Christen Brandt and Tammy Tibbetts are on a mission to unlock the potential of girls and women, especially in parts of the world where they’re often excluded from education and, in turn, much of life and the opportunity to help shape their communities and lives in a meaningful way.
Both Christen and Tammy grew up in households where they were loved and supported, taught to believe in themselves and the power of education and become strong advocates. They were the first in their families to go to college, and both landed in the fashion magazine world in New York after graduating, where they started building careers and rising up in the industry.
But an increasing awakening to inequity led them into a collaboration that would start as a viral video to raise awareness and eventually lead them out of the world of magazines and to co-found a foundation to help women and girls globally become educated, called She’s the First. Along the way, they’ve reimagined the foundation model, becoming leading voices in a new approach to philanthropy that has revolutionized outdated models by shifting power to the most vulnerable. So many people starting coming to them to learn more about how to step into the world of giving in a different way, they decided to distill their philosophy and strategies into a powerful new book, Impact: A Step-by-Step Plan to Create the World You Want to Live In. (https://www.planyourimpact.com/)
You can find Christen Brandt & Tammy Tibbetts at: She's the First (https://shesthefirst.org/)
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
So my guest. Today, christian bread and ten meteorites there on a mission to unlock the potential of girls and women, especially in parts of the world where there are often excluded from education and in turn from much of life and the opportunity to help shape their communities and lives in a really meaningful way, which interesting is
kristen and Tammy. They grew up in households where they were loved and supported, taught to believe in themselves and the power of education and to become strong advocates and to have you
strong point of view. There are also both the first and their families to go to college and they
landed in the magazine world in new york city, swiftly fashion after graduating, where they started to build careers and really rise up in the industry, but an increasing awakening in.
Really the inequity that was happening around them lead.
collaboration. That would start as a viral video to raise awareness and eventually led them out of the world of magazines and to become
oh founders, of a foundation to help women and girls globally become educated, called she's, the first and along the way they
ray imagined the foundation model becoming leading voices in million new approach to philanthropy that has revolutionised outdated models by shifting
or to the most vulnerable, so many
we'll started coming to them to learn more, not just
how to be a part of she's the first, but also
how they did what they did and had a step into the world of giving in a different way that they decided to distilled their philosophy and insights and strategies to
the powerful new book, called the impact it step by step plan to plead the world. You want to live in so excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan fields- and this is good, like project.
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right now.
You're hanging out new york you're working with his really interesting organisation that will drive into bottom
This was not either of your original path or intention when you thought about what you be doing in your cook: grown up lives,
what are we sort of them?
the story, prolific as it makes more sense with Tammy and then war chris.
Or ring you into the conversation that would just sir, like dive into the whole mix
Tell me, I know one of these. I've heard you repeat over and over indifferent come
patients. Is you grew up as a kid shy,
I'm curious. I know you ve said that what I'm curious about his head, it actually shop in your life,
Well, you know, what's funny is that after this conversation, I actually have an interview with the editor in chief of my high school newspaper, the viking, by which I used to be the editor in chief of survival,
a whole circle moment. But that takes me back to when I was seventeen and when I was in high school, I dreaded speaking up raising my hand in class standing up in front of people to speak was
my worst nightmare and I
really found myself expression and some competence in writing, which is why was drawn to journalism and decided that, when I went off to college I would I would be a journalism major with the dream of one day being a magazine editor
senior year of
school. There is the tradition of the superlatives in the yearbook, many
I can remember that, and I was voted in a fairly large
a class of a thousand some students? I was the one who was most shy and,
I remember posing for that picture in the year
they they asked me to.
the stand in the lobby of the high school- and there is this pillar and they asked me to hide behind it and pretend, as if I was just
scared of the world,
in my head. I was like this is a terrible things have been known as most shy. This is,
meticulous, but I went,
with that, and I just silently promised myself that I would make this most shy. Title
irony one day, and I would be anything but and I would go,
after college and I would go where no one knew me and become the young woman. I wanted to be.
so that's kind of where everything changed for me, as when I began my journey as a first generation college student, I mean
I'm curious also, whether so shies and interesting word, and it's loaded word and its also
imprecise where these days right? Because you know-
It often speaks to this spectrum that ranges from severe social anxiety to introversion and which
listen to me about that and I'm curious about how you experience it is. You know
we we have looked at
Generationally shy or introverted was the functional equivalent of broken there's something wrong with you. That has to be fixed. I think Susan Cain's book quiet hope in so many people's eyes, including me, because I'm definitely more on the introvert side of the spectrum and really
made. I think a lot of people wake up to the fact that their ashley's,
There is just the sort of like
that drum, and it's not.
nothing wrong with being on the more introverted side of it. You know unless it
and it s in anxiety or things that actually stop you from living. Let you want live
when cures, how you actually experience it like did you?
is this as just this
it's the way, I'm actually pretty good with it, but for this social reactions to it, or was it actually more of it leading
as a socialist, I did everything for you
So I am an inch and I think that is different from being shy and kristensen extrovert. So I week we complement each other really well. An initial version has actually been a great strength in this year of twenty twenty, and I made me very well equipped record unseen and given me a lot of resilience but
as a kid as a teenager being shy, I was really afraid of the judge.
When that other people would make of me and what I had to say, and
I no longer
identify a shy cause. I I think,
I realise that,
I had to make my voice
matter and stand up for something and when you do refrain and record
as you can push yourself too
speak up and and be a leader
to serve others. That was my way of overcoming the fear
other people's judgment was
socially social anxiety, I dont
fi with label it as that
cause. I did have
friends, who were like the studious quiet bunch, who I had good relationships, win
but I never went to school dance.
ironic. We can talk about this later, but I ironically, I worked for seventeen magazine before starting she's the first and I would
a part of a magazine that I never felt cool enough to read
because I didn't feel, like my clothes were stylish. I didn't wear make up as a teenager, so
those. I think my
security came from
now. In retrospect, I
that, together this way of seeing these images of what a cool
competent girl
looked like an, I didn't think so
that aligned with who I, who I
at the time, don't you
love those societal expectations and how they have
like frame our early life. So often it does
like, though you know,
while maybe surely the social interaction side of things was yours,
we are learning that you
really comfortable, actually taking to writing and having a voice and having an opinion and actually leading in the context of written expression
so. It sounds like it was less about a fear of being judged for
What's going on in your head in your voice and your ideas and your thoughts, it was just sort of like it was the channel. It was the the the path because I
lot of people who are terrified of writing a pretty things into words and help people respond to that, and we certainly sheila
Certainly it is as yet yeah. That's a really interesting observation, and I think some of us just like to collect our thoughts and process it before and put
they together
Even so I mean like writing a book. Is such a vulnerable thing to do because you're, it's not like a tweet that you can delete it's out there for ever in the world. But I thank you.
that's why what
ten years have gone by where I ve built up that
competence to or to justice.
do it anyway, and certainly when you have partners and collaborators as I'm lucky to having Kristen it does make you more brave, sir. You
and up as you mention first person your family to go to college focused.
and disorderly continuing the process, reuse, journalism through college and then
out into the world of magazines, which is a whole interesting place to be
and when we bring into the conversation across and also certain
at the time he described you as as an extrovert did that show up really early in your life, also were user of the person who loved and needed to be around people to fill you up
yeah, I've, always loved people, and also I grew up
surrounded by people surrounded by women actually in a very loud
households and so I've have
sound energy
from the energy of other people, s always really resonated with me. There told
but that herself now so I my mom, had me really young. She was a second all this and shoes. Nineteen when she had me and so
hurry. Younger sisters were constantly around. We lived with them and with my grandparents, and so
I had all of this feminine energy constantly
I was the only grand can
and so
you know I had. This was really interesting dichotomy going where my grandmother spoil the hell out of me
They literally she used to say to me your
and bread. So you can do whatever you want,
and then I had my mom who you know she had me really young and she immediately went to work as a waitress and then eventually put herself through
school to become a nurse
was working nights and and holidays in the e r for a while before she before she got on her feet, and so, on the one hand I had my grandmother telling me I could do anything. I wanted
and on the other I had my mom was constantly drilling into me. How hard you
to work
where'd to get ahead in life both in a book.
her words and through her actions mean the women, the woman worked
to take care of me and eventually, my my little brother as
how does young christian process those for, like seeming similar
opposing are duly messages.
Younger sin, decided that she can have whatever she wanted if she worked hard enough for it and why
Sleep really ended up.
Keeping my world view even to you today in that
I have a very hard time accepting that that is not true for everyone, depending on on the circumstances that you're born into an
as one of their the roma
it is for me a life is that I think it should be true. I think you should be able to
and get a head and it it kills me that it it just, is not there
I mean it occurs to me also that here you go
in them
multi generational house, over three generations under one roof,
which used to be the norm,
Did you ask me, like a generation or two ago? It's just the way it was, but has actually become. I think me
more the exception. I remember a little while back we had who lancastrian
who shared how he had a similar experience. You grow with his grandmothers mothers, brothers,
and he shared how sometimes
really challenging- that dynamic was but also really powerful. It was
be in that environment and how he felt like it really equipped him differently than a lot of a lot of other people,
curse, whether you use
similar way, I think,
the thing that has really stuck with me from my upbringing
is more than the gender aspect of it and because it was multigenerational, it was even stronger. So my
whole family from the time that I was born,
really reiterated that men were untrustworthy ends.
That's because for me
of them. Their experiences with men really proves that theory proven
they re out and so
growing up, surrounded by these women who created uncultivated? This,
incredibly happy childhood for me
at the same time that they were reinforcing these messages about what
in hood meant and about
the opposing forces between men and women in a lot of ways as if they saw the world, really
that shipping, who
became, and the ways that I ended up needing to explore some of those standard, ailment dynamics later in life too yeah I mean it sounds like that also is part of
what you end up really focusing on. When you end up again similar tammy first generation going to college and then say there was a really an extension that was really dynamic and what you focused on with a lot of your resurgence or like exploring
women's issues, dishes and equity, and things like that
yeah- and you know
It is important to know
in my childhood growing up both in there
the lives of ants as well as some
there. You know my mother.
Ex husband and then her
my father's brother, we spent a long long time living with eating
These experience has taught me a lot about what emotional abuse the plague about. Why unhealthy relationships are clear about the physical abuse, the plague,
by the time I left for college.
The idea that women
and and girls had a right
to be safe,
would be safe was
ingrained so deeply into my dna that it ought
we express itself, and the truth is that I actually wasn
well to identify at what I had lived through and white. Some of my family members had lived through could be called abuse until much later in life, but because of those experiences I was still expressing them, and so, as you hinted at jonathan when I went to college all the research that I was doing was around issues that were in packing women and girls
wrote about issues impacting women and girls.
Similar. To tell me, I went into the magazine world so
I could talk to women and girls in and ended up working at glimmer magazine honour on a scholarship project for them. I think that,
lot of times the experiences that we have growing up, shape us and
at our actions.
Where we can even name it
For me even realize, what's happening were all right.
acting on it and it son.
It takes us a while, certainly in my case, a dead for a bit
I used to be able to catch up and say, oh. This is why this has been so meaningful to me. This is why this has been so important that so interesting right it sort of 'em year. It's really hard, sometimes to understand the context.
When you're, in the middle of the facts, cat and in all parts of life for pretty much everyone, so I think it's me
Fascinating, you know, so you both are leaving these very different life, yet so many similarities in so many overlaps and experience. You end up
In two different colleges in in the same industry in the magazine industry us,
What's interesting to me, you end up,
serve glamour, oriented magazines yeah, which
which, on the one hand, is like hey cool new york magazine industry. There's no other place to be.
but on the other hand, given that the
underlying the cheaper fascinations, interesting new impulses and sense of purpose, with both of you.
It's interesting that that those that becomes the content
We are first at into usefully the working world, I'm cool.
Is how I'm sure you both reflected on it
independently with each other tommy. I loved you sure like explore what your thoughts are on, that
and and how it either worked with or create attention with you now,
absolutely right. We were in the magazine industry and, like the tail end of the glory days where it was still very much double where's prada and
It was a huge contrast to this personal interest that I had in
girls who were living in poverty in and struggling to have access to education. That was an issue that I started to become aware of my senior year of college, because I was doing this capstone reporting project for a class.
A woman who was a refugee and the liberian civil war and has
the foundation back in liberia to help kids,
basic needs met and for girls to go to school
and I was really fascinated by both her story in the context of her trying to create this change under in a country that was now under the leadership of the first to be male president. In all
africa, Alan Johnson, sir, we
for me. That's when this notion of the power of being a first step,
and to settle in
because I hadn't identified as a first generation college, grand or student united come to campus waving a flag. Saying look at me. Nobody showed me like house
the finger all this out. It was.
MR thread, that I pulled out as
was graduating so
I this this woman, her foundation was headquarters in new york city, so I wouldn't volunteer for her. She didn't have a staff.
After my days, working in the hearse tower, I would just walk a couple blocks down the street to her apartment and do all sorts of administrative work. I'd send out the taxes,
it's too her donors. I would help her organise
get her gallery that were at the four seasons, hotel and
what all I learned a lot about how nonprofits run
and I saw on one hand I saw the power of when you can get these resources, of which there are plenty in new york, city and fund.
That into community is that
dont have any it just change
the entire life outcomes, particular
we for girls who would go,
de graduate break the cycle of poverty in their family.
And I was coming to these realizations in
two thousand seven to two thousand nine. So that was a time also when
attention was starting to be paid-
of scale in the public eye and mainstream culture to girls?
there was a documentary and a book that came out on the
You have girls education, so I was kind of their noticing, like I think, there's a lot of opportunity here and
here I am twenty three years old and on facebook I facebook came out when I was a sophomore in college, and I was seeing how my friends were.
next thing- and I was
hosting about this volunteer work.
and they wanted to be a part of it, but they can
in a word. The ticket
the thousand dollar tickets to the gala and there
just this disconnect on well
didn't feel right that there are-
We were in this room and everyone's like having their dinner and photos of poor children were just like on the screens,
they felt off and
that's when I took a step back and I said,
I didn't intend to work at all the nonprofit industry myself like I wanted to continue on the path of being a magazine, editor,
But I recognise that media has a lot of power to
people aware of issues and also give them cause to action on how they can help, and I became
fixated on. How can I direct my peers, who don't have a lot of money at but who
can all do something and can all do small things happen
I give them a step to take to support girls.
gravitated to this concept of girls would be the first.
To graduate high school
And that's when I clicked for me that it would be really powerful to launch a social media campaign and
creative and betty. I had done something similar at work work.
With the seventeen bran. I launched a campaign called donate. My dress, which was about
getting people to donate their own bridesmaids and prom dresses, two girls in financial mean. So I thought
if we had this model but applied it to girls who are just trying to get access to school and
that's when I posted to my own facebook page saying here, have this idea for a campaign called she's the first here
Why I'm passionate about it? Does anyone want to help
that's unchristian enters the scene and responds and we start collaborating
the way to launch a social media campaign, and
we began doing. That issue is still a senior at circus university, but
It was something that happened like after hours of this glamorous magazine job I had, and I think it best
to me out- because I saw within my workplace-
I was fortunate enough to be serving a readership, that is my northstar. You know I was taught
two girls and and building their confidence. I think subconsciously, trying or maybe consciously
trying to tell them what I wished.
could tell my own seventeen year old self.
so it didn't give me a lot of meaning and purpose.
I also like other editors at the time. You know you go to fancy press events and being taken out
One shares of publicists- and it just seems to me- like all of these-
companies. All these brands that are in the magazine like how can
A funnel then towards
making up making
impact
and I wanted to channel those resources that I saw in the media industry
to the causes that I cared about.
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And this is where you at your increasing, really start to combat the other, although it's not the first time that you had met yet there, there was, I guess, oh sure, like a shared organization that was involved,
in scholarships where near the-
early connection? Can it was there, but it was pretty loosen over the years and in this
Are they coming back together
What's interesting also is the
store you're sharing is so similar in a lot of ways to
Scott Harrison and the the origin story for charity water. In that it's not
how much a walking away from
bandinage what you're doing it sort of its looking,
what you're doing and looking it may be, the savary and the less every part of what you're doing and saying what he said.
Is helping me develop both said
skills and am an ecosystem
relationships, what if we repurposed it,
when we took everything that we learn, how to do and we're getting good at, and we re purpose debt for a different outcome. So Chris
you see, I'm Tommy's outrage and.
I got something in use. I ha ok, it's interesting
I am so as semi mentioned, I was still in collars when we, when we first started she's. The first and
I've been doing a lot of research on poverty alleviation on crossing women's rights,
because of my own
background and and
because I wanted to write about something that mattered
I wanted to use this platform for something not
that really mattered. Anything
also relevant to the story is the fact that ten me and I
come from very solidly middle class backgrounds
my mom was a nurse Tammy's mom worked in a school and I think it
It's in a way what
You think, as a kid is.
Possible for you, when you think about careers.
in that. I think that you do kind of gravitate towards things that you can see that feel very tangible, because you know that
do need to make money right there like there's no world in which you can go to school and not make money after the fact,
because that is the reality of a no class life, and so for me. I think one of the reasons that I reached for journalism and that I reached for editing and magazines was because I
like that was away that I could talk to women and I could talk to girls and it
I would also pay the bells right.
I like. I didn't feel that I had the luxury of a less or
unless conquer.
Option? And so
in college was the first time I really had a chance to explore what I could be doing for fun outside of that,
and a lot of my fun and looking like running the campus magazines and working extracurricular and volunteering, and because it is doing so much research on girls
the occasion on girls rights on poverty alleviation. I was seeing all of the data that was then coming out
after these longitudinal study is about the impact
girls, education.
Communities around the world and the idea that if only half of your population is educated
then all of your other initiatives, whether that is medicine or clean water, or what have you
the only going to be half its effective and-
when I saw Tammy's post you know my ambitious college self was like oh yeah. We could. We could definitely do that. We should do that. Why aren't we doing that?
I messaged her back and I was the
only one to message her back, so I am. I got the job certain of that
because I think it's really its powerful,
anything else. Kids, I open a year for em
the reality is most people. Listening to this are probably going to be living in a more comfortable western culture, western
andrew with access to the internet and access to all.
Of resources into the ability to listen to a broadcast in urban, join your walking around the data on
education inequity in women, especially in developing nations and around the world there.
I mean there's
This is a powerful
information about both the positive role
when education becomes a priority and resource, but also the negative riddle when it.
not you know it's an end and how that ripples out into all aspects of personal life, family life
culture, society and all these things,
can you share a little bit more about what some of that wisdom is
well what we know And- and these are sat her in
right now. Two thirds of the world's illiterate population are women. We know
that there are a hundred and thirty million girls who are out of swollen won't go to school.
we know that there are another twenty million by the way that might not return after the corbett maintain pandemic.
And then we know things like that. Every
seven seconds. There is a girl under the age of fifteen who is being married off,
This is this is the reality that were working against.
Is that when
particularly when families are facing an economic crisis,
it's often women and girls who pay the price either
in early marriage in
child labour in dropping out of school and so
is what we are working against those either. Those are the
that we're trying to close an idiot
honestly. The covered nineteen pandemic has made those
there's a lot harder, we're looking at
until backslide
to where we were ten years ago or fifteen years ago, and not that's scary,
It is a scary reality of our work at the current moment. Jargon
Imagine that's kind of devastating tommy
when you see christians response and she's a good hey, I'm in, and then you also happen to know that that's the only response that you ve gotten garden, we're still talking about the early days who were still talking about you know this is really just a campaign, not just but it's a campaign. You know, there's a video there's, let's see if we can do this one thing together,
that pretty quickly morse into partnership it more into hey what if we turn this into something bigger,
What, if we turn this into a foundation and organization that actually had its own legs, it's on funding and made
sir priority
Really, with the goal of
gender inequality by supporting girls, Joe to be the first new family to graduate to actually move through a full educational process
at the same time, on a personal level. Both of you have to make this
it's kind of interesting right because first
nation college coming from solids early middle class backgrounds, as you both described landing the big power.
Washing job in new york city,
which is, is the aspiration for so many people in the world, while the print media and then you both-
saying? Ok, we
worked so hard to get to this place.
And we believe yelling it. Hardly you have to work
but at least in art nina place it. This is possible. We're gonna walk away from it,
in the name of starting this thing that we have never done before. We now have a ton of experience and doing
I'm curious how hard that decision or easy. That decision was for both you and then I'm also curious
did your family's respond to that decision
since the first ways has snowballing over the course of three years before,
I quit my job and jumped ship. So
something at that point now we're in twenty twelve, I
step away in a candle burning at both ends. I would wake up at six a m work on she's, the first until I had to be in the office by ten weeks.
office at six and then
seven to midnight. I would be working,
it was, they had a lot of energy as as a young person, but I was starting to get really burnt out of strain. Make mistakes at my day. Job
and I knew that I'd have to make a choice, because I couldn't contain
new to perform well-
give seventeen what it deserved and also keeping.
The first going like she's, the first will either have to fizzle out, were higher.
me and higher staff to to support its growth and
The reason she's the first was taking off is it was gaining traction in two ways,
and one way it was our community of donors who were loving and felt like
was something that they could have. They can actually make an impact and they could see the difference that they were making
so they went through word of mouth. It continued to grow through social media grew and then
On the other hand, we were winking off to grow
it's organizations working with girls around the world and starting to build relationships with those organizations and their response and how they shared with us that she's the fur
was meaning a need now
in terms of sending them money but also listening to now,
what girls needed to succeed, but what the organizations needed to build their capacity and
to be able to take
their own local solutions to help girls.
that were set up to do today,
training organizations as well as funding them
so I had to decide. Am I
and again she's the first the shot, it has to be a tremendous force for change, and I
when about trying to get funding for
start salaries
I have a story. I love to tell about how it actually all came down. One of our
first funders. He sits on our board today, Tom
He is very philanthropic man, with three daughters. He lives in new jersey
And the reason that we know Tom is because back and twenty twelve one
But my volunteers shit
a cab with a woman
who knew tom
here they were to strangers in a cab. They struck up a conversation that led the violent
or to talk about she's the first and then
when are they exchanged contact information? The woman said: oh, you know I'm one,
Clients time, like he's really passionate about
equality and wants to make a global impact they decide.
At that time needed to meet tammy, and we had our first meeting. I, when I shared she's the first with tom, and I I
the term I done my research- I saw that he had made some major gets to other organizations and I
I asked him if he would be our first funder. He and his wife,
I was so nervous because I had never asked
so I was really gonna asking people for twenty five dollars, but not for twenty five thousand dollars
I created this brochure for him in, like microsoft,.
Word or whenever programme it was an
he took her and he said I'll think about it and
the next day he
me back and said he and his wife would love to give us that seed funding
That was that was when I realized. Ok, I'm gonna take a chance. I got twenty five thousand dollars in the bank, it's not full salary, but it will get me started and from
if she's, the first had my full time focus. I really believe that I would be able
you bring in more resources the
That could happen. I ask myself: is that
I would fail and if I did
I knew that I would be hired back in the magazine industry. It was. I was starting to get a lot of recognition for my role as on seventeen first social media editor. I was
on the cover of industry magazine you, the thirteen under thirty issue and getting all these awards for it. So
I realise that there was a safety net for me, but for the girl,
who she's the first serves there was
such safety net, so
That's when I decided by this is worth
calculated risk on my part and then ask for my family. They
surprise actually
They are really encouraged me on.
Trusted me, and here I am
Nobody privilege that I didn't graduate with any debt, because
my dad he worked over
time hours like throughout my teenage years.
So that, in addition to my scholarships than my parents didn't want my sister and I took graduate with debt, so I didn't have that burden I didn't have children
I didn't have other than paying my rent.
It was pretty cheap because of a rent, stabilize department. I had
I had the privilege and the luxury of being able to take that bet on myself
Christian was that europe
similar
yeah. I think that for me
That choice is Tammy quit
seventeen in may and then my contract, a glamour was up for renewal in august.
And so
I
came in to into that month. Knitting
make this decision about. Was I going to renew for a year glamour, or was I going to to quit tour
she's the first and I
did have student loans, and
was very nervous about the prospect of of not bringing in enough money
I knew to think
First that first wonder that we had who provided that seed funding for us to get started. He also set me up with a one day per week, job that would
give me just enough flexibility and just enough money for me to make it work. Secondly,
Was that when I thought about the impact
of these two potential,
jobs in the world of these, these two potential, some parts in the world. I was
turning to see the limits of working with him,
the magazine industry.
Particularly when you're, when you're starting out- and you don't get to say what the articles are going to be about and what the theme
the issues are going to be, and so.
looking at a situation where we
that is essential to take she's the first to the next level
and so I had four months.
And I knew that I had four months and if we didn't have enough in the bank at that point to start paying me, then I would
a full time job again,
and we took
as for months and we made it happened, and so in january of that next year, twenty thirteen,
especially on staff as well yeah, I mean it's him
It's amazing what happens when you know that you have a certain like clearly ident
five runway and it is me,
a break is like this is the mark that you're looking ahead, you know and
and for you so that you
becomes- is this season where you're, both all in and you
a certain drive to make something happen, and that first thing is yes, we want to serve all these women around the world and organizations who sir women.
and at the same time we have-
make this sustainable.
because you're saying notice, something which is very appealing in a lot of ways to you and to a lot of people, but there's a real
big yesterday is a much bigger. Yes, if you can also make it make it work
good sustainable, suggests relate. The initial go over
period of years. It does become sustainable becomes this. You know
for organization. That's raise millions of dollars at a mechanism.
Organizations reason devote you have raised millions of dollars
Yet this is the work of human beings. Are women who have gone out and worked fiercely to make this happen?.
And build a global network of relationships with organizations with schools around the world with other organisations that allow
to do this incredible work
from india to uganda, to Guatemala, to so many different places and
from what I understand, thousands of nine or ten thousand women's lives touched at this point is not just their lives.
visually. We talked about the ripple. You know like for everyone,
a person who you are able to effect theirs
siblings, the parents, the family, the extended family, the community
everyone else who benefits, because these women are then going out into the world and then sometimes coming back to their community
and making profound change so
being in in this position right now, you know, there's
there's the over mission of what you ve been doing and the stunning work that you have accomplished:
then there are also a lot of the warnings either.
Almost always come from stumbles and figuring things out and either being
a part of or witnessing things that don't work right
That is what your you're new book together in tat. Part of it is about the planning process about really put into other intelligent plan, getting clear on what
you're doing a thing-
most curious about some of them.
The other awakenings that have
drift into your experience. One of them
is around bias, and I think it's.
So an important moment to have the conversation around that tommy use that were privilege enough.
of times- and I
a lot of our the alot of people,
I'm a white middle aged guy
in my eyes, had been increasingly open over the last number of years to a lot of things I never considered are thought about before
just in the context of my day to day life here
when you're doing the work of raw,
king out to other countries, many of the women that you're helping black or brown in very deed
cultures your two white women in the united
It's doing. This work talked him.
about talk to me
at this dynamic and
how you have both experienced it. What you ve been awakened to end
and seen and and learn from it, maybe even changed on the way. I think this is
sweet hide in really closely with the evolution of
the first, which is that
she's. The first started with the idea that we could
and we were provide one scholarship at a time
for one girl somewhere in the world.
what their initial model
is based on a kind of after we came out of that the media campaign phase
what we learned over time from those local partners was as Tammy hinted. I some of the some others
structural issues and challenges that they were facing in their work.
and also the ways in which
the international development space very
much mimics.
built on
colonial worlds and colonial frameworks,
and what I mean by that. Is that often the way that aid workers, the with charity works, is that a solution is decided on in the? U s or in though in the
starter the global north,
and it is then implemented all around the world and these places that were traditionally colonise in many many many cases, and we just expect
that is going to work
ever handing over any power
So the decisions continue to be made and places far far away from where these solutions
when quotas are being
amended and
these power dynamics of where power sets and where decisions are made and who has impacted by those decisions, stays the same just as it was in colonial times. Except now. We're talking about education programmes were we're talking about social programmes, and so those
good intentions, don't make
system work any better.
the only way to really create sustainable long term change, is to have a local approach.
And so what we ve done
and very, very lucky in the partners that we worked with over the years that they have been willing to have conversations with us about what really is needed and it
to open our eyes to how the system works so that,
the change it. I think the other thing that that position,
as well to learn about
how our work,
is or is not impact for is that we set in this unique space where she suffers. Seeks funding from donors
and we also provide funding to grassroots organisations
and so we understand kind of inherently the power dynamics when you are asking for money or when you are receiving money from someone
and the constraints that puts on you
what this means is that today, the way that we work with our
is by ensuring that they have flexibility. We provide them with funds for girls programmes, but they decide where it gets spent. We work
come on improving outcomes. So we co host trainings with local facilitators, local experts on how
improve outcomes for girls within a local context, and we network
so we connect our partners to one another and to other organizations in the space, so there
they can learn from one another
Ultimately,
go, all really is now
about helping,
What about changing the life of
one girl, although those stories, are incredibly powerful
about. How do we change
power dynamic. How do we build
new centres of power around the world,
third in girls and women who can
Change the world for the better,
yeah. I mean that so it's a really powerful
reflection. You know, and it's really speak to the shift from
Here is what I want to do to tell me what you need us to do,
tommy, I imagine so much of that involves.
Humility and listening which, when you and
something like that: you're so charged, and you just want early
If that sometimes hard to access, especially in the early days
I think one thing, I'm Kristen just profound
summarised how she's the first has evolved and it made me
liked on how, along that, on that journey. At it, we ve learned how to sort of edit ourselves out of the story,
in the early days it was very much you know, tammy
stan founded, she's the first, and it was a prominent part of how people were introduced to the organization and
now, in the model, what we know works is girls, having role models that look like them
that's why we fund programmes where they don't just have access to school.
But to mentorship programmes led by women who have come from the same source.
economic background and culture who have overcome the same obstacles that they are faced with.
And in my role as c o interfacing with
donors. Are they in those early days? I oftentimes centred the donors needs,
knowing that donors liked to be gratified with the connection to one girl that they are sponsoring and
We used to have that kind of an old school sponsorship model
and it took me several years to recognise that not only who was that system
just administrative way, a huge burden to pull off by
It also wasn't healthy for a girl somewhere in tanzania, kenya, india, nepal, wherever too,
why they so
tat to her. I don't
who would then no
about her.
but they don't know it's not right,
broke. All they don't know others personal
He tells about their donor and it
it's it's set up like this unhappy.
dependency its.
much more empowering an effective when a girl instead has those ties to her
tor in her programme and when we can
provide, are grass
partners with the flexible funding to strengthen the systems and the design of their programme, so that benefits more than just one grow at a time, but actually hundreds and thousands at a time
so that's definitely been. I think,
as the organization has evolved, we as leaders and me in my role- I definitely have noticed
a way of.
changing the way the way I approached the work and thinking what is most valuable for girls to get out of this experience and learning how to communicate that out.
To donors and wife ultimately find is that people are our
to support an organisation that has.
A progressive model and
one of our dreams- and I guess this put- leads us- ensure to writing impact
not just words,
towards our vision at she's, the first a world where girls can choose their own future,
Kristen. I also want to disrupt the philanthropy sector, but all and get nonprofit
and an donors, regardless of whether you are supporting she's, the first or other organizations, tend to think of
differently and when you approach organizations to come at it not from what you you know your good intentions and why? What you want and what you need, but rather what
Does the organization and want to its beneficiaries? Need I mean it?
two powerful sort of mega mission. On top of
the more focused mission. Oh she's, the first good thy project is supported by noon. So it's that time of the year, where a lot of oak start to think about their fitness schools getting their bodies moving myself included. I actually recently started playing a lot more attention to how I was fuelling my body and also really came to realize that I was carrying a lot of information in my body and potential disease risk in the form of way. So I wanted and intelligent and sustainable and supportive way to increase my health, lose the widen inflammation and just feel better and new is just a great solution for this one that I have turned to numerous times over the years to help me accomplish wellness and when it makes sense, wait management goals as well, so new uses science and personal is asia, and so you can not just intelligently manage wait for the long term, but also really learn from their psychology based approach that helps you build better habits and behaviour set are easier to maintain and the best part you decide how new fits into life, not the other way around, based on a sample of four thousand two hundred. Seventy two numerous ninety eight percent say new helps changed their habits and behaviors for good, and that is because new actually helps you understand the science behind your choices and why you have certain craving. So if you feel, like you, been lacking the knowledge to make the changes, you wanna see, try out new, so you can start making informed choices and start to really change the way that you think about weight, loss and wait. Management and wellbeing take the first step and sign up for your trial today at noon. Dot- com- that's an oh, oh, am dot com to sign up for your trial today or just click. The link in the show nuts
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I'm curious when you say you want to disrupt the the current model,
when I think about the vote that you ve written,
On the one hand, it could be written for people in
listing institutions to reconsider how they're doing things, but
We all know that, like many
this has been around for decades and to actually
break that model. The creative destruction require to remake it in the mode of something which is new and different. Is
kind of unbearable from most of the people who exist in those organisations show
if the disruption that you're looking for is to try and convince the existing ones to change or
Are you more focus on saying: hey, listen, a gambler
back in myself ten years ago and all the people
were coming out of high school now because we see activism taking a route so much earlier now the people were coming out of.
You people who may not even be going through any formal edge
asian, but our just moved to make meaning
And to organise that this is like hey,
Here's a road map, even if you're looking
these giant multi billion, dollar organizations and saying I want
the difference, but that doesn't feel right to me here is another way to approach a prisoner. I'm curious.
that was so like in your minds as you both worked on this yeah. I think for both
ass. When we set out to write impact, there is a
primary goal and the book, which is that you as an individual reader, pick it up, and it helps you to make sense of making an impact
It works you through how to do that. How to do it ethically things to consider this.
Get motivation. The more
Hidden motivation was the idea that we could equip,
An entire generation generations of people
with the knowledge they need to be better volunteers?
better donors
better leaders
better cs are exactly
That's right and to be able to plug into the ecosystem?
in ways that are going to have positive ripple effects across all of us at me and
There are some basic elements and things to think about that
If we, if we could spread of those messages, then even
if not reader never goes to start their own organisation or never goes on to run a huge foundation themselves. Their ability to interact with the world in these ways means
we can change how society views impact overtime.
And so that those are lessons like the differ
It's between your good intentions and your passion and your excitement and the actual impact of your action. It
bringing in not biased conversation and understanding that you may not always be the best place person to develop a solution. So
how'd you identify what you're strongest skills wave your unique gift is that you can do
to the world and that you can you
an offer and that you can create change were
You know it's safe.
It's really a manual not just to feel better about your own life in your own impact in it, but
As with the world and more,
once more ways. There
you write something like this. You. Obviously you have to have a certain amount of time in the game before he can reflect and say, ok,
have learned enough. I've accomplish enough. I've stumbled enough, and I have reflected enough to really understand
to write something that you feel can withstand the testing.
I'm an end is discreet and
About what
a yes to writing a book like this, also having you being a writer as well
generally- you say yes anywhere from twelve months to nearly three to five years in advance, which I'm assuming you said. This is not like hey, you know,
may have twenty twenty. Let's ride about sancho.
fascinated when
started working on this
before this year before twenty twenty nine
when he twenty heads and the book comes out in the fall of this year after so much just right.
For so many reasons globally,.
how does what's happened both within your own organisation and the organisations are women they use?
to be in services and also just those at you
to inspire the intention of the. But how is it evolved
the nature of what has
and this year. I'm really curious. Maybe tommy I'd love to hear your thoughts yeah. So we had a window of time monsieur while in quarantine to make revisions on the manuscript. We turned it in in january with a spring in our step thinking, you know it's going to be the best year ever we got it back,
in march, and we had a window of time to do revisions
and we found that, even with everything that was going on in two thousand and twenty, we actually didn't have to change the text very much, because what we had written the advice, the tools, the frameworks it it stood the test of time and if,
If anything, it was the chapter on resilience that we really were reminding ourselves of our own wisdom.
To speak
at a time when this crisis that she's the pherson on girls was stirring the spiral- and there was so much
it's anxiety in our own professional lives with she's the first and we
We're gonna reassured by our own words, which I always encourage people to do, is like look back on
comcast they might have died or advice journal entries that you re end because a lot of times we can remind ourselves of what we truly believe in that that's something that impact
book that I myself am turn to an practices
exercises anytime, I want to create impact in a new way.
that that's, how we hope it becomes a is
People shelves for a long time, because it is something that you
revisit all the time I dont believe anyone ever becomes an
sport and master in change making. It really is a product,
that challenges up to show up.
Rita and recommend to what we fight for
I love that frame is seeing change, making as a practice rather than outcome. Yeah there's there
no they're there
and as you mentioned, resilience is a huge part of that and something that you write about. You speak about and
especially this year, because I have to imagine even
the best of times there
is the opportunity for burn out. There is the opportunity for vicarious trauma when you are in service of organisations and and people who
enduring trauma on a daily basis, and that
following your own personal practices when you're this committed to something that is such a deeply held belief and mission and sense of purpose for you and theirs
out of struggle involved in it that developing your own practices to be ok,
to be resilient to whether constant struggle
Certain extent
I gotta be so critical to your ability, not just to sustain the organization, but just personally to be ok,
yet every morning and and be like this.
hard, but I'm ok, I'm christian churches work that the hayfield about that
yeah one of the concepts we talk about in the book when it comes to self care is the idea that self care is not actually about what makes you feel good in the moment.
it's what allows you to continue on and
something we evolved into practice this year.
So for me that includes making sure that I'm exercising, ideally, I get out of the apartment. At least once per day, I've been hiking
At least once a week for the last five weeks in a row in order to try and
balance out
Much of that negative energy that comes from sitting in one place, the stress of
running an international organisation during a global pandemic, the stress of launching a book in the middle of a global pandemic, there's a lot going on and I'm lucky
and I'm well and healthy, and my friends in my family so far are well and healthy and we are all facing different elements.
of this same struggle.
right now and it's
Important to focus on
not what is going to make. You feel good for thirty minutes, but what is
going to make it so that tomorrow, when you wake up you're able to get out of here,
so whether that is exercised, whether that is working on a new skill to keep yourself interested engaged or knowing that you
to make funding it's a line so that you know that you are a. Can you getting connecting with someone, you know it's
is often not the things that we want to do actually at the moment,
the things that we need to make time for, so that we can
feel ok later that day
and- and I know, I love that frame
that change, shifted from your indulgence to sustenance. Basically,
I know also that there can be. I have friends that had been aid workers in the field and really tough places and
there can sometimes also be when you think about devoting any energy any yearly
personal resources to taking care of yourself
that that also sometimes comes with a sense of guilt or shame.
you kind of feeling, but.
But no matter what I feel like I'm going through, like these other people here
who I'm in service of organizations have a quote so much worse. Who am I to?
kay time. Energy resources, anything taken care of myself and when you do there
be this sense of, like other, taking advantage
concerning stand your gun at it, like this sense of guilt, which I've had enough
friends struggle with that
something the wind
I deal with that,
is that I have a number of men.
These girls are now young women all around the world who have
expressed some version of that to me and
hearing from someone that you know to be worth
to make the lives of other people better hearing that kills
Someone who knew look up to who you know a day in and day out, is doing the work and deserves the break,
who you know, needs the brick or the ability to take care of themselves.
It lights a fire in you
think. What we all need to do is to give ourselves the same greece that we would
to our men, tea or our best friend or our partner.
when we see them working and working and working and not taken
care of themselves. We need to love ourselves just as much as we level
people who are most important to us
because the second that you start letting that guilt get to you
going to burn out.
and we're going to lose you and we can't afford to lose you. We are all working towards
our world, and
I need you by my side, so you have to take that time. I need you to take that time, so
You are in tip top fighting shape so that,
were able to create change so that you are able
who are towards something better. I love that
a good place for us to come full circle as well so hand this container of good life project. If I offer up the praise,
live a good life for each of you. What comes up? Maybe we'll start with me.
to live. A good life is to follow your northstar and tick
since every day that create the world you want to live in prison.
Political life is too.
Leave the world better.
you found it,
to know that the people that you too,
and the places that you touched are better because
you were there, however, briefly thank you. Both
thank you Jonathan,
the thank you so much for listening, and thanks also to our fantastic sponsors who helped make this show possible. You can check them out in the links we have included in today's show notes and while you're at it, if you've ever asked yourself. What should I do with my life? We have created a really cool online assessment that will help you discover the source code for the work that you're here to do. You can find it at sparc, a type dot com, that's s, p, a r K, e t y pe dot com or just click, the link in the show notes, and, of course, if you haven't already done so, be sure to click on the subscribe button in your listening app. So you never miss an episode and then share and share the love. If there's something that you've heard in this episode, that you would love to turn into a conversation, share it with people and have that conversation, because when ideas become conversations that lead to action, that's when real change takes hold, see you next time.
Transcript generated on 2023-06-18.