So my guest, faceless a fisher now, you may know her name, but even if you don't know her name, you do that likely know her voice? She is a mooring, vocalist. She spent decades touring with and recording with the role stones. Luther vondra, sting keener, turner, nine is now springsteen, and so many others that that earthshaking voice. here, alongside mick jagger on gimme shelter, there lisa and so many other places where you me and humming, along with it are saying along and not knowing it was her. She also recorded and toward on her own in the early nineties under grammy, was featured in the oscar winning documentary twenty feet from stardom and for the last five years, Lisa has been selling at venues worldwide with her ban grand baton into thing. Is that for lisa growing up in

behead, where loss was really a part of her existence. She felt like a propeller outside outsider and she music similar way her mandate as a refuge. She eventually went on to study, opera and then took this turn in, the world of orange be found. self touring with luther Andrews all these other mega acts vault him into some of the big stages in the world and in the midst of. This incredible success LISA also really wrestled with her own room in the music business, whether she should be front and centre on the stage or whether her gift and love was to support harmonize with others, she sport and wrestled with issues of worthiness and identity. Purpose power theme everything the stage and music industry can bring. We dive to all of this, along with leases, really

beautiful and wise take on life. Her her lens on, wonder and possibility on harmony and elevation egos and true self and live. With one eye on the finality inherent in every month, and the need to really must be real with people and take advantage of every breath you take. So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan fields- and this is good life project. the So the ten percent happier podcast has one guiding philosophy. Happiness is still that you can

it's a! Why not embrace it. It's hosted by dan harris journalists who had a panic attack on national television and then send out on this journey of transformation and he's now on a quest to help. Others also achieve peace and happiness, and every week Dan talked you top scientists, meditation teachers. Even the odd celebrity in wide ranging conversations that explore topics like productivity, anxiety and lightness, psychedelic and relationships, the interviews cover everyone from bernay brown to cerebral ass to SAM Harrison more. I love learning from his questions and experiences and incredible guess think of listening to ten percent happier as a work out for your mind, fine ten percent happier where every listen to pot casts The project is supported by the economist, saw the world seems to be moving faster than ever: climate economics, politics, a eyeing,

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how does a I even work where it is. Creativity come from it's the secret to living longer, ted radio, our explores the biggest questions with some of the world's greatest thinkers. They will prize challenge and even change. You listen to and be ours ted radio, our whatever you get your past. It's so nice to be hanging out with you There were hanging out in new york city right now, and I guess he just came in from brooklyn, which is where you grew up for at fort Greene yeah. But what I think a fort green now so for those who are not familiar with brooklyn answer like a year for doing now, is kind of like hipster bill. the profoundly different neighbourhood and then, when you actually go out there, I have memories of them being for green. And visions of coming

my elementary school to appear. Sixty seven ends There was. Police and in a kids expiring in fourth or fifth grade. and someone in the project right across the street from school had been pushed out of a window awe, and you know you can hear the adults talking industry and you can open a rolling. You see the top. You know over the body and on all I kept thinking was is he world. Why would someone want to hurt someone in or take someone's life to hurt someone? You know it's hard enough to

Walk through this life and care for your own life, less loan having to feel like you have to protect your life from another person or another situation. So I always felt very nervous as a kid. Ah, just feeling, like things didn't, feel sure there were gangs- and you know, but in the in the midst of all that there was there was joy and there was laughter and there was family and there was a playfulness and exploration, and I think music for me was My- was the thing that that made me feel safe. You know being. With my brothers and with my with my parents and my grandparents, mostly family, made me feel safe in their. How does music starches show up in your life

like when I was little oh, my gosh that smiling let me like everybody, talks about it made me when you ask that a meeting with my dad and my mom cause. They. They were young parents, you know, and so ah there was always music. There was, you know, always dancing and finger snapping in him. happened in classes. Clink in gig, lynn and and being lotta singing and tom, my grandparents, my father's parents gifted us an outbreak I know, and it was just the opening to us, one of the universe because My mom would play it it meant she was at a stay at home mom when she would play it, and I think once my dad left for work and all the kids were out, it was like her time to re.

Do you know she would have a little piano on the piano would be speaking to her sheep reconnecting with it at the time we would come home for lunch or come home from school. She was, she was pretty chill, you know, and it was, I think, everybody's saving as you know the piano or listening to some music like doing smith time. We would have this. They silver. I guess it's considered, can a wretched cool now, but back when I was a kid, it was considered smart to have a tree that you didn't have to buy and cut in breakdown, this beautiful silver tree in you sly the amount of these little kind of waxy packets in you,

stick them into the pool and it was like a thing in and then lives the color wheel and they were balls in and after we were done trimming there me and my mom are to have a plug in the color wheel. They put on a record and we just sit together to sweat. While it's making me cry would sit and watch the colors change. Impact It was like the most peaceful time. You know a yearn for those times and usa. You two younger brothers as well. I I did. I have one left them in my. I have two brothers. One was Donnie and the baby brother was aunt. That is me any is, thank god still with a study done. He had her prostate cancer

spirit and think you aspect response and dumb. He was funny anyways. Rave. Any was one of those kind of guys it hated to go to the doktor. It's just you know does not feel of it. And so when he was having some issues with his knees. I am bottom line here, founded that it wasn't t just she's with his knees and so was stirring in going back and forth into trying to make sure he was okay than he had everything he need. It and you know between myself and my family reaches the all came together. Interest did everything we had to do, and I think he taught me so much about. The circle of life without even realizing it. You know so a term say I try to run from it.

It now is so busy trying to live. You know really wants to think about that you chapter their lives, so he would say: listen. This is not afraid to die. He says I'm afraid of pain. Others like well we're going to try and make sure that you were in the least amount of pain possible. Less I got you saw was a blessing to watch him maneuver and live every day through the discomfort he would play all kinds of, funny things on tv and listen to music. but we need whatever had to do to feel good. Tucked her friend s, kids with

to the point where it was just unbearable. My prayer was that I could be there when he actually walked through the veil. You know when he actually made his transition, so I was very blessed to hold his hand speak to him and because you know when I was little when my parents are like you, the oldest you take, If you brothers make sure you take care, you brought this or ain't, and so not only for him, but I for my own sense of fun feeling like I do, but my parents would have wanted me to do and what I wanted to do. You know, I'm the eldest sister want to be sure they're. Ok, I just want to feel alone when he made that transition, and so that was a gift and ass. I am just grateful for his p. I would I imagine his peace to be,

I mean an end in them part of this, I would imagine, also has had your your mom. when you and your late teen, so factually your plane. Role of not just all their sex but to a certain extent here, like surrogate mom, I mean yeah. I was lucky that I don't look at things, in time any more as much as I look at things in in quality, I, like the thickness of a firm maple syrup or or molasses and life is, is thick like that. You know I don't look it is how much molasses is on the plate. I look at the fiscal sitting. There is either disgusted worked for me here. I would like to feel serbian fall. Full rich.

Because we don't know, we don't know we're not meant to know, and so I think, with that not knowing this and awareness of knowing that there's four. Bloody. At any moment it really reminds me to trim off the bullshit just trimming off just. you trying to be in someone else's head to me is a waste of time. I can either speak to someone about something that I might fear. They may feel

and they can either share it truthfully or not, and I can look at it and see how that those words feel if they ring true to me and then deal with that, and I feel that sir better use of my time when dealing with the world and people you know everything planet goes to my gut. That's the thing that I trust cause sometimes think thought can be so faulty, at least for me. You know unless there are thought compared to feeling or to intuition god yea though, compared to like information, because when you think about something it's built on information, at least in my head, us think it like okay. So when one is to call Maybe this around with that's not true. You know what you would think is the norm

May not be them norm anymore. The things that we have built our lives are and what we think we trust may not less surely be stable. You know the world shifting Walter changing in ah changing and I feel like I need to stay pliable, an open minded. You know Did I mean, as we sit here now, if you think back Thirdly, the earliest days of I'm curious this Is this a lens that you bring to the way you you live? Your life sort of like at this moment already feel like that touchdowns much earlier because of the loss or because of the then, where you were brought up in that sense of hyper vigilance at you sometimes had to carry

It's the sense of loss and the sense of constant fear into a thing come. You know up in the sixties. That's the you know everything look a particular way. You know the grandparents come over. You guys have to clean up because of that things have to be a certain way, and you know you can't you can seen, but not necessarily heard completely here. Just that whole thing of things have to be presented in a particular way And in some cultures that's kind of a poor thing. Remember going to bali and I was at a hotel and in one of the workers there was just so special to me. There was something about his smile, it felt honest, it felt true, it felt like it was

Like I'm working here and I have to smile for the people, it came from a very real, beautiful. Place that felt like sun on my skin and I was like your smile, was to so amazing sing in his like thank you and is very humble and kept talking in because what he ended up saying was. You know. We smile here it's to bring joy. You know ass its size, In a lot of people walk around looking how they feel on the inside and out, and in a lot of ways. That's a beautiful thing in another ways: it can be oppressive to the viewer right in our sometimes it if it gets on you now know. Sometimes I think I can get on yourself. You know you catch it going

The view certainly like why I look really well. I look how I feel right now need to. Let me see if I can remember how it looks like feel good and see if somehow that can reverse the way. I'm feeling you know, but I don't even know how I got down that road. yeah notice it is. It is interesting, though, whether that are our physiology can shift data being our emotional psychological state of being once we actually become aware of how are physically carrying herself how he physically, you know end at that. We have all had those new walking past a mirror moments, wait, wait what! right. Ok, now I get a. Let me see if I can actually do something. Ceylon assume music becomes a big

live your life and your day, and it sounds like it's to a certain extent. It becomes this the way that it was for your mom as or like a a place to touch stone is it became very much that for you early age to ya. It was sir. really, ok, so I my brothers were cool, would go outside and plain and stuff like that, but I was traumatized I just felt like I didn't wanna have to fight every single day. Just didn't. I felt like my can explain this. I guess my child mind. I've felt very fragile and to her. I didn't like fighting I didn't like. I didn't notice, and it you know it just

make any sense to me, and so I was felt out of place, and so I always seem to gravitate towards people who also resident needed that feeling of being out of place or people who are really kind in a really unkind environment. One of my best friends, who is no longer here, our an aim, was to wanna. Ah she knocked on my door, ah, must have been and she speaks to my mom she's, like hey, maybe Toby, I should go by you and I'm looking for my mom. Goes you of insular like who's. That no the person which introduce yourself and we were thick as thieves I mean to to our adult you know time and just

memories of those things in between all the madness. Is china at balanced me, but He was one of those girls who is also like she would watch the news. and see something terrible happen and she would sit down cry. She was way more sensitive than I was, which was, I thought, pretty sensitive think we really related to each other and that live on. I felt like I knew her song. I think she she knew why and how mister Miss having those kind of- and it's funny cause the older I get, and the more people transition to the next place and the more I miss people. You know the more I go wow I don't wanna be seventy. and feel like. I don't know anyone you know, and I it's like I I I

again a need to encourage not myself but other people to make us many connections is she can, You know it so easy to cleaner enow live in your phone alive in the if I live in an alternate world and fitted really walk out in the street and spend time with people and see if there's a connection to be made. You know it's a scary thing to kind of put yourself out there, but I think it's necessary. You know I so agree with that and yeah. I think we're in a my eye feels like we're in a moment really the last five years or so, where I. I feel that the level of sustained anxiety and awareness of. Isolation within the context of its theoretical connection, is

were feeling it. I dont know if so many people understand that this source of what their feeling is actually that. But if you like we're starting to away tell that to a certain extent, and- and I feel it there's a bit the pendulum swings starting to happen back to he can t we just go for a walk. you know rather sales- and I said hext. Yes, as you know it is so precious. I do feel that people realise that time is precious, and I know I feel that way. The older I get especially and saw who we spend our time with this really. It's a should be in and

one level. Even if it's uncomfortable it should be nourishing on some levels. And so you know you can live your life from a safe distance through the phone, because that's pretty safe and colored, you know test people out and pray for the best or you can actually just like walk the streets and spend some time with people, What's to stop. The beautiful thing tat met yet global. Private aviation leader is known for personalizing every detail of your travels because net, yet standard is not just to meet their definition of perfection. Its exceed yours discover more at net jets, dot com

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notes and user promo code, good life choose, I herb because one this matters I am was recently spit. With somebody who offered the invitation to find wonder to find amazement. In every moment of every day, by simply looking for you The idea that we think we have to go get on a plane do something I guess you northern lights, the streets and any the inter. That's amazing, the universe thing to do right, but at the same time like why, if that same feeling was accessible, ray moment of every day, and all you had to do is look for its an interesting experiment to sort of run like ten, you actually make part of your work to just persistently love for its interests. Thinkers I feel, like babies, get it because everything is so new right. You know you.

You know, get morass bearing the just like you know so thrilled it's like canada, meda, heathrow throws the rest of I love that I love you- babies rock because they they don't know well, I think they know everything without having knowledge. You know. I think that. that then being present in the moment and letting go right away unless it something such dramatic I mean I anyway go there by them, but when you see kids, you know that like they just like go easier than we do we, the more we, the more we were taught the more we try to hold onto things And baby kind of remind me: that's ok to be the moment and we're safe,

We spend all of our lives trying to get back to the place. We started exactly because I again there's that window. I can't remember what the age as it's like, four or five, or something like that where you start to become self aware, and as soon as that happens, you also start to be concerned about how you're being perceived by others, and have your showing up and whether you are going to be accepted or not. And that's the moment where we start her. Change who we are would to to find that sense of belonging and- and you know it's not it's not always a good thing. What's your earliest baby memory, do you have what you know what's so funny you ask that I dont have. Baby memory. But I have this we're. I am, I think it's

I'm sorry. I was literally just think about the sorts of money. You ask that so I spent the first couple years of my life on two hundred hundred twenties on the west side in new york city and my dad was gonna grad school and down, we really kind of twenty six to or sub might that right by riverside drive and had this then in a brownstone at this really strange, flash back tat memory, where my sir, like best little many toddler friend, had wandered out into the street and sat down and attract, came down the street straight over him, and he completely fine and like the parents were freaking out and running around and he sitting there like a case. What just happened, you know just completely went literally so well, and to this day I don't remember,

know if that's a legit member, like I I remember clear as day, and I don't think I made it up because it stayed with me. You know like in my fifties now and so If you ask us for some reason that literally dropped into my awareness yesterday, I was trying to think back what are my earliest memories. Yeah yeah apparent still with us there their fortune. Fortunately, Ass is: are you able to ask? oh yeah, I haven't gone back yet, but I actually, I will have some other really weird memories from that sort of like really short season. very early days, I think it'll actually freak them out in a good. Do you know they re like, because a lot of people think. Maybe they're, not gonna, let you know, but you know, according to the end, you have something like, as we know, really understand language, but we kind of- member of the field.

and the melodies of things and energies of things is one I believe, and then ass we get older weep, put meaning in words to that, but but the photos ass, those emotional photographs. I just don't go away that you take with you to the next sooner its lake known to me. real, and I have just so many photographs I would imagine well, it seems like you have lived a viscous life. deeply syrupy every love. Let's jumping That is more to sell. You end up on your hush, for music and performing arts, better

When you went it, wasn't it hadn't yet merged with them. Performing arch, I know, are like the famous laguardia yeah. It was on one hundred and thirty fifth street instead of the west side and the cds, whatever it is, and walking up that hill every day it's almost symbolic yeah. You did you think at that point. That your jam was gonna, be music or performing. I I knew I wanted to say was all I think I knew And I just wanted to be a sponge, and just one or have as many experiences I could have, and I felt like. the teachers which is so amazing. They would give me keys. Ah, to understand the math. theory on the beauty the textures and emotions

how to sing well with others inquires and am also made to these. Sir classes. Where would sing like italian and french and german areas or whatever, and it was just beautiful, a witness everyone else in their work in their fear. like. Oh my god, I gotta get in front of the class and saying you know that, but We were all kind of like freaked out. You know there was things that new felt that you could do well in their other things like huge question mark in that you're, just trying to be a sponge trying to fill in filling those little holes in the sponge. You know there. This was, in the city, suleiman, less reliable, mid. Seventy see here, which was such an interesting time in music to write? Finally, the the golden years of r and be to a certain extent, but you sound like you were drawn to to us.

I mean I know you spent some time in queens college after that. Studying opera were curious. What was what it opera give you that you are looking for I'm not even sure I kind of felt like weird ways. I look back on it now. future than a mad acquaints college, whose name is talked a robber white and he was, is a beautiful saw. He would give me dreams. He would give me hope he would give me lessons that I couldn't afford. He gave me.

Things to listen to, and he gave me foundation vocally like just how to keep my voice healthy and that I just always carry that with me everywhere. I went and was wasn't really I would see the teachers and they were groovy, but there was something about that first connection, have to singing and understanding the breath in the die for emic support, blah blah blah blah and just all this great stuff come to find out because back then I couldn't afford to go to juilliard. So I went to queens college and- and they were amazing- and I always kind of wondered what it would be like to have the juilliard experience you can find out. Ah I forget where I saw DR white, but

now teaches that juilliard just got a funny, she said you ve gotta be had at, but on your own terms, ryanair re such as funny how life is sometimes in you, you just lax and choose some of it. You know some of those concrete thoughts. Having your head. There was something about having that stability that classical music gave me a gave me because my mind, we're gonna, be all over the place had listened to all kinds of music but what it was around me and I just like. Oh, this is kind of cool you know I would listen to bury the franklin this is some called ain't no way and in the back and I didn't notice at the time,

houston singing the soprano part. Really high really operatic sounding to me, but it was just natural. It was in the threads of the music. I was listening to anyway that back color assistance voice and the way that it we have played in the air and the feeling that I got when I heard it or when it was seen, in church need here the high soprano kind of singing doing her thing. It wasn't the colors of of classical music was already familiar. To me, because it was already in the rhythm impulse lose music. I was listening to or if listening to it, was a red open from west, story that were used to listen to the thick inside you here at different times,

worse and different, colors and different. You get different visions. Ah. The messages were coming through the music, and so I have all these. For pictures in my mind and colors in my mind. So, by the time I got to music in our analysis, like This is amazing, while an orchestra who dares bed all my god is acquired advantages, the library, since of sound, and so you know having having the gift to go into queens college meeting. Doktor White was really wonderful. me so interesting to write as you had so you you find this person who are so much who eventually ends up at this like super esteemed institution in europe, but but which is also known as a pretty fierce and hyper competitive pressure cooker, essentially to have access you being mentored by somebody who was

level where they could eventually teach there, but without that same context of everybody, fighting and scrapping to be the best you can get chosen to go to this next place was probably a blessing, and I didn't realize it at that time. When I look back, I just got home. I take a deep breath and I go oh. Dodged that bullet yeah. I mean that bullet is good. For some people, though, what I mean, like you, know, right, it's I'm not mad. I think it's a it's all about how you're wired exactly I think it would for me. I think it would have been too intense. I don't think I would have survived that very well the Meanwhile, what while you're at queens I guess it was around then that you start getting around the city Yeah you know. You me different people, somehow another forget how there was hanging out clause.

In talking friends in the office, and you start to If you tribe, right your lifelong tribe, and so you know you get together and do these gigs and you might get paid thirty bucks. You know for five sets a night at sir. Corner bar folks eject crazy and innovate. You just trying to be heard it just dollar thing. You said and get home in one piece it was in it was good. I've loved things background, and so when I get a chance to sing some lead, it always felt uncut I was so used to singing background for people. I loved, laying the harmonies into being the bed for, like just beautiful harmony,. So having to thing lead with, little matic from April. At the same time, it was kind of fun to

it was a challenge, and so as a crew- and you know, got more experience in people will go hey wanted to succession work might be like yeah, you know cause back, then it was more about. I think for me. I couldn't believe someone was actually paying me to do some then I loved him loose is just like having it I realize that every human, whether you or not Is a unique. Saw a unique fingerprints in that, We're not necessarily booking your time because you're not unique the booking your time, because there's something about you that makes them wanna go. That's the energy needs for this, you now in the early days and even curious now, were you call with that covered with with

people looking at you and and saying you're different in a good one, but I'm curious whether like how how that landed with you, I think Your face just said. I always felt different anyway. You know it was difficult for me. You know to me Friends when I was young, I always felt like an outsider so yeah. So I think I was comfortable with with being with the means. the music didn't judge me. The music didn't beat me up the music kind of healed me and so music was my friend. You know everything else. I felt like a chair about first margin: well, then, what's the intention with boos? What are you really saying to me? You know I just couldn't trust anything around me and feel low

didn't feel safe, so yeah I felt safe with the music music was just like now that I understand there sounds like DR white was really one of the first big mentors for you, but then not too long after a couple of years, then you meet luther Vandross, oh my god, who is out as it sounds like he he was certainly the next big mentor. How? How does that come to happen? I was doing another shows Do our thing started with the crystals and work with the marvellous, but it wasn't the marvelous proper. manager his name, was larry marcia AK, I'm hoping still around, but he owned. The rights to the name of marvel. It's I dunno how that worked out, but they were like a couple of different marvellous and nobody was an original member in the group that I was in spirit as I was that boy menudo

can't rotated new kids, I'm ok, yeah. I was crazy and saw the choreographer for the more relates me too audition for luther Roma was doing chain, I knew about change, which is a group that luther recorded, a son called the clue of love and just a lot of big heads and said it was doing up between the marvellous and Change the sky has me to addition, so I did em and their dish and changed my life I walked into the room. There were her sorrow and there was alpha. Anderson who serve famous were singing with chicken with luther their wise Brenda white king amazing outer gorgeous voice, saying

through for many years and another gentleman named philip blue, who sang tenor at the time and luther is sitting at the piano, enter you snack and on something enter. I come in Its summer time limit was very hot and I just never clue, but I call myself putting on what I thought was my best put forward outfit. Which was the leather skirt and July june, sometimes, which was insane and slight polyester blue top. I can still see it may happen. I didn't know anything really about make up and all that kind of stuff such I just came, came a natural, And he just asked me to sing a budget for things and I felt like I was back in music and are the way that he expressed himself

and come to find out later that he was an english teacher. I didn't know that, or substitute teacher is made sense. Some of the questions he was asking me what was asking you to just I connected exactly with what he was saying and his passion about, he was not kidding around. You know it real it's this lake, You wanted to see how well I listened. How well I understood and how well executed and arm before. Ah, even I was the first person he saw and issues you know don't mention that to any of the girls. I still need to see the rest of the ladies. He says, but if you can dance you got this gig, he was good. You know I was like. so excited, and then I got really freaked out because I knew the really strong dancing, but luckily,

the creator for, and he gave me a simple what they call step touch. You know we can do inside I something simple that wasn't gonna like freaked me out: and so with? It was ok with that. I was willing to work hard at you know, making my two left feet right. So yeah beautiful and just the way that he cared about every detail. I felt like likely safer exam. The lights in the ceiling like watching and put together show the music. The record the jail colours for different moods in the music. Positioning, the connection of movement and what he was trying to convey to the audience all every little detail, every bead on account. Every thing was really important him when so The first to make up my make up time by

made me so I was told to turn away from the mirror, and so by the time he was done padding laughing in. Smelling glue- and god knows what else fixing my hair and spraying me down like a bedbug just and then luther came in, saw my face and he looked really pleased and then they turn around and look in the mirror, and I was like. Oh my god always thought you know I felt like I was being introduced to an alter ego no person that I I I knew me, but I didn't feel worthy to be I'd, never see myself turn up like that is so it took me. some breaths to kind of make the connection like It's ok to have my back street and my chin, a pie and shoulders back and feel good about this present

should that luther S gifting the audience and making the connection with the vision of his music. So I think a lot of that also made me a bit better about myself, because I knew the internet is awash with my face and no whose I find that, but still have the feeling of hearts it's to stand up straight and heavy shoulders back and have your head held high enough. I this beautiful, it's so interesting that use the phrase alter eager, which I translate as the one so indifferent this was a being that's always been inside of you that some reason in this moment like it's, it's given permission to take the lead to step into which is at that when you're on stage

there is a ferocious, a loving heart it energy, but there is a fierceness There is a like I am out here world to you, which is amazing and beautiful and powerful, and and sitting here in the studio with you. There is still this amazing, this and beauty and power in greece, but the energies profoundly different allison. I was always curious answered Their short of because I've known so many people, there were literally say this, step into almost like another identity when they, when they step out in front of other people, whether to business weathers performing arts, whatever it may be, and it's not like it's there, not faking it they're, just given access to a different part of themselves and as soon as its done this or like step back out into the other part. yeah, it's interesting cosette,

I feel like we are. Sometimes made to feel we're supposed to mould into one absolute space and I feel There were so many things I think we ve been so many things. I think we ve lived through it. Survived so many things and I think it's all to be. kind of more than one yet and yang of of yourself. I think that feels joyous and fallen It keeps us in that baby mode. You know where everything is really knew. You know way Everything is like possible, where you know I imagine, I can go back.

So when I was little, I remember my brother being brought in from the hospital, so had to be palpably caused to be by two years old and I remember the feeling of like Who's that I remember my like my mom and dad saying that chisel brother, that you little brother and at the feeling of being aware of another new life. Being that young I like can, I Well, then, can I touch them they're like no? No, no! No! No! No! No! I don't remember if I said the words I just remember going to my brother and them you know, gonna shoot me way and the feeling that I felt that

can put words to know that I didn't have then was like. You said he was mine. He said he's my brother. He knew these mine. Why can I touch him? What can it holding these? Like? It's my new friend, that's me. I need to understand this new little being in the peace. I remembered I could look edison peaceful face. You feel like you, looking at home, the universe and I think we have them inside ourselves all the time and we don't accessing their complex beings you end up toying with later for more than twenty years. I guess re until he passed on to them

I live so that started in their midst eighties S, early eighties and shortly after that, couple years into that you're saying another hall? yeah. So tony king, who was a publicists for the stones, ah came to luther Andrews concert and so at the time well, I really know anything about the stones at the dinner harlem, shuffle miss you that was plain on army stations, a couple of things, probably on the This is what it was really like a stoner. You know there are just like everything and.

So I didn't realize at the stones have taken some time off and so make was looking to do. These sallow dates saw turn a king had suggested may come down in addition for mic, I d chauffeur, make I get the job, then the stars back together and I cast the whole process of having our titian again. Another human being up a bunch of people was just like a lot with everything else. If he had to do getting ready, getting back together is a band with tour and the whole production the whole universe it there. The deal with, and so I go to london, where I met, keep and run here. go to london to sing on the steel wheels, album and town I get to me running in key.

And I guess they needed to feel me and see if I was the right person to to stay to work for that and I just remembered how sweet they were- and I remember key and when I get up to you, know, walk over to meet him. He gets about the chinese thing. The refugees us at the further end was more this wash beautiful, imaginary pirate energy, but these gonna kill. You kind of it was just like a bad thing and I'm standing next to bernard fowler, end.

Nice we've had a conversation, but I didn't really understand what keith was saying and I got to benign asic. What did he say and it was it was he was just like he. Basically, you feel a lot of what he says, sometimes the way that he speaks is kind of like a melody and an energy in a groove. I didn't make it we single word because I was still getting used to the way he communicated its like. Now I told Then everything he says but its it seems natural to me now because I'm looking at his eyes and looking at the way that he moves, I'm looking at you know just how communicates is just so musical to me, even though I got down that road with

about. You know just how you began with them. I must say that that lead you to to join them on stage will to this day, still or really not since use large till I got two thousand there. in answer to you haven't about that's right so again, but a couple of decades, long, yeah so you're a kind of moving back and forth during this window of time between turn with luther turn with the stones being in stadiums and arenas of all sizes, and in the middle of this I guess and early nineties, ninety nine in ninety one. There is an interesting moment where, like okay, so I'm singing backup with the yolk, with one of the most iconic voices ever and with one of the most iconic bands ever and and

The thing that you will love more than anything else and then there's this opportunity for you to do to potentially be the lead in a really big way. You, you get a record deal you record, and then you release a song that kind of explodes and ends up if he was like number one on the charts, and then you get the grammy. How are you experiencing that moment of of stepping into the lead spot. It's weird because just as you're asked me than enough, I've ever had this thought before, but I guess you know I look up to luther and look up to the people I get to work for and in the stone to make and all of them. They all have this amazing energy togethers a ban very different personalities that just you know charlene. Just all of them is just so beautiful together and so

I, when I wash off my face that makeup goes down the drain. It's just me and that person didn't feel worthy of feeling like I can even approach. I can I put this. I feel like they had a plan. They knew exactly if they wanted to do. I didn't have one I didn't have one day, meaning they're the record company. There are I'm sorry. They like luther ok, knew very well what his his purpose, god at gallegos, Galvis the stones they held there. that had to say you know they knew, who they were was still learning all. I was an

I wasn't sure my all purpose was to serve rate So it was like I just want to do a great job. I just want to be supportive and I wanted to great job, and that is important, but I think if you're gonna present yourself it's kind of helpful to have some sense of purpose and I couldn't quite figure out back than what that was sought shifted to. I need to make the record company happy right Fast forward to now, I can feel like. a kind I had the purpose all along. I didn't know it

like I live for the opportunity to breathe life into space through the vibration of sound through the imagery of of what a melody does with the words of a song, ah, ah makes how it makes people connect how it conjures. Visuals for each person and it it's probably a lot more simple, then what I was trying to make it in my head back, then you know I just need to connect there I made it so interesting there. You know you, you had this opportunity to step out. You had a big success out of the gate.

And then there's no second out which I think a lot of people were really surprised about, but with the here and now it's been a couple of decades. You know, with the benefit of hindsight and just hearing how you just shared what your deeper sense of purpose is is built around. It actually makes perfect sense, like it's almost like at the time. would imagine, was re actually trying to figure out shriek what's happening here. The elegant control issues, and also like is as am I supposed to be this person. Is it expected is it? Am I not living up to my quote potential if I dont step out and b that lead person and an end in hindsight. It feels again. I would imagine that denmark was really anxious for you, and set it feels like your bigger purpose, has really just

was it it was what you said in the beginning of our conversation. It's about the harmony for air. You know it's a being a part of something and have a opportunity to step up every day and express this essential part of yourself in a way that makes you feel good and potentially lift others at the same time and whether that's in the role of being on stage with other people or being in the maybe that's that's didn't matter as much as other people may be thought it should to you. So interesting is seeing the process you're speaking I'm seeing on this. Are the images come to me? It's you know when I ll america came out, it was very you had ever video They were ever video. Does a big days of empty me worthy ass. She showed videos. Ah, then it was sir extension and a beautiful tool. But it gave me lunch It's already. You know was worried about you know

to fathom or not this enough, manette baron love my to this matter than a man there's like in a being Did the microscope for feeling. For me, I felt like a little the vote in this really crazy, the ocean, and all these are the big boat to pass me bind sucking me under you notice, really it was difficult for me, and so I can feel now that I'm older and I met method Wait where what's inside of me and who I am, is so much more important than my physical. What would be considered physical flaws? I feel so much freer and so much more relaxed and so much more healed, and when I was when I was younger and considered q, you know adorable and sexy in all that's the kind of

you know, people sometimes fence in the really sweet little mean any harm, and they do this. But they'll send me really all pictures like you know when I was twenty or thirty year in some crazy thing with make on stage or whatever and the like a mad at any of it, you know that was the otter ego and our. I was good with that. me because on the inside I knew I was in. There was the performance, you know, be they get it you get it. I, on these cool crazy shoes and in its its kind exciting, you know, so I don't. I know it's not that I don't love those moments, but some people only look at those moments. That's all they can see, and you know just in life. You know, I'd look back it relationships and have had where you have felt good physically, and you know you with your man

You know you're appreciating each other physically and you felt powerful and you felt in like ok, I feel sexy in performing control, and now you know when you go back to situations, the same person and you revisit that he realized Nobody is the same anymore. You know it's like one I love about. You is what I loved about you in the beginning. You know all this other stuff is just form it's just a photograph of where we're at in time, but the essence of who you are is dislike pets. What I fell in love with that that to me stands the test of time. It's like you know. I don't care. If you have a belly, allow care of you going bald. I will care

you know. If you you sick, I don't care, you know it's, it's about really loving the essence of the of the human being inside an, and you know grateful too. let them in any way that feel comfortable in them. In the present moment, as you're speaking, I'm wondering if you're speaking as much about yourself as others coming to that place in the context of like how do I feel about me kneeling over this long window of time yeah. I. I think a bit of both. I think this time goes on. I just wanna be healthy in every way, but I can muster to swallow How to live life and breathing, please help me, I can t- and you know,

Wake up in the morning, in the first instance of opening your eyes and guy another him out As your touring you, so you move back and to continuing to tar is really between them. And then the stones, and until the early two thousand and ten eleven twelve and then This interesting moment happens right. This movie drops mantra twenty feet from stardom wit, features you and a group of other women who had been back up singers fur many of the greatest voices, the greatest bands of the last three four or five decades. In some cases whose voices we ve all been singing as as

population for years and not even realising that the band we thought we loved the lead singer. Two voices are like what we were really keen on your voice and highly love and all of these amazing other women and that those who are really as much, if not more, the voices of our generation's our stories in our and our lives, and And curious, when that movie comes out, is it makes a big splash ends up winning and ask her with an I guess. You end up winning an oscar also to a certain extent or it's it's connected, So in that comes out, I'm curious at the moment that you are in your life in your career. How does that land with you He knew

with the stones for so many years and being a woman in my fifties. At that point it is turned sixty last year, so doing this episode, I'm in my fifty's getting older, I'm getting fatter, I'm getting tired and getting in our afraid of. What's in my future, I don't know, what's gonna happen to me, I didn't think things. very well, and so you constantly always living your lifelike whence next Oh, what's an actual wins and yeah in so weird place to be so. You know that's always sort of In the background for the safe for my late forties going through my fact, is it so it's kind of my fear in pursuing in a work with this? Don't you pay for you work after that after the tourism within your back to try to figure out. How am I gonna work? You know.

And on the road. You know you ve got your friends tickets in anyhow. They make connections transfixed afar. U turn. It's crazy, and so you have to kind of reestablish yourself nigger back then so that back and forth, and back and forth and trying to figure stuff out and not need the music business changed so much so you will come back, maybe the session working now the business has changed some kind of flipped out, you know and am home, and I get a call, fan, stinks manager, coffee and she says you know, there's a german and give reason that wants to speak about a documentary. What to do about background sinews cycle. That's nice! You know, I didn't think very much of it because you know what's that, commissioner, you said I think about is usually back then was on a different.

Level. Then, let's a feature film, you know it's documenting something and saw usually have you paid for it. You don't think, It is a source of income. It's just something to document is what I think about saw a cycle. Through said that he wants to do that. You know, and I didn't know anything about gill and his history. I just know that when I met him, I thought the sense of. Just how beautifully was how warm, how intelligent, how loyal to beautiful kids in a wife and just where he was speaking to me, it was very like a child but with a lot of life, experience and he had to vienna nervousness sixties at that time, and he says well and I saw you ah with jewelry allow loudly bialy backing up staying at her for this

on a winter night project in his address I couldn't stop watching you guys. He says I have been thinking about doing this film and I want to ask you some questions. As I call this the scene, I'm thinking should be, all women should be guys and girls as well. I would do both, but it's your dime. You know it's like they think all everyone is really important. So we keep meeting we keep talking. Eventually, he emails me and says he found the director were never enter as our cycle. It's really good. It would just kind of go back Fourth, and he would turn the terminal ideas and thinks he would share, and then I get to meet morgan and he's just the sweetest. He can looks up at you behind from behind his glasses and you feel like ok

Hey, I'm coming in I'm coming into your soul. Going to try and figure out is ok. We could get it's it's just so lovely be so polite about it enter. So we do the film like an anathema how long it took, but I was just just come in. For these we know sessions with with morgan. The next thing I know you have still work in china in honour of the stones enter, and then they sell them. It's finish. Can you you know come to sunday, six a dog went to Saint Anthony, was afraid of what I was gonna see because seen any footage and seen anything. I don't you think. we're going. Public must look like a nut, because it was also

the time my friend was sir transitioning through her toilet transistor through a cancer. So when you know I would get up in the morning is sometimes I had nothing left in me I'll go to the hospital in the night and went to her souls above the whatever. So I felt wrung out, I didn't have the end she D, I didn't, have a desire to look in the mirror and go gee. I think I'm just gonna try and poland to make up and cover the pain that I'm going through right now I should like this is what it is and working with people that I love they'll get it do you know. So you know whenever the the crew comment. I should like to know what this is real. This is what it is, and I want to put make up over what it is you know so one into the found I go to sunday, anson morgan's, like

Ass, I should I say it beforehand is like now I found him in my experience is better for you to just see it like the audience. Is it is a hard you heather, I think. Ok, any literally did I sat there sat right next to me, I'm looking at the phone line All of a sudden I'm going into the store, he is not just my own, but everyone else's so much I did not know and the way that he put it together and I almost wish that it could have been- more than one focus. There was just so much information, I mean they should love to see, went on and on male focus in a male vocalist. On musicians on this so much information

that we don't now, and it's so beautiful to be able to see it in such an honest way. Yeah I felt look to be a part of the project. And so, when the oscars came around, I was on tour with the stones in japan, and I was trying my best to figure out a way to get from Japan to to to you know to to the oscars, but it it just. It went against. You know when I looked at it and it's us like, I can't miss a show. I can't do it. You know just going back to my What I felt was right. You know their story, the stone story, supportive of my life, if it's well, you know just a tiny part in heart of that was also in the film and I just didn't feel right to disappear. You know and possibly not make.

one of their shows cause. That's what and therefore so I watched. Ah, I watched the oscars some let some ah t v studio in japan while it was happening, and I I sat- and I cried- and I watched as darlene love do the acceptance speech and it was just so beautiful. It happened the way it was supposed to minot a thinker You know her sound when I think about the crystals and all that stuff. I was listening to her. You know our lives all intertwined Mary Clayton. I was listening to her. You know our lives intertwined and I think you know even watching Judith my life into twines. In the sense of the uncertainty you know, trying to figuring, figuring yourself out and now she said such a beautiful place in her life. You know she's older she swore season, there's a woman, she's always maintained

It then and she's to really well so yeah it. Sir. a blessing, and it was strange feeling, like Ok, so you're part of this documentary. That's really with all these other great women and you're doing The stones are so now, I'm getting all these phone calls about doing shows read all of a sudden said this becomes a catalyst, something entirely new yeah. It was crazy, so it kind of, Luckily I was working with the linda goldstein, who manages sir Bobby mcferrin, and I I begged her to please help me, because I have no clue what to do. I've never had to book my own dates, sin

get up booking aging of what about bandit, high musicians of figure out songs. What's all the fuss about what we do and so sheep you know she taught me off the ledge in there and took me on, and I'm just so grateful to her because she she dreams like a child. You know, I don't think, don't worry be happy would have been shared with them. If it had not been with the way that she looks at life, cs, who bobby mcferrin? If you know she just she's playful and she thinks she thinks differently and She also gets she know so much shared. She know so much starfishes lay some stuff. She comes up with them dislike. How do you even know, All this stuff, but she's like

one of those kiki girl. She loves information. She gets off on information and things that matter. You know, and so I love her artsy sensibilities and if it really works for me I mean at me, you know it's. every managers style is so different and focus is so difficult she resonates for me and that really this is a new chapter. I mean you ve been out. Second, twenty forty the thirteen twenty which, with your own ban, cause your own crew and, and you are very much front and center- I feel more comfortable, I'm so glad full two grand tunnel, which isn t see my arduous and use good writer he's what I got with first and groundwater is really his concept eastern records, his towns kind of like his his group

this thing, so it was a way for him to get more exposure with the name and for me, the half, a band that I can count on me and so it's gc and terrier pino who's. The drama interesting on the other, a really long time which I love. They speak it this music language and then ah even carol, replace base out of Oklahoma was living in brooklyn and insults. It's been the four of us, you know four for some years now and so I feel really grateful that have had them to walk this work and kind of learn myself. They all bring something special to the table. They bring their hearts first of all and they also bring me

Sense of security, you know each of them in a different way, and I love the way that they listen. That to me is the most magical thing and I love their fearlessness. It kind of makes me feel braver. You know so it's been. It's been pretty amazing there so as as we come full circle sitting here in this container of good life project. If I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up to live occurred. Good life is to at least for me, is to be able to breathe in, without feeling like I'm choking or without feeling a heaviness. And to release every inch of the rough with a purpose. Thank you cure your angel thing.

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