Hey prime members. You can listen to the forty eight hours podcast ad free on amazon music down. the arab today baby double stars, Zack, elephant access, Elizabeth banks, Sarah snuck geraldine vis, went off in a behind the scenes. Look at one of the biggest speculative crazy that blaze through american culture in the nineties. The beanie bubble and select the iter is on July, twenty first streaming exclusively on apple tv plus July twenty eightth raided are: me It's so powerful and see how my mom handled this. situation, She's, amazing, you know she's really early straw. How often do Residential kidnappings happened here very rare nothing, nothing at all

sean a hamley is at home with her daughter, isabel a friend came over to come and visit with her. We talk for about five or ten minutes and the door bell rang, and so I went to the door and it ceased to man these to individuals essentially present themselves to be delivery, menacing sort, sean it sees them says. Look I have a friend over now is not a good time. She goes to close the door on em. They forced themselves in with guns, started to scream to get the f on the four and don't move they handcuffed me in front like this? I was just style. I saw that my mom and her friend or handcuffed. I said I have valuables. I have jewelry have cash precious metals. I can get your money didn't. trust them at all come on man she went in and they came back and ask me

I said no, and they just accepted that unless they put her in the it I'm hooded, they hurried me as soon as I went into the van. It was ban that didn't have the windows in the back and it was just a rubber matt without seats back there and Lay me on the four than the These guys, who had not a town, was shown here. The back live in van one of the guys sat on top of me. He stayed screaming at me here. gun to my head. I was trying to pay attention to where we were. I could feel we pick ups that we had made a turn. I was like now my heart song cause whereon and interstate, or some and the guy Let me they threaten to assault me sexually put a pale in my mouth

gave me another. Some worrying given me and he said: don't worry about and so I guess I started to maybe drift a little and I started praying this particular day. I got out of work as our travelling with iraq on the interstate like that, stop behind a white van I can kind of see the the driver of the Van was starting to get nervous in the mirror. He was looking at me. He decided to get in the shoulder and speed off, didn't sit right with me, so I got in behind him. I put my emergency lights and sirens on and I hear sirens I was like yeah yeah. Ok, thank you god. This is where the vehicle exited did add to a dirt road which had been mud because it just rained or van got stuck as when they exited the vehicle kept running.

The siren, stopped and adjusts again. So what happened Did I imagine the sirens what's going on and on, full of anxiety. When you approached the Van, you got your god drawn yes openly rear door of the van and in the van, what I thought was a man who had moved, scared and startled me, so I jumped back shut the door. Oh my god, things are always what they sing.

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ever you get your podcast or bench all aid episodes ad free- I wonder he plus find wondering plus in the wonder, yeah or on a pot- casts I didn't know what was going on with my mom. There was no one really telling me what was happening please say the woman was forcefully removed from our home in latvia with her cheek. The hood home now a crime scene and her mother, chonta, hanley, just abducted by armed intruders, isabella cumberland found herself confused amidst a crowd of investigators and forensic analysts they wanted to over the finger prints on the door is upstairs my phone just kind of felt like I was another piece of evidence, isabella

then, just fourteen years old was trying to process the site of the violent kidnapping. She had just witnessed and her families home in lafayette louisiana on august. Sixty two thousand seventeen, as their driving away with her did you think that was the last time. You'd ever see her. I thought there was a chance lafayette, investigators and isabella had no idea about an hour after the kidnapping just across state your bat rouge chad, martin and yberville parish. Sheriffs deputy had just pulled over a suspicious white van. After a brief pursuit. There were too many side when they pulled into this parking spot. They got stuck in the mud, so the men jump out and they take off running and right behind us as the inner coastal waterway, they jump in and disappear and Martin went to clear that vehicle. He discovered chonta handling, handcuffed

and naked in the back? She looked at me and I ll never forget this. She said real police. Are you the one? That's gonna kill me, and he was like you're saying, you're safe. Minutes before Martin was rushing home for sunday, in his squad car after clocking out unaware of chonta skin, being nearly sixty miles away. His biggest worry at that time was his wife's wrath. I heard you were habitually late for dinners. I had a tendency to my leg for Everything now he had unwittingly made the rescue of a lifetime. What's going through your head, I mean you were just tried to pull over a couple of guys who looked a little suspicious. I can't really tell you I was going through my head almost like I went into robot mode and I was trying to get this woman help. Chonta told him a harrowing story that the kidnappers had dropped. Her

I threatened to rape her and killer, if not for Chad. Martin, I would be dead. I can't even imagine, but I know it was it: can it be quick and swift? Martin relayed the news of shoulders rescued. Dispatch soon reached isabella whenever they me that she was safe. I felt this relief law enforcement began to ask questions who were shown to kidnappers, and why did they abductor but for Chonta there was no mystery. Who was behind it? She had said She believed her husband is the one that had paid them to kill her. Her estranged, husband, Michael handling, chonta, says that before the difficult months leading up to the kidnapping, Michael, would have been the last person she could have imagined would harm her, in two thousand five through friends and lafayette, at a time when both or single

parents and emerging from failed marriages. He is really. catering and just sweet and compassionate another thing they had in common. Both were in recovery for addiction. At that time I him and sober for about eighteen years. A wall Michael, was newly clean and sober he had about it here. The new couple hit it off and a year later they were married in Hawaii isabel I took an immediate liking to Michael here. Well, was my dad from when I was two years old, and so that's how I saw him was really is my dad. in two thousand and seven michael and sean found success, channeling their experience and recovery into a new business. We're gonna, provide care and a meeting where you are partnering with a doctor to start a chain, addiction, treatment centres, selling

deb opening. At one point, I think there were fourteen centres throughout the south. Eight years later they made a decision luis, so the company. How much do you make on the same day? Two of them Michael and his partner? We sold the company for twenty one point: five million dollars a year, but their life is happy millionaires didn't last long say, process Peters Donald, connect and kitty a bear No money in free time with someone with an addictive personality, is in great combination, Chonta was seeing that first hand with Michael in two thousand, seventeen less than two years after the sale of their company when she and a bottle of admiral with Michael handlers name on it. So what we want at our treatment centre. Was that use of something like that? Amphetamine could open the doors to a world

the trouble? So when I found the bottle it terrified me, Can remember telling him this could lead to death. This could leave to something devastating things got even worse when Chonta discovered that Michael, was seeing another woman. He was having an affair and all I could think was I don't even know who this man is. She The issued an ultimatum Michael had to go into treatment. But when he refused to get help, she made a difficult decision. I changed. The locks and michael was locked out of the house and he started to lose his mind at that point, and so, after a couple of weeks, he said You ve been a regret this and then that turned into I'm telling you it's gonna get back there. Least life together was falling apart fast Michael accused

on the other salting him she was charged but later acquitted by a judge or While shoulder was begging the authorities to see that she was the one in danger of Michael wasn't it Four handed he was going to kill me. and. Since his death in two thousand nine, the world has struggled with how Michael Jackson should be remembered as the king of pop or monster. I'm Leon may fuck the host a fiasco and the creator of slow burn and I'm j, smooth, hip, hop journalist and cultural commentator. Michael Jackson was accused of child molestation for the floor. time and ninety ninety three, our new podcast, think twice. Michael Jackson is the story of what came before and what came after throughout the podcast. We explore what makes Michael jackson seemingly on council and we began to the complicated feeling. So many of us.

When we hear Billy Jeanne the grocery store through dozens of original interviews with people who watched the story unfold first hand think twice as an attempt to reconcile our conflicts, emotions about Michael Jackson, the man with our deep seated love of his art, listen to think twice, Michael Jackson, wherever you get your pot or you can binge the entire series ad free on audible or the amazon music app. I showed the hamley was recovering of a hospital investigators were learning the details of her tumultuous pass with Michael hamley. They knew they had to find him and the kidnappers fast, scouring the last place. Her abductors had been seen this canal there's a fisherman and important. these two individuals waiting by him in the water in one

pointed to go out and said, be cool, but, as the neighbors had been swimming towards freedom. The canals on forgiving current had other plans behind the the intracoastal canal is where two bodies were found yesterday. They found them floating, ghost canal drowned dead dead. They were later identified as sylvester bracy or sending o Higgins You think, when you found out they were there the thought, I can have to worry about them. Hurting me sad as it is while investigators suspected Michael hamley was responsible for the abduction proving it might have been difficult with their main witnesses. The kidnappers but handling it seemed had made a cunning easy for them. Detector. We are running the vin number on the white Van. That vin number leads them to in enterprise. Dealership, evaporation so well a few days ago,

an individual named lawrence, Michael hamley, came in and render the van and then a couple days before that he went to barneys police deep at which the store that very specifically, police issue, merchandise and we will seen on store surveillance cameras as he pulls up and purchases handcuffs, finding evidence allegedly connecting only to the kidnapping wasn't difficult, but finding him turned out to be the challenge. I'm asking Michael's been apprehended and they said now and so they said we need to like lay low for a little while with a fortune at his fingertips, investigators feared he could be anywhere and dangerous danger once she was released from the hospital, so they came up with a plan of action We decided on safe house outside of lafayette. So they bear a former louisiana sheriff, was part of the secure

detail watching Chonta twenty four seven. We lafayette, chairs, deputy and of marked unit on premises. No visitors, no packaged deliveries, nothing until further Thus, even in hiding chonta was feeling relief. That Michael was finally being recognised as a threat living in constant fear prior to the kidnapping. the terror that I was in for those three months. The kidnapping was nothing in comparison. Kidnapping was a blessing. What the kid hoping, as wake allowed me to get to a place where people were willing to support me the beginning, how many people believe chonta, not many but she had found a fierce ally. In christine me, her divorce attorney christine

who all too well what shoulda had experienced the most dangerous case. I have ever about let alone been a part of what made it so dangerous, Michael hanley. He was constantly stocking her telling her that he knew where she was threatening her threatening her daughter with horn shown to call the police several times but felt she wasn't taken seriously christine, help shown to secure a restraining order, says Michael found creative ways to make it effectively worthless. He disk his voice. He also used an app that picked up dummy numbers that he used to contact her. So there was no proof it was half that was actually violating the protective order and he seemed to be tracking shoulders every move he was able to speak.

on her through our own laptop computers, her alarm system, he compromised. All of that nothing was out about, Michael's behaviour, was growing increasingly erratic, even though he was the one to initially file for divorce, the spring of two thousand. Seventy. He soon change. Just mine and shoulder, says now he was demanding they reconcile or she pay a humiliating price. He says of our private videos, are gonna, go out to people in the computer, intimate intimate videos shoulda struggled over this, but knew she couldn't taken back fell. Videos went out to hundreds of people in the community, my cousins on coal, administration at the school political friends neighbours I say,

and cried and was sick to my stomach, almost didn't stand up. Just when chonta thought she couldn't take any more on junior twenty seventeen. Almost two months, to the day before the kidnapping Michael hanley slipped in. her house through the garage he was enraged. You raked of alcohol, he was, he was furious and he had me pent up against the wall and I swim decibel ah Well, he put his hand over my mouth any pulled out. A gun and nine millimeter are gone he pulls out a handgun, and he said if you scream or anybody comes to end I fear I will shoot you both. I will kill you both Do you understand me shudder.

says that, after our saying anything, she could think of to calm down she finally convince Michael to leave. As soon as he walked out of that gate ran house bolted the door and I started screaming, who cry when Michael left that day after he had attacked me, I was a hundred percent positive. He was going to kill police were called once again, but they didn't arrest Michael hamley. I can see in your eyes at you're getting emotional. I felt ass though I was being told that there was law. And then I was making it up. This is why women don't report abuse because they fear they will not be built how many times had shown to filed a report against Michael? I believe that Actual porch filed were a couple dozen, if not more,

as far as how many times was their rest made there wasn't why, a time she was out of state, sometimes the investors felt like they didn't of evidence to actually go for and get a warrant for the rest. After the kitten, being investigators were confident that this I'm they had more than enough evidence to make an arrest, but could they find him in time so somehow Michael, is able to track chonta down to the place that seeking refuge. Doesn't Michael hamley noted the cops are onto him? Yes, because some point. He tried to charter private playing, and so the pilot century said I am not going to be taken. You anywhere,

because you're one amid the pilot reported it to police, but Michael, was long gone and as he continued to evade authorities, Chonta got a text message from a strange number, claiming that Michael had also been kidnapped, saying in part pay the ransom for your husband and pay as five hundred large we'll send him home in pieces. A day later, friends received a shocking photo of Michael. He was new handcuffed and seemingly injured, and he's got blood on It appeared to be from sean this kidnappers, but investigators knew that couldn't be true. We know that obviously wasn't from them because their debt at this point, so Michael is behind these messages on august, eleventh, two thousand seventy. After a four day, manhood gives finally cornered the multimillionaire once accustomed to private jets info

star hotels. He was in this off rant, motel slide. L Louisiana with information on the arrest of a lapierre kidnappings, aspect as they took and oddly milo, Michael hamley, in custody investigators begin sifting through the nearly ten thousand dollars in cash pizza boxes and illicit drugs. Finding this to do list on it. We're things like burner, fall, hair die cash, but its final task was even more ominous says: prosecutor kidding, aver, said chonta safe house was just thirty five miles away, but on the bottom of the list, or the words finish the job the job would mean, in our opinion, he's gonna kill with Michael hanley now in jail. Shandy in her security team decided it was finally safe for her to come out of hiding time to go home.

What she said. I just want to go and rebuild my life, but with history record invading justice isabella was sceptical that the worst was behind them I remember thinking it was almost pointless that he was being arrested. It felt like he had all the power and he was gonna. Keep all the power Michael hamley pleaded not guilty to a litany of charges including conspiracy, to commit second degree murder prosecutors got to work building their case against. any time you're on our side of the table, you start thinking. What's the the defence be, we could not figure out with his defense was gonna, be there was no question she was a victim of a kidnapping. Blood says Kevin stock. Still the man whom I gladly hired to defend him. The physical evidence does prove his client played a part in any of it were the van and the handcuffs enough to convict him. I don't think so

It is because stock still says there is explanation for everything it started when Michael hired, sylvester Bracy not kidnap, his wife, but instead he claims to move some furniture that was the reason Michael rented, the van he says and me No effort to hide it. Mister hamley, you know, goes into the enterprise, rent, a car location with his credit card, one hand and drivers licence in the other. So you thought you could explain to that hey, listen, nobody who is actually going to commit this crimes, gonna go in with their licence and ideas by themselves, correct it all innocent enough stock still says until the would be me for wit, rope stocks, The author rises, sylvester bracy saw Michael's desperation to get his wife back and decided to use it to his advantage

That's when he enlisted our city, o Higgins, to help him kidnapped. Chonta hold her for ransom, fear thinking the kidnappers could have wanted to extort Michael to get money from him, so they would have kidnapped his wife, potentially and, of course he did by the handcuffs but stocks to says he only use them to stage that fake kidnapping photo so as he's bound and gagged he's bound with handcuffs it was just Latest example, according to stock still of affair, rose and videos that Michael had been sending to shonda for months, showing him an emotional distress and in one case apparently be in a misguided attempt, try and when her back, because Michael had had a proclivity to try and stay

these things to to get you out of sympathy from china, but as the defence prepared to argue that the kidnappers act it on their own chonta handling made a damning discovery while cleaning out a remote, mississippi property. They, China starts getting some for personal belongings one. The things that they found was this it was a type of cam recalled arloeux michael handling, used it for security. When our low detect sound video arloeux starts. Recording, that's right. That's right! Well, it turns out he accidentally turned camera on himself all put together. What are the camera cole? I mean hundreds of hours, hundreds of hours One of the first videos is from two months before the kidnapping, Michael, is by himself in a hotel room and is apparently talking to himself

you see moving around and at some point you fix it came up and put it back, and you hear him say the words in a killer killer killer. Prosecutors believe the her he intended to kill was shonda Michael was even more explicit just days later conversation with a friend in the living room of the mississippi house beers in their discussing the issue he sandwich on them. right here, The friend later said he didn't recall, hearing what Michael said next michaels,

as that's why she's going to have to die so matter of fact in yet another clip from just two weeks before the kidnapping, Michael handley is caught with sylvester bracey at that property planning how it was the perfect place. Prosecutors said to bring shonda to torture her and possibly worse. He specifically says it's almost impossible for any one to get in here, so much bracing response and will be impossible for her to get out I see have I mean did you think you had a rock solid case before that? Yes, what would you think after it But I must do something right. The world then

in a move, no one saw coming the Michael handley agreed to tell his side of things. What is the strongest piece of evidence against Michael handley chat now on facebook and twitter, while awaiting trial for the kidnapping of his estranged, wife, chonta go hanley was held in the laugh. He had perished correctional center, but shoulders Even though Michael was behind bars, he continued To harass her received. A lot of male ladders he's been incarcerated at numerous calls, toothpaste

and from calling you. I guess not on top of that short lived in fear that Michael just might get out. That's because at one point the defence argue that was suffering from mental illness and was not guilty by reason of insanity. Like Michael, was sober. It was fantastic, individual, very talented, willing to help people when he was found at the hotel inside it will mean that were drugs there. You know, there's no question that he was using. It I don't know. level with his responsibility. But I think it's a combination of substance and some mental illness four prosecutor kenny Aber. However, it was a desperate attempt to get Michael released. They did so that they can get some psychological of professionals, honest.

And to say he needs to be out of jail and he needs to go to these mental health facilities. Well, which I'm a mental health facilities that don't have nearly the security than a jail hats. Michael's defence team submitted mental health records showing that he suffered from bipolar disorder complicated by drug addiction which they say rendered him legally insane during the time leading up to the kidnapping to court aboard. Doctors agreed, but the judge ruled that Michael was competent to stand trial. and must remain behind bars. Once they initially failed to get him out, they withdrew their play and why they change it. To. they just change to regular, not guilty while Michael hand. These criminal battle was heating up in march, two thousand eighteen, his divorce. From Chonta became finalized, shaw, There was awarded all of the

There was only one problem: there is no money, there's no money of millions of dollars. Vanished. Michael was a very a centric person He was obsessed with the collapse of the american dollar, so much of their money was in gold bars shoulder. Said she had seen gold before and knew that there was gold somewhere on that property now believe people. And went out with metal protectors to try to figure out if he stashed it somewhere, no gold was ever covered. So there's all of this money that's unaccounted for, but we know it's gotta be out there somewhere, Top of being left with nothing, she says she suddenly found herself responsible for repaying her. Now ex husband, massive debts, How much of a whole that leave and seven hundred and fifty thousand guy can't comprehend how

I am now in a position where I owe this sort of money should have felt like it was a slob. he's after enduring so much, but it wasn't all for not during the settlement negotiations show divorce attorney christine mere had subpoenaed mike. for a deposition, and surprisingly he agree. I mean that's wild here, I can imagine that someone with the arrogance that Michael handley had insisted that he was going to be testifying. It was gonna, be fine because he is the smartest person in the world Sean does divorce attorney and the prosecutors had agreed to cooperate with each other, and every one was interested in hearing what Michael Hamley had to say. It was a risk because he might go into that deposition and say stuff that really jeopardizes his criminal case of net I've been more nervous and a deposition than now. We should cease

the tests one got used the truth and which, dressed in a strike, prison uniform Michael answered questions for ten hours over three days, I was hanging on every question, but you were yeah he's a chaotic at the time I was living out of hotels, I've been moving from hotel to hotel for several months. Michael was about his relationship with sylvester, Bracy and reason. He rented that Van. Diet hire him to move furniture ready to ban to make the move through the furniture, peace, with his original story. He said that he had hired movers in order to move furniture and they went rogue because they thought he had money. Phone call, shoes ass, the phone I say hello: they streamed they stream. We got your wife and I just remember because it was like. I got punched. It's like one of those

failure to rio, but when pressed about that tales of how he first met bracy recall, michael claimed couldn't remember much about the weeks leading up to the kidnapping. I don't remember I dont know. Don't call touch one hesitating. I don't remember I don't recall, I don't recall, I don't recall their action. I remember I don't know, I don't know the reason that I don't recall just because I was high. I was living like a rock star was on and off medications during this period of time, and I was under the influence of substances, mental illness, stuff but he insisted, despite gaps in memory. There was one thing he knew for certain I will not kidnap my wife, he would cry and say that, loved her so much tat. He was so sorry it was that type of

manipulation tremendous regret. During the deposition, Christine pulled that are low, camel, recording in which prosecutor believe bracy in handling were caught. Talking about the plot to kidnap shown, the wife handling claimed he loved so much. I q dab where one at the kidnappers was too, Michael and you know if she gets out align our won't hesitated killer. And I said what kind of movers tell that to you and his fear was palpable, and he said. Oh, I don't know Christine people tell me all sorts of things. My go hand. withered under questioning poking holes in his own defence, with his own words. These

turnings provided us with those deposition transcript shortly after receiving them and with the trial date fast approaching, Michael's defence attorney feared the worst we We of the opinion that he ran a significant risk of a conviction with the walls closing in an hours before the tree. was set to start Michael hands indicated he was open to a deal. He would played in her second degree kidnapping the minimum sentence. Fifteen years. The maximum sentence would be thirty, five years prosecutors, Donnie connect and kitty. Aber say there was a lot to take into consideration the problem with a jury trial, as you too almost never know, but also knew that there on a hamley. There's isabella you ve got victims that have to remove them, if you go to trial, ultimately the decision to take the deal or go to trial was jaundice So scared that if we

to trial that it could work out beautifully for him because Michael all lands on his feet once Michael's out, I'm no longer free war the evidence photos at forty eight hours dot com the in July, twenty twenty one all shown to hamley wanted was for her ex husband, Michael hanley, to stay behind bars. So she agree to accept his plea of guilty. second degree kidnapping again to take any risks? I would rather depleted plea. Take the chance and go to trial, less than a year later on march, twenty. Fourth, thousand twenty two chonta was in the courtroom to find out what

michael sentence, would be isabella. Was there too? as was Michael. What was it like to come face to face with him in it was so surreal. You know- and I think honestly, for both of us. It was this really strong, powerful emotion that we both felt but mine, hatred, hoping to help convinced the judge to give Michael the maximum sentence. Isabella chose to give a victim impact statement, What did you say at the hearing? I really kind of told a story. how difficult it really made my life and how difficult it still makes my life, because I didn't think he knew that it affected me as well as ineffective Her shoulder also had something she wanted to say to Michael. I told him that he racked everything and then

destroyed everything. And how could you like? We had like a really. We had a good life, we had a good family and we we adored each other. He was the person I most admired in this world. Until then, do you, like Michael understands his actions, have had an effect on his former wife and step child? I think that he does you get this. the guy sorry, I think so I think he's capable of remorse. Yet when it was Michael's turn to speak instead of tearful apology. He gave yet another new story this time he admit he did in fact higher the two men to kidnap shoulda cleaned. It was all fake and stage. That he could swoop in save her and be the hero. What he really wanted to do.

who was emerges: the white knight who came in and rescued her. It was a way for him to try to win her back, but he'd never really intended to her. It was all a big game, In the end, the judge sided with the prosecution and gave Michael hanley the maximum penalty. oh, I see a man was sentenced today in the two thousand. Seventeen kidnapping case serve his estranged wife lawrence Michael hand and received a thirty five years in prison for the quiet. Thirty five years, minus five time served lets him out when he seventy nine, firmer, nine or yorker with them. I, rather he never get out Are you still afraid, even with him behind bars, oh yeah, That concern is something isabella shares. Do you fear for your safety from Michael hamley yeah? I do nothing

could stop him. I just see him as a villain, not a good person, and I'm not sad about in my mind, he's changed to a completely different person, so it doesn't feel like I've lost my dad. It feels like a lost a stranger, They now twenty year old college junior chooses to focus on that valuable lesson. Did she from her mother, it's so. powerful, see how my mom handled situation. She show me how she overcome something so horrible and turn it into something great and become an even better. person out of it. Well welcome to our having some land You're here chonta has found renewed purpose working with others like her. She sold property, took out alone and open to sober living homes dedicated to helping women get back on their feet. Why should it be about twenty five this

safe place where you can start a new. It's been really rewarding- and you know from my experiences that I've had the challenges that I've had. I'm able to show them first hand that we get up. We can go when we put one foot in front of the other and we will persevere, an important part of moving forward for shorter, has been recognising those who stood by and while she did speak on the phone with chad mark that office. who's. She never got that. and to thank him in person. Until now, when we arranged for them to me, so good to me. You see again yeah I'm looking at you to see. If I can remember, I remember, I am glad that I was in the right place the right time now, really glad. Thank you.

you like. I owe you everything. I guess my greatest gratitude and you say my life is that my daughter gets to have more money. and have a guideline. Thank you giving the bag The oh, disappears just ammunition. What was her husband contacting spell castors robots? Can you tax to have our hard enough? Maybe an accident or broken bones defect mile, if that house, on around no forty eight hours, saturday CBS

hey, prime member, as you can listen to the forty eight hours per gas ad free on amazon music download the amazon music ab today or you can listen ad free with wondering, plus an apple pie. Gas before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondering dog com, sledge survey,