« 48 Hours

The Diary of Martha Moxley - Encore

2022-06-05

A 15-year-old girl beaten to death with a golf club in a wealthy Connecticut neighborhood. Does her diary hold clues to the killer? 48 Hours" correspondent Erin Moriarty reports.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hey. Prime members, you can listen to the forty eight hours podcast ad free on amazon music down. The arab today, if you're like me, your hooked on fast pace, crime rattlers? That's why I'm so excited to listen to the gift by international, best selling author Sebastian fit act available. simply on audible. Milan burg is a master manipulator with a photographic memory and a shameful secret. He never learn to read so when a car stops in front of him and traffic milan, can't decipher the sign. The terrified girl in the back seat holds up, but he knows instinctively she's in mortal danger, determined Her milan is drawn down a nightmarish trail of clues that all point in one disturbing direction: directly and tom alarms own past, don't miss out on this If your seat, psychological thriller visit, audible, dot com, slash the gift to listen now The
Joe you mention groping grand You were there in seventy five first, I think people ask you. How did you know more modestly, now haven connecticut as a small private community biggest states and almost no crime, but a fifteen year old girl has been brutally murdered their bill haven. This was a virtually exclusive, very wealthy commute in greenwich connecticut, where motors just donut, her, my name's richard burns and I lived in greenwich back then, is the first time in forty five years, ever talked about. My name is tory holland. I grew up and bell haven and nineteen. Seventy five. I was fifteen.
Along with Martha, she just said, is being personality and you're beautiful blonde hair smiled all the time I just smile and just made you feel like you're, the centre of the world. The scales lived across the street from the mock sleaze. They were a family of all these boys, except for julie and went to school with. And Michael, was a year behind me and thomas. Your head of me is a lovely place to grow up you ve just felt safe and that all chain, after that night. They instrument used in the striking the march the girl was a golf club. We know that absolutely damask
Nearly a quarter of a century would pass before police would make an arrest for the murder of the moxley, the thirty nine year old, Michael skakel, always charged with murder. I'm shocked, sick, michael I know, Michael's innocent. The evidence is much stronger, suggesting that other people may have committed the crap Bobby Kennedy. Junior is Michael's cousin and he never believed for a minute. Michael scale committed this crime twenty seven years after the crime gonna, because, unlike reschedule convicted of the murder of martha moxley michael schedule, spent eleven and a half years in prison until his conviction was overturned on a p,
news. The man now goes free and if Michael didn't kill, Martha moxley and who did listen, always cute little amazing girl, smarter brutally by somebody, and I think somebody- and I never could Martha's diary hold the clue. I believe, all through this case, there's someone who's been keeping a sea. The
the the I after shoes who was murdered, a change have no sense of peace. You ve lost at all. Women tory holland and richard burns have waited decades. This big publicly about the event that,
forever mark their lives, the death of their friend, Martha moxley, my backyard sort of melded into her front yard. Both tory and Martha were just fifteen years old living in belle haven, connecticut, Martha's family had moved to the neighborhood a year earlier from California and Martha wasted no time becoming the it girl. She was not a wallflower. She wanted to meet everybody. but everybody in greenwich you know, was very kind of reserved northeastern personalities. She was very an extrovert. She was the california girl of of all of us. She was a joy to be around. You know. How can you kill someone like that? It's ok,
It was the night before halloween october october, at nineteen. Seventy five, also known as mischief night. What is mischief nine, basically, you would throw toilet paper under the trees, will respond Martha had it crosses, to hang out with her very wealthy neighbours, the scale family, the scales or cousins of the candidates rushed in scale. Sister Ethel had married Robert Kennedy in nineteen. Fifty russian had inherited a fortune from the fair
please, mining company are very famous family. They just had a lot more attitude about. You know they could do anything. Martha was friendly with the seven skakel kids spending time, mostly with Michael who was also fifteen and his older brother, seventeen year old, tommy on mischief night then to other friends map, Michael at the scale house, around nine p m the all piled into a lincoln like this parked in the driveway Michael and more for organ. The seat of the scale cod rapporteur, land lab at now, deceased was interviewed in two thousand and three More than thirty years investigating the night of Martha's death. Tommy comes and joined them, so the three them sitting in the front seat: authors in the middle between tommy and Michael, the listening to me:
they were lincoln until around nine thirty p m, when two others giggle brother said they needed the car, so they could drive their cousin Jimmy terry and to his house, watched the: u S, premier of monty python, flying circus michael told police. He left with his brothers and cousin while Molly and her friends stayed behind with tommy what goes on between boss and tommy, then a sort of playful pushing back and forth with sexual overtones. At one point, tommy pushes Martha down and falls on top of her and the friends who sell embarrassed. They leave and go home, leaving Martha with tommy arthur, never gets old. Martha's mother Dorothy spoke with forty eight hours in two thousand nurse martha and remembered that around one am the next morning.
She began calling Martha's friend and alerted the police. I was getting more worried and more worrying I mean just was not like her when the sun came up and Martha still hadn't returned home. Dorothy walked over to the scale of house Michael answered the door, I'm dorothy max I live across the street and I'm looking for my daughter. Martha. Do you know if Martha is here? No martha was not there and he looked. He didn't look healthy. He liked. Well, I actually think he looked hung over hours passed. It was now almost noon on are we tory was on her way to join this surge when another friend discovered marthas body under this tree towards the bag
of the moxley property, and I could see mrs moxie at the front door and she's going to woman come any further, but I could see the devastation with mrs Mcnally's. Steve carol was among the first investigators friendly greenwich police department to walk up to marthas body. There was.
when I clicked act that should have stopped but didn't when careless spoke with forty eight hours in two thousand and he was still shaken by what he had seen. We didn't know what color hair she had, because it was all of blood, red and all of the blows or damage were all to her head, and then we could see a path that she had been dragged down in the high grass down to where sure final resting place, which was under the pine tree investigators, trace the trail of blood to the moxley. Dr way, she had been bludgeoned right near the dry way, because there was a huge pool of blood there. They discovered a piece of the murder weapon, the shaft of a gulf.
Club former for current reporter and forty eight hours consultant lynn tooley, it was a tony pen, ass, six iron, golf club and she was struck so violently that the shaft of the golf club shattered and one portion of the chef was driven through her neck. Just a few hours later, while cam asean, the scale property, the least discovered a matching golf club. They came from the same set as the six iron that was used to kill Martha. It came from a set owned by an scale. Michael's and tommy slate. Mother police began taking a hard look at the scales and they would find what sounded like ten july
in clues left by Martha herself in her diary go inside the decades long investigation of Martha moxley murder forty eight hours, dot, com, ebay, but you got there. This is a check from Carvana. I just sold my car to them. I went online and Carvana gave me an offer right away. Then they just picked up the car and gave me. This is a big check that obviously could put this towards your next car or we could finally get that jacuzzi or I could start taking tuba lessons or I could quit my job and write my memoir or I can put it towards my next car with Carvana. Sorry, your check that might sell your car to Carvana. carbonic dot com or download the apt to get a real offer in seconds high lindsey, graham the host and wonders podcast american scandal we bring to life
the biggest controversies in? U S, history, presidential lies environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our new a serious, we look at the kids for cash scandal. A story about corruption inside america's system of juvenile justice in northeastern pennsylvania, residents had begun, noticing and alarming trend. Children were being sent away to jail in high numbers, often for committing only minor offences. The f b I began looking to local judges and when the full picture emerged it made national headlines. The judges were earning fourchan carrying out a brazen criminal scheme, one that would shatter the lives of countless children and force a heated debate about punishment and america's criminal justice follow american scandal. Wherever you get your upon guests, you can listen ad free on the amazon, music or wondering app Can we still in shock? Did she was gone?
This had to be a beautiful tribute to her. You send her on a few days after marthas murder on November fourth, nineteen. Seventy five about five hundred people gathered for her funeral and while family and friends mourned the teenager investigators were learning more about mars, is real. Should ship with Michael and Tommy scapegoat. Do you remember either the scales having a crush on Martha? While I would be hard not I know I did martha's friends told police that tommy wanted to data, but is advances may not have always been welcomed? On september, twelve Martha
I wrote in her diary about going for ice cream with Michael and Tommy went driving in Tom's car, and I was practically sitting on Tom's lap. He kept putting his hand on my knee and on october. Fourth, a little over three weeks before her murder, Martha wrote. I went to a party tom, as was being an ass at the dance he kept putting his arms around me and making moves. I did not know she was spending the time that she was spending. Then why did not hang around with them? They scared me a little bit what he may well there, because they were very ran bunches to you as earlier the seven scale, siblings lost their mom and to cancer. Their father rushed in struggled to parent them.
on the night of mars is dead. He was away on a hunting trip your father traveled quite a bit. They were allowed to do whatever they'd like they definitely gone to a lot of travelers a lot of partying going on in that house. I read that Michael skakel had a drinking problem. page thirteen really ourselves through and that ring may have created conflict with Martha in her diary. The month before her death, Martha wrote I was so totally out of it that he was being a real. He kept telling me that I was eating tom on Michael jump, to conclusions. I really have to. stop going over there, tommy and Michael were both known to have very explosive tempers. The two of them were fierce rivals for anything. You know from sports to affection, a girl's attention
Martha's. Possibly it was daylight when Martha's body was found, but based on reports of neighbourhood dogs barking. The night before investigators believed that Martha was killed some time between nine thirty and the ten p m around the time she was thought to be at this scale goals. Remember Michael tall believes that around nine thirty he had left to go to his cousin, Jimmy terence home and Martha had stayed. behind with tommy tommy story is that he last sees her at nine thirty and he goes inside home to write a paper on Abraham lincoln. The police later find out that no teacher tommy school ever assigned this paper.
Love. It says police and nationally considered tommy a strong sus back, but it turns out that even if tommy lied about writing that paper, he had an alibi. Witness Tommy is seen again shortly after ten o clock with can littleton pen. Little too was a new tudor who had just moved into the scale house that very day he told police that tommy was watching tv with em around ten p m. He noticed nothing unusual about tommy and that significant, because Martha had been murdered violently. How does Tommy dues? How does Tommy
to peter death move for body clean himself up composed himself, so they can littleton says of tommy. I noticed nothing about him out of the ordinary. No arrests were made months passed by and with advice from tommy's lawyer. Rushed in scale, stop cooperating with police. He also fired Little ten life unravelled shortly after he moved to nantucket, he drank heavily, did drugs committed crimes of de larceny investigators pound in on this scale, tudor speculating that its downfall could be rooted in his involvement in Martha's murder. But there were problems with that theory. He's got no motive to kill morsel; he never knew more than that in which more than was killed,
indicates that was somebody who had a relationship with authorities found no evidence to prove little tim was involved. Years went by. Martha's murder became a cold kay is there were no more leads to pursue was no new evidence in ninety ninety one, the trial. of another kennedy, cousin, william Kennedy smith, who was charged with rape in florida but acquitted, would open a new chapter in the like case there's an allegation which is false, that blame Kennedy, with was at the scale? Has the night of the murder that unfounded rumour and persistent press coverage kept the heat on the greenwich police department and prompt them to reopen the investigation? to reward and a hotline this time in an hour
two clear as family name rushed in scale hired his own team of investigators. Their findings became known as the sudden report, but the effort backfire because that report for the first, I pointed a finger at another of rushden sons. Michael skakel Michael lied to the police, Michael to believe that after watching Monty python's flying circus at his cousin Jimmy terry and his house, he came home around eleven thirty pm and went straight to bed, but he told his dad's investigators, another story alma. God. I tell anybody that without that nine they're gonna play, I did. The
for twenty years. Investigators seem stymied in their efforts to find marthas killer, but all that change nineteen ninety five. When someone leaked the Sutton report to the press, it was. Never spoke to see the light of day. The report was an eye opener tommy admitted to his father's investigators that all those years ago, in nineteen, seventy five he had lied to the police. Tommy told the sudden investigators that he did not go into his house at nine thirty. He stayed outside making out with martha for twenty minutes mutual putting some sexual encounter and suddenly come
himself is being most likely. The last person to see her alive and not just the last person see, are alive but whose, with there at the time that investigators believes, you may have been kill correct, but it wasn't just tommy who changed his story. Was it no Michael, also changed his story. Remember Michael tell believes that after watching Monty python at his cousins he came back home.
Around eleven thirty pm and went straight to bed report was devastating to the schedule family, but then he described a very different scenario to those private investigators feeling horny mid nineties drunk and he goes out and he climbs a tree outside Martha's window and he masturbates in the tree. In fact, in nineteen ninety seven Michael even made a tape recording of that story, while working on a book proposal for a tell all autobiography, I pulled my backpack. I masturbated for thirty prepping for the trade, and I remember thinking- oh my god. I hope that number
but then I woke up and met with mockery. Then Michael has have you seen. Martha has got the creamy last night. The quartet also begun to circulate that Michael had actually confessed. The martyrs murder. It was said to have happened while he was a student at a law on a reform school at his father, sent in to after a drunk driving incident. When seventeen one former along student, Gregory coleman, recounted to a local news reporter. What he says Michael told him back and the first words you ever said to me. I'm going away with murder. I'm a comments as Michael detailed bloody did to Martha that night.
Advances towards her and you rejected his advances and quote unquote there. He drove her are sculling away, love after hearing from coal men and other fora or a lawn students sates attorney Jonathan bennydeck convened an on usual and rarely used one person grand jury to look at all the evidence and all the suspects. In the case, after eighteen months of more than forty witness, is going to have anything to say by the grand jury indicted, Michael skakel for murder, a little for twenty four years after Martha's death. Michael, was forty one years old when his trial began and how big a story was that huge, the scene outside was missing,
just like? They must respect all the national media was there, they had tents and they had lights. Michael's defence, it is only the best- is that he did not commit this time michael escape. was being represented by a well known, locals offence attorney Nicky sherman is charismatic as they come. Mickey no amateur when it comes to television, some motive for Michael skakel killin, Martha marks the Only motive really is jealous rage over the attack, and she was showing Tommy sky. In fact, in that same book propose for his autobiography Michael wrote, I wanted her to be my girl, I think Martha just rebuffed him ass. She could have been flirting with tommy and
that made him angry Michael scapegoat trial prosecutor, Jonathan Benedict began with discredited Michael's alibi than he had gone for, that ride to his cousins house around the time of marthas murder, prosecutors called scale, family, friends and re of shakespeare, who had been at this scale house that night Andreas shakespeare is one of the witnesses who was certain MR schedule, talk, dead, alibi, right, bandaging, pitfalls in Michael's, alibi, buddy later said,
I got himself provided the most damaging evidence. The truth of the matter, rules that michael scapegoats couldn't keep his mouth shut for a quarter of a century benedict is referring to all those admissions Michael, allegedly made to kill a martha like the one to a long, classmate gregory coleman, although common, had died from drug overdose before the trial began. His testimony from an earlier hearing was read to the jury that infuriated Michael's brothers, Stephen gregg coleman was high and heroin on methadone. He was doing twenty to twenty five bags of her one day it turns out that, before trial, coleman admitted to Michael's attorney that he was actually high on drugs when he testified before the grand jury, but the state put on nine other witnesses who told the jury that Michael implied, he again
martha the and then, of course there was Michael's own words from that tell all book proposal, inclosing arguments, prosecutor, bandage played and edited excerpt for the jurors, oh, my god, last night by members I think it very well may have been the linchpin. What do you mean by that driving the nail into the coffin of michael scale in terms of a guilty verdict. It's the jury. Four days Michael scale was convicted for marthas murder. His sentence, twenty years
wife. I know Michael skakel, and I know he didn't commit the crime with it. A few months after trial, Michael skakel, his cousin Robert Kennedy, Jr accused the prosecutor of deliberately misrepresenting Michael's words in that closing argument is tape. Recorded words were used out of context by the prosecutor to imply that he was confessing to the crime. Oh my god, last night, because here's what the prosecutor didn't play in court- and I remember thinking- oh my god- I hope that nobody- correspondent Lesley Stahl, asked Benedict about it in hearing this myself without the the preamble
masturbating to anybody. Is that he's actually talking about murdering her and an isn't that really taking him out of context? No, I don't think so. If I did this forty eight hours, we fire because of fears, suggestion based upon the evidence for the courage it appeared to anybody who looked at it, that he was confessing to. He was saying that he was panicked because he had committed this crime, and that was really the segment that everybody raise ended up convicting Michael scapegoat and Robert Kennedy was determined to exonerate his cousin eight months after Michael scale was sent off to president Kennedy. Gotta tat, he believed would reveal mark
as real killers kellers? Do you think the prosecutors closing argument? Atmosphere, chat now want facebook and twitter. The robert Kennedy junior, it was the break he had been hoping for Kennedy got. It said that a former classmate or michael Google, a man named tony bryant, was claiming he knew the, identity of Martha moxley killers, so Kennedy and Michael's attorneys track bryant down in florida. Bryant made a full confession of his involvement in I know this is tony bryan in two thousand and three videotape by michael schedules team
decided to go up to greenwich and hang out. He told them on the night of the murder he had taken two friends: aid off hasbrouck, also known as owl and Burton tinsley, to bell that so do you believe that they killed her there's no doubt moreover, the revolver bryant knew the two teams from new york and told scales. Investigators that has broke had become obsessed with Martha I mean love their beautiful blonde hair Brian said that hasbrouck met Martha during previous trips to belle haven at a street, fair and again at a dance for the mixers he got jealous of other guys coming up to were entitled to her tony claims hasbrouck, plain to him saying why she's spinner, tired those guys when she was written
on the night of the murder Brian says he was with has broken tensely when they all picked up golf clubs from this gay go back yard. He claims eddie. There has brook or tensely brag about wanting to hurt someone order where right grass and by my hair, and do we take this Tony says he wanted no part of it, so he left valve haven right When you get off, they told you we We did it. We did. We, our fantasy brian, stated that while his friends never mentioned Martha moxley by
name, they knew who they replied. It was. It was so obvious, because the next day it was all over. I mean it was everywhere. Armed with tony bryant story. In two thousand and five michael schedules attorneys filed an appeal asking for a new trial. Your honor, the petition for new trial, will be filed on behalf of Michael spiegel claims, newly discovered evidence which involves the allegations concerning only bright, but at a hearing to present the new evidence, bryant refused to testify under oath. Of course, he is going to do that because he admits that he brought the murders to greenwich because he could be charged with that crime Kennedy's, as Brian wouldn't testify, without immunity. So scales attorneys played his.
videos statement issued by the judge was persuaded and ruled against michael scale. Michael escape oversees, the state of connecticut has been concluded, despite the judges ruling. Almost a decade later. In two thousand sixteen robert Kennedy, junior repeated brien's allegations in his book framed using marthas diary is evidence. Kennedy claims that three weeks before her murder martha row that she saw tony and two strangers at a dance, but that's not quite accurate in her entry, Martha doesn't mention tony and she never uses the word strangers. She writes
October fourth dear diary tonight, was the sacred heart dance when we walked in some guy asked me to dance some other guy asked me. It turned out to be a slow dance. It was stairway to Heaven at the fast party, wouldn't even let go. I also dance with dickey, neil and peters the men ski a lot with dickie dickie she mentions is actually richard burns. Who says he was with Martha much of that night scene. Tony bryant, you remember that at all, though, did you ever meet owl, hasbrouck or Burton tinsley? No, don't you think you would have remembered if she was dancing with someone else who seem possessive of her. She didn't
Didn't we does the whole? My facebook is innocent, our hasbro decline to be interviewed and we were unable to reach Burton tensely, but has Brooks attorney. Larry show bach describes the allegations as follows: an inflammatory corner fruit, black for swine, was blamed. Somebody else. It's the black guy was blamed Why not? Let's take the most vulnerable person in our society and accuse him? I am as certain as certain can be that neither had anything to do with this burden. Tens and a now
it's broke, don't deny that they have been the belle haven on several occasions, but showbox says: there's no evidence that either one was in ballet. Even the night, Martha was bludgeoned to death. Nobody saw how harrisburg nobody. They would have seen a young guy, a black man in a very, very white community and a big guy, but nobody saw him because he wasn't there. Somebody would have seen strangers and recognized that they were strangers. Nobody did, and I just thought that was kind of a cheap shot that they were going after this black kid from new york city I mean really I think it's there trying to find a scapegoat. What's more has roots attorney is baffled as to why anyone would believe tony bryant bryant has a criminal history
That includes a nineteen ninety three conviction for armed robbery. In california, we tried to reach him, but couldn't up until october twenty twenty one he was serving a seven year sentence in a florida prison for tax evasion. Me, I still show inbox as Kennedy irresponsibly perpetuates bryant's allegations with no facts and no evidence he continues to put forth. This lie is a way of trying to clear his cousin, and I guess, by extension, the kennedy name. In november, twenty twenty kennedy insisted to us that tony bryant, No reason whatsoever to lie about AL has brook and burden tensely when we passed him about it. He got up from the interview chair. Do you have any regrets of pointing the finger at two people who have never been suspects? There's no physical evidence that tie them
The crime you have the but in the end it wouldn't be the words of tony bryant that change everything for michaelson legal. What do you make of tony brides account chat now on facebook and twitter. Michael escape old did not give up on April. Sixteen two thousand thirteen scale was back in court woodroof, with his attorney hubert santos and a new argument that that media savvy fancy turning making sherman hired to defend my god is two thousand to trial rights had bogs that,
mickey had me believing he was the real deal. He accused us, former lawyer a being to show me with the press. He said it was a media whore. Everything about this trial is unique. The question now and schedule claim that german failed to focus on a more viable. Thus back democracies murderer Michael's own brother Tommy knew that tommy skakel was the last person to see Martha moxley. I believe so. Sherman never presented evidence of tommy's infamous temper
I know that he strangled a classmate right in front of his teacher. I don't recall. Sherman also failed to convince the judge to allow tommy to testify which could have raised doubts about Michael's involvement. If you try who's going to invoke the fifth amendment, no matter what we did, perhaps most shocking sherman failed to call a critical whitney who supported Michael's alibi that he was miles away. The night Martha was murder. That was done, maria who was at the terran household the night they were while allegedly watching Monty python's flying sir Michael was allegedly their mickey sherman anti static. Doing that, instead of calling never talk to that witness, but in two thousand and thirteen santos did was there anybody else at the hall the boys were, there was Michael skakel and Michael was with him. He puts michael skakel at that house.
and has no motive to lie. He's not related to michael scale, gave team argued that these missed opportunities would have created reasonable doubt for the job. Free and the judge agree six months later he overturned scales eviction. Wednesday connecticut judge granted the fifty three year old, a new trial in the nineteen seventy five murder of Martha moxley after eleven and a half years in prison, Michael skakel, walked out of the courthouse, no longer a convicted killer. Venetian man now goes free, but not for long in two thousand. Sixteen connecticut supreme court ina sharply divided decision, reinstate his conviction, sang the defence
as adequate scapegoat face with returning to prison, then filed for reconsideration and in two thousand eighteen, with a new judge on the bench. The connecticut supreme court reversed itself now ruling the scale, is entitled to a new trial. That trial would never happen. Looking at the evidence, your honor looking at the state of the case, I believe that the state through this case beyond reasonable doubt on october thirty, eight, twenty twenty. the forty fifth anniversary of Martha moxley murder. This state of connecticut announced it would not retry Michael's scapegoat Michael's gonna, walk round the rest of his life with that
had no matter whether or not it's been vacated by the court? opinion matters. As for his brother tommy, The years later, I ended up plan some golf with a bunch of times me. Did you ever ask in point blank? I did I didn't do it and it ruined my life. This case has been a long and winding road. A very painful case emotionally for many people for joy, they moxley time has done little to ease her laws Martha. My baby will never have a life. This was devastating to the moxley family. Dorothy to this day remains convinced. Martha was killed by michael scale to lose a child is the worst thing in the world.
and so after almost half a century of questions and to family shattered. All that remains, is one terrible truth. As we sit here today, no one has been convicted of Martha moxley, smarter. No, that's true! It's very frustrating! It's very upsetting. It's sad that she's not Around you know, live these forty five years. I think she was done great things. I think she would have been a great mother. She was always a great friend lasting impression of a light then did
It was soon alive that in Martha's own words was full of hope. Dear diary, today is the last day of seventy four boo hoo. Seventy four has been one of the best years of my life. Well, hope. Seventy five is as good the I have a beautiful ballerina, a troubled marriage, a deadly confrontation. She tells the paper I shot dead in self defense when she genuinely free or just trying to get her legs underneath those white feathers, she's an evil woman she's, the black swan forty eight hours, sydney s hey by members.
You can listen to the forty eight hours podcast ad free on amazon music. Download the amazon music up today or you can listen ad free with wondering, plus an apple pie. Gas before you go tell us about yourself by completing a short survey of wondering dog com. Sledge survey
Transcript generated on 2023-06-01.