So there's an interesting thing that often happens when europe. It is rather stake. Your claim, in particular these were industry or field or domain and at the same time you come from a long lineage story or family that has they become somewhat legendary in that same space, it gives you certain opportunities, because you're around so much of their genius azure coming up and exposed to so much, so early in life and at the same time it also things a whole new set of experience is expected. actions and reactions from other people around you that you have to grapple with that in some way has been the experience of my guest today, madison mcferrin, the last name burn. You probably know, because her dad is legend

bobby mcferrin at her grandfather was actually an opera singer who sang at the metropolitan opera in new york, so when we sat down at twenty seven years old, fairly young in her career, yet making a really astonishing serve step into that world of music really interesting. Conversation about where she came from her influence is growing up in a profound musical and well known family and how she kind of now get that found her way and continues to really explore what at that she wants to be doing. What is the voice, the impact, the message, the artistry, that she wants to bring to the world ass? She creates and defines and maps her own profession and her own life, and who does you want to become, as an artist and human being. And what difference does she want love. This conversation, I'm sorry to share with you on Jonathan fields, and this is good life project.

the How does a I even work where it is creativity come from? What's this, where, to living longer ted radio, our explores the biggest questions with some of the world's greatest thinkers. They will prize challenge and even change. You listen to and purist head radio, our whatever you get your PA guests So the ten percent happier podcast has one guiding philosophy. Happiness is still that you can learn. So why not embrace it? It's hosted by dan harris journalists who

a panic attack on national television and then send out on this journey of transformation and he's now on a quest to help others also achieve peace and happiness, and every week Dan talked you top scientists, meditation teachers. Even the odd celebrity in wide ranging conversations that explore topics like productivity, anxiety and lightness, psychedelic and relationships. The interviews cover everyone from bernay brown to cerebral ass to SAM Harrison more. I love learning from his questions and experiences and incredible guess think of listening to ten percent happier as a work out for your mind, fine ten percent happier where every listen to pot casts library. is supported by the economists who the world seems to be moving faster than ever: climate economics, politics, a and culture, after you look. Events are unfolding at a rapid pace and it's hard to stay on top of it, which is why I love that now, for the first time, you can get a one month, free trial of the economist, so you won't miss a thing I have literally,

Reading the economist who want to safer decades. I love that it covers more than just economics and finance as you'll find coverage on topics from politics to science, to technology, even arts and the environment. The economist offers this global perspective with really incredible clarity and deeper analysis, so you can dive in two specific issues or catch up on current events. I was just checking out this article on the changing landscape of tech, jobs for recent computer science granted everything is changing so fast. It was a real eye opener and with the economists free trial, you'll get access to in depth independent coverage of world events through podcast webinar. an expert analysis as soon as you sign up if you're interested in subjects like this go to economist dot com, slash project for full access to the topics that matter too new and original analysis as events unfold, that's economist, dot, com, slash project or just click. The link in the show notes to start your one month, free trial with the economist today, because the world won't wait.

I know from sir like a pretty early age. You are clearly you're exposed to music. He come up in a in a in in a musical family. I guess we should just sort of throw that out there, yet the petty reanimated right so grandfather. I guess. It really is where a lot of it started. Is that fair to say in terms of like the professional musicians, I would say so it it seems like even he growing up his father was a preacher. parents. I am assuming that there was largely church music happening in the house, but Far as I know my grandfather and his wife, my grandmother worm, probably the first like professional musicians to come a kick off the legacy of store of sorts, but he would. He ended up being the first african american sign to the met

So that's it, I'm not insignificant. That's pretty! He is for those who are in sir, like familiar with new york. The metropolitan opera newness, legendary sir institution nea had hand up. He grew up man because off yes, he had his hand up in new york, you know I'm not quite sure what led him to new york. I know that he was at fisk for college java and I believe he and my grandmother met in d. If I'm not mistaken, she went to howard, but I'm actually sure as to how they ended up in new york. Has my dad and his sister were both born here in manhattan, but I'm not sure what led them here in the first place be. Do you recall him to do relationship with him, or was he not much? He? my grandmother divorced from my dad was in high school. I want to say and

I he he and my dad and have had like an on and off relationship of sorts, and so I only interacted with him a handful of times before he passed when I was in high school, but I was you know. I talked to him on his birthday and like that kind of thing, but we were we weren't super close right so that those you have other and then your dad bobbing affair and has been yeah, like a legendary voice in the world, the music for solid fifty plus years. Probably at this point I mean, let's see he, he decided, you wanted to be a singer florio like just because he was a pianist first, they unit his hair when he was twenty seven and muscle she started they kind of later and yeah I mean he was singing. He would play piano, bars and likes in play at the same time, but he decided to solely focus on music when he was twenty seven. So that was

That was seventy seven rice, with whatever a few years since then, courtier sprang into the air. His are suddenly choice, every kind of like when he went all in the trade around. Is your or now that's exactly the eight. I am right. Do you reflect on that? A lot I reflect on that a lot. Actually, it gives me a lot of comfort just to know that somebody of his stature granted granted, even though he had decided to become a singer at twenty seven, is the guy who was like a literal gee at the piano, I key went to juilliard when he was six or something like that. You have a head like got that a school program that he got into when he was in cambridge garden, so it's not as if his ear hadn't been developed prior to that happening, and when you have a profession opera singer as a father and a voice teacher mother and in know your

raised around that environment. It's not as if he just like started from the bottom of. Vocally see in a hurry like that he had a very solid foundation, but just to know that he really was he he developed his own style. That was, unlike what other people had heard. You can't really go back and say, like oh body, mcferrin sounds like this: are our you know like you can say that he sounds like other instruments kind of wait. You say that, like he, oh I hear influence of this singer, like so strongly in hand because, like you, really developed his own thing, so the fact that he was twenty seven when he decided to go on that journey is very much like. Oh, if you really like put in the work, it doesn't really matter at what age you started. I dont have to have been five

and in a working on improv for my whole life in order to have become of legend there. It's almost like at the same time, the unfastening with people who. the who in some way, are exposed to certain worlds, but never, sir, like stepan in a really full immersive way later life. I've seen so many people and fine arts and performing arts do that where there were almost working. I mean like your dad was yes, he was involved in the weather music. I seen so many other people, their school teachers. Are there. In some tolerate and career, and they ve always had musical arc sticker painterly ear, or I am the kind of assume that path wasn't. That means something happens little two eyes like. Maybe it is, and career and they blossoming did these just profoundly impact artists yeah totally, and I think my dad has said that he didn't want to be a singer

you know that of rebellion in a way that is about his his errand opalescent like us, and you didn't want to do that and then in a hideous caught the bug- and I think it's also or to my older brother taylor. He is a producer and he just released an album and it's the first time. He singing on the whole album, and he similarly was like not trying to sing because of our tat. We ve things was kind of of alden whatever, where they want to write. So soon that manifesting you that, because, if like If there's a same resistance I mean and and every kid to a certain sensor is, you know, resist their parents totally have cars that show up in you in a similar way or not yeah. I never had a hesitation singing itself. I think also because I am it might be because of the fact that growing up on the youngest by oldest brother is ten and a half years older than me, and our little brother is six and a half years older than me, and so I was like I I came after, but don't worry fame.

All of that stuff, and so my dad was, around a lot more for my childhood than he was with my older brothers? He was on the road a lot when they were kids, and I think because of that, that also meant that he and I got to sing together more, and so I think the fact that I had a different relationship with him and singing growing up as a kid there wasn't for me, it was like. Oh, this is fun, but just because We are applying all the time like that was a source of funds for the two of us and it It wasn't really until later in life that I had more hesitation towards me much singing but improv. In scouting, and that kind of thing, like a lot of people, assume that, like that's my bread and butter and I'm like nah That's more so like where I draw a line, and I guess my systems more so comes from the fact that, like I write.

words more than the sick. You know, but it definitely is its very much a looming thing in our like I it's hard when you grow up and you you really have a full understanding of the impact that you're one of your parents has on the world. You know like that's, that's something that is kind of hard to grasp, especially when it's not like he's so famous everywhere we went, he was getting stopped and I guess it was different in the height, but I wasn't around for that, but I didn't I wasn't aware of just how influential he was, and so what I didn't really letter intimidate me into all of a sudden. I'm in religion, everybody's, like freaking out like way. Why does this mean so is really college finance. When there's rugby,

position of for your dad was not he? U, but really to other people like that been, can aware also where an especially just from the standpoint of I didn't know that so many people in my peer group were aware of him and like idolized him that, with some that I had attributed more to people in my parents, generation buzz and just ass. I was, I was far more aware that people around there if the group knew who he was, but I was rarely around people, my age who knew he who he was beyond, don't worry that you know it was like Oh, he had this one song that some of us even alive for- and I hear it in pop culture- references all the time, but all of a sudden, I'm with these people, who are my peers and they're coming up to me being like your dad, is my biggest idle I don't know what to do it that you are just like take care and exactly artists like freaking out, but he's help

we move into my dorm room though, and it's like what am I supposed to do with this? I might just supposed to kind of am, I suppose, The old man am I supposed to shy away from an especially as a crime the student. I knew that I wanted to sing. I didn't know in what capacity cause when I was in kindergarten, I wanted to be a pop star and by the time I got to college, I knew that. That's not what I wanted and I like hadn't really, written a lot of music and so then tat. All of a sudden, like have all of these expectations in a way that I was like woe minos, it was. It was odd gear yeah I mean how how kind of like interesting and weird for you certainly dawn on that. It's, like you know your dad is a sky. You know, he's talented and has been singing other people, but because I guess jewelry came out what late eighties idiot sir, and I get a lot of your peers. When you had college warning, born ratan

you also, I mean you're so surround yourself with a different set of. You ended up at berkley music store right, so everybody there was already steeped in this war alright. So this is not sort of like the general public. who's your age exactly, and I think that that was also a different environment, because I that was the first time that I really would have been put in that kind of environment. I went to the quick her pride school growing. Up that you know it's like they're. Obviously there were musicians, but it's If I didn't go to music school, you know, and I didn't do a lot specialized music stuff. I went to a performing arts camp for a couple of years, and that was a taste of it. You know, but it and I went to berkeley- has a summer program that I in the summer before my senior year of high school, but being at berkeley was the first time that I was like fully immersed in. We are all musicians like this is music all the time in our, so that was very much a new expire

it's funny. What was that lakefront before going into broadly defined at that point, a radio like. Ok, I don't know gonna look like but like this, my thing is singing we understand. I am I I known that since I was five, what happened when your five- I don't know. I just like that It was a thing where I you know people are like. Oh what do you want to be when you grow up and before that it was like a tightrope walker, and then I think I just was like my dad sayings, he seems to have fun. That's clearly, career you can have even before under stood what we are really was passed like I like singing. I think I could do this, so I pretty much may that decision and never entertained any other options. Many other options that are entertained had to do with singing but was like another form of it. There so interesting. It interesting to rakers dimension like you

two other brother, six and a half in ten years older than you so part of their experience, I guess would be, would have been music to a certain extent, also taking their dad away from them for windows of time right, whereas wasn't part of your experience. You have this totally different relationship. Well, it was because he was still gone a lot. Ok, but I from what I hear like he was mom was essentially a single mom, particularly with my older brothers cassettes, before don't worry really hit off and you know he was trying to we'll her career, and he was on the road for months. At a time, verse is with me, you know he was gone still a decent amount, but my two best friend one of them. Her mom was a businesswoman who was on the road all the time other one. Her dad was a business consultant who was on the road all the time, so that was just kind of my.

for you. It's not a big right. It didn't. It didn't seem like anything out of the ordinary that he was gone, because my two best girlfriends, that I was hanging out with all the time in kindergarten. Their parents are not they're, not musicians, but they're gone, so it was. Something that I thought was weird or strange by any means yeah, it's just. It was for a different reason right. Exactly there, when I was like oh apparent, is just not home a lot. That's normal met yet Global private aviation leader is known for personalizing every detail of your travels, because not yet standard is not just. meet their definition of perfection, it's to exceed yours discover more at net jets, dot com, Let right it is supported by I heard, so I am always looking for new ways to get more nutrients into my daily routine to promote.

the all around better well being and recently I have discovered- I urge a one stop shop that offers the best curated selection of wellness products at incredible values. Then everything from vitamins and sports supplements to bath products can care and make up. I had said

much fund, exploring their website and finding things, and I really want it like thorns, calcium, magnesium, mullay capsules and vitamin d three k to both of which support bone and muscle health and immune function. I urge that just made it so easy to find what I need, because you can search by category or even wellness, concern and best of all, I feel safe, knowing that every product is tested, verified and sold directly by. I herb so it's time to get your health in check with. I urge our listeners get twenty two percent off your first order when you use code good life at I herb dot com, that's twenty! Two percent off your first order at I h e r b, dot com, promo code, good life or just click. The link in the show notes and use a promo code. Good life choose I herb because, while miss matters

that project is supported by name, so it's that time of the year were a lot of folk start to think about their fitness schools getting their bodies moving myself included. I actually recently started playing a lot more attention to how I was feeling my body and also really came to realize that I was carrying a lot of information in my body and potential disease risk in the form of way. So I want, an intelligent and sustainable and supportive way to increase my health, lose the widen inflammation and just feel bad

and nor is it just a great solution for this one that I have turned to numerous times over the years to help me accomplish wellness and when it makes sense, wait management goals as well, so new uses science and personalization. So you can not just intelligently manage wait for the long term, but also really learn from their psychology based approach that helps you build better habits and behaviors at are easier to maintain and the best part you decide how new fits into life, not the other way around, based on a sample of four thousand two

it's. Seventy two, numerous ninety eight percent say noom helps change their habits and behaviors for good, and that is because noom actually helps you understand the science behind your choices and why you have certain cravings. So if you feel like you've been lacking the knowledge to make the changes, you want to see, try out noom, so you can start making informed choices and start to really change the way that you think about weight, loss and weight management and wellbeing. Take the first step and sign up for your trial today at noon: dot, com, that's n, o o m dot com to sign up for your trial today or just click. The link in the show notes. So you end up at berkeley and when you get there is, is it what you thought it would be? No hassle, I mean what did you think and then how is it not

yes, and no because I did do the summer program until I had a an understanding of it, because what the summer program was was essentially like a pre cursor to the college. You kind of get an understanding of what berkeley looks like and sounds like and how they operate So I had a baseline understanding. I like to say that, like at eighteen, I don't think I could have gone anywhere else, because I was so desperate for local environment in a way that I hadn't thought that I had at my school, but then it ended up being the case said in our in my first year and a half in college, I had action been singing more on a daily basis in high school justify the way that things are structured at berkeley. So I was kind of like wait. A second what's happening here. You know, but it was

It's an interesting place because, made me up Stand or have a better understanding that, like while I have we wanted to be a musician. My entire life. There are over things about the world that I'm interested in an interested in learning and the over saturation of muse. A kind of did this service for the other things that I was interested in learning about, and I m kind of this stigma around if you graduate, which I did first of all only I think the graduation rate as like fifty three percent allow and its beak. as you either very quickly realized that you don't wanna, be him musician in this way, because it's it's music all the time. it's like you're learning theory and, like all of these other things, that it becomes a lot for some people sentences,

shall I guess, if you realize that there's no, you can't lakes, the police are exactly exactly ever so it's either. You realize you don't want to do that and he drop out or you get picked up for a gig and you go on the road and so there's kind of a stigma around graduating, because if you graduate that means that you didn't get picked up for a gig, oh wow, and you considered an alarm after completing one semester. Because of this, so I think John Mayer only completed like one or two, the master or something like that, but it's like if you get picked up like it, doesn't matter if he only where there for one month, because, like you used, they still to say that your name on it, you know so there, the rating system that you get radiate on, like your, I forget what all the categories are, it, depending on your rating. It allows you to enter certain classes, are certain ensemble wolves and you can

in every year to china your rating, I never did I like stuck with my rating in those like whatever, and it's kind of this thing words like if you really want to be in like this top thing. Are you always have to to push yourself to get to that point which ends also this, this lingering vibe. Among some people, which I think it's probably waning. Now our cause like it started as a jazz school, and now it's not just jasper, but there There are some hard core jazz people that are like jazz is the only music, and if you are not good at jazz, then you suck at music period. You know, so it's like there's kind of background. That's like trying to make it known that, like it's the only way to do it and those some teachers that do that. But I would say it's mostly students that are better.

Kind of like establishing that by when the grassroots thing happening, not even ground, routes as much as it is just like. These are all serious jazz heads that came into school like I have perfect pitch and, like I already know all of this theory and all this stuff, and it's like okay, congratulations! So yeah! It's a it's a different kind of perfectionism so for you walking into that culture coming from the family from the moment, people know who you are and must have been even like me and then I thought it was or lay out a sense of pressure almost like expectations from your peered. In that what you have now that we're not capable of yeah my first semester. I was in the lobby of my door and somebody walked up to me and put out their hand and was just like, I believe, greatness flows and then walked away May I was like what origins demanded times

If people would ask me how my dad was before they would ask me how I was type of thing. It's like I'm standing here right right and I I was in this class with, unfortunately, the professor recently died, but it was a. It was a poetry class and it was one of the more honest classes. I would able to ban were like that. That was the encouragement behind. It was like we're trying to make us more open space and one time when I posed the question and of how many of you knew. Why was before I gave him like walked into the classroom, are like we ve, never even spoken before, and over half the class raise their hands I wasn't not allowed to like be the anonymous college. Kids, they trying to figure out and meet all that's it soon That's got to be so hard also because I mean

at the way we figure things out is by like trying out into things which means part of that process? Is we're not good at a whole bunch of things like and and and like if you're relatively anonymous. You can do that kind of publicly as everybody else is doing, but if you, if you're in Oh I've already unknown entity under the weight of expectation it just like out. I would imagine the way you experience that was a result of having this, yet I mean a lot of people just expected that I already knew like counter. point, and I already knew theory- and I already knew all of these things, but it's like I was starting at the first classes with everybody else you know, and so it was just there wasn't as much room for error it felt like, but at the same time it's like you just want to hide and have plenty of room just as a human, not even those musician, you know

so you're not mean that Bolivia, who you are just as the product of I'm still figuring out, who was now that I've ever met very few people like that dialogue and no matter what aids there while you're there. I mean what are you starting, a new one, yours mention that there were thing that you realise that you actually take care about that, we cannot pushed out of the way he I'm curious. What those things are well does. An understanding of other things that happen in life. You know it's like. I was fortunate to be raised with of very great education, which is a source of privilege that, unfortunately, most people aren't afforded in this country and I would try to in asia, inundated with music all the time, and I will try and have conversations with people about other things and they could be like the most proficient musicians and they didn't know how to talk about anything else:

or just feeling like I wasn't being pushed academically away. Where I mean there was one class, but I think had to do with the history of the american me Zack, recording industry or something like that- and I bet my senior year and at the end, the last class. I went up to my teacher mouselike. Thank you for giving me what felt like a real college, as you know, or I, there was one glass that It's mezzo american art and architecture, where had a mezzo american architect teaching. The class now was like this is really cool no or just like learning about different parts of history and I actually realize until later that those like all actually liked being pushed to in these other ways, and I think that that would have also helped my music classes, because I would have gotten up

in you. I went into college listening to music all the time and by the time I left college, it was like I needed a breather because one music became hallmark every day all the time it was like. Oh my god like at all less than a music. I was really curious about actually right, because so many times you see this in people with professions right wing there. do you love to doing you doing on the side. As often as you can, then something happens and you get an opportunity to make it your full padded thing. Then. What's it becomes your full time thing and like that's all you do all day every day you almost start to resent the fact that, like that is now your thing grant exactly sir did did he get to appoint ever where you you, questioned whether this was. This was the thing that you truly devote yourself to not really, but I dont know if that was just because I was like

I decided I was going to this mouse five. I don't really have it's like. I don't know what else I'm supposed to deal with my life. So not as much that if anything was questioned by choice of of institution there So, when you liar in berkeley, what's happening to you, he u etc just developing, as a human being and ass a musician. I mean where were worth taking you well, I will say, Think the best part of berkeley is the network that you develop and not just from like professional standpoint. But it's like. I made some really great friends and we got to grow up as musicians together so the majority of my music. What I feel like was my music education during my time at berkeley came from the fact that I might a sophomore year? I guess I know my second.

So. My freshman year started and with a couple of my friends who we are eddie friends and all of us just happened to play different instruments, we ended up Starting this band and we played together a lot and so for my sophomore and drew nearer and then like first half of my son new year of college, we were we plato. Shows and we like had a booking jan and we are coming to new york and we were playing a lot of random, mountain ski large, gigs women nobody there, but they paid decent money. But it was it. We were shouting in ours. it's like a lot a lot of practice and up until that point, I had been pretty nervous like I did my stay. I had a decent asked aid fright and it help

get rid of a lot of that help me get rid of most of it. I still have a little bit of it in certain scenarios, but it really helped me understand like how to command a stage and how to be present with people on stage, and it was a bat was like my biggest learning opportunity and then starting in the second half my junior year through senior year and then for a couple years, post college. I ended up joining my dad's banned as a background vocalist, and so then I was like touring the world and a cool thing about berkeley, as you can use that, as a credit saw who wrote tat off as a credit, I just had the like make a presentation of tibet at the end of a semester whatever, so that was also a huge learning experience of just like what it means be a legit touring musician and so those where the biggest elements for me of being able to ground the foundation,

the musician that I am now and just having a better understanding of you know I have no problem talking to a sound guy or something or like, and I know what I'm and I know what I'm talking about. You know like I'm, not just like somebody off the street who, like hasn't, had these experiences, and I think a lot people, don't I mean maybe now they do, but at deftly in the beginning of my soul, a career people didn't think that I really knew what I was talking about are about it. I think that discredited the amount of ex Instead, I've had in the field rose like now: like you're gonna, listen to me, because I had actually know what I'm talking about so then, don't discredit me regret the idea of performing and practicing over and over on any stage you can get. Even if there's five people there almost like as a form of exposure therapy totally, I think, is really fascinating. Yeah, it's a part of it is yes, you're you're you're getting the craft. You know it's like everytime, you do it you're learning!

but I know so many people who are who perform in some way shape or form for a living and have for years and still feel that when they step once. Adg. You know and it's gotten a lot better after they've done it hundreds or thousands of times, but it's still there yeah on some level. My dad says it's not about having the butterflies in your stomach but getting them to fly information. So that's why I try and focus on the I like that almost like. If you don't feel them is or is something wrong where you just know: lar you're, so uninvested rang yeah, maybe like it's a signal that you care so when you're touring you're searching back whether that, for the first time that you had that you have done that with him in a professional setting s yeah how how is arrogant,

four year it was great had a really fun time it came about because he came out with us. Album of spirits was called spirit. You all and at the time I was studying abroad in spain for my seconds, so my junior year and the first gig that he had with The band was in london and esperanza spalding space and sings backgrounds on the album, whose incredible all right and also berkeley, alarm and she was that was gonna, be the only show that she could do and she dropped. She had to drop out for some reason and my mom bing b incredibly, smart woman that she is when my dad was trifles. What to do. She was like

your daughter is in europe right now, like just have her come to london and like sing with you guys- and he was like- oh yes, actually good idea, so they, I think like a week or two before it happened. Bed just sent me the music, and it was the first time that my dad was playing what this band and it ended up being this. What a great dynamic it was like this group of people that we all love each other and we have a lot of fun and my dad keeps saying like this: it's like the best. And he's ever had and all the staff- and it was also breaks it was like I got to travel, my dad and like spend a lot of time with him, and it was the first time that I had really gotten to see him in that dynamic, because I never went on with him like as a kid or something you, there was only the. where I like, if he was gonna, be in city for a particular number of days and like we could,

I'll go, and that would only be if wasn't school and back on of thing. So I was never like on the road with him and even then it was like as as about it, let what watching or enjoy him rather than grain legs collaborating with it right like I wasn't going to soundtrack annoying all these other things, and so that was really fun and exciting, and it also gave me a deeper understanding of who he was as a person does Be this thing where you know he would be on the road for three four weeks. he he'd come home and be kind of isolated and not want to go out and like now to do things and you now as His daughter I like want to spend more time with him and all this stuff, and after our first like serious, or that I did with him. I was twenty two at the time and I got off the road and got home, and I was like oh I get it that you're, just tired and like don't wanna, do anything cause you're traveling like every day and for an exit

of period of time and like that doubt that takes a toll on your body, and so the fact that I was twenty you and feeling those ways. I was like oh wow. This guy's been doing this for forty years. Of course, he doesn't want to go out to dinner so I'll be home and just like chill there, like the empathy side kicks in other gap, will hardly love absolutely When did life start getting so complicated, buying a home, complicated home finances, certainly not a walk in the park. Raising kids, she hath it's a lot, then there's ensure and what, if my policy doesn't cover this or what? If I have to make a claim in the middle of the night? Good news, state farm. Is there for your what ifs you can reach them? Twenty four seven file a claim on the state farm mobile app or simply call your agent to ask anything. So even if life gets, Insurance doesn't have to be like a good neighbour,

state farmers, there collar gotta state farmed outcome for a quote today when it comes to getting fit. We all start off with the best in time and but actually following through with it. We know it's tough. So whether need, inspiration, flexibility or just better value it's time to try power with classes that are so any teeming, inspiring and exhilarating. You'll be eager to get back to stretch them walk strength, training, meditations and more from five to twenty two. Seventy five minutes wondering. Is this really worth my money? Well, did we mention that we have a free app, it's fitness for everyone, no matter who you are or what it's peloton download the free peloton app today, peloton app available through free to european excursion, paid memberships start at twelve. Ninety nine a month, hey it's jonathan from good life project. If you are in your thirties or forties with friends too busy to join you on a vacation, you have to check out flashback the only group trapped.

brand for solar travellers, your age, imagine dining with sumo in Japan or basking on a private god in croatia, all with people like you, visit flash pack, dot com, slash podcast, to save to under fifty dollars on your booking, an offer, only available until july, fifteenth. So after experience than your coming out of berkeley and then it yet then the question becomes okay. Now why, like rain until now stepping back into the real world outside of this bubble. It knew the good debate, everything that it was the amazing experiences. But when you step on the road like ok, what is my Would you be sure what is my voice like what a? How do I, how to actually make that step? How does that start to unfold for you? Well, I had about a year after college have continued. The north, my dad so that first year I was like still on the road, I was happy to have graduated and laughed, and I moved in

five days after graduation? I was like get me out of Boston like I just can't anymore, and so I felt good about that. But then it they turned to this thing where I don't think there was like a two year period relic. I haven't written a song and I was just very much I was sad about it, but same time out, I felt burnt out and I felt very musically burnt out and the band had broken up and that I had about having college cosmic rome, and it was just this kind of felt back to that era- like starting college of being like who am I in alike. I still don't know because when I in the bam in college like it felt really right, and I think we just couldn't- we just can work it out in, unlike too many different personalities not working together in the right way. We toyed with the idea

getting back together after college and never once and then work, but it was really in it. The solo career like blossomed out of necessity for only my soul, but like to feel like I needed to prove myself to myself, but it was It's like, like I said it was like I decided to do this when I was five and like what else was I going to do the when you Make that decision then to deserve step into your soul occur. How do you do coming from the background that you come from, Do you decide what that's gonna look like for you, I'm sorry site here, not ever above ground thoroughly, but it takes you had been in a band you had. He had been with your dad, I'm getting had tons of other like when you when you stepped out into the world.

because you done some really in the last couple of years, powerful stuff, Really on your own as a seller sidney were I'm curious about the decision to step out more as a solo artist then called later I know you're collaborating more these days, but for the first couple of years it felt like it was really like your must place to make a flag in the sand and said I need to kind of be me first and I think it stemmed from in I had done the band thing, and I actually like did this like electronic hip hop, do a thing for a sec and then I have this moment of like when I actually decided that I wanted to do some music, that it felt so In my body, like I had this physical reaction of, like, I think our goosebumps, unlike some other things, and I was like ok, I just gotta do it, you know, but I knew I just wanted to be by myself. I can add, I think it was.

Think it was something we're like. I really had to prove to myself that I could do it and not have anybody else to lean on our Behind this, probably a better way of putting it more accurate way of putting it, and am I really needed a push myself to be in a position where it was like if something goes wrong. It's on you like it's like it's not on these other people. If if you mess up in a song, you can't blame the basis for like changing the key here like going to the wrong section of the song or whatever. It's like. I really needed that pressure, because I don't think anybody else had really put that pressure on me before. Berkeley certainly didn't put that pressure on me and my parents was wonderful, as they are never really put that pressure on me, and so I had to. I had to do it

self, and I think that that was the only way that I was gonna get around to to doing it, the irene. So that brings up a really and what I'm sure was a really hard moment for you, also where you step out like everyone. goes right as on me, and everything that go south is on here and you end up on a stage in two thousand. Sixteen, at a political I'll, be seeing the national anthem and, like like we said when you're trying to figure things out constantly try new things in new settings and and the benefit of, I think, a lot of you. Who are in the world, are public performing. Is that when they don't go right. It's and just like okay, so I messed that up. What did I learn? How am I going to do things different moving on for you, I mean this unfolded in one moment in a very public way that I would imagine from like it

living. Your life would have been really hard in that moment it sucks Tom. It threw off me through what up see. That's the other thing is like at that moment when that happened. I had recently start decide to become so a musician I, but I hadn't done any shows. I had recorded some stuff. That was like scratch. It wasn't even the the whole thing it was just like here are some ideas, so I wasn't fully in the like. Yes, I am a solo performer tax. I read you hadn't like publicly stepped out right exactly, and so I got this opportunity to sing the national anthem for Hillary Clinton when she won the democratic nomination and that just came about through a friend of my brothers member, called me and he was like hey my friends, going to call you about this thing. I was like okay bet whatever, and she called me and the the event was two days later and at the time I was nannying for work cause I the

Stuff with my dad had had phased out more or less and for those Today's I like strenuously were rehearse the national anthem and There was just a series of events that enfolded that I didn't have any control over. I. Was unable to go to soundtrack, because I have work and when I got to the brooklyn navy hardware was, people have even waiting for about three hours and I want to say it was like five thousand people there or something like that and then sorry didn't show up for another three hours, because there are still trying to determine the like. She had in fact one the nomination, and I think there were also some security, use or whatever and so that all happened. The room is like really ripe with anticipation for this historic moment and when they call upon stage they didn't introduce me to the audience

when I started singing the national anthem, the audience started, seeing the national anthem with me, so it wasn't the moment of like wasn't the moment that add rehearsed for it all. I had scenario had not entered my brain in any way, shape or form. I had not repent prepared myself or what happens if the start singing this with. You the audience hurting with me and I got thrown off, and so I just invited the audience to continue to sing with me. You know like what am I supposed to do that tell the audience to stop singing the national anthem that just felt unpatriotic and I definitely didn't have the balls to do, and it was on national television. And you can't hear a single other persons singing hear me with my microphone singing. version of the national anthem that I had not rehearsed singing with a crowd of people that you cannot hear in the play, rank and I'll, and unfortunately the thing that sucks

and it was like, it was a really joyous moment and like we were all like really happy, and I like invited them to continue singing with me, because I wasn't going to tell them to stop, but because of that, it's like, if you were to isolate a single person in a room of people, singing happy birthday, like they probably don't sound gray in our like, unless they're just like doing their own version by putting mistaken the ground of like no, you I'm gonna sing a song. This way, which I probably We have done in some way, but I didn't know how to and so then what got off stage. My phone had blown up with twitter dislike telling me that I had ruined my paternity and I couldn't saying, unlike snoop dog made fun of me, and I was on the shade room and I got hit with this onslaught of hate, That was really it was really troubling, and it just so happened that, like the a few days, for this happened I had been in my therapist office and I had cried in front of my therapist for the first

I'm saying like, I don't think I can see like I don't know what I'm doing with my life, like I'm too so laws and confused and then in a fast for four days and here's what like the entire world, telling me like. Oh yeah, maybe you're right right, exactly right, ass. It was. it was really it really sucked, but it was actually the thing that pushed me be like you know what I did not go through All of this time. With this dream just as have you guys tell me that I am wrong, and so I bought my first solo show after that. like I know that I can do this. I've been performed and performed all around the world and you guys caught me my bad day on live television. I'm sorry that you don't know about all these other factors that went into it. You know- and so it was one of those things where it was like a my about to let this be the moment where it like. I have to say,

my whole trajectory of my life from the worse, and I was about to let that happen. I'm too stubborn yeah. I can imagine what that must have been I do not recommend getting troll them. What they lose me away, though, is that right, soon after you basically said now like yes, this is awful by and four days later, like unbeknownst, anybody else. You were letting her therapists now that you're really questioning whether this is your bath and they now you had this massive public boys piling on say. Well, maybe it's not rank and your response That was not the sort of vanish and say he eloquent, maybe they're all right and maybe that voice in me as right. But now look there something deep down and saturday. They said no, no. This is why I am here like this Is the thing that I wanna do end and rather than high, like I'm, going to step out? Probably soon as I can write, I didn't really see another choice. There was a red this book, the around that time after that had,

then called daring greatly by right and there is a line in it I don't exactly remember the wording, but it was like you get to decide how the story ends, and so I wasn't about to let those people telling me how my story ended. You know it was like okay at this. This is what I wanted and it was totally unintentional. I haven't even thought about the fact that, like me, ending up doing archipelago, music was even more it can eff you because it was like okay. You think I can't sing, but here's me just using my voice right, which is what you did so your next move as you step out and you're like ok, I'm not going to rely on anything but my voice. Well, that wasn't the the initial step, okay, for the Hillary Clinton thing happened. I'd written like an album that I cut down to the five songs and for my first show I handle had this loophole and I haven't really been using it much. I had a synthesizer and so the have. The show was me with the loop

at all and the synthesizer and like a can't, remember if it was one or two acapella songs and then have. I actually brought my old band up and we did the songs that I had written on this album, but I knew what was? I guess, maybe seeing my dad and my brother to that. I only wanted to be on stage by myself, but I dont feel as confident as I would like to playing the piano and singing songs at the same time. For that to be my thing and that's how I had written these, on the album and sell out of necessity. I was like ok I'll just do these arms with the loop pedal and my synthesizer and I wrote a couple of politicians with the loop paddle and as I was doing more and more gigs in new york, I would get these order gigs that were like twenty minutes, and it was a thing

I was like okay. Well, I don't want to bring my synthesizer just for one song. You know so I was like okay I'll just I'll bring my loop and I always write the loophole that that's. The only thing I had was like I'll just do the acapella songs so that I'd have to bring this other piece of equipment with me for a total of three songs. You know it's like. I have three acapella songs, the post songs, and so I, after doing that, more and more like that became a much more niece thing that people were into, and I also was, I felt like my octopus on drugs. Stronger than the ones that I had written with the synthesizer, and so it just became a thing like it was in it. Like there was no part of mean doing this, the thing that had the intention of being an archipelago list. Gray. It was almost like a convenience thing. Yeah, it wasn't say it was totally a convenience thing. That's so fun, and then I put out the first volume of

new foundations, simply because I was like ok, I have this other project that I wrote and I want to get some buzz beforehand, and I, like these occupied songs, that I wrote. You also then come out and in two then seventeen with some. How can you say you will which is interesting right because that's sort of like looping acapella and then at the end you decide to add in something national anthems in it. Right was that in. Was that in response to what happened or was it I mean obviously, was also in the context of the song, but I'm curious. That was almost like a shout back to what happened in some way or or no not really like people assume that it is. I wrote the song shine about what happened with the national anthem, so that was kind of my like that's what this song is about read, but it was really thing where it just felt right. In that moment, when I wrote, can you see, I wrote that song like in a day

very shortly like it was something that just kind of flowed out pretty easily and when I put the national anthem in it. It was kind of just like it works for the context of the song, and I didn't really think too much about it. especially because it's like, I changed the words and it's not exactly the melody, but you know it's a little bit different because I remember when that came out. I remember seeing some of the comments around it and- and I remember seeing some people asking in the comments something like I'm not going to get it exactly right, but like was this the way that you meant to sing it and twenty. Sixteen that, like you, couldn't hangar it, for whatever reason it didn't work experience. This is incredible. It was like really is very different and powerful, make it so over the last couple of years I mean you, you.

I have done to this volume to a founding foundations also, but it also feels like you're you're now, stepping it back into sort of like a more collaborative space, and part of that is with one of your brothers. Tell me more about how that's unfolding like us, have like. I had initially written another project which was in this particular project, but it's what this project has evolved into and so again was never my intention to do the archipelago. and so by just took off more than I was anticipating, and so now it's kind of like a re in induction of what I've wanted to present people with which actually funny enough the intro to to the next dp. It's called the you and I and it's an acapella intro, that's called read like r e colon intro yeah, that's awesome

I was something that and the reason why it took all wild to to get done is like I wanted my brother. Produce the whole thing and he was working on his album until I had to wait for him to get finished, and so I was like okay, I guess I'll just but out another volume of acapella palestine females, those like just kind of that thing, but it's always been the case that I've wanted to have a more collaborative produced sound and helpful people are still into it. You know and don't think that I'm just supposed to be doing acapella stuff cause is that a legit it's one of yours right into cars. Yours, you hear so often stay in your lane. I dunno, if you personally hear that, but I know across so many especially creative domains. People

okay, so you're kind of getting known for this thing and you're really good at it and you're getting traction with it. So just keep doing more of that right and my sense of that does happen. A lot too is it. Do you feel? Did you feel any of that pressure? Yeah? I still do yeah and I think it's more so from a thing of like You know I do what I do and I do it well and Not anybody else is doing it in the same way that I am at least that I know of I'm sure I mean I'm not like a completely unique person, because none of us, But I have carved out a little like place for myself in this way and honestly, the thing I get most concerned about is like ok, I'm doing this aka thing, not many people else are doing it in this way. If I start production does not just make me like one of these

people as make me less you neither does it make my shall have less magic rope. Those are the things more concerned about There are so many ways that I want to express myself musically outside of our power, and I'm it just so happens that, like here harmony in my head better than I can play on the piano so the easier for me to sing it so like it works out that way to those that, even when I write music, I'm sure, but there still gonna be a cupola elements to it, and the thing that I rely heaviest on even in the past. Even before I was doing the awkwardness of like I love harmonies, like I love, well harmonies more than anything period, and so that's always going to be a thing in my music regardless. if those production or not

and so there are I'm hoping that people still here that that, through line to be able to understand that, I'm still me, you know, I think that there might be some like jazz heads that aren't as interpret its like a few matters into my stuff like just because I added some some extra stuff behind that. you know: okay, I'm sorry but like I have to be true to myself at the end of the day. Yeah, do you have any concern now that you're sort of like stepping back into multi instrument and different different approach to production? you mentioned earlier one of the powerful things I e the powerful things and scary things of kind it being your voice in only a voice, even if it slipped in layered is that there is nowhere to hide when you start to bring a lot. more back into it, it concern you at all that there may be more places too high, at a moment when you're still

you ve got so much work ahead of you and still so much experimentation to deal in so much relate growth and development. Yet totally that something that I have been able to get pretty good out with the other thing is like I am very good at harmonizing with myself, and I can stay on pitch with myself, and I am not it's not that I am concerned about that with adding other elements that does bring in a lot more things. For me, here to be paying attention to that. Like am I going be able to say, study in the way that I've become comfortable with you know Are all of these other elements? Is there a chance at, though, like throw me off in my pitch or just in my focus, you know it's like I'm My new set up is like, with ear that I haven't gotten the chance to you know really play with.

in a public setting in our verses, like I could do a collapse in my sleep At this point you know it's like I can I. I know that my show, like the back of my hand, like I there's not much that that goes into it, that that throws me off, but now I have to be even more present in a way that I'm worried about. If that level of presence is gonna, throw me up in the middle and also what you said. Few, if the if you're emma, has always been that, like you hear what you want to express in your head, sometimes on a pure level than your actually able to express it either with your voice. Her with an instrument when you start to add multiple instruments too, or multiple sounds multiple melodies. To that end, and you're, not necessarily the one playing them right, but you know what why Your brain is saying it should sound like death like us,

another level of that. Only attentively. Frustration right here is absolutely not that. How do you actually explain it? Can't you just listen to us in my handwriting and I like tat so interesting as your sorted out play right now, you I know you ve been torturing a whole bunch. What's real, exciting, certainly about the moment that your end right now with your work, I feel like right now. There is so much energy happening on a global level of frustration and anxiety, and not knowing what to do like that. That's not An american only issue that we're having you know and like after forty five that elected one of the silver light things that I instantly knew was going to be was the fact that, like it was going to bring about a lot of really amazing art, just like it did in the late sixties, early seventies, and I think that

lot of people really felt and still do feel a necessary push to express themselves in an artistic way, and I am very excited to be a musician and that moment, and hopefully meme being a solemn musician. Way that I have been and under the circumstances that I've had. You know I have a lot of people who they come up to me let me know how inspired they ve been just by my story, because we live in this society right now, where me getting old is not an isolated incident, even happened on a national scale that a lot of people experience troll,

it happening like on the internet in a way that, like particularly for young, teenagers and stuff, that, like you, did, we don't even know how to connect and it's it's hard in its toughen I allowed myself to be really vulnerable on stage, which I don't really know how not to be, but that is a thing that has allowed people to see that, like you can go through some. Publicly and actually bounced back and not let people bring you down in a way, and so I feel like my even just my music, but like me as a person like I've, been able to exemplify that and away them, I'm really happy about, and it's it's not like it's something that I'm going after that? I sought out to be some like. Let me be or like vulnerable fran, persona brand or whatever you know, that's not what I'm trying to do at all, like I'm, really just being myself and like, if being myself means that that inspires,

people to be themselves like I'm totally down. For that light, I feel like we need a lot more encouragement and there's so much like heavy energy, that's kind of telling a lot of people. Just sit down and shut up, and I would love to be a part of him. Whatever movement it is, that tells people the exact opposite like stand up and fight the love that packs and fills a good place for us to start to come full circle also. So, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life in the context of this good life project container, what comes up, I think, to live a good life means to be true to yourself and to be true to true and good to the people around you. You know, I think there is thing so simple. You're in

golden rule of like tree, your neighbor, how you would want to be treated, we don't do enough there right now. I think that if we were actually that's what a good life is to me- and I was like just being one with your community and having a deeper understanding of them and yourselves and the planet and in freedom in real freedom which most people don't get to experience. whether it's from a financial level or a physical, or a mental level. I think we're all struggling with some form of you know, enslavement in one way or another, whether its the other man or via our brains, and I think, living a good life means being free. Free of that means. Freedom loving! Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you so much for listening and thanks also to our fantastic sponsored who helped make this show possible. You can check them out in the links we have included, intraday show notes and while you're at it, if you ve ever asked yourself, watch it with my life. We have created a really cool online assessment that will help you discover the source code for the work that you are here to do. You can find it add, spark a type dot com. That's s, p, a r K, e t why p dot com or just click delete. In the shadows and of course, if you haven't already done so be sure to click on the subscribe button. In your listening app, so you never miss an episode and then share share the love. If there's something that you've heard in this episode, that you would love to turn into a conversation share it with people and have that conversation

because when ideas become conversations that lead to action, that's when real change takes hold, see you next time, the.