Welcome to the commentary magazine, Bailey Progress, the West were the first week of May. This is Friday. May twenty twenty? I am John POD words. The editor commentary the seventy five year old, monthly, intellectual analysis, political probity, cultural criticism from a conservative perspective, we invite you to join us account Terry magazine that cover we give you a few free reads: and then ask you to subscribe with me as always senior editor, a Greenwood high Abe, a job does he have any renewal Rossman? I Noah I dont senior writer, Christine Rosen High Christine again,

and joining us today. Commentaries Washington commentary, columnist felling editor of the Washington Free Beacon, fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, met you caught Nettie High Matt. I John I examined the map is finishing, a peace were the June issue is calling for the June issue on the Biden, weep stakes and I dont actually know what what he is going to say I'm going to put them on the spot and ask him what he's going to say. What are you going to say? Matt, I'm going to say if steaks have become very revealing of the priorities of the Democratic Party in the dawn of the twenty first. Which is really it's coming down to just coalition management and in the in this case, that you can really see an effort by figures like Al Shopton.

Jesse Jackson to pressure Biden into choosing em a black woman and not solely a mean solely for reasons of kind of of politics I think this is limiting violence, search and possibly a political liability because did you eat he stuck between Stacy, Abrams and Comma Harris, both both of whom bring real baggage? I think two two presidential ticket, why is well damage, is out of the running. I mean you have all these rightly. We can name

A few people know issued by the way, explain who found them and they loaded fertile. That without damage to say, is a member of Congress from Florida. I think forth. Her third term, some like that was was, was a police officer and was very impressive. During the impeach. She was one of the house in Peter managers and was impressive, as you know, in the performance of sense, tell em in what she doesn't bring to the table, was born, throwing which is probably what would discourage just about every progressive that you named it's it's it's not solely demographic. It is, I mean it's not entirely. It is. It is premier demographic, but it is not solely demographic. They do want a personality profile that fits. The modern political aspect that we like to see witches

being very combative right. I mean a bit that the reach this the stakes is different from others of further, for one reason, which is Biden is not expected to run for a second term, he went, he will eat he's already, gonna be as old as run Reagan was when Reagan left the presidency if he wins that the election in November, so there's a sense that the future of the Democratic Party rides on it and with the stakes are high. I dont know how and tell it that help. Sadly, it is to say at the first term, congresswoman he's going to be the next present. The United States, after Joe Biden, or lead the Democratic Party in twenty twenty. Four. I am, and the reason I come to this conclusion is simply as all saying, the peace

a lot of time in two thousand and eight and two thousand and nine researching what happened to the last time. A presidential candidate shows a relatively inexperienced fresh faced for his beep in order to enliven the ticket confusing with energy, and, while I think of Sarah Palin brought many strengths to that ticket, and indeed but people. I dont know whether it really helped Chun came in the end, and I I think bided is facing the same dilemma in twenty Twond. Isn't there also, though, particularly in a way the issue of Stacy Apron such I do think we have to give our colleague nor Rossman here a lot of credit. He was one of the first and earliest to point out that she was actively campaigning for this job and now all the mainstream media outlets, like Stacy Aprons, really wants to be vice president, you think will she she bring? Something else, though, which is a way to calm. The the very progressive wing of

Democratic party, you know, I mean in some way she's she's, not just a bridge to african american or female voters, but to maybe the Bernie Bro I mean there are a lot of young progressive voters out there who are really happy with Biden who want to see a progressive symbol in the vice presidential slot. They maybe he's thinking she would fit the bill, but I agree with with a mad that there there is a real risk and choosing someone who doesn't have governance experience. And she really doesn't she's inexperience she's an interesting and charismatic, but it's not clear that she would She really has the the experience to take on that role, and I wonder what if there is a bit of trying to pander a little bit too is progressive wing. If he chooses some I gave rooms. I just don't know how you I mean. Two thousand eight suggests that there is something to this, but also the the experience angle was what the Mccain campaign used, primarily as its primary line of attack against Brok. Obama didn't essentially

didn't really have much of an effect there and then his successor had zero experience in politics surf experiences. Really you know this this detriment as even if even if Joe Biden is, is this sort of presumed to be president with a reduced capacity to execute that office. Let's say I don't know I really think that the voters are gonna punish them, because we have a decades worth of evidence that suggest they don't really care much about experience and involve Anders and there's trump till I mean I have to think to some degree. He sort are blown that open right. This standard expectations of experience, the considerations which lives I'm drew from Saint considerations like that, I don't think are or what they used to be. I don't know any other serious pandemic the exact, or is this a much more serious time in american politics yeah? But you know the other thing about about Trump and Biden and trampling things that ours is obviously Biden, one because of experience

That's why he is the nominee. Is that in the end, he His argument that he was the most experienced person did vice president someone, everybody knew what kind of consensus candidate but a steady hand on the tiller was what got him nomination, why he led from from the outset. So clearly, it's got some strength and if you were to appoint someone who was an x factor that way, I don't know if you would damage his argument, but you would certainly, I think, implicitly create a problem. Which is if there is an argument to be made, even if it's sort of algae, if there is a sense among the american electorate that Biden there's somebody who needs to be watched for potential incapacitation You wanna get Trump bowed and trumps about it out.

Ready on day, one to be present. The United States, which was George H, stubby, bushes, slogan, running and eighty eight. The idea has to be he's picked, somebody who can take the office a moment's notice seventy eight years old, However, you might think about whether he's lost a step or two whatever, and so I now that you know it in the first do no harm. Category of picking somebody to run with that's something I will bet that they are cognizant of, even if they're, not if even if they don't talk openly. It I mean the mine campaign can be reasonably reassured that they can forgive me for being a little callous. Take the people who are low for certain demographic features in the invite piece in the BP for granted Where are they gonna go, and the notion, here that you know if they were very comfortable in their primacy within the democratic hole.

In that they be lobbying in such a public fashion, suggests to me at least, that their reasonably concerns that they will be overlooked. I would say I so there is another demographic, better democratic, worried about an that's Hispanics end of year. It's interesting president trumpet showing strength with spanish marathons in in ahead of the corona virus and even to some degree, still still,

And so one name that hasn't really brought up is the governor of New Mexico. We shall live on tourism and believe her name is and so that somebody who is kind of out there in either she was the public health coordinator New Mexico before she became governor, Gan she's she's early in her tenure. You know so they said there is Canada, a pale and thing, but she does have experiences. So there are options if he wants to choose and a woman of color, but that are beyond Stacy Abrams Uncommonly Harris, but I do believe you want you dont want of GDP to become a story on to herself for hisself. I think that's it! That's that

that's the case and with some of these some of these figures who are very new to national politics, there is a real potential. I think that they become a distraction from whatever argument abandons making out by does not really making an argument felt. Maybe he wants extraction. You know it has been taken weeks for him to move from his basement to his upstairs library, you know, so they may end up being helpful for him to at least have some type of person making arguments for him, but I do think there is a real but the real danger zone for the binding campaign look I mean it. I think there are two candidates than are obvious runners in a world in which, having said you were gonna, pick a woman, but haven't said you gonna pick a black woman, or with you. No woman are obvious. One is obviously Amy Clover Char right sort of like came in fourth or something

formed extremely well in a series of long debates and was extensively vetted for a year, had her life picked over had the bad stories written about her but being a bad boy as a year ago or more than a year ago, held her own smart from purple stay. You now knows how to talk to midwestern whatever and then the other is JANET Napoletano, who is? Was governor of Arizona was secretary that Apartment homeland security was an attorney general and the University of California University system and is but he who therefore in resume terms, fit the bill. As you know, somebody who's govern, worked on a difficult issue. Is it now? as a crazy leftist. Also in it,

credit, governor of a of republican state? And you know in the end, you have to figure that out what we know is saying about how where they're gonna go. Well, I mean they could stay home, but that, though, the people who would stay home that people are worried about staying home. I dont think those are the people that bind needs to worry about state how the people? It is a very bad thing home. Our voters in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. The democratic voters who who were depressed or something by Hillary Clinton and state For that reason, and I don't know how you now picking a firebrand or person of colored necessarily pushes their buttons janet- is Biden has framed himself as a transitional figure here to elevate the next year.

Christian Democrats into positions of authority she's been far too long outside the national political staff. I dont know that's true. She isn't she the sub. She is three years older than than club, which are I mean she was she's young. She was born and she was born a nineteen, fifty seven, so she's she's sixty three years old, I mean that's I think I can explain the case. I don't think the case makes itself you have to make it now. So you saw a couple of days ago by said, I'm a transitional. Figure it out, but that was he was floating a trial balloon as to whether or not there was going to be a good man, such for him to run out- and you know that doesn't mean he's gonna hold to it. Occasionally ever take a woman, I mean he says things. My car is not to do it in go crazy, that's until when it should be our first single presidencies, Buchanan

are you saying mad mild, wild speculation on this part gas, but when deciding on a b but wouldn't Nepal, a tunnel or enclosure presume that Biden has no interest and, in fact does need to extend abridged Bernie voters. But again, that's I guess That's that's, that's knows. Is it the burning voter who will who will mark the margin of victory defeat for him I mean this normally, some disenchanted, you know his pro birdies secretary and people like her are gonna, be the people who are going to decide the election there there some overlap between them and the people who stayed home instead of voting for Hilary right to mean that that is that's part of that crowd. Right, although don't you get the sense I mean again, you know like something that social of social scientist hadn't been waylaid.

You know over the last three or four years, bye, bye, bye, the Trump example the study of the Hilary collapse- or you know where the how Hilary lost really should be it dominating feature of present day political science. The way in ninety nine in the ninety nineties, the the question of what effect Ross Perot had on the ninety. Ninety two election was pretty much the dominating feature of american political science in the ninety nineties. I've seen that much on it, but this question of who were those missing. Twenty thousand people in Michigan, not though not who were the people who came out for trumpeted come out for Romney. We read about them till our ears bleed, but where those way doesn't people where they were they black

Are they leftists or were they sort of ordinary or where they were cut across the board? And they just didn't like Hilary, because they thought she was a crook work in outward and they got and they got and they got disheartened because can be real. When the investigation at the end of October. I would love to know if there was any way to quantify that, but I haven't really seen any good research on their largest l, Mate NASH Nation, wide between twenty twelve and twenty sixteen, but to Europe that has really answer your question of what happened within the sway states, in those three states that really gave Trump the elections, I do think there is it. There is concern in the Democratic Party based on reporting on both the black turnout question as well as the EU. The youth question is less progressive. I mean you, young people tend to be more

aggressive, intend to support, Bernie and far greater numbers, and so you have kind of dual concerns there, and I don't know you really split that that difference, especially while you're trying to reassure that the suburban. I too gave the Democrats, the house and twenty eighteen, and I thought I had eyes. I just ten to your question earlier John. I think that there is very easy to lump trump victory in talk about populism and this wave of populism, but within that wave our people, who I dont think oneself identify, is kind of radical, trompe and populous, but there were plenty of people, including plenty of those voters in their swing states who really worth sort of and not anti a step.

Spent in an aggressive way, but just sick of dynastic Clinton. Bush politicking. Other kinds of people who, like we just need a new face where sick of you know that the people who loved her limits- and you know I didn't really like the the decades long reign of power that the Clinton's had exercised over the Democratic party. Even if it had coincided with a fairly good, a prosperous time in american history, so I do think that their these are not radical proton trump populist, but I do think they are sometimes lumped into that. Much larger and more shocking phenomenon from from researchers perspective, and I would love to know. I think it's why people were shocked by twenty eight teen and seeing other suburban Ladys going for fair much much further to less than some expected. Those people are not radical, but there are also this satisfied with with what's on offer, so I wonder how much Biden needs to think about that as he's choosing renovated

I made it again. You know that you write a book about. Are you write a book about Sarah Palin and this was it again an interesting social science question was early, Social Sciences just that she may have helped became marginally. You know like by a million votes or something that, if you sliced and you did this needed that, of course, Mackay lost by aid so get out that she helped him with em out that she helped them gain back a point. Is meaningless in many ways. It is just that the question there. She cost anything. She clearly, I think, didn't customizing, but then you get into the you know that this do no harm question. That's why somebody like clover char, it's the most sense, because

she comes in and it's not like. There's gonna be some investigative report. She had she had four different campaigns doing Opto on her for a year. Since all yours gonna be some. You know some story that comes. How did she did something? You know women Minnesota that the people don't don't know about? I think you know there's now. I think this boom, let idea you know, maybe Andrew Cuomo could eat up because of his enhanced profile. Could come on, even though he said he was going to pick a woman that he was in a position of saying Molina. We had this moment any of these, a great young leader, great he's, not young, but you know a great leader or whatever, but you can't do that with Cuomo baggages unblock people, don't even really understand how bad the baggages on somebody like Cuomo and that's the thing about val demagogues or you know any twenty people whose names you can come up with.

That there could be. One thing there that just invalidates them- and you know I mean lemmings- is really well. Well, that it and then you have gathered at all, but there are others, and particularly in the Senate, who are whose have not been floated like, and I dont know why. For example, Tammy Duckworth I have absolutely no idea whether why she's not on the shortlist, that's an interesting point, and obviously she has some that's all. Profiles are possibly want but, There could be a reason I don't know one word about putting, though I mean I think this is the last few weeks of the political new cycle with Biden shows us even a heavily added person can still have something emerge, yeah right. Well, if somebody has a if somebody has a as an axe to grind

So obviously, this Megan Kelly Interview with terror readers gonna come out in the next couple of days. I continued to be wildly skeptical of this story and everything about it, and I assume that Mega Who is it? Who is actually a tough interviewer end and somebody who was on Twitter a couple of weeks ago poking fun at Democrats for their doubles, the cabin ah by double standard thing, that you know she doesn't just she's Yoshida roll over four four four tirades story which godson more corroboration yesterday. We should discuss well

The again the cooperation is that without doesn't without dismantling, ok first, it is written complaint from ninety ninety six alleging sexual harassment in job. Office. Read in that, and I am now you can go into the details of why, and I think we should of why this is less compelling, but nevertheless the guardian conservatives have been making- which I think is is circumspect and morally righteous? Is that the story, now involves. One ones accusation: five contemporaneous statements, affirming her accusation and a written statement from the period confirming the accusation. Now, I'm with you I'm suspicious of this, but if this was bred, haven't I story, he would be destitute and living a life of poverty, avowal poverty in a convent somewhere. Will? Yes, unless recalled that I mean that the standard that I see as being made,

in comparison now is seen in the room were constant, being reminded that Doctor Christine Blasi Fort had all of these sworn affidavits like she swore it affidavit all these people sworn affidavit, but what the content of their affidavit was just yes, she told me this happened. I can confirm that that's true, can confirm. I was not there. I would so. I do think that very evidence was first therapy notes exactly couldn't quite recall, the number of people and this incident or where it happened. It was nothing David. I mean I do think we should be yet we ve only just as sceptical as of that, as we are aware of these recent documents to its right, while just forgot all right, so so try to be a person with a consistent view From then to now you know, I thought I thought she was lying: entire reads: lying based on the fact that the entire,

He said well, you know when I guess you this complaint to the Senate office. I chickened out- and I didn't mention sexual harassment, so there's if you find a document where there's a complaint, if they actually find it, it won't stay and it won't support my contention. So that's like will great. So what are you citing the fact that you issue you were that, you had a troubling experience in the office war and then, by the way, her story changes in the in the Megan Kelly Interview. She says that bind and said I want to ask you, which is a new detail. For two weeks ago it was, he said, I heard you liked me and then he you know, and then he molested her and now it's you know so great. So you know. I also have memories that I can allow

right upon in you know end if, if, if, if necessary, to try to change the new cycle, you know what I find interesting is the sub group of liberal pundits. Who now are saying I dont care of biting did it, yes, Linda Hersman TB is me. I agree with you John. I think there are a lot of problem. But the story, even though there seems to be more documentary evidence that something was happening to her in that office in early nineties, but this this idea that it doesn't matter if binding did it is the reflection of the famous Trump saying that he could go out and shoe some one in the middle of it. That avenue known would cares, and it is, there is no distinction now between the guy at the most committed supporters. Tromp in the most committed supporters of Biden were really just the most committed opponents of tromp right ahead, like personal, that it Biden that they say it doesn't matter whether it is that is there so determined to reject from from office and that

The cosmic irony of this event, which is really rather satisfying, is that this is now an absolute binary choice that the consequences of a second time term are catastrophic to the point of world ending and if you dare even entertain the notion of non voting or sitting this out voting third party, you are contributing to that nightmarish shell escape that we will all reside in the rolls have completely reversed four years later The one the one silver lining here and in a radical it was stated its been stated a few times at various forms by Joe Biden himself is a better more nuance more realistic standard. For how we in the future should judge these kinds.

Allegations. He said you know we should listen to women, but we can't. We have two, then go through a process in etc, etc. Now we can and should do absolutely call out hypocrisy of of political leaders who whose say that now but didn't before, with with other people who been accused, but there is some. Good to come out of this. If we can get to a more realistic and reasonable standard for these sorts of delegations and an acceptance of a lot of the ambiguity in these stories and the acceptance of the fact that in many of these cases, were never going to come to a completely satisfying answer about what happened if it's this long ago, and that, of course, we have the other irony of this week, which is that the Betsy Divorcee Education Secretary issued the new guidelines involving investigations into sexual assault on campus, a subject that tat we

about extensively over the years in commentary on the blog- and you know, is one of the great injustice stories of the decade? How young men have been pretty much exclusively on. Men have been railroaded by STAR Chambers whose decisions, if they get them into a into an actual courtroom are overturned with enormous judgments, financial judgments. Against the universities that simply deemed they had done something wrong with no evidence now. I think the cases are the hundreds literally, Hundreds as a result of the guidance from the education department. That said, you will not get federal funding unless you change your stand. Of evidence to a preponderance of evidence as opposed to a beyond reasonable doubt and presumption of innocence right. So she announced this and the Bible.

Campaign, then issued a statement saying that he would overturn this finding the minute that he became president. The same week. That he's saying. We need, of course, here allegations but were put them through a process in which people are judged fairly. Now what I dont think, if I didn't have anything to do with his showing that specific statement is my guess. You know in the way these campaigns function, but if it's an example of how the mindset functions in the in an idiot logical Hothouse atmosphere or a partisan hot have atmosphere that it never occurred to anybody

on the campaign that they were stepping on their own story. By doing this and handing a hypocrisy arrow for Republicans to shoot at vidant that will pass with will stick. You know I mean if there are three debates and- and they actually took take place- you can bet that somebody is going to ask that question. The Bible will say you because it's a good. Quite first, what's good question somebody like Jake Tapir, you know someone who wants to see how we can get. There are people who We'll do it, despite the general sense that the press is running interference where the more a fox anchor something like that It'll just be interesting to see you know it's like you, don't they haven't their game, anything out they don't that, because they have had this

someone from the beginning of the story that they would somehow be excused from its power, because the media are their blocking tackle and they know that the mainstream media want trump out. I think really adds its letting him off too easy to say tat. He had nothing to do with that statement, though I really do I mean I because its It said, sir. Binary statement. It means that Europe either you accept there, you don't accepted, that's a kind of a sweeping thing, four for someone to declare on his behalf, especially at the moment I mean there's. There is consideration of what of what's happening right now, I mean that fit fair enough. Fair enough. I just I assume that he has no. I haven't what's going on that. This is it. This is abiding presumption, that's a general if you want to know the pointed out last week by that standard, the bite and wants to re impose on the nations campuses.

He is guilty. You should be expelled from school because because of whatever the eye asylum in an annex to your point, yonder that will have to come up with an added the moderator. Doesnt bring up breed up, no rub. President Trump will break out now. Have you by the way we should shift now to another, just a story, which is the decision by the Justice Department to drop all charges against former national scary Visor Michael and this is an amazing, very complicated story, because it involves a kind of rejection of a guilty plea that Flynn himself entered, but the the evidence of a river the railroading of Flynn is, is so blatant and plain based on

notes in former thing, with miss behaviour by by the by the FBI. Eli Lake is doing a big piece for us following up on his FBI scandal, piece of a couple of months ago that will be in the magazine, will have back on here that talk about it. When, when he's done, I dont know that there are larger political ramifications of this matter in the sense that you know it will make any electoral difference, but the the argument that the outgoing Obama administration behaved unbelievably badly, based probably on a theoretically righteous presumption, meaning that they believed it that the Trump campaign was a russian operation and had to be brought down by any means. No

sorry, therefore justifying whatever means they wished to adopt will will sully the Obama legacy. It seems to me if, if history is written in a way that isn't strictly, you know ideological yeah. Nothing, nothing! We learn about the Russia Investigation since new in the past year has helped the Obama case, or the Commies case the caves case, none of its good and the same names keep reappearing. I mean that's what I was struck by how it was Peter struck who was involved in the end.

And within a flintham in disguise everywhere you know and any get it's like one of those bad, if, like one, those bad tv shows where there's only one cop how there is like a private detective in LOS Angeles and he's always getting in trouble, it's always the same cuts like that. There are twenty thousand cops, but there's always this one carpet struck as the one copy was an Flynn he was on this. It was on that it was on the other thing Annalisa page and we must look at least it also clearly had a meat is based on the texts that we learned about it. Twenty eighteen, oh you know they clearly had some type of animists. You know toward toward tromp untoward, trumps people, I'd, say at again: you're actually raise a very complicated story and Eliza expert at it. So I prefer to him. I must say one possible political consequence. John is that Michael Flynn will

here at the republican virtual convention summer, at two probably to lead, lead chance. The vino lock her up again, like you, did, ask for you, so that would be really quite tragic. We have this incapacity in american political life to entertain two thoughts and The same brain seems like there were a lot about actors at the OJ. Mike Flynn is not a good guy. My plan was wrong, but did a lot of terrible things, gave a lot of legitimacy to Vladimir Putin, who gave a lotta legitimacy to the all right favourably quote: tweeting tweets like more Jews, not anymore for real, really stuff happen lobbied for the turkish government without disclosing any of this

or maybe even the sea was sitting in unclassified briefings and work behind the scenes to extradite this clerical pencil vain. Yet this is all bad stuff. Now without prosecutable, you didn't deserve the treatment that he got the deal J he was mistreated and injustice was done. These not a good guy didn't deserve to be lionize right. Well, ok, so, even if you take As you know, I think that's that's a strong argument against Flynn who I have. Why vicious with many issues with and an end and did before before any of this happened, That said, when you have the weight of the federal government coming down on you, like you know like the foot,

you know what what is the line and ninety eight for the boots. You now the boot stamping on your face forever, so that you reach a point at which your Michael Flynn and you basically plead guilty. It appears in order to keep the feds away from your son to keep them from indicting your son Also because they bankrupted you and all of that, that flints own poor character were you now behaviour angry behaviour after having been fired by Obama, as though, as the chief of the defence intelligence agency, I mean that prevails in India in response to having you now lived through. This kafkaesque experience of having the entire bureaucracy, the federal criminal, be rock sea going after your juggler and your lawyer apparently not in Cahoots. But your lawyer basically saying there's really nothing we can do you just have to cut a deal because they're just never gonna.

Let up and then only later getting a lawyer who says not a we're going to. We are not gonna rest until we get you cleared because you are not guilty of any offence, and then the people who were going after him yesterday are saying the most astounding things like unable to look at documents and say: do you know yeah there, your first, a guy like Ben, witnessed, says a couple weeks ago. G Mike Flynn thinks he should get special treatment. What about all the poor black people or miss treated by the by the federal the system which is like how. How is that an argument how's that a moral argument. So it's ok because he's white that he gets mistreated, cause black people according to him were mistreated but so is the logic of social justice right in it and then you have, and then you have the documents that showed that they were normally discussing how not to follow procedure in making clear to him that he was a tall

an investigation or that he was being investigated or that anything that he was saying constituted a statement that you could be accused of having committed perjury having made these. These are documents that say this in Europe say, I've never seen anything like this before why he pledged guilty. He pledged guilty. So therefore, will so did the central park. Five, if you want to go to the the case of you know so so what happened here is that it didn't rise in the level of Trump Pardoning Flynn, because billboard looked at, evidence that he has signed this formula attorney to go get ever an end said we're dropping this cakes and we're invalidating the plea, its garbage. It's all garbage and I can't justify it and then to have these Laufer people act like this is some kind of outrage, because nothing like this has ever happened before.

To my knowledge? Well prosecuting a former national security adviser on the grounds that he had a conversation with the russian ambassador during the and this and has never happened before and shouldn't have happened now. It should never happen again. It will probably now never happen again because of the embarrassment that the F b I will go through because of the dismissal of the prosecution. But I've been that's. The amazing thing is to watch the the co me. The world

pull, who imagine the James Commie? Isn't a disgusting slimy public servant of the worst kind, who has done more damage to this country in various ways than almost anybody in public service in the last twenty five years? You know unelected official to watch them continue to come up with. Apollonia of this sort is just brain numbing. Ok, I ran over the culture, call me to get a title for a peace, yet in six feet, eight inches of horror. So I've met you gotta go in a couple of minutes. Is there anything that you want a very? Is there any topic? Data tat, you think, is not getting sufficient attention these days that people should be. You could also talk about Europe.

This morning, which I thought was fantastic or try not to do Karuna virus stuff. I guess, but it was a really good piece of work. For you do that. Let me just say this week: we we literally took took it upon ourselves in the show, not Do the value know not to just sort of like do our daily half an hour and forty five minutes of you know. They were thinking about on the virus, but I, but I'm parked, because I mean honestly looked at that we looked at our our audience numbers. As you might say, I would have been skyrocketing over the last six weeks and the, and they were down this week from last week and we are so presuming that may be the reason that fewer people had been listening. Is that tat we ve been depressing them or,

or the sameness of the same, this of our everyday lives is being reflected in the same this cats tat. Maybe we should mix up ass. I'm gonna ask you listeners granted if you're list that your by definition, not somebody who stopped listening. So maybe this is a self selecting audience. But if you have thoughts on how we have been handling the topics that we have been discussing and whether or not we have been here this too much. Are we what what the balance oughta be showed us an email at podcast at Commentary magazine dot com over the weekend? It would be very helpful to hear from you is but very helpful to hear from you throughout this, and let us know what you think anyway. So mad talk about your peaceable them. Well, the peace It's just basically how we arrive creeping back on my beacon common notes, reprinted an ash review on the weekends, but damn is that how we arrived at this terrible new normal about you know about seventeen hundred deaths so

for the foreseeable future and curb seems to be tapering off somewhat slowly, but I'd ever, I recommended to everyone who has written, read it yet, but I would say just one final thing: bribes forward, looking that political and some are related. A bit but not totally witches. These are employment numbers it came out on the morning. Never recordings podcast are absolutely stunning and the highest unemployment rate since the great depression we know there's some, like thirty million Americans out of work, I'm very interested and how this will affect Troms approval rating and my suspicion is it won't, back trumps approved and that in itself is kind of remarkable. To consider- and just I mean maybe something for all of us to cut

all over and that in the coming days I mean it- is perhaps possible that you know the floor. Just dropped out from beneath trumps feet as restarted this economic news, but all the data and experience we have had up to this point suggest that that's not gonna happen and so. We'll have trump trading within his very narrow band of support that he's always traded and in the midst of an economic crisis that that is really generational. Just one more piece of uncertainty in the political climate today, well that this is the in the rank pondered tree a world. This is the idea that the juciest subject right as some who's gonna pay for this and in some sense there's a boy there

there's a strong moral frame and which, if the american public isn't going to hold trump responsible for the economic disaster there doing something proper cause he's not responsible. He didn't make. The virus despite all this nonsense about how, if only we done everything right in February, people wouldn't have died. To this extent, ADA beggars the is something that work, we're gonna, learn and relatively short order. I think, as a is an incredibly fallacious notion, because of the way the virus spreads or whenever once once it broke out when it broke out the notion that it could have there could have been resist to the break out through a presidential statement of principle or purpose and a national lockdown, which is which would which would not have been possible. If you go to go back in time three months and think about

the Plaza Owen, Cuomo everybody in New York think I'll ride the subways and lick poles and get out make out with people. You don't know during their behaviour during the day during the Chinese New year and go to go to the revival of foreign these at at at Lincoln Centre and and ride the subway as much as you possibly can trump really could have said something we're done, something that would have entered that would have into After that. We view about again that that was a response from the democratically Two residence Charlotte Linguistic, travel restructure eyes from from among chinese nationals have which is very poor, setup restrictions. He likes to pretend that they weren't, but they were, but get. That was the w we chose said that this was racist and counterproductive and democratic elites followed suit. I dont think that he has done a good job. I don't forget you, but he's done a good job, particularly Cuomo in and the Basel. I think I've done a good job,

yet everybody in their within the sound of my voice, thinks that they're, just in our lot of people, think that one was wonderful. But what about what I'm? What I'm saying is that if people don't hold trump responsible for the economic calamity, there right not to hold tromp responsible for the economic climate It still seems to me- and some of your people have already talked about that- much- that the political system was extraordinarily responsive to the crisis. You can say well, the bill was written wrong and ppp. They ran a buddy, and so they went back and I got more money and their six trillion dollars our door trying to fight the economic crisis. What exactly is it that people think the government could have? Well, I there's gonna be a lot of my sight, but not met you do get to a little forward. Looking here, and I would like to hear you describe what what the differences between a smart opening a dumb reopening and why we're going into the dumb reopening yeah,

although the phrases comes from John Cochrane, the grumpy economist at over, who wrote a very smart pose this week that I talk about a my comment, but that the countries that had been able to truly bend the curve so that their having sustained declines case since they tallies are their small countries, their islands and there also places that are really were able because of their experience and the Sars outbreak in two thousand three to prepare a system of testing tracing and isolation. That's what coppin calls a smart reopen, but for a variety of reasons, America is not there we're we're we're not able to do it. What the ardent try our tests arising, but very slowly. It will take some time to where we get to the recommended number of tests that you need to have this type of.

Regime tracing raises privacy concerns. You know I am, I become more tuned, I think, to the privacy issue in recent years, and it is an invasion of privacy and in America that handled differently than I think in many other countries. Finally, the isolation. What we're talking. You know, stay in your room, what we did that these countries set up hotels or they commandeered hotels, and they sent people there and tracked him and make sure they didn't. Leave these places again very against the american Grain so hard to do that. I think that in the United States the smart reopen so instead we have what is of a common cause, a dumb reopen witches

You know when things seem to be getting a little bit better. We can't stay cooped up all the time, so we're all going to kind of venture out, try to recapitulate some semblance of normality and when we hear that the cases are rising again, like the turtle going back into its shell, we're just going to kind of retreat, and it's it's really going to come down to individual behavior and that's going to make. Messy situation, I think, but it might be the only situation and I'm like the only realistic scenario until we have until we have real therapeutics in a vaccine. So the dumb reopen. You know the other thing about the dumb reopen is, may It's not so dumb like we don't even know if it's done, that's part of the problem here is likely Florida example, which was that Florida chain had policies that were essentially enacted county by county, not state. Why

And so they they crack down in the south and serve left that nor the northern central and northern partner states relatively unmolested and the break out did not apparently occur, whereas in New York state the entire state was basically walk down. I think a lot of it for reasons the gallery. Terry justice, in other words like Crystal Cuomo, had to do it because the plaza was doing it badly. So Promo had to come in as the governor answer do statewide stuff, because the plaza who might have had emergency powers in the city couldn't is just a screw up. Idiot jerk, moron

dickhead, and so you know, did everything wrong and so Quabo than have to come and impose they wide that were unnecessary. North of Westchester, so you can't go to the park in Syracuse like that, is that makes no no Kapital playgrounds circles. That makes no sense, though one hesitant Syracuse, so you know, maybe the dumb reopening will be the right way to handle it, because the large scale action that people seem to crave. You know the presidential leader governance, you know all of that cap dry. The map met micro. The macro solution is not the micro solution, but we maybe I'm wrong, and while there there's it's gonna be different. Over the country, but there just go burying your eccentric centric. Here New York, cities, government, the mayor was,

it pretty hard over the this weekend for the appearance of disparate enforcement of social distance and guidelines, the parks and more affluent pets, parts of the city, wider parts of the city were unmolested, whereas parks in more poorer and minority dominated portions of the city were very heavily policed so and it was a fair criticism. So what does the city do? It will limit access, tides and river appear forty five and peer forty six? Not not going to lift the restrictions on minority dominated portions of the city is going to import them and apply them universally across the city. This is same really annoying just leave. We I just I just read this tweet cause it's important because I just you know used a bad word on on the podcast. I want people to understand. Why did oh, so Mayor De Block runs the head on Twitter runs the headline from the New York Times. It has scrutiny of social distance.

In policing is thirty. Five or forty arrested are black. Ok, ok, policing, policing is a city function. He appoints the police, commissioner, he is the mayor mare, build the Plaza tweet saving lives. This pandemic is job one. The envoy PD uses summonses and arrest. Do it most people practise social distancing, with only with only hundreds of summonses issued over six weeks, but the disparity in numbers does not reflect our values. We have to do better and we will so that's him. That's that he, you know, he's not me writing a column in the New York Post about how the spare doesn't reflect our values. Those are his values that it disparity that his police department

In the light of this, our himself was saying: if only the darn nordic countries have only. I knew why my social distancing, policing isn't working. It is unfair. I could do something about it. I mean now. I guess you can get away with anything these days it in the world of post modern disease, but that, I think, is pretty pretty amazing. So with that We will bring our proceedings for the week to a close. Like I said, I e mails podcast commentary amazing that com, if you have guidance to give us about going forward. Thank you max. Many who have to run and foreign Christine able. No, I'm John put words. Keep the camel burning