Summer is that time for big honda savings. Our largest selection of new hondas is here said thousands with zero point: nine percent, a p r financing on the twenty twenty three reg line choose honda the most awarded brand in car and driver ten best history, civics accords H, R, bs CR, these passports, pilots and ridgelines all in stock for a great deal on a new honda search, a local honda dealer today. providing as it for horrified by his offer is not about one. I m, excited to announce the launch of unfiltered. The latest podcast from case file presents. unfiltered, has been in the works for a long time now it will be hosted I recall o Brien, whose extraordinary podcast silent waves was the show released on the case, file presents platform after getting to know rico and seeing how talented she is at interviewing people from all walks of life. I knew

that she had to have her own conversation, stall, podcast and thus unfiltered was born a podcast it provides an exploration into human experiences. No topic is off limits. These roar and honest conversations will open you up to a range of perspectives and invite you to got your own mind, although I don't hosted the show unfiltered several times with case file. The first episode features the first in depth interview, either given its along Chad and you get to know some things about me that I've never spoken about publicly rico the only person I felt comfortable having this conversation with the same and episode stars to kay witnesses from case seventy eight of case file that you're nobby family

for my? U S, soldier, just a lot and he's form a sergeant. John Dene join raquel to speak about their experiences in war and what it was like to blow the whistle on war crimes, future episodes a true a diverse range of guests from all walks of life. Some connected, the case file episodes all one of our case file present series, while others are completely unrelated, but all future real stories about justice and transformation. The first it who episodes are available now, wherever you get your podcast all subsequent episode, It will be released, weekly stateroom, to hear my interview with rico in full, be sure to head to the unfiltered fade to listen to the second episode hit. The follow button for unfiltered so Don't miss an episode.

In twenty twenty one I sat down and had a series of our long phone calls with the anonymous host of case file or casey. As I call him, The time casey, recovering from an unexplained medical issue. Chats reminded me of the power of real and rural conversations and pave the way for unfiltered, then the case, our presence podcast, where wake us from all walks of life join me, a conversation about justice and transformation in our first episode enjoy casey himself as.

generously opens a window into parts of his own story that he's never before shed in the hopes his experience, my rage, someone who needs to hear it. Thank you for joining me recall, o for our new show, unfiltered. I remember the first podcast I listen to it was, cereal by this american life- and I was instantly captivated by the storytelling from point on. I was hooked to put asking the medium You tell me about your introduction into podcasting and if there was a sure that you got hooked on way back when you started listening

yeah. So I do remember the first podcast I ever listened to. It was actually a music one, nothing to do with storytelling. Ah, it was in depth conversations with the bans and musicians at our luck. I remember me one of my good friends who was living with at the time. The first mention podcast to me had never heard of the word. For this was in two thousand, nine. Obviously Casting has exploded since then, back in two thousand on the options were much more limited, but I came across this podcast from alternative press. And they had interviews with bands again may bring me. The horizon saves the day many others bands that listened to and I ve never heard anything like it, because they were those in depth. Conversations are women. hours until just so engaged by and so drawn into the conversations it was so interesting. Listening to the ban, That you like, and does usually you limited to that.

when I in a magazine or sample it's a little clips here and there never had the chance to experience those in depth conversations and I was instantly drawn in so that was my first introduction. Then my next big love of podcasting came a few years after that I still remember the fight it was nick Diaz First bj penn was back in two thousand and eleven, is this- you ever see we're talking. You say yes, yes, to want to fantastic for this and do after the fortneet de eyes, one he was being interviewed by usa commentator Joe rogan, of course, and Diaz yells into the mark. Twain by day Joe rogan podcast boy not all day, and I remember thinking on his joy rogan of a broadcast. That's cool motion maybe check that out to answer been listening ever since then,.

So again, obviously conversational podcast nothing to do with storytelling or would documentaries Anything like that, those remarks first to podcasting loves this joy rogan, you were introduced to Joe rogan. When was this a time frame was twenty two thousand ends, I actually remember the fight. I looked it up. It's two thousand and eleven eleven years ago. wow and now case far was started in twenty sixteen. So there are few years between You fall in love with joy rogan, for example, his pockets. Sin then talk to me about. the inspiration behind you side, in case file. So I got me hoped into podcasting an old just loved it sam. It was always in the back of my mind, could I start Porthos and obviously my first ideas revolved around what I was listening to so interviews

conversational. Throwing up ideas of sport, podcast, music poured costs, and certainly nothing like case for But ultimately, I sort of new that I'm not really suited to that style like what you are doing, you're fantastic. Hosting and interviewer mean so much on europe but to do it but I'll just was it not just didn't. Have a clear vision are clear idea. There was a period there when Joe would have guests on and it was pretty much. Every episode where he was telling his guests started. Podcast, and this would it make around two thousand and fourteen fifteen before case, for so two thousand fifteen say And it was just drilling it into the guests and then that just always in the back of my mind that I wanted to draw up and then just listening to that adjusts became stronger and stronger. More just, remember thinking what council, I can do it

just and then I again looked at it seriously a lot. What what can I do? What can I offer that? There's gotta to be something that I can start and I think it was around that time when cereal I cereal might have been a few years before, while I'm not exactly a cant, remember exactly when syria was released in two thousand and fourteen twenty four days ago, so yeah certainly around that time so was light to the party with cereal. I didn't listen to that two thousand fifteen, but obviously was immediately taken in by the storytelling and that documentary stall of podcast, and that was a whole new thing for makers cause I've just been listening to the conversation interview, stall vodkas. I remember thinking. Well, that's amazing. So that's where my mind started, taking over this old really loved. To do something like that. I think of it. I could offer something there. So then, I was playing around with ideas like what would I do what I will do that documentary, investigative style.

but also I got hooked to it other the podcast hardcore history somewhere That time is well, maybe before god, damn carlin witches a single, no writer disdain carlin, just telling you a story, Surely those knowing the eclipses now anything else is just him speaking telling you a story that as well. is so engaging and just- pause, you win and you you know you petering. Were you listening to you think you're there? That is such that so captivating as well and so those a couple of options had that syria stalling negative approach than us. Thinking that I had the dang carlin hardcore history- and there What happened is suffered a serious injury. sporting injury, that serious injury I feel empty, got snapped the island that was a fairly long recovery and

I see always a long enough recovery anyway, after the surgery you looking at a good nor the twelve months before you back a hundred percent longer, really until you back fully hundred percent. that was made even longer, because I suffered dmz I'll tear as well. So I had to go to a neighbour ass for six weeks to let the m the yalta he'll before they operate on the ice seal was It is injury, and that was the back of a shoulder reconstruction which had had the year before and another need surgery not serious that year, Well, I just got on this run of injuries and surgeries and when I went to a bit of a dark place when I did the icy oh I would also just reward only talking about here what sporting, what sports, replaying that we're getting you some injured the icy Elam seal was a very, very, very low level game of rugby league. So another point

sport at any high level whatsoever, hoses dinner, so this than average battler, but everything I did and yeah, but you know ultimately doesn't matter how low level the game is still a context. Barton things can still snap and that's what happened so yeah. Got caught in a tackle, and tackle, went wrong and money went away that maintains close together and spied despite you being such a chill us down to serve, relax eu competitive on the field. Isn't that right, sir? in case. The field They not just on the field. Pretty much ado have. competitive strength, I'm not sure where it comes from in pretty much everything. I do what lawn favour somewhat all it s, probably fair to say it is vague factor, backed you being bedridden for six weeks. thinking about making a podcast.

Yeah. So that really. I never really thought too much about mental health until that time After that injury, I went to a really dark place and that's when are really really smacked me in the face mental health, That's what I really started, realizing different things about mental health and things that I'd bingo, through since a young age. and you know, understanding all the talk. Mental health, because there was, there was no chat about it, I call it a little bit of a new recall, but when you were younger growing up was that probably still wasn't them was certainly in recent times nor I very recently and when you say you were smacked with in your face for your input, my experience, but out in the world. What were you signing to say people talking about was it's suicide awareness for men, that was

Yes, suicide was bombed. Awareness was just but also just the yom united, the talk of the black dog and all that stuff. In seeking help being encouraged to talk about your problems and stuff, like that, obviously, that's very paula robbers, the hell, I was brought up more probably to how most people were brought up really in australia. Anyway, it was always- don't bird and anyone with your problems is socket up. Take it all in get knocked down, get up, carry on. Yes, absolutely. And that's when I just I just went to attack pisces, is never experienced. Anything like it was our holy shit. What are resisting a hall causes I knew what was in front of me again after just re having those couple of injuries I'm very diligent, with my rehab to the shoulder I used to do stuff at work with the bands and made sure I did everything the fiji I said, because I just wanted to get back to full health in an offer. As I said, I was implying Would it anywhere near any sort of a light level, but it was just as my hobby is my skype, sport fitness so just wanted to get back to full health,

I think you know I remember used to captured from people at work with the rubber beans and doing the exercises and suffered the friendly bianca, Not seriously. Can your imagine yes very diligently that just got through that and then a seal of got all my god, an idea just just slipped just That was the first time when I actually sought out help. I d gone spake to someone a couple of times this about different stuff. Was helpful and I realized I really needed to do so. There is no way because, with the shoulder surgery and the knee surgery. Prior to that as dillon as I was with the the re happened recovering the vizier. I didn't do much amen or binged a lot of series netflix and whatever else upon cos we had a lot of ice cream, their fast food, just dna, took it easy relaxed,

but I knew with this. I see also of at do something that this is no good. This is not healthy. So that's again, and where the podcast was. I will look. I've been thinking about this for years. At this point, it's probably time. Just I've got time now I've got nothing but time or get that six weeks of just waiting before they can even do a surgery for a non twelvemonth recovery. So it's time Such is the focus on something, and so with all those things that I mentioned before, listening cereal and arguably history, Joe rogan and everything else I decided end how true crime came about the obvious They cereal was the big one. Then, with the true grandpa costs it might be held, If the people to remember that back then in two thousand and fifteen there weren't any true crime podcast I mean there were a few as a handful. you can public animal one end, nothing what it is today, so

The cereal making a murder was also big on netflix around that time. Remember watching an order was always had an interesting to crime from reading books from one his young, so watching documentaries. You know. One of the first books are red, was helter skelter on Charles Manson. I also remember being hooked honor. They see seller vision, drama turkey, series, blue murder, right. I don't know it a blue murder looks at like police corruption in sydney in the seventies eighties. King nets, Roger Roger sin, Nettie smith, the matter of sally in hock, stab the shooting of police officers and durable, politicians, police officers, the older dodgy star that was going on back then, the real high level, corruption- and I remembered spain, hot on that series- and after watching that,

I don't think I'll. I don't remember when it was aired, but I'll probably watch a few years after it came out whenever it was, but I remember getting all the books. I could font on that subject: materials had books on raja, books, Nettie smith, MC dreary wrote a book in the balkans selling accepting just read everything awkward about that was is found it fascinating. Is that those held a scale tat. The west Memphis three case had an interesting in for for a long time as well. So different cases, those always interested in that we had cereal. Making a motor also was always there than interesting. True chrome and I guess that's what planted to save for a true crime, podcast united weren't, many true tromp log and our member listening to the few that were there and just though There really is space here for this day, Holland, hardcore history style of true tromp on costs, Just a single narrator, telling story. You know in depth. Research,

the ends. Let's try that found your name, it's funny you mention about the interest in true crime cause. I remember as when I was really young. We got fox tell House- and there was there- was a crime channel and I got so hope to the eye dear of life, forensic investigation, and there was a shortage of forty eight hours and following how the police would go about there situations in those first forty eight hours, and so I got really interested is so much, though, that I thought I want to be a forensic scientists when I was ten until I looked into little and figured out what they didn't out I'll just talk about it. I think I'll stick with talking about it pass a path, always looked on the same shows as well yeah, but the watched all of those other those wants that

let's talk about. Ok, so then you're sitting there and your thinking a case now's the time was the first thing that you do when you decide it's time to make a full costs, you stop what. How did you decide? What was the first it so? The first episode was the one, the beach murders- and that was the case I remember hearing about since I could even remember since I was a kid hearing about the one debates motors and are realised when I was thinking about will. Where do I start what case to look at? I realize that was a case that I had heard about so much my whole life and I could not tell you a single thing about it. Wow, and so I thought well I'll just stop there. Let's just look into this case and say what happens and yet involved in tracking down a rare out of print book, that was available in one library that one had to travel to, and I couldn't take it out of the library you had to look at it there because it was so rare cars and hunting down

newspaper archives and all that stuff, and just one out. Every factor could about the case. I had no experience riding so I cringe a little bit when I read those early scrapes adjusting god some people like them, but I do wonder if they're looking back through rose colored classes, they actually went back in recent and can son so about anyway that that the idea of a case file was certainly digested, lay the facts, yacht no opinions, no discussions just because the facts play state time. This is what happened. He is everything we could find widow. Have the one thing I really am but a fan of in documentaries is pretty and things something with an agenda.

I don't have the name any names or you know sure everyone has experienced documentaries at times when they're not presenting facts in an objective manner. There presenting facts the suit our agenda and that something I really wanted to avoid with case, for the be none of that These are just the fact that we can find. If there's conflicts Facts like in either the prosecution argues that offence, counterclaims with asian. We lay them both help. You, you decide, right, but you make up your mind or do you think happened or you you come up with your own theories. We're not here to tell you how to think cool. You know. this is why this couldn't be true because of this, and you should think this and this person couldn't have done it because of this. and I'm just not personally a fan of of them. In doing that, you avoid sensationalize thing the cases and I think that's what a lot of people love about case file is that

They can go into listening and it's not infected by people's opinions on such sensitive topics that we're talking about. I think you ve done that really well yeah. thanks forego. Definitely and then, when you consider its true crime, we're talking about is a real lives, real victims, real horrific things that have happened. I don't get me wrong. I think there is a place for discussion And stuff like that as well, no, this is not a critique of other podcasts or other documentaries that have that stall that clearly, this massively popular shows like that it just personally, that's not my style but I think there's room for everyone styles, but not so much the discussion that I have been here. with anyway, it's the the bias, the agenda The agenda driven presentation is so do what I'm talking about here, which are really don't like and so

That was something that was really clear from you from the start. Is that you didn't one case found to have an agenda. You went in making the podcast with that in mind from the start, the hundred percent, and what about the equipment? How did you know what to use he? It was literally a one man show her so much of course, the first few episodes So I had a divorce and a budget. One had a built in my on it and it was actually something I've got to play to plug your guitar in turkey get her up to the king. You know, so you can record on garage band, but then I saw that it had a mocking there. So I thought well I'll just use that plug. in recorded on garrard band. Had no one.

The water was doing on my nas. Had the microphone set down on a desk awesome. I wasn't even talking into a properly and just recorded and just tried to throw in some music from lock free music sites and tried to find suitable. to put under Nathan, their production was of a horrible. It was so bad and now, the benefit of some of the early comments. When I launched that first episode nor those first few episodes the feedback was, mostly positive. It was pretty encouraging actually this is really good content, but can you get someone to look at yourself? David. I heard there was struck do feedback. You know it's not like that hate mail that we get today it was really constructive, early feedback and am very thankful that for that to this day, those early list as you provided that cause. That's what

made me realize you get a hundred percent right. This is terrible. We have no idea what I'm doing, and I put it add on a freelancer website just foot or they never know what I was asking for, and what what who? What do? I, I have a podcast. I need help with sound or something was the ad have some basic ad and That is where that's, where my came in to the piazza. My king s he's been in early days, ran episode, seven or think. and there was about twenty or thirty people who responded to these ad. Having no idea what was asking for what also in four who are needed exactly just a scent than a five minute clip or something of an episode and said he is,

It's a clip! You just show me what you can do with it, and you know some people send it back. Some people didn't mock was one of the people who sent it back and it just. There was a clear difference between listening to what mock sent back and what everyone else sent back. This is like head and shoulders above what everyone else has done so just really studio and The time I was working for pinewood dubbing disney movie, sir, he think he just left. I think those The lack of free will satisfy all year. And I remember, reading that he's, He's razumihin like worked on disney films in this film, and that was that of can afford this. Let us hear to wade through qualified and others sitting in the spare room at my desk drawn up my these podcasts with the dogs backing in the background was it. There was a yeah the early problems trees.

Selling and birds in the tree in dogs bond. worn miles going and dumb. Yes, member talking to my going said he was interested as I don't really like. I don't have a budget as such and he said now I remember saying it's fun. You know lord of this started freelancing. The sounds interesting is different sort of work, podcasting of never, I don't think he even had listened to put car. at that point that into crime at all. Ny wasn't into no stone. But he hey he'd do it for ten bucks an hour just superman because I can afford us, that's good old sold, take it take more money. So that's how that started I what episode did might come in, pretty sure it was seven and I'm sure that was the first that precisely what

the really early days and what about for the riding side of things, since it was something that you didn't really enjoy doing. Is that right? It costs a lot of stress, or did you like the writing process? Do you, like writing the episodes for case file? I don't want it yeah it's just. I know my limitations with it, so maybe it's not as decide our enjoy. The writing is more than the researching in putting together the information I was writing a real. I am very limited with that. but also always going back to god had my few months of work and I was going back to reduce the hours, but then I slowly build you back into full time just what disaster re having the name at that point was only three months after the surgery or a few months after the injury, whatever it was forget exactly when I went back, bedtime the hours were was slightly building up and my time was running

and people were actually listening to this podcast than software of cars are suddenly remembered. Now was when I was back full time because it was around episode. Thirty, when I first got someone said to help with their writing. So I would have been back well and truly full time at that point. So the hours were very, very limited at this point, and I knew I couldn't keep going. How I was I needed help because there were times bad denard, not finish. Not chieftain is slight for three hours and wake up and have to work on the podcast, because starting to really get popular at that point by us Thirty, I remember being blown away when our eliza first episode of my goal was to get a hundred listens. Well, imagine if a hundred people listen to this sort of interesting. and I got that in twenty four hours, wow on the first episode The first ever said I remember being blown away by that. So well, could it get to a thousand I got two thousand in a week that was

Blowing mamma and at that point, and then it was just slow growth from there, but by the time episode thirty was out. Unit was starting to really be done with it Listen would obtain at that point. Maybe it was up in it. At the islands by that point, twenty thirty thousand episode or something so's starting to get popular yeah. You have that response It's deliver now because you ve got an audience. That's right, let just remember, bang under that much pressure and stress the disguise of will doing the podcast, but work was getting in the way. And yes, cause That's what I wanted to talk to you about. I wanted to talk to you about your, decision to leave stable. employment and partake on this journey of case file. yeah. I was very fortunate with work. Work were very supportive. Remember telling the boss about these poor, carson bees. Looking at me through squinted oz, I thought what

Podcast runner explain: amazon sat on the internet is a it is like. I can't wait to watch it. He here say. You're. Writing books on the internet or that he had no idea what I was talking about, but once he gandhi said around at the very supportive ends when it came Tom. thousand. Seventeen were really was taking off. That's when it was millions of downloads and have is crazy, and that's what I thought This is an opportunity that has presented itself through a lot of hard work to, but not this opportune Is he now? I would really like to try full time and work thankfully gave me twelve months of leave without pay. so it was a really big safety net there. I could take that risk trifles, say what happened and that twelve months went so quick.

Yeah. I remember when the boy, when one of the bosses call me said, might just going up stuff to come back to work of just remember, going well then realize a year could go that quick and I wasn't ready, as I had made a decision So I asked for more time I have another six months, my they said. No sorry We need to come back and then they looked at different things. I could die of cancer. bring offering stuff luck set dates It something I think it was at that time don't tell me I was but a set rostov if that could help, because they needed people right. But ultimately I do so well. For a year there's, no reason why can't work for another year or two a couple years and just keep going with it and see what happens remember, having conversation with a good night at that time, and he said you are crazy. If you go back to work,

these guys are very will encourage you, Yeah he's a very smart guy, and always trade is addressed politely and judges, He wasn't even a decision for emu. Just looking at me really mean I get back to work yeah yeah. I realized yeah this this opportunity here it's time to leave, work that stable employment and destroy this full time and say what and look. I wanted to know if there were any points through the process way. You stopped and thought wait a minute what the fuck have. I just done and thought about stopping what was that like for you with case properly covered, When cases it hit no world shot down. As I know what have I done, How did you push through that? How did you ever come that thought? Twelve? the wizard so do not grow

science and each lakers. Obviously we survive with causing dollars. That's what pay the bills and advertising like everyone else in the world when the pandemic hit really pulled out. The ads wicked cancel left right and centre is. I was just thinking about how long is this going to go on? the danube is podcasting done noon? I suppose some stressful days there, but ultimately it was only probably a month or two to get on track. And if you look at it and a lady of listeners, you can say a massive. It just goes off a cliff when the pandemic here billy yet for all sorts of reasons, obviously people's anxiety was through the roof is the well? ending what's happening. Gay people will no longer going to work, melons commuting no one's going on all eyes, no one's going to the gym. No one's doing anything. People are stuck at home and, I think the streaming services, the tv strings of says, went through the roof at that point in the airport costs went the other way

but it will, as I said, it turned around very quickly before us anywhere mean or mainly speaking from case, false point of view those were the only numbers always privy to then after a month to adjust the slyly came back on the other. The choices came back when they realise paper was still listening in it. Ultimately, from a bit of a shaky initial start that we were very very fortunate during the pandemic in the lock the answer, we could keep doing what we could do pretty much unaffected. Yes, definitely exactly do have that luxury, unflagging higher meant not being live as well. In the same room is people cause a lot of pope caused these days? Require you to be in the same room? Is someone to interview them and assure the show style? What about, though, your decision? to remain anonymous. Yeah in that came just to the style of the show that I wanted to do with that single The radar storytelling. Not having any sort of agenda

coming from any angle, boys or anything it. I thought that worked better just having a voice. disarming a voice telling you story person is- is not important. Just telling the facts, respect of victims, personality. I thought that suited the stall show. I wanted to do so now. I want with that. At the time. I wasn't expecting anyone to listen to this either does not like it was this massive decision and well thought out and had this plan that I'm going to be this anonymous house and how goods is going to be. It's going to add to the mistake of the show There was none of that possess. This was it's really a hobby to fill in time and to our and went back to work hundred people listening. I would have been happy with and in others expecting to maybe do a few episodes and yeah kyle tried that that was good, and now I'm back at work and the broadcasters done talking wasn't expecting it to take off

It has now become a bit of a thing: the anonymous hosting gavel, eggs Actually, it is a thing, definitely a thing. Combined with your voice. I ran at super mysterious soup, it was very unintentional What not unintentional, but am I was. There was a conscious decision to bay anonymous, but certainly wasn't expecting the shows success that we have had very thankful for that and right. Currently case files. Cloaked obey is six hundred million downwards. you're hitting now probably more old time. Yes I'll time download at six hundred million, so your destiny. Lay global, definitely global, and what I wanted to know what do You hope to achieve in covering these cases to such a large audience for me when were you when it started taking often getting

this massive audience, massive global rage, a real so an opportunity there to be able to help to help get fin These stories are unsolved cases. Obviously we don't just do unsolved cases. We do a lot of solved cases that two stemming from from early feedback, because the first few episodes of case far were all unsolved, and that was intentional. But then, with that feed back with the audio also getting Faye backlog now would be good to cover soul. cases to have you considered that in addis Ababa That's what people want to hear. We can do that. it will also doing unsolved. but for me and we have been able to do it- offer family members, loved ones, victims the platform to get their stories here to give them a voice. Definitely you have any don't done it so well. Are there any examples of case file episode,

its? Having helped to reach new witnesses on new information in cases their husband Few people that have reached out to me on past cases- that we ve covered with interesting information and stuff that I've actually forwarded to the relevant police agencies. Cramps opposite. well wherever it is in the world. What's come of it, I don't know certainly the case file hasn't solved any cases or anything like that, but yet it has been information that has come in and how beneficial that has been to him. the guys who knows because they don't you be faye back on that for our thanks- what they do with it, as, of course, of course, For me, I remember getting into case file file was the first strand input I listen to and was in twenty sixteen shortly after I listen to syria got into case law and I started with silk road.

I I remember going on reddit and it was like which case file episode. Should I start with cause by then you had like one hundred and blah episodes at one hundred and twenty or whatever, and I saw the silk road and I thought it was brilliant- the story telling and just the type of crime. It was the first time I'd heard about the dark web, for example, when this silk roads company that was like ebay in the black market. and then another case that really stuck with me was the gennaro be family about the U s! Soldiers in Iraq highly recommend people to listen to their episode and I was wondering fear, if any episodes. All these years that have stuck with you more than may be other cases, Europe, The hard won to answer, because I pretty much all do for a certain period.

When you working on them when you're according them, and they all stick with. You have some sort of effect, then, obviously with in many cases, sometimes a new case will then stick with you and maybe not so much the other one but they're. Always there the general be family, certainly one one that you mentioned. All of the cases that we ve worked on, where we have, in a view, famine. members or, or else family members spoke in a family members. They always stick with you that extra bit, because you just want to see a result for the family to have something happened in the case in a rest or break, something new witnesses whatever it may be. You want nothing more for that to happen for them. So A lot of the unsolved ones. Still stick with me.

and how do you go about when you are dealing with such heavy content and talking to a sometimes the victims, families and so forth? How you go about switching off from their home or being able to separate your personal life from your work life when it so it's yours involved in the process, right. It's hard researching was actually only yesterday. I was listening to a podcast and someone was talking about that. Someone who ran accompany saying it's not just going to work, The five and running the accompany you never syringe off the air and its much luck running, applaud costs that there is another switch off. There's no such thing as a day off, even on a day off What's the way, something in my mind was thinking about something stuff. That needs to be done to all the case file present stuff now as well, which we working on The other shows.

Hell I do drawn up some downtime is music is a big one, and fitness fitness Venus has always been a big part of my love for various reasons, but very what now training, This exercise at the gene running whatever jujitsu as well, which have gotten into in the last few years. It s a big one. I noticed a difference. I noticed a big difference during lockdown when I couldn't do jpg. I know I know, but also during lockdown. You did that David goggins challenge which remind everyone. Its way had to run. four miles every four hours for forty ours? Is that correct yeah? That's what this is about? Six and a half case for miles six and a half case so are managed to run those legs and another for

I had to get on a raw or elliptical machine and- You know the rules of the challenge that you can you don't have to be running. If you, if you don't run you gotta, do forty five lots of something. Sir, due to my always in big trouble drifting tat challenge at different times clean. My legs are just physically couldn't go anymore, say that's. Why had said, the jump on the roma and elliptical machine, and just because I wanted to Is it the matter? What sir I had this about some of the legs? I would like to finish it all running one year by year, still hard. That was good challenge. and for anyone listening really riddick. Has David goggins is renowned for pushing his body passed its own. Its limits in the usa.

Why? What what encourage you to choose such extreme physical challenge? That's what I'm interested in I guess I'll, just drawn to other, just because I know how much of a mental challenge it would be I am stuff like that, who you are you gonna, feel it? If you do not look for forty idea, does many have feet. You are what you ve done. There's gonna be applied. During a challenge like that, where becomes a mental battle because there is a lack of sleep as and everything you got sleep deprivation thrown in there as well, which adds to it and said on this really do Once a stuff like that, can you win the mental battle, the mental demons? I was telling you to come for all of us are hauled challenge, voice. In my head, saying where the fuck are you doing this on as they go back to bed, stop ok

you ve done is gone for twenty four hours. Now you ve proven whatever this we can stop million you and it's just baiting that voice really drawn to stuff, like that, and you were successful in it. You are also able to raise a sum of money that was donated to em pan the missing persons, a b c network, yet rumble or in our case yeah. I did it for for m, pin Encouraged donations from our listeners and listeners were very kind. We raised about six thousand dollars it's wonderful, they don't. I destroyed two mp and I gave up dates after every leg, just for the social media challenge through the so maybe a channels and courage. Donations and people are very calm with their donations, and you know that helped as well when you're out that struggling at three o clock in the morning going on around here, doing it for the people that aside for a good cause

Lauren, does such fantastic work and knows it was very happy to be able to help her out with that, and of unfortunate couldn't do the challenge issued you do an injury seems like a another one asked- it's not as serious as a sail mcl but yeah bit of an achilles problem and what's missing is tied to case file presents. I did one to focus a little bit on case file presents it's very personal to me, is through case file, presents silent waves, which is the show that I created with Georgina, said I was able to reach an audience that I could never have had imagined before that time and I am eternally grateful that case five presidencies and I wanted to know about why you decided to offer this podcasting platform along with case file.

Case, for our presence is something odd spoken to mark about for a long time, probably over a year at that point where we, We had this audience fortunate enough to have such a large audience and withal can. We do other shows cause I mentioned earlier, how that investigative stall was always of interest as well, and that being there many more true tromp costs. At this point, the lots of really great investigative stall podcast and we thought, could weaker eight something another platform network will production company? What can we do? And we weren't really sure we just gotta had informal discussions back and forth here and there are gay. We should do something, whatever it was always the sort of like it, and I do not like starting the port, it was an idea in the back. My head wasn't really sure how to do it, what to do what it would look like, which is just an idea forming

and I still remember where I was when I listen to silent waves on a run- I was looking- I was actively looking for other podcasts dislike. Are there other podcasts that have started like what is it? What can we offer? What can we do this when he is that's been created now, and I think he was just came across a reasonably on a google search latest prague castle. Really, you know forever, I taught the best podcasts, australia or something whatever The search for my dad was that the year I think it was something like that: you're the best newport costs, or something and at least came out. so solemn waves read the little club, was about so okay I'll. Listen to this sounds intense. It did yeah. And always on IRAN. This listening to an industry.

Bout, remember that coming to stop at one point on the rounds is going well. This is on the labour law. This is this is just so powerful and so well done. never heard anything like this before it just the brain. Ray the courage you and your family rights making that showed putting that out to the world and which will getting too how much that has helped other people. Adele literally stopped me in my tracks, on IRAN or stopped was sought to stop and take it all in so I was blown away by that. But then came local authority relates to what does not. anything. I can do to help that, but I just wanted to get in touch with yourself or Georgina just to let you know like me how good it was, how powerful it wasn't. The curry

you showed so I went to the website. Those contacts they now I don't think I don't think it said rule was for, although I don't think I know who all was contacting exactly but I'll just wrote an email and sent that through I was Georgina Jane, who write back, saying, thank you and that start a conversation. And I think I might have mentioned something luck in idea. of any other shows that Thinking about doing is there anything else you yeah, just sort of had. This idea of case far presents an georgina said, will actually we're looking for somewhere for solid waves, because we were with someone, you know that contractors, except it was still new. I think it was six months that you had a contract for when it was early. So yes said that, six months was over and you were looking for something and then that's when I thought but they're, not didn't really know how to approach it. One cause us to didn't know what the whole case file presence was going. Exactly and then oversea with the content of sound I voted for this.

coming in what you want to do, what about whatever, but yet The conversation them was introduced to you and we jump in the cool Yeah yeah. I personally couldn't believe it, because I remember. When we start making the pro castro dinner, and I we were off the people to sponsor the show will go in partnership with has shown it was a tough so, like I remember, going up to a b c so well, the story is that my dad is. child sex offender in my cousin was too, and this is my story about breaking. My silence in the room was like now. Just now, and I remember we really didn't have high expectations, kind of came at the conclusion that we were just going to do it on us on our own and see what would happen and then were lucky enough to land punish it with nearly media who were with before you when

we were when we had were in partnership. I remember One day that we were recording, I dunno some off to show a thing if we were to an extra episode and The man who was part of the nearly media came up to us and said ah, apparently case file has listened to your podcast. Apparently their fans of your poker say case farmville egg, wait. What now impossible impossible, and we even thought should we should be sending a mount a case for my should we should we do that And I remember me b, we had sent an email, I don't think we did, or maybe the man said that they would send an email. He would send an email on our behalf. Nothing ever happen from about and I was of course not. I mean it's case file, so when you got in contact with ass? I literally could not believe it, as I know, no, no way

and then I think, that's what's so incredible about case file presence. It gives a platform to people who otherwise would think that there was No chance. Do you know what I mean Yeah, that's really what case file presence is all about is giving people a platform when you Tell me that story initially out, I blew out because always on the others going out because it was straight away or sent that aim our listen to it, but it's not like. I came from a mouse right away. It was a good month, a modern being longer than that before actually sent it, because this sort of one of the process that a bit and think about what I wanted say and during that time remember. There was quite a few it was all god look. I won't send it like that they're not going to care some of the podcast saying whatever you know, look they're not going to for myself. I was thinking the opposite to what you were. Thinking

wow vows see this is this is why I am. What would you say for budding podcast? Is that I think making a show and the opposite, unity to have their show unqualified presents, for example, let's talk about that. Really soon probably all the clashes in the world but they're all kind of true lot. You just gotta. Do it Do that's your case. All started was just doing it. You gotta take those steps in doing it and realize does not gonna be instant successes. There is so much work that goes into it. For on talking out particular style of broadcasting, the cat- It's present shows you know yourself creating solid waves. What is involved in a limited run series is a lot of time. A lot of work, there's drafts and second drafts and third drafts and legal checks, and can fortune carts and additions and re records and postpone action and search

is our lot a lot of work. It's not easy. Just go into with anyone who does not gonna be easy, but any on. Podcasting is a lot different too. When I started case fallen, there is a saturation of podcast but there's no reason why you still contours, there's gonna, be competition now, so this probably a greater emphasis on having really good content that stands out, but can still be done and as someone who has done it, what would you say your favorite part about this korea in podcasting is they just being able to work with. So many great people, like yourself, recalled that the case fall. Everyone on the team, this being so fortunate to put together such a great team of great peoples, a pleasure like it doesn't feel like work? It's. There is a lot of work. Involved, but it doesn't feel like work.

and it's just you know it's a real privilege. Thus all were old. Trying to reach right is to find something to do that doesn't feel like work sites. It's wonderful, that you found that think. There's another old cliche on that is the movement, then you to work Daniel off or whatever it is. and the old sure about that the thing with cliches and before we move on from case file. I do want to say congo isolation I, as you know, really admire you and what you ve done with case found what you continue to do with case file. As you said, it's not easy and is important to remind ourselves. and everyone else that focusing isn't just final production. We don't pick up a microphone record and that's that no, since can take years

is at times like hell, you did. You are consoling wives for was a couple of years, two years, exactly as it gets, important and the quality as he was saying of everything you ve done with case file story telling in a way that doesn't sensationalize is a lot harder to do. Then one imagines sooner because it's very easy to jump into sensationalism in especially in true crime, storytelling, sir. Congratulations again. I do want to know I guess, after having achieved such an incredible amount with case file. What do you hope for the future of the show? Just that we can continue to deliver quality content and continue to help people continue to give a platform? for people for case for peasants and just take getting better kate working hard, not getting ahead,

We ourselves not getting it waded egos, and here that we should, I think, anyone doubts on the telling us what such a great team to work with iran's down to earth super chew and that and that's not easy to do when you ve got people like Steve Martin, giving you free promotion on talk, that was crazy tide it'd be about that cause. That's amazing. I thought it was a joke like a place. And then I just refused to believe it This is like some pr campaign. They ve picked out a few topsecret podcast. And they, given the cost member one just to help promote the shovel. Whatever was very cynical. Just because he was such there is such a message, does are grew up. Watching movies loves Dave man, I just couldn't comprehended

but then, when I saw his interviews and saw what it was actually saying and restore about writing the bark and Emily episodes you listen to what this certain points. Some argue that so many absurd we would have had out then about nationally does less than the case one well efforts. the whole team was like what crises pretty cool Another that show to only motives in the building cares. That's a good choice who are recommended yeah yeah. It's it's wonderful and he's the only celebrity I remember one of the writer was telling me about story about Daniel Radcliffe. Can you show that one another one that I didn't believe also come on and near the dugout sent the running. As audio of the interview. I think it was a written article, at some event and podcasting something came up and he rode off a few of the poker. these favorite podcast study was listening to and in case file was one now

another large mind blow what really then you're Radcliffe listens and- as a former team member was in new york and happened to come across him at a cafe. I believe it was his and she said well, you know. You don't get this opportunity every now and then on this gonna go for it and she just went out, threw himself on the case fall of blue and I believe you listen he's out. Your hair love case phone place for a photo and stuff fire has pretty cool brisbane. None to quote a few celebrity shouts and of my mind, is blown at all of em, whose creasy taken had something on inside graham one day that just blew up our account eight mckinnon was on, I want to say Jimmy felon. Gave us a shout out on their which was huge waste. for that you didn't ask anyone today, this free marketing, there's all vain

and that I love singers from bands and and musicians at eleven, a stranger australia who have said that they listen, which has been super cool as well. Music a few times in our conversation and talked of it you, you have a specific type of music that you like talk to me about that list tell me three bans that you like. Please only three no favours The top three that's hard. The style of music. I listen to. It is a day. Listen! I do appreciate a lot of stalls by my by vert styles, punk and heavy metal, I'd say and sir that nineties, the naughty install of that exploded with green day offspring, not known for those two album smashing duty that created this whole thing that

when all was becoming a teenager, and that's just that got me hooked on this whole donor of music penny was now affects, strung out, o old. I sort of bans from the nominees lag wagon to this day there are still love and many more hundreds of bans and then with the metal metallica huge when I was younger and still love them to this day in system of a down near against machine bans like that yeah, and so it is on a soup, would be heated fifteen hours evolving through all the beans and musicians at I love that need, as just a little snippet parkway drive Another middle ban that I love I don't know I don't know parkway, DR personally, but I as from generally or if they are, they are there. Also aside, speaking of growth and stuff, that's really thing take as our got into them when I first came out and has just said

being so interesting, saying that growth has been awesome because one First saw them, it was in a local. But there was fifty people their whatever so now, Head stadium, too, was around the world and this Take a war showed that they put on and just saying that growth over the years as this painful nominal varying sparring. Yet on the work that they have put in really cool, really cool, to follow a banned from the grass roots and see them just become so insanely popular but that show I'm talking about the pablo manage to get on the mark. Briefly, the surface the front missing is held. The market for part of a sullen on yelling into the microphone would sounded horrible, no super, there you go to same its massive stadium shown epic show, that I put on fireworks firing in I'm not letting on stage anymore and foot

Fortunately, not probably a good thing. Best for everyone on. built. It will we back shortly. Thank you. Supporting us by listening to this episode. Sponsors. It's me buster and I'm back again for their dog days of summer alone on deck, LISA, new, twenty, twenty three, a laundry zeal or venue s yale early june. Twenty about flaw dash highlight dot com, blog local name. You can trust you can with research into the map, is most ten you needed at the moment for new funding. For my part, I think so that we can do together in the office can be combined. Sitting has offered its mind equally one. Twenty two and three, the blacklist with that of the summer, is running a helicopter.

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filter to continue to deliver quality content. We ve covered case file, your professional alive, how you got involved in true crime, but have you I have been personally involved in a crime, When I was seventeen hours throughout much energies are worked at a popular, fast food chain, global train and there was one particular night now seventeen of the time I was doing the wash up shift, which is at the worse. If the vote on it sought what you were literally washing dishes, literally washing dishes, And I remember this particular not well too days off at this restaurant, it requested dissolve cause. Yet things coming out, we had to go through marriage. I had to say to me: your own shift and remember getting lucky this. Not those are really good manager on new, very approachable, friendly and southall duty to

it's not going to put those dating and remember, remember the noise. well that was multi times, whereas luck, okay I'll, go see the manager now with those dates, but then something would come up. Someone else would come up with more staff or get interrupted some other way or honor actually I'll. Just finish this little thing and then I'll go, and this has happened over the course of. However long then finally, there was a bright cause like now is the time I went to the manager's office so had my back and was standing at the door talking to the manager and available data, shows you pull the book down now felt something in my back something heating. My back multiple times someone sank down, get down, get down, Well, so it was a joke loves. A fellow were calais, carrying on doing something or turning around thinking what the fuck are you doing you idiot and it was a gun pointed at me. I can't gun ends

That's when we realise this was very much. Not a jug get down get down absolutely straight down. Parried. My head did us all told He ordered the manager to open the safe and fill his bag with the cash which she did. She did. A great job was calm held her did ass. She was told, followed all of his instructions and Yeah? The one thing I remember about it is: he was so calm. it was a season, the crook. This was deafening, not some dinner, opportune lookin for a quick fix, he was just cause I mean control. There was no yelling nice screaming losing his temper. You get down. You opened the safe fill a back cone hurry up hurry up. Talking like this, where supercool control, in control completely varying control, and I was dismayed manager in the office- and I was absolutely

Shitting myself had myself had one was among these on the ground had buried lead place to achieve the gonna die very scary, and then, but once the bag was filled, he said wrought candle. Hundred, don't move has gone up, happened sites like that yet and I think I counted to about one thousand, eight hundred and fifty six or just make sure that he was really really gone There's a manager. Actually you can get up now he's got got scared, and is obviously still in shock, because I just got up and went back around to the wash up room and kept working. Just don't quite process what just happened, really didn't go home after that. None are kept working until obviously that call the police and then the storm and age or in the higher up some leaves a storm You came in came around and saw me this. What are you doing stop?

relax will fade blood because our does this Our response, told us what to do in shock. but the police came went to the police station gave a statement one Wake later they got yet again. They think it was the same guy. He went back above all, we got ten grand cashed different location or the same location na I'm restaurant at wasn't on shift. When he came back awake later but When I was there, I believe it was ten grand he got out of the safe, and I think was a similar number the wake later when he went back and got it again. It was morning he was time when, when all was there and then Later he went morning early morning, but they think it was the same guy never caught him. and was he didn't mention? Was he using balaklava was his face covered? There was

something going on, but a really don't remember I'll just remember, saying the barrel of this gun and that's all around us where my memories are. No, there was something going on with these face. I don't think it wasn't a balaclava, but it was like it there's. Maybe a hood or something pulled over whatever it was it yeah I'll just be is that the robust statement actually causes with no. What exactly are data back then cause it's hard. Nelson nilly have a longer. Was several decades I'm trying to think back. But I do remember that gun, a year and guns a terrifying, I mean living in Brazil, you know I'm exposed to so many more. And Then I then than industry is sometimes you're you're going pass a police car, for example, they ve got there their rifles sticking out of the window, sir the gun in your face. You know things like that, but see being a gun is surplus.

super terrifying. No, as inland being confronted with a gun on thy and being he didn't was over They began their. Let's go back my back. exactly turning around and saying it yet very scary, That's that's near death experience, basically eve You ve been touched on the back with the barrel of a gun. at the time. Yeah thought, because you know, like you, didn't you on the ground, the head buried, hands listening to the money being put in the save the singing argues in it shoot a slower, what's gonna happen here No, it's like promoting their there was. Now that we are getting more personal. I was going to say that the world, those whose case here simply anonymous, but we have had many conversations about the possibility of you.

sharing parts of your personal story. how thinking. We could start with the health scare that use sit around this time last year during the pandemic. What can you tell me about that? What happens here? Speaking of near death experiences that that was one but wasn't really, but it felt like one sir People may remember last year, twenty twenty one. We had to take labels for weeks off five weeks off something like that. expected laid, you don't think a message may have gone out with about my health or something So I had just finished, recording an episode, don't remember what episode was, but I just finished recoiling and after recording an episode along together june. So that's where I was headed, had the coal into the post office? First, so I remember driving to the post office thinking. Since then I forget,

Jim said, I understood what fear but then you know you starting in come on, don't be soft david Gordon Video start going through your head Oh yeah right, so I got remembered pulling up at the post office car parking getting the package. I had the post. And so vivid the memory walking to the post office are thinking why the fuck is this each so heavy. It wasn't a heavy packaged. Also. This feels so heavy what's going on this remember and then standing in the post office or just remember feeling a bit scattered, noddies haze, heavy pack, that wasn't. Heavy in Deborah had to do the post office walked back to the car suez. Thinking. Maybe we should just drove. I started driving towards the gene, but it was still in my head like now. I don't think I should go today.

but before I had the chance to turn around, I just had to pull over is just film something inside the described the feeling, but I just had to pull over. I knew something was wrong. Horribly wrong. Many people I got out of the car struggle I couldn't really walker somehow stumbled to god. I am as a sort of farc the my left arm was. Is tingling, pins and needles. I had this massive tightness in my chest couldn't stay and I couldn't talk business. Our members, in the gutter. Looking all these, going blind because a relatively busy road This thinking well fuck and placed her doll. I gotta on this. For a while, I was right always thinking I thought I was gone, the other gone. I voted with a heart attack.

so as I was on your left side, that their pet, the tinkling left arm, left, left arm. Tingles this massive time as my chest and Just remember looking at these cars just thinking or help someone help, but not like. I was just on the Gaza I was driving. Biologist would have looked like someone sitting in the gallery, that had just remember thing is: you know: there's no real, for any on the really stop, so them certainly no being critical of it But just just remember thinking like a fox up. It's like help help I'm dying Why and are managed to get my phony up and luckily I someone was able to come and pick me up and down. Exactly remember what forgotten the cat

or something other than I for explain what was happening. I've been told light at her. She thought I was having a heart attack like there was a little bit. for it. Ass. You go straight to a medical center of gone in a doctor's. Looked at me. They called any imbalance cycle. we have twenty say J machine and remember the amber looking under the paramedics signed it. Yet yeah. This is, you are having a heart attack. wow. I remember thinking. Well, that's at least Oh, ok, that's relay for that. There's paramedic see it as a doctor allotted not dead. Yet this is, going on for a wallet, hopefully communist survive. This goes wasn't sure that state and I've injected, maybe something in whatever they ve done. I've gone to work on me and then a cool. I think there s a J must go to the two hot specialists that hospital and I pulled the paramedic or vice versa.

And said knots not out attack for a false, positive thing or something so there it's been relayed to make are actually the specialist reckon, that's not a heart attack. It's the something else going I was still a little bit blurry, but I know going to hospital and was there for hours? I ran over tests in did blood tests All the tests showed that there was another attack the real explained what it could be. Some decide, womb, okay, so so does get home now look so the story doesn't fewer there was no one hears bad is what it was when the pull over, but remember tat, the doctors are or what. But this what'll I do like us, still filled not quite goody. But I said: go home and come back. Basically, if I have to say, went home slept the knife I got the next morning- thinking I think, I'd better. I think of it like

during the campaign had subsided by then. It's still there, but not as strong, though still like a twine as much as there was still something going on my left arm, but it just wasn't how it was when I had to plug the car lot. Where I couldn't stand and look my head, the world was spinning So I remember getting in the car and driving all just had to quickly drive down the street. I didn't even get around the corner and started again exactly what happened the day before. Just like the world started. Spinning again, it started to get more intense, won't fuck had the ever again back to hospital and back through all the tests again and again, gotta. Look! It's not a heart attack is not at all. The tests of wine

but so you you're good to go home, but then I was booked in to say a heart specialist just in case so over the next few days or weeks, whatever it was when indeed there was three tests I had to do with specialists was, I forget what they're called now, but nationals was hooked up to a machine for twenty four hours when they check How rhythm, then I had to go in and get on a treadmill and gophers as long as post but on the treadmill whatever, did there and they monitor the hard, and there was something also had to do in all the tasks. What made you a perfectly fine, your heart is fine. There is nothing wrong, and was that confusing, feel very, very confusing because otherwise, pride myself on being healthy, indefiniteness all that stuff, a curse, darn a perfect, but I do try and Look at what I ate most of the time, so a relatively healthy most of the time

and this is very confusing, although how am I in then started thinking about my step. Dad died of a heart attack, suddenly he's only pretty young early fifties, obviously does not. A blood connection there over other tree connection with it being a step parent, but to start a thing, No trying to make is it is sounds like as other lived with, must have that since our young, so like is what is there some in. I start to think all these theories of new mind go while I was there is something that we ve been exposed to love was, I won't what's going on, I'm gonna drop dead any second! Basically, because I remember hearing Step that went through a few different things are done. I've ever experienced anything like that, but where He when he was saying a heart specialist before he dod, just because of different things that were going on that were telling him the same thing: there's nothing wrong, you're perfectly healthy and then he died.

Only one day so tat he had died on the back of your mind is year, some thinking well pretty much any second, I'm just gonna drop dead, an orphan budgets. its detail was living law for a couple away said is thinking well yeah, that wasn't until the test, came back over the next couple weeks and then I say: I'm a drop dead yet gas. So that's it us, but also that experience of the darkness of it ass in the arm has gone away in that time. that's something that I had experienced for a very long time. He might laugh for pretty much as long as I can remember not certainly not to that extent. Yes, obviously that said sort of all came to a head in that moment when I had to go to hospital but at various points for as long as I can remember my life of had that so.

Pins and needles entanglement, shooting up the arm and really taught in the chest- and you know I just put it down to stress at work now I had been to the doktor a few times over, probably the last ten fifteen easier, not maybe two or three times they got to the point where mama I'm just gonna, go to the medical center and remember feeling about the world's biggest hypochondriac, does it that's hard to explain? seeing the doktor then doing others asked what what's your problem of improve bud she's good, these you healthy fit whatever, not yet that let these tingles and tiresome so yeah that happened a few times the amendment of certain periods in my life or offer Fatima gonna drop dead Some point is this early signs of out of her love? What what is going on, but then

It will go away after couplet eyes when very strong than a day at work or something and bbc in stressed in, oregon has come back a little bit now, it's going to you know, that's what just get back to the gym fitness ticket. You know a powerfully. Will aid our way out of this room, healthy food and fitness and we'll be right, something eight, an exercise your way out of it. It's funny, though, because I know it when you speak about. the tingling in the left arm and this pressure on the left side of your chest. I know exactly what you are talking about an answer at certain points: I've question through the years. Why is this a hundred? that position, google, it it is in sight, and as for me, would get so bad at some points not to the at where I would feel like. I was dying, but where I couldn't lie on my left side, for example like it would stop me from lying on my left side, because I would feel like that the pressure would be

am unbearable and of say four may the route of that was traced back to my childhood, and I was wondering for you if you, if ignited any memories of your childhood or anything like that year. Naturally my mind when you a minute when we're having that conversation that you experience that same thing, because I have for seventy years was just putting it down to work stress something some other problem that yes, when I found that out from you, it said so you and, as you mentioned, that all other audience I mustn't have been during a lockdown because I was going to the gym, but it motivated him, but I think it was between the lockdowns lingers between the first lock we had in australia and the second one and

did struggle a bit during that lockdown. That's when soda went to some dark places again mentioned after the injury had put me to a bit of a dark place and the locked in no luck, probably most of the world, put me to a bit of a dark place as well, and just some things from the past really started coming back stuff that are repressed than is buried in For so many years, and it just started coming back the lockdown, for whatever reason the heartening anxiety, whatever was really started, to bring it back Ends the essentially. What happened is where, I was ten. I did it you're in some abuse as a child, sexual abuse, from an old, a kid essential So just leaving not sure he's going listen to this about. If anyone who knows me use listening was not done by Family member or any

who you would know if you're listening just to put that at rest straightaway decided mines are wondering. But it was essentially an older neighbourhood. Kid you a lot of people. I looked up to and you know it's a cool katie does you know this and that and has a cool black and is a bit older, but is hung around with the younger kids? So, but still a kid. Young person himself, certainly not at all, and I mentioned this: the the waves and how that stuff to me my tracks, it was what was really the big powder. That was the grooming, because, although, although our experiences were very different, the grooming, the grooming, is what really stood out and that's when it written real look back in it now, as I said, are buried for so many years and has tried to justify true. nah. He was a kid too, so it's not important know doesn't count just slurp, whatever just try and laugh it off and pick whatever experimentation

but when I look about went on when I actually when it came out or when it came back to them, surface for whatever reason, during lockdown, after repressing for so many years was the grooming and just thinking back How it all happened. War I was tom, is still very clear, even those tenant, I still remember very well. You know, bullshit that you are told and the the bra hubs that you are offered and the the stories you're being spun about. Well, what do you think that your dad and his friends do when they have barbecues and they hang enough? They play golf, and so this is just what happens, but don't tell anyone you should obviously that should have, been a massive alarmed, oh, but you know We think that you hit yeah exactly you, the you try not to think about when your ten, too big clear, as well, grooming being the web of manipulation, the process of manipulation. If anyone doesn't know the word, grooming would be the yeah

The process of manipulation- remember it how it started. You know offered this that lollies footing for because whatever it was inter being told dies, lol as about who this is what your dad does. This is what your dad's friends do. This is just what people do unison said it which, in itself cassettes kind of kind of gifts, thus the impression that the kid the oda That was doing it to you. Perhaps his father was doing it to him or someone else, someone warm in it's interesting. They said this is what you done. Does I guess thing on actually never thought about it until just now whether that is it inside into where he may have experienced it because likely you did. Well, here's in law school at the tunnels in primary school, but still enough of an age gap, I definitely s looking at them. Thinking yeah. Ok, mrs fucked up what happened, but I also tried to justify all these years, this by saying. Well, that's not.

really is not alone in this kind of luck,. You tried to really was yeah yeah massively tried it's not it's not abuse, I'm not a victim, none in it, and I remember you know it happened a few times and then way drifted apart or whatever I think now he moved away and never spoke to him and then, when I got into hoss, go myself. Obviously that's when you get into high school when you start being introduced a few more things in the world than might be different. Now, with the access kids have to the internet, but certainly back, then it was. Like. How does this whole new world of staffing? information that you being told him in moscow and coming into your early teenage years at that point and When, obviously,. Things were brought up and then you learn about different stuff, and then paypal does make me think back of how homophobic society was

then come a long way, but the young, the gay jobs than the gate orbit. then you're at this and you're that and when I got to hospital guess is when I realized how fucked up that was what happened: and fuck and adjust. Wasn't straightaway, so whatever was in towards any seventeen year. I document whenever it was. I just I just I just killed me just completely me and how did it? How did it impact your interactions with people? From that point? I was bad luck, I guess only outside that does nothing really going on on the outside. I wasn't. Acting out or what we're doing anything like that really obeying volunteer anything actually thinking back, I mean there were. There were a few incidents where I said some regretful things could probably be a bit of a dick at times or whatever

Let me again very young recently, twelve at this point is coming into our school them. Just the ADI incident here and there, but then very weekly, just kind of withdrew quite shiner. It was all internal, I was all internal, it was just this fuckin warmth, rage and emotions and die And craziness going on inside, but on the outside of the thought, quiet, mute what year was very intrude very introverted I remember that from that's. For sure, though, I did struggle to talk to people giving it in front of a class or something falcon forget it. It's just because I still remember the thoughts back then was but people gonna know people gonna find out, find out. Fuck looked at me, a teacher, a fact is tat, you know what happened. Get it, but I went to account makes you wasn't like over the top strict by was still strict enough back then, I suppose

Fuck you gotta Helen, get kicked out, school and psychological warfare excommunicated from the world or whatever crazy, though ourselves thinking back, then I don't know, but it was just like a resistance paranoia this anxiety of the Everyone knew just kids like I couldn't could bear. Would function was or was functioning Do must go work and stuff, but I also wasn't in a way it's kind of to explain. No, I get it. I get it you! You are functioning to these two functioning in society of it's like internally, its psychological warfare, as your explaining really is I am wondering cause. I know for me when it happened to me. I I specifically remember why. King on the foreshore and promising myself I repeated

ie for an entire walked that no one would ever find out. No one would no one could ever find out that I would hold this secret for the rich My life is that was that was this decision. I made at fourteen years old that such a serious decision did you make a similar decision, as teenager as a key or a hundred percent yeah largest men are being there like just saying that paranoid of anyone ever finding out what happened, discuss it, the shame its indescribable the powers of that shame and how much it affects your life just just couldn't largest. When I just really started trying work comes from the repressing of it. Like this didn't happen, lotus just didn't have just ended, but always cotonou was there in the back of a london,

well and years, our struggle without for liquid wall, I would say so when school finished up. That was a remedy being a big relief like made it Ella there. No one found out. I can leave that part me behind and just move on and be an adult and go out into the world, and it was just like this is p at school. This fear is shame images such powerful emotions and is already enough going on at the law school anyway, your task manager That's where music first became a big outlet for me, So what I want is for the first time getting into the bans, are to this day, love and move forever love and playing the game, are as well myself and you know it. Never

wedding bands or anything else, had a few sort of mockery and sessions with friends in the garage or whatever, but never played in a serious band, and but it was just such a such a release like a safe haven, Playing a guitar listening to those beings as music that was so influential at that time anna was one nirvana Metallica grandiose ring blink went through all these bans coming out. They fell in love. With this, of music yeah. It was huge. Some music was something that help to get through. What about exercise? not so much back then. No, Who played sport as a kid football and cricket I remember, as has always been an average football player, but it was probably ok cricket for a period of time.

But are a member that really affected the sport as well as just the psyche, just the stuff that was going through a went from being. Ok, doing, ok, suggests thing, fucking useless, basically yeah. a dismal mentally of was not there not just couldn't just with sporting and everything I just. I just had such a greater effect him some people. I guess I've read and heard bedsores where they use that and they're able to channel that. To the sporting endeavours. Another endeavours and stuff for me is the opposite of this. what is basically yeah? Yes, I'll stop playing football, pretty young actually and picked a backup later it later in life. So when a good answer. Early, I think I start playing again forbid, but kept playing cricket, but is just.

It was just that again. Never it was never at a high level, but our guest is a one. Something that I had jones but a glimpse of glimpses of promising at times and asked to try out for breath gods and staff, and it was at that time Is this really starting to this? Now this is, I can't function and it's it's inch, thing that you say that I have also read where people able to channel there. Oceans into like sport as a medium. For me, the same thing happen, with ballet ice, the dancer Jane, when everything got too much, I explain myself as a bucket that started. Spilling over. You knows I waited for when everything's spilling over and ballet was the first. I thought I could

be there any more and that environment is because I couldn't I couldn't concentrate my mom was everywhere. You know couldn't focus any more on that so its interest in that you say that normally. recently that I started taking up dance again. As he said, you got back in it after a break yes, you're, lucky shrilly, interesting. The different ways that people can channel at and an approach it out. We ve by experience the similar thing were not being able to function, but other people just use it to drive them the success, especially all the way to do so, the top of various fields, sporting and others, but there's no right or wrong way that everyone experiences things differently it so true, once you left school. You got that's. Ok, I got through school no one year, gray, secrets kept, nay out of school. What happens

so continued working at that fast food chain after school and just was I came from sort of like a. There was a strict upbringing, spuzzum, not strict in the sense of what abusive bit of its creation like in terms of school, a career, and this is also wanton. You need to have your life mapped out and know what you're going to do by the time, you're, seventeen or whatever of the time you're finished school. So. Yeah there's gonna like well. you going to uni. What are you doing doing this, that the defence force or whatever else, and that so went with the career? At that point, I went through this studies and then into the career, and I just did that. Basically,. I said we went back to sport in during those only twenty years, just socially nodded and you just community support not at any high level, but that was good

and did get into a bit of hard hard binge drinking at that time. So I guess after high school, that was Like the coping mechanism in a to go on the drink, not every day, so it certainly like you know not what, if you think, you're going, every day. Always peace certainly wasn't that, but it was just thought when I went out or when I had there was no the thing is a few quiet drinks yeah and that, and so I guess that that was a bit of a battle for a couple of years, not battle woman, I don't think it ever really. affected. My love to negatively that always it's not a healthy habit to completely right has so far as much as possible Although again thinking back, you know that, while there wasn't violent criminal acts There were the instances of this. He had miss having a bit this being a bit of a dick

again saying some pretty regretful things. This in paypal cost a couple of friendships. Just Judas stuff said, while blonde drunk. Probably cost a relationship as well, not from really anything were particularly said or did budgets the behavior. I guess again look. not criminal, no volund, not a busy. Just it's not healthy, that heavy binge drinking running itself off like that, but during those years when you are experiencing when you're drinking- and that became the lead were the memories still haunting were you able to block it out less less. So at that time, but it was still obviously drinking to forget that as well, because they'd still come up, I would still come up like fuck what the hell did. I let that happen. How did that happen? Lol? What

Still there just not as strong as I were, that as the years when on but still oversee, went back to that guild in shame and feeling sorry for yourself and all that stuff, and just sorry, hello, let's get fucked up never dabbled in drugs was always alcohol. That's a positive fergus now that I'm anti drugs, but on no luck there wasn't healthy, but also with the without So would have definitely good had you know, certain circumstances present themselves? Oh, you know you zig when you should his act in life and that gets presented or whatever that could have got pretty ugly. I think, but it did work fee for certain point of time to be able to continue to function, as you said, and continue to prison.

in itself in everyday life. That was what you need to do at the time. When did that change into something else, I probably still would obtain around that time in that sort of early twenties period were really started to get into the fitness side of things, even though the binge drinking was still strong. Was also starting to china into the fitness and is a challenge and one or two you know you write yourself after four o clock in the morning, get up and go the gym one or have not got that as of that's on a really got heavily into the fitness ought as well. We found that to be very positive outlet, much more positive than binge drinking, obviously, but with the binge drinking stuff. It wasn't like us the working full time and when work,

was work because there was no drinking guys know days off and stuff, but yet the fitness was a big big thing for me for sure ran, then probably around Maybe that mid when he's period I have been a little bit later, actually discovered across fit. You don't care about cross fit called member, yes, very So I was very, very into crossfit again, not particularly good at it, but just It was just that outlet because it was so intense the exercise. and you know when I really started getting voting toto's training mould. Times a day and while lawford if the round work and working out, basically

not very smartly, either, because because I loved it so much is training so odd and after training. Feel so good and you not thinking about any of these other things. you tried to run away from it in your life, just wanted to keep doing so trained to times a day. three times a day when whatever just trot looked up like a light programmes that they, like top level lifelike, spoke were following and transport. It came up with that doing. absolutely zero recovery work and wage, Yeah yeah, I know looking after my body at all, just train, train train and then do look at five. Second emmy stretcher. The unlucky yeah great again the year that became my outlet that's end, It's. I really resonate with everything that you're saying I'm in

interested in understanding? What made you break the promise yourself that you made to not tell anyone and tell someone that was that had to do with whatever came life went on it became. less and less so we started got to the point where I wasn't then really thought about it. I never really thought about it any more. What happened decide came down at least not at the forefront women and was obviously very odd, successfully buried it. yes, let us when you had buried it, where you telling yourself that you had overcome it, yeah, ok, yeah, I thought is done wherever it is buried. It's gone it was just kids being kids, it was an abuse of it. It's fun. Let's just move on we're done we're done, but I guess I was still thinking about it- cause I'm still trying to justify, but I thought I had overcome

but then, for whatever reason, still remember, lock the energy that income, things are already the anxieties levels of everyone to what's going on. I just came full get to know it just hit me massively out of nowhere yeah and then that was a struggle that was really struggle and a trial. deal with that then I did meant The tingles in the chest, pain that are experienced constantly threatened off I'm off that was of a sea. I think that's what happened that day in the car, that unaddressed. Childhood trauma just when dying. And I ll forget when it was exactly, but is one of the doctors other specialist when they said that wasn't a heart attack a healthy, the eye,

dear panic attack was vital at them like that we had a panic it. Maybe you ve had a panic attack will suddenly came and I remember thinking would not like. It's not really anything going on in my life. That would cause that lies not put not a particularly stressful time. You know just record an episode of fallen. What good is going in the gym You can do a bit more work after the gmo. How could it be a penny to attack the din? I just came to the realisation that I had to tell someone this because of the way I just came just whacked me back in the face not all those memories. So this I did hell someone for the first time. So what are we talking about twenty four policies after it happened. the have you were the second person that I told

the calling you up under the guise of rico. I've got these friend and this is what open to them and has the nerve. I think we saw right through that yeah. I remember that ireland was saying I think you should ask you friends, there wasn't fool new and that's. When of this came out- and I remember yak, remember sense of direction my friend thought that this age gap- it probably probably wasn't good- was it. But then I told you in the very yeah, I was really was ends. I never would have done that recall with soylent lives really love, that's truth of the matter, I'm so humble hearing courage and then.

of that, and I know you ve had many emails telling you similar stories about how its helped people listen to that end. Yeah others found it so powerful and is in the one thing- and this is how I found out that you are experiencing those tingles and turn us into just the one thing that come out since I have told some people in the world partly telling a lot more people knew, but that that toy of the chest and the tingles I haven't, had it since Wow wow. I do want to talk more about that, but I remember when you told me about your experience for the first time that I thought I was so humble there also like wow, k, c he's my audience, I made this story for K c, as well as all the other people who had been through something Similarly, as I always say, we have our personal stories, but there's a killer

dave narrative that exists in that's. Why, when you talk about the tingling in your arm and the pressure on your chest. I resonate why I understand we understand each other in a way that dad You can only understand if you painters something similar and that's a lot of people. It's not this year? I, as you say, and I think your courage now to share parts of your story in the hope of helping. Others is something so admirable, and I want to say about the time we were together in london earlier cs and experience this moment that I remember for the rest my life cause, it's the founder of case file, a k c himself said the team down at a restaurant

members of the team that is not everyone was that people there were just one of the right is my pauline, I know you and I love you exactly an you actually sheds that story to us as the boss, the founder of the company, talk king in a way to people who work fee here in a way that was so open and honest am raw. You know a completely wrong and I think at that moment, we owe respected to you so much more for what it was that you did, and I wanted to know about why you ve decided to share this part of the story yeah. I think his just another part in the process for myself as well, is being able to just

open about it and cause. I know how much you sharing your story, a new family sharing their story helped me and throughout the world when I was talking when we're talking about this in london, a fool, if I can do that for someone else I'm happy to do that, essentially want what a boils down to, Now that conversation in london that ice, as you know that stems from it. Had somewhat of another panic attack, leading up to that london yeah thing where it at all came back again and also because you think those different states of a journey think I have held a few paper now fixed. Look. What a sort of came at all came back again as seven a bad time for a couple of days. And I went to the airport and turned her at her and went home. yesterday and on the ice, as you know, has not

Blame it on Lot of things. There were a few. There were a few things people were asking me obviously friends and suffer. What's going on with you just covered caveat issue such a low hanging fruit, that you can blame it. yeah. I didn't get a kind of a test and I was stuff up or whatever come up with some cover story. Bed. yeah that was again just such it. I don't know where it comes from a donor. What happens just such a dark time and I'll never been them? Well, biggest fan of flying, I suppose, but is never stopped me. I always happy to book a flock go some way going holidays. For whatever reason was just all singing that was death in these planes going. and in that it wasn't just like surface, about all point: doesn't crusher exist, but this will these darkness. It was come back again in this house, so hard to putting

Words remember going to say, summons, making, in others they made me realize body holding onto this. It's not forget planes. you're, holding on cities. Yes, you you've now started to address it but she may be understand you give help. under this fella, twenty five plus years is not a case of Told a few people now you fixed You ve got a lot of work to do, and then she explained different things and. Tell what I was experiencing visible holding back to that and what happened: the childhood in very good, very powerful discussion. I just open my eyes a little bit there's still a ways to go on their journey and you have done a flat the next day after that conversation was wrapped in london, though one understood anything, you heard what the fuck is going on,

Yeah, that's, is just such a powerful conversation that I had with the person you know I'm talking to. yeah. I just really were able to make me see it for what it was What else is essentially having another putting his hack, but without the symptoms of that tingles in the darkness of the chest? Yes, exactly and what about talk this talk in your mind. What I am particularly interested in for these type when we talk about abuses? We see you you've mention shame. Alot but I'm wondering about the rage, the anger, how you what you think

about how would justice be served? What do you think about that? Like does that? Does that take up any of your thoughts are not yet has for sure over the years, gesine vision just knocking on ones, door and just for building fuck out of them. We are trying to do anyway. You start rowan, and so it up and stop a thing. Yet I'm gonna get better view about I just trying to inflict some physical pain. the person, I'm sure, that's probably in a normal reaction, a lot of people have now shouldn't site. That is no such thing as a normal reaction, but that's just a reaction that I had thought that I had and then they would come and go with various times in my life like. Maybe if I did

that will make it all better than you. Obviously, it's not going to achieve anything, but I have had those thoughts for sure And where, where are your thoughts now they not there? yeah. They focused on yourself and your healing, or were you just focus on myself and my healing y'all haven't thought about it? I haven't had those thoughts for a while since they're pretty much talking to you and talking to other people and trying to work through it and address it and stuff Yeah, I realise that its myself so don't hate to work on. Not yes, and at the end of the day as we said, It's obvious: what happened to me happened to the person who did it to me? We did. We did mention that I mean it's. Obviously we can't confirm it, but they cycles usually don't start when we're introduced to them. I would say

yeah. It's is really interesting. When we talk about eve, mentions a bad doing something and then thinking that I gave us the end of it and that's the end of it and then that's the end of it. Then you can get an appeal. In July I gave it now I can get on the plane. So that's the end of it and I think it's important to remember it's kind of lifelong work. We kind of gotta keep working through it in different ways of the course of our life and part of that I am a strong proponent for the power of conversation. Do that and to contribute to. While we were talking about this collective narrative, of similar experiences in relation to abuse On that note, I would like to thank you once again for being so gen obviously sharing that part of your story with us k c, and I hope that its able to reach who it needs-

to. Thank you. Thank you for having may recall and thank you for sharing your story and thank you to your family is I know, I think it's very important as well, and that's why couldn't believe when you said that you will pitching silent waves to other places prior when I said no As I heard solemnize as this is a very powerful and people need to hear this, and how do we make that happen as many people as possible very important, thank you, so so much as you know, I am the biggest fan. The biggest fan

its mutual thanks for joining us for the first ever episode of unfiltered. If you'd like to know more about case file or the other podcast case, he's working on check out, taste, opposites, dot, com.

Hey it's me buster and I'm back again for the dog days of summer, a long one day, police into twenty twenty three alondra as yale or venue stl for only two. Twenty nine am on the blog dash dot com blog, the local name. You can trust the owner insurance in america's best ten year warranty, including for doing the right things with a boost from the office going to be competitive for details offers expire. Eight, thirty one, twenty twenty three