Christians here things like social justice, and you know racial justice, and it's like yeah. Of course, you know we were for that. Marriage equality well MA am offer marriage in and when you have weak and faulty worldviews and then seductive? which a man you have leaders with unclear voices you end up, in the mess that were raised by a buddhist single mom in los angeles, doktor body bottom came of age, bring the height of Malcolm ass. It fell to pull toward the growing black nationalist movement, a conversion to christianity in college completely reshapes is worldview. Bodies is kept, came to Christ side of speaks the language of outsiders. His men were we respect body is a former pastor author educating currently serving his dean of the school of divinity african chris,

university in lusaka, zambia university that seeks to transform africa biblically based education, teacher on the history of the bible or marriage and family. He aims to help ordinary people. understand significance of seeing the world through a biblical. Let anyone is heard a preach knows his conviction of wording. Spirit is unafraid challenge the current social justice movement. Continue, It demonstrates the bibles enduring relevant without trying to reach you in man's image, others they special I sit down with body to discuss is unusual path, faith, biblical masculinity and the wolf pastors with infantry christian churches around the world plus explains how he came to find his true calling to live and each in africa. The this episode of Ben shapiro show sunday special is sponsored by january. Will originally cell dot com slash sunday right now and save over seventy percent off Jeonju sells most popular package.

Welcome this is the Ben shapiro show. We are so excited to welcome the voting bottoms that you're voting thanks so much for stopping by. I really appreciate it absolutely my pleasure man. So, let's, let's just jump right in one of your big sort of causes, is the over social justice and obviously the term social justice is very contentious. Or how do you define social? Just isn't. What do you think is wrong with social justice yeah I mean I think social justice classically is defined as the reduced redistribution of wealth, privileges and opportunities of social justice by equity, not equality right, not not what we all grew up with. You know equal opportunity, but equity, equal outcomes. So it's redistribution with a

You toward achieving equal outcomes for various specified groups. Again is a lot more. You know involved in that, but as the basic definition of it, and hopefully that can continue the conflicts. He talked a lot about this with christianity and religious practice generally because they Obviously, a lot of social justice infused christian, it's off what I advocate the clearest conflict is seeing you know when Jesus in one of his parables talk about the parable of the talents right, and you have the owner who gives in different talents to different workers right, there's one and then you know this there's two within his five, his bag, and one of them has done better with his talents than the others, and he does it take from the one who did poorly or take from the one who did well and give to the one who did

Yeah she takes away from the one who did poorly and gives it to the one who does well. I refer to that parable because really flies in the face of the idea that the christian attitude, ought to be equal outcomes. Nothing could be further from the truth. The christian attitude is justice writ large right gods. Justice, though the righteous and equal application of god's law, but not equal outcomes so when it when it comes to your group, redistribution, which is really what I think social justice is very into. Obviously, social justice has an individual component there. There are people who believe that every individual should come out evenly, which essentially master communism, But it seems like, in today's date agents more about group redistributive justice, certain groups who, upon the ethnic groups that have more systemic power. So the. How do you reconcile the reality, which is that certain groups have been put abandoned. Certain groups have discriminated against those groups.

With with solution making that doesnt violate the precept of individual justice in you. I think for most of us we would say, show me the injustice and I will go up with you and we'll go deal with it. So but what people are doing is they're not saying no, no, no this law over here and this group of people are being put upon by this law over here, because you- and I would both right say- let's go. not another saying, there's disparity in outcomes and that in and of itself, the injustice and so now were fighting ghosts right because there could be married reasons that we have those kinds disparities, and not all my things that we need to do something about right. I mean austrians make great violence right. I mean that that just thank god,

for that. Right, we don't just say: hey you guys, you know, stop making so many violins and we're gonna make no, we just say: hey they're good at that you know most people are. It is good at that, as they are praise god for that school. Violence from em but decide that somehow any kind, disparity among groups, is you know just sort of a de facto injustice? That's usually problematic, and how do you think that's impact and critically black americans, so they live, is obviously come up in the context of multiple group, but most prominently in the united states. That is the issue that the bush administration has taken up is the idea, the black americans him and left behind by the system, and now we have to have systems that are put in place to redress this. You see on a more specific level in california in illinois. There are places that are actively talking about, for example, slavery, reparations to make up for the injustices of the past. How do you deal with that? Yeah? I mean there's a couple of things number one.

If there are individuals have been put upon, if there's been injustice, then there should be legal redress for that injustice. However, my family, you know- have this nice wholesome german name right My family was were slaves of him he's been in america since, as far as I can tell around the early too timid, seventeen hundreds so, If we were talking about you know at the end of slavery saying and doing something at the into slavery. For those members of my family who experience that, then you I'm I'm I'm all with you, but talking about that now, I think, is inappropriate a number of reasons number one, because how do we determine who and what those individuals are but number two. Thereby

lot of legal redress is over the years detour took to address those issues, and I think thirdly, there are issues the black community, for example, that we know contribute to some of the disparities version but when you have almost seventy five percent of them children born I wedlock, and we know that, regardless of a person's ethnicity, there are consequences to that their consequences in terms of incarceration in terms of drop out rates in terms of drugs, alcohol violence You know and all these sorts of that will if we know that those things are there. My big problem with the social justice crowd is if everything goes back to social this, then there are some things that ought to be addressed that don't get addressed because we blame the wrong course. How do you think

it has been received that seen it received in a couple of different ways in the united states. Obviously, one is that that people feel actually empowered by the message, because it suggests that they actually have more in their hands, and then they thought they did. It's not sort shadowy nefarious forces that are out to get them most these decisions are actually things that you can do in your own personal life. There's no shit the historic, forced its forcing you to impregnated girl and take off. That is a decision that you actually have to make yourself in it. that, conversely, you can avoid making so people seem energized about. Other people seem enervated by that they almost seem empowered by the message that society discriminating against them. It gives them a sense of of purpose. It gives him something rector up. To think that the message is actually was it. You know I usually get I rose, and here we go again with the victim blaming. I usually get people who will accuse me of being out of touch Of course you know your. I am and obviously in oh-

I know what it's like to have. Some of those kind of disadvantages in those people, obviously don't know me who I am or where I'm from, because I very much know what it's like to have those kinds of disadvantages But I dont worry about that worry about how people take that as geez. I worry about doing something about the problems that exist? I believe that black people are capable. I dont believe that black people are utterly dependent on the government or people of good will. I believe that black people are absolutely capable. I was raised by a single black mother who was, lily capable who did everything that she could do to see to it that I had advantages that she didn't have. So I dont worry about you know. The talking heads Who would immediately dismiss that idea as

much as I worry about people who would hear and people who would respond and people who could be helped. Actually, by addressing these issues that need to be addressed and can be addressed individually and within family. So how was your value system shape because, obviously, given the experiences that you've talked about a little bit here, I don't wanna hear more about those from from your childhood and growing up the vast majority people who grow up in circumstances donor, but the same sort of conclusion that you do political. with regard to value, so I haven't you end up with a set of values. You know there was a long and winding road. You know

The younger, I would have been more in the sort of black nationalist vein and, if you think about you, know, martin luther king and malcolm x, I would have been more on the malcolm X, black power side, and but I came to faith late in life. I never heard the gospel until I was in university. I was raised by a single teenage buddhist mother in south central los angeles, and so that was kind of my faith. Reference point, and you know I heard about Christ. I heard about christianity and I believed the gospel I believed in and in in christ, as my lord in and saviour, and it changed my life and slowly. It began to change my worldview as well and so it was a process of recognised

the things in my life tat. I had believed that I had taken on board because of what I had been told, the much of which was not accurate or through and then looking at the scriptures and being serious about what it meant to be a follower of christ and so slowly that that began to change my worldview and then, of course, you know, through my education and other things, and to being a student of history that just began to change my worldview as well and becoming aware of it inside instances you know nefarious.

It's actors who benefit greatly from convincing black people and others that our problems are from outside. So again it was a it was a process and part of that process was when I got old enough to find a little trouble this before I even became a christian. I do not old enough to find a little trouble in los angeles and my mother ship me out and got a greyhound bus for three days and went from los angeles, california to buford south carolina and lived for about a year with her oldest brother, who was a retired internal structure in the marine corps were doing. He had done twenty two years in the marines and two tours in vietnam and his first time having a man in the house, and it was a life altering experience,

he was a man's man. He was self reliant. You know tell me on a hot and fission. You know everything else and taught me how to train a dog. You know, though, those sorts of things and that you know I had a great deal to do with it as well. So let lightless about that from other, because obviously we obviously we now live in a society that really disparages the value of fathers. Mothers that the basic Yes, that any family nation unit is totally equivalent. They only to mother, he going to father to fathers made to it to mothers might do it. Seven people might it society might do I, but the what the studies and to show is that the the best outcome, particularly for young men, is if they have a father in the home. If they dont have a father in the home, then a surrogate father near by, and what why you think society has moved so far so fast. from this, when it's so obvious mean that that the it is perfectly obvious that the effective of not having male figures around is devastating for young because we're more move by and committed to

the analyses and narratives, then we are the truth. I'm especially when you start talking about social justice. Movement. Critical theory you know when, when you have as a foundational idea that people who are appealing to absolute truth are part of you know this oppressive hedging power. That's that's one problem, But then, when you also have this powerful narrative that men are unsafe, that that the patriarchy is inherently oppressive than that tends to override any evidence to the contrary, so you talk about these studies that point too outcomes for young men had just doesn't carry as much weight.

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am a man so you're, seeing the sort of mannose fear online, which picked up a lot of them hyper masculine and- and what would I have said about It- is that they're getting a lot of the diagnosis right and they're getting a lot of the prescription wrong? They are correctly pointing out that men have lost their way there. We pointed out amendment seven eyes that that a lot of what men were supposed to distant taken away from them, but their answer is I too sort of restore traditional manhood. The answer is to almost take advantage of the failures of the system, so be as promiscuous as you want nail as many tricks as you want you'll go out there experience, life and and never settle down, never have kids, never too an obligation for all that's what the world wants of you. What what do you make of it? state of men right now, because it is true that across the country, men are in crisis, me they're not going to school as much as within their getting there, not the workforce as much as women any more than I can unmarried they're taking to pornography, and these are serious crises and part of that is

you know when you take manhood and try to look at manhood in isolation? You you ve, already got a problem. who created, as he created us, male and female, and so you cannot understand mail this apart from female this right, yet understand, what it means to be a man first of all, by what it needs to be made. The image of god and second of all by what it means to be made as this this counterpart to woman, and this idea that god created us to be priest, profit and provider and protector got designed us that way and when you take us away from that, like you know we're bigger than women were stronger than women. You know we have. We have all, these things that allow us to take advantage of women, they get pregnant. You know we don't we, walk away from it and you don't leave them with that. There's Many things that if, if left unchecked, they do allow for this toxic version of mess,

lenity as what we have to call men back to is this. Banning of manhood. That is outside of themselves. An you being a man is not just about who you think you are or even who you want to be. It is about you pointing back to the one who made you it's about you, pointing back to the purpose for which he made you and it's what you pointing back to the relationship that he in ten for you to have with the opposite sex, you dont want to as you mentioned his men not wanting to be married, that's an incredibly important part of the picture of what it means to be a man. This idea that we would be in a relationship that we would be the head of a house or that we would be like us, it priest, profit provider protector within that context, all That gives us not only purpose, but it gives us greater. Understanding of what masculine he is all about, and it also keeps it in check and it protects women

that's the irony of all of this in our people are fighting against the patriarchy we are fighting against marriage. People are funny, is traditional roles, and there was what is your leave women unprotected and you, men unchecked to do it where they will with those women. So let's say that you're you've talked to many many young men, obviously across the nation, and what let's say that you're you're faced with a young man, who's been brought up in a in a family without a father just mom, somebody like you are young and in that person is saying, listen, I've had a rough life. I've I haven't been able to get ahead. My opportunities are limited and now you're asking take on all of these burdens. Make me the case that I should take on these burdens. First of all, that's what you were created to do right, and secondly, it's what you yearn to do like it. If it is honest. Men, don't yearn to just sit in their mothers basement and play video games in fact,

We sit in the basement and play video games, we'd like to play those kind of video games, that stimulate there. You actions and activities of masculinity right, and so that this The first thing I want to say to you: you were you were made for more than this there's a got agreed created the world and a guy created you, and so I want you to come back to that. The second thing that I want to say is that you don't by the lie that says you have to have it all figured out before you can begin to exercise any kind of manhood. Nothing could be further from the truth right. I don't have it all figured out. You know you, you don't have it all figured out, but this process, even this process of growing as a man, is part of what god, has put in place for us to figure it out right. The other thing that I would say is you're not called to do this by yourself. You know the bible says like iron

friends iron, so one man sharpens another we need each other. We need other men. We need other men in our lives. The mentor us to disciple us we need men when we're younger. You know too corral us to check As you know, we need that saw. Those are some of the things that I would want to talk to. You and about and ultimately to point them. again to the god who made them and to point them to Christ, who wants to redeem that manhood christ? Who is the ultimate? you're of manhood. All the stuff you're saying the feminist movement has obvious. This is this is antiquated, it's not worth it. Europe's patriarchal its description, tori AMOS, when you're calling out when you're calling on men, they manage to do what you're doing is you're taking a female initiative, you're robbing them of their individuality. How do you respond to the feminist movement that makes claims like that? Respond by saying that kind of manhood is a is a protective entity? It's a protests

If you know of force, if you will that allows women to flourish, listen if men are unchecked, Women are not going to flourish there going to be victimized, an ethic actually what were seen we're seeing women being victimized by me and whose masculinity is unchecked they're, not being train their not being disciple. There being told that of the things that real ask your levity is about all the things that they need to jettison as a result. They live more like animals, adversary, growth? All of this I come from a traditional village background. I was an orthodox. Do we take all this? What we're talking there right now incredibly serious and in my report, essentially tells me that practice proceeds belief right in that we are big into you perform these coming. it and whether you believe in these commandments or not, you are going to perform them and then the belief comes later right. There's whole sections of the talmud that are devoted to this idea that, basically, before you believe you you gotta practice, you've got gotta, do the things and then

you find yourself walking in the ways of god. Then you realize that is that your walking aren't vat gods ways and that it means something to you or society without patients, though, and it wants to believe very often to pursue the actual action- and so what we forget is that we are not acting in a illegally. you are acting by definition in an ungodly way, and so, if you do that, then you will end up in that belief systems. Well, it's not just impatience. It's also arrogance it. Oh, we We don't believe that we need to be each us and, as you were talking about that, I was thinking about in their testament efficient chapter six right in our children away apparent in the lord, for this is right out of in your mother, the first man with is that it may be well with you and you may A long delay it right and there

inverse for fathers, dinner, provocative and anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the lord was interesting about that is before the text talks about the relationship between husbands and wives and an end its pointing to the gospels its assuming. You know that you're christian, but that section right ere, it really points to law the idea that children, when their being brought up there to be taught how to behave eve before they believe exactly what you're talking about here and in order for that to happen, you ve got to have a structure and not just a structure but that structure of the family actually has to have a direction otherwise chilled. or just sort of left to their own devices. So again, this goes back to work. Talking about with the idea that we need structure that we need for that. We need leadership that we need mentoring, that when you discipleship

but that we also new standard. One of the things that is so odd about sort of the current moment is that we constantly say what would pursue has ever seen. You want adversity and we have to reckon people's adversity, but we ve actually done as we flattened human beings into androgynous widgets who apparently have the same level of development from the time they are one hundred they die we treat children like they are adults, but they are generally adults who can make full decisions about everything on their own at the age of five without any sort of previous rules or structures, and that's not the way that that life actually works mean, as you are pointing out correctly. In my view, life is a series of roles in those roles are provided to you by your biology, which was implanted in you. I got. That is the way that society works and when, when we sort of I've on this earth and we're told make your own way without any of those structures, you're better often and there's natural phrase that that's used in hebrew called tino punish by baby born in the forest. The idea is that a baby born in the forest has no actual moral obligations, because there's no structures around them. It's literally the biblical excuse for not responsible for your own sin and and we've created

our society of babies in the forest bites removing the parents and the home and the church and and structures around them, and then we wonder why people are wandering around aimlessly and insecure, They have more problems with mental health than the generation is ever had before. Have you sure you remember the famous experiment and done a number of times, you take children up for recess, you know There's no offense the children all stay huddled closely together. the building, but the many who put a fence the in wonder all around the yard and play, dear areas those boundaries make children safe and it makes children fields, safe and we have a bunch of children growing up without boundaries and they don't feel safe in his news flash if they dont have boundaries, they're, not safe,

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the most popular package there's genuine dell dot com, slash sunday right now, save over seventy percents of january, as the most popular package is g and u c l dot com slash sunday, all orders will include a mystery luxury gift, while supplies last that jenelle dot com slash sunday go check them out right now, jenelle dot com, slash sunday for the world's best skin products. Genius of that comes last sunday. Let's talk about why it seems that religious leadership has kind of abandoned the playing field. It really is an amazing thing. It used to be that religious leaders would make very strong statements on behalf of values, talking about right now and now it seems as though, if you do your immediately labelled a big it or terrible, and so religious leaders seem to have almost abandoned the field they instead to about vague ideas about tolerance and niceness in and though they talk about

and dignity, but not in any sort of deep in abiding way. They they they use buzzwords rather than than actual hard nosed rules. And what do you think happened? Why is that happening? I think there are a couple of things happen number one. I think the people pointing the cameras, like the point, the cameras at those people, right there there there are, you know many out there who have not by the need to bail, but but people don't like to point the cameras at them. I think this number I think that too there are a lot of people out there who are enamoured with success They they read their own fan mail. They like to be to me. We all like to be liked right. So you just sort of start carving off the edges of the truth. At first, until eventually you're doing things for clicks and four legs, and not for your your calling. I think another thing is that the academy,

I think, for you know, over a generation now we ve had people, you don't look people in the ministry, peep people and in our churches it's not like you know, they're they're, born and and dropped into a theological training institution right now. Born and the overwhelming majority of them are educated by the government. All the way through universe and then maybe they'll go to seminary but world view that these guys are taught from you know, beginning almost two years, is this: you know sort of, graham she and neo marxist. You know worldview and it it infects the way that they view the scriptures. It infects the way that they view their calling, and then I think the other thing is there's just a lotta there's a lot of pressure out there and a lot of people just that they can't take that pressure. I don't like it

I don't like being people think that I like being called names or you know the like. You know whatever I I I I don't like that. The the only reason I do it is because there's something that's more important right, there's a calling that that's more important and I think people are struggling because of this and suffering because of it. Now back to what we talked. about earlier with social justice. You know christians hear things like social justice and you know racial justice, and it's just like yeah, you know of of. Of course you know we're we're for that and marriage equality, while offer marriage in equality in and when you have weak and faulty world views and then seductive language. And then you have leaders with unclear voices. You end up in the mess.

Where am I? I wonder also if religious leadership- and this is something I've been thinking about a lot recently if what religious leadership started off by doing was worrying because they were kind of members of the flock who are on the fringes of the flock and they started wandering away, and so they followed those members of the flock into thousand, they worry so much about making sure they bring those people back in They decided the only way to actually keep these people members. The flock is too broad essentially the fence, like expanding vans and then by. If you definition, the funds than even though this member. The flock is way too. How aware there so part of the floor. Because an offence is now five miles wide Russell. The idea is that they're so focused on the exceptions to the rules. They forget about the maintenance of the rules and in the process. What they end up with is being able to titular really say we have lots of people who adhere to our version of the church, but nobody goes to church. Nobody actually follows any rules, no actual ensure coherence to the idea, jesse so much focus in the religious leadership community on what hebrews called keywords or the outreach and so little noses

examples are so little so little focus honour here is the rule and we stand by the rome. Listen, we want to help. You understand the role I understand why the rule is not changing for you and why maybe you'd be better off conforming to the wrote me understand everybody, since we understand we are falls short the grace of god and all that, but the rule doesn't change just for you, but we're so so with. If we say that somebody, the person may run that we forget get rid of the wheel. Everybody runs and then there's nothing to adhere to and the first exactly Eventually, we have nothing that were standing on right. We would were just on shifting sands and again I I want to say that there is the star. Would not by the to bill And- and there are no good, solid folks out there. Unfortunately, most of em don't get cameras pointing their way. but there was a movement really in the eightys and ninetys the church, growth movement, and you just basically described to a t.

It was all about doing whatever was necessary to get people into the doors to keep people. Churches, you know in overgrown, like gangbusters, all of a sudden, you ve got churches all over, place? You know that a running thousands am saying. Well, whenever you do to get, em is what you're gonna have to do to keep him fidel, and so the compromises just continued, but venom I am hopeful because I do, I know a lot of those guys who have it the knee and I run into people all the time who are looking for those guys they're, saying where those guys near me right and an end to a lot of people are looking add an and listening to and following belong line you, nobody, sort of bacchus social media and in a social media deserves bashing. But The fact of the matter is there are people who are finding

voices, you know, and then they begin to look for other voices so I'm encouraged. I don't think this is going to last a cat last, because its built on sand is absolutely right. It was and in what happened- I was gonna say this earlier, so you know this: social justice movement did, it was happening. It was blowing, was goin or bodies of running in that direction, and then all of a sudden people started screaming about christian nationalism, fake europe set about this. What are you gonna see about christian nationalist? You know what I had to do. I'd go wait a minute. I think like right. What are you right? What are you wearing what it looks like you? We may agree with you right levies. Let me see what he's talking about, but disco, What you're saying earlier about people not wanting to speak up. because now there's that label o york and it's not

this christian nationalism it right Christian nationalism right in have you seen. I know you ve seen these oppression wheels right these wheels. Were they they have? You know the various groups, and it only side is the oppressed group and the inside, you know, there's the oppressor group and you know Whenever these wheels are in error, many oppressed groups they have. One of the oppressor groups is always white. One of your pressure groups is always christian, and one of the repressive groups is always nationalist right. So when you talk about white christian nationalism, you have it triple a pressure group right just in the name, and so now, if people want do, you know celebrate the overturn of roby wade. All you have to do is say why christian nash, what's up and all of a sudden they back off right and so they're they're, they're, muted. You know I again, I I got no patients were. I really is pretty well

One of the great leaps that that you hear constantly, particularly in the abortion rate, is you can make an entire argument about why the life of the unborn child protection without rough if the bible that reference to god, I do literally every day on that program and the minute that you say that you are pro life, they immediately all you're doing that, because religious bigot, say. Well, I never mentioned god. I never mentioned the bible, I'm happy to mention the godless god, I'm happy to mention the bible and happy to talk about psalms. I'm happy to talk about about the book of have you thought about all that stuff? That's totally vine, but that's all. talking about you're so eager to hit. How do you think there being a religious per? and turned into an actual insult and dirty word. That is supposed to forbid you from public life. It used to be the opposite, you, to be in the united states that if you were a person who was not of faith, This was this was consider, not ok, and why society right renounce its flipped in many other early colonies. You couldn't serve in office right. You know there was a religious test,

in in in the state constitutions in order that the early colonies? But you know what people do that? What what I always do it? I bade him. I always talk about god in the bible. What I'm talking about my prayers? convictions cause I want. I want to bring a man right. I just get. Ok, it's a rope adult come on. Come on to talk about the religious arguments, because without I do is I want to show them that their liars, because Stacy Abrams was going to churches right, quoting scripture, making her argument for abortion and nobody was saying. Ah you know you can't bring your religion into. They don't have a problem with religion. They don't have a problem with the bible right, they don't have a problem with Raphia warnock when he does it right, he's a pastor. You know everybody's worried about. You know, churches getting involved with you know politics.

whatever hears the reverend Raphia warnock note He has a problem with it and what it does is it it exposes the lie. It exposes the hypocrisy, you don't have a problem with god, you don't have a problem with the bible. You have a problem with. My position and my ideology, energy. using that as an excuse, so that obviously the this or perversion of scripture or something drives me absolutely up a wall and my my friend Dennis Prager is fond of saying that the the biblical command and not a bear, if not to take the lord's name in vain. I is not about saying JD, it got it and her mother its values about speaking in the name of gods, and only god clearly is not serious and- and this has become a habit from politicians on a routine basis that there they will cite the bible to a proposition that is completely anti biblical. You'll get broccoli setting the least of these in reference to transgender ism were gay marriage. While the bible has more to say about these particular topics than a rather vague, reverse from from book remark is, it

it I'd see again. I welcome that. I want to have that conversation You know I I want to do that our especially as a black minister right, because as again everybody wants to point to the civil rights movement, everybody wants to launch this civil movement. Everybody wants to point Do you know the reverend, our sharp and end the reverend Jesse Jackson and nobody has a problem with it until you are not spouting the leftist progressive marxist ideology, then, all of a sudden you no separation of church and state, and you need to stop, and I just call it. I got no for since you mentioned a couple of times the neo marxist ideology, beating that's, what's really sort of provoking all of it. his infusion of of new marxism or is it in more almost of infusion of Forty in sex allergy, it seems like a lot of what what's

All of the above, I think, a yeah. I think all of the above. I think it. I think, there's there's sort of this conflation of things that happen. You know you have people like. You know John money with his fraudulent exe, fermentation any you know You have kinsey with his enough frauds research and people. Who were holding to you know this new model. ideology this. This oppressor or press mentality and then the immortals ideology religion in and of itself, there's no absolute truth right. Religion is just the tool that enforces the hedge monica power right, so these guys want to use this. You know. Forty in kinsey keynesian ideology. To basically say he hears the truth. Here's the reality is, opposite of what you religious prudes. I've always said, but of course it would be

because this is science and that's just science fiction. You know that you call religion when actual the opposite is true, though, guys were the frauds. It seems as though it were in the midst of revolutionary moment today did progressive movement. I've read term them on my showed that the transgressed because it really is not about progress. It really is about transgression salvage since obviously because they these basic idea is the institutions of life? Have you in there? They prevent you from being truly free. They don't allied, find your subject subjective sense of self worth. They they tell you I can't do things that you want to do and the only way to fight a system that oppressive is to blow it up, we have to transgress all the rules. It is actually necessary to transgress all the rules, which means that the point isn't that we I believe what we're doing is right is that what you are doing is bad and wrong, and so we will go out of our way to do anything. We can do to undermine the institutions that you promote and then, of course, that the results are

our dire and their immediate, their immediate movies to blame the bigotry of the institutions that they ve been steadily attempting to undermine and then to establish their own institutions so that they can exercise the authority that they just said last week. Was inherently evil. So what what kind of institutions you think they are seeking to set up, because its own cleared exactly what their utopia looks like. I know that that right now, the first is destroying everything level the ground- it's it's almost nihilistic, disruptive about almost too, but what but they, but they you're, suggesting that they do want to build new institutions in place of the old institutions. What do you think that they want the same institutions? Do not that creative right there another It is not that smart, it's not that they have. This I of new institutions. They just have the idea of them being in power of whatever institutions exist. Ok, so hat.

How does that manifest in terms of politics? So we we've been talking a lot about religion and the religious community, the hijacking of churches and and sort of the hollowing out of the church, but in terms of in terms of politics. Obviously, this this has led to an extraordinary amount of political polarization. The united states has you get rid of the social fabric that used to be shared, ensure people are now rushing to political party to sort of fill that gap. What do you see as the future of politics in the united states right now I don't know other than chaos. You know I don't know, but I think we get a glimpse of it with academic institutions, because if I think it has happened in the academy that that the radicals of the sixties right again, these radical new marxists of the sixties take this long march through the institutions, and today the institutions exist as their power structures. It is hard to find conservatives in the academy,

and any academy is turned absolutely upside down and the you know they call good evil and evil good we're proliferating the number of degrees that people can get and all of them are absolutely worthless. There's almost no body going into stem anymore. You know we. We we don't trust the classics anymore work is there to white. don't trust theology anymore right, the queen of the sciences again, because it's the patrimony power, so you go on the average college campuses today and I think you have a glimpse of what he could look like or what it doesn't look like. Rather when the inmates run the asylum. So one of the big moves, obviously in college campuses, when you professors who say they are smarter than you parents, then you're pastor than everything else is They rely on the fact that they have degrees to basically say that everybody is religious. Is stupid.

This is this is this is the lead attack on religion right. It's not really on values, what they're doing as an excuse for overriding this religious values and allowing you to to experience whatever subjective pleasure you wish. But the case they make an essentially, if you believe in knowledge and you're, an idiot russia that the only thing you can even is a is a materialistic conception of the universe in which your centrally pre programmed by biology to do particular things and and your parents are a bunch of bigots which is ironic right, especially with all the trans stuff, because on the one hand they want to argue that, on the other hand, they want to argue that biology is irrelevant. Right now is a very weird cartesian, ghost in the machine sort of stuff from people who are biological materials, but that the argument that they

is essentially you're an idiot to believe in god's couched in comes home, comes to your house and starts telling you that god doesn't exist, that the bible was written by a bunch of idiots in caves thousands of years ago. How do you respond to that? What you put your chief argument to two people who are purporting to object to the bible or object more broadly to to the existence of god his providence in the universe, an honour and intellectual basis, you're. What I wanna do is I want to show them that that's all based on presuppositions right with the The last thing that I want to do is get down on their level and say: ok, fine, let's just leave that aside. No, I want to say to them all of that is based on presuppositions you're, taking leaps of faith back there in order to get here and make that argument. Your presuppositions have been tried before and they ve led to catastrophe. Mine is based on presuppositions as well, but my presuppositions

has led to western civilization. So that's the first thing that I want to say. The one thing that I to say is that I'm not coming at this blind right. I choose to believe the bible, because it's a reliable collection of historical documents written by eye witnesses during the lifetime of other eyewitnesses. They report supernatural events that took place in fulfilment of specific prophecies and they claim that their running the divine rather human in origin. So again, this is not just you know, close your eyes and hope. You feel something you know type stuff where we do not have a god who calls upon us for blind faith. We have a god who speaks. We have a god who has revealed self. So those are the two things and I want to do right and one just you know, get off your moral high horse because you got presuppositions just like me and I'm here to look at what you're presuppositions have wrought and the number three. Let me talk to you about me:

we'll jump back in and just one moment, this conversation does continue here, but only for our daily wire plus members. If you'd like to hear the full conversation, click the link at the top of the episode description enjoying it. daily wire plus. The the The hmm,.