Who hello and welcome to this debate reaction edition of the five thirty eight politics podcast, I'm due drink. It was a big debate. Literally there were twelve people stage and it lasted three hours. It also forced the reporting leaders to confront important developments in their campaigns. Warren differ. Her newly minted position as front runner Biden responding to trumps attacks on Ukraine and Sanders addressing his health posed hearted. So how did role play out and did anyone outside of that top three tier break through here with me to discuss our editor in chief mate, Silver Hague Galen, enjoy that debate. I thought was interesting debate, congratulations to the Boston nationals being nationally representing the World Series, And also here with us is managing editor, make a common area Hulu and

Germany has remotely is Senor politics. Redder clam alone has again yell and tat are so chemist we're going through, maybe quaintly those three main developments facing the top three candidates, so Elizabeth Warren. This was her first debate as arguably these, on or maybe co front runner. How did that pan out for her? It was was very different from and being a promoter. She got farmer talk time than anyone else. She took a lot, incoming fire, including from candidates such as mere peat and club char, who had been relatively congenial and kind of meek in previous debates, and I think it too difficult an to evaluate, I know it's was a cop, I kind of went to see kind. I want to see what pulsate about it about her performance. You no kind of I thought that her answers on health care exe You seem a bit evasive and not that great. I thought she mostly held up fairly

otherwise, I think sometimes where's merely see that you're the centre of attention, a kind of sends a subliminal message to vote, hey. Maybe you are the front runner. A lot alot of Democrats come in liking, worn in the first place in our pulling with Ipsos. She had, I believe, the highest. Net favorability rating. I think I may have had higher favourable, but she had the lowest in writing. I believe, and the best net in September come in kind of wanting to think that debate Well for worn, and so if we spend ambiguous and am I kind of creative- come out fine for every day if one of the front runners and you dont totally screw up. Then then usually wines up? Ok, ok, proposition for you. Claire. What did you make of how Warren an old, her first debate as that front runner? Well, you know

think it was certainly a different dynamic for her. I think she suffered in some ways from having a couple of people attacking her and Moderate moderators will let you kind of answer. If your name has been mentioned in someone's statement, but here being mentioned so much that she sort of by virtue of the number of responses being lobby did her lobbed at her didn't really get to respond to. Everyone I think war and being at the centre stage, was actually in some ways a good thing for Biden. You know he was one person who looking at the end of the night, I thought well He wasn't didn't get as much speaking time, but he also and have as much time to mess up or say. Something kind of blunder ie and yes, he had to address over the Ukraine stuff, but in some ways Bs Biden wasn't treated as the front runner by the other candidates or even in some instances, the moderators, but Warren,

you know she was taking incoming fire to use the over use, metaphor and Biden, which is kind of like protein, not gaining any supporters, but not hurting himself, so yeah it. It was kind of hard for to tell. I have the same general thoughts that night and clarity in the same instinct that, like a kind of animal, just wait to see what the poles say, No, I'm always impressed by worn in these debates she just really quick on our feet. Rhetorically. There was just one moment, for instance, where Buddha Judge sort of attacks her. Explicitly or implicitly, I cannot remember as I always wanting to fight and right away Warren turns out too. We know people struggling to pay healthcare or fighting right, and she, just like rhetorically rhetorical invested in the debate. She just really good. On those grounds. She also had that moment in the exchange with Biden toward the end, where abiden Wait, I think, was binds worse moment. The debate was

you know I kind of did that for you, it is kind of patronising right in Vienna. Frankly, I think kind of verges into kind of a little gender sexist territory, but she kind of pointedly several. I appreciate President Obama's yeah right, but then she didn't quite with Not even that show like a lot of of discretion, restraint yeah, and I think that showed a certain maturity right and she didn't like it into pointless fights rights for example, when Harris, if my twitter, for you know that I think the notion that the President of the United States and left deep, let form from put her, is stupid idea saw it coming Harris by also thought she shall Restrained therein like saying this as such, idea dear. She say that by like, and I can even like she didn't you gonna wait my hand and say you know, you're looking so, go ahead and and waste when in a few moments you get actually say it. I'm Harrison's exchange so like so she's playing along game, Clearly there is nothing that happened to you

Beth Warren that will greatly injure her chance it. I overall agree with that problem. Ray and, unlike you guys, I wants you to pull numbers, but I have been thinking a lot about how Warren plays in the General right like an that's, not a lot of people can can kind of say like well, is the elect ability argument about gender or race and like yes, it is, is the straight up answer, but also I'm I'm cute. About warrants policy ideas on health care and how they play voters and the one place where I think, potentially she could have made some people could have given some voters. A second thought, particularly frankly, and institutes oh hi, or was consular Michigan where people Democrats are kind of thinking about voting starts quickly, even if they agree with Warren, and I wonder if the sharp attacks by

outta, judge and call Bashar in particular could stick with Warren. This is another person, I'm not sure how his performance will have played with voters. Castro was was nipped in the bud or when he went after Biden but binary. A liked Canada by lot of voters- and you know I think, in a period when, after a Rourke or work, isn't very popular, put a judge. After Warren too and and I'm just I'm sort of sure how that all plays out. I do have a sense that the voters, Our concerns in some ways about her left positions on health care and whether or not they will freak people out to that point. The other campaigns seem clearly convinced, They are trying to get warrant to say. I'm gonna have raise taxes on the middle class to get to pay for my health care plan, warm refuses to say right,

the other campaigns are clearly convinced that a vulnerability for her they keep bringing it up. They brought up in previous debate that really went after her in this debate. For it I guess I'm just I'm sure that voters are really gonna like that that voters paint close attention and, like you know, maybe the general election liability as clear said, but I don't know what was in it: a real vulnerability for common Harris, for example, in the second debate where, before which she released her healthcare plan that was kind of somewhere in between the General Sanders Medicare for all and the Biden, let's double down Obama care and it made her kind of look silly and unable to like pinned down her position. I don't think we know, I think me be that had a role in Harris's decline, but one warrants just been a lot more adept at at responding to it in she's been a lot more at not answer registered yeah. I mean it's boldly, not answering yeah, but that's politics right is like you. Try to maintain these vague stances emanate. I feel, like we're overlooked,

one important dynamic, which, frankly national didn't I still occur the debate itself, but is more occurring in the background which is tonight there Zat Bernie Can we reduce by will be endorsed by a sea and two other members of the squad receded frame and economic and Johan Omar? And if you kind of follow Some comments that Bernie has made an Bernie has been kind of gentle ungracious. In these comments it hasn't been like super vicious or anything. But also we can read like a lot of the debate. Only online left. You have seen rapid of Warren Verses, Sanders tensions, you have seen them go after another. There is no Hungary ceasefire so to speak after centres as heart attack and I think having these quite prominent, and fairly popular but quite locally anti,

I we Democrats get by bernie- is gonna kind of further blow up the anti establishment slashed left nexus of. Like and he were burning versus war and conflict and a kind of one COS for war and is: could she get squeeze? by on the one hand, Bernie having a little bit of revitalization on the left. And then on the other side of it people, in the moderate lane or a little too concerned about about issue too far, left anyway, maybe if Buddha, church or but char rise there, starting to kind of people off a few voters who drift from bite in the world are not that many those I dunno but like. I do think this kind of question of data sure currently committed to warrant they dug in their dug, in that she does not much to worry about. She has to be by nurses who surges right at their knocked again and if Bernie can back, I thought he had a good night. A few percentage point on the left.

Becomes more interesting and she has to decide whether hey am I going to fight for sport in the left behind. Can see them go. There's some of it Just to her saying you know what ok a lie, a general election voters, don't like the squire. I will at the Squire endorse name and kind of subliminally were not so solemnly kind of some. Message to voters at like he is the one who and I establishment worry required and poor Democrats look can the one who normal liberal Democrats like a night thank you. Now. It's really interesting dynamically. Anything any more interesting than Clare. You ve been tracking, like left politics over the past few years, and what do you make of the endorsement. To be honest, I was a little surprised. By a Aussies endorsement, if only because it

there was a lot of. There is a lot of momentum by war in the polls. It seems like you know if he is willing to work with policy, is willing to play nice with more. Establishment democrats in a war and as a woman I thought maybe that might be tilting her in her favour, so its interest to me that she is supporting Sanders, although obviously not totally out of the realm of the expected. I think it's interesting. That IONA Presley hasn't come out yet endorsed mean. Maybe she who knows. Obviously there in war and are from the same states you know who knows if she's gonna come out and endorse war into them couple days who knows it? Burns gonna come out and she's gonna come out and endorse Bernie. Who knows there is I think, some sense from people who are, I think, but basically there's like a cat split in some ways between people who on the left, who have remained

or hard core Bernie, an item to boil down to like war and how gotten a lot of those Clinton voters, those more maybe college, educated well off, Craddock voters, who supported Clinton the primary but perhaps have some buyers rat or say, Yanks headed, unlike Bernie, but maybe he was doing something right and I think, like a, see and ill Hon, Omar and Rashid to leave really pride themselves on having working class roots right and representing those communities and burning. Andrews. I think, still does in many ways speak more Viscerally to those communities than say Elizabeth Warren, you know no a war zone, background of being pretty working class so. There's just sort of this interesting class, I'm in play within the left that I think We're seeing with these these three women endorsing Sanders. We have a lot to talk about in this debate

cabin. Maybe the topic of these endorsing come up again when we talk about standards, but let's move on to bite and for right now, but had to address the issue of president trumpet? I can him on Ukraine, his son Hunter Biden, suggesting that you know the role he played was inappropriate. So what was tact going. I mean it wasn't a big topic during the debate, but how did he addressed that I thought for such a predictable question? His answer was somewhat garbled, but it basically game came down to listen. That's not the real issue. This year is Trump, but I tend not to think actually who have much of an issue with this in the democratic primary. I think almost all voters will be. Predisposed to view it away biting laid out, which is that the real question is about what my son did it's about. What trumpeted, but still I you know, I just thought it. I would actually put bide ends

sort of non polished responses to a lot of these questions in the same bucket as war ends refusal to sort of gives specifics on her plan to pay for health care. In that a lie, People like every time. I see biding, give one of those rambling answers. I I I think. Oh that's! That's not gonna play well, but ass a really her. I don't think it's her too much so far. I don't know. Maybe it has so it sort of just like away a wait and see approach yeah. I knew I think you have to adjust a little bit. If you can't know following the debate on line onto errors, we do that, like Democrats on Twitter are not the biggest Joe Biden, fans have to break it to people. You know it's like a lot. I felt like we have like a lilies Biden debates with the exception of the first one where he was like I think quite battle. Even then that man was constantly on the debate right, this kind of thing of like by now, he's holding up

pretty well on any as some moment where the end. You know that was last week but like phone, have to record briars right this time. I think the kind of final change with centres and more in, but this time I think kind of came the negative parts but came furthest into the debate and where the least obviously bad luck I might intuition is like, like we said earlier, like. I don't think that a change of oil will play that great. But I don't remember you know the lowest for his scatter hang on like a twenty eight percent of voters at like him now right right, obviously, no longer you have to win some presented, a seventy percent who dont have yours. I dont have him as their first choice right now But but I don't know I mean I think, given that, like he knew the queen, we're coming on Trump in Ukraine, it got thought it could have been a bit more forceful. I thought he was mostly pretty good on the foreign policy sections. You know. I think it helped him not be having these long exchanges and stuff like that. But let's dive into the let's dive into the bite in Warren, because not only without a striking moment where, where behind

it was like, but by cunning yelling at war and saying I got you boats and theirs The consumer Financial Protection Bureau issue yeah. I thought that was one several moments where bite in. I would almost that one of the binding campaign strategies going into tonight was hey, look for a couple moments be really really forceful. I don't know what that was in, maybe it maybe it was about questions about age, but biding did it in his. I think it was his using statement here now got up. Yet where is like? You know it was like almost yelling, but anyway, I don't know about that. In general or the yet said, or the worn exchanged in particular Clare did you. You thought that was an odd exchange. Right. I didn't think it was odd so much as a almost naked play of their dislike for each other, worn and binding. Known each other for a very long time and have always been been within the demo.

Party kind of ideologically opposed to each other, and I think throwin to that. The fact that he was kind of trying to get in his whole, like Master of the Senate thing you know, I went in there and got votes for you and she who was trying to say thanks Obama, no thanks Biden, and I think that you know we talked earlier about. MIKE. I think said earlier that she was very disciplined in that moment and she certainly was, I think disciplined is the correct word You know. I think there were several I that is to say it was gendered because I think, ascension can often just play is like condescension. Nothing more, but there were a couple times when I the moderates one asked when, after Warren and coming from binding Buddha A couple of the moments were a little bit. You could categorize them. As you know, withering.

The point of awkward. You know to watch it unfold, but Warren is is disciplined, and response and sort of wanted to say the right thing, which is I like Obama, I will not see my ground that Joe Biden made my baby of an agency happen. You could just kind of sea was a little bit of like a cold smoulder on her part. This debate more than any debate we have had so far. I feel least confident in my appraisal of sort of how voters will react to it may be the safest assumptions they won't react at all. That's been savers. Options are far more or less interesting that several of the candidates sort of said. We ve had this discussion time and again right. They were, I mean, and you almost like they were sort of. Speaking to the voters saying like yes, we understand that your irritated that we're having the same discussions for three hours in front of you again and again

and it mostly seem to come over their fight about health care and you suck or Corey Booker. To be the cheese guy This doesn't look good that were fighting amongst each other, can't we all be a little nicer, an ice, and it's just there was. There was a certain like her steer we'll quality to all of it, where four hours after the start time or whatever time it is. We are we're all kind of like well for us the right moment. What we're not consumer of this, though, like most people right, we ve watched every minute. Of every debate and yet are, Let's move on and talk next about how Sanders responded to questions about his age, post, heart attack and I'm going to get into some other broader questions. But first today's podcast is brought to buy zip recruiter, hiring can be a slow process. Here's an example,

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I thought I'd there I'll. I thought he had a good debate. Really good debate. I think it was burning strongest before it's a hour in my country when the better distillation to Bernie we ve seen, including in any of the twenty eight. Sixteen debates, you Know- and he doesn't feel well calibrate. As far as picking the right, levels of aggression, It can differently, increase the volume on his voice little. I thought that was mostly funding towards it had kind of feeling, Little bit more. Like burn talking about billionaires. I do think that lie, are sometimes when Warren seems more empathetic. I thought the way kind of to answer the question about pay basely, you wanna be punitive two billion errors and he's like well yeah and she's like no. We just pay their fair share because it takes a village. I do think it. More effective in the long run by party was did quite well for himself. I happened to not think that one of the stronger moments was like the literal question about age, a kind of

by saying. Well we're gonna, big rallying Queenstown turns out going be ruled YO see and perhaps other endorsements You know voters are concerned about the age and health of of Bernie even and more so Bernie after the heart attack, The media ink seems reluctant to press for fun. Option stuff like that, and I thinking really kind of addressed ACT directly devoted she might actually be concerned about it, but but I also am not sure like what what he's to say- and here I know where my like my biased, shine through cause I'd be in favour. Constitutional amendment saying that you should not be able to run for the term for president or first term, if your the age of seventy five, just like you can't, if you're under thirty five, and so that's my biased, I taken away, not Americans freedoms. What but

by the same reaction to you that I thought his explicit answer on health and age like it wasn't bad, but it just wasn't very, very memorable, but I tend to think in this goes back to what we were talking about last week, that it's actually be implicit stuff, just how he, how he looked on it's how he sounded on stage that matters more, and I would not be surprised at all if you know those polls that ask how concerned you're about to interpose age or health, if we start to see Bernice numbers sort of like revert back to where Biden is. In other words, if you start to see that a card attack bouts fade bright aid a bit as a reminder. It was forty. Three percent of democratic voters said they thought. Bernie Sanders was too old. It was twenty eight percent Biden and four percent always above warrant twenty ape ignorant if it, if its twenty eight percent fur Bernie rather than forty three percent. That's a big improvement. It maybe is still a problem, but but

I think, as numbers will improve on that front anyway, Biden addressed or was he said that he was gonna put out a bunch of information about his health? I don't know that's meaningful to people, but item, to contrast himself with Trump clear. What did you make of how that interaction went down and kind of how Bernice come on? I think there are questions going into this debate of like is he we do? How do we describe it valedictory? What do they answer? The heart, an old plant. Oh, I don't really think I ever had new question about how Bernie Sanders would act on the lid debates did, which is just how we did right, which is like I'm still here. I want to win this. I was gonna ask if we if, like who the closest analogue in electoral history is, you sanders- says election time heart attack, would it be Dick Cheney Bill Bradley, have heart condition in two thousand. I dont think you pair I mean Dick Cheney is piloted literally the closest, but I dont think

VP yeah. I don't think you can. George W Bush had questions about his health when he was running for his second term in nineteen. Eighty to remember, there isn't like passing out such vomiting in Japan. Yeah. I guess it's like you know. It's funny thing aware I mean, I think it makes it makes voters uncomfortable, especially if their sanders supporters, because makes you a just addressed the idea of mortality in general. You know that this person that you can admire could be dead or incapacitated in the span of, forty eight years is sort of a dark thought. So maybe this is getting like. I don't know what it is, but, like Maybe he gets a bounced back, because people have some his supporters will kind of say like you seem fine and wrote you dont want to address the idea that, like while he had a heart attack, smaller or sort of you know assent procedures very regular, but very typical for a person,

his age? I just find it to be sort of this really odd mixture of sir Europe has a very particular kind of base. That kind of would love the come back from a heart attack. Underdog story, no one. I think that clear. I think that extends beyond this base like actually, I think it it makes him sympathetic right. You gonna wanna routes for for someone who has overcome our problem, it also frankly, though, just psych to be really crass about it puts like a frog. Spin on a candidate who has been essentially running the same campaign? Fir wood like five six years right? Ok, Are you sure it's good news, her Bernie Sanders when the media narrative is he had a heart attack but now he seems, fine, but living like having other countries are alive all apply here, we're not sure we're not here, and I'm telling you. I guess, I'm just saying that I would I'll, be surprised if,

Voters are more sympathetic to Sanders his message. He had a good debate, maybe they're more open to it but also that the media is more sympathetic to Santa should like if Sanders did have a good debate and get a couple good Paul duchess and her at you know two or three points up from way aware from where was before. I just wanna be surprised. It's like it's in ITALY. One thing: I dont think that the media will be sympathetic to Sanders, though I mean I think you already saw people. Writing of irritating stories right after the heart sit incident before we knew it was a heart attack. They didn't let that press talked to his doctors. Writer he still hasn't released is updated. You no medical history. I just have a hard time seeing media in general giving Sanders a pass on this girl, I'm just saying like, it's kind of like when the FBI announce at o actually

Hilary e mail server is fine. You know people still her f B. I couldn t mail, I wonder about that and I asked think actually Sanders was treated until we generally by the press about the heart attack like what would have happened. Abiden no yeah but like, but like Mythology it will not come back story, I think, between tonight the rally and maybe most importantly, the three these endorsements- that he got he's curly, sending a message like don't give up on me. Which is where something so, maybe a few of the people who migrate away from Sanders the war. I a yang or something in the past couple weeks will come back. Maybe a off kind of further downward movement. I still think the kind of fundamental critique of centres applies, which is that right I started getting quite figured out how to, he'll beyond kind of core fifteen percent, which is not just like lead. But also anti establishment left. Squad endorsements. Are

on brand they're, not they're, not stretching into New type of indoor show that you might not have expected another question have is like, will work now say trust kind of mainstream members of the laughed right we'll they he'd come ACCA, she has not had any endorsements either was so that's the thing is I owe you, you brought up the idea earlier name of Warren getting squeezed and something Perry Bay. In one of our writers- and I have been talking about- is the fact that if you look at our endorsement tracker, Warren for someone who has been steadily climbing, the pause has picked up. A surprising with few number of endorsements like very, very few and so I'd I may be there, fighting their time, I do wonder little Biddeth. Worn, is not quite so acceptable to the establishment, as may be. Some of us thought just because we were concerned the sand, but to pick some names at random, but I wonder if I could Tammy Baldwin is a centre in Wisconsin

Patty Marine Washington right some of the more liberal female member. Do you wonder they'll be alone little more pressure on her and again we are kind of believers that endorse matter, although it's kind of weird, because usually the endorsements are like the sign of what the most is doing so I quite sure how we're supposed to kind of, A party decides figuration configuration gonna, think about like how does an anti establishment endorsement figure in a yeah. Well, we also just don't know like to what extent the endorsements are. Signal averse cause or whatever yeah. You know. We're but it's blaming so far what its role as the party has plundered and not making a decision yet totally that's the main thing: they have not made a decision or show it's getting late here by, let's spend our final moments on the candidates who were not in the top three. So first as wrong, broad question our former colleague and friend,

Harry Enten crunch some numbers before this debate and said something along the lines of looking at history. Since one thousand nine hundred and seventy two there's a fifteen percent chance, approximately of the person who to win. The democratic nomination is not Biden, Warren or Sanders teams about right. That's right. So if there's that fifteen percent chance, who is it did we learn anything from tonight's debate about who that could be? So if it, if its not Biden, worn or sanders, I would pick mere PETE because he can of like almost like mean PETE appeared on, form anything about british as a shot. Obviously in my book, was her, a new phase for Buddha judge. It was kind of like almost like mean appeared on stage right a little bit more holds barred. And I think you can you can

directly chalk that up to the Iowa focus that his campaign has. He sees Warren as the biggest threat and in some ways he's trying to crowd Biden out of his moderate lane and that's a pretty good tactic because by his camp is on the record as up we don't have the Iowa or even New Hampshire, necessarily we're gonna start you know that's a South Carolina Buddha judges, team, might be seeing that saying, fine, let's, let's take all, voters in Iowa and Paint Elizabeth war- as too far left to get elected with midwestern Democrats and, let's go to town- to me. I mean that it was In some ways like demarcation from of how a different modes. Judge can be in. I think he was much more aggressive and much less Vienna, nice New could on the back right? It was almost kind of him saying

we seriously my pull numbers I urge you to do so, and I am willing to play hardball and not be deferential to these, to be no big well now, people on the party. Yes God moved, I think, because he has now like overtaken Harrison the poor, Just the way was set up right. I was actually like in often the frame of the shot of the top for candidates out of twelve cause. It's even so I guess you actually did like take advantage of that small, and she has ever over Harrison. Recent polls and like kind of literally look, like he's more centred, he's pretty good these debates, he has a fair amount of money. He has applause half an hour. I dont know if you can, solid enough for the party to wean after I were. I dont know how he would withstand a period where he face a lot of stuff me about about him. Experience right. It is like you know it's late. It's gonna Nate like telling

I get it as I do think like made on red ball telling it like needs after hours, Do they get a lie? Ran like hey. You are were mare of aid, medium to small sized town and in Vienna, and when we present the United States- and you think, there's like a round of scrutiny, but you can imagine like Buddha, cherry picking, the right time, and so, if you're giving me like, if you give me, ten per cent to spend in view of six, a ban on british catcher, something oh, I might be more than that. I mean here he is in double digit anymore, in an average of Iowa Paul's, basically in double digit in an average of New Hampshire Postman, he's he's doing way better there than anywhere else, but most of its borders but how can I have a great night on Tuesday night till I know you know, maybe Buddha Judge solidifies his place as the fourth Canada. I do think.

It is right that it'll be really interested watch. It did feel like this was a different strategy by british judge. Tonight. Does that does that play how does that play poorly Ivan means? No idea. I mean Harris like what she got. No, like four percent, will initiate an r c p. I don't know man, I know four percent is an ally. But if I were weren't or premature biting or anyone at five point. Two percent in r c b ivy if a five point, two percent- and so can I pick off a pointer value, because she was not very present in the debate. I thought your answer on actually start was really good. And maybe we could have gotten longer, I kind of probing the county tomorrow and what their patient strategy would have been enough like that right, it's of about and George W Bush at the end I'm not asking by the way about China and in

there are more if climate and eight or climate change seemed like China, and climate change will be to really interesting things. Ask about as we ran up here, any other people of note to a lot that fifteen percent to Clare the short uncharitable answer is no you're. Not really you know Us Tom'S dire, he got on stage in more fun tie by its it did this does not of its now I dont think twelve people deserve to that stage. You now I think it is at that point where, maybe six or seven, but certainly twelve, and I think that a lot of those people kind of bore it out maybe call Bashar bade them. Some valiant efforts to sort of she spoke a lot, a tonne

dear. She kind of made a valiant effort to be spunky midwestern, moderate pilot. I. Have a hard time seeing the validity of so many people being up their yeah. And we may declares point start to see some winnowing soon. Some the fund raising numbers also show people I mean who leaned Castro. Did he do anything in this debate? He also there were. There were four people on that stage who have not yet made. Then Amber debate and that's really on Castro Amy Club, which are totally a and better work. Yeah I don't know of any of those. Four people made their case for why they should be on the staging a rubber, no one else: you, some of the fundraising numbers coming in, don't look great for some of those people and show them come spending more than their taking in. So I think I think, there's right that you, the next. And certainly the one after that. I think maybe I was sorry to see smaller and smaller field, or I will lead

leave things there. Thank you name. Thank you. Galen they declare thanks guys and thanks mega You, my name is Galen drink. Tony chow is in the control room. You can get in touch great YE mailing us at pod cats, at five, thirty, eight dot com. You can also, of course, tweeted us with any questions or common, if your fan of the show leave us a rating or review in the Apple podcast store tell someone about us thanks for listen. And we'll see you soon, her.