I want us in this time of division and an fragmentation and fracture to find ways of coming together in peace coming together with paste. That's why I'm chime for candies Owens and chance, you alone, which surround China people. I agree with a lot of talk to people where there are areas of concern and discontent and in downright disagreement and find ways that we can harmonise. stand up comedian Russell Brand is established in show business in the early two, thousands presenting on MTV hosting a spin off a tv big brother and whose blasted into movie started in two thousand eight, most, notably with his beloved character of the snow and forgetting Sarah Marshall. You could be the queen of the group is clean sources, Secondly, so suckers I've done in one corner his sharp wit and Netteke persona continued to propel him to world vain with international comedy tours and Hollywood movies, but then around twenty twelve Russell publicly decided to step back from the line

He continued with his comedy, but also committed his career toward spiritual and political activism, released revolution, a book about nonviolent social change, away from contempt, capitalism and toward me good. He also wrote recovery, a seller about navigating addiction as someone who's been addicted sex heroin, fame and everything that comes with outline a work. You may documentaries exploring drug addiction to Muse campaign for change in the treatment of addiction in his home country. The UK after capturing an audience with his celebrity dramatically. We focus now brings his audience along with him on his journey through his podcast under the skin, without saying that Brussels, in my own life experience, is pretty different in this episode. We find something we have in common, we dive into his police and what he wants to achieve visit our agreements and disagreements on human nature, how universal someplace out in reality and our experiences, his father

hey, hey, unwelcome, it is the best Shapiro showed Sunday. Special they show is sponsored my expressed Vp Enzo, my big taken, the government spying on you express gps dot com, slash that just reminder between some, these questions at the end with Russell? The only way to get access to that part of the conversation is to become a member had another to daily word. I can become a member, you all have access to all of the full conversations with every one of our awesome. Guess Russell thanks my for joining a shout so having to be with you might say. You know I think, for a lot of my audience. This is always a these sorts of weird I would say groupings, did the fact that day united sitting together, I is strange, a lot of people who may not know your your spiritual and political side may only be familiar with your work in Hollywood, and I think your journey really is a fascinating ones of your mind. I'd like to have you go through that

a little bit, because, as you know, people sort of pop into public business for a moment in time. Then they sort of disappear. Then they pop again into public consciousness and so on, a lot my audience aware of all the things that you been doing over the years and for how you got from pointing point bees? Why you start me from the beginning? How did you got a name for yourself in the first place. I must stand up for me, and primarily Ben that's my background, and while I was becoming stand, outcome India- and I was also studiously and diligently, becoming a drug addicts took coil of commitment is quite time consuming and ultimately these two drives drive to and attain in the drive to now. Pain compete it in my little biographical journey and their Stanhope comedy letter black hosting staff, on MTV, like MTV the amaze in your country I am also eventually doing movies. staff are trained as an actor but am prior to solve.

Breaking out in having one of those moments. Where would have breached public consciousness politically in your country and has merited like I'm a famous were famous, Tina singer over their Casey Parry, Very much was in the world of celebrity in so visible stardom. At that point, button secondary journey or or perhaps more accurately and ulterior journey that was so more important was that was dealing with of recovery and waking up from kind of addiction and attachment, around behavioral things, as well as the obvious tablet, drugs from which have been clean, first a long time now and I feel like come, they is very easy to form appetite based attachment stuff like fame and celebrity in money and power, and I would contest that these of energy of addiction is a key driver in She may lead cultures that the energy of consumerism is something to addiction and, of course, speaking primarily from personal experience within it.

And I reckon we'll have a may- is I got like well famous for a minute, and some of that was fantastic. Other aspects of it were challenging, and this of spiritual and domestic aspects of my life Vince of subsequent they promote it to the forefront, and now I live, what you might call a comfortable, but Sir more ordinary life with kids, do you for children and animals are married. I live a kind of domestic life and that at the forefront of my consciousness in my intentions, Ben is an area which I think we have in common. Ah, my spirituality like trying to become a black person trying to live in accordance with the spiritual principles that have saved my life and try to think how I can be beneficial while still, hopefully on occasion, sometimes inadvertently, being and assigning. Tell rats. I'm gonna talk you're spirituality, religion, a second thing what's fascinating about, so your person

story is, first of all it it's just the story of ecclesiastical essential. He basically to the solemn on a journey through what have I thousand wives and a thousand Susan, and then it seems that you sort of came around hits the view that there is. There is a certain emptiness adapted for for somebody means I grew up religious read. I grew up at some time. I was young teen like eleven twelve thirteen years old going to an orthodox and a dog very steeped in the in the sort of judeo christian notions of personal virtue and and controlling apple. And all tat sort of stuff there there's all a draw in our culture toward, as you say, the fulfilment of those appetites into somebody Jimmy you, you really what ha ha done. A lot of stuff maybe can talk about. When was it that you sort of stars feel like. Maybe this isn't the be all end all, maybe maybe there's something more than this personally for me, it took the I8 required that the encounters be kind of lived fruit. I understood thing

theoretically and spiritually long before I was able to embody them and leave bottom. I reckon it was, is quite hard to monitor how you feel if you're being loaded and applauded if you're, successful, financially and being celebrated some you can lose touch with what is actually happening to you is spiritually, or you know, if you in religious person emotionally or psychically, but I suppose in retrospect him I am certainly aware- and at the time I had an inkling, that I was feeling a little disconnected and because I'm so privilege to have these back in addiction and, more importantly, in recovery, I began to recognise the any external stimulant that begins to govern my stay. My perception govern my moods me

the way identify myself could potentially be categorized as addiction if my life becomes about. However, people see me about was written about me how how finance successful. I am then unkind of living in it an external objects and was able to boast tied to awaken so that was unhappy that wasn't fulfilled love, you arrive your classical reference. Their ban is difficult because things like this, the flesh is satisfying drugs off feeling flowery and prize, I enticing and distracting, and it still takes discipline in me still now, when I look at the world of- labour, a undo what I might classify as the motive individualism egocentric em. I still find it kind of wow appealing and I'm a professional, and I have intention and ambition, I see the way that you run a media organization, nothing while this is really so successful,

I still am stimulated and attracted to versions of success, but the dish it is now. I understand how hardly and I fully accept that there is nothing exe I that can ever make me feel resolve, fulfilled or complain that, if I'm ever to feel connected valued and valuable away can aware, though I have to live on of meaning and purpose. Now, even though you speak about your own background, you hide a set of traditional values that are accessible to sure did in my wham from like a single parent family religion wasn't so by the forefront of our sort of cultural life. I'm done giving them. That just means. That's the thing you get given. You just issued that on entry on arrival, there's no like a study, exams or outfits required. You know, rally wasn't like something that was particular thinking about. This is in any way may this. This dovetails with

kind of ideological told is used, often in recovery from addiction, the belief that most people are craving spiritual, fulfilment in some way purpose, meaning a sense of community togetherness fan is justice that perhaps these values are not entirely cultural but somehow inherent and those of Us grow up without them might try to synthesize those values. By becoming six for all by becoming a heroin addicts by becoming the vote it athlete or by the hanging around strip clubs. We all looking for meaning purpose. Now, an m for me pleasure, kind of a palliative. You know why really navies purpose, but the culture does not promote these kind of messages. The culture, in my opinion, promotes individual Lissom materialism, rationalism scientists him if it can be measured then it isn't there. For me, I was a devoted e of a particular culture. Culture tells you

come successful. All the while I had these kind of spiritual inclinations and yearnings, but I didn't know how to process them. I didn't buy really mentor until I got clean from drugs and alcohol and because those things are so appealing and attractive, you know commonality celebrity it took up. took a why it took being any I'm very fortunate few privileged about the experience of the red carpet in the flesh in their adulation, because now I recognise ogier I've been there still now, though Ben I can see a picture of myself in a situation of celebrity from ten years or whether something, oh, my god, look so appeal, being a cool. This without was, must have mentioned. thing, but I remember I remember the is empty and for people at most we'll let you know when you take those famous surveys that abandoned about young people who want to be celebrities, they want to be famous, they don't care what they famous for their own. We famous

I wonder how my love my indifferent, if I have understood that purpose in meaning can be connected with internally and all that you acquire externally, whilst it might provide gratification pleasure, is not good fun being poor. I can personally vouch for that. In these things are not the solution to spiritual problems, I totally agree with so much that I get more into just one second. First, let's talk about your internet privacy and Eddie, I'm worried about it, but let me tell you the truth: I'm worried about mine and securities there's some system some system some. Second, it was because I don't know what to do. I'm just on Burma here on panicking frantic and I'm so glad you asked Russell its Express BP and have even read that fine print that appears when you start browsing, incognita mode. It says your activity might actually still be visible to your employer or your school or your eye sb. How can they even call incognito to really stop people from seeing the sites you visit. You need to do what I do. A news express Vps think all the times you used wifi and a coffee shop, a hotel, even at your parents house, without Express Bbn every site you visit

be logged by the advent of the network that still true even when you are in incognito mode. What's more, your home internet browser, you can also see in recorder browsing data and in the U S, legally allowed to sell that data to advertisers expressly paeonies the athletic groups. All of your network data rerouted through a network of servers, so your private outline activity stays just that Private Express phoebean works in earlier devices. Super easy to use. The EP literally has a button like one. It happened to connect. Your browsing activity is now secure from prying eyes. Want anybody else using your internet activity, do everything on the internet. Why would you want anyone else? Have access to that stuff, so strangers Invader online privacy protect yourself and Express gps dot. Com lifespan again use my link expressed begins outcomes like men get three extra money for free. That's the ex pr S, VP enzyme, life bend, learn more, So I totally agree with you. I think that when it comes to what the media have have, pushed upon us in what what society modern society pushes so much a it's. This idea that there are all

sort of ersatz solutions for the hole in your heart that has left when there is the natural inclination for spirituality and for spiritual connection, and what I have said is that that the lack of God Poland are hardened we're trying to fill that with a wide variety of things in and for a lot of people. That is stimulus for a lot people? That is, that a sacks for a lot of people, that is politics in and the substitution of sort of political polarisation or tribal identification for any sort of of spiritual connection mission purpose, I it's really easy to make that mistake, especially in a society that, as you say, tends to measure thing on a very data driven level that happiness equals this number of dollars, plus this number of lovers, plus this amount of of this number of houses was this many twitter followers and the reality is that none of that is a substitute for the sword, meaning and purpose that I'm in pretty much

the philosopher since the dawn of time has been searching for yes and well we're in some ways you only qualified to speak about it empirically from an individual perspective, is clear that many of these values are culturally endorsed to an almost entirely to the point of saturation. I feel, like you, know, I've light I dont get Tik, Tok to regular universal. We use up. I've looked at it and I felt like my God, the velocity, the potency now of that message, the power of it. I found it difficult not to look up pornography. When I was an adolescent when it was analogue rags founding pages in bushes. Now your pocket is a portal to limitless, picks, elated digital sex. costs available a moment's notice, how Are you? Gonna evolve a sophisticated loving and empathetic sexuality. When bombarded with that amount of stimulation.

Servant and I and I suppose you could, from dietary perspective, from a technological and pornographic perspective, new short, these markers, I wonder where they are more insidiously present in culture around ideas, ashes economics. I wonder where else we be. Lake hypnotized, seduced and guided by cultural message in there is not beneficial to individuals and is not in tune with, even if you don't believe in creation of divinity how we evolved to live? So, let's start for second about your sort of view of spirituality, so that a lot of folks out there, who they themselves were spiritual, but not religious, connected to something deeper, but not sure exactly or or not, really even directed toward exactly what? How did? How does your virtuality, define yourself, you talk that meaning and purpose. What would you say?

your sort of meaning is where, where do you find meaning? Well, I find the rubric through which my spirituality is lived and understood is fortunately quite practical. In the I mean recovery from addiction and what that gives you is a set of principles and an ongoing so of almost sickly ecosystem that you can live with him that the first step in these twelve CIS as twelve step systems Ben, is surrender I don't know what to do any more. My life is got problems in it and I don't know how to control it. The second step is about, but having hope that change is possible for you as an individual love, people fall down there. Whether isn't of chemical dependency or changing behaviour or more broadly cause. I can test these messages are somewhat perennial and could be applied anywhere in life. A lot of people think the world cannot change human beings. essentially no defined vice of cruelty, coldness, selfishness, aware that these things are be designed for

individual, but I think a socially applicable, so the second step, having made there's a problem, the second step is believing chinese possible. The third step is coming to believe that power greater than yourself can restore this. The third powers, the thirsty excuse me is made a decision to turn our will and our life over the care of God, as we understood God, that's of completely open to interpretation. There are people in twelve step groups from a variety of religious backgrounds and no religious background at all. For me, it means is the set of values and systems I come up with in my head off, if not arbitrary somewhere of my conditioning and my impulses and instincts which Ike do with some guidance on already made. There's a problem, I believe, is boss,

change. Now I get ready to accept help each one of these steps can be really unpacked quite deeply and applied. I think, almost universally term as if these contain loss Amid blindly ness excessive attachment unwillingness to accept for that, we have a finite life here. I think they're really really powerful tools moist onto why did for may I always had a sense of look. I am, I always embraced mystery. Drug addicts usually do if you ve, taken psychedelic and had the kind of experiences the baying juice, if you feel the kind of despair and loss and loneliness, thou, love, attics feel and the kind of conditions that becoming a drug addict introduce you to. They create criminality and in the economy in those of cliche desperation that one might encounter it in a sense it opens you up to the possibility of God was nothing

the name. You know what I know you look like you, don't know. Your religious manner notion that you know feel itchy in that. You know scripture about suffering it like I'm, not making claims to Jobe levels of suffering but to be introduced. God on that level of knowing I am weak on my own, I am weak. I need something, powerful in my life, Miss Mayfield. Just by my ego and my a trivial desires. I will leave a pay, a trivial life. I need something powerful and now I dont know, if applicable, to anyone. Sure many of your view is religious, I'm sure many of them are atheistic, I'm sure many of them individualistic area, is pointless even really to speculate. But for me personally, I need to feel that there is beauty that there is love there is a kind of glory and I think whether we're talking about life of the six of Marvel movies in the way they introduce archetypes in grand themes or the kind of tensions that we feel politic

sometimes or the epidemic of mental health problems and opiate addiction in your country. Currently this for me is demonstration of the yearning, the need for real change, in my humble opinion, and a good knows, I know your opinion differs from a Cadiz problems cannot resolve within the limit framework of current political discourse. We need to invite meaning and purpose and if not more directly, God back into the compensation of how we construct society in how we organise systems of governance and even exchange so I mean I, I totally agree with so much of that and when it comes to the role of government, I think that's where we sort disagree, because I think that a lot of this is to be done on this, shall level, and I think that also how we sort of orient ourselves toward the world around us is really important thing, and so the question I would ask when, when you talk about spirit already finding meaning finding purpose. If you go back to sort the classical philosophers, you go back to earth

He talked a lot about teleology touch, my the idea that that, using your reason, you can discover kilos in the universe, natural law that governs the universe, and what he really means by. That is that if there are and things that are designed to achieve certain purposes than you'll live your happiest light. If you recognize what those are, then you live in continents with that. Now that can we need the ugly places, depending on on how rationalistic you get I mean Aristotle. At the same time, it is promoting the idea of freedom Rationality is, at the same time promoting the idea that their actual hierarchies of human beings, in which some people should be held to slip, is so to see how the sort of logic can lead to the wrong places. On the other hand, I you know the attempt to sort of disconnect the world from any sort of purpose. Disconnect the world from a teleology also leads you, certainly city, the nihilism in despair that we see. So how do you feel this sort of middle ground in as to what think are the rules for the road? What what do you think the rules for the road should be for an individual and what the rules for the road should be in terms

a society and then in terms of government, because I think those are three separate categories and I think that very often are mostly sort of political. Linking conflates. All three is like what I like for individuals when I also want to government to do, or what I want society to do is what I want the government to do, and I think it's pretty important sort of tease out what we should expect from each one of those serve categories, individuals, society and government in these free areas. there are several of rules for an individual, the rules for society in the rules of a government. Yes, of course, they're out like at scale. Many simply sticks ideologies, begin to walk and break down and I'm aware of you- and I know that you're aware of me- and we ve had a conversation before you know, and what I feel is the I would anticipate perhaps serve me

The comments I get under leave, my own Youtube Channel is that lobby will see with English, I'm maybe like a communist or something, and a communist, of course in furs, highly empowered, centralized state- and this is not what I believe in a tall I'm. I believe that all of us have a right to live in a constitutional, Thomas Pain, type territory all have a right to pursue happiness and freedom. I don't think that can be possible under certain conditions. I don't think it can be impossible if there are, if there is the imposition of unconscious hierarchies, I dont think it can be possible if there is too much centralized state power intervening in the lives of individuals, and I don't think it can be. simple any more, when we are aware of the variety of and diversity of wise, that there are to be,

human. It seems like even when you want something from history. A hundred years ago there was more tribalism nation. There was an acceptance of balkanization separation and light, took it about timetable quite fraught with war, genocide and horror, of course, but will what we did not have, then is this kind of in a cultural, and indeed culture where there is a kind of presumed set of morals ethics. Norms that are imposed over everybody that the people we are all trying to appeal to a set of values that often seem at odds with our individual freedom.

let me put it a little more positively. I feel that this so many different ways of being now that we need to decentralize wherever possible. We need to accept that there are people who have entirely different sets of beliefs and values from one another and just because they are different. It doesn't mean that they not right- and I would like you know, I'm sure- look mean you could probably get into arguments about gun control about Pro life pro choice about Israel, palestine- is I'm sure this. So many things that you and I would argue about I'd rather not have those arguments, because I think Europe very very skilled rhetorician, and I think that when one is very good at argued something. You can win arguments without necessarily being right. A my feeling is that when we are so different from one another, we gonna, what? Why are we trying to centralize are we trying to create these huge dominions whence so many varied people are being asked to live a homogeneous Ized normalized central?

and ultimately, as a result of that or press lifestyle as an end of it I want to be, who I am I've, always been of a kind of arch individualist just by default, and only then can where people share my values and their free choice freely. I don't think that we as essentially evolved advanced, enlightened, potentially divine Primates can live in communities of millions. Hundreds of thousands of all we should live in a when we spoke before Ben, and you talked about how your offer those community is established around the synagogue around the central set of values built around famine in community and shared beliefs of old bears a law in that law in that, and I feel at heart, community he's need a shared purpose. You know I'm a big fan of Sebastian younger book rates. It try boy talks about this or the experience that service be have when they come home, the loss of purpose, the loss of meaning, because in our crazy world,

being in the military in the in combat is a closer approximation of how we evolved. leave the living in a bland, nihilistic, urbanized, empty, hollowed out culturally vacuous consumerist culture. So you know, like we're: gonna have weird diverse, varied ways of living, and I think that in a sense of long for Ben- and I love you input on this- that we almost don't need. I had a wonderful quote once the world doesn't need more people to believe in God. Just for those of us that, due to stop acting like it and I think by the world, doesn't need new ideas, democracy, constitutional rights, just these existing ideas to be lived out correctly, so individuals and freedoms and societies have a degree of autonomy

They were possible on an acceptance that people of different people have different values. Why we create, in all these hot button, points to quarrel and argue over while, if, in my opinion at least the bed, the dominant problem the sign that there's a small straw of society, a individuals and institutions that have ah largesse over web site is organised and most people call leaning over crumbs. So again, I feel the were agreeing a lot here, because it did the attempt to sort of homogenized society then demanded everybody lives. The same way I think, is really disrupted and you can see it in the United States and is one of the reasons why I fear the idea of a centralized power, particularly in government, because government, in my view, actually, a gigantic gone and basically, whoever controls. The gun. Controls, however, must not slip is when I prefer. The begun, basically be a very, very tiny, p shooter that is directed in very specific terms

trends and people who are attempting to you act of harm to other people. Otherwise I want that gun to really be there, because I don't want that gun pointed at me and I feel I should be pointing the gun at anybody else, localism in income. Terrorism, but in local communities, as opposed to trying to broaden out universality in universalistic fashion. I think that that is one of the answers is the sort of decentralization Were that we're talking about nothing did mewing. I agree very much on that and an end honest. I am unhappy to keep the conversation at the level that were that we're going here and the reason for that is because I've always suggested the polluter conversations usually are taking place on sort of the top of the iceberg. Rights have were everytime gun control there, a bunch of values that are below gun control that people are actually arguing about when their argument, gun control and those arguments are things about the name, Human beings are, human beings, naturally are dangerous to one another, that here's to have guns in self defence or two human beings have in individual right to keep it there. arms and, to what extent do those rights conflicts if those rights now

stand. You more more dangerous weaponry, read it that those are underlying values conversations. I think that the more interesting conversations are the ones that go directly to the underlying values, rather than the ones that take place on the top of the ice against a second. I want to ask you some of those underline guys, particularly with regard to human nature, because I totally agree with you that did that human beings are living in a wide variety of ways. Now I think that there, a human tendency which is to see body else as a threat to you and that drives people to want to control everybody else's way of life so as to prevent those people from threatening them and so well. I am a big fan had erogenous living and indifferent communities living as though there have to be certain baseline. agreements about things like human rights. Individual rights only ask about that in just one. Second, first time for you to buy life insurance, I'm panicking and panic about me life. What happens if a diver seismic kids, I mean a yours,

this will person Russell, and that is why I am sure you already have life insurance to protect. Your children actually know tell me what's so towards you should not be making. It is time for you to buy, if insurance very serious human being. I need to make sure that you know if you plots your family is taken care of, and this month a lot going on your father's. They lag day national Yoda, thankfully policy geniuses gonna, make it easy to cross life insurance of that. If somebody relies on your financial support or there's a child, an aging parent, even a business partner, you need life. Insurance genius makes it easier to compare quotes from over a dozen top insurers. All in one place. Why compare? Well you could fifty percent or more on life insurance policies by comparing quotes with policy genius? You could say that hundred bucks or more per year on life insurance by using genius to compare policies. The licensed exports of policy genius word for you don't work for the insurance companies, so you can trust them to help you navigate every single step of the shopping and by

process. That kind of service has earned policy genius and excellent rating on trust pilot. Getting started. Super simple first had to policy genius tat come in minutes. You can work out how much life insurance coverage. We need an compare, personalized boats to find your best price, when you re to apply a policy genius team will handle the paperwork and scheduling for free policy, never cells, your information to other companies, House easiest, doesn't add on extra fees and over the policy genius don't come, get started right now: policy genius. When it comes to insurance, it's nice to get it right. already. So let's talk about a couple of things that you mentioned. We talked about sort of the belief in in human potential and the ability to to live lives of meaning and purpose and the the problems with the great institutional power, and I think that there is that their two separate topics and I'd like to dive into them, one at a time when it comes to human beings. One of these are of classical traditions, and this is true in judeo christian traditions, also true in sort of ancient greek philosophy and instruments, most western history and even in his lot in the islamic world, there there's this belief that there is

Nothing is an innate human nature and that you run up against challenges in an age human nature and at what civilization is really about. Whatever your phone civilization is- is tailoring yourself to the demands of human nature society around you- and I think that is a very different view of what I entity wise than what identity has now become. There's a view that it is now very prevalent human beings are entirely self created that were completely malleable. We can be whatever we want to be and that what we are Jim for is not a way of living in the world, but instead in it authenticity and then we demand that everybody around a sort of mirror frantic view of ourselves and into me there that is dangerous and prevents us from living in a society, because in order for us to actually shares his eye, even in a small community. We have and the rules of the road and that there are limits. What I can demand of you

So I want to know from from you. How do you see human nature? I sort of as religious person have the the both optimistic and pessimistic view of human nature that that human beings is, as James Madison put it in in federalist papers are capable of being both angels and devils, which is why they require some societies due to shape and move them. And then there are the sort of recently in view that human beings are naturally good ineffectually them all and I'll, be fine. What is your view on that? I suppose my from my personal expire from my own reading out half do, if not conclude, currently reside in Nepal, where I see an amalgamation of these ideas. There is no question when you knew, We you and I in our ways of both cultural commentators and the reason we contain on

because we're recognising that culture has power to shape and form influence and mode behaviour. If it has that power then likely. Therefore, we are to a degree. A product of this cultural, sculpting or manipulation is but I also believe- and this I suppose comes from- I What mystical and perhaps even esoteric perspective, but there s an innate awareness within us. I believe that that is to use a word, you earlier. I tell us that in the same way, we must appreciate that I see the planted and correctly nurtured will find its formation and fulfilment as a particular kind of plan or tree an icon will, given the current conditions, become an oak tree fast.

is that in its nature, they awesome inherent values that are being expressed once human beings is a highly socialized there are so many ways of expressing through we are certain values are promoted necessarily, son traits instincts are denied control, inhibit it prohibited in some cases, and that would seem to be a prerequisite of order and Ben. I would refer to an early of our conversation that already wherein it into territory, when no one can claim objectivity that no one can claim to have a unique inside an war. All of us is religious people. Doing ovens thing, though I believe, I'm interpreting a divine sublime and absolute will and an M people that now culturally, from an academic or scientific perspective bases reality from a religious perspective. No, this is reality. My feeling is that, well, I feel

this is the real. These are my values. This is how I would like to live. I very strongly one thing I believe they most strongly is that my spiritual values are for me. They are to make me a bet person in the world so that I am non judgments also, I am compassionate, so I am cut kind, so I am understanding so that I don't think them. I've used my values, my will and the most important thing in the workers are recognising myself that there are states when that is how I feel that their estates in May, when all I care about, is what I want and what I believe and I require a degree of openness of flu. We did take the ability to learn, alter change evolve. I recognise that there are people too, a wholly different perspective on the role of genetics and biology and identity, I reckon I recognise that against your point early about the underlying, values as opposed to the Tipp of the iceberg of no. Why try to do when I am in a position? If thou is, is I ask again or

vesting again, what do I mean by God? What do I mean by love and if I can somehow rationalize something is potentially nebulous and diffuse as love? Why means a cent of union of oneness, whether I love a football team or a country or a pair of shoes or my partner or my kids, is a sense that we are somehow hole, and one and part of my spiritual journey is to find a perspective where I feel this oneness. This pretended he brotherhood sisterhood with as many people potentially with all people, though, when I disagree with them, recognize that there is a one this that there is a shared sense of community and the more we understand about the universe and dark matter and potential other life forms the more. It seems a preposterous for me to augment for a fire and hung down in positions of Opposition is women, contrary nazism and conflict. So for me, I reckon

so many things about me that seem peculiar and unique. I recognise that there are things about me that same universal when it comes to power and the issuing of edicts. While I most strongly believe in it we have talked earlier. Localism and community live around people that want to leave the way that I want to live, and I my prairies that there are set of universal principles that, wherever you fall on these various spectra of identification, whether these also of traditional paths, conventional ideas or very modern ideas if week have recourse to. Why call Sesame Street ethics, kindness, compassion, tolerance, and it really is not an above me- isn't gonna bother me because you mean: ok yeah. You can express yourself and be yourself. However, you want to be and when we are uniting out little tagging terms like Universal, surely what but I dont harm other people. Don't take other people stuff. Let me

for live, how they want to live and is very difficult because in because there are certain platform, structures and institutions that have been set up, particular ways. As you know, our mutual friend acquaintance, J P would say what culture does is, but creates biases, its dominant all majority population. That's what it's supposed to do. What else can I do this it, and this is where we get to the question that I was asking about what eating the rules of the road offers society. So I agree with you that, on a general individualistic level that you know these are basic rules for them. treat other people with decency be nice to other people that those go along I'm not sure that they go all the way, because you do eventually run into areas where you are demanding from somebody else that your version of niceness is actually a demand on them, and this happens all the time in societies. Net brings you to the question of what are the rules of the road for society, a sort of bland universalism can can sometimes actually degrade into adamant

even if all you demanded everybody is be nice to one another. And then everybody has its objective definition of what niceness is ran, his in meat being loyally, some people's version of this involves, I have to go, example? Violet, my own religious scruples in order to content will be nice and maybe My version of niceness is that you have to leave me alone to perform my religious scruples and Miss bothers you in some way? What are the real for road when these said when these sort of values coming conflict with one another. Is the question for how societies lived together, because you So I m is, is really nice on sort of ants are vague level, but, as we see in western societies and unless there is some even more deeply rooted, values, in terms of what societies are meant to do. What sort of vat Do we wish to promote? Do our kids, then it's pretty easy for all of us to fall apart. On contact with reality and other human beings? Well, what I feel Ben- and this might drive you and I are potentially out an income- is that somewhere between

the otter, migration and the universalism some into meat gradients, if scale a my feeling is, is if there are a set of cultural values that are at odds with my own, then, if they can be run cohesion ITALY, and in a contained manner, without influence in the service, Is that I hold then I it's none of my business is none of my business. Even if I disagree that as I was, indicates you things are happening. My own life remain household died. I don't agree with by recognising that acknowledge and respect the autonomy of, for example, my wife like take something's relatively prosaic other, nor in the cook The communities that day, if I these ideas on vague and on vague and because I you we ve, been vegetarian. Got precedent of egotism I love animals. Being I gotta, you know. I love my dogs right here. Now: ok, fair enough, be vague and we can now leave me alone have become very again, but I'm not, but my

if he's not a vague and right now, I suppose it's me, you make your wife a vague in a well let's, just always this a feminist counter argument you might want to bring making my wife a vague and yes, I like I'm, not trying to impose more paganism, let my kids are vegetarian. I tell him like hey, look some people de animals and sometimes my kids. They say stuff, you know your father, he here the stuff that comes out these people border, barbarians by our. Sometimes these late human beings, I'm ready, maybe that's just market kill, I'd like to kill the ok, ok, ok, For me, I will now we born. We die some people, don't believe in God. I do believe in God some people, most, I don't believe in animal. Some people believe this. I believe this. I can only give you my set of values. I've been charged with the job of her parenting, parentheses? I'm gonna provide bracket Do you I'm gonna? Let you be who you are and I'm going to offer you the best I've got knowing I'm wounded, knowing I'm floored, knowing that I don't actually really know Iver open

Let me now, I love him all the time they shouts often pay they style in shock me with their ruinous beauty someone's, I think they are closer to the source than I am. Maybe they may be. Private life is a journey moving away from this divine life rather than towards it, but bend to this point conflict here we know where leads it leads to war, is the cultural or at least military war, when cultures can agree on a set of values, and this is again went onto about space centralization. You know this is something that may be What wrangle with their patriotism? The chimneys is somewhat embedded in your vote in Trans right, baby Gimme that ban Gimme that ban Gimme. That germanic philosophical term is the is the what? If the United Kingdom is not of services, a significant number of people in the United Kingdom. What is United Kingdom who benefit series benefit if the United States is no longer beneficial to us?

never gonna? Why have the United States one have true confederacy one? I have true me: why not have true devolution devolve power wherever possible? Now what happens sovereignty whenever you bring up these things? sovereignty muscles. In its old argument, you need ass to protect you. If you don't have ass, Heaven terrorists are coming then the dog mrs coming out of suggesting Don't have you mean municipality in communication, rail systems in all the many other things I simply don't have time to reflect on cause. I don't have enough good IRAN Em, but why was that his? Where possible? Let people run lives, you know, is more and more Ben. I find myself agreeing with levied libertarianism and agreeing with darker cynical ism. Yes, the rights of the individual. By some we have responsibility one another. You know that you're religious man with them we got children. We are here to love one another and whence I guess politicized into welfare of I've. I've heard your discourse around subjects around so welfare

Two mentality is simpler than this is probably the area where I would spinner seem compared. Lsd you might more kind of help. People of me, I don't have been a bleeding heart liberal for me, like there is less of a great power in believing in God, like a mite a glory, we can change the world, we can create a better world. It doesn't have to be like this, even in your case, you said you know: you're gonna have to obey this because people of drift and also a bad habit. I mean I'm paraphrasing her but like this is the kind of responsibility we have as individuals, and I think we should undertake it and in good faith in good faith to one and a half hour. Ok, you from a different worlds. May you go loads, different beliefs to me, but I'm not gonna, look to make. You my enemy, I'm gonna. joy and love the things about you that I agree with and see where we can find ways to live in

harmoniously answer Russell. I think that this is where to me, the great Greece in the wheel that allows what you're talking about to happen is a certain set of societal rules that are more informal than formal and imposed from the top. second, I want to ask you about where the car like two cars, how we create the society reach that allows us to live with each other while disagreeing with each other about a wide variety of things? First, let's talk about your sleep quality. I'm exhausted, they I'm not any sleep Ben, I'm wide awake all night. The shouting healing wait. My friend when I am travelling one of the promised me as I can't sleep as well as I do in my own, but why well because when I am home, I'm on a mattress made just for me, he looks sleep if that equates to just two minutes, to complete a matches. Your body type in sleep references to the perfect mattress for you Why would you buy a mattress made for someone else with helix you're? Getting a mattress you know will be perfect for the way you sleep, everybody's unique. He looks knows that they have several different mattress models to choose from and that soft medium for mattresses, mattresses, great for calling you down. If you sleep pot, even a helix plus mattress,

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is world where I think this this philosophy tends to come into conflict with the real world. One is broaden the definition of harm pretty dramatically, so there is the John Stuart Mill, harm principle that I get to waive my fist around until a hit you in the face, at which point I've harm you, broadened out harms include things like emotional harm or indirect harm in this leads to be more claims of me against you right now. I get to make claims anew because maybe your threatening my I'll stay maybe refusing to accept my authenticity. Maybe my belief is that the economic for whatever reason is falsified, you believe it zero sum game and so making money it's, because I'm somehow taking money away from use, there's the broadening of harm as it financial prince. and then there is also the problem that you, alluding to earlier, which is that you have a couple of kids. I have three kids and, as you say, children are little barbarians right. Children are innocent and their wonderful and cute and they are horrible little people either, do all day long is, is due extraordinarily selfish. Things

which way do by some of the key to suffer. You ever seen in your life like if you, if you met a forty year old, who acted like a four year old, they would be under throw right if it for europe- have the capacity to actively wheeled weapons, half the, but they will again. I was half the world. Population would be gone and I speak as the father of a seven year old, a five year old in one year old, in that they get their wonderful. I love them, but the purpose of civilization. The purpose of parenting is in fact, to provide islands, and so it's easy to be sort of culturally libertarian ash and and allow for a lot of subjectivity and how people live their lives when you're is your own child. Obviously, you want to set boundaries for that, and also we have to, I think, define harm means pretty narrowly in order to allow for people to live their lives in where she s going to. Finally, I is enormous cisely the opposite direction. What we are defining harm extremely broadly to the point: where mirror is now considered harm, dictating that I'm gonna go get

government or any use societal pressure in order to actively destroy you, your career, your family and, at the same time, dictating to people that actually parenting your kids, societal institution, societal value, civilization of values that I used to guide children are, in fact a form of bad indoctrination that did it only we should be able to educate your kids in the way. But we see fit. So how do you can a square? The circle in terms of Allow you to live their lives. For me, it's define harm very narrowly and allow a pretty broad parental remit. When it comes to how you bring. your children so long as again, you're, not indoctrinated them in in truth, violent harm or in in your speech agents in which they are likely to be harming themselves? Because we adoption you more than kids and you should already know the rules of the road regiment. I'm sure that your teaching your daughter's, not to dwell

the things that you did when you are young, that's what means being an adult writes a difference between being an adolescent and being an adult. I completely agree with the obligations of apparent, I feel perhaps some of these said to pirate appoint made earlier that sometimes these ideas that work within the institution of the family are mapped onto a cup culture and society. And what better analogy could there be for the notion of patriarchy other than those in power, a kind of like a banal Ireland disciplining, but ultimately loving father, an idea that is clearly vocally being challenged and rejected.

I know that there are. There is certainly loads of things been that you could say to me. That would really hurt me like I'm. I would feel that we have a kind of contract and amend paths are things I could take. It would hurt you. You seem quite like a robust guy. Of course, I and you'd have to be to do what you do, and I respect you for that, but I would if I for I said something that hurt you. I would not like I would not like him an I apply that anybody, if I dont want people to be in pain, I dont want people to suffer and who am I to impose a definition

of harm upon them again. A return to this point of a centralized idea of what America or nation, or even a set of ideals, are. How can we all be expected to harbour one another's diverse sets of ideals? Why should we live on in this frontier of ongoing conflict, when we could just accept that you know a good except what seems to us personally unacceptable, except for where its bloody, obviously you don't kill harm imposed. Takeaway people's rights are concerned all of these kind of in a kind of obvious ethics and valleys. It lay there is so much an emergent conflict and sometimes I think it's a confection. Sometimes I think these cuts two wars knew what I want to say: inflated promoted escalated to prevent us from talking about. Will you and I are blessedly discussing today underlying values so with harm? I recognise there are some things No I'm a comedian. So when I mean that space in my head,

in an hour, not their particular headaches. If, when you do the outreach than us real up You never humor than real opportunity, and I want to get in there with you in a bomb in us of an open space where I feel more, I want to do, is understanding and be giving it giving two ungenerous to you, even though, as we have both listed above surely aware There are lots of stuff, though I'm we would disagree on and that we will be able to feel an hour on every single one of those subjects if we so chose to and when I hear your children or your religion or your wife, I feel like we deviate Europe's basic. The same is me and limited space you're gonna die luck. In a dialogue with a quarrel about the stuff we do agree on. You know so for me, this idea of how me I can see how some people- come from community VA historically, as a result of their cultural, ethnic or racial identity are traumatized. For me, that seems like a very, very real thing. I've spent some time studying it part as much as you by the EU in here.

Pain and trauma me emotionally and mentally, spiritually, physically and obviously economically seems like a very real thing in forms of visual. I I tend to tear in matters. I feel that the subjective experience for all of us is by nature a mystery under in areas of complexity, income and fusion. My purse- no choice would be to when the Lord allows it to err on the side of ok? I don't want to hurt anybody. I I feel like if I leave the rest of my life about,

in another person. Without another person, walking away from an individual may feel in that I feel cheapened or not heard or not who they are. Then I fill up I'm good. I have a connection to God, so I got everything I need. I'm not looking for out here. No more, I don't wanna be pulled back out there. I want us in this time of division and of an fragmentation and fracture to find ways of coming together in peace, coming together with paste. That's why I'm tryin to candy so enchanting around which surround China people. I agree with a lot of talk to people where there are areas. concern at discontent and downright disagreement and find ways that we can harmonise and live together, because I'm coming to live in your house with you, I'm not gonna start guided, and what did you do this with your kids and bridge maybe he'll know gonna do the same with me. So is hypothetical? Is hypothetical over the people that these subjects are real people to feel challenged about?

why they all the wipe it out and if I often eats I must admit I cannot comprehend or understand it, but as best I can that's part of what they are saying by saying you don't understand. You done. Is that ok Ok, I want people to be happy. I don't want to hurt anyone. So when I found in these areas of complexity, I think where in me, can I find love where in me can I find love and where is the real power here then this is what I returned to one. Another so seems like an evolved postmodern of marxist idea that, but I feel that the obligation lies with where the power is. If you all right, if the women are powerful corporations, powerful, media businesses, powerful institutions, There will be the book. This is the issue. You can't anything like you know. If you we could fiddling with all these little pipsqueak quarrelling about stuff down there. The real issue is: who gets the dama? Who gets to decide on the geopolitical on national political level, the kind of lives there we are?

going to leave the kind of resources we're gonna, have access to and not have access to an, although systems in themselves not visit moribund, broken corrupt redeem, this? In my opinion, in your country and mine, when I hear you criticise power, I agree with you sometimes when I hear you criticise what, in my view, are people that are less powerful? This is where I find myself no in alignment with your perspective. I say this with respect, notice it is really important idea. I want to get into it in just one second about how we hold people accountable and a power game, or is it really a principle games? I do think that that is a really deep sort of philosophical divide that happening right now. First, let's talk about how you can make your employees happier, I can find better employees for your come from a garage you do need to know that I give your business is growing. You need a fast, easy way to fill open positions. fine, but people if your business owner hiring, you probably face a lot of challenges.

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you're searching thousands Erasmus, but this is wiser. Procureur is so valuable, while other companies overwhelm you with wage many options. Zipper could will find you what you're looking for a needle in a haystack and right now you can try zip recruited for free at this web. Address, zip, recruiter, dot com, Slash Ben guest once again remember to go to this unique magical place, Zippers Outcomes, Ashby n gee you he asked he zipper. Color is indeed the smartest wit higher already. So let's talk for a second about sort of this. This idea that I think has as crept into the public discourse recently that the the chief goal- of of politics and political discussion, and maybe philosophic discussion is connected with power. So this whole conversation we ve been talking mainly on the individual level when it's a thing where I think we find tremendous agreement, because a lot of the principles that you personally hold about personal responsibility taken responsibility for your own life and and recognise

but you have agency in your own life and, at the same time acknowledging the you may not have all the moral answers within yourself, but you may have to look to external sources for all of that. There we share a broad base of agreement. I tend to treat the question of morality as an individual one, and so for me, it's much less a question of power dying, MAX. Then it is a question of what somebody is acting a morally or not so. To take an example, there's a broad, I should obviously happening in the United States- is now extended over to the UK about the definition, their definition of races now used to be that the definition of racism was fairly well understood by everybody. It was the bean alleys back in the nineteen fifties and Sixtys, because we are seeing a practice on a daily level and the legal are legally encoded in law in many places in the United States. It was a believer inferiority inferiority or superiority of a particular group of people based on race. Right now is the definition of racism. now the definition of racism has been shifted and there's this different conversation taking place in which the notion is that it's not just that sent

and it is systems of power in general that end with unequal outcome, must therefore be racist or, alternatively, that only p. with. Power can be raised, so if your powerless and you are Did it again, somebody else you might be He did but really not reasons, because real racism in the real challenge of racism isn't a challenges. The human heart that we all have to fight, sort of individual fight that you have in order to live a more virtuous I felt life or the same fight that I have really it's a question of power dynamic. This is where I start to get very sceptical of of some of the definitional issues here, because to me, if morality is now disconnected from individual action or or even solving individual problems and in a move up to the level of only people with power are. One in terms of how they are morally or all inequalities of of outcome. the results of an imbalance of power at the top. I dont think that the logic hole

Nor do I actually think that the logic is particularly moral. I think that power can appear in many forms. I was born without much access to finance fuel resources. I grew up in ordinary single parent family member. However, there is no real resources. Does it a degree of welfare now? I, however, though, was born with I've. Fortunately, construing sentence together until a joke under pressure, I can read how's skill set the vested in the society. I was born into values and through new opportunity harder, whether by even the hard work I was born with this because leaving God I didn't give myself the ability to work hard to give myself the ability to keep doing stand up comedy for nothing above pops year after year. People literally frying objects. At me,

going and key God I like, even though that was but the tough old task I kept going. I can't take personal credit for that. I was seemingly born with the ability, or even if it was a culturally acquired. I think myself, the culture Iver so power. I think your personal power cultural power is like it said there are various ways of approaching and categorizing something as ubiquitous and is difficult to pin down as the ability to get stuff done. If you want it or prevent things happening, if you don't want it now, let one that starts to be light. Lay now a polish culture Ben. I feel that we would have to acknowledge. History would have to ignore the history of Europe country of my country, to take my business against Indiana people to hit my action. If this guy is going to text me without representation going to smash him up, he's going to do next week, Tippy's tea into the Boston, see Dammit

I think that they say the UK. Our wealth was largely accumulate if biology amazed, piracy under the. air, livery and power for, namely of royalty and Monica. If the more you dressed summing up in golden in robes and more likely that was taking place is a crime I feel, like you know, dead to some walked. Contrary countenance one of the things that you mentioned earlier, that often where you find a huge amount of resources, there is a deficit elsewhere, just due to the finite nature of resources, If that, in order to produce their magnificent technology, for which we are communicating now it is necessary that else, on the planet, people are working in conditions and for wages, thou Sub optimal one Uno lightly. Many will make an argument of general progression and the average person Mason the dollar a day and the average lifespan forbade these various of complex alchemists than taking

industrialization and the effect that they had all mortality and many many many things. I don't think that he'll, be looking for ways to differentiate herself from one another I'm condemn one another, I am. I have no choice because of my own spiritual values. If people feel that they are a secure aid and in a manner the icon, but claim to want and because of that the distinctions in my personal experience than I would rather choose the route of compassion, condemnation every time we did something about vos subjects like race in America, with his very particular here. You know we will you- and I have discussed this elsewhere- that just because its ink, seemingly conceivable that a debt of that nature could ever be repaid. Due to the complexity, the number of institutions, corporations, nations, individuals, potentially involved dive for me that does not for clothes, the idea or via

of reparations, and while we using the word like foreclose what the hell went on in two thousand and eight, there were aware, regardless of rice, ordinary people, poor people in the main, because who suffers always, therefore that were ripped off scan by people who never it seems, face the consequences of their reckless actions. Exploitation is happening. It seems on a large scale to have a high rock or society you, gotta have a bunch of smash most near the bottom. That you're going to explain more than five in one another on account of the books they read when they try to try to out of the unknowable or the way they feel about themselves and their identity, or there are sexually. If we spend our time squabbling about that, there's gonna be no reorganization and how I would take this EU bodies. I feel like that. You have power, and I don't mean this in terms of pops, how the compensation is paid out. The power of your person,

quality, your ability or willingness, your determination in your certainty and for me I don't know you know, of your religious man, and you understand your religion deeply. But for me the point of my religion is that one might need cope in this world. No, I'm I'm going to everyone. I love is, is gonna die and there is is injustice and there is unfairness and too I wanna be good want to make sure that I've realized myself, and I realize myself as a loving and kind man, and I do well by people. This is the function of my spiritual life. One. To give me a real experience of a reality is not just some cultural concoction, some confection of balderdash in Harry Nonsense, designed primarily to amaze me off into a consumer. To make me a willing stooge in somebody else's game debrief, says happy to settle for the trickled down. No for me God is about. I wanna be embraced reality and I want to be able to actualized my fervent sense that we can create

new and better world for our imagination that we don't need to confine ourselves to. This is the left. This is the right is basically the same, their desks squabble within this tiny window of issues. They look at the underlying values they accept. That is highly like this. Every generation at least probably more there's gonna, be a people polarized Nepal can we come, some solution and a reason- and I think sometimes the reason is so hard to find a solution- is that the people impositions True power, north or a don't want there to be one there perfectly content, even if these nine a half hour no Dracula, also Cabal, shadowy evil way. The I think they're perfectly happy for people to be squabbling about small change. While the big money flies upstream, So you know for me on these mass. Like you know, I could see it by brew. Historical argument, for example, for reparations, are recognized. I can't understand experience

I see now known white person on an ending in a letter like some kid in the Congo, gig dragging copper out a source. I my final word we're all on. I'm mean in this I'm involved in this, and so for me I don't think indeed the Fraser he'll user law, I think his straw man for me to be here on them like even others, a lotta law, badges and la stuff going on for me, the real real they always. How can I be beautiful? How can we challenge real power and I don't wanna be destroyed? I want to be distracted cell. I want to talk about reparations. I don't ask about soon, as I can now we're. Starting talk about things that look more like public policy right now are starting to talk about how you, how you repair breaches of the past- and you know, I think that rely to a certain extent on the reverse of what you're talking about, which is the understand ability of somebody else's experience right. You you're talking about compassion and about empathy here that does require us to not only acknowledge that other people have experiences but to try and understand those experienced is too kind of distance ourselves from those is,

mistake, but in understanding somebody else, experience were eventually going to have judge whether we agree with them about the nature of the life that they are living and I want to ask about that in just one. Second. First, let's talk about your right to self defence. I hear a lot about my right. After fence. It's why I'm a gun owner who knows this? The folks at Bravo Company manufacturing when the founders wrote the constitution. The first thing they did was to make sacred the rights of the individual, and then they said you need to be able to protect that, and so they protected your right to keep and bear arms. Bravo, company manufacturing Bc M bill professional, great product, its built to combat standards. This is because these believes the same level of protection should be provided to every American, regardless of whether a private citizen or approach so the people, a museum, assume that when a rifle leaves their shop it'll be used in a life or death situation. I irresponsible citizen law enforcement officers or a soul. Overseas. I oughta be soon rifle. Let me tell you: it is my favorite gun that I own. It is just to reflect these

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drug addiction right in you back your own sense of agency over your own life. That was the most compassionate thing that ever happened. you. Presumably somebody directed you into that, are helped you into that. Yet a group of people who are supportive of you during that Binkie will regain their own agency in jewish tradition and in most judeo christian tradition. I is, is helping people achieve agencies, they can make their own decisions and so that they can and so they are not deprived of agency or treated as sort of as in a sort of childish fashion. I YO, patriarch, We as you suggest, but instead are given agency over their own lives and- and I feel like a lot of the discussions about compassion- tend to devolve into by compassion. I mean big people with big checks should sign cash over to other people as a whole. Do well. Maybe we need to actually look at the incentive structures, look at human nature and determine what incentive structures in society allow for people to realise their own agency and make decisions on their own that lead to them feeling more free and feeling more more purposeful and

feeling more meaningful life so that that that's question number one and compassion and the second one is gonna. I want to get too. I is gonna, be about the problem of subjective ism. So a couple of times you talk sort of adaptation of society, and back rather individuals and how they live their online and am fully with that up until the point were again the fifth meeting phase, because somebody is claiming that I have harmed them and I have not actually harm them, they're, making a claim upon me and so now going to have to adjudicate whether I believe the deadline is justified or not. There is a big difference between I've, kids, they fight each other all the time. There is in fact, a difference one of my my daughter, is lie about my son hitting her and whether my daughter is not lying about my son hitting her or if they just have a difference of peace. active on how the hitting took place and who,

right and whose rug eat these questions actually do matter, and I'm not sure we can just throw our hands up in the air and say well, nobody can understand one another. So everybody's right, I agree that whilst genetically is clear, there is apparently infinite variety limitless individuality. It seems also to be true that we have hearts lungs, generally speaking century organs, within a broadly speaking, a kind of manner which could be regarded if not as universal, somewhat standardized. So I suppose that at least lays a pathway between us in the base within which the senses operate, that that that that there is the possibility for real communion, that we can look at one another and say on what that person is hurt or person. His angry that we can

recognize that. But you know the this: do you now man Gladwell? Where that book didn't about? We can all misread. Even something was regarded as universal. Establish standardized such as facial expressions as variety culturally, within those things and now my sort of belief, as a kind of I dunno essentially, is that we have souls we're coming from a place of union and of the evil. Make such a claim, even in a vague whimsical way, suggests that there is a means for us to connect to one another and again been so. If I understand that you feel so agitated by the kind of what you regard as a kind of a wheel concoction around, I didn't area, identity area in matters, and I recognize what you were saying. I recognise yet, but I feel I whither that's the kind of clarity of thought that you,

the ability to communicate that you have that. I suppose, in its echo or to repeat simply something I said earlier, is like that when you talk about, you, know: corruption, the relationship between government and corporations, they're here Hocker see the hollowness, an emptiness ever the fat nature. Of much of that communication I find myself are I mean I agree with you, and I think I feel that, where possible we or yield and compassion, yield and be compassionate wherever possible. I'd, let you know, I'm not just took it out of identity. Stuff spoken about like a man. Should the gun where do we stand on guns another? When I lived in America account for all wow man, I could have a gum thus saw a sea whose I think so may I know I went to a gun range, but are we that kind of the idea? This troubled me troubles me to think

the availability of numerous weapons bottom cool when attraction I read- Rogan Alma Vague and I couldn't kill. An animal doesn't seem right to me, I'm not by the way. So if some listless crystal worship in Mystic, I believe in power and standing up for what you believe in situations may. First, selves that require a kind of some serious sacrifice sacrifice. But again I try not to let my attention dwell too heavily on matters that seem almost got their constructive to become a kind of serve a sigh clone of empire of impossibility, the compromising conclusions

We confusion. If people say that they do not lie. I look. I don't know what it's like to be. Anybody else, but me I remember when I thought was given to us in the middle of this year, has senses are not yet evolve. She's in darkness- and I consider that even as the senses come on line and comes together. The curated and my newt aspect of reality that we can appreciate is so limited that an end in part of your own religious belief. The idea that there are dimensions consciousness realms that are inaccessible due to them. limitations of our ability to hold knowledge limitations of our instruments. You're, even we amplify those instruments. Do is too. We can see orally sense dark matter, even if, in the sub particular world, we can see the rules of utopian physics falling apart chuckling our innocence. If this is the physical world, then I'm not going to, I don't want to condemn people for a kind of cultural discourse died. I don't feel like

solution, a lot. I think the solution lies in that direction. Why fuel lackeys? We must be vigorously and vitally lie being. This is why I feel like I know how you can reply to our house, but as a policy, how you gonna run now the library darling like Bobo, who what why fill me, is that, People want to live away. Ok, you live that way. You know how, if we're not talking about three hundred million population, a photograph like the apes, we are hundred fifty population hundred fifty people, you gonna make in broader confederacy, real devolution. The ability of our if that's how you feel you fulfil that you want to educate children that way. Ok, ok, we educate you this way. Ok, like that of amended like in, like that tribes that are not yet modernized, they're, not gonna, be there will be an acceptance that there are cultural differences, that there are culture

differences. I'm I think in America now with a ubiquity and immediacy of this kind of communication. I think we got ourselves hopelessly entangled in matters that are very, very important. Individuals that are expressing them clearly, but for a culture. I think that our focus is gonna, be on finding things that we can agree on and finding ways of tackling the real issues of power, the ability to control and cultural out I just simply don't feel when they say twenty years ago, when the whole debate was much more focused on Islam. And extremism and terrorism like who a boar and condemn violent acts who doesn't boycott guy, fell like where's the real power, which is the real power where is the real power? I e the ability to organise who's got resources who goes where, who yesterday, what that's it? I dont want to be distracted too much in this

the semantic trivia, even though it has great weight and important for some people me as a person outside of it. I wanna be focused in the areas that seem real to me. In can I you know you mention made of some one. Was enough to awaken me from let go drugs now calling show me what it was that I really want it and then a group continue to support me and I continue to stress struggle in permutations if the same issues even now, just like in hopes of some one interview, powerful or important a waiver is, you know I've, but I'm pause. My obligation was you go and other people go and help other people like it like basic, first century christian ideas, feats of the poor feats of the poor and, like all tonne on good distracted? cool little cardigan. All these little necklace on my own narcissism, more how important I might be aware from getting old and which will, of course, play me. I am like this is a waste of time. This is a waste of time, and yet

look. You know, because these businesses were online, we gotta get views you guys, like you know, you have to make an impact, but I feel that path any surely should be presented with people with some. Some hope- and some optimism is in love and being men of God and being men of God does mean being men of compassion, and that does mean will allow I'm not like you and you are clearly clearly different from me. I'm going to come at this from a place of love. You know, and if this gave the first is to face, you learn the Jujitsu so Russell. I want to ask you a few final questions, starting with can assist Eddie survive without any sort of him the existential threat for its fight against into oppose. But if you would like to hear Russell and me discusses, you'll have to be ideally where member go to daily Wired, our common click join. You can hear the rest of our conversation. There everybody make sure to check out both of Brussels Podcast under skin and above the noise. Is you too general, and also these new audible original revelation Russell thanks. So much for joining show its way to talk to you, a man, you do a good job of these sanctions.

Ben Shapiro, Show Sunday Special is produced by math is lover, exact If producer Jeremy boring our technical, River is often Siemens and our assistance. It's possible white asking our guests are built Le Maynard editor by Jim Nickel. Audio is missed by Michael Coral, Mina Hair and make up Abiola, Christina title graphics. Cynthia Angola the bureau shall Sunday Special is daily wire production, copyright daily wire, twenty twenty one