister them in becoming correspondence student. In universities, and and indeed I had a couple of them who started there then were released and continued physically at the university and graduate I won a couple years ago wrote me money, graduated from the University of Alabama swarming couple just another six years ago, but a great

credit from the University of Alabama and an end to the except in touch with these people are all doing fine girl? Well, lunch don't burn well. This is this. Is you obviously take pleasure in this particular accomplishment. Was I a Jordan? Is I didn't write a few it is I like. We all remember the teachers they like that there were that many of them, in my case I didn't like I'd, but in the end of the view that really they were teachers because they couldn't make it in the world of adults. So they sat success. Is related, assert their authority ever smaller people, and I mean this was my concept that the motivation suddenly teachers at about their aunt Shaws Famous come at EU can does he who cannot teach us? I believe that without them here, I thought you were. There were exceptions, but in general about these

teachers were people couldn't make it in a more substantial exhibition. That was an unfair judge, but about it but On the other hand- and I see what what level of education is the partners squirrels achieved now- there is another shirt- was an unjust edgewood but I guess that's what I thought, but I saw the other side of it when I was tutoring these guys in the prisons. You guys saw the satisfaction of it, and I will give the bureau prisons as they divided this graduation, sir, and all the families

and they were emotional occasions- and I am not a particular emotional person that but one of the few seriously emotional positive emotional moments I've had was when my two colleagues and I were introduced and and this whole pack room stood up and cheered for about five minutes past and the other day the girlfriends are wiser parents or whatever My students would need my life in the in the visiting centre and say: oh, your husband is my guys. A teacher and reset breadth of the analyses have ever say was very touching. incidentally, the Jordan at present- isn't. As for those people, I was in a low security, but none of these guys were violent and they weren't habitual offenders wasn't right place. That's not the way we should treat these people. Well, they're not tread people and are not unintelligent. That's I say everyone of mind pass. The problem is

just got around turning around. So let's returned to the to the newspaper business so now you're out of law school and you you have a second newspaper and you, you're Eve graduated. Now you ve taken on the role of a publisher. Your empire starts to expand at that point. It does But I had one more one more. To run on the educational ways. I like the camera masters candidate and did receive a degree from a girl in French Canada studies. Now that this this can affirm mom, I'm another divest knew them found during the term. I went because new prayer Johnson a bit, but I dont know how conversant you are modern, Purbeck history, but he was often referred to as the sun deeper, he never had emerged request

as you probably know, is the only person in history serve five terms, Springer for back and he died in office. Under our search. Told me of the living would have been real. Even he really. He really knew you know how to organise the province, God damn it, but he was a bachelor and but the EPA advance Johnson, quite quickly. Johnson was kind his predecessor and end. He had saved speaking, sat very witty way, attacking and them here, I'm with it. He and inspired my interest in due process Until then, I admit I was the conventional english Canadian be the duplicity was really a retrograde political character and a scoundrel

color for man, a clever man, no doubt but a cynic than that central, much too authoritarian em in the some truth mapping. The fact is, he produced the modernization back. He built the other routes. He built the spoils of every university except Miguel men. He was re elected because he delivered for the prompt and but his technique was to get the nationalists from conservatives about together, which is very difficult an idea to nationalistic and frightened conservatives, which happened in nineteen, thirty, nine or are you- are you're, not nationalistic and often and get them they get impatient with it, which is what happened. The jacket Bertram, making symbols that media plus he had all organic repulse obey the farther Daniel Johnson Alembert duplicity.

The strong man. It was almost seventy one day did not as those you died, not as an early death is certain and then the hoping broker. But my point was the Johnson stirred my curiosity. Budget policy is a clearly was a story tat this man that wasn't been cold. He was revealed as the author of the great darkness Nelson, so I went to a colleague could happen to get an invitation. It came from MRS Griffith, through I mentioned in my old professor darlin whose said you might be addressed this. I went to the three rivers and it was a discussion of people and at the end there was a panel. There was one project: fuzzy pen was to anti personnel mines and I went up to the programme pussy one and at the end of it it was there somewhat well known historian, there remains a Frenchman bridge. I hope there was a member

You fool says: you share my view that a demonstration plaster vapor beak nineteen, twenty six and the person extreme shop, shot dead, and with that he left France never return emigrated back anyway. He am, I congratulate them on upholding the and weak converged for a while, and then I gave my right back my trail and it turned out that he had been commission by rights. It called French, the society of friends of the honourable Maurice depressing to write a book about two and and they had all due place. His papers. So the idea is that came, to my mind, will look you're ready French. Would they have any info Sincere, allowing an English speaking person to look at the men and write about anything

it's worth. The treasure will recommend USA and end the end. Then it happened the head of this. If it was the former Minister Cultural Affairs in It's not fair, transparent China. Well tumblr you, you may remember, still. I was very Oliver and end and so he said you have other spanish or even the ever will be agreed between you. Ve gotta. Keep them yourselves of all of which the rules are respected. And so I have a list of and then when I saw what I had. I realise that the do something about it, this it's. What takes me back to having developed at least the ambition to rights in history, so I calculated the divine rolled it. Mcgill citing this is my proposed thesis topic that would get me half way through and if I got half way through I'd I'd have the momentum to finish in that where my purse, but came from which it which is called, render unto Caesar the lights of Maurice Deposit

and I M so that aside, I got that side of things growing. At the same time we debate use paper company may and we buy out within a few months a daily newspaper Prince Edward Island and one in print. Regret British Columbia, so I could say, with a semi straight face: we'll have a newspaper chain that spans the country promotional ocean. But I suppose you are aware that the links, or rather a rather, why not medium. So you're writing. You're done your law. Degree writing now as well, and you ve got three newspapers at this point well, and there is some way for Europe to problems many as ten, by the way when some way could surround coming then we got, we say that there were some available ones

daily and weekly so ably we build it up. It was still a small company. Compare do you know they once did on the big newspapers in the coming weeks. We rebuild that up to something bigger scale in stature fairly quickly about about it. It was ass if it was a very proper business and normally with them. Wait. Wait, wait Maybe- make a bit based on the profitability of the press known and am very rarely with these people who own the papers running windows profitably as the good they were taking an isolated themselves, namely that concerned with a web browser, what we had an idea of what we could do with a proud and and then and then in those days you go to the local bank, and say what we can and we want to buy this paper. And we want it

last year alone. Have the mandate will take care of the rest. What we do is we give the vendor a balance of sailors to input of any sent, and but but we always did raise the prophet whales, raise the quality of products, and our position always was that the best way to raise the prophet was to raise the quality of the product and even then, People are bought and read. A newspaper were what is called ABC Nbc one readers, either high income or higher education relic respect me, ignorant people didn't bite and, for the most part, poor people than by newspapers and people, advertisers wouldn't be interested in wooden by Spain, but anyone a body papers, someone and advertise your wants to get. It says: disposable income. How much was your ability to make these newspapers that you purchased profitable and also to see an opportunity there? A consequence of you have

done everything when you bought your first newspaper considerable, because I knew how much man where you need an end, almost all of these places had more manpower and they need it. Now we handle gently, you know we move the moon basin A lot of them are elderly, so scared, merrily retired, at the top of their pensions that things like that, but a button and their small signal talked about a lot of people, but it is if you, if you gotta newspapers, fifty employees and you get either them to take early retirement- gave you ve got the payroll by almost twenty percent and an them, and it's a matter of your time ETA. In addition of after all kinds of things, due to an answer, ready made very few of them at any notion of how you how you could know height the circulation relatively easily contests things like

I was astounded at the people. We really saw. This was in England, where the daily Telegraph with daily circulation over a million broadsheet papers biggest broadsheet paper in Europe, the british love these and as far as Anderson, utterly ridiculous contest. But we have given the contest even to get a free subscription of a spectator, which we also on the plunging But it's a circulation though, so it is a bit. That's the sort of thing that up. You know any individual sitting in programme and sick Nelson British Columbia. Having this newspaper for thirty years. You wouldn't know that New would marry with well you, the influential person is community, made a profit every year having taken Sally themselves, three or four relatives Nogueira other than the camp. Who owns the car and answers speedboat. My leg and I was going to stop

I'm in that's all, he needs a weight which, despite the fact that, as you can tackle the profits So now you have a plan that this point, you're you're, being successful in purchasing newspapers that increasing the profitability, so your building up more capital. Are you? Are you planning? You have a aim at this point? just to continue expanding it. And you know this is my own plan of envy and we brought it about one way forward: the biggest the biggest paper we had when things change. Because of that shake up in the rebels in August, did you mentioned during her, whereupon I started to focus on finance. I was in the slave of accident, which really worry. I was once the term knows that use paper, but a hundred and twenty thousand circulation a day, not big for tomorrow, but it so that sets what is it it? Sir

I'm trying to say I don't know the newspaper circulation salad been out of business for London, but now there that's a hundred and twenty thousand paper states respectable sites paper at supper. Huge newspaper visit the sound like the open internships laboratories and there was some newspaper. The slaves were also well known. Paper go back. Show you, by the way they they history, part that I best it was from my studies of deposit. Where are they as I said, Sir Wilfrid was the chairman. One times are absolute dyed in the wool liberal newspaper, but the owners cabinet call me any of the newspapers in three rivers and Sherbert also

He was very few people senator and the legislative council, but the upper as tobacconist as is both the centre and any was the liberal party chairman. for twenty years provincially while I run off, is just before the pleasant and fruit nearly twice years after when they were in office and none of it he was a very powerful men and. In the early days of television he got the licence for through political contacts for Eastern Quebec Societies Rebecca around children and the best place to put his transmitter was at the top of Mount Orford through the provincial park. So he asked duplicity if he could put his nose transmitter there

and to place, he said inertia, you can you can put it there, you don't have to pay more than one dollar rent for meeting the problems, but not as long as right under the word slips away under waiting newspaper the words the liberal org. You said right at that point less away, never mind that Mr Karl was a liberal. Senator in legislative dancer became a union national newspaper, the switch like that and he got his license and even better than that. where it been away. A red herring by that is that might amuse her yours a bit right. So you building up a newspaper is it's it's in Canada, its limited Canada at this point, but you start to expand it first in the: U S first in the UK and how does now by we started to move in the? U S, let me think

We got going there in about her Seventy seventy five we bought paper just over the border in Vermont. And then and then and then go where men. Of course, in a market, that's that's what we ve fairly rapidly by a huge number of these small Bainbridge, wait, a formula to operate them and you could bundled together by region and then, when you were you combined circulation, became quite substantial in circulation, get nothing to an end, as you said in your interview, hundreds of its benefits. And were you run where you running writers across the papers are worried? The resulting in an independent fiefdoms fiefdoms were a few, the weight that we could. We could run art or or by vignette, cited disco for ourselves. Rather, the unit costs

Obtained if we were only buying for one little paper, ten thousand tea or something like that, but we gotta economies of scale to the great but it in the papers like that, you read, you absolutely have to serve the local public and end your relatively speaking, not under threat from television, let alone once obtained the internet as much as I can. They prepared biggest? Yet you know CBS through the sea BC, everyone are not going to carry them, we're the Strawberry Festival, the town your papers published any other than that you still have the room for so you're giving people They can't get anywhere else, and he is that still the case are the smaller community wide managing added the internet has become so pervasive. Now I think it's a threat that even to those papers but but not has not as much as it is too much. Power

So how are you managing your time at this point? You have you have an increasingly large media empire. you are also well you write about it into into regions. The eastern associate said the west, And then then, maybe big turn then the matter you referred to when they hear you know what What was called the turn? The Argus group companies, the control of the became available

another that that was spread, an intricate business, because a number of voting shares and all this quite small. So you view because my father had his position. He died in eighteen, seventy six, some my brother neighbour, technically, we didn't inherit start. We bought it from state that, but in an effect with parents and am and then the other was a shareholders agreement that the principal associate died in their recent jacking around and in any case we pay in accordance with the shareholders Raymond. We bought the other stocks and we had. We had control of the voting shares which had about this company, which had influential blocks

I can start by controlling boxes, talk about four. In most cases, they weren't a majority shares of the number of famous companies. Massey Ferguson was one the firm with banker, Dominion stores, the grocery stores dumb. The forestry products company and down, the most interesting it away with the talent remaining company, do much mining, but you don't sixty percent of an the that own big iron ore positions in in laboratory, northern Quebec and long term contracts, ship, the order produced about forty million dollars, royalties everywhere, basically, no gas, let the steel companies and their affiliates in the United States took the origin they destroy. So we had that task,

and then and then what I did was over a period. I re oriented that flow of cash business in the newspaper business. and we really really took off when, when I bought control of the London Daily Telegraph, which was distressed financial state. For thirty million dollars, which we also ultimately so for one point: three to seven billion dollars. how much, how long a period of time elapsed between the purchase and sale. From nineteen eighty six to two thousand and four so are we really research eighteen years here, that's great the return on investments are you in England, the boy knew by the telegraph. Are you spending much of your time in Britain at that point? Well, afterward, I went there for two years in some. Only and

me, and then I made it. My chief presents after that fora that fifteen years, so what was it like? Moving from Toronto, to Britain, were I kept my moment officer, but that in a sense you mean it, I mean a yes to move. My main reasons will get moving in Britain as an owner. Big newspaper is not like just getting off the planet he thrown going through the water had to find a job yourself. You I'd rather well received because of the position I have, but it was very interesting,

it's over. I was fortunate to get the very tail end of an era when a newspaper and were very influential people and I dont think their predicament such finance, but tender sounded beside it, but this is the term. Yet did it if you'd have London is one of the world's greatest citizen. If you're well situated in London, you meet a tremendous variety in interesting people who, either with their come through their virtually everybody, think up comes through London at some point in a year under the others, not some sort of occasion for them. So my wife and I were constantly receiving these formidable of stiff gold edged invitation. MR come to have dinner with sounds our lunch, so one server something and then the United was

sumptuous life, but but term, but I'm in mind, since it was really in me socializing with the oil wells. At that time I was a supporter of MRS Thatcher and ended would end. It was very interesting and active time politically in Britain is sheet effect. DE socialized country. However, do you know her? I got to know very well She was my sponsor in the House of lords, and then she and thence came to our wedding, ready and that often get the dinner was so you you when you went to you lived in Britain, ask you in Canada how interesting for me to hear how you would contrast the cultures, what was it like being Britain, I mean, I know you are now in a very fortunate position when you move there, and so you you entered in the upper loans of society. But you are

to see Britain from the inside into contrast it with Canada and with the U S to some degree. So so What did you observe and what did you conclude? It was a country being renewed. You know I've been written at the turn Sacho selected, very narrow way to the nineteen seventy nine, which was a country with take currency, controls, top Personal tax rate of ninety eight percent and some low tax cheating going on the British. Don't like that. You know that the real problem with Britain in Europe was not immigration. It was It was the authoritarianism directives for Brussels and end of the day. The french and the Italians essentially ignore the government as much as they can anyway, and I don't care what these directives are. Gonna get pay much attention in the famous absinthe active and the French in particular not getting,

seriously. Anything that comes from the Belgians and earnest from within Belgium and the Germans are the leading power in Europe and their accustomed regimentation so doesn't bother them, but the british light to be loved by they like to obey the law, but that they have to be sensible, as they have to be. The imposed by people at our accountable. So you don't like with joy, even throw them out about the voting list and

and that was a bramble, lead that, in addition to the economic stagnation, finally, finally, only a boiled over when Thatcher and her friends, Keith, Joseph and and others pushed out tat. He said when he and and took the conservative party of Great Britain conserving unionist parties too, to the right not to extreme right at the level of conservatism that conservative fiscal policy in tax policy and attitude to the library. It is that that the conservative party had not occupied, really send sir the early days of Stanley Baldwin. and then it wasn't back to ban, but it was ideologically similar position and obviously refined to reflect changes in society, the big over that period of more than fifty years, and

so it was very interesting to see how she was successful and I was there for her rough third election victory. She was the first prime minister since before the first Reform ACT in the early eighteen, thirty is to win three consecutive falter majority terms as Prime Minister and and she did it on the basis of radical change to the country, and it was quite exciting now at that time I was that I was late eighties, Brandon already is an old friend of mine. He was, he was We are questioned them deal politics on it, but that, given my position is used in these paper business politics have a lot to do with it. I'm a brain was doing something about the candidate as all was operated,

much closer to the middle of the fear, United, never got that far laughed and and and he didn't move it as far as stature moved Breton. In any case there There was not a unitary state, like Britain, so much different system, but they them yet you didn't have a man. I thought brain was the prime minister, but you didn't have that sense of profound change, radical change and exciting policy formulation. Man was one of the few periods, my wife for it of Trans magnified in the way of semi policy want, because we other positions- and I was there and the other aspect that was the cold war was still going on. And there were still some controversy in Britain in the third. There was all and the left wing of the Labour Party, especially in them, and the gold, imperialist wing of the Tories as well

This was antagonism to the United States, and when I there was in the latter Reagan. Here, isn't it pursues an important precedent and and an eventful. It is present and and- and I haven't- I knew the until now before he was present and so I I wasn't under the illusion that I was at the centre of things I wasn't, but I was. I was actually pretty close to the centre in Britain because my first trip there is the chief shareholder of the telegram, company. The prime minister invited me to launch on Saturday at checkers and she said look here. You know We need you at work.

Can't win without you are you are you? Are you with us, as only with Europe And- and I said, let me ask you something in this was right after Mr Murdoch had had had made his big changeover and move to a new plan. indeed certified and basically dismissed the old. The old pray print and printing unions that used to shut the papers down what I'm arbitrarily Shopwoman, whatever you lose a game of dirt. this paper, somebody in Kenya and call on the workers. It was almost ass, bad, ass, tat and end and she since murder acting within the law. She ensure that his titles could be produced as a book. I dont think we're going to get to the point that reports at her, but we were putting through voluntary work

I better get out now and if we need to import people from other countries to help get our paper said. She interrupted needs that I'll sign that work permits myself and that that was. It is Charles Polo, her long serving chief secretary, very distinguished public servant and Britain Road. Politically speaking, it was love at first sight. Emily was there that luncheon and we just got unlike smoke dead right today should at just a little non combat, not count this meant decidedly, but she would. I do her well very well, at our at our farmers. In my wedding Bernie, I thanked her and said. If it were, I never would have come to this country or wish to do business country that wasn't free of another instrument,

So what what made her able to do what she did mean? She was a woman in a sea of men. She was radical leader in many ways are obviously on the conservative front. She had apparently had tremendous strength of care What did you see in her that major able to do what she did? She was an extremely courageous person. and she was that type of person who focused exclusively on relevant, sequential facts in analysing the problem and an she. She had been a, I believe, the education secretary and the Heath government. Seventy two, seventy four and and

and was the co founder of the centre for policy studies. She came to the conclusion, along with a number of other. Some of them were intellectual, more frank was sophisticated than she was like Keith Joseph that that Britain simply had to change that what was called the aptly settlement where, where it will be closely written, called bats dollars and after a butler and Hugh Gates, was gates, but later Labour Party between climate, that land, Harold Wilson and read Butler- was the deputy prime minister for an end. All was the runner up the leader all through the Churchill, even Macmillan years in the end of each period and an end and the throughout. That was tumult

and it is out of his neighbors gonna, look like cabin where they agreed Muslims and Margaret confront this isn't working Breton, it is, is falling behind Our standard of living is is not keeping pace with the Germans and the French or the Americans and them, and this is why we ve got to change and she was there So they write, but sometimes just stating home truths and simple. Where is it? Is it is so far from what people used to it sounds more radical. It's what she was saying wasn't in fact all at radical. She was saying things like we can't have just to please the ears funds for work, stoppages began capricious middle level. Union officials is colleague, everybody it for fun about whenever they. had a bad night and the, and we can't take ninety percent of peoples in Cameroon, nonsense from its nonsense

just ninety nine cents to collect the ninety eight. Since I'm in your collection, gas get too high. Cheating Venza reaches rich people, move away at. It gets us nonsense and them, and she had a way of putting it very clearly and very persuasive and, and that group was was deal team. For that time. She him ass. She had some people. Nigel Watson, for example, was a former editor of the spectator the senior writer for the financial Times academic economist, but but of a fine debate her and- and he could he he put through absolutely radical budgets were go. They cut the top tax rate between Jeffrey how Nigel they shouted from ninety

percent to forty percent and an end. You know she had it. She had a group that could argue in parliament and given the country she had an academic group led by each ass. If in a centre for policy studies of Kenneth Minnow got enough. You know these people, alone, academic, the canvas and specialist other areas who could put it forward. The way was where they get defended against the best debate, of the left, and she was a powerful leader who kept the whip on the backs of the Tory Party and said this is what must be done, and this is why we have to but an end, the when she said the Ladys not for turning and sat down for government and so for she showed image. He was right, but but but there is no doubt that at times

National opinion within that party in the Tory Grand Lease didn't upriver and then ever like a stab in the back and yet, but even those who were involved in that had to admit that she made a tremendous difference in it and the best of them. For example, Michael Heseltine, very able man, very good defence secretary and then came back and other roles, but. Here, he agreed with her policy couldn't stand person. She couldn't stand here but buddy, but he was. He was known slacker when it came to the to the policy she was. She was the right person from returned. Unfortunately, as so often happens when, when people in democratic countries, upheld elected office for a while. She started to lose your sense of political self preservation

and at the end I became because we had a big parliamentary contingent and in the press gallery and did love political reporting and Neil Kinnock, the leader of the opposition labour, later told me. there that the first parliamentary report he read every morning was hours because, even though we were rapidly growth that your paper, the reporting was always fair and always perceptive, and that was our standard. Not was what I always tried to force everywhere in every country and all our papers was to separate report he encountered at when she rarely get noticed and then, as the agitation with Thatcher's authoritarianism within the conservative. Parliamentary party increased. We would hear actual in the editors would tell me the same. So I said I looked put ten more people into the Prescott another day that they give oppressed past anyone. But the telegraph asked were given our position and.

We were the backbone of a nation and await over a million say on ninety. Eight percent of member conservative voters and and I, if for once I will, I will ignore your expense account at which were agreed they always heard from church? Listen. I almost sacked the editor when he expected me to pay for charging a helicopter to taking the drinks bargain break, but I said, look out of ignoring all of them. Tell these guys divided up. Take the entire conservative parliamentary body. Every envy divide them up into groups over the next few months. Have your guys take them all? I play them drink and find out what is really going on there and when I had always

As for an appointment, the Prime Minister has said to come over later that debts and- and I said what is it, what I've done idea decided name, anyone ever be dishonourable. I did not give one name, but, for example, the chief were rent in his name was wounded. Couldn't wait to see the back? If that's the issuing a page had Mc Clure this, so I didn't mention of admission anybody. I said I'm telling you pregnancy Your parliamentary party, you see that with this and then there's an absolute, ran sit down there and its very essence. gone a long way into the group- and you d better, if you pardon me being so. The imperious here if you'd give. You got him

I'm not saying, should accommodated peace and make a peep course corrections that weaken the attract more of them to break the momentum of this, and am, I should have read the absolute rubbish said: they're all slackers are cowards I set a course for cowards, that's what makes the dangerous ended and genuine was only a few weeks later, the sheer push pearl jeopardy Out in the the nineteen twenty two society, the group of non cabin impedes in the governing burning, essentially gave her the hijab and ended it was it was that it was very unfortunate in them. In a way round and editorial on. on the front. Page was very rare. The day before and under which I can maybe that's the last sentence about better MAX Hastings was not a professional person, but I

The last sentence was: let them Margaret Thatcher's one of the greatest. Leaders who has arisen in a thousand years british history and his long she wishes to remains. Prime minister. She may count on the support of this newspaper ensure a bit handwritten personal letter thinking at birth, but she went, and I told them edited a blackboard around the story tat. He said I please you're not serious aside I'd, like spared method. That's I felt it was given. It was a tragedy, not a tragedy in a sad ass. She was in great leader began. Join, I don't believe in turn what? Basically, the voters will decide if they got a good person after slept. He keeps personally and in the United States the only time in the history of the country or anyone saw the third

the entire future. Civilization depended on his being elected Annapolis. Franklin D, Roosevelt in nineteen forty because of the Republicans, would never come up with when police in Britain in Canada could not have continued in the war Then they wouldn't have got ward leaders goods that anyway, Wendell will keeps equipment, but he was no if the year, but if we look back, in the last. What fifty or sixty years, the only waited syn I have been important countries who ve left office in good physical health and the political help, where the term limited Americans, Eisenhower Reagan and then made Clinton, but more as an hour and ragged. Let me out of it if they had been allowed to and chosen to do either, but would have won a third Teresa there very popular but the. But do you know you get this rosville said

you got to have a new, even though its you running for re election has to be for a new reason. You have to give the people a new reason over which he did. That, I believe, is now would be the depression, accelerate prosperity instead of war. When the boy I'm gonna do it is a different thing. Each don't that term. I digress. No Margaret Thatcher was she. She was very courageous and very admirable I have an and also a wonderful person it instead always mean that staff at Downing Street and checkers loved her she's terribly like these people, in a way that, some similar labour Prime minister's, like Callaghan weren't particulates,

and certainly man like tat he had. No man is anyway. She wasn't like any is a big brother, like the mists purse, news nearest, the medical added predicting like and politically but buddy what he wasn't very polite, and but Margaret Thatcher was very polite to those people, no matter how rough she was an earnest, she felt they could dependent cells. But you have someone servant He downing Street was couldn't two three had to be polite to these people and she was never condescending about amidst she was from grant them about others. Aggressor names, ultimately mayor, say, is a well known men and grant them buddy in the world of Westminster and Belgrade, the great and the good dukes of a rich and Emily. If they are, they walked upon horizon and keep the ludicrous vacant. I'm SAM Johnson jumped up the battle axe from amendments and and and and

She was never predicted self conscious by that, but it must be said she. She was always a little awkward and in that way I had a kind of a past. As I wasn't part of this awful class system, Britain. I wasn't anything else would like from another planet, but I have to say this very cheap. She did not have a good sense of humor She is she occasionally said funny things, but she wasn't. She wasn't a naturally humorous person, Which is at the end of the world, but their decisive, you got better sense of humour and and she was a little over simplified in view of the fact is when you get right down, she didn't like yours, because she didn't like the main european nationalities amid the germans- didn't mind the Italians, but she can take the italian series, but but but should rather like them, but

but she she never forget the Germans for the war and she did. She thought the French were word were sharpers and and Slide cunning and devious bit. And ended, she saw worked and stereotypes now, if you should never an individual person from Germany or France, obviously perfectly plain to the much fundamentally. She didn't trust either of those countries, and she didn't feel this Europe's job too, to lead the Danes and adoption of the small countries that wanted Britain to help them, and then she, rather like the Americans at an end, and she never forgot- and she told me this many times- she never forgot what the United States did. World two how desperate Britain's condition was and under home, overwhelmingly helpful

the Americans, where she had great admiration for us about the cheese is she said, and each year from nineteen forty two. We see more and more of the Americans in Britain And- and I know the roof- the reflections here and there in things but to us it was just wonderfully reassurance more and more. These big tall Come on american boy, would arrive, ready doing Europe and she was a family were practising methods and every Sunday they would invite american servicemen that I see in the church service to come back with them. Have lunch say they thought it was a nice thing to data young men overseas or missing, found, listen to show some hospitality image, a very genuine traditional, won't church,

distant but tower to know no religious animosities have any can muster. Constituents were jewish and end them and straight by what you saw, what you got a bit very strong, good, well, rounded, rigour, but if if what you need, which is what they did, what was summoned to make radical change and and say the lady is not returning, and this is what we have a mandate to doing we're going to do it because she was perfectly there were at once. You ve got in the way a software situation that would that woman

We therefore to image she wouldn't confused with Disraeli or something which you, if she'd guns of the Congress of Berlin and set up the Israeli out there, they would have ended up in war Bismarck, and I mean shaded, probably started them starting since train live better. But but you know, resources for courses and she was a wonderful leader for the time as a person she was standing person. Absolutely. While I have great admiration for credit. rationale for dense. Don't you knew Reagan, this well got it not as well, but I know me, I know you're very was present when it was presently nitrates present and what we Impressions of him extremely formidable man a was to start with one of them. Charming than I have ever been practically all politicians, a reason Lady charming when they put the mines to otherwise your neuron business, but that he was, he was

seemingly pleasant. What I've been stature and, moreover, in jail you're just a charming. I good, racked onto a terrific, brackened, thirds very good conversation, and I think he was a great leader. I e the others. I dont unruly debt about that. He was a wonderful speaker. He kept it to a few basic point C p. He vulgarized and the prince. I made these complicated issues. and it was almost impossible that shared with Thatcher that capability ass an end, but in a slightly different way, he had a word he would throw in a humorous aspect was disarming. and the end he would also when he did it It is a little more anecdotal folks if she were men, but not not not where it is our common to tear it. He was a very skilful debater if, if you

interested in you can find it on the internet, the debate he had with Robert Kennedy over that business about the left, wing, academic and neutral a general visa waiver far laughed and speed up his ability to remain at a state university because he was so communist and am and at the end of Robert Kennedy, Sid. Don't ever put me in a debate that guy made Reagan, I had some conversations and where I was astounded even well, every was present and was supposedly in decline. We had an astounding recall the details and she was a much more comprehensively. Intelligent person was widely known because he eat sometimes seem flat. Footed went when a direct question was put to me in the american tradition is not one of debating like it isn't the parliamentary. When he was a governor,

president money never debated with anybody, but he chose to lies with Canada here when he actions in the elections and about, but he had this idea that, but he was ass. We know it the court, whispered, column and amiable dancer me guy New clipper too, and Brigham's smart sliver differently pillaged, but he wasn't very intelligent man. But he is there. We was here. He was in a way inspirational thing, because His way, the only six jobs he was a life where guardian people swimming what what what we were lifetime yelling at ten peak, though it went away and then he was it

small, an answer in the mine, I California abandoned the great depression and then screen actor and including, I think, six terms instead of the screen actors, guilt, but his job as an actor, and then he was the vice president for public and personal relations for General electric car, then governance. California and president of the United States, and any only, I believe for elections beat admitted tree Brown who defeated Richard Nixon for years before vermilion, both sunny defeated Jesse Amre, but over a million certainly for reelection got right be present. Jimmy Carter by think nine in boats and then, while reminder just died the other day by over fifteen many it just it assisted a very modest careering, a graduate of Eureka coverage, And then, and then

went all the way up to the top of the country. Instead, there d be the undoubtedly was very good person. Tough from from news about. I got older this Reuben, a Jordan heat. It is, he wasn't, Mr Nice Guy, he came across brilliant ass. Mister Muskrat That's since she was like the earth can prosper, terminates guts, but the butter Ronald Reagan didn't go to the funerals of people launched his career like Alfred Bloomingdale and just in time Henry Salvatore Day- Nancy Reagan, prowler peculiarities. What was a very human person Reagan had wonderful human qualities. Man. I don't know your eye if we add up. As general. Our heads sit around in the chest and collapse. Lung would walk into the urgency room is, I hope you people are all republic, so I hate it wasn't, but he wasn't for real

recording it film there? Nobody really did have a bullet has just but about eight. He keep him. He was fixated on certain target. and while he was always he was always serve pleasant everybody. I never got the impression he was wash sentiment. Where the inner way Nancy words in that way, she Kind of his ambassador to Vienna, What's your hair be spontaneous like you are fond of her too. Yeah, I didn't know her as well. I thought you'd admirably devoted to him any night like there's something by that California thing that speaks me. A bitch she's consult these sir Strategies, seers unaware, may I go further like whatever works, reopen like anything make, makes me better but the eyes she was very nice. Tell your five to seven, a Roman she's very great. I have to say

ever emitter. Hillary Clinton was some sort of like a politically. Rachel, you back in Britain, your ear, you're you're running that the grass near you are also moving up. do the ranks of british society or made up a Lord. How did that come about? Well, you know you're, a big newspaper good. You don't have to do very much for that. Your party, an office or, or indeed now you don't even after that, I perceived as installed but where, but I was put up by the conservative leader for time, William Egg, the aid that is basically an ex officio thing. My predecessor had, as its predecessor was yellows, Lord, the Lord Lord heartfelt women, I remain proud of that law cameras and what did it mean to you in? But what were the response bodies that are associated with it. Well, it's what you want to make out a minute say if I hadn't had my career and rapid as it was.

here I would have the guy janian. Is it acted Peter, and I get a number of speeches, my arrangement with the conservative website. This was but I would not presume to advise the british pensions or even their spoils, but I'd speak on foreign policy and alliance matters and that's what I did and I was at the time of day Iraq war when, when, incidentally of the Blair needed us, because you know whether whips and it has come to- can normally control about its life appointment, the Lord, so you can do anything you want peers, could get stuff there's something like Dover and and Blair needed. The conservative appears to support his policy, so here yet he found a number of issues, including man. We did supported by term. I guess it's me,

Could you give us a serious subject? It is the best debating forum and the world it has this image of being a bunch of down at the he'll, probably drinks. Hoddan descendants of people did brilliantly It is worse than that. Isn't what it is. It's it's the number fluctuates around eight hundred members. Now there are fixed number of about a hundred that are hereditary, but apart from a few specific officeholders like the Duke of Norfolk, as our marshal and your do. Can the markets of Salisbury and a couple of others they d be elected. I'm so did the erratic prepares are elected by other hereditary. so they have a run after my friend were Lord rather earlier owner of the daily mail, he hid the he didn't when he was defeated by a fellow hereditary.

Lord Rasta Jacob Roscoe, he didn't run, but he didn't run because he knew that he would win and by the way they should. Those are two people should be there, the very people, but they and that obviously influential people, but the m. in a serious debate? Yet you know you'll be Remember you, your previous chief cyber defence staff, you have the heads of the main universities, you're, bleeding academics, Acer Briggs, for example, Gave you have them cultural figures? Andrew, Lloyd, Weber, Yehudi Menu began and you have leaders of great corporations the main trade unions, Trade Union Congress and senior

officials and went when when I spoke in the Iraq war debate right after the break the last previous defence sector, and and propriety they last previous chief in the defence field, marshal grammar and and the way it works is its very fair at the Thea. Waiter, so the parties, nice words determine initiate debated and if people in their groups want an issue debated for support for the data

they made me angry. I will give us regulate, say a twelve hour debate over several this and then whoever, however, leads and closest breach parties that their fixing within reason speak for once I want. The rest of the time is divided up equally between all of those who signed the desire to speak, which is put in a public place. Public other people who have any business being in the palace Westminster, not a street but can any peer going by right else. I will speak about the personnel and and thence divided up equal allocation to a close, can all before walls the Lord Chancellor Preside, and you can see your time and and and you dont go over it

they're, no Rudy raptures over awful name, calling it barnyard invitations to get. This problem is very and I M an end. You sit down when you finish and and if you don't pay the sort of Clark and Lord Chancellor stands out You really have to sit and everyone does and and then, when the debate and everyone goes to Petersburg continues. About on a serious subject. You get absolutely brilliant speakers and and and and its extremely well the very what what's. The net effect on on british policy may vary, Sometimes the government needs it.

and there are always some members of the government who submits works- are frequently the attorney general, for example, because it date always want her extremely respected, barristers they turn general of the country and end that person is likely not an in depth, so you couldn't as words nets researcher, but as a matter of fact is that as the business country unfolds, generally speaking, the infant This is great. I mean I may add an amendment here there, but it's your technical management at times arise when Because there are no whips and there is no discipline meet people vote- how they want to build their that there, the position of ass, the words can be very important. Then all of a sudden. All of that when I was there,

expect and get back to this when we say that now the sudden, your friends from some prominent figure in the governed yet heard front for the last five years, I need your own and ah- Are the debates made available to the public in any form other than previously known other on television, as little comes on top of that, there are also recorded and available to anyone once a year in written form. all right, so does your ear empire your media empire at this point, is it doesn't reach its peak with your acquisition of the telegraph. Are you grow? No, no. We don't have to worry about the Chicago, sometimes with, but the Fairfax Papers in Australia, very distinguished papers and men with, but the southern papers encountered in eighteen eighty six and found the national postal and after them, and so that it was right in there was when I was

take him in any way. Was a big campaign has ever debate in that industry Cuesta they company compared to Microsoft, or some of the big companies that interest. Yeah, what's happened: do your relationship with Canada, while you're in well you're in Britain. Well, I came back then I get my house officer associated kept it up, we're all gonna come back Latin, spend them practically all summer him So I wasn't as if I was absent altogether. Benny leads and then you know when we add up the papers here and I see the papers that be talking my associates in one business, another here what I miss in the United States in our headquarters in Yorkshire, I'm moving around election. Now her home Different cities are, and are you please with the way things are going at this point in your life

I am now with. It was a very difficult patch and animals. There was very little butter. I yes now, I'm by members, without you going, I have been freed for some years ago. I was sorry I wasn't. I wasn't clear and win win when you're in your ear, the stage of expansion that you just described. Yes, yes, although I started, I started that have real misgivings about the future of the union. Paper business and they were well founded misgivings, but we had an exit strategy that was being conducted very successful until, as you said, near introvert, those problems arose. Can we talk about that? A little bit? Ok, so What happened you you hit a peak there. Do you have your running this? Incredibly, blue angel company and trouble started to brew. Why and And what do you see when you look back well, I took a good luck.

I just did not see our newspapers- could continue as a growth industry. so, although it was this was win, starting in the mist. Starting over brilliant, the iron starting on the earth about the early Ninetys around ninety three, and so we we sold us Tralee. A very handsome profit, arrange the wayward came through with no capital gains. Assessment has conveyed by basically bankruptcy, not because it wasn't even company just been over livered financial sub is a financial problem rather than operation one and then and then, and then, where it really work, Really turn was with some when ice, I sold most of the canadian newspapers today ass for Israel Aspect

who were found the global television network an end and answers, and we were continuing you that were rolling his papers at night. If we keep the telegraph and base and some of the smaller ones knew ass. It were particularly profitable. If you see the movie grandpa, a puncture Johnny So when you re on that day, braided fifty percent of its total revenues were pretext proper. That was a very rich paper, not a big that the very problem undone and that's where we were

sitting when, when they legal problems rose, I mean we're. We're gonna distribute the money, not as development buying in cancelling chairs in her own way was about people when they hear that I attended the chest was about, however, and so we would compact complain, keep some cash repositioning different business, but before we got into the infant imitation of the expensive Burnham after these legal problems arose. Man moved sideways downwards, Did you see on the horizon for newspapers that made you nervous? the continued viability of business. You didn't see how we can hold the readers against the internet. The incursions of the internet would be. It is also clear:

We just didn't ultimately have a defence against an end. We tried various things: we rarely Vienna, we put up internet sites, but they were really just dumb enticements too I mean that the fiscal paper an essentially that was the problem of the newspaper industries response. It had been it put things: then on the internet. The most you just give your content of a free, case. Your wrench already bankrupt you're really and trying to in tasty too, to buy your product and pay for the huge physical plants with a print. The papers and the past networks distribute them, and that was the problem they have had no, newsprint the Knook deliberate year, while AIDS and also an incredibly effective place to advertise and.

So well. My prognosis was right. My remedied righted there were problems, but there were problems created by name and what what caused it legal problems. Well, they were getting into a real jungle here, but I know what happened was the term some If his shareholders, who were essentially in the greenmail business they would, they would bind company where they saw that ultimately, the value to be greater than agitated, sales, also, livestock stirring up shareholders creating scenes of the Puritans meetings with things like us, whenever any problem of share of these meetings nights right to the end, I never had the slightest problem winning any both as but what what they did was they exploded in american provision.

of the securities and exchange actors, as amended that enabled them to set up a special committee to review what they were planning a bet which was that some of these people, when I bought assets, promise paid a non compete pee to my associates and myself personally- and this was this- is done in a business and, for example, in Canada, when we saw too busy aspect. At the same time, the sun papers were for sale, because I believe Mclean Hunt her head of cross media problem, where they beg condone the television cable and the new paper. In the same said it so you had papers coming up for sale in celebration, Edmonton our work well, where we had paper so aspirin wanted an incomplete promised you certainly when then take his money go by another paper

higher everyone away from the boys we just Latin, computer them say, absorbs unreasonable Bangladesh, but anyway we had people complain and set it shouldn't. Gold was now in the case of aspirin that going works. You wrote me a letter. Whether you re one of destiny wanted it from us, and there is no ambiguity about that. Some other cases in the: U S, Were more ambiguous but which we could manage all about that once got going, they on the special committee and its council, scabbard that an associate have done some nasty things. And in the american men or having done the nasty things he said our at what I will give evidence against Mr Black never mind Mr Black had not done any night things I'll, give evidence against him. If you will give me this dear, he said this was done through council

It's the other plea. Bargain system is completely undermine the entire functioning criminal justice in the US of this was done then so next thing I knew we were. We were all been charged with things we didn't do whenever ultimately been found battle. but meanwhile idea to fifteen years ways to get rid of it all now, ass, it was destroyed. Everything we'd all work. Thirty years to build is reduced to nothing. The bankruptcy a book but which, incidentally, meant that sir. More than one and a half billion dollars of shareholder value in the hands of people. they ve been ourselves just a that issue. Singular Supreme Triumph a bit of them. they shareholder governance, governments, movement, complete fathers, dementia self, righteous hypocrites visas for themselves and ruin and governs how did you How did you survive it?

enabled you to stay. I know that functional enough to serve as a tutor, for example, well, I I knew that I had not in fact broken the law, as I was fighting the good faith of the other wrongfully acute cells and then an innocent person, but in terms of the criminal statutes of the United States have certainly in us inside. So I had the moral righteousness to fade and I had the historic knowledge that the alternative to fighting was to be just absolutely eliminated in every respect. Extent, physically. Conceivably. In that way to his last heard altogether lose the wild lives. You have to pay to said no use the cornered he's the cornered animal you after fighter you're gonna, be They were, why don't and then and then, and then,

in the area think you're getting at maintenance of morality and difficult times, but I am. Dear that believes that essentially lighters, privilege and, and that you make the most of it. However, bad at it Is an animal shirt, terminally ill and the debt story, but always there some satisfaction from the privilege of life, even if it's just going outside breathing the fresh air and looking at a blue sky instead and see me He trees moving around the breeze had still do wonderful when you compare to nothing which is the alternative and them, and so there is a duty to carry on and and. my experience individually and as an observer and such acquaintances I have with history, shows that fortunes change, and if you, if you

persevere alone. If you come through things, we have to find another day. Minutes sound uranium ground No, no! I, wouldn't I wouldn't say so, not when it's not when its acted out in reality, and you said that your ears, satisfied with your life at the moment than its its full in its rich and oh yes, good night good night, I'm I'm, I'm following Napoleon's advice to regain last territory and the inverse order of their last son. boot strapping myself up in one way and another video I what I ever knew I have a new perspective that I would not have had. yeah I got I'm not saying I M glad I went through all idea, but it heads it had its rewards in its rich experience, including the ones you mentioned, that there the prison, but I would never have had the province

the commentator that I do I'd millions and millions of breeders in the United States and and and and I am astounded at how many people read my stuff and you're gonna get invitations, speaking tourism things you go out and get it Women were not hobbled by pandemic, good increases in the Mediterranean and talk to people cruise ships in length and- and I was also were you know when I when I when I went to this came upon me- I had written to books, the device he went and then went to bed myself, which was really just to deal with accounts of my career, that that I considered not to be accurate to set the record straight in the militia, simply their very informative. That's why did about had written to books? and ass. You kindly mention debts that everything eight since they ve all been from modestly at a very successful

one end, and I might be right- and I wouldn't able absolutely would not have had the time to do it if it had to be a functioning chief executive two billion dollars a year sales company. They deserve, it is a full time, job when you gotta do it right to when you, when you look back. What do you think you didn't write? if you're, there's lots of people who are watching this interview, who are trying to put their lives one way or another, and looking for guidance and in their attempts to do that. What what is that, you ve done or what is it that you ve seen other people do, that you admired, and that were successful. That word was particularly was particularly proud the Van useful and meaningful, let's say, and maybe even right. Well, I think people who do without an aptitude do are much. Appear than an unfortunate. Very large number of people were stuck in occupations. They don't like

It's been my good fortune that either was able to do. What I wanted to do, and and had some attitude to do was able to make that choice, or I locked into I didn't realize. I had absolutely no idea that I had an aptitude for it, but as it turned out, I did I mean I Is this like everything else? I guess I had always assumed that practically anybody who wrote a book of yes really knew a lot about. It was competent writer did a good job on now that I've done some men. As you said, I wrote a book about President Franklin D. Roosevelt is a vast literature by Israel and some of the people of Britain about him been very good, but a lot of them is rubbish. Absolute rubbish, it's not well run.

and these are accurate and then missile opened its even more so the case with Mr Nixon was so terribly controversy. And and indeed the reason I wrote about those two men was to fill a gap. I never right where I think I have nothing to add. I felt the residence divided between worshippers and they, these people entering this nonsense about being a communist traded? Those placid gave Eastern Europe way to style, announced scattered nonsense at an end and the thing that it was the worst up. cut it out. He was neither a saint under communist leaves extremely important inescapable, unfounded political leader, I and leader ii government, but but for the reasons I enumerate not, I can't and they motionless and MR next I eight it was just a pillar Does it essentially man with her cloven feed and horns

you know of any wasn't. It was very good present and dumb entered by the weather, still no programme of evidence and committed crimes. He admitted himself, it needs serious mistakes and certainly some of the people has entourage committed crimes, but there's no weapon either an end and that the one term that he served with one of the most successful history of the country, if you, if you take into account that when he came in there were five hundred and fifty thousand american draft ease the ends of the earth, with no exit plan, two hundred to four hundred coming back dead every week, no relations with China, no arms control tax riots everywhere in the U S, every week, all over the place he stopped It was very, very good present anyway. I'm sure I get that ITALY was reassuring to me that I can actually do that things. I'd always assumed, but for that the people did it. Did it adequately Wilson

let them do, but the latter them down, and there is always room for improvement, Irma Socks and them right right gradually, my horizons expense. Now, I'm in finding an answer rebuilding my fortunes. Some. I bet the exact opposite How I began in business where I'm in his first, anyone in the public would not where, because I took over company, was made famous by very thin businessman EPA tailored, but in particular I was the public eye all the time and as a young man, it's natural again be irritating. Alot of people will now and then I am to up to a point but has come together with no one has a clue what businesses at their private entered, from countries end, and you know you don't know no bounds, and so I dont have the problem that wrestling with public relations monster. All attacks,

and dumb? Aren't you mentioned in one of the books that I read that you in retrospect wish that you would have handled public relations and of things I suppose anymore instigated manner or earlier You realize how critically important it might be. That am I recalling. That accurately, is that, if other issues with it substantially, Serbia but I have my might is demanding, was there's no way to avoid a lot of attention, so what I should do is made it head on and at least cause to be discarded the caricature that all business people are fundamentally stumble. Bombs itself

Russian? I can actually give a fluent explanation, but I'm doing and secondly, to advance the eye. I deal that business is in fact not just a bunch of grubby businessmen scrubbing for cash. It actually gives new trusting subject, and I thought I thought those were correct premises and I was successful that but but will but where what you said is Jack. They writers, I didn't I didn't appreciate- is much the same, It should have or would have if I were more experienced, how tired people can get of someone who doesn't have a natural call attention. I think this, incidentally, was one of the chief problems of the immediate former president of the Eu S he he always believe not at I've known him along tat. He always believe that there is no such thing as bad publicity, no matter how apparently negative was well up to a point. He was right,

but not if he wasn't right once he became present bigger once he got me, be the Erasmus phrase, the head of the american people, he didn't leave the publicity and he didn't he didn't want. Him was unthinking, a fight for him to be seeking a level out from the top. for it. So much of it to be bathing sessions. Where's were his enemies, challenged him any resplendent men. He had reached a position where you could safely rise above must have that just spoke when you have such speaking, have something to say when my but where Russia is a little peace in a letter sent to him, someone had been cut. They give isn't Wilson illustration rabies How how at present has to know when to be in front of the public and when not when it will be retained the public not while I'm. I wish I had obviously never had position of one percent of the consequences and pressed the aspects,

I wish I had taken back on board even at the modest scale of where I was near before, embarking on the spot, but part of that part of it. Surviving and growing older resolutions, I think perhaps that's a good place to stop a good, well kept you to learn. I hope her. I hope either people find somebody interests written off. They should put it on one when they're afraid they may be suffering from summed it up. Thank you, ve extremely fur, for talking with me today and for not always a pleasure. I was a pleasure appreciate it very much and and- and I hope we get to do it again- there's many things that we didn't talk about. I didn't talk about any of your opinions about current up, current affairs or or or

about future many things that I would have liked to have discussed. But the way we can do at another time, rate.