The show growing up in queens new york, which is not that far from where we are right now in manhattan. At the age of about thirteen, my yesterday, David krumholtz literally stumbled into the world of acting on a lark when he followed friends of his to an open, audition having never acted before, and landed the raw soon after found himself on a broadway stage. Alongside judge Hirsch tony salute an incredible cast that launched a decades long now career and acting and eventually also writing in tv in film, with credits include a five year run as a lead on the tv show numbers so many different appeal. Answers on shows like the good wife lawn order. More recently, hbo showed the deuce movies, like Adams. family values, the santa claus, series of movies slums in beverly, hills and now in his newest role. He plays a police officer.

any really deeply provocative movie called crown back, which we circle around and talk to. So in today's conversation we dive into this increase, journey, but also zoom the lens quickly out and explore more broadly his love of music and culture and family. His feelings about the act life and the role of work and his work in his bigger mix of what makes him come alive, the importance of humility and kindness, and then we dive into this real greedy and provocative story behind his new film crown vic and the tough questions that it asks viewers to consider while leaving no pad answers along the way the super excited to share conversation with you, I'm jonathan fields, and this is good life project. library,

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An expert analysis as soon as you sign up if you're interested in subjects like this go to economist dot com, slash project for full access to the topics that matter too new and original analysis as events unfold. That's economist, dot, com, slash project or just click. The link in the show notes to start your one month, free trial with the economist today, because the world won't wait How does a I even work where it is creativity come from? What's this, where, to living longer, ted radio, our explores the biggest questions with some of the world's greatest thinkers they will, prize challenge and even change. You wasn't npr ted radio, our whatever you get your PA guests, So the ten percent happier podcast has one guiding philosophy. Happiness is still that you can learn. So why not embrace it? It's hosted by dan harris journalists who

a panic attack on national television and then set out on this journey of transformation and he's now on a quest to help. Others also achieve peace and happiness, and every week Dan talked to top scientists meditation teachers. Even the odd celebrity in wide ranging conversations that explore topics like productivity, anxiety and psychedelics and relationships. The interviews cover everyone from brene brown to Sarah burrell s, to SAM Harris and more. I love learning from his questions and experiences. An incredible guests. Think of listening to ten percent happier as a workout for your mind, find ten percent happier wherever you listen to podcasts sounds like you get into music at a pretty young age, also kind of fascinated by the musical side of you as well. You know I I I love music and always have, and I'm you know I I love all kinds of music, except for, like email

like you know, early two, thousands email, but the regulation is like the one that makes me want to listening to it, but but I can see why people love it. You know, but I only recently got. I asked to be grateful. Cover band jersey, which really is a highly acute representation of my mid life crisis. But you know it's been really fun and yeah play bongos in congo. and I sing it- she's been crazy fun. I love the grateful dead. Such were in such an intense pocket in the tri state area that people realize like this is really the sort of unofficial

home of grateful dead, cover bands of dead. I mean woodstock being nearby and but there's never lack of mental, almost every single night. You can find a grateful that cover ban nearby, laying somewhere and not. of them are great, and you know some of them are just sort of failure. It out as they go by a couple of them, are incredible. I mean really incredible, you know they recreate the sound or they do something different. There's a band. I was plain and briefly called add meat, and they do amazing sort of interpretations, funky interpretations of dead songs and they just throw on up they just throw a party, and it's it's a lot of fun for people and you'd be surprised how many people show up. I mean night after night. You know tuesday nights you know yeah I mean I think it's also a test meant just to the continuing loyalty in massive size of solely the dead had community you're out years after jerry's past now. Only granted yes like this.

Elite touring in a different incarnation these days? While it's there's something addictive about the music? I you know. I I absolutely, and you know, of course,. Substances that people employ when they listen to music are also addictive butter. Yet something. So you about it and so uniform about their sound lead. I think Either you loved her, you are you, you don't know. One hate said they just sort of either obsessed, with it. Are you or your? Are into and it's an obsession yeah now completely, I mean it's also. I think it's just combination the jam, vibe and, and the lyrics and laugh I mean I wonder who ride with suitable higher selling. There's your password September a year it sounds like that couple of months ago, and what did when incredible? Testament, also that, like degas, the dead, get inducted into the hall of fame and one guy, who is, I don't think he ever actually performed on stage with him? Was it not fair to the band year? I don't think

we're happened before at least not that I know of while he wrote so many of the songs. He you know to me that he says that he and jerry are the greatest lyricists of all time and you you could argue that bob Dylan, is one, but Bob Dylan covered so much ground that it was almost over kill, whereas grateful dead lyrics are like bob dylan lyrics but nuanced, and a little more ethereal, and they feel like they ve been channel through I mean ripple, is one of the greatest poems that's ever under, and and certainly when put him music, just extremely profound, so yeah now agree, I think on didn't. I think a hundred did some stuff with dealing at one point: yeah, probably they they do it in the dead, also cross. But anyway,

would you go down? The music by voting was come back over here, so you you're hanging out your grown up in a family in queens with your mom. Are you I know all the stuff a scary can ass? You actually is a little bit weird sort of sit across from people knowing that they their solid windows of your life, that are there, are fairly public and have people like oddly If the stuff about you, I stopped caring about it. I at one point it was very odd now and it's not why I'm in the game, but it's not. Why You know there was a period where I thought, oh well. If I can become well known and famous, then that's what I will do you know with all my meal passion I will become faint and that was really a you know stupid I'd much rather be known as reliable

and but I it's gotten weird, I mean the last six months, conor ratcheted up a bit. You know, I think it's sort of people are starting to put together all that guy, who is That was also that guy and that's a great were reward. I always wanted to be through in a league of classic character, actors that have amazing range, and so that happen in that I am being recognised for that is kind of cherry on the cake. You know I I don't. Spire too much more than that as far as people knowing stuff, they know they dont know, you know I mean it. I did- and I hope the stuff they don't know close to me and I, I try to normalize the situation by disarming people on extremely humble why I've worked with alarm actors who aren't and I've I've all

is from day one sort of bristled at that you know in in seeing it and being part of it, you know or being a victim of the you know. I just never wanted to become that kind of artist. I dont really what I do so fascinating, I'd rather more of sort of an just more of a cosmic existentialist there. Thus, my love for the grateful dead and am I really the it's my job? You know it's a job. You know, as I heard harrison ford say, that once someone was like what is it like being harrison ford granted, he you know all these people are way more famous than I'll, probably ever be, and he just it's it's the job, it's parts, it's the job. A recently one of my dear friends who I knew before he became famous whose essentially iconic now- and I won't- namely one drop- that name

He is an iconic guy and extremely famous, on a level that I don't think I could handle him recently came to the realisation that half his job was handling his fame instead of running from it or hiding or portraying himself as something that he wasn't, and he you know the all the best all the kindness famous people that I've ever worked with her met have really good size, their egos you now without severally balancing it

an inferiority complex day. They find a nice balance, which is you know, I'm sort of it takes some serious mindfulness. You know the famous a drug and the first rush of famous fear. You now I remember my friend who I'm talking about. We went he would he had just sort of exploded and it was a maybe again to over night fame and we went to a concert together and he got mobbed and he has a black belt in karate, tough guy amongst us, and I saw a genuine fear and his eyes, like fear for his life and fear for people wanting things from him and then all of a sudden being the centre of attention. So it's easy when you're when it starts with fear to sort of hide or or convince yourself that You are somehow more,

special were then more special than than any money, and and and it's a real wicked game to sort of play with yourself and you got a sort of you're, the only one who actually who can extract yourself from it. At some point, I am not nearly as well known as as as he is and and like I said, I'm not sure I could handle it. I think I'd become an ego. Monster it is such an interesting question. I am not a lawyer solid documentary twenty feet from stardom fascinated got your backup singers sought to his grave yeah. I was so interesting how but it felt like there was almost this thing like you know, if you're in the

music, industry and like your job, lady in the ultimate aspiration, is to be as big as forward facing. Add further stages. You can actually yeah right, but that's not necessarily the everybody's definition of court success in whatever domain, especially in the performing arts. Well, there's a leap between being exposed and being exploited and most famous people are a lot of famous people. Don't know that their exploding themselves. You know that they ve that they ve crossed. That line that to me as a nightmare life I wouldn't ever wanna be so desk. For fame and attention that I would that I I sort of make a big deal out of everything I do. In fact, I don't really even like talking about like even right now, like you know, to be honest with you, like, I don't mind it. I could talk about my

alfred days. I just don't like it. You know like a matter we now, I really focus try to focus on other people more fascinate, I mean that's kind of how I view my job too. Is I want to know people, I don't want I'm a blank slate, a I just want to get vibes, offer people and understand who they are and how they live in. It just helps me, you know when I'm trying to fashion a very real moment. When I'm doing my work, Just helps me understand the many, variables I can sort of delve into in others there. So many different types of people and and yet there's something at the core of everyone, that's wildly similar so to me that that's a paradox that I'm I'm endlessly fascinated with. I mean

I love writing. Subway trains, subway cars, you know you just people I have to say a word you get so much off their expressions. Just watching people behave is fascinating. To me always has been in oh yeah, I didn't sell ways. Is I get a whole lab study in the same way and this without studios morning, her hang it out like typically and yet rush hour, people held indoors any other place, any other city, elated conductor, guys he please step back from the doorway this survey like eagerly a killer the door, it's nothing!

like anywhere else. People would have been offended would be like what in new york's. I know new york's, very special. That way, I will you know it's another reason I came back cause I kind of missed the reality of everyday life and and people the collective consciousness that there is in the city. I really missed it and yeah you have to work hard to find it. I mean it's sort of always finds you, whether you like it or not, whether in the mood for it or not. When eventually people be in our view, if he's sort of look at life anthropological everybody sort of becomes a chimp chimpanzee, you know, and you know it it's kind of fascinating, and in that regard I guess yeah yeah. I must get the feeling You would have been like a therapist or something like I probably would have been a therapist. I'm still holding you know, hey listen, you know, Thirdly, I e those kids

always on that actor who thinks his glass jar this very last job. So I'm always china enough. Think of what I could possibly do. Any a therapist comes up a lot because I do like helping people but that's not easy than none of its easy, wouldn't be an easier way out. It would just be some way to keep working unemployment and I we never gotten along I've been so Jim the towards it. I've handled it with anger and I've handled it with that with gentility, and neither of those approaches work. I just its incredibly awkward thing so you know I've I'm lucky in that I'm one of the more employed actors of my generation and still never enough, So you know I just like to keep busy and sometimes I think about becoming A car dealer or a therapist make it you all three simultaneously acting.

hardy are down, and when you have your study, my legs are forming one from the other was right and I wondered in in in curious. Also, I mean certainly your lens on your own self interest and also just the field. The career of acting is due, at least in part, to how you enter the profession in the first place, which it doesn't doesn't sound like you were. The kid who was groomed like from the earliest days. Saying I want to add, was almost like a lark yeah. I am. The great thing was my mom sort of from the very first moment. Let me know this is a fluke. You know this is not normal I got really lucky when I was a kid. I got discovered off the street, essentially without any desire to be an actor, and I found myself with a large, dramatic partner in a popular broadway play and now is my first job and then the first few years of my career were just I was hot, and I didn't know in lahti and then there

at the time where I had to choose. If I wanted to continue, and that was that was difficult, you know realizing oh wait, you you're an actor, and that was a fluke and you're going to have to work at this and deal with periods of unemployment and deal with rejection of things What were you like around about? Seventeen eighteen still really are still really young, but about to sort of enter into adulthood and- and you know, compete with adults, and so it was intimidating. It's still intimidating on some level I feel so lucky and privileged to be doing this cause. I am a movie buff. and I am a film fan and to even you know, consider myself on some level of filmmaker is is kind of

it's always been humbling to me, and so I feel I owe it to that privilege not to be an asshole, you know and never to take it for granted in an keep myself and check. So I do- and I are I think, that's why I've worked so much if I, if I can have a tribute anything, it's that term It's that I've I sort of show up wanting to service the project, not myself. You know and yeah try to try to do the right thing. I'm always curious. Also when and when you have someone who has spent decades in the field and weather's acting weathers, I mean really any

and, like you start out as a kid especially and then you enter the mid years of your life and then god willing you, he could pass that you change as an individual. He changed physically change emotionally and psychologically and there's so much about any career you enter, but I feel like especially performing arts where if people kind of like like this, is your lane, you know- and you just like milk it for as long as they don't change, don't try and step out of it, but at some point you as a human being change on a level where there's such cognitive dissonance nl like those moments, are really interesting. Inflection points young very much there. Now actually area. You know lately, while the diversity mandate they sort of unwritten diversity. Mandate has been a wonderful thing for the industry and and long overdue, and at the same time I am you know the sort of the white character actor is

not necessarily some somebody who works a lot anymore, I'm not a model, and I I don't know track people with my looks necessarily so and parts for guys like me, or are going to serve other ethnicities and again rightfully. So I just. What ends up happening is seen over the last three years. I've played overtly jewish characters, and I could do that with the back of my head, its ground I've covered a million times and so yeah does it become a stagnating boring, not challenging. Oh yeah. So, but at the same time daddy's gotta work and you know I I don't buy into the hall bloated artist perspective.

I do a job I'm on this planet to do what I done lucky to do. What I do it's not a hard job. It's a pain sometimes too have, I always say I guy, I love being an actor, I kind of being a professional actor cause hustle so much and you have to know skirt expectations. Preconceived notions about yourself, and it seems lately that has been a lot of that you know, but at the end of the day, if I just keep focusing on working and life becomes some much more than being an artist, I don't live for my art

and cause that's really unhealthy, and you know setting yourself up for rejection and or approval based on what you put out rather than who you are. You know I mean I'm not my product, even though tech we. For all intents and purposes, I am separating myself from the it's. It's it's a daily reprieve. You know, like I have to Remind myself every day that I am more than my job and it can be difficult when people go you're the go to rabbi or you know, have you ever done a holocaust movie, it's time yeah and it's like please someone rescue me from this reality. But again you know it. That would be ungrateful of me and

you know. I tried to bend myself in ways even within those characters, I just want to surprise people and if a carrot, Our role is not allowing me to do that on paper. I try to do it within my performance. The best I can do Not yet Global private aviation leader is known for personalizing every detail of your travels because net, yet standard is not just meet their definition of perfection it's to exceed yours. Discover more at net jets, dot com, like right, it is supported by I heard, so I am always looking for new ways to get more nutrients into my daily routine to promote

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well yeah I mean my kids are pretty great. Having them as irreparably- changed me for good or, worse, it's hard being a dad, but it's the best thing. I've ever done, and my wife is wonderful, being generous, seems to be my purpose in life being generous with myself, helping people that that seems to be much more important having perspective consistently learning coming from a place of. I don't know anything for as much as I know, and I dont really I can't understand alike

where you get to a point where you're hubris tells you that you know everything or you're, smarter or you're smart enough to me, there's just an unending search and within them thinness of of existence. You know there's so much by coming to it. From that perspective sing, ultimately, yale is low, meaningless, perhaps, but transcending the meaninglessness with knowledge of random crap. To me is really all our jobs because I think the smarter we all are especially emotionally intelligent, more emotionally intelligent, we are all, are the better. The world will be the easier life can be. You know

this country is interesting in the sense that we have so much abundance that we become chronically dissatisfied that it's never enough. Really, my focus in life is being satisfied: with the little tiny things nah. It sounds very zen and I'm not it's it's a goal I'm working towards, but I think awareness is the first, Pierre had completely agree amended the nose of generosity, certainly taking centre stage. I feel that something their tents. It touched on a lot of our was a little bit later, also by a real inquiry. See with you as well as whether that was a see that if planted early, the threw your mom at all or or- and they also had close relationships with grandparents and because the you come from a family that survived the holocaust and came here yeah. That was it was that

admitted to you in terms of values of the way you live, your life or yeah. I mean yeah a little bit, but really you know babe. How do I put this profound. self. Hate will really humbly you at a certain point and I've got loads of it. still do and always have, and I've gotten lot better. Only recently did I come to the place where I said you know, I'm not I'm sick of worrying about myself and worried about myself. Life, it's so self involved and probably why I'm a good actor, but you know

me. You know I haven't. Cancer was big one. I had a nervous breakdown in two thousand and one was a two thousand and ten, the day after I got married, I kind of freaked out and it lasted for nine months. Scott became full on shut in or goro phobic for nine months that'll? That really did it, and I am able to laugh at it now, but he had a spot. A cancer just the spot that was the end. I was all around the same time, also all around the same time here, in fact, the two were probably related because it was thyroid cancer and so my thyroid wars working well and as a result, I am was very, very depressed wildly depressed and em.

And then recently my dad passing was a huge right of passage that we all sort of have to go through at some point, and I I took everything I could out of it. You know in terms of asking why an answering with Understanding, rather than with rage and anger, and hurt again anthropological looking at my dad passing away, you know was fascinating to me. and a kind of made me. Just so much more grateful for having had him in and everything I have with now that he's gone. I am one of those guys are just believes that getting up after falling down is is required.

I would never want to get stuck in a rut. I am still evolving and I don't want to think I'm not an you know. there are certainly days were free alt stone, and it's it's like I said it's a daily reprieve. I got to sort of work on it every day or else I'll go completely insane and I'm only halfway there so far, You draw the word, which is awareness which I think is released. The heartbeat of everyone, unacceptable to you know something life as a whole, rather than what's happening to you in the moment. I'm a big believer in natural law. You know ass, having things are going to happen,

I like it. If it happens, that's the way we supposed that happens say it happened. You know like you can't or not. Everything is indicative of anything. You know things just happen. Change is constant. it's reliable. I know it sounds so like loose and thin, but I like it that way. I'd rather that than have to follow a set of rules are amiss. Have any preconceived notions should be rare. It's a universal truth. Really I mean for all of us. I think we all hate it because it means says a tibetan buddhist teacher and chug em chamba, who I'll get the quote wrong, but said. Essentially he had. The bad news is. Is that you're falling and nothing to stop you nothing to hold onto the good news? Is there's no ground

it has no ground. It's true. You know you can go as deep as you'd like you know, and sometimes there's buffers along the way. There's family and friends support that kind of keep you floating rather than falling, really fast and but yeah I mean we're floating it's crazy. This makes no sense, none of it makes sense and to try to make

so that is all I believe me. I did that for nine months of nervous breakdown, trying to figure out why the why the sun comes up in the moon, replaces it I'd just futile. You gotta transcend the meaninglessness, got it you have to, or else you know, if you're me at least you know it's about accepting, it is accepting it that you know the best you can do with your time is influence other people to do the best with their time and its domino effect. You know how I got from Steve. Steepest got really do have to step right into the and whoa I just woke up after I, oh you

I mean curious also because you're in that same thing that basically open the door to your career, also and introduce you to a guy who seems like NASA looking in at least became a real long term mentor, judd Hirsch, who had already had this astonishing long career, and I guess my curiosity, as you know, as we sit here, we kind of like explore these ideas like how

that relationship over time has has affected you or influence you, and the way that you see yourself. You evolve within your career and spit. Basically everything. Well, you know the thing about jug is there's just there's just a confidence rather than a preparation. You know the first job I did. He played my father and he'd be on stage for two and a half hours straight monologues nonstop. He ended up winning the tony award for best actor for that performance and he made it look easy and for him it was because he's just content and because he understood what he understood, he never pushed himself outside. He never challenged himself because he thought people will see it

took me a long time and only recently- and I come to the point where I don't look like I'm trying too hard. You know where I don't look like I'm thinking. You know. I used to now. I look back at some of my older work and I'm, like god, you know you're looking right at the camera, you looking right into the camera and people who watch me. But what are you talking about? No you're not, and I'm like no. I am, though,

where of that camera, and only recently have I been able to sort of lose myself and it's a confidence thing that judd, I think was born with he'd, probably say now, but he's just he's like a bull he's a big dude, physically and loud booming voice. Naturally I have the opposite: I'm not! I'm kind of I've come from a very sort of I'm a little p attitude. You know and so serve winging. It is way more fun than over preparing and some actor desperately need to prepare. You know I just now I just like doing it and I feel like that's enough

If you see that I love it, while I'm doing it and that's what you really want to see, that's what audiences are looking for passion and I have no qualms no guilt about saying that there's many mornings I show up to film, and I have no idea what my lines are. No idea, I've looked at them and know that sounds terrible, but it works for me, no one's yet better it's too much. That is interesting and also kind of ties in with what you're saying before about the idea of getting really comfortable stepping into like Joseph Campbell's abyss. This place, warily, you don't know, what's going to happen and everything isn't completely and utterly dial then, and there are one or two years, there's also there's an electricity right and am recently working with maggie john hall on the deuce was like animals. It was

It was the quintessential chemistry experiment that never than always kept giving positive results in her, and I we buzz. We just buzz together. and from day one we knew it. We actively spoke about it we said less, never work too hard on this, because the harder we work to make the buzz happen. It won't happen and it it just happens to dead she's, one of the greatest actors that ever lived and possibly in arguably the greatest alive. In my opinion, because I've seen her do things that are jawdropping and she prepares like crazy. We just have different styles, but she's. She comes from the place of let's not make choices and she's, not per se,

had there been times where I've had to say to maggie, hey you're, making, making choices and she's, obviously not to say that to me, because that was sort of em Comfort zone I relied on for a long time, was, make a choice on just it's a lot more real, a lot more profound, a lot more touchable and fillable and accessible when you're just giving it your all. In the moment it's like sports. You know you can plan a play, but there are so many variables you might as well just throw it see what happens and hope that the inter will use the right one. You know I did a movie a couple of years ago called hail caesar Cohen brothers movie, which is very much about that and in fact it's very obvious. about that. There's a moment at the end of the film were george clooney delivers, monologue and its

you know this was before they mean overshooting films from eighteen, different angles, where a scene from eighteen For angles, there were just the one shot on george clooney any at the nail: it any nails it, but he messes up his last line. The floods as last line in the whole thing ghost garbage and you see all the crew react and he reacts with disappointment, but then you just try again and the set. take. Isn't necessarily is good at this as the first, but you know. Ultimately, it comes down to what seems wildly prepared and glamorous and polished is just someone doing their job.

you know it's just someone do in there. I do my job my shop to work. They tell me to do something and I do it and I try not to piss anyone off. I try to make it better. That's really I just like keeping it extreme Seemingly simple. I also learned a bit of that like I took some upright citizens, brigade classes later in my career like and only a few years ago and just learning not to think and to trust myself hearing my own voice album being the moment more and also having created a series and been on that end, writing progressing that that was such an eye, opener experience for me, one that I may never ever do again was so well. It took me pass my limit, but

I mean as a as a writer or just as as an everything being you know, I mean I. I did challenge myself for I put myself in four and a half hours of prosthetic makeup every day that an improv the whole thing. but I'm proud of that show and then you know no one watched it and no one knows about it and I go into rooms and I pitch other shows and people go wait. You produced to show this and I'm like on t v and everything and what was what's the jones to step into the writing? Slash production, slashed direction, side of enemies, as no one I mean as a ticket literally creates the stories in the rules for you, I want to be someone. I want my kids to look back and say this guy worked is bought off at one point, at least, and I also so that's one into. I feel that I'm,

too many things for to rely on the industry to recognise, and so, if I'm just meant to you know where hats and pay us and be sitting and everything it be in know. Not then I'm then I'm it's on me to sort of up in that, and so yeah

it's pretty much why every actor starts riding as they. They see something in themselves. The perhaps the industry can't see or doesn't see, or you know, isn't, isn't something and I'll make money necessarily can put a value on in so I buy prefer at least trying I mean you know. The show I created show gigi. Does it that that show was the one thing and I am proud of it. You know I'm really proud of that. I actually did something. He knows I work my bought off and I am in it. It was funny You know we achieved the goal, you know. So that's! That's! Fine! Hey! It's jonathan from good lie! Project! If you are in your thirty to forty, is with friends too busy to join you on a vacation. You have to check out flash back the only group trap.

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his interesting. Also, you see swings in every industry and I feel, like you know there was this time. Where's relate tv was in its golden age in them from his relate. We took for damas and then the last. It feels like the last five six seven years, maybe longer, maybe even since her late, the sopranos like until he came to it like it profoundly changed what people thought was possible and to the stories that can be told and funded and produced in tv, and I feel like there's now you know like you, you have a federally like all these studios who are doing stunning stuff on a smaller screen, right, pushing the edge on away that that sometimes is harder to do on a large scale. Although interesting, well, your you're you're, new crown back, maybe argues the other thing. Well yeah. I I think it's a very powerful film because of its ambiguity, which is something that tv ambiguity toward its subject matter.

which is something that tv as done really really well now, for a few years, and yet worse, I used to the formula of film having a happy ending. You know three x structure, conflict in the middle. You know, and here is a film that sort of takes a more television approach in that it has an anti hero as its as it some protagonists and. You know really allows the viewer to question his or her own per active on the subject matter rather than sort of political using it or shoving downs down peoples throughout the film is, is wonderfully ambiguous about a very, very touchy subject. I mean.

no he's retaliate set the scene a little bs, so crown big place takes place in current dale aids it's essentially a ride along the that's why it's called crown vic, because the car car yeah a ride along with a veteran police officer. Who's found his way into some trouble or training a police officer on his very first day on patrol, and it happens to be what will probably end up the worst day on patrol that this kid will ever face His very first day, everything that can go wrong and wild and unexpected sort of happens and dumb he has to rely on this older police officer to guide him ethically through it all and the police officers, Thomas janes character, is reluctant to do that.

and so the film just sort of is a look into the possibilities, the variables the unexpected truths of being a police officer in a city and I in a city full of crime and what it takes to be that person and what how the job ends up changing those. People glue klein tanks, character, who is the younger police officer on his first day sort of has two very quickly: decide where his ethics lay and I would imagine,

it's a question that burdens every police officer and he gets some hard truths in the process. He asked a face. Some hard truths about his own family cause. His father was a police officer or other, and so it really hits home and its job. You really camp freak out you're not allowed to to throw down your garden badge and say I need a break. I need a moment. and, as a result, a lot of times that break that moment comes in the wrong manifestation, becomes brute police brutality toward toward criminals? I'm believer in mandatory psychological evaluations for police officers weekly all over the country. I think in service to them not just two

community. It makes me very sad to see police officers brutalizing people on camera. It makes me sad for both parties, and the movie is about really that sadness does the situation all in right now, especially with cameras sort of I mean, police officers are forced to wear cameras themselves and the movies gotten a very, very strong reaction, which is exactly What the filmmakers wanna, Joel sousa, who wrote and directed it, it's exactly what he was looking for. Is you know he doesn't want to there's no applause for the effort theirs,

We don't want that. We want people to re, evaluate their view of police brutality and police in a whole way, not we're not asking anyone. The movie doesn't ask anyone to take sides. I play the lackey police officer to a wildly Renegade cop, who is doing the wrong thing- and I sort of their kind of encouraging him to do it and having a lot of fun with it, in fact, and even that character, and even our characters are not we're not given the typical movie bad guy vibe, you kind of see us break, certainly josh hopkins, who plays

The wild cop he breaks at a certain point. You seem as a human being a broken human being shattered by the job and shattered by his own, his own anger and rage, And- and so it's it's not. What we ve heard overwhelmingly from the police community is that it's a very accurate description of sort of the psychological throes of being a police officer. And in that way very much needed, but again it doesn't take sides which anger is a lot of people and what isn't what it? What's better than a controversial film I mean

to me. Those are the kinds of films I want to see. I'm not into melodramas or, or you know, goofy comedies or horror movies are meant to stuff that really pushes my buttons and that's what this film does did did makes you think you kind of have to it. Doesn't you have no choice but make because the film doesn't take size, you have no choice but to to either remain ambiguous or become ambiguous or take aside and so we leave it in the audience. The sands, it's it's very much open for interpretation. Yeah. It's disquieting very much doubt at EU and, like you said there

no standing ovation at the end and that's not the intention of it. No, the intention is sort of to to make you think and and to an end, to realize to a certain extent you know, there's cause we all. We all do and define clear life that we want a clear delineation. We want good and evil. We wanted this, and that- and you know, the reality is that's not life and it sits much more complex and we love to label people, as good or bad right arm and eyes, I think I have yet to meet the human being. Who is not some way, god elements of all their men circumstance stress pressure, violence, whatever it may be, plays a huge role in what side

judges and how contained or off the rails and ends up going. I mean that's exactly that's a great summation that I mean, and its grounded with incredible performances and thomas Jane is re is really jawdropping. Lee almost blood curdling lie real and brilliant. In that respect, he's just a tremendous actor always has been, and so. He just brings another it to another level there every day and for you, like you were saying earlier, one or do fascinations is really exploring the I mean condition why we do what we do and behave. The way we have participating in that from the inside out must have been kind of fascinating to absolutely yeah

You know I need you jump at a chance or a fear me jump at a chance to make something that you know can be as profoundly disquieting as this film there's just you know, like I said, there's not a lot of that. Go on in film there's a lot that happening in television, and so yet you know the the fact that it's not episodic. The fact that it's a one piece won't you know hour and a half film kind of adds to it's disquieting nature at the end of it you're good kind of like well, that's it. That story. Doesn't continue it's over what happens to these police officers? You don't get to know, that's that's up to you to figure out so yeah. It's kind of kind of really it just works united, so nice to make independent I've made so many independent films for next to nothing budgets that

and a kind of this half disappointing. Or you know this. One, in my opinion, is through the roof, great, especially knowing what was put into it to make it. Read it did it did it achieves on all levels? In my opinion, I am very proud to be the foe says, resumed the ones our sitting era, recording that some shortly before the movie premier is actually in your your and they're talking about it and sharing it, but also it imagined a point where you're also exploring what's next. For me, it's really the the sounds like you're, also be that he shared earlier serve a bit of an inflection point in your life. So, namely this is good life project, so within this container of the good life project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up staying sober clean, accepting love the truth of love,

That's that's what I work on and that to me the most important thing you know you know it's, it's so cheesy to say, but. It gets sir and its cliche. I guess at this point, but like the beatles america, there is none You can do, but you can learn how to be you in time. It's easy. All you need is love, it's just wildly, True, it's just me neither in a time where we're all trying to figure out what the truth is and being told. The truth is not what it is. That's just the basic truth. You know you just there's, there's nothing. We can do but learn how to be us in time. So that's it! Thank you. You got it.

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