some guy, welcome- Commentary magazine podcast today is Monday October 14th, two thousand and nineteen John Podhoretz. The editor Terry Magazine, these seventy eight year old monthly of intellectual analysis, political probity of cultural criticism from a conservative per se should we invite you to join us, a commentary magazine dot com, where we give you a few free reason asking to subscribe, one thousand nine hundred and ninety five for a what do we call it digital subscription. Digital subscription, that's correct and twenty spanning five for an all, access subscription include, are beautiful monthly magazine in your mailbox eleven times here we are closing the November issue today it is

full of wonders. We have an important piece by our own returning, no Rossman Sociedad high. Now I dont tell us a little bit about your piece out. While It is a defense of Capitalism under assault now from the progressive left and the nationalist right, both of whom, have attacked it for a variety of reasons, advantage inequality allowing inequality to fester, mature and environmental degradation and an assault on the sole, and a sickly saying the capitalism. Does everything better than any of your prescriptions and addresses your problems in a less morally complicating manner. So paisley, it's Noah versus the tag team of Tucker Carlson Elizabeth Warren. Christine. You also have a piece in the November issue issue what I am trying to care

dissect, the legal decision of the judge who wrote in favor Harvard University when it was when it was a sued for discrimination by asian american students is a case. A lot of us have been following lots of affirmative action implications. It will likely, if not this case than one like it, will eventually get to the Supreme Court. There out of complicated different? I love legal questions, but there's a this overarching moral question about. Where, as a country, we are with affirmative action when it's very clear that one of the most elite Institute the country is using. It is or to set quotas and discriminate against one particular group asian american students, in this case, on the basis of race, our own secretory Greenwald has a book review. What did I do? I have book Review of Douglas Murray's, the madness of crowds, which is a fantastic book. I'm all about identity politics,

why they exist as they do why they Making us crazy and Marie goes into sort of each central identity group and gets at the contradictions behind the entire movement, I was thrilled to see that one of my favorite writers in the World Clive James. I am an interview with guardian or the independent, or something said that he also loved worries the madness of proud and James. Doesn't

Spencer, Venturian tips are naked world politics of that was an exciting thing to see. I will send an editor's letter, I'm not entirely sure what it's about yet so far, it's it's kind of about this meme. This trump me maybe we'll talk about that was shown at this Trump favorable conference that showed Trump murdering hundreds of people, including John Mccain and Maxine Waters, and the CNA, Embassy ABC interesting thing, and now we have to some fantastic were Bruce Bauer on this whole notion of the global citizen, Joe Joseph Jaffe, on on that are our own Joan of arc.

Grass sunburn. That's right am I related Michael Madmen, ism right, Michael mad VAT on the jewish roots of the american Founding and just a lot of other stuff. It's it's. It's a really great issue and we will be on line tomorrow. Some time, probably in the afternoon, are observed

are meeting Tuesday, the 15th or maybe Wednesday, the 16th in the morning. I'm not I'm, not I'm not sure anyway. So, let's get to the meat of the moment, there's so much. Who knows what to say so? Basically, I don't know why it should be surprising because, of course when- that the offensive by Turkey against the Kurds open up almost immediately and in the end, Something is a sort of every kind of shocked, although if you think about it, had to move fast, because otherwise, what were they

for they want the element of supreme on the wealth of overwhelming force. You want to serve, sees territory, push them back and you need to do that instantly. None the less. I think the everybody in the west seems to be shocked and kind of a stunned by the celebrity with which the Turks have moved and in which these sort of the anti ISIS position of this coalition between the United States

coalition was the United States and the Kurds on securing the area and keeping ices neutralize to simply collapsed in the space of forty eight hours, or something like that. So, that's that that's the set up of the situation and an, but also the remarkably fast on the Kurds seem to have now formed an alliance with the syrian government and in response to the Turks. If, if it is a lie and not just a meme, It's obviously chaos and- and we don't know exactly what the situation is on the ground either thousands of ISIS fighters have simply been you know so, the way from jails or they haven't? Or you know, we've apparently taken custody of exactly to ISIS fighters, which is really great. Both british citizens, apparently, who went to fight with ISIS

and then we had the spectacle yesterday of our Secretary of Defense, going on It's the nation- and you know really he's very upset about this at enough. You no matter what he thinks. It's bad. It's bad mark, esper, whom I remember two decades ago, being being sort of like add, fuller searching for staff at the Heritage foundation. He's now that Secretary of Defence and he's very he's. You know what the current with the Turks are doing it. It's not good. I just want you to know that, like this is not a good thing and we're there set about it. Meanwhile, the president goes on twitter and says any crazy thing that comes into his head that to fix the thing you said two hours ago about how I need to be fighting, we did fight, we won it doesn't matter. If we want it doesn't matter for winning it doesn't matter. We won already. They

They didn't fight with us, a dead Normandy out, you know whatever it is it comes into. Is that while I will say this because he makes all these claims about, you know no more forever wars for all. People out there who have been. Going on and on about ending the forever wars. This this is part of what it like when you, when you end the for ever wars when you and when the? U S, gets out. These things do happen. Yeah MIKE S for said that it was a day. Would the Kurds would have to align with aside and Russia in ran. That's just the nature of things not seems like that's policy. That appears to be american policy to sacrifices allies to an american adversary, and we scripture of what has taken place on the ground. Here is open rather antiseptic. It is solutely horrific. It is a crime against humanity. What is going on in northern Syria, the images the

stories. The videos that we ve seen of civilians being executed in the streets by turkish proxies have been really jarring. The president, this morning in a what may be the most bizarre foreign policy tweet of his presidency now claims that the Kurds have betrayed us. So, if he's also saying that they're releasing ISIS in order to get her attention or something, forces are actively supporting our withdrawal because, based on reports that we've seen a bunch of different kurdish factions and the Safari syrian Army, which is this collect. Hodgepodge collection of untrustworthy proxy militants you are harassing Americans attacking can soldiers and civilians alike and we're trying

are there, even as the Kurds that some Kurds are run, are still still helping us on the ground. If, if I saw the troops move into Mombi, excuse me, I will make sure that our Treasury Department imposes sanctions on Russia and Sdf. They will be the greatest sanctions the world has ever seen. The Kurds betrayed us in the first opportunity they get. We will not forget this hashtag burns incredible insult to anybody, even tangentially, familiar with their history of America, abandoning Kurds the rise up and pretend pursue our national interest in Iraq and Syria and then facing them in the most convenient opportunities kind. You say that you know, as people know, commentary twenty, sixteen, a that's a trump skeptical publicly we don't endorse. Candidates were about profit,

and that has remained in some ways. I'm like a lot of other publications on the right, a bit. Someone at arm's length from from from Trump and people who are Supporters of ours and readers of ours have the question why we know why don't you That's like he's great ideas, really did the cat tax cut he's great on judges, all the all the stuff that that we here and then simple fact of the matter is that this? This is why that's not to say that the anticipated that he was going to stab the Kurds in the back in this way and end. Julie, Ann Emery, Jim Mattis said yesterday, former secretary of Defense and and basically arivify

it's a spy by ending our conflict with them, with ten thousand fighters now pretty free to go wander back in and kick off yet again, since the Kurds have literally no incentive to pull them anymore or any way to hold them anymore with any any protection. It is this quality of of Trump put some this this bizarre. I would call it a historical, but you could even call it antique historical wear, anything that he that happened before he became president was either wrong or something that he doesn't need to bother to know anything about and day that you know that the January 20th, two thousand and seventeen was day one of the it, and so everything that happens happens based on. He was handed a whole bunch of things and he does deals with them as he deals with them, and you know,

elementary common sense and wisdom. About how the world works is history teaches us things in our relations with different countries, teach us things and the experience that we have had over the last fifteen years, a lot of it. Bloody and sad and and and disappointing from you know, you not prospectively, might say, has taught us things about how we should act in twenty eight in twenty nineteen. None of that is present in in in trumps head in terms, brain and terms, conscious. And so The notion that you know Is it impossible to throw your hand in with him say because six hours after you do so he will do something that betrays your very deepest convictions about what America should. He. What the presidency should be like how things should work. You know,

including this sum. This move I would say last week at the rally in Minnesota from being sore You know Don Rickles to Becoming SAM Kinison, or I don't know, no I'd a bill, Hicks ORB, you know one ardour Andrew Dice play this or move into kind of semi, pornographic. Comedy now is comedy and in our trump mimicking the sexual relations between Peter struck. LISA Page is not intended to be a dramatic rendering of their relationship, but is intended to amuse his in setting? Yet there is this thing where you could say: no man at the present stage. Do that's how it's not it's. It's not a close call, Madam president, may I say should not do this and yes it how will have effects on the children and the culture and everything like that that is

not that his mocking of that of those emails. You know I think place. Deep paranoia about the deep state among his is most staunch allies, but it is also a piece of Texas, foreign policy, because he's completely manichean right he's a thin skinned narcissist, obviously by personality, but he's manichean, so is easy for him to turn around and condemn the Kurds is traitors to him when six weeks ago, that that would not have been the case. So I think that it's that manichean way of approach foreign policy that also he flatters authoritarians, because he sees in himself that same you. No respect for Orson power in and no need for. New wants nuances for the week in trumps, minded seem so sciences are always going to be suspect because they involve compromised partnerships are always going to be suspects because they have to be negotiated, which means he might have to give up something. He doesn't want to it's. Why we, even in his negotiations, whether its trade policy, foreign policy, domestic policy, even after

Giving something up he claims he hasn't his part of his manichean worldview and there's an dynamic here and I'm right about this for the websites you can read it in more detail later listener that pursuit of what he perceived to be a strong foreign policy makes him look weak, and this is probably the biggest political threat to him. Two emanating from this move is he doesn't get the fig leaf of withdrawal because he was not withdrawing Turkish for is fired on american soldiers of apparently deliberately according to commanders, and they have they prompted speedier withdrawal. He's threatening me, sanctions which have never changed the behavior of any international actor in are going to be coming to slowly in order to even effect that kind of change if it was possible- and this is of a piece but how he's conducted foreign policy generally in twenty nineteen? is negotiations with the DPRK, which continues to produce nuclear weapons and gets rewarded for it.

Taliban, even after they're killing american soldiers, using to retaliate after it ran struck in can drone advocating a strike approving a strike and then blinking at the very last minute. It is the opposite of strength that is profound weakness. And it seems like this- is one of those moments. That's gonna be clarifying for people whose see this kind of bluster performance and performance on his part, s strength that the actions the risk. Also. This policy end up being weak, Americans are perceived to be hostile towards broader engagement abroad, right and extroverted foreign policy. They want humbler fallen policy. Will this is what you get you get humbled and I don't they,

Erica's actually appreciate. That is the right term, because of course, he also prides himself on being a hardheaded, cold, eyed realist, who doesn't you know, pump for a round with highfalutin concepts like the blood or free them or be know, what's good and what's bad, what's good as what's nice to him with bad, maybe that's the mannequin part. You know it's it's good if you're nice, diamonds, bad, if you're mean to him, but there is an element of this which is yeah yeah, I'm willing to make the tough calls to end the forever wars it would be easy to just stay in. You know northern Syria with a thousand people in Djibouti stay there, but that's the tough call is to pull them out. That's the tough call. The tough call in Afghanistan is not to pursue entropy forever, but

but too, but it, but you know, really change the dynamic on the ground and make them take responsibility for themselves. Labile blown adds another method. The Trump presidency is that it is not realistic, is extremely it illogical. Why were you a weird way, though, because it is the ideologies in the ideologies of what I mean, what what is the? What is the idea that is being generally? America? First is an isolationist streaks. That is the other kind with the similar approach to non interventionism in the battle of four four per arbour, except, as has been pointed out since Trump Green lighted and airlines attack and Syria, will we have up dart troop strength in Saudi Arabia yeah, but that bet that ok, so that now, that is also a form of weakness, because if you were an actual realist, he would go to war to defend resources right That's, like your realism. It's just absolute cold.

Resource preservation, So that's an ideological turn not to retaliate against, ran for the for the attacks on those saudi oil to say nothing of the assault on the shipping in the in the strait of Hormuz, but this is also out sourcing american foreign policy to a foreign capital in the design here is to deter around, which is undeterred, obviously, by the presence of american troops in either side of Arabia or Iraq. But it is the foreign policy is being at source to Riyadh and Baghdad and who or of a multi China, as he says, Chinese can patrol the straight from those if they want to. It is all withdrawal, but what it? What did he say? He said this is fantastic, as the Saudis are are paying us to put our troops there. There there there painless, that's mercenary, that's turning the United States armed forces into a mercenary force that is rent it out by a buyer. You now TIM Pod oil disasters,

I mean that is. That is a very strange and yet, and yet you can understand why he said it. You can understand who who's on whose ear that I mean at least there you know we're not suckers, you know, seminar guys over them in the salaries are gonna pay through. The nose were now get ahead of us there yeah. So I think that is the central oddity of of trains, just listen terms of strength and weakness, and that we should talk a little bit about the Democrats because of course we can sit here and say, while you're at the right hand, withdraw blah blah all that

in autumn, at least is the politics of its aid seminar. At least it's you know, there's a deserved choice, but they'll be a choice between two two possible that will face people, and the Democratic Party seems intent to some of us on making sure that doesn't win that it loses the election that loses the election that he Even the hearing that reason that he's trying to lose, You know that he might might might be losing by behaving this way right, soak and that get gets to what happened last week at the well CNN Town Hall, on Lgbtq rights, in particular two remarks when I better work and one by Elizabeth, worn Christine you wanna, sure- that's so sensitive ball start with

Elizabeth Warren, so she was asked how an act algebraic you act of his asked her how she would respond if a voter said you know, I'm old fashioned. My fate says marriages only between one man and one woman, so here of course is an opportunity for her to show some empathy for half the country that doesn't share her views or for people of faith who who are struggling to you know contain their views, while living in that largely secular culture, but instead she decides to basically drop as everyone was praising her for the media, a terrific singer, I'm going to assume a guy is asking this and I'm going to say then just marry only one woman, that's fine! Then she says, assuming you can find one when He heard that I just about. I just I mean the first thing I thought is it to her Hillary's Deplorables moment right

even on her own side, people are kind of like hello, it's a Deplorables moment, and you know what it is it was. It was completely unnecessary. She also avoid dealing with this, this extremely serious culture war question of how in our society. We we reconcile policy in lawmaking with faithful views and how we allow our don't allow people to opt out of participating in things that their faith requires them to avoid their there's. A million interesting nuanced ways to Take on that question and for someone who has a policy idea for you know every single thing she comes across. I thought it was not. Only opportunity, but a deeply offensive remark and also look just mean in keeping with that It's actually a remarkably trompe kind of exactly contemptuous of voters. She needs to win the nomination Democratic Party's coalition, is hostile towards gay marriage.

Large and african Americans are African American, primarily churchgoers. So I looked this up. The data and gallop suggests that the people who are most hostile to gay marriage, who are who are not support were supporters of traditional marriage and do not support the contention. The gay marriages is equal. Our church or people who attend church once a week, which is a which is a smaller number than it was twenty years ago without question. It is however, still three in ten people now you're running for president, I understand you want to appeal to your base in your party, particularly if you're in a hard one contest but yeah? This is a way of you know: winning losing the general by winning the primary, erratically only in this case maybe a way of losing the primary by losing Harry, because the voters of cheap most struggling to reach is the african american voter.

To be the progressive set of the Democratic Party who were moving the Democratic Party left and the space of a cycle have become the moderate centre of the democratic will because they were moving. The party left on issues of a specific issue of race and then on issues of economic justice, let's, and now we have all these other issues, which are the issues of the white elites, global warming, anti fracking jobs that are alive, both politics and social radicalism, pronouns, whatever you want to call it is the supporting architecture. Behind the you now serve social liberalism whose greatest triumph for the last twenty five years has been the legalization of of constitutional evasion of gay marriage, and then we have,

but gave moving still further, where you are supposed to therefore do not have the same single sex bathrooms you were. You were supposed to believe that gender is fluid you're supposed to be but people can choose their pronouns all of that stuff, all of which remains is a kind of will, because a daily reminder to people who might have moved beyond who don't support gay marriage, but can move beyond it to focus on others that imposing social left on America, is a key element of the democratic parties focus now. And what do you do even though you're not talk about voters in the case of African Americans were going to go, turn turn over and vote for Trump. General they'll just stay home, I mean they'll just that they will not be in spite they. It will be a kind of bizarre repeat of twenty Steen, where Hillary Clinton, who actually had won the

Craig Primary, because she was vastly more appealing to african american voters than Bernie Sanders was lost. Their affection between the time of the primary in the time of the general, particularly in the upper northwestward where they, where they stayed home. Yet the puzzle of Elizabeth warrants sooner Liberal Massachusetts, Democrat now it's been now. It certainly been made clear to white men who are a block she's pseudo gonna least need some of in a general election. If she Windsor primary that you know she I got a machine that DD it was just the contempt in her voice. If anyone has an article that is issued contemptuous, she likes and fight as long as they do. What she tell what she says. It's right. Can you think of something more Alvin icing to get you out for tromp by them

it should also be understood that the moment was so perfect in instant structure, that it was almost certainly a setup. I mean I don't think anyone's done this story, but there's no way that guy stood up in the audience and ask that you go through that slow softball across the plate for her with her for having this prepared line and the prepared seconds singer. It didn't just Kurds, are off the top of her head. This was a prepared moment that happens at at particularly a town halls, where it's very easy to populate the town hall with people who are on your side, and she wanted to say this. Somebody in her office came up with this bit and they thought was hilarious and it would really really go viral and it did. But the long tail of a virality is not good for her. It may have been good, for you know, winning the support of every liberal reporter who were just on twitter worth falling all over themselves with delight and Wonderment

glories of Elizabeth Warren and like Something trump will be Talkin about a year from now It would be irresponsible not to the CNN town halls, all of them, the race, environment guns, LGBT issues are a of the existence of pervasive liberal bias and media, because there is no such no phenomenon would put a current republican side and be extraordinarily damaging to everyone has participated. That's my problem. Gentle says today in the Wall Street Journal, he says Donald Trump should be paying for these town halls like all they're doing is supplying him with father. It is is an amazing thing. I mean so the whole point about the Lgbtq Hall is that none of them disagrees on anything right, which is the most dangerous places possibly and when everyone is it's just a race to our bidding.

Other right in the if to secure the affections of that is already a fashion towards you the friendly audience. It is the most dangerous phenomenon dangerous environment you can be in and all of them a participated in every one of them. I don't know what they get out of it and then so then, the setting up and I don't get air totally mistaken. He monsieur one, I think, but they give airtime and Sanders didn't pretend which which we should discuss, but before area, something no Kate limp before we discuss that. I need to talk to you guys about Harry shave. Of course I took Harrison's morning so I'm, and particularly good condition, to point out to you that humans and shaming for thousands of years and the secret to a great shape change much. The ancient Greeks didn't need flex. Balls are heated handles, and neither do you that's why Harry's doesn't overcharging had gimmickry features to their razors. They Ok, I'm delivering what actually matter sharp, durable blades of a fair price, and I use it, I got to say

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shave gel with aloe to keep your skin hydrated on the travel blade cover to keep your razor drying easy to grab on the go, but a Harrys dot com commentary to start shaving better. Today, So we didn't get to better works moment. Witches. Jubilee. More damaging to the party is a whole, even though he is the candidate that you know two percent. Who will, I guess at the next town hall, you know announce that all conservatives should we put in re education camps. I mean this is where going first he's gonna, take your guns that then he says he is going to take away, which is whether the less we religious tax exemption for religious institutions if they don't support gay marriage, which of course, aside from being you know, an assault on free speech. Salt on two elements: Maybe three, if you consider assembly part of this

of the first amendment. David took the first memory lit a match to it on stage in order to do what to appeal, to whom it's not clear to me, although I think by saying we should remove tax exemptions from religious organizations that don't support going to liberal values. He is, in fact reflecting deeply held consensus. Few, among The left, which now believes that it should you stay power in whatever way can too you know to impede the my honour. Shut up. I mean she is performing a service. The though census. Take on the right is that he was being created, a lab to advance republican talking points about Democrats, but he really is just exposing the extent to which the republican caricature of Democrats was always true.

The war has toughen up my tactfully really want, while I mean so next it'll be wet like mandatory bilingual education in schools or just something consults. What have you ever? Cultural conservatory monster imagination is what he'll come up with. But if Trump represents a kind of a caricature of of conserve, then it stands to reason in the trump age we would get caricatures of liberalism. Like you know, Elizabeth Warren's policy proposals. Which are not going to cleanse policy proposals, except they cost seven a trillion dollars, but it's also better, is better also has the ignorant is distant, displays a kind of ignorance too, because did he not? I mean that the his proposal would also There is a lot of mosques and african american Turkey can really be confirmed. As much did I get well he's not give it. I mean so Galaxy is going to provide an exemption for Mossman african american churches. I don't even know what it is he's going for

was more up this point about advancing his personal brand beyond twenty, twenty or so outside of twenty twenty. Then he is focused on winning. What I do, I think, focused on women, because there is little right away that he's gonna win nobody just like Britney spears before she went nuts and shaved her head that, like it's a little dangerous for the Democrats, to have him in front of cameras for too much longer. But you know that these these town halls the cartoon knows toilet. It's like the Democrats are playing a game of of chicken with each other and theirs and who can you know who will bail out Last and they're, like you getting very close to the edge there, their they're going over the cliff and Democrats will be quick to say. Well, you know, look it's just bado he's pulling at two percent right, but then his gun confiscation proposal made it into a slightly more smart and the couch word couch for prepared statement from Joe Biden, basically advocating the exact same thing, saying to me: create a national gun registry, and you haven't, got a mandatory buyback and all this stuff was Beethoven

proposal so it's not like it's not having an effect on the democratic field. Also, we have to say that There is the serb race right. There's this race to kind of the extremes in in in in the democratic field, and the race extremes now takes the form of this, of media white assault on Biden, and if it goes like this aside, combined being old, which is not has nothing to do with this part, kiting he's hiding. He doesn't he doesn't he doesn't. He doesn't speak as much. He doesn't come out as much. Their hiding him talk about issues that he doesn't want to be. You know reveal that whatever weaknesses, he hasn't talked about issues and Hunter and the Ukraine all that stuff. All of this has the form of misunderstanding or being a kind of assault on what buy trying to do as a candidate? Which again is not you know they can do this or not do this, but it is a mark of

Leah Bias and liberal bias in general, which is that he is trying to run for president by not engaging the leftist passions of his party that much he he doesn't want to offend but he doesn't want to run as they're Tribune and so is result he bumpers, and you know he he doesn't want to attack the left, He doesn't want to attack and he doesn't criticize anybody else. He is trying to run as a kind of consensus candidate, which is how he comes across as a moderate, even though you know what, if he given what he said so far, he won? The nomination he'd still be the most liberal person ever to terms of policy positions ever to win the Democrats nation from Presidency- farmer, liberal them than a bomb was an eight or twelve, so

The interesting thing is that there is a candidate who is trying not to be that guy who run, who is Yuno, try who's, trying to outbid everybody else and he's being attacked for it. Now, that's fine You know this is their game. They can play it, however, they want to, but has to be understood that if the Democrats ditch Biden and it's not just because they think he's incapable of being the nominee or running against but because they don't they decide that he's. Eighty illogically impure or something like that the media and leftist advocates we be the ones who will be responsible for having pushed the party into a position where they may get Trumpery elected having get out and also haven't given no oxygen to the other candidates in the race were theoretically more moderate like Klobuchar, and I don't know Bennett and

in the end and who knows like none of them seems particularly moderate to me, but obviously compared to warn and Sanders and Castro, oh by the way, there is a great moment ass, an l parity of the of the eligibility Hugh Debate, Town Hall, where limb angle, Miranda played Cleon Castro and firstly, came at me, said: first lie just one: apologize is the Democrat for being straight, and then he said, but you know I am. I am latino so that that's got to count for something right, which I thought was pretty good, yes, a wholly and Castro also like what did he say said you know we should basically pay tat american countries billions of dollars. So you know to keep them from coming, our borders. Whatever was I mean how everyone slice it so what

roll. So at some point you know this this pushing pushing pushing pushing the Democratic Party to the left Trump is eminently beatable and they're making it there. You know it's going to be a very close call. The way things look right now close now is. It couldn't be cleared up, like you have to assume it's gonna be close, rational, to assume it's gonna be close, but whoever wins. It's hard to say, because Trump has had such an awful run recently that it it just doesn't it doesn't feel that that that closed in the open Ok, you know that this is an interesting other topic them, but we can do so the counter assault on the you know March toward impeachment, which is started. This is aside from Hunter Biden. You know

investigating Trump encouraging Ukraine to look into hunger. Biden is good because it makes him an anti corruption activist. That's what that's one thing which people I would say: don't seem entirely eager to take up because it doesn't really. But what we know about him. There are other aspects of it and the big one which I think has gotten some purchase, are these procedural once having to do with simple only letter and other things where it's like Why are you having these interviews and secret? Why aren't you with a? Why isn't? Why aren't the hearings public You know you're doing impeachment secret cuz. You can't handle that you're not being not having a plus he's, not calling a vote of the full house on the impeachment, as she doesn't want to force, we will do it. So it's illegitimate. What he's doing and therefore the white houses with gentlemanly refusing to cooperate, memory way shape or form to people did. Is this working I mean is

counter assault. Does it have legs? Is it going to? Is it going to the only way that I think it may be working so far, and it's in the long term is as a tactic to sort of run out the clock, in other words, if the, if the widest can keep obfuscating and stalling and throwing up roadblocks and sort of new new cycles that disrupt. March, the closer and closer we get to twenty slash, twenty, the more it will be like. Well, we we we, we we, we have an election. You know right around the corner. What's the point of love of impeachment, I mean the function of these secret hearings and depositions sort of counters the the Mueller

insofar as we had this series of revelations over the course of whatever it was eighteen months. Nineteen months involving corruption, associates of Donald Trump and these russian work Patients are working on behalf of the term campaign and dull, sorted dribbled out endemic when it when the final report was released, democratic system cells, man will wouldn't it a different story, a different outlook had all of this come out at once, and we have one big narrative of all this coming out at once, and if the articles of impeachment include testimony and deposition from Saint Linden, whoever else has testified, Fiona Hill Etc. All of which point to a particular narrative, that's easily digested. Then it reverses that effect and could be included

really have a powerful impact on the national consciousness. We'll trumpery suits? You know, expertise it obvious geisha should never be underestimated. Is now accusing Congress of doing the same, but their lot that there's no, they are violating net and no constitutional principle. By conducting the inquiry and the way they see fit. That's that's. Our system works. Well. A way of looking at it- is that you know, fifteen diversities are going to this saucer dry to me was throwing stuff in To have discretion whether or not there was a quid pro quo in Sunland

European Union, who is the hotelier from Seattle, trumps, personal emissary, apparently in this Ukraine matter is gonna testify this week that he only said there was no quid pro quo cost from told him. There was no quid pro quo. He has no independent knowledge that there was no quid pro quo, but the quid pro quo itself has shifted, and this is My question to you guys, so the quid pro quo was doing this for me or you're, not getting our military aid. So do you know do this or you know actual policy is towards. You is going to be affected, including your military position- visa v Russia in this effort to keep your country from being swallowed up by by by Putin. Now it appears that the quid pro quo is this for me and you'll get a meeting in the oval office. It

seems to me that one is vastly more serious than the other that it is, but I doubt and some understanding that one has been for closed upon, simply don't know whether it's the case or not. What no, if someone went to if the if the. If the talk between Sunland and Zielinski, the ukrainian President had to do with having an oval office meeting and if Christopher Miller and others are right, that when trumpets Linsky had the July twenty four phone calls Linsky was unaware that aid had been suspended then. The only quid pro quo that would matter is, you can have a way, our meeting and trump? It seems to me that. Having a meeting in the losses. Isn't it is? Is it even? Work is he's asking for a personal favor to help and politically is a vast. We're different thing, then,

congressional mandated just like whereby, if differ, the zaleski government changed its behaviour upon discovering that aid had been suspended, whether or not they knew it at the time, then it constitutes the policy that we ve been talking about. This last could add links that would they would constitute equipment form of withholding congressional disperse military. That is, that is correct, but I'm saying from the american perspective from the american voter, whatever impeachment perspective trump interceding. Already set american policy as voted by Congress. In order to improve his own political position. Is different from saying, be nice to me and do what I want you to do and I'll let you know, but what you'll have a nice photo op in the oval office? we're not the same the same a little different. It's still the pursuit of domestic political advantage using the office

right now. That element has what I meant. That element doesn't change, but one ones looking at it, even though, of course, the concert those high crimes and misdemeanours, is that one is a felony and the other is amiss right. It's not an assault on the constitutional order. It is nevertheless, I think, could constitute an appreciable offence because you're misusing the office right, My main problem is anything according to Yeah. I'm sort of like icy notion of the word like right, impeachable is whatever you know. Two hundred and eighteen members of Congress will, you know, thinks is an impeachable your feet in Poughkeepsie is Papa. Doyle said the people in the french connection. If You know if you want to go that want to go that direction. You know resting on a crappy charge in order to put pressure on somebody, but I do think that a lot of things are being thrown into the sausage, which is

which is fine if there's no impeachment, that is safe, there's no final, impeachment saying mishandling the diplomatic corps, for example, like he fires this ambassador to Ukraine. Foreign service officer, that's a lot of or talk about over the last week, Jovanovic in this various diplomat saying that it's terrible what was done to her and she giving the statement about how Trump is destroying the diplomatic corps. All that, and that is a perfectly legitimate issue for people to discuss. Trump's possession of you know of the civil service or something like that on the other. From so if you want to throw it into, the mix of us are bill, particulars against Trump. That is exposed. In this process, but doesn't, in the end, led to form old charges that led to a Senate trial. To me, that's Fine! It's! When you start! Let me now some

playing games in which you are now interview are now setting a precedent for the idea that a president is not permitted to replace an ambassador president should be able to replace an ambassador out. Will the hole, The ambassador is a personal emissary of the executive. That is, literally is the term ambassador. It's not presenting the interest of the State Department, as well as flows through the Secretary of State and then to the president, the term ambassadors in the constitution, like you, are depressed can a point that those ambassadors heat it that of his choosing to send messages to foreign leaders abroad. We know that maladministration is not supposed to be remedied by impeachment. However, If the overall headline of this thing is reckless, mishandling of american national interests abroad. You gonna hold out a republican horror greeing totally separate the sting.

Issues, but nevertheless makes much more difficult for them to go out in front of this president. Defend him. Right well, as I said last week, you weren't here for this, but there's a weird way in which I think trumpets potentially helped I think, that's which is to say that Republicans will be able to say in future. Just gave it out with me. You know I do not their things. I do not agree with this present. I am heartsick about what has happened in Syria and it's just terrible awful in every possible. When I'm opposing him, I will vote for sanctions Bob LAW, but I don't think you should be impeached like that

this gives them a. I don't like him for this reason, so that shows that I'm not simply his cats PA, but I don't think you should be impeached. That's actually margins a helpful, that's a helpful thing for somebody politically. If there is less you with the numbers. Look like on Syria. Do that's an interesting since we're game these things out to do? We that the american public is going to have a happy new year. But the president's approach to the withdrawal of american forces from northern SIRI. Yes or no boy, don't you think I don't you think that a lot of people are going to say, don't know.

It depends on what the next couple of days look like the images that we saw over the weekend if they become as publicized as they are for people inside the news, business yeah. No american people do not like the slaughter of civilians based on our precipitous withdrawal from teen we were told. You may remember that this was the libertarian moment. Rand Paul is on the cover of time magazine. In this was it was incredible. People in pulling were Pauling. Sixty percent supported the pull out from Iraq, or something like this sum. Big number and seventy percent said we should leave Afghanistan or something like that and then Foley and the two there was real us too. What's were beheaded by ISIS and

the pole, the national polling, flipped, exactly the opposite way to beheadings and six three percent said we should go to war to destroy ISIS sixty three percent after sing. Two months earlier, that we should have no troops in the Middle EAST, this sort of just something that I think about very consistently, because I have so many libertarian leanings domestically. But the big libertarians applied. Assumptions about the domestic order which is supported by the rule,

or to the international order, which is entirely in Arctic, and they don't understand how to maneuver within him and anarchy, and that it is purely a contest of strength and raw test of of power, and I think the american public gets that dumb drop gets that he's the I dont know what his instincts are, he's more isolationist than anything, but he understands power, and I just don't. I don't understand why he thinks why he doesn't see that the withdrew, all the creation of vacuums of power will be filled because he he withdraws, creates vacuums and then says: don't don't don't you dare fill them I'll do something about it. Some and some vague retaliatory So he understands what he's doing yet. And how power works. I think american people do big. Ol libertarians tend to have a dad conception of how power works.

The question is whether Trump's own form of tromp sown in coherent foreign policy more precisely reflects the incoherent views of the you know of the Republican Party, as opposed to any cuz. There's this opinion in washing there's all this all serious, so terrible, overdoing their the betrayal of the Kurds. As we said, show. It's like you thanks a lot, I don't remember you ever worrying spending three worrying about the Kurds when you wanted us to bug out of a rockin and the when the sun is would have massacred has hundreds of thousands of is the dirty secret. This has nothing to do with the Kurds, as I know that us, I'm, a willing are being romilly it yes, but I'm just saying this, this there's a world of Democrat isolationist you don't really have to speak at this? Will first one there never asked to foreign policy question and aid

This debate, let's see if they are to markets tomorrow, then they can also trumps terribly betrayed her when they are as outlined later about they sort of couch. It is like it's horrible, bad and everything, but also, I would probably do something very different from a broke upon it, and so I don't know The whole point is so tomorrow night we got a debate, so will the debate Jason. Continue the Elizabeth Warren Surge we'll burly show up. Will the entire debate be about birdie, whether pretty coughs? Yes, and then also will it be about Bernie charging Elizabeth Warren with a horrible crime of capitalism yeah. I mean I don't know that was that's really. Does that Question is what the hell is he still doing in the race

The guy had a heart attack. Two weeks ago, we Sammy ignores all I'm more convinced. Now that he's going to serve rivals till the wheels of a convention. So to speak. I I just I just I don't think he's, I think being who he is, how we got here his late career pickle superstardom. All of this means for him that he's just not stop Don't underestimate also did the bitter of his Bernie Boroughs from the last elections Eichel either they felt cheated and that I agree with- and I think that could that lead them irrationally to go all the way to the convention with Elizabeth Warren's going to call them all sexist, what it means if he goes on at this pace as the primary in New Hampshire and South Carolina and do whatever he'll have another heart attack. Yes, you like

there's a reason. People are told to slow down after they have a heart attack. His heart muscles are injured and and and desiccating and need to be either be like, quieted down and slow down the stent needs that stance need to Sir solidified, like he will kill himself. This is not a joke. Well don't you know, go back onto the seven days a week twenty hours a day. Thing when they ve got our attack, he willed he will drop dead in December, Even if he survives the immediate near term of the election actuarially speaking, his odds are not great. What day you know did over age. Sixty five, if you have a heart attack, two slash three of people I was in eight years. That's the kind of averages are great numbers for Bernie I mean I just think. I just think it is the psychodrama of him. You know, like just

bearing on a stage and looking like he is tired, will be now to scare everybody who was watching him six UK, I mean like you, don't want to watch somebody who's like going to collapse, who you know who has their ears. Indeed not insignificant odds that he will collapse in front of your face. You dont want to seem attacked, mean, didn't you know, evenly disagree with his gusting awful policies and answered by dears abet capitalism, every day will collapse and once a Joe Biden, I will explode. Elizabeth Warren emerges reasonably healthy, candid yeah and, of course we have not even taken up the fact that she has told us, like her, renders lie about having been fired for being pregnant. So I was on vacation for this, and all I saw were- Really and pregnant Haunteth really unconvincing effort by then simply neutral journalists and media institutions to say well, it is her truth.

Hd truth, but it's the for so many. No, it is her truth in its her truth that might not I've. Her story gets. Everyone else has now, because it really is her truth that when her contract was extended for another year, even though she was pregnant and she decided not to go back- that she was actually far the best thing about green rooms is when the truth When is behind the scenes, and everyone gets the gimmick with Elizabeth Warren and how it is just the mission of the mainstream press to thrust her over the top as much as I possibly The part the problem for people like her is that if they got away with it and obviously in the long run, it'll turn out that she got away with Pocahontas stuff because she recover from that absolutely horrendous. First, six weeks of her of her, campaign to rise into the mid twenties and into a tie for the for the leadership of primary

and then this is that you can get away with it and then it'll also be that thing about how why shouldn't she had trump lies and he gets away with it. But if you Where is the notion that it's ok for somebody to just make stuff up to make? appear: victims of policies and victim of a society in which they were not victims. Those policies or societies, this is I don't know what you know that not helpful to her party. That's my point like the enabling her Fictions is this thing that it's kind of like honey, Biden and Joe in this sense, which is that you know things lie in wait and then, when it's really time for something to explode in your face. It'll explode in your face.

And Elizabeth Warns- you know habitual lying exploded in her face and she could doktor head down and stop for a while and now she's back at it, and anybody thinks that you can shame Donald Trump meant and not calling her out for her mendacity, because he is also a bitch liar down trumps superpowers, absolute invulnerability, to shame. He does not care, it's not just that. He doesn't care it's at the people who are always going to support him. There's no jitsu on this they've already come to the conclusion that all politicians lie and therefore it's okay for him to lie because he would be unilaterally disarming if he were and you know what he wanted. He wanted stuff from Russia to beat Hillary Hillary wanted stuff from Russian to beat him. You know however, you want it. However, you want to play it.

There's always a mirror image. So if you want to take him as a pathological, liar he'll then spend three months talking about about her as a pathological liar and at some point everybody I'm twitter will said the terrible you can't normalizing UK does the moral equivalent you and then the problem is that it really isn't moral equivalent. Nine hundred and twenty five million dollars will reinforce the message and people will believe it and we have twenty five million dollars on fracturing in Pennsylvania. She said she would bear fruit. The first day she was in office, something a president can't do what she knows, which is a little eye, but you know twenty five, will work in practice in Pennsylvania and all sorts of ancillary businesses and all those towns around the Marcellus Shale, who are going to know who are going to

That and say she is not our friend and she's got to win Pennsylvania, so so we started out with Trump and trouble and now we're back to the devil, trouble, so I think this could just be the most amazing race to the bottom of ever seen, where it'll be November. Third, and basically entire country will be like do I vote for him or do I vote for her or you know whatever. Whatever whoever is going to decide. The election is like standing there on the morning of November third wanting to jump into a river, because this is like then we're back to a depressed electorate. Which helps him roughly a radically. Part of the Electra that gets depressed, the electric who is seeing him after four years, voted for him to give him a shot and then isn't that happy with what they see minutes Scots tests to overcome apathy or depression suitably fun anyway, so so ardour. As I said, our new issue Avail

for your readership, or a Tuesday Wednesday. Keep in mind that we ask you to subscribe after a few free written there, a teen, fantastic things to reading this issue sake, read a few: you should pay up. You know why cuz you don't want to be. You don't want to be like a dick out there you want to support us because Not only are we entertaining you for free gear on the podcast, but we publish a lot of really good stuff that will enlighten in Ravenna FI and excite you on a daily and monthly basis. So with that for Christine Rosen Avery Mall.