Who here oh and welcome to the five that politics by chance, I'm Galen Route, they're just fine days remaining in New York City is Merrill primaries and then nine New York listeners, you will surely never have to hear about New York. Again, of course, I'm kidding But, as I mentioned earlier this month, part of the reason we are covering this race is that it serves as a big test of ideas within the democratic Party. New York has lots of death and specifically lots of different styles of Democrats and a city choosing someone to solve a laundry list of challenges as it emerges from the pandemic. also, as we discussed further left Democrats have been struggling to breakthrough from much of the rays. Various moderate candidates have been dominating in the polls and we ve seen a similar dynamic player in some races beyond New York this year as well. Today, we're getting her from too

people involved in progressive movements in New York about their thoughts on what's happening in the rays. And how progress tourism is shaping politics more broadly. Here they today is political science, professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, Susan King she's, a member of the democratic socialist of Amerika and volunteered on Alexander Costume Cortez US congressional campaign in two thousand eighteen welcome. Susan High thinks having me. also with us is Ross BAR. Can a writer and columnist for the Socialists magazine Jacob been and the guardian, he ran for New York State Senate in two thousand eighteen and he's the author of the new book. The prince Andrew Cuomo Verona virus and the fall of New York welcome Ross. Thank you for having me very excited to be here awesome. So there plenty of details that I want to get into, but just to start off, would you agree with how I've described this waste that Prague cells, and the left in general have struggled to break through This may always

would say so you're right now. There are four Kennedy to exist in the top ten year and three of them. Have position themselves in some ways, as moderate said and of course is more complicated than even the so called moderate will have left positions to left of where the party was fifty years ago, and there have been it at different times to earth, the candidates position themselves in the progressive way. Right now, my wireless left, one standing she's, been endorsed by all Ginger Cassio Cortez and cheese the standard bearer because to the other candidates have faced difficulties. One was Scott Stringer who is accused of a sexual assault, and then another candidate them Rowels is never going to wind was gaining momentum. She added very strange campaign, implosion which is quite confusing to talk about today.

I think, generally speaking, it is barely moderate, tough on crime, pro developer pro business candidates, who have led in the polls and been included, that being said, it may not and that way on June. Twenty second, but as of now, that has been largely the case in the mere words I guess I agree with the idea that the self styled progressive candidates are necessarily breaking through no, whether nodded sphere- and I hear this long- the media- to call this an election that serves as some kind of litmus test, or state of affairs when it comes to progressive politics in New York City. For a couple of reasons. First of all, New York, in a crisis act differently. The New York City does in normal times to think about after nine eleven, we can't New York City, a republican city, but it elected republican mayor so were now in

post crisis situation to New York City, isn't sort of following its normal sort, a set of values and right now, there's been a lot of framing around public safety. But I don't even think that New York City necessarily is one at the grassroots level in which people are worried about public safety every day. I think people are worried much more about their basic needs house, being an jargon that kind of thing in the postcode recovery so interesting to me. The way that the framing of issues by both the media and the it's a sort of dominated the discussion in a way that I'm not seeing when I talked to voters on so I'm somebody who both talks about politics, but also volunteers and canvasses that sort of puts me in a unique position. I don't hear this one about the doors or I'm on phones, The other thing to is that I would argued that there really wasn't very much of a progressive candidate running in this race at all from the beginning. Scott singer. Someone who successfully position himself in that way, but didn't necessarily have that kind of thing. three as being more than for the centre left candidate. Damn right

was basically came from. Nowhere had no history of being involved and progressive movements at all in my wily, as well positioned herself. In that way, I've never however, before certainly I'm not. Some do. Does the insider baseball game of knowing whose in city hall, but I never heard of her before she Didn'T- we seek an endorsement from our union, the Pierre Security. So to me, she calls, the progressive and take those kinds of positions, but what I say we have a progressive candidate running like Giovanni Williams in the mayor's raised, I would say no, I would agree with Susan second point, which is that this field is not terribly strong field and there is not a strong left Kennedy at all as important to know what Susan knows, the democratic Social, America, I think wisely endorse no one in the trees, and so the three candidates were kind of the so called standard bears. The left all were flawed in different ways. All didn't really come out of. Left movements

all in all, were kind of trying to go online to inappropriate to extend these people move itself. There is never really that Kennedy and yet the truth of it- and I do think, had a different candied come along like Susan message remind Williams. The public advocate d, probably would have been a very strong candidate as a black man with a base in our boroughs also with the bees would like her grasses. He could probably built awaiting coolly Yo see yourself will never run from air as endeavour, and I don't think she well. She certainly would be a strong candidate for me right. There were possibilities, ten? It was never there that the candidate is not. There is only much you can do so, other than I want to unpack first, while just why not? Why doesn't the left have a strong candidate running in this big election from by understanding. There should have been work done in coalition to recruit a candidate, but that worked, it didn't happen perhaps

because the left in New York has been focused on state. Politics are such a long time. So I'm someone who is obsessed with empty Cuomo, and I share that with Russia He has done a lot to limit the possibility for Progressive Party, New York City, because the state actually controls quite a lot. So things like puny funding, emptier like the billiard taxes and rents and other kinds of housing will aid policy. So we were all focus in Albany and we successfully elected a number of dna. Backed and progressive candidates in two thousand and twenty and two thousand a team are getting rid of. Ivy sees actually how I met Ross and for those who are familiar with new politics that the independent democratic caucus that was essentially causing unworkable And so we were all focus on state politics for so long in twenty twenty. We are obsessed with getting all these progressive candidates because we had so much work to do at state level, so our focus was cut We ill placed. We didn't focus on municipal elections. Honestly, as somebody in twenty twenty is naive, pre covered my purse.

I do. I just assumed it was going to be. You know, Scott Stringer recent arrogance. I will see who wins rights. It would be like us and are less centre right there. but only for New York City perspectives cannons front against each other, we didn't see under gang sort of throwing his nobody status in a confusing things quite a lot. But I think that that, part of the reason why we don't do that strongly candidates. This has been a time of learning a lotta lessons and that's one of the lessons that we learned, which is that we should think about which we are all candidates from our own movements. My industries grew up in your city. Crap in Brooklyn still live there and had been covering politics really, since twenty twelve they serve as a local airport Mcqueen. So I seen candid twenty tens trajectory of this, and what I can say is that

asked is very young in New York City and it sounds odd to say that you think of New York City, like oh, my God in a progressive city, but when I started reign of politics and for a long time the left ways, Democrats and then sometimes the working families party and organise labour, would run kind of a left of Seneca against and establish a candy like I was it. There is no such thing as the USA. No such thing as these like activists, grassroots groups. It was really like working families party in their associated, like Ngos, and then the Democratic Party and eddies like our accounting machines. That was how it was done, pose twenty six in this radically changing the USA at the hands of members. You, you ve a ceasefire. Three Julia Salazar becomes a first year, say member in this state, Senate defeats and encampment. Then, twenty more ds members join the state legislature, so you really talking for a five year period I have said this on twitter and I'll say here:

the twenty twenty nine may always be much healthier. One four left this for us Socialists for even like left and centre people, because there is a big bang sets being built by. It's just been built. The minor leads for a kind of the South less and left wing of the Democratic Party. In New York City is a really strong as icons of prospects like new state senators Assembly, members will be new city com the members after this cycle, but they ve, just been elected, so takes time to run a mayors, raise its very expensive evil public matching funds. You got a real close, the ten million dollars- and you got me fundraising. Phrygia ahead of time. So but Susan said Scott Sugar versus Eric items that was kind of the logical assumption. Is they ve been raising money for years? I did get stringer not had his sexual assault allegation, which is never substantiated. We be Scott singer versus Eric Adams, Andrew Yang right now. Instead,

Garcia and wily- have come slipped into the vacuum that stringer laughed when he had a delegation I want to pick up on something that you said Susan, which is that New York City is in crisis and that its voting like a city in crisis and, of course, before Michael Bloomberg, was elected as a Republican in nine hundred and eleven Rudy Giuliani was a lie. a Republican during the nineties when there were high crime rates- and you said that this is kind of frame, from the media and candidates in pulling. We I do see that crime and public safety tops main concerns for voters Basically, every Paul about half of New Yorkers said that it should be a top priority for the next mare of New York City. and that's not New York specific anyway we're seeing rising crime rates around the country. so I'm wondering easy just difficult for the left to come in an environment where there are rising crime rates or the country feels like it's in a time of crisis like dealing with covert or the aftermath,

covert, and if that is a challenge for the left, how do you address it? How do you overcome that challenge? So This is an interesting question. That kind of demonstrates the limitations of pulling in my mind, because this is something Ross, as also type up before define poles badly, but then, if you are a break, with the fund is which is that New York's. He has like a really high, please, but its six or seven billion dollars a year, and we have. I have a net funding needs like social services like housing like youth employment if we took some of that money away from the police and put it towards a social services, would that be something you support? And then majority people in New York City do support it when you break down with you fun being so, I don't think that left and progressive policies are impossible to promote during pier of economic crisis during periods of other kinds of emergencies. I think what's been a fail, there is an attempt to discuss these in a more nuanced manner, which it was something I can do endorse the me I can do I catch him on the phone and the people are like. Oh,

like. I should hold a fellow parent recently. This thing about New York City these projects whose, like I know, Susan, you hey, police, I told him, would you know this and actual budget and he was actually shop? and he's a pretty high. Information motor? You know, he's swearing, he's like really Much so to me, there a misunderstanding of how to communicate these ideas effectively, whereas the media and people who have a lot of money and who well funded and want to support the police are able to get the message across, which is that near did. He feels dangerous and support our candidate. That's going to invest in the police. I don't think that then a means that people think that the police and please funding is the only way to deal with this public safety crisis. So you're saying that there isn't a concern amongst new Yorkers of crime and public safety and that its kind of deriving from the top down there are no. There is a concern and saying that people agreeing that what we should do is necessarily invest. further in Nypd or not cut

funding, is not something that has a consensus were shared understanding. I didn't People often just use tools. They haven't thought of them, which is increased, this funding or not increased police funding as the only solutions, because that will get pretend to them by? the media and by politicians, why Demurral is actually had quite a lot of soup she wasn't gonna win, but a lot of traction was that she was one of the few people who was talking about defending the police in a way that it The excited a lot of young people and other community sat stop that their needs are not being properly funded, were I think Denmark was mapped out in the pulling in the relatively low, single dangers, and I am looking port here from gives us showing that seventy two percent of New Yorkers said that the Nypd should put more officers on the streets so im wondering. Is it a challenge of, The left is not presenting this idea in a way that is palatable and emphasising the defined the police or abolish the police methods.

or is it truly just from the top down from Adam Adams from the press, etc? I just think that New Yorkers are really concerned about crime in safety, and I do think older voters in particular are very concerned about it because the remember high Prime New York City. That divide, like I'm too young, to remember high Prime Europe, but my parents do armies are people who avoided the subway for years. There is definitely cleavage generationally between those who remember the seventies and eighties and when these are invoked by candidates, people reflexively thank yes, more police. The truth is, I do think. Generally speaking, the idea putting more police and subways is a fairly pocket idea, whether its effective or not, we can debate that. I dont think its effective crime and shootings are an issue not really convince subway. Crime is a major issue, so I using crime. Public safety is a big issue and you think long people care about it. That being said, I do think left. Candied can win in this environment.

If there was a strong left handed running right now, that candy would be doing quite well. Yeah go back to Jumaane Williams, who is summer a lot about gun violence and he represented a part of Brooklyn that has been plagued by gun violence. Many years ago, he's been on time to squeeze her form check the fund is tricky right and Susan. I agree on the point that the brand doesn't poor. Well, when you break it down, it does better. I think the issue is in politics brand is often the thing that matters, because you have to speak in sound bite yet to speak in thirty seconds like Medicare. for all that get very nice ran sounds great. Give everyone how scared legalise same sex? Marriage we note means defined. Has this challenge where you have to break it down, and it means different things to different people. You ve abolish police faction, their people who say no, I dont mean defined, I mean get rid of

all police everywhere, and that is a position that will never be politically feasible, it'll never sell, and it will never succeed in any major american city. Ever frank, but you d, find it is a more nuanced point and people support police were formed. The Plaza one in twenty thirteen talking about reforming the practice of self interest. Dialing back the abuse this from the Bloomberg. Arab people are crying out for Bloomberg, Giuliani, style, policing at the same time, working class and poor communities dont want the disappearance of police, especially we went shootings rising with gang violence with this feeling that count This will be held accountable. You have friends who get shot and killed. You want the police to hold that person accountable. So it is a new wants thing. You got it.

Other elements of this New York city marrow raise that we should get into and of course, Susan you mentioned crisis, that's a huge part of our politics in America. Right now, another part of specifically New York City politics that doesn't apply elsewhere is build a blog building. Your ran ass, a progressive candidate back in two thousand and thirteen and he has not been particularly popular in the most recent efforts. Calling I see, has net approval as that negative ten. To what extent is this race somewhat backlash to build two bloggers tenure. I think those Ethan isn't a backlash. Partlet definitely is eight years of kindness Centre left mayor who is here. see does incompetent, though Europe morality was mixed, yet some like major policy successes that everyone universally celebrates its universal pre, Kay the candidates celebrated they want to build on and even that

so called moderate, wants to improve child care options for poor people for working class people, like that's a very popular idea, so one of his ideas are actually quite popular you're. The man himself. It's mixed, like his pulling on hers, are always pretty go to black voters and mix it with Tino's and then dismal with whites. Like both white moderates and white. Liberals are in this Auntie Deblasio Coalition of like hating him for different reasons. moderate think he's a radical marxist, the white liberals, her mad, that he seems goofy and they read them in your time to go right. I do you think, Hang it who wins this race. You will see the plaza and install John a minute and the call that right now, I think, if they ve Eric atoms and tickler winds and twenty twenty three or four or south, doubly people fighting. The clear centre left morality of gold, the Wazir. I agree. In many ways, Sir said that politics alma branding, though the boss use brand, is like frankly, a bit of a buffoon, but in fact, is really

didn't many things when it thinks it does it get credit for is actually opening the largest school district. During pandemic, that law, Other major cities were not. If you relatively successfully in relatively safely to both my kids, the school and San Francisco. All these other major cities were not able to do so so is able to negotiate the union's. He was able to negotiate with all these health concerns, he's a get credit and then actually quite a lot to help New York City get back on its feet. How a lot of people go back to work and universal. Three k is amazing, and despite the backing, he did that that's going to universal? Next year's, that's the end of a pandemic lotta thing, the Basel II has done. Have been great and I think that he has changed how we discuss what's important for our city, I feel deploys. You know Sancho right now, frankly, because twelve thirteen, was as Ross at a time when the left was very small in baby should week in New York City and he won handily with forty percent plus of the vote in a crowded primary which did not look like he was going to win. So

what difference between twenty twenty one and twenty thirteen We have more or less presence. We have more of an organised last. We have a lot more or less electoral victory. So that's why, when people trying to say the left us doing while in New York and twenty one, I'm just like you can't uses mayoral race as a litmus test for anything, because we have. more strength and political power and, as Raw said, that, you're right candidates, are defining what support to them. Based on what the left has put on the political agenda and that's very important to note, there many reasons. The moment is different and more challenges that I find one talk about and get your opinions on. When it comes to progressive politics, but first today's podcast is brought, you buy better help. Life is full of messrs, it doesn't matter who you are, your life is probably stressful. You may not be going down and out or depressed. But if your stress is high your temper, a shorter than usual revenue, starting to feel strain in any of your relationships. You could probably use the chance to unload better help is

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happening on their terms. Establishment Democrats have moved significantly to the west on a whole host of issues, even if they're, the ones who ultimate when but part of the way that it seems like they do. That is the kind of pick the last most popular possessions like higher taxes on the ridge, corporations raising the minimum wage and things like that and then loudly in rejecting the left's unpopular sounds like abolishing ice or decriminalizing crossing the border, defending the police. Things like that that we ve talked about and so I'm curious do see that as a challenge for the left. That establishment Democrats are do more popular ideas and dashing their unpopular ideas, whereas real left candidates in order to attract the dna and young progressive borders kind of have to be. straight down the line progressive, do just that. Good thing, that you are ok. It's fine of a thousand Democrats when on your ideas, or do you think that is a challenge that producers have to overcome That's a good question at the gets, also an issue of scale to rethink

the presidency that's a very different races, everything about congressional districts. We can have people like Alexandria, Cassio, core task. Now people like small Bowman, who had these really strong left positions are unable to introduce legislation that religion The conversation about certain things and there always changing what possible so a couple years ago, a bunch of left mutations supported something called public power in which the public utilities would be own. and democratically controlled. Now crazy idea, and then we have a series of terrible blackouts and then also deplores it was like. Maybe we should have public ownership of Conrad and then in this race. It's one of the major issues at all the mayoral candidates are discussing. So, if I'm correct even Eric Adams, open to the possibility again does make right candidate centre right handed orders, the bacon somebody who's influenced by left, and then you know recently, Jamal Bowman put forward a public power bill in Congress so

I see what you're saying about some being popular. Some are not, but having these left victories changes. What, popular and what's not popular, I dont see these things as existing in when it positions right so but just ass, it may the times a day about how climate change is like destroying the West Coast already with record temperatures and drought as Jim material conditions exist. Then polluting orientations to what seemed like radical and unthinkable policies are gonna, become increasing, popular and gain a winning coalition is support. So I guess think about what another good or bad I'm can continue plugging away for the things. I think that our communities absolutely need. One pointed people dare say meets view which is compelling it is what we're so moving the conversation policing that anything to an extent. That is true savings in terms of left isnt activists that you have to push ideas out, generally speaking, left economic ideas, always a safe that I think moderates in swing district should run on be mine

spending ideas like giving people money. The stimulus checks were like wildly popular Donald Trump, almost got elected present again because it gave people free money. Like everyone, conservatives moderates liberals what the social Safety NET expanded, willing, no one, unless really rich people or like really reactionary people, work pre small party electorate dont, want to see a bigger social safety net. The bite in child tax credits Republicans are ten. try. This can be made permanent because you won't be able to take it away. It's going to be super. Popular people are getting money Friday and kids like it'll, be great, so the left definitely needs like push these big ideas. On the economic side, there are ideas that I think there's debates over like immigration policing, but I think from the activists perspective you have to keep pushing. You must do that and then the politician you kind of half

to evaluate how you save an issue in framing a super important to go back to fund other issues, I think many care for all changed from single parents, Medicare fraught with great idea, not those birdie himself over came up with it. There was a great example of framing How varied in your beliefs and inner platform, can you be Andy Progressive for me? It's the class critique Rachel Justice. Politics are incredibly important. I think they're incredibly easy too procreate. You see major corporations like Nike, Amazon Walmart and so on and so forth to speak the language that doing anything speak the language its of Rachel Justice, and so I do think when you're looking for these candidates like what, if you don T, come for a movement description of capitalism is important and they really investment in building like a multiracial working class coalition,

these shared economic struggles. I do think that's very key. That's what distinguishes the left from the left, because the non left will save well, we'll get tired Firstly, trainings and get people will think differently and the corporations will be nice and that's it. An actual left candidates has no. You gotta go trying to organise these corporations. You have actually try you change. The economic structure that pushed back against predatory capitalism is very tee to defining a left candy. If you don't have that class critique, I dont think you really belong on the left for those persons and interesting challenge for progressive movements, the laughed in that area atoms who you describe the centre right form, a republican former police officer. You don't has secured most of the endorsement from labour unions across the city. Why isn't labour which the left was born out of supporting left candidates?

Organize labour is strong in New York, it's out strong, nationally, all but strong in New York. Labour in supporting comment or income it like candidates? They support candidates, they relationships with. They support candidates, they think you're going to went like myself had been in labour endorsement interviews. I think I know how they go and it's not like it say interview, whether that he knew and five really ceiling. Are you move in person? Like you share values, I mean they. Do you get a labour question? They do all that, but decisions are not me democratic leader made by leadership my opponent my raise gotten worse by the State teachers union I never got interviewed by They teachers in the night was certify public school teacher. I time public school. So a big challenge last Friday, I say is to be a bigger part of labour movement. Is to build coalitions, are labour. I think that's very, very important. I think at the same time yet to be clear, eyed recognise in

York and anywhere else for labour. The Indians have some strength. They're going to support incumbent like handed Injure Cuomo, has always been the candidate of labor it all of his raises. That's because he's the governor of New York City, he controls all the purse strings here, inordinately powerful. No Labour union is going to go against the politician who is setting wages of their members and enhances the fact and Eric Adams is an office for many years. He is a form of police. Captain is known to them. Is unknown quantity and if you'll probably win and they're not wrong. If I ran a giant municipal union, I would probably feel pressure to endorse Eric Adams. I mean this is a guy icing to go. She ate with the next eight years, potentially so that's just the reality of politics I say, has work in tandem with labour. The essays also worked against labored essays beat labour labour has worked with the USA, so these tensions will continue, but there's

fundamental reality that labour is going support. Incumbents were in common, like Kennedy Labour does not necessarily endorse. In the same way, into the council elections so that candidate I'm doing work on in the USA candidates. They support things like defined have strong positions that go against the kind of things that may be arrogant, port and their endorsed by lot of the same living, and so when I'm on the doors all mention this labour, so I was hungry somebody in Niger Houses- and I mention that my candidate was endorsed by labour and she want to know which union nice at eleven. I, ninety nine and she's, like I always vote would have looked. Ninety nine tells me because I'm a former member, so Organize labour has a different relationship in how it endorses executives, verse how it endorses legislatures legislative seats, so that can be interesting about this race is worrying to see a lot of left progressed. Victories at the City council and perhaps I have one of the most left progressive, see councils that the sea has had in many years, which

they reproduce this dynamic. That's a lie. were combative whatsoever. The next mayor is if it is in fact Eric atoms and then also everything to that. From my perspective, as What sector union member items as a former, please Captain probably accept public sector unions, away that somebody like other front runner, Andrea, Meda, you mentioned that one of the goals of the progressive left is to create a cross racial working class coalition and in New York. It seems like it's really. struggled to do that in more recent races. So this is a little bit of a preview, but here at five thirty eight, my colleague Anna it went through every single assembly district in the city and looked at how it voted in crowded primaries over the past five or so years, when, for example, Cynthia Nixon was challenging and requirements for Governor Zephyr teach our was running as well

and Sanders versus Clinton, etc. There's other reasons the pit moderates versus progressive and then also What of the assembly districts in terms of education and racial make and so on, and what we saw. Is that where progress is a really succeeding are actually in the places that we think of US elite circles within New York City? Actually Manhattan places like will his bag and green point in Brooklyn places like one island city in Queens places that are majority white and actually A majority of the population has a college degree that kind of air is the only place where, we saw has ever teach out when it's the only place where we saw Cynthia Nixon when we see that in many of the other parts of New York City that have larger numbers of voters of color our levels of four year degrees. We see talisman candidates overwhelmingly doing well, so how

The progressive movement breakthrough that eight one one hand have been critical left myself of not doing were to reach these working class low income treaties, this feeling of less education. I do think groups ideas we should be trying to go power out. Mister Yorke and Brownsville you're going deeper into queens. I think that's all very true. I hesitate with the world various Nixon commoners teach out splits because. It was such a nice symmetry. We have the worst campaign. Finance laws in America in New York. Andrew hormones as primary spent twenty seven million dollars at the next instant too. So you and establishing candy spending far more money is going to do well in lobbies district, like that's just a fact, there is never really a race of parity run ya, even Clinton vs Sanders in twenty. Sixteen. The Sanders campaign was not very strong and New York at all. Hillary Clinton had the support, like every institutional actor in

and she was so you ve had this asymmetry for a long time. I do. de, I say, is getting better at this. Its defiling treat idea says greatest. Successes have been in general, fine quarters the city, but you saw last year, for example, the state Senate. Victory of ivory sport, which spanned allowed different ideas, keep obliterated his opponent and one I think, the eighty of the assembly member that he was running against. I have to double check that big. He did pretty well in these more working class black area, so dear saved ocular, is very young, they're growing and really trying to reach out and you wore in these communities? I think yes, I mean when your first building, you have an easier time reaching educated voters It is the people who are online people who may be arc gloaming all these ideas. The left must do more to reach working class peace collar. One hundred percent I also think some these races that you look at the data there were in order

differences in the amount of money spent in the support candidates had inside it. That must be taken into account, so I will want to speak about Alexander Cassio Cortez. His victory in twenty eighteen, though, include. on communities like Astoria story, I live in Jackson Heights. She did very well and certain communities that were mostly lot next but a lot of it break down, as you suggested twenty eighteen from these Your turn out areas with more why populations and higher levels of education, but by twenty twenty in which she was unknown entity she'd been present the community by two years. You could see that her appeal was wide and across the board alone. The eighties and let all the tricks what she had done where Crowley had once a white Crowley had done better in system under the black community. Is it like Verona, she now dominated. So we saw a difference after ABC had been in. Beauty and then present for two years. So to me, it's about running candidates who have trust in the community,

and bring this message and ultimately like it's much easier for the ay and for other groups to win and race answer me her congressional or states in it or assembly raised, because our appeal is talking to voters at the door. I've got to talk to people, said well, you're the only person in this race to come and talk to me or called me, and so I may take this very seriously renovation. Tv and some he said to me on the phone yesterday, somebody in eastern queens, you ve You have done your job because you'd call me you texted me I've gone handwritten. Postcards got me where's right, so we have a field day that We have a message that works, but the mayor's race, governors raised, I mean one of things. I tell myself when I get firstly with military says that The mayor's race in New York has to appeal population that greater than a lot of european countries and loudly european countries have prime ministers, because there such a diversity of political mutations that it works better. To have many parties

can coalition to create a prime minister that appeals to this, and we don't have that in New York right. So we just have a mess, to be able to set up a field operation that would appeal to this very large. central loader pool, is something that we have done yet because Ross, as were young but We can win congressional districts, we can win state Senate districts and we can see how these victories are translating into other kinds of victories long way. So the last point I want to touch on here in terms of challenges that the left minded to overcome is that it seems like a lot of the energy. Around laughed candidates came after Donald Trump wasn't what did and voters basically said? Okay, so the establishment wasn't able to beat Donald Trump, and so there were some rejection of the establishment and moving left ideologically of just rank and file democratic voters. A lot of people who are getting involved in politics to try to elect people. You said that the lesson Of the New York marrow rays are probably only applicable,

New York and in many ways they are, but we have also seen in other primary around the country and, most recently, the Virginia House of delegates, some left candidates incumbents even lose their. Of course, use my time carve win the democratic path, May there again somewhat of an incumbency in cash advantage. Melanie, and very in New Mexico. Some curious: do you get the sense that post trump it is a challenge to get the energy behind left candidates. That was there. When tromp was an office in New York, I don't think so because on a local level, Did you say sleepy essays, hurrying six city, council campaigns and Susan can speak to this big up. Assault years. We even races. They might lose a great out the essays running, a very aggressive, tough, raise it in a part of queens. It's quite suburban, come eastern Queens is actually moderate orientation. The running very good candidate out there that has tons of volunteers more than any other camps, She's alive energies may not win, but the energies there and I think

in the city Council races worthy essays invested there. Is no shortage of volunteers or energy. That's all still there as the organization matures NASH sure, there's always a fall off in time, enthusiasm with the foil out of power from being gone, yet the casual vote the casual volunteer, maybe less motivate like that is the reality right. Undoubtedly, the trunk victory and embrace first campaign fuelled the rise of the left. I think that's an argument. Bernie Running Trump winning these two things together create this explosive energy demand. Rules haven't gone down, though, and while maybe the energy is a crackling, quite like it wasn't. Twenty seventeen, for example, There are a lot of volunteers her coming out these races and of the six City Council tendency essays running therein probably half of them. Maybe more may they want were four in the state legislature last year, which was something I think was on the hopes and dreams and many, but he knew city house,

Raises some member quite tough, and I think the ethical at least that five hundred in them and. even the wonder they lose. There will be a lot of people knocking on doors and making phone calls from a sociological respective. What the things that the Trump presidency did was it made people, including myself, think are you going. About the local politics and so That's now something that's part: people's identities, even if Trump is alone so it's like oh its primary season. I want to do a lot of work ranch you tv is now something people think that something that I do. Politics has become a huge part of what was identities and that's not go away. Other reason: why don't you What is the die down, even if, as we see some victories for moderates in other parts of the country, which I don't pay too much attention you become so focused on New York right now, is that lot of the social problems that motivated a Trump victory and motivate people to cover the socialists. They have not been solved sure

we all love to see. I didn't pushing forth these big, ambitious tax and spend kind of bills like we truly love to see it, but we have we're poverty and we have more inequality and with a lot of these social problems that still exist right. So one of the things as approval scientists that I'm curious about is that link for democracy is at an all time low and overcome about democracy. We have to address this quality and that one of the things that political scientists take as one of our like unwritten rules that you can have democracy that sustained itself with high inequality, so until we solve these problems, the left still needed, because they are the only ones that propose solutions that artists people in jail- and you know cage all the immigrants coming it. We are proposing solutions that are Moving beyond this in a way that recognize people shared humanity, and that is something that appeals to a lot of people. Unfortunately, it appeals to a lot of young people who don't vote because as the poles have shown a lot of them to think voting is very important. So there's a big road,

the bus and finally, the Democratic Party, if illicit once a loose spectacularly in twenty twenty two ass, recognise importance that the left wing, brace so for better or for worse recharge alike. Here about timing. Different challenges facing the laughed within the Democratic Party, whether or not its positions have majority support, and a lot of Accommodate, has focused on the future Rossi, so check back in twenty twenty nine and see who is doing well in the New York City mayor all raised. Then Susan, you focused on young people who don't vote, but perhaps, as people get older, they do vote. So when do you think that the last will be viable, in big general elections like the new marrow raised, but also in state wide races for governor, were Senate, or maybe even the presidential election. Presumably that's a long term goal for the left. I'll give you the scenario casting our sea. It becomes a mayor and governs is kind of like a technocratic, moderate

I think it is right for primary. I think it's in the hearts of primary Eric and under the black mare, given you really he to do well in the Black Sea region will Tina Treaty to win a primary keeping very tough to primary. But if it capping RCA one, you could probably run a viable challenge again, sir. The left to bear in New York is growing lot Jamal Bowman's another person one just last year, Jamal Boom in the skies kind, the limit for him he be great state. While Kennedy Keys, progressive he's black he's dynamic, he represents part of New York City. Jamal Bowman can move to New York City run for mayor. If you ve, all Bowman, like literally Craven Lee, to New York City Kinetic Eleven Westchester till I can run for mayor and twenty twenty one he might be winning. I got black former principle whose, like Super progressive, like very compellingly, it's a great mayoral Kennedy. That's a great gubernatorial Kennedy, Mondeo Jones done a person kind of on the left, just one in Congress,

he profiles a great state. Why candidate and of course, Ios Eve? I said before I got a lot of people angry last year I said she could force till a branch retire and take the Senate, see people How dare you said it occurs and your brand chuck simmer he's a man, Jacobi trucks, human, a primary by persons, your brain. Has a very weak standing in New York state. You see now the Senate campaign and like a year to four mouth, I didn't kill bran run at your own peril. They're gonna be a tough one for her. So there's a lot of people working on the bench I do think could end up a governor one day could an end up a mayor one day. I think that time is coming, probably in it We twenties, certainly in the twenty four. What I'm here and you say, is basically not now, but within two years unequally here for me, is an open male race and twenty twenty nine absolutely Elsie for seven twenty four, I think is doable she wants to do. It sounded like him off

Someone like Mr Jones Carling waiting for their big reasoning. If it's there don't take it. So there will be opportunities of politics along its luck and timing. But the benches there now the bench wasn't there for a decade the bench is not been built now it'll be times these candidates have fun rays and to really bill those because, wishing to go when signing it's coming soon, like I said, if you like a white, moderate kind of weak mayor that could be primary in four years, so stated for that as well. never enough Chamati Williams. Another person who could be successful, state like candidate and also not to to ass. His horn, too much debauchery Bridgeport is someone who could probably succeeded in a few years to runs on wage avare was a mayor of New York City in ten to fifteen years, and I wouldn't be surprised yeah. Maybe we have the talent, we need infrastructure, but that's the thing.

the media matters, as well as the message in the left, isn't how great mediums running for later this year- and you know, with full respect to all the work and expertise that the people who can operate himself. Is progressive candidates have done in the past. That is just clear to all of us, which is why people asking The time how I feel about the measures announced can like sigh before all began. This came out, and so this has been a lacklustre race of not Exe We leave talented candidates across the board, which is why, the front runners having moving around and therefore like I said, not a litmus test for much of anything, except for what happens in a crowded mayoral race during a pandemic. when you institute brain choices, for the first time, you have a lot of like middling political towns running that are to get right. You get something like that's, not really clear. So I'm gonna go I can say that the only thing that's

the test is how well the board of elections able to implement a very significant voting reform during a pandemic, which we should mention. People will have to hold your horses because we may not know the result of this election for a long time. but just put it by non it. Can you give me a centre? When do you agree with Russia's timeline? When you see the left really competing seriously in democratic politics or like someone drivers for I'm totally creating a future and burnt president twenty twenty nine run for mayor eight year from there, and you just be taking the Eric atoms at the morality of TB like charismatic and compelling and really exciting, also isn't. It leaves a lot to pass on my friends or on actually ran my speech and a campaign is down state assembly thereon. Things were Mayor himself has so many these, like charismatic, compelling people who just got into office, who, I think in the next ten to twenty years, are just going to be in position to win municipal com. yes, I agree but like if you money, lymphoid reforge governor against ETA Cuomo, then yeah I can do that.

It could be very competitive and, despite foremost huge fundraising advantage, he's quite weak. Not me have to resign. Unfortunately, those of us you dont like Andrew Cuomo, we're hoping that is animals would be sufficient, but you know he really is digging in his heels, but I think he's weakened so the very interesting thing to see to what extent that he faces primary challenges or, if you just I dont to run again and then is an open race. Who knows, I think, Cuomo Candy beaten primary either black envy, you have to run a black need to win in New York City to my wings would be good to shame attorney general, not off the left. Light Jahmani is what is someone who I think could be calm on a primary. She would not be a victory for like DS, a left at all or part of Central F

moderate rendition, but Germany Tisch they can potentially be Cuomo you're at the rate of time and money. Camping finance laws are renders, but the path to beating him is winning blacks and will Tito's in New York City and a charismatic compelling black Kennedy with routes in areas, can cut a path. Ranger polar saw was a related to what you write about going back to the numbers that my colleague Nathaniel rage, crunched, the only progressive left candidate to win city wide over the time period that we looked at was Giovanni Williams, and it was because he one both the elite. Whites of Manhattan and the parts of Queens and Brooklyn that are involved in the movement that Bernie Sanders started and

much more moderate lack voters in the outer brows. So that seems to be the challenge for the progressive and we will see if they overcome it. But let's leave it. Therefore, now so thank you, Susan Canon LAW, sparking. Thank you. My name is Galen droop Clare, better Guy Curtis is on audio editing, should also in the control room along with our internal mri. We and in Stevens, is on video editing. You can get in touch. My email address a pipe cast aside. The exact com. You can also persuaded us with any questions or comments. Fearful of the show leaves a rating or review in the Papa can store or tells them went about us thanks for listening, and we will see

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